Never saddle a dead horse

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  • Опубліковано 30 січ 2025

КОМЕНТАРІ • 427

  • @rustygardhouse7895
    @rustygardhouse7895 Місяць тому +89

    Swages are very strong. I was a logger and ran skidders. All the eyes and bell knobs for the chokers were swaged. Pulling on a 9/16" choker with a Clarke 666 at full chat is a mighty load. Never lost a choker but I did have my 7/16"mainline snap and wrap around the ROPS cage. That was a brown alert moment.

    • @doonhamer252
      @doonhamer252 Місяць тому +11

      Had a 3/4" let loose when while trying to pull a challenger tank that slid down into a clay pit. Took the safety cage out , and mangled the back corner post.. Defiantly brown alert...

    • @ToddAdams1234
      @ToddAdams1234 Місяць тому +4

      I’ve had 200lbs(ish) of hardware sliding directly at my position all along the ground starting at a measured 90yds away from my position because I had a 3/8” log chain break pulling on a log that was just a “leetle” to well in place (I WANTED it to move) and THAT was a brand new chain. I’m more certain about the logs moving now because it was very surreal watching the rigging sliding all that way yet still sliding under my rig with the winch but directly between the tires until it hit the tree that was my anchor. VERY wild day with Dad. No one was hurt and we were able to joke about that one because of the learning experience that we BOTH just experienced (he witnessed it as well).

    • @orbitingeyes2540
      @orbitingeyes2540 Місяць тому +4

      Unconstrained snapping cables can really REALLY ruin your day. 😮 Glad you had a cage for protection!

    • @doonhamer252
      @doonhamer252 Місяць тому

      @@rustygardhouse7895 me too, and placer miner..

    • @ziggs69
      @ziggs69 8 днів тому

      Haha brown alert... double check everything starting w your pants?

  • @kgraydakota
    @kgraydakota Місяць тому +84

    50 years ago I read " never saddle a dead horse" in a McMaster- Carr catalog. That saying has stuck with me all these years.

    • @ZincOxideGinger
      @ZincOxideGinger Місяць тому +5

      I miss being able to get the actual catalogs.

    • @kgraydakota
      @kgraydakota Місяць тому

      @@ZincOxideGinger Same here, but I still do business with them. Their catalog is online.

  • @codymoncrief8478
    @codymoncrief8478 Місяць тому +63

    Cable works best when all strands are equally tensioned. When the cable begins to slip or pull out from a swage/clamp, the force becomes unevenly concentrated on the strands that move the least (usually those most in contact with the material of the clamping member. As individual strands are overloaded by the concentrated forces, they begin to reach their tensile limit and break, causing the force on the now fewer remaining strands to rise. This creates a very rapid "zipper effect" across the cable, starting with the highest-tensioned strands.
    The importance of multiple crimps on the swages, or multiple cable clamps, is that they serve to spread the friction load across all strands of the cable, as the increased clamping force increases friction on the inner strands of the cable, which are the first ones to attempt to slide out of the connection when the cable is loaded. When this internal friction is achieved to a great enough extent, the cable can effectively carry tension as one member and the stress concentration is negated. The outer strands are subject to greater friction (and usually mechanical interlock to some extent) due to their embedment into the material of the swage, or the textured surface of the saddle, so they tend to 'slip last and snap first.' Sufficient clamping force ensures even tension loading of all strands, and allows them to carry a greater load, as the overall individual strand tension is more averaged across the strands.
    Exactly like the effect if a proper back-splice, the whole "machine function" of these clamps is to simply spread out the forces evenly across the fibers.

  • @bonzey1171
    @bonzey1171 Місяць тому +84

    This channel is so useful for riggers. Thank you for your work😊

    • @NatVirgo
      @NatVirgo Місяць тому +4

      NOT HOW I READ IT 😂

    • @chyza2012
      @chyza2012 Місяць тому

      @@NatVirgo rigger is our word but you can say rigga

    • @amosbackstrom5366
      @amosbackstrom5366 15 днів тому +1

      ​@@NatVirgo Had the same double take, and I'm a crane operator

  • @brianainslie754
    @brianainslie754 Місяць тому +57

    No thimbles? Eyes without thimbles? Love the test to failure of wire rope. Also no mention of go no-go gauges? Wire rope has a long history from aircraft to bell labs. Thanks for delving into the miracle that is wire rope. Rigging is a magical and underapreciateed science that powers the world.

    • @SegoMan
      @SegoMan Місяць тому +1

      For 4x4 winching I do a thimble eye into a single chain link then clevis hook onto that.

  • @arunscott4623
    @arunscott4623 Місяць тому +151

    We use the Flemish eye at work all the time, would like to see that tested with and without a cable clamp to hold the tail

    • @bradmcconnochie3204
      @bradmcconnochie3204 Місяць тому +16

      Is a Flemish eye the same as a tug boat splice? Unlay half the strands then relay to make the eye?
      Either way, plus one for testing

    • @treavorwhitlock5606
      @treavorwhitlock5606 Місяць тому +4

      They should be about 60 percent the overall strength of the cable according to the cable and rigging manufacturer Hercules wire rope. But who knows how old that test is? I would love to see that video as well. Flemish eye/farmers eye/ molly Hogan pull test

    • @cornfusedatbest3980
      @cornfusedatbest3980 Місяць тому

      ​@@bradmcconnochie3204 SCIENCE!!!

    • @onowilks
      @onowilks Місяць тому +4

      @@treavorwhitlock5606im sure rated at 60% for safety standards , but the break test scale won’t lie with a true number

    • @gn4720
      @gn4720 Місяць тому +4

      We used to call them a Molly Hogan.

  • @markfeldman4802
    @markfeldman4802 Місяць тому +19

    Hi Bobby! I am a CCM in Southeastern Wisconsin. Our small conglomerate of course managers like to say "bolts for life" when installing and inspecting guy wires. Of course meaning bolts on the live end of the wire rope.

  • @cameronhuber8339
    @cameronhuber8339 Місяць тому +9

    Thanks I spent a lot of time rigging swing stages and safety cables. NOBODY ever taught me this because nobody even knew about this. I saw it on Facebook and everyone who questioned what it meant would get the reply "never saddle a dead horse". Completely unhelpful and eventually I just googled it and figured it out but yeah more people should understand this

  • @beefsupreme3083
    @beefsupreme3083 Місяць тому +6

    You guys and the Torque Test Channel are 2 of my favorite channels! Thanks for what you do

    • @alexdrockhound9497
      @alexdrockhound9497 Місяць тому +3

      Theres also project farm and AvE. And a special shout out to This Old Tony.

  • @shorttimer874
    @shorttimer874 Місяць тому +21

    When I was in the towing industry in the Seventies we did not always have the opportunity to get the cables swagged, but the state inspectors allowed us to use the clips as long as we used three to a cable and separated from each other by some distance I no longer remember. We abused the hell out those cables, running them until the front end of the truck was up in the air and the winches stalled out. As long as you did not mess up the clamps by running them up into the pulley at the end of the boom for us they worked as well as the swagged ones.

    • @74KU
      @74KU 17 днів тому +1

      Seen more than 1 4wd winch repaired with these in the field (2 was preferred but on an occasion or 2 somebody tried 1) and still go on to do vehicle recovery with 12,000lb rated winches no worries.

  • @ivicamilosavljevic4706
    @ivicamilosavljevic4706 Місяць тому +37

    I was learned by experienced operators to rotate clips... "one live horse, then one at dead horse and one at the live horse" ... also, witnessed more than once, experienced workers, that know how to "unrotate - spread" the cable, make an "eye" and reassemble all parts/strings without any clips, connectors, crimps, etc. just cable, interconnected on his own (like a female hair), that hold it self by friction... (English is not my native language - regards from Serbia) .

    • @RaspK
      @RaspK Місяць тому +4

      It's called splicing, when you unwind the strands and rewind them; splicing allows both forming an eye, as well as connecting different lengths of rope.

    • @natew.-victoryorvalhalla4571
      @natew.-victoryorvalhalla4571 29 днів тому +1

      It's called a weaving slice connection. I used to use them all the time when I was President of a 4-wheel drive off-roaders club.
      They were VERY effective.

    • @WhoStoleMyAlias
      @WhoStoleMyAlias 17 днів тому +1

      The swages and clips work by friction as well. The difference with regard to splicing is that with crimping the strength is determined by the force applied when making the join whereas with splicing the strength is determined by the cable itself as every single strand takes part of the load and the best part is that the harder you pull, the tighter and thus stronger the connection becomes. Eye splices in ropes are also used to secure cruise ships to the quay, that's how strong these are.

    • @sleazybtd
      @sleazybtd 13 днів тому +1

      Those people rotating the clips have no idea what they are doing. The manufacturers tell you not to saddle a dead horse because they actually test their equipment and have data to show which way works best. The "experienced" people have no idea. They could be damaging the cables and not know it. Just like in the video, doing it the right way, gives it 14,000 pounds of force, while doing it the wrong way still works, but only gives it 9,000 pounds of force. How would people using it outdoors know if it broke at 14,000 pounds or 9,000 pounds?

    • @randymelious7848
      @randymelious7848 4 дні тому +1

      BINGO...I have been splicing cables endless for 50 years and making a loop by backsplicing is pretty much foolproof.

  • @gyssedk
    @gyssedk Місяць тому +148

    You should really do a collab with smarter every day.
    There is a lot of science in what you do, and with his borderline fetisch for snatch blocks, I am sure he will be all juiced up with the rest of your gear. And he also has access to slowmo gear.

    • @JustinVodden
      @JustinVodden Місяць тому +7

      borderline? its full fledged

    • @TheMetalButcher
      @TheMetalButcher Місяць тому +12

      Not just access. Destin owns the camera. The slowmo guys borrow it *from Destin* when they are in the states.

    • @adamreynolds3863
      @adamreynolds3863 Місяць тому +2

      This is right up Destins alley!

    • @Warriorcat49
      @Warriorcat49 Місяць тому +10

      @@JustinVodden
      It's borderline only because laminar flow takes his #1 position lmao

    • @hateferlife
      @hateferlife Місяць тому +1

      @@Warriorcat49 I agree with this opinion.

  • @jjonsolomon
    @jjonsolomon Місяць тому +14

    Well, you've explained my experience with my permanently installed hammocks. I have done almost everything you said not to do and dropped myself onto the dirt in a lot of different ways.
    Now I do better

  • @Dane-bootsNcatsN
    @Dane-bootsNcatsN Місяць тому +9

    This is probably the most useful video I've found for my career as an ironworker

    • @corail53
      @corail53 Місяць тому +1

      Shouldn't this have been taught to you when you were learning the trade? The industry has done these tests so many times over to get the ratings, build the instructions etc, this should be common knowledge for those in the trades and codified.

    • @swayback7375
      @swayback7375 Місяць тому

      @@corail53lol… how extensive do you think his training has been?
      Not to disparage anyone, but I’m guessing it varies a lot but can be very low… in many trades on the job training, hands on experience is the real training.

  • @jerrysanchez5453
    @jerrysanchez5453 Місяць тому +2

    I love this channel. Nothing better than proving something instead of just trusting it

  • @sobertillnoon
    @sobertillnoon Місяць тому +11

    Hi Bobby! It has been so long! I'm glad to see you again in a video.

  • @harlanstockman5703
    @harlanstockman5703 Місяць тому +8

    I am VERY glad you did this. I have used the u connectors, always watch the saddle orientation, but found no real tests on-line. Edit: I'd especially like to see a test of the "farmer" fast eye, where they sort-of splice the unlaid strands back into the live strand.

    • @harlanstockman5703
      @harlanstockman5703 Місяць тому +1

      Flemish and farmer's eye are same... please test! It would give me more confidence if a could get 100% strength from this with just one cable clamp.

  • @madebyducks
    @madebyducks Місяць тому +71

    I cant remember what it is called, hand splice? Flemish eye? Where you unwind the strands and make a loop without using a sleeve and crimp. Super curious how strong they are.

    • @teardowndan5364
      @teardowndan5364 Місяць тому +8

      The four common eye splices should give you ~90% of the original cable's strength when done correctly. Makes cable clamps sound like a bad idea for anything besides holding the tail of a quick-and-dirty hand splice in place so it doesn't just flail around. The differences are mostly about finish and effort.

    • @corythomas4427
      @corythomas4427 Місяць тому +5

      It's how ski lifts, high voltage transmission lines, and sometimes mooring lines are done. I'm sure some of that has to do with not needing additional supplies though. Kinda hard to run to Home Depot in those situations.

    • @2centsam927
      @2centsam927 Місяць тому +4

      A Molly Hogan

    • @clayed3311
      @clayed3311 Місяць тому +3

      Flemish twist

    • @edwardfinn4141
      @edwardfinn4141 Місяць тому +2

      Farmers splice.
      100%

  • @allthings2allmen
    @allthings2allmen Місяць тому

    This makes me really appreciate crews that set up cable for tight rope walkers like Nik Wallenda. His whole family had to be extremely knowledgeable on all of this too!

  •  Місяць тому +1

    When I worked offshore back in the early 80's and used to off and on run Gallion cranes and sling loads we had a bunch of different ways to make cable ends.. I have woven the tail back into the live end then clamped that, used joiner sleeves which are a thin version of those crimps and clamped that, done figure 8 where the tail is looped back on itself and the 3 pieces are all clamped together.. We sometimes would get slings made by Haliburton that had steel crimps that were forged and compressed onto the cables.. We also used cable eye shoes that prevented direct cable to hook contact from time to time on slings that were in constant use.. Ends that had hooks or lengths of chain or 3 to 4 cables attached to a bull ring.. Every customer's crew boss had their way so I had quite a variety in the tool room..

  • @georgealikin8757
    @georgealikin8757 Місяць тому +1

    Love this. Nice work guys. Would love to see the test with thimbles installed as well.

  • @alanschindler3067
    @alanschindler3067 Місяць тому +10

    Can you try fist grip type wire rope clamps, as both sides have "saddles", and see how those compare to the result from this test?

  • @thekinginyellow1744
    @thekinginyellow1744 Місяць тому +3

    I've never heard of the phrase "never saddle a dead horse". Comes from being self taught, I suppose. Fortunately all I've ever done with with cables and clips is low risk stuff in fencing applications. Failure is annoying, but zero possibility of anyone getting hurt. I learned something new today. Thank you for that.

  • @timmo42
    @timmo42 Місяць тому +6

    I would have liked to have seen spliced eyes also. A simple back splice with an unburied tail and a fully buried and interwoven splice.

  • @pitkinweldingfabrication7573
    @pitkinweldingfabrication7573 8 днів тому

    I love that you tried cables. With how popular the soft shackles have become... it would be super cool if you tried to make a soft shackle out of metal cable... ball at one end, bigger loop at the other then have a secondary piece that fills the hole so the ball end does not come out (non structural wedge type thing)...

  • @joshb693
    @joshb693 Місяць тому +4

    Bobby is back!! Wooo!

  • @unknown-ql1fk
    @unknown-ql1fk Місяць тому +12

    Merry Christmas all. Honestly ive heard the "never saddle a dead horse" for years and literally always thought the saddle was the problem, not the u bolt. Guess an old dog can learn new tricks

    • @kdawson020279
      @kdawson020279 Місяць тому +2

      Makes sense upon reflection, definitely not intuitive. Then again, I watch this channel because failure modes aren't always intuitive and myths are more popular than truths far too often.

  • @napalmholocaust9093
    @napalmholocaust9093 Місяць тому +3

    High strength cable connections are a cone that splays the individual strands and a low enough temperature alloy that doesn't weaken the steel is poured inside.

    • @banffdigger
      @banffdigger Місяць тому

      There is also an epoxy product that replaces the alloy rated to the same strength.

    • @HubertofLiege
      @HubertofLiege Місяць тому

      Babbit

  • @DavidWlodarski
    @DavidWlodarski Місяць тому +2

    Great job! What doing these experiments using a thimble in the loops?

  • @myself248
    @myself248 Місяць тому +1

    Won't the aluminum corrode things? If you want to do a followup, make up a bunch of test samples, leave them out in the rain for a few months, then test again. Use the aluminum swages, try to damage the zinc coating on a couple of the copper swages, maybe wire-wheel off the galvanized coating on some of the wire rope, and combine all those intermetallic nightmares into various test samples prior to aging. For bonus points, spritz with a bit of salt water once in a while to simulate a coastal environment.
    That being said, this was super interesting, thank you for putting it together! I had never heard about saddling a dead horse, so now I gotta go check the self-recovery supplies in my car's trunk...

    • @SegoMan
      @SegoMan Місяць тому +1

      In the snow states the de-icer will set up galvanic corrosion on trailers with AL skin and galvanized pickets.

  • @TheUncleRuckus
    @TheUncleRuckus Місяць тому

    You know it's gonna be a good video when Bobby shows up! 👍👍
    NGL a Torque Test Channel & HowNOT2 collab would be awesome!

  • @lanarkwanderer
    @lanarkwanderer 29 днів тому

    Very interesting testing. I’ve done rigging on smallish sailboats with 1x19 stainless steel wire, using a hand swagger, a thimble, two copper ferrules, 3 crimps each, the last one has two diameters of cable proud, covered with heat shrink to protect hands, sails, lines.
    Very dependable, I’ve never heard of a failure if the swage passed a no go gauge.

  • @cecilkarney9311
    @cecilkarney9311 Місяць тому +1

    I was told at our construction site in 1980 to not saddle a dead horse. Today is the first time I've ever heard it again , 45 years later.

  • @jerrellbevers6071
    @jerrellbevers6071 Місяць тому +3

    Loved his answer about wearing gloves, I say the same thing.

    • @stringlarson1247
      @stringlarson1247 Місяць тому

      I'm the same way. I'm in my 60s and rarely wear gloves. Younger guys tend to wear gloves for everything. Us geezers just didn't have a lot of good choices when we were young. For me, it's a matter of feel and/or dexterity when using tools.

  • @louisesamchapman6428
    @louisesamchapman6428 Місяць тому +2

    Some U Bolts come with a second saddle on top to provide even clamping without those stress points .

  • @ehsnils
    @ehsnils Місяць тому

    Definitely good to call out the Slo Mo Guys. Their work provides some nice revelations.
    My usage is limited to using the clips for ham radio antenna cables where the load is light compared to the strength of the cable and for those cases it could even be good if the clip gives rather than the anchor point. Think of a tree falling on the antenna cable - better to just redo the joint than to have to look for the roof of the house in your swimming pool.

  • @richardbanks2669
    @richardbanks2669 Місяць тому +1

    I'm really curious about applying an aluminium crimp to a steel cable - my gut reaction is that's a terrible idea, because of electrolytic reaction between dissimilar metals (and, worse, out of sight !) - do you have any testing of what an aluminium crimped steel cable looks like after extended time exposed to the elements? Obviously stainless corrodes much slower, in its own way, but i'd love to see some tests, or a splice cut open to examine the inside of the joint. Maybe it's not an issue at all, I'd hope not 🙂

  • @Skauber
    @Skauber Місяць тому +9

    When I worked with elevators, we always used wedge type sockets for termination of the steel cables (not sure what the correct English term is, but its what google came up with). They were designed to be the strongest link, far exceeding the cable strength giving a reliable and strong connection, less special equipment needed, and less chances for a "bad termination" which leads to a weak joint. Would be interesting to see how those hold up against crimps.

    • @kentfletcher8539
      @kentfletcher8539 Місяць тому +2

      Swagelok is the brand name of one such system, it uses a conical wedge. Quite frequently found in sailboat rigging.

    • @oldironguy
      @oldironguy 19 днів тому

      Socket and wedge

  • @NorthWoodsDiver
    @NorthWoodsDiver Місяць тому +1

    I worked in a job that made us use 3 of the u-bolt type per connection except the middle one was always "saddling the dead horse". We never used a torque wrench and it it was much smaller cable in marine environments, not used for overhead lifting or for supporting people.

  • @lasersight70
    @lasersight70 Місяць тому

    Great vid! one critique on your rigging is for your double swaging sleeve; the current "spec" is a gap of double your cables diameter at most. any more than that, and you could unevenly load the two separate strands. Outside of specific military specs, this double sleeve is no longer recommended (so far as my industrial rigging career would suggest) other than that, your video demonstrates a lot of the theories taught in my field, so thanks for that! (Nicopress has a lot of interesting documentation, and has done quite a bit of destructive testing if you have any interest)

  • @oceanaxim
    @oceanaxim Місяць тому +1

    I have always followed the industry standards and regulations for safety, but I think it is fascinating to see the eye terminations tested to failure. (Especially the swaged terminations! I have re-done a few because it didn't look EXACTLY as it did in the manual and trying to get those frayed ends buried so they didn't snag on anything). MORE DATA PLEASE!

  • @TheAruruu
    @TheAruruu Місяць тому +4

    i'd be REALLY interested to see what a rebraid would do for strenght. (where you untwist the end and re-twist it into the rope further down, forming an eye)

  • @ndube21005
    @ndube21005 Місяць тому

    Great to see Bobby again!

  • @cd4683
    @cd4683 Місяць тому

    The rotational movement was interesting to watch in slow motion. I didn't think it would twist like it does inside the crimps.

  • @CotiThompson
    @CotiThompson Місяць тому +1

    I was strapping down a set of steps with a ground anchor and some steel cable when a customer told me never saddle a dead horse. He said he was an engineer. I have never forgot that.

    • @SegoMan
      @SegoMan Місяць тому

      I have seen commercial zip lines improperly rigged and no one wants to listen to the truth..

  • @northmanlogging2769
    @northmanlogging2769 Місяць тому +9

    for funsies, a "flemish" eye splice, or "farmers eye" even without swages or clamps should be as strong as the original rope, its also the easiest splice in the world to make... for safety sake swage or clamp the dead ends to keep them from unraveling.
    I've also seen folks just splice the dead end straight through the live side one time... which looks scary as S but holds better then ya might think... (for safeties sake I wouldn't use this in a life support way, though the Flemish eye I mentioned above is commonly used for logging and heavy rigging)

    • @danbellows9529
      @danbellows9529 Місяць тому +2

      Hopped on to make this comment. I spent years doing a full eye splice for our logging skyline. Remember reading a study that said a farmers eye followed by a tuck was as strong as a full splice. It took some time to trust them for our skyline. After that I never looked back. Way faster and a helluva lot easier.

    • @northmanlogging2769
      @northmanlogging2769 Місяць тому

      @@danbellows9529 arguably, the 3 tuck "logger eye" is more resilient to abuse, i.e. dragging through sticks rocks mud etc, but it is a helluva lot more work. Couple of cable clamps on the Flemish to keep the ends secure is all you really need on it, the extra tuck weakens it, even seen some were the dead end was clamped by its self, a ferul would be the best thing, but putting a ferule on 1 1/8 rope in the bush is... unrealistic lol

  • @sheadjohn
    @sheadjohn Місяць тому +3

    What about wedges that tighten as you pull on the cable. They are used on crane tackle.

  • @Cotton088
    @Cotton088 Місяць тому +1

    Try splicing the wire. You unwind a length and flip it back on itself creating an eye. Then use a clamp or swage. Additionally, increase the size of the d-ring or clevis securing the cable eye thus reducing the bend in the eye at the clevis contact point

  • @GabrielJones
    @GabrielJones 18 днів тому

    Short cable lengths can cause severe uneven strand loading leading to the unexpected failure modes. Retest with longer lengths wrapped several times around a drum

  • @AZREDFERN
    @AZREDFERN Місяць тому +1

    I’m pretty sure there’s a standard out there where you’re supposed to use 4 saddles in a row, torqued to a very specific rating. That way they’re not crushing the cable, and it doesn’t slip, even though they’re not all as tight as a single saddle. I think they have a set distance apart, and the torque gets progressively lower the further away they’re from the loop.

    • @Olaf236
      @Olaf236 Місяць тому

      Distance between should be 6 x the diameter of the wire rope

  • @timwrich5128
    @timwrich5128 Місяць тому +2

    With the single saddle clamp I think the friction of it slipping a little bit caused damage to some of the strands which caused the catastrophic failure

  • @bjlanders
    @bjlanders Місяць тому +1

    here to see the full video, after the small result clip!

  • @trickster8635
    @trickster8635 Місяць тому

    The U clamps have been around as long as SWR and if you research Army recovery data you will find minimum four clamps to equal safe working load of the SWR. Plus, they can be visually inspected in the field and replaced if required, not so with modern swage.

  • @thomasmackey6760
    @thomasmackey6760 Місяць тому

    In the mid 90s i was building challenge course based on date and methods based on the testing and methods of a guy named Chuck Klineschuck. It was great to have tested data, I really enjoyed watching some bench testing of those methods. I would love to see some testing on oval eyes and thimble eye bolts with 3/8 9X17 GAC with loaded drape

  • @kwebmail2007
    @kwebmail2007 Місяць тому +1

    Very interesting! I'm a total amateur but about 12 yrs ago I built a 180ft zipline in the backyard, using 3/16" SS cable and the screw-down U-clips. I have to say they looked small but I used 3 and spaced them about a 12" apart on the tail of the line, connected to a chain around the tree with a bolt and using a thimble. IIRC the "weakest" component was the biggest turnbuckle I could find and a WLL of around 1100lbs. No problems in the 10 yrs it was used but last year I had a 70ft tree fall across the line and break it, it snapped the cable at the far end at a midpoint spot between the thimble and the most distal U-clip. This tree was massive and although it destroyed the zipline, it did confirm my build and assembly assumptions.

  • @JaredTwomey
    @JaredTwomey Місяць тому

    We use tree-grips or dead ends that wrap around the steel cable. It would be interesting to see if those would stronger than a clamp

  • @BushCampingTools
    @BushCampingTools 13 годин тому

    It would be good to see how such swages do over time after being exposed to the weather, especially rain as there must be some galvanic action happening between the Al swage and the ferrous wire rope. I mean swages are super strong how many times do people use them caving, lot's or at least me and my friends did, LOL and where does one retire them to? LOL, the house of course hanging up very heavy pot plants from the ceilings LOL!

  • @kjchaifisch
    @kjchaifisch Місяць тому +2

    Happy Holidays Bobby and Ryan!🎄

  • @yboc300000lol
    @yboc300000lol Місяць тому

    Excited to see y’all do some zipline/challenge corse testing. Y’all should test fist grips to see how they compare

  • @andyfields3248
    @andyfields3248 Місяць тому +2

    In the towing industry and crane industry we brade the ends back so some strands are going each direction around the eye. Then install a crush sleeve to terminate the dead end. It isn't hard to do (gloves highly recommend) and results in an eye termination that is stronger than the line . . . They say 100% but in 40 years I've never seen the eye fail even with too small of pin in the eye, always brakes between the eyes so its over 100%.

  • @Devilpeakmotorsports
    @Devilpeakmotorsports Місяць тому

    I would be interested in seeing the difference between the regular lay wire rope used in this video and a lang lay rope. The lay refers to how the individual wires are oriented. A regular lay rope has these wires parallel to the the rope length while with a lang lay they are at an angle.

  • @dksaevs
    @dksaevs Місяць тому +1

    I realize the crimping the wire rope/cable is faster than what I'm going to ask. HOW strong would a pulling eye that is weaved into the cable vs crimping? When I worked with our company's rigging crew as a welder, the old timers showed me how to weave splices and pulling eyes. After some practice I could weave an eye in 40 minutes and that was about 18" long. Any of the rigging crew could do it in 10 to 15 minutes. Just need a vice and a FID, Needle, spud (I forget what it's called).

  • @ohanailo7743
    @ohanailo7743 29 днів тому

    Seen more crimp failures that almost cost a man his life from a, 5-ton load, breaking free from the the wire rope slings.
    The crimps were of steel and had certified tags upon it. The certified rated tags showed a greater working load value, than we were actually lifting. Upon examination of the crimps and wire slings, there appeared to be no damage to the wire rope itself or the sling ends at all. Further examination appeared to be the crimp was not fully engaging the wire rope and had just slipped out of the steel crimp. What was more disturbing to the working crew, was that the wire rope sling was brand new and delivered that day of failure, and was used by experienced crews for a few lifts and then the failure occured, with the live load just missing a crew member by feet, when it landed on the ground.

  • @herranenspearguns
    @herranenspearguns Місяць тому

    For spearfishing we use 1/16 7x7 ss cable and we backsplice the eye and then crimp the tail to the line . Ive never had one break at the eye or crimp in use on big tuna and grouper. Its always some mid line abrasion that breaks it

  • @johnsimms818
    @johnsimms818 20 днів тому +2

    Ironworker over 50 years one of the lessons in rigging class never saddle a dead horse second lesson which part was the saddle 😅

  • @lapoguslapogus7161
    @lapoguslapogus7161 Місяць тому

    I have set up various steel cables for non-commercial use, (hauling loads up very steep and rough terrain) and use U-clips (we call them u-bolts here in UK). I don't torque the bolts nearly as much as that as I don't think it's good to crush/deform the cables, or risk threading the nuts/bolts. But I always use three u-clips per loop, as at least in theory, three is 50% stronger than two. This way if there is failure it's more likely to be a more gentle slippage rather than a catastrophic break.

  • @badgermetal
    @badgermetal Місяць тому

    My coworker just asked me the other day where he could get those cable clamp things for a 1/4" winch line that started to fray at the original crimp. They were using it to demo a building and lift heavy pipes in sketchy spots, sometimes overhead. I told him to go find our tools and crimp it properly.
    After this video it probably could have worked out fine either way but there is the human factor of not torquing the nuts correctly.

  • @QuiznosBear
    @QuiznosBear Місяць тому +2

    Hey, testing recommendation/request - helmet impact (possibly including ski/snowboard helmets vs mountaineering)?

  • @ChrisSBF-cr6og
    @ChrisSBF-cr6og Місяць тому

    The title was burned in my memory by my father when learning how to install 7/8 wire rope many moons ago and I still use the saying when I’m showing how to replace rolloff cable to a rookie.

  • @JimNigro
    @JimNigro Місяць тому

    Greetings, I watch you channel regularly. I'm curious about the latest video testing saddle clamps and swages. It would be great to see how Crosby Fist Grip stack up with other clamps. How about another video comparing Fist Grips and Saddle Clamps. Cheers

    • @HowNOT2
      @HowNOT2  Місяць тому

      Had to cut those tests from the plan for this video due to time and complexity, but it would be fun to test those in a future video. We use those clamps regularly even though the price increased a lot recently.

  • @HeaanLasai
    @HeaanLasai Місяць тому

    There's a bridge in Sweden where they used wire rope clips. And they installed half of them wrong way, saddle on the unloaded part. The orientation is random, so it's not some intentional thing. But the issue doesn't seem to be that the steel cables got damaged by the installation. Instead, the steel cable has started slipping out of the clamps.
    I've tried contacting the authorities, but they simply defer the re-inspection to a subsidiary the same guys who built the bride, who, unsurprisingly, say that it's perfectly safe even though cables are literally slipping out of their fasteners. Their argument is that because it's a walking bridge, it won't see the same loads as a road bridge. But since it was only built to spec for handling walking bridge loads, the loads will still be exceeded when enough of the cables have slipped out.

  • @jamesbarca7229
    @jamesbarca7229 Місяць тому

    I prefer to use fist grips. They apply even pressure to both sides of the wire rope, so they hold more securely. And they don't distort/damage the cable. When used properly, after removal you can't tell where the clamps were applied. It would be interesting to see you test them compared to standard cable clamps.

  • @Syncrusan
    @Syncrusan Місяць тому

    As a specialist in this industry in australia my best recommendation would be to look into the standards.
    ANSI, DIN, ISO and even AS/NZS
    AS1666 States that IWRC, WRC or FC all have different ferrule press loads (often near 200t) and all require measurements for the pressed ferrule length thickness and excess tail.
    All this is dependent on the ferrule material (Aluminium, Copper or Steel)
    All Dies used for pressing must not leave any ribbing on the ferrule such as here and no skirting/flare.
    In regards to the wire rope grips. Its not only a good rule of thumb bit are also included in the standards.
    There are productes out there that have the option for the U Bolts on both sides.
    Please speak with a dedicated specialist for more information in NA as all standards are different.

  • @PhillipMoore-vj6cc
    @PhillipMoore-vj6cc 16 днів тому

    Very interresting, could you do a cable splice, vs flemish eye, swages, clamps, etc , video.

  • @stevejohnson9340
    @stevejohnson9340 Місяць тому +1

    For years in the oil field we saddled the wire clamps back to back.

  • @Jimthechevywheelman
    @Jimthechevywheelman Місяць тому

    Back in the early 80’s got in the elevator construction trade in Houston, must’ve heard that phrase 1000 times, and I probably used it 500. I miss those good times ; had a lot of fun at work for four years , till work got slack ,, moved else where n got into the maintenance/troubleshooting end of the trade.
    Also ‘ heard : ‘cut off twice it’s still too short ‘ a lot (basic carpentry, saying: measure twice cut once- sorta paraphrase)

  • @lanedexter6303
    @lanedexter6303 Місяць тому

    Interesting. I’d have like to have seen a test with three Crosby clips at a bit less torque/deformation. Good video.👍

  • @chuckthebull
    @chuckthebull Місяць тому

    I have done the clamps because they are easy with a wrench in tight spaces. (Used in an attic space) and I'm confident in them ..but enjoying these tests.. thanks

  • @jajajaja8945
    @jajajaja8945 22 дні тому

    Great video guys. Would love to see turnbacks with under torqued clamps pulled to failure. What torque does it slip at during typical max service loads?

  • @timward4301
    @timward4301 Місяць тому

    We use smaller swages in hang glider construction. But generally we use a thimble on every eye, and a go/no-go gauge to validate the crimp is in specification.

  • @chrispappas8447
    @chrispappas8447 Місяць тому

    Super interesting and informative! Good to see you Bobby!

  • @jeffjohnsisland5551
    @jeffjohnsisland5551 Місяць тому

    I think it would be interesting to test double saddle wire clamps. I use them for a small zip line because its eaiser to install them correctly, and when I move the zip line, the cable is in better condition.

  • @mirandahotspring4019
    @mirandahotspring4019 Місяць тому +1

    As an ex tutor at a polytechnic where we taught scaffolding, rigging, and industrial rope access, this was not really that surprising.
    In rigging in adventure playgrounds, high rope courses etc I found the biggest failure point, especially on wire rope ladders, was a millimetre or so just inside where the rope exits a swage. This is where the rope stops being flexible and stresses build up causing individual wires to fail. The only way to check them is to flex the rope there and see if any strands are broken, but the problem is whenever you flex it to check you're adding to the problem!
    Bulldog clips are the way to go, much easier to check for broken strands, and of course allow for ropes to be retightened as they stretch a bit in use.
    You can now also get double saddle clips now.

  • @ThePirateGod
    @ThePirateGod 22 дні тому

    I want to see the standard cable wrap vs a Flemish eye. Both with swages and cable clamps. I'm a crane operator and use these things daily. Only brand of hardware we trust is Crosby for cable clamps check them out they're way better.

  • @armageddonready4071
    @armageddonready4071 Місяць тому

    It’s nice to see stuff break, but an overlay view of the pressure being applied while it fails would be helpful to those of us that like numbers and stuff.

  • @Gunbudder
    @Gunbudder Місяць тому +2

    4:50 you used the torque wrench just fine lol. pretty much all torque wrenches of that style requires gripping anywhere on the knurled handle to get the correct torque value. and really really tiny torque wrenches will always have a clear mark where you put your finger to apply torque (but that is for like 5 inch pounds on an RF connection)

  • @littlehills
    @littlehills Місяць тому

    could you do a series of disabled climbers
    types of limits like hip replacement - wheelchair
    and ways people can help out as ground crew ect

  • @bluecollar58
    @bluecollar58 Місяць тому

    On swing stage work we used a different type of wire rope clamp. The two halves of the clamp are both saddles and identical. They each have both a stud and a hole. They interlock and we used three clamps spaced one fist apart.

    • @bc-guy852
      @bc-guy852 Місяць тому

      Can you share what they are called?

    • @bluecollar58
      @bluecollar58 Місяць тому +1

      @ , we used 3/8”, double saddle, fist grip clamps.

  • @russellzauner
    @russellzauner Місяць тому

    From my work with some Instron machines and wire fixturing for pull testing, the edge of the crimped material really matters. You know you've got something working as well as it can when you know your material is fairly linear across itself and it starts necking in the center and breaks somewhere in the middle a decent distance away from the fixturing points. Compressing metal is less wear than shearing it; the u-bolts compress with a rolled edge while crimping places either a harder edge at the crimp point or on the edge of the crimp connector itself.
    I feel like it would be it simpler and better with a mesh/net connector and a tribological/compression sleeve over it, so it doesn't wear excessively or bits of it come unraveled/stay contained. I would want to make sure that the weave is made of something temperature/dimensionally stable, like invar but something better suited to the weave - slide the mesh twin holed sleeve on the cable on one side then slide the cable in the other after making a loop (or adding a tribological loop insert as well to completely avoid wear on the cabling), loop your cable over a VERY strong hook, then use a fixed winch or puller to grab the ends of the mesh and pull it tight, like the old finger trap toy made of grass/straw but you somehow can't escape it by pulling - it only gets tighter - and you're not tying off against the cabling, you're tying off the netting that's holding the cabling so the netting can be 100% the only thing that's touching your cables. The containment sleeves that go over the cable joints are replaceable and puncture resistant. The cables are then the only thing involved in linear shocks and stresses; the meshes merely keep the ends together in a loop and the loop holds itself harder the more you yank on it 🙂

  • @FormlessDuck
    @FormlessDuck Місяць тому

    Ive been working as the director of a challenge course for several years now. im not in charge of the inspection, but I have to be familiar with the rules they check when they do inspect it. Ive always wanted to see these tested against each other

  • @scottdean4117
    @scottdean4117 Місяць тому +1

    As a power lineman we would have to braid eyes in cable every once in a while the way I was taught in twist the end strands about 18 inches or so bend them back around to form the eye then braid them back together then your eye is part of the backbone of the main cable then twist the tail together then put your Crosby on

  • @krymz1
    @krymz1 5 днів тому

    now the saying makes sense. I always wondered why someone would try to sit on a dead horse to begin with...

  • @gregolson1824
    @gregolson1824 Місяць тому

    Since it appears that having the aluminum swage reduced the strength a little, I'm guessing in the way it failed that it's because the aluminum swage is partially over crimped deforming the cable. I would suggest, since the aluminum swage is just there to hold the dead end so it does hurt anyone, that it be crimped with less force this way it doesn't pose a risk of deforming the cable underneath.

  • @stacybehrens7152
    @stacybehrens7152 Місяць тому

    I make wire harnesses professionally. Properly done crimps have an optimal cross section with no internal voids. Determining the correct crimp compression requires failure testing across assorted crimp dimensions usually by adjusting the crimp height.
    Here they are simply compressing but seemingly not optimizing the crimp. They seem to be crimping to some default tool setting which may not be optimal for the combination of hardware used. They possibly are over compressing where the crimp is the failure point. Often (not always) with a proper crimp the wire/cable will fail before the crimp.

  • @Arrows_tip
    @Arrows_tip Місяць тому

    You should try testing preform wraps.

  • @kenmercer2721
    @kenmercer2721 Місяць тому

    Interesting results! Looks like you only need a single swage , not two. To capture the splayed ends try a short length of heavy walled (black for UV resistance) plastic tubing and place it correctly before swaging. Use it on your guy wires (where you're using saddles) too. I don't like sharp stuff and the ends splaying will capture it. And how about heat shrink over the swage as it'll have sharpish edges?

  • @talon0863
    @talon0863 Місяць тому

    Thanks, I didn't know about the dead-horse-saying

  • @shred_meister
    @shred_meister Місяць тому

    Dude I been wanting to learn steel cable rigging for life support applications

  • @nswsparky
    @nswsparky Місяць тому

    In line work we use a EHS 3/8 cable. It is a very hard cable it will flatten any bi metal blade tooth. It cannot be bent super sharp it wants to be straight. We use a modern "preform" end on it it keeps everything straight and it is just wrapped around the cable no mechanical connector. I always wondered what would the failure point be in our application.

  • @jacobpoucher
    @jacobpoucher Місяць тому

    Awesome video i was taight this saying when i was probbaly 17 years old from one of my wise old mentors that is most likley no longer with us. i also catch this rule being broken constantly.