Level Design Workshop: Designing Celeste
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- Опубліковано 26 лют 2018
- In this 2017 GDC session, Celeste lead developer Maddy Thorson touches on a range of topics through the tools and process of designing 300+ hardcore platformer stages for Celeste, arranging the sprawling area maps that make up the mountain, and weaving story elements through its game world.
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“If you’ve heard of me it’s probably because of towerfall.” He had no idea how popular Celeste would be
The game literally took over the speed running genre. Even though it has a smaller player base, it’s speed running community rivals that of Mario games.
@@JM-us3fr speedrunning isn't a genre, is a play style, and speed runner love Celeste because of how rewarding it is for the players who mastered the mechanics and how easy is to fail a level and just accept that it was fault of the player and not of the level and just keep trying more and more without frustration.
@@juanrodriguez9971 nice pic :D thought I commented this without watching video.
@@mevlanaayas7308 For a moment I thought UA-cam was bugging again XD nice pic
well cause celeste wasnt released then? it was in the first 30 seconds lmaoo
"Probably around 400 by the time it's out"
*final game has 706 levels*
"How do you code like you're writing out of time?!"
I got that reference, I like you
Hamilton!
*806 or more
@ LONELY GIRL PFP
Oh my gosh. Mr. Oshiro was way scarier in the demo than he is now.
MAGIC BLOCK IS COMING.
Womboshiro
Now is just a marshmallow with a tiny body.
VLC AUDIO AT TWO HUNDRED PERCENT, got me like "I'M MADELINE AND I'M HERE TO DESTROY THIS MOUNTAIN WITH THE GOTH SIDE OF MYSELF"
btw Celeste is one of my favorite game ever
Adzetko Hohengarten I feel you my guy. I feel you.
that's vlc for you
That made my day
Imagine his brain just imploding when he discovered that by some miracle the entire area was possible without dashing once.
He already know cuz if u did that u will get a golden strawberry
it wasn't possible until kevin suggested that they made some adjustments to make it possible so that there would be 200 berries instead of 199
@@RichConnerGMN yeah and then they added farewell which sorta put that in the trash with 2 more berries
Ingredients: 20% ignorance, 50% weed, 30% arrogance.
Celeste is already one of my all-time favorite games, but thanks to this video, I can appreciate the subtle layers of depth even more. Amazing!
Took me a second to remember that you were behind that wind waker unplugged video from years back. My teacher showed it to us in class!
Celeste is probably the most polished game I've ever played. Maddie has so much to be proud of. Imagine if it came out in a different year, could have easily won game of the year, it's just a tough act to follow when there was so many great games.
And how much it improved from 2018 is amazing
Thorson may not be the best public speaker here but his method shows it's power in the released game. Celeste was way better than I ever expected it to be. I thought it would just be another Super Meat Boy knock-off game but Celeste blows SMB out of the water. As much as I enjoyed SMB it has basically no narrative weight and the levels after the first 2-3 per chapter don't feel as rewarding to complete they way they do in Celeste. When I beat SMB or finished the Dark World I wasn't excited I was just glad to be done with it. When I first finished the Summit in Celeste I was pumping my fists in the air like "fuck yes, I did it!" as a similar reaction when I finally beat Core B-Side.
Yeah they did a great job with building up the tension and ramp up the emotion in the game
You are right about SMB but I think SMB comes as a predecessor to Celeste. If it wasn't for it we wouldn't have great games like Celeste or Hollow Knight.
Matt actually made a game called Jumper that was pretty similar to super meat boy but it came out before. I believe the main character (ogmo) is an unlockable character in SMB
yeah i stayed up until midnight trying to beat 8B and when i did i was just so happy, not out of relief, but instead a feeling of accompishment
when you feel you've achieved something, just remember that there's a tgh who's better than you.
"if you want to climb up a single wall like that you have to climb and use your grip strength"
LIES
but for real though, one of the neatest things about this talk is seeing all the subtle changes that took place at the very end of development. Obviously the dash got a cooler animation, and the resort rising spikes were changed to the red tendrils so that they were distinct at a glance from actual spikes. But also adding in the little visual for when your jump has a momentum boost. It just makes that teaching moment at the end more explicit, because you can actually see that you're going faster rather than just noticing the extra distance.
Honestly might be the best 2d platformer I've ever played. It's so surprising to be able to say that after all the years that games have been out.
CyrusShadowBlade well it's standing on the shoulders of giants. Developers like Matt Thorson are able to build on the collective experience of game developers making platformers for years and years. There are plenty of great platformers, but I'd probably agree with you that Celeste is certainly a masterpiece. Even better is that with Celeste added to the collective canon of platformers, other developers will be able to learn from the lessons learnt by Matt and co (if they do their research) and possibly go on to build even better experiences.
It's definitely the best of the 'indie' era I've played. I'm not sure what my ultimate favorite is, but I would definitely put Celeste up in the rarified air with Nintendo's 2D platforming masterpieces.
chaosmos24 It's on all systems, not only Nintendo lol. But sure I guess.
I think he was just commenting on Nintendo games in general, not implying that Celeste was only on there.
As another poster helpfully pointed out, I wasn't trying to imply that Celeste was only on the Switch. I was just comparing it to Nintendo's best platformers, which I personally consider to be the pinnacle of the genre.
Thanks for this video! I just finished the game on normal, 19hrs, 5195 deaths, 67 strawberries. I know, not great, but Madeline wouldn't care. I got it done, and it was fun to hear how some of these levels were designed.
30:30 YES I noticed this while playing and its such a small thing, but it makes the game feel so much smoother. This is a great sign of a game developer who really thinks evereything about the game through
I also noticed that! It felt so great to be able to flow immediately into the level after dying instead of having to wait for some timing thing to happen. Even where there was timing involved it was all synced so well that if you were fast enough you never had to wait for anything.
Yeah, I noticed in chapter 3 I could just gun it the moment I died and I would find a timing window without having to wait. (a few times I had to wait like half a second but never too long)
The way the areas are put together is amazing. The way the gameplay fit the story, and the story fits the gameplay is... amazing
The gameplay and story are married in this game I think almost better than any other.
After watching how he designed these levels and began discussing things that are and aren't possible, I just had to check the patch notes of the game since release. There's a bonus collectible at the end of Chapter 1A that you can get for clearing the chapter without dashing a single time. I figured that was patched in at some point to reward players who abused the engine in a way that was never considered. Some of the moves required include infinite single wall jumps and spike jumping.
Nope. That collectible has been there since release. So not only did he know that these mechanics exist in his game, he designed the first chapter in such a way that it was possible, albeit incredibly difficult, to beat without dashing once if you use those mechanics. Talk about giving the player the freedom to complete a level the way they want.
the game was designed around speedrunning too, goes back to what he said about rewarding players who spent time and effort getting better at the game
It's safe to say that the team absolutely nailed their design goals.
Celeste may be the best platforming experience of my life. Simply brilliant.
Watched this talk before I played Celeste and then again after. Conclusion is reinforced, but still the same as before: Matt Thorson is brilliant.
im just blown away by all the things they take into consideration. This is a craftmanship. And it shows. The game is superb on so many levels I can't deal with it. Inspiring talk.
this was already my favorite game ever by far, but watching this has given me an even greater appreciation for it. the absolute genius behind the level design is incredible, i love it so much
I love that they added climbing and exhaustion (instead of simply wall jumping as in the Pico-8 version) to get the feeling of struggle and relief after finding a safe ledge. I've never climbed a mountainside, but I've done some intense hikes and scrambles, and the game really captures the feelings of stress and elation I've experienced. (Summit downdraft and updraft, anyone?) I was sure that someone who designed the game had climbing experience!
Such a useful talk. Thanks Maddy.
This game has become one of my all time favorites. Great talk
Game of the god damn year.
GOTGDY does have a ring to it
Been loosely following Matt's games since the Jumper days. It's incredible how far he's come.
I like the way he said the levels are like a song. And each level tells a story. I never thought about it that way. I just thought as levels as getting to the boss
Love this game and love hearing the approach to pacing and teaching especially. Celeste is a brilliant and thoughtfully designed game!
i love how they embraced the speedrunning community. every timesaving bug that is not breaking the game for casual gamers can stay.
And like he said its really fun to watch expert players approach the levels completely different than me.
Lol at pre release hotel boss design
to avoid spoiling the game, I guess
That's gaming WIP for you.
? What? When does it show it?
I'm sure he was also referring to the clip from the trailer.
@@tovi3280 15:13
dear matt,
thanks for taking the time to make celeste.
even more thanks for making sure its a great game.
love, matt
Celeste is such an amazing game, the talk explains the ideas that went into its levels so well!
im glad they changed mr. oshiro's anger face
It's cool to hear him say that DKC meant a lot to him and was an inspiration. I really enjoyed Celeste, the story and feel of the game (music + graphics) particularly in the last half of the game had a magic that was up there with DKC2. Personally I found Celeste even more touching as it paired that soft innocent feel that we all start life with having to overcome real life adversity/pain by changing our own mindset.
These design presentations are the best part of GDC.
Its nice to see all these levels and
see what was changed in the final version.
It's nice to see Aragorn's developing indie games in his spare time.
10:50 "...different techniques that we never teach the player and never require them to use to beat the game normally. [...] Here's another one where the player has to do this long dash jump that we never teach them how to do. [...] So only the best players are gonna figure this out" - yeaaaaah right. And then chapter 9 happened.
Well yeah. They expanded upon their level design in the final bonus chapter to make an ultimate final area. The point is that this mechanic isn’t something taught to you by this point during your first playthrough, and so it doesn’t break the original story.
that teaching level was the thing to me, it hooked me up SO MUCH in celeste for their big braining that i just loved it
This structure of game story > area story > level story reminds me of Half-Life 2's story structure. Very clever!
I loved this game, it was a great experience of fun yells of defeat, and enjoyed the cute characters and story.
Actually this was super awesome piece of advice. It definitely will end up improving my game!
This takes me back to my old Super Nintendo days. I never had the willpower to finish one back in the days but after 1900 deaths and 10 hours, I nailed it! Can't wait to play through again and try to get all the goods. Excellent game, and really cool video about how it was built.
Thanks for making my new favorite game
Fantastic game. Great talk. You guys really understand your craft. Massive thumbs up.
Good talk! I stuck at one of the level shown in the talk with the level moving up to give you a momentum to jump. Wow.
YES!!!! The video I've been waiting for!!!!!!
I LOVE this game! Everyone should give it a try
For decades, I’ve been begging friends to try Jumper 2, and almost all of them just brushed it off because I’m a speedrunner so it obviously must be some mega hard game they can’t beat. That, and it had been some free exe by some random kid they’d never heard of. I’m so happy that random kid has finally received the recognition they’ve deserved.
delightful talk,awesome game.
both really inspiring
Oh shit it's Matty fuckin' Thorson! I did a global game jam with this cat back in 2010.
archive.globalgamejam.org/2010/eaty-guys-and-operator
Fun times.
Edit: Guess Matt goes by Maddy now.
Awesome talk, the development of this game is very inspirational and informative.
This game looks amazing. Will buy!
This guy knows his stuff. Amazing talk!
Great talk, Love everything about the game
This is gold Jerry, gold!
I was a huge fan ever since he made "An Untitled Story"
Remains to this day my favorite game of all time. (Tied with the game whose protagonist I borrowed for my avatar.)
When I was a kid I used to follow his games on the GameMaker forums, but when I heard about Celeste I mostly remembered he was the guy who made Jumper - I can't believe I forgot he made An Untitled Story!! That was my favourite game for years after I first played it!
Wow, such a nice and creative gameplay. He's so smart.
"Pitch" instead of "Areas" would of been a cool addition! Ive been watching a bunch of rock climbing docs
Lots of respect. If only all the game developers payed so much attentiion to these little things, that make a game perfect. Insane, simply amazing level design.
@Life Master Not really i mean most games dont even come close to this level of design. They try but mostly fail. But hopefully the fact Celeste did so well, will inspire more devs to follow this route in future games. So thats very positive for future indie gaming and platformers in general. Its not easy to innovate in an oversaturated genre cause most people will always compare you to the best stuff from the genre. Its easy to fall short. But glad Celeste didn't. :)
we need a super celeste maker tbh
Thank you for the game
Gah - that audio clipping! DX
Love the game though. And the music. Soooooo awesome! XD
I hate watching videos like this, because the person talks about the beautiful art of level design and how it expresses your feelings and whatnot. Then there's me just going "throw some random spikes here and a bouncepad here and an enemy there, cool that is... almost playable!"
Finji t-shirt? MAN KNOWS HIS STUFF! 👌
They should take the levels they throw out on Celeste and make a lost level, dlc. I started this wanting ideas for level design and now I am going to buy a game.
When you buy the game, a lot of the scrapped ideas seemed to have made it the b side levels (he calls it hard mode).
cool.
zachary, I think at the time of this talk there weren't any b-sides in the first place and it was going to just be hardmode at first, the idea for b-sides was later if im correct
The B-Sides are Hard Mode, renamed and unlocked through a special style of timing puzzle. The B-Sides (and later challenges too...) were probably based on those discarded ideas, only refined to be more challenging. No DLC required!
Andrew Turner and then c-side as well, which is even harder if im not mistaken. Im so glad i bought this game, i had a free $10 ps card so i only had to put $10 towards it, so worth it!
Not the best public speaker, but easily one of my favourite developers. His jumper series and untitled story games really were classics also and were highlights to just how good his design skills were.
I really hope his next game is a metroidvania like untitled story.
That chinese guy btw was like this is just an evolved version of jumper obviously misses alot of the point.
As a casual speed runner, for some reason I kinda felt bad when he talked about fixing the level desighn to prevent people from skipping the story of the level. Now people can just wavedash over hard sections xD
"Celeste is all about traversing space"
Well, your not wrong about that.
galaktikpotato aka scrub man *Farewell*
THE AUDIO QUALITY LOOLL
oh wow that little part of the trailer with the 5 badelines where they were RIGHT behind you. that looks like a nightmare
This game gives me strong Jumper Two vibes (and the same nightmares with the B and C-sides)
This game is masterpiece
6:24 ...And then the Farewell chapter happened.
Anyone know what talk the first question around 27:20 referenced? I couldn't make out the name, but if it's related to this talk I would be eager to listen.
A reply on a duplicate question led me to ua-cam.com/video/VM7jCOeVte8/v-deo.html (or maybe one of his other talks). Still it was a weird first question, esp. how the asker followed up on it
10:28
After watching this trick, I tried it in game and succeeded, although I am not a pro player))
These tricks are basically mandatory in the dlc
1:09 Thanks Mr Oshiro I won't be able to sleep at night.
Beta Oshiro is kind of weird.
Celeste is an absolute masterpiece. Happily bought this game. Having a blast and love supporting smaller developers after all the fiascos from major publishers these days. Hopefully people like Matt Thorson will rise up and create more amazing games and use their profits from Celeste to put into new projects. Thanks for a wonderfully fun platformer!
"Celeste is an absolute masterpiece."
I say its over-rated. I got it on egs for free and played for like an hour or so. Closed it and never went back.
Is it a solid platformer? Yes.
Is it a masterpiece? IDK, I have played far better plats, Ori and THK, you know what I mean.
matt: starts trailer
trailer: DUUUUN DUDUDUDUUUUUUN!
For real
Any idea what the other talk was that was mentioned in the first question? @27:18
I couldn't find a list of the speakers or archive of the schedule but he spoke on the 28th or 29th at around 1 pm a year ago, in room 130. I wasn't curious enough to contact anyone.
I think it was Itay Keren probably talking about Mushroom 11
Does anyone know what level editor was used at 16:41?
at 7:46, what was the pixel art looking thing he used to model his level? Is that a program? how can I get that?
This is internal tool that was never planned to be published. You can get custom map-making (and modding) tools on Celeste Discord server: discord.gg/u9ST3yw
This game reminds me of Dangerous Dave
0:08 We had no idea.
I don’t think she did, either.
Damn good
2:30 accurate representation of C-Side levels
Mr Osborn scares me
Guy: we can't make that possible
Speedrunners: I'm going to ignore that
Y’all should release a level editor
I have a slight disagreement with him saying his team attempted to create levels whose individual stories could be solved many ways. I felt many times during the B-side levels that the timing or positioning needed to be so accurate that there really isn't any way to solve a level without a specific "pre-determined" series of button presses.
I still really enjoyed the game. The "A-side"/main story was really fun without being too challenging and had great music. B side was frustratingly difficult at times, but what kept me going was the really amazing creativity the level designers had. I felt like every idea/main challenge was VERY well explored throughout each area and I wanted to see all the permutations they would come up with.
Christian Lavados the B sides are literally the levels that got thrown away. Hence their name.
It's still surprising how many different ways I could beat a B-Side level, choosing where to cling and where to jump off quickly, choosing to catch a wall or fall straight, dash straight or upward and fall back. Even though the freedom is more restricted in B-Sides, it's still consciously included.
Go watch a speedrun of the B-Sides and see if they "solved" them the same way you did
Yeah I get what you are saying but by the nature of being harder there has to be less ways to solve it. Also the multiple ways won't be as straight forward as the A sides. But there definitely is multiple ways especially if you pick up some speed running tech, while the inputs may be harder they make many sections much easier to do. Wave dash is your best friend.
For those that don't know wave dash is jumping into the air, downward dashing into the ground and pressing jump when you hit the ground. It gives you massive speed and distance as well as allowing you to retain your dash mid air. It can be further controlled height wise by the few frame window in which you jump. Early will be longer and less high, later will be shorted with more height. whether or not you hold jump also effects this move so in one advanced move you get three different outcomes.
This doesnt even include the dash cancel jump or the reverse hyper dash. The hyper dash is basically interchangeable with the wave dash but you need space for the hyper dash where you can perform the wave dash on a single block if you are precise enough. And everything i mentioned doesn't even cover all the advanced movement tech you can do to find new ways to finish levels
7:45 og maps
16:17 best part imo
"If you can approach everything from any angle you are not going to challenge the player." Exactly. Listen to this, Breath of the Wild!
26:10 I was stupid (or smart?) enough to do that without momentum.
Nice
Wish to be a genius like this guys
making sure UI/buttons/features work in releases was not part of the design and q&a, or qc, in the windows (store) version
I am using Monogame to develop a game as well
Does anyone knows what's the map editor they use at 16:16 ? That looks so great.
Could very well be ldtk
@@soysorray Well seems celeste realeased much earlier than this. But still an awesome tool, thanks!
you can acess by typing "e" console which you can open by hitting "`" key on pc, iirc
some level editor that they made specifically for the game iirc
Did the Hard Mode turn into the B sides and C sides?
Propably
Dwhat tlak is the first person who askes a questions is named? I need more level design
4:14 well actually....
Oshiro just hovers behind you, would’ve been nice, I probably spent 100 deaths on that level.
Now when its out...
I am amazed.
You are im the level of toby fox in making a good game!
I’m assuming he spoke about that falling block level before adding a reward for beating the area without using dash...
Looooooong before. :P
That was probably one of the last things he added in the entire game.
Whats the reward?
@@TheGauges420 a winged golden strawberry. It's very difficult to get, but go ahead and try