In this video, We discussone of the suggested ways to charge and discharge a hybrid battery pack of Toyota Prius Gen II. Courtesy www.venicehybridtech.com
This is very similar to the method I have recently adopted where I first deeply discharge the whole pack with light globes, then grid charge the whole pack with grid charger, then.. load the whole pack with Australian 240v 100w household globe and at exactly the 10 hour mark I quickly (with an assistant compiling the data on a spread sheet) record the voltage of each module.. Anything that dunks under 7.2v after 10 hours is considered no longer useful. It's not as thorough as messing around for weeks with hobby chargers but it's a good way to quickly nut out the duds!
@@VeniceHybridTech hi yes could definitely speed up the process with a bigger load if you like but I keep it low so the mediocre modules don't flop out towards the end of test :)
huge fan of your channel, keep up the good work.I have a Lexus rx400h 2007, it was parked for 7 or months, it was started 3 months ago and ran for 1 hour. I fully charged the auxiliary battery too, then I took the negative terminal off from auxiliary battery so that not drain the battery. it was parked for 2 months, when I connected the auxiliary battery again, it's not starting, it's saying check hybrid system. I fully charged the auxiliary battery again, connect and disconnect the battery for 10 mins both aux battery and hybrid battery fuse for 10 mins. the engine is not cranking at all, all electronic and lights etc all works fine. the hybrid battery level indicator is very low in the last 2 red level indicators. the car has only done 60000 miles,. can you tell me how can solve this issue and start the car would really appreciate it.
I have a prius 14 . How can I charge my batteries with a 337 wh renogy power pack. The unit comes on and then clicks off with the normal charging cord. I have another broken cord that I would like to modify to plug in to the power pack and the car to top off the charge on the car in he afternoon. Do you have a wiring diagram of the charging cord that can show how to modify this cord to charge off of my power pack? I want to bypass the defective circuit board.
The problem with bulk discharge and charging are not helping balance the cells and thus this method of charge-discharge will damage the units more than help them. If however all the cells/blocks are equal wear and votalge and resistance then bulk discharging /charging would help. But rarely would that be the case.
@@carlosgrande8546 Is your car regular home use or taxi cab? It makes a big difference. If it is home use you can change your batterie cells, but if it is taxi I can tell you from my experience you will need to change your hybrid battery. To find out which cell pair is bad you need a scan tool.
Carlos Grande check to make sure none of them are grounded to the frame. some times there is a leak and the bolt holding the individual battery modules gets shorted to the nut holding it to the frame. the other issues is that the internal resistance is high. test the modules under a load and see any that cant handle a load.
Very good You're the first fellow that I've seen doing at the way I wanted to do it.. but I just wanted to charge mine.. anyway what I did was put it into another gen 2 Prius and jumped from the inverter cables into the battery.. But please where did you get the grid charger for the 280 volts? Or was it 208 volts? Did you build it yourself? You're a man after my own mind.. are you from Iran?
Hello Raj, I have a 2009 Prius that appears to have a drained hybrid battery. Can I use a MAXX charger to restore it so I can start the car again? What do you recommend in that situation?
Hi Venice Hybrid tech! I have a Gen 1 version of your charger that I bought many years ago, but wanted to know if I could use it on a Gen2 or Gen3. I believe you had instructions for doing both Gen1 and Gen2 at the time...but now we have Gen 3, so I am assuming its the same as Gen 2 sine there are the same number of cells as a gen 2. I saw your Gen 3 video on charging, so is it the same, except for the voltage needing to be finished at 240v instead of 280v? thanks!
Hi Wes, yes you can definitely use the same charger to charge the Gen II and Gen III Prius. Go to my website and download the instructions and follow those. Keep an eye on the Voltmeter window and stop charging as soon as you reach the desired voltages. Good luck.
Hello Venice, Thanks for your time. I am needing to by a hybrid car but the batteries are so expensive. Do you know how to revive dead cells and refurbish batteries. I know you just showed how to charge it but I am speaking more on when the battery goes bad. Also, do you recommend a hybrid. Trying to do research before I buy.
i left my prius c parked for 6 months . now came back , got new 12v battery but the hybrid battery is totally low and the car's engine is not starting .. any chance the hybrid batteries servived ? anyother way to start the engine without a charger ? thank you
Yes in all probability, your car battery survived but has gone down. The battery will need to be charged and brought back up to a level where it can be functional. You will definitely need a charger otherwise the car will not start. You may buy another hybrid battery pack otherwise.
I have 07 Toyota Prius the hybrid battery won't go over 4 lines charge but I pull the hybrid battery then I test all the battery ceal have 7.6V all is good but won't change morthen 4 lines so what could be wrong with any idea please respond, thanks
The battery pack has lost a lot of its capacity. There may be a few ( 4-6 ) modules which are very weak and hence do not allow the pack to be fully charged. You need to replace the bad modules.
What is wrong with charging the battery with the car by puting it in drive, stepping on the brake firm and depressing the throttle to the floor until it is charged and green? Would that be a better way to charge rather than buying a fast charger?
Can I Discharge a Hybride battery by AC inverter. Which convert voltage 110 is it correct or wrong way please give your precious guidness thank you very much.
Yes you can use an inverter to discharge but make sure you feed the correct voltage to the inverter. Don't try to connect the whole pack at one go, it will burn it.
Please guys my Toyota highlander 2008 hybrid batteries are discharged due to long period of parking. What can I do, need your sincere advice. How can get the Venice high speed charger. Iam in Nigeria
No worries. You can either buy the high Speed Charger or the normal Grid Charger. Then charge or recondition your battery pack. I think just charging will work fine. Shipping will be a problem as its expensive. You should buy a Grid Charger.
I had my Nissan Altima Hybrid serviced (oil & filter) and when I got the car back there was absolutely no reading on the hybrid's battery charge gauge. When I drive the car the hybrid battery charges but at a much slower rate than normal & I can't get it more than 3/4 fully charged and it's power seems to be used up much quicker than before. Any ideas as to what happened.
Hi Lana, there are two things that come to my mind. Firstly, check the level of oil. If it is too high, then you have to get it drained and it should be at the correct level. Secondly, there are too many sensors in the hybrid system. They could have damaged a sensor, hence the problem. Another possibility is that they could have damaged some wire connected with the hybrid system. You must consult a technician.
Hello I have a 2012 Toyota Prius Hybrid that started dying while driving at lower speed, would restart it and get about a mile before it would shut off again. I did this about 3/4 times before it completely died and would not restart. I pulled out the 12 volt battery and it was at 4.2 so took it in to have it recharged. Put back in my car and the display keeps saying “ something is wrong with the hybrid system, pull over to a safe place and contact a dealer. Does this sound like it could be the hybrid battery? If so, can I try the method you used to discharge & recharge ?? I don’t have 3 k for new charger
Hi Gayle, I think the 12 V needs replacing. Just charging it is not enough. You need to get it checked from Auto Zone etc. That is the first requirement. Once that is taken care of, also check that you do have gas in the car!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you still get the warning signs, then yes the hybrid pack is the culprit. Watch my videos. I do not recommend cycling the hybrid pack.
Sir charging and discharging of my honda civic hybrid IMA 1.3 GEN 2 with individual battery sticks can it affect on battery....because my car is not used full of assist while i am driving in battery mode under 45 speed it supports me only 75%....not any code on dash everything is in perfect plzzzz suggest me sir
Pretty sure Honda Gen 2 is using niMH battery cells, that being said; your batteries are doing their job the way the battery ECU is instructing them however, niMH batteries lose their "memory" for their peak voltage. What that means is that through normal use they begin to lower their operating voltage and the ECU knows no difference. Once the resistance increases high enough, you'll get that red code for sure. Charge/discharge is a way to help them get their "memory" back
@@mauricioalvarez3 thank u sir for repl..some behaviour happen with my car batteries like backup is increased automatically...in lockdown i cant drive the car for 3 days in weak.but i take it for drive atleast in 4 days for batteries charged so that time i drove the car in full assist and discharged the batteries and again i charged them in 4km driving..after a 1month..i focus on charging and discharging battery,my car battery backup increases by 20% i cannot understand how that possible..anyways thank u sir for your long experienced guidence..thank u so much again🤝❤
Hi Flako, I think your hybrid pack is made of Li Ion cells, which are not easy to repair. In my opinion, you should look for another battery pack on EBay or in some junk yards and replace the battery pack.
3:09 on the plug that you made is it easy to know what side to use the red wire and what side to use the black wire? Thanks, I do not know much about wiring.
Hi Sean, for this plug, polarity does not matter as you are only discharging with a shop light. You can connect any wire to any point on the plug. Hope this helps.
@@VeniceHybridTech Thanks for the reply. Can I also connect one end to the other if I want to discharge the whole thing at once, connecting also 2 clips where the curcuit break is?
@@VeniceHybridTech Got it. One more thing at 3:14 I noticed the white connector you made is only two pin while the black plug is three pin. My question is can I create one with three pins so it fits perfectly or does it have to be two pin with lamp's third pin sticking out like that?
If it was me and I had a spare hybrid battery I'd be looking at discharging one into the other with a DC - DC charger, you won't catch all the energy but better than wasting it 🥱
Hi Richard, our High Speed Chargers generally take less than two hours to charge any hybrid battery pack. What battery are you thinking about or is it for a shop??????
@@richardreinhardt6976 Yes, our High Speed Charger with fixed voltage, costing $ 400 is most suitable for that job. It is designed for that purpose in mind. We use it in our place of work, all the time.
Hi Steve, we have a number of different models of chargers for different hybrid vehicles. What cat do you have and I will suggest you. All the chargers charge the whole pack at the same time.
I’ve a 2010 Prius, that is the charge I want, that I can charge my whole pack at the same time, I saw a prolong battery charge but that is really expensive and hard to find. Thank you for answering me!
Hi Steve, yes we have a charger for 2010 Prius, costing $ 300.00 and shipping is $ 15.00 but make sure your hybrid pack is not Li Ion but NiMH chemistry. Contact us at 424 227 6719.
Appreciate video content! Apologies for chiming in, I would appreciate your opinion. Have you heard the talk about - Lammywalness Trendy Trade Guide (erm, check it on google should be there)? It is a great one off product for learning how to recondition batteries at home without the headache. Ive heard some awesome things about it and my friend at last got cool results with it.
@VeniceHybridTech 3 minutes in and still nothing about working on the pack, found lots that gave me lots of info on the pack and how to work on it in under 3 minutes. Use your time wisely and watch your subs grow. Info is much more attractive than rambling
This is very similar to the method I have recently adopted where I first deeply discharge the whole pack with light globes, then grid charge the whole pack with grid charger, then.. load the whole pack with Australian 240v 100w household globe and at exactly the 10 hour mark I quickly (with an assistant compiling the data on a spread sheet) record the voltage of each module.. Anything that dunks under 7.2v after 10 hours is considered no longer useful. It's not as thorough as messing around for weeks with hobby chargers but it's a good way to quickly nut out the duds!
Hi, can u plz specify what is "grid charge" the whole pack u used?
@@ALAL-jm1lr hi AL.. You can buy what is called a grid charger it charges the while pack slowly.. Look up prius prolong grid charger
@@mattaitchey4917 thanx
Good idea and workable. I use a shop light instead, so I can discharge quickly.
@@VeniceHybridTech hi yes could definitely speed up the process with a bigger load if you like but I keep it low so the mediocre modules don't flop out towards the end of test :)
Very informative. Thinking of starting my own hybrid battery service shop. How do i secure a high speed charger?
Plaese send me an email at info@venicehybridtech.com
and we will go from there.
huge fan of your channel, keep up the good work.I have a Lexus rx400h 2007, it was parked for 7 or months, it was started 3 months ago and ran for 1 hour. I fully charged the auxiliary battery too, then I took the negative terminal off from auxiliary battery so that not drain the battery. it was parked for 2 months, when I connected the auxiliary battery again, it's not starting, it's saying check hybrid system. I fully charged the auxiliary battery again, connect and disconnect the battery for 10 mins both aux battery and hybrid battery fuse for 10 mins. the engine is not cranking at all, all electronic and lights etc all works fine. the hybrid battery level indicator is very low in the last 2 red level indicators. the car has only done 60000 miles,. can you tell me how can solve this issue and start the car would really appreciate it.
You need to purchase a grid charger for your car and charge the hybrid battery up. Then only the car will start.
I have the exact same problem on my 2007 400h. I need a grid charger?
Im here new i would like to know more Can you recharge a dead battery cell and whats charge and discharge means
I have a prius 14 . How can I charge my batteries with a 337 wh renogy power pack. The unit comes on and then clicks off with the normal charging cord. I have another broken cord that I would like to modify to plug in to the power pack and the car to top off the charge on the car in he afternoon. Do you have a wiring diagram of the charging cord that can show how to modify this cord to charge off of my power pack? I want to bypass the defective circuit board.
Sir. Tha k you for the advice.
The problem with bulk discharge and charging are not helping balance the cells and thus this method of charge-discharge will damage the units more than help them. If however all the cells/blocks are equal wear and votalge and resistance then bulk discharging /charging would help. But rarely would that be the case.
Guys I respect your knowledge, I have a problem with my Prius 2010 ,172k the 28 modules voltage are around 8 v, and I have
Poa80, what can be?
@@carlosgrande8546 it is one of your cells going bad.
Check hv battery ecu
@@carlosgrande8546 Is your car regular home use or taxi cab?
It makes a big difference.
If it is home use you can change your batterie cells, but if it is taxi I can tell you from my experience you will need to change your hybrid battery.
To find out which cell pair is bad you need a scan tool.
Carlos Grande check to make sure none of them are grounded to the frame. some times there is a leak and the bolt holding the individual battery modules gets shorted to the nut holding it to the frame. the other issues is that the internal resistance is high. test the modules under a load and see any that cant handle a load.
Very good You're the first fellow that I've seen doing at the way I wanted to do it.. but I just wanted to charge mine.. anyway what I did was put it into another gen 2 Prius and jumped from the inverter cables into the battery..
But please where did you get the grid charger for the 280 volts? Or was it 208 volts? Did you build it yourself?
You're a man after my own mind.. are you from Iran?
Hi, Yes I built it myself. Been doing it for more than 10 years.
What kind of charger us use...
So i recommended recharging the hyundai hybrid batteries 2011 to 2014 ???,thanks for your input
Hello Raj, I have a 2009 Prius that appears to have a drained hybrid battery. Can I use a MAXX charger to restore it so I can start the car again? What do you recommend in that situation?
Yes, You can use any charger to charge it up. Watch my videos.
Interesting, power here it Australia it 240 volts. Do I still have to do half pack cheers
No, You can do the whole pack in one time.
@@VeniceHybridTech thx mate
Could you tell me about the charger your using for that battery?
I am using a Grid Charger.
Is it OK for my grid charger to show 285v every time I turn it on and connect to my 2005 prius hybrid battery?
Im thinking in connect alligators clamps on the 2 prones that connect the harness and charge it from there .
Can you please explain your comments a bit more clearly. Then i can respond. Sorry.
Hi Venice Hybrid tech! I have a Gen 1 version of your charger that I bought many years ago, but wanted to know if I could use it on a Gen2 or Gen3. I believe you had instructions for doing both Gen1 and Gen2 at the time...but now we have Gen 3, so I am assuming its the same as Gen 2 sine there are the same number of cells as a gen 2. I saw your Gen 3 video on charging, so is it the same, except for the voltage needing to be finished at 240v instead of 280v?
thanks!
Hi Wes, yes you can definitely use the same charger to charge the Gen II and Gen III Prius. Go to my website and download the instructions and follow those. Keep an eye on the Voltmeter window and stop charging as soon as you reach the desired voltages. Good luck.
@@VeniceHybridTech Thank you! I am connected now and letting it charge. I'll message back and maybe throw in my own pictures to show how it did. :)
Hello Venice, Thanks for your time. I am needing to by a hybrid car but the batteries are so expensive. Do you know how to revive dead cells and refurbish batteries. I know you just showed how to charge it but I am speaking more on when the battery goes bad. Also, do you recommend a hybrid. Trying to do research before I buy.
I like Toyota Hybrid vehicles.
i left my prius c parked for 6 months . now came back , got new 12v battery but the hybrid battery is totally low and the car's engine is not starting .. any chance the hybrid batteries servived ? anyother way to start the engine without a charger ? thank you
Yes in all probability, your car battery survived but has gone down. The battery will need to be charged and brought back up to a level where it can be functional. You will definitely need a charger otherwise the car will not start. You may buy another hybrid battery pack otherwise.
@@VeniceHybridTech Thank you for the reply & the hope that may be it survived
I have a 2007 Nissan Altima Hybrid. Will this method potentially work for it? Also, do I have to remove it out of the back seat to recharge it?
Hi Lisa, your car is similar to Toyota Camry. You can read about it on my website www.venicehybridtech.com
I have 07 Toyota Prius the hybrid battery won't go over 4 lines charge but I pull the hybrid battery then I test all the battery ceal have 7.6V all is good but won't change morthen 4 lines so what could be wrong with any idea please respond, thanks
Watch this video for explanation. ua-cam.com/video/ejMPDOu04Rg/v-deo.html
The battery pack has lost a lot of its capacity. There may be a few ( 4-6 ) modules which are very weak and hence do not allow the pack to be fully charged. You need to replace the bad modules.
What is wrong with charging the battery with the car by puting it in drive, stepping on the brake firm and depressing the throttle to the floor until it is charged and green? Would that be a better way to charge rather than buying a fast charger?
Hi, nothing wrong at all. If it works for you, i am happy for you. Enjoy.
Thumbs up # 667 - I had to move you from 666 - thanks for the video!
Can I Discharge a Hybride battery by AC inverter. Which convert voltage 110 is it correct or wrong way please give your precious guidness thank you very much.
Yes, just make sure your wattage is high enough. Probably at least a 450W inverter.
Yes you can use an inverter to discharge but make sure you feed the correct voltage to the inverter. Don't try to connect the whole pack at one go, it will burn it.
@@VeniceHybridTech Thank you souch sir.
Hi
Whats the best eay to test the cells thanks
This was an amazing video thank you!!
Please guys my Toyota highlander 2008 hybrid batteries are discharged due to long period of parking. What can I do, need your sincere advice. How can get the Venice high speed charger. Iam in Nigeria
No worries. You can either buy the high Speed Charger or the normal Grid Charger. Then charge or recondition your battery pack. I think just charging will work fine. Shipping will be a problem as its expensive. You should buy a Grid Charger.
Contact us at info@venicehybridtech.com
@@VeniceHybridTech Please how much is the high speed charger or the grid charger
I had my Nissan Altima Hybrid serviced (oil & filter) and when I got the car back there was absolutely no reading on the hybrid's battery charge gauge. When I drive the car the hybrid battery charges but at a much slower rate than normal & I can't get it more than 3/4 fully charged and it's power seems to be used up much quicker than before. Any ideas as to what happened.
Hi Lana, there are two things that come to my mind. Firstly, check the level of oil. If it is too high, then you have to get it drained and it should be at the correct level. Secondly, there are too many sensors in the hybrid system. They could have damaged a sensor, hence the problem. Another possibility is that they could have damaged some wire connected with the hybrid system. You must consult a technician.
Hello I have a 2012 Toyota Prius Hybrid that started dying while driving at lower speed, would restart it and get about a mile before it would shut off again. I did this about 3/4 times before it completely died and would not restart. I pulled out the 12 volt battery and it was at 4.2 so took it in to have it recharged. Put back in my car and the display keeps saying “ something is wrong with the hybrid system, pull over to a safe place and contact a dealer.
Does this sound like it could be the hybrid battery? If so, can I try the method you used to discharge & recharge ?? I don’t have 3 k for new charger
Hi Gayle, I think the 12 V needs replacing. Just charging it is not enough. You need to get it checked from Auto Zone etc. That is the first requirement. Once that is taken care of, also check that you do have gas in the car!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you still get the warning signs, then yes the hybrid pack is the culprit. Watch my videos. I do not recommend cycling the hybrid pack.
Sir charging and discharging of my honda civic hybrid IMA 1.3 GEN 2 with individual battery sticks can it affect on battery....because my car is not used full of assist while i am driving in battery mode under 45 speed it supports me only 75%....not any code on dash everything is in perfect plzzzz suggest me sir
Pretty sure Honda Gen 2 is using niMH battery cells, that being said; your batteries are doing their job the way the battery ECU is instructing them however, niMH batteries lose their "memory" for their peak voltage. What that means is that through normal use they begin to lower their operating voltage and the ECU knows no difference. Once the resistance increases high enough, you'll get that red code for sure. Charge/discharge is a way to help them get their "memory" back
@@mauricioalvarez3 thank u sir for repl..some behaviour happen with my car batteries like backup is increased automatically...in lockdown i cant drive the car for 3 days in weak.but i take it for drive atleast in 4 days for batteries charged so that time i drove the car in full assist and discharged the batteries and again i charged them in 4km driving..after a 1month..i focus on charging and discharging battery,my car battery backup increases by 20%
i cannot understand how that possible..anyways thank u sir for your long experienced guidence..thank u so much again🤝❤
I have a 2015 Kia optima hybrid my dash keeps saying hybrid battery were can I fix this problem or how please give me a suggestion sir
Hi Flako, I think your hybrid pack is made of Li Ion cells, which are not easy to repair. In my opinion, you should look for another battery pack on EBay or in some junk yards and replace the battery pack.
3:09 on the plug that you made is it easy to know what side to use the red wire and what side to use the black wire? Thanks, I do not know much about wiring.
Hi Sean, for this plug, polarity does not matter as you are only discharging with a shop light. You can connect any wire to any point on the plug. Hope this helps.
@@VeniceHybridTech Thanks for the reply. Can I also connect one end to the other if I want to discharge the whole thing at once, connecting also 2 clips where the curcuit break is?
@@seanogrady2629 Your question is not clear!!!!!!!!!!!! Just follow what I am doing.
@@VeniceHybridTech Got it. One more thing at 3:14 I noticed the white connector you made is only two pin while the black plug is three pin. My question is can I create one with three pins so it fits perfectly or does it have to be two pin with lamp's third pin sticking out like that?
@@seanogrady2629 Yes for sure.
Hello sir ,
I want to know how you change Toyota hybrid battery .
Means what type off charge you use please let me know many thanks.
Hi, I use a Grid Charger which has a voltage output of 285 V and a current of 350mA.
@@VeniceHybridTech
Many thanks for your reply to me
Also is any pictures or any link where can I buy please sir?
If it was me and I had a spare hybrid battery I'd be looking at discharging one into the other with a DC - DC charger, you won't catch all the energy but better than wasting it 🥱
Thank you sir. Is the hi voltage charger expensive. How can I purchase one? Is it affordable?
Please go to my website www.venicehybridtech.com and look at all the prices for all the products. Thanks.
Can u tell me what charger u can for 3hr charge thanks very much
Hi Richard, our High Speed Chargers generally take less than two hours to charge any hybrid battery pack. What battery are you thinking about or is it for a shop??????
To charge prius battery at shop thanks
@@richardreinhardt6976 Yes, our High Speed Charger with fixed voltage, costing $ 400 is most suitable for that job. It is designed for that purpose in mind. We use it in our place of work, all the time.
Alligater clip mot crocodile
Is it the same with gen3 prius battery?
Yes, You can do the same wit any battery pack.
@@VeniceHybridTech what charger do i need if charge cell by cell or 2cell by 2cell?
I want to charge my hybrid battery but i haven’t found a charge that charge the whole battery, what charge do you recommend? Thank you 🙏🏽
Hi Steve, we have a number of different models of chargers for different hybrid vehicles. What cat do you have and I will suggest you. All the chargers charge the whole pack at the same time.
I’ve a 2010 Prius, that is the charge I want, that I can charge my whole pack at the same time, I saw a prolong battery charge but that is really expensive and hard to find. Thank you for answering me!
Hi Steve, yes we have a charger for 2010 Prius, costing $ 300.00 and shipping is $ 15.00 but make sure your hybrid pack is not Li Ion but NiMH chemistry. Contact us at 424 227 6719.
had 4 bad modules lying around, wanted to charge them up to do diy battery powered lights. but im scared to do it😂
Yes, you need to be very careful as these old modules can explode. You have to keep them in a vice and charge them slowly!!!!!!!!!!!
Appreciate video content! Apologies for chiming in, I would appreciate your opinion. Have you heard the talk about - Lammywalness Trendy Trade Guide (erm, check it on google should be there)? It is a great one off product for learning how to recondition batteries at home without the headache. Ive heard some awesome things about it and my friend at last got cool results with it.
Your comment is spam. This product of yours has nothing to do with the prius hybrid modules
Alligator clips
Does this really work I have a hybrid battery do you know how to tell witch cell is bad?
I could only make it to 3 min mark
That means your hybrid pack is very weak and will need a lot of work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@VeniceHybridTech 3 minutes in and still nothing about working on the pack, found lots that gave me lots of info on the pack and how to work on it in under 3 minutes. Use your time wisely and watch your subs grow. Info is much more attractive than rambling
And you won't go very far.......
why don't talk about the price ????