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A lot of Japanese Christians speak Portuguese and in the novel and tv series when the characters speak in English that means they’re speaking in Portuguese. However, Blackthorne and Mariko also speak Latin, that is their secret language together. When they need to speak in Latin they will use old English “Thou art” to differentiate it from talking in Portuguese.
I always like when they do that. Like how the people without accents in Amadeus are native fluent German speakers, and the others speak German with (mostly) an Italian accent.
Historical facts The Bateren Edict (1587) Toyotomi Hideyoshi got furious when he found out that the Jesuits were selling Japanese abroad as slaves and breaking down Buddhist temples and Shinto shrines. San Felipe incident (1596) On October 19, 1596, the Spanish ship San Felipe was shipwrecked on Urado in Kōchi on the Japanese island of Shikoku en route from Manila to Acapulco in the Manila-Acapulco Galleon Trade. The local daimyō Chōsokabe Motochika of the Chōsokabe clan that ruled Tosa province during the Sengoku Era seized the cargo of the richly laden Manila galleon, and the incident escalated to Toyotomi Hideyoshi, ruling taikō of Japan. The pilot of the ship suggested to Japanese authorities that it was Spanish modus operandi to have missionaries infiltrate a country before an eventual military conquest, as had been done in the Americas and the Philippines. This led to the crucifixion of 26 Christians in Nagasaki, the first lethal persecution of Christians by the state in Japan. The executed were later known as the Twenty-Six Martyrs of Japan.
I'm already in love with the twists and turns - and the TENSION - we've had so far, and all the main characters are WONDERFUL to watch (especially Toranaga, imo)! Really enjoying your conversations over what's going on in each scene, and your obvious investment in this brilliant show! So grateful we have another 8 chapters to enjoy! Great job!
The young woman (OCHIBA) who appeared at the beginning of the episode is TAIKO's wife. At that time, Japan was a polygamous society, and people married more than one woman in order to have a male heir. Since only OCHIBA conceived a boy, she was promoted to the top tier among TAIKO's wives. Since TAIKO's son was still young, TAIKO left a will that five regents should administer the country until he came of age and became king. Since Toranaga has the bloodline of an old king, the four regents are afraid that he will become the new king. In the first meeting of Episode 1, TORANAGA tells how he moved OCHIBA to his territory as a hostage to prevent himself from being killed immediately.
I think you need to clarify the polygamy. There were wives, and there were consorts or concubines. The wife was always at the top of the pile. Until she wasn’t … but anyway. Point is it wasn’t truly a polygamous society
@@LaoWatsonSmith That's misleading. They didn't all have the same status but they were all wives. It's just an English language convention to use different terms and imply otherwise. Also, polygamy is generally always limited to aristocrats. Only a few societies, mostly in Europe, are hardline monogamists even for the most high status men. Elsewhere, historically, there's going to be at least the most high status men taking multiple wives.
According to the explanation in the novel (which may not be fully accurate but it is what the show is based on) the lords could only have one wife, but they could have as many consorts as they wished and any child born by a concubine was fully recognised and was as entitled to inherit as a child from a wife. But I believe that only through marriage could famili3s be joined. This is why the regents brought up that Toranaga consented to six marriages and doubled the size of his fief (territory) since the Taiko's death. He married his sons and other relations off to other lords so that their lands would pass into his family's hands. That doesn't apply to women who become concubines. It is a high honour for them to become a powerful lord's cosort, but it doesn't secure more territory, just more kids
17:34 And my country fell in the Portuguese half as well but Spain said "Nah, they won't notice" and Portugal said "Meh, you can have it" then Spain said "Alrighty then, no backsies"
The comparisons to Game of Thrones are ridiculous. Clavell's novel "Shogun" came out in 1975 and is based on true events in history. Martin's first "A song of ice and fire" novel "A Game of Thrones" came out in 1996. And it is total fiction or more accurate - fantasy.
It's a compliment, comparing the quality of the writing and grand scope. But yes, when people compare the 'world building' to GoT, that is ridiculous, as this is historical fiction based on true events.
The comparisons exist because GRRM was heavily influenced by Clavell's Shogun novel. His writings show the influence and this show has clearly taken influence from the GOT HBO show. The comparisons are not ridiculous at all.
Found you through your insidious reactions and stayed through the rest!! I love how you guys react to every movie in a series you’re doing, it’s rare people get past the 2nd or 3rd movie so I appreciate it. Love you guys and your reactions, stay safe and have fun! ❤😊
Mother of Taiko's son was famous 3 sisters who married into Toyotomi (Taiko), Tokunaga's son (Toranaga) and Imperial house. Mariko (daughter of Akechi who was Oda Nobunaga's General)
The younger pregnant lady is Toranaga's wife. Kiri (the older lady) is his consort (concubine, more or less). There can only be one official wife, but however many consorts a man wants. Ochiba (who said "the kingdom is up your ass" ) is the wife of the late Taiko and the mother of his heir (the young kid). She is also sister to Toranaga's daughter-in-law, who's just given birth. Edit: The official webpage of the show says that Kiri is actually Toranaga's wife and Ochiba was Taiko's consort. Maybe I misremembered it from the book, or maybe they changed it up for the show for some reason, but there you have it.
Actually the pregnant lady and Kiri no kata were both Toranaga's consorts. His wife died long ago. Kiri no kata in fact is a very smart and important lady and in real history she was very influencial to Tokugawa (real life Toranaga). Ochiba was also the Taiko's consort and the only one with a son and the lady near him in his bed was the principal one. (I forgot her name but she is famous)
@@kansairobot2015 Oh, maybe. I remember his wife died, I just thought it's a new one. The book is so thick these details got a bit mixed up for me. Still, the website says they are both his wives for some reason.
Blackthorn said he had Letters of Marque from Holland. Letters of Marque are used to say someone is a legal privateer- a mercenary. They would say he is a hired mercenary fighting for Holland which was in the middle of a war to throw off the Catholic rule of Spain over Holland. They would mean Blackthorn and his ship should be treated like lawful combatants instead of pirates who are outlaw thieves. Of course, Holland, the Dutch, being in rebellion, the Portuguese and Spanish want to ignore the letters because that would be admitting the rebel government of Holland is a lawful government. The show and the 1980 TV series are based on James Clavell's historical fiction novel Shogun. It's a great book.
@@overthewebb His nationality is irrelevant to the Letters. It was quite common for the era to have foreigner mercenaries in a country's war. The point of the Letters is that he and his crew should be treated as lawful combatants rather than outlaw pirates. The Portuguese are keen to keep the peace with ally Spain and not recognize the Letters and thereby the Dutch government. They also don't want the Japanese thinking they aren't on the up and up about the Catholic Church and Portuguese intentions in Japan. It's not the British Queen that matters rather that Elizabeth is a Protestant Christian and thereby an illegitimate ruler in the eyes of the Catholic Church. The book and 1980 miniseries make more of a point of that where the Priest explains Blackthorn is fighting for people in rebellion against Spain which makes Toronaga question Blackthorn. Blackthorn: There are mitigating circustances (to Holland's rebellion) Toronaga: There are no mitigating circustances for rebelion (against a lawful ruler) Blackthorn: Unless you win. Toronaga loves the answer because the thrust of the conversation is entirely in sync with Toronaga's plans to eventually become Shogun. There are no mitigating circumstances for Toronaga to break the Taiko's peace unless Toronaga wins.
@@MiLikesVids That's nice but you are wrong. The letters are very important as for the Portuguese and Spanish fuck them, that was the whole point They came from the Dutch with 5 ships and only one survived. All protestants against the Catholic Church. That is all that matters
Ochiba is mother of the heir and her sister had Toronaga's grandchild. she was at his castle in Edo for the birth and was released to go back to Osaka.
Was going to comment this. Ochiba's sister is married to Toranaga's son and she was pregnant. Ochiba went to Edo (definitely wasn't a hostage. No sir, not at all) because her sister was going into labour with Toranaga's grandchild. Once the baby was born, Toranaga had to let her go, otherwise it would have been seen as a hostile act and the Regents would have had all the reason they needed to impeach Toranaga and demand he commit seppuku
just an absolutely fantastic show. reminds me of game of thrones with how well they built the world, the amazing script and camera work, the deep characters and their development, the plots and schemes, very well done. cant wait for episode 3
I'm afraid about Toranaga. According to history, he executed a lot christians in Japan from 1613 and later the religion was banned until 1800s. He is not a good man, but purely loyalty to his country. Don't forget to watch Martin Scorsese's Silence.
It’s just you! 😅 There’s no English being spoken in Japan at this time. A major plot point is the fact that only the Portuguese have controlled access to Japan. The only other language the Japanese might speak or understand is Portuguese.
![Servants of Two Masters | SHOGUN [1x2] (REACTION)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/PywZcyHG0gA/mqdefault.jpg)
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When they are speaking English they are actually speaking Portuguese, the show runners did not want to have full on subtitles for the entire show
Ahhh that makes sense now!!
A lot of Japanese Christians speak Portuguese and in the novel and tv series when the characters speak in English that means they’re speaking in Portuguese.
However, Blackthorne and Mariko also speak Latin, that is their secret language together.
When they need to speak in Latin they will use old English “Thou art” to differentiate it from talking in Portuguese.
I always like when they do that. Like how the people without accents in Amadeus are native fluent German speakers, and the others speak German with (mostly) an Italian accent.
Thank you for explaining me that
Historical facts
The Bateren Edict (1587)
Toyotomi Hideyoshi got furious when he found out that the Jesuits were selling Japanese abroad as slaves and breaking down Buddhist temples and Shinto shrines.
San Felipe incident (1596)
On October 19, 1596, the Spanish ship San Felipe was shipwrecked on Urado in Kōchi on the Japanese island of Shikoku en route from Manila to Acapulco in the Manila-Acapulco Galleon Trade. The local daimyō Chōsokabe Motochika of the Chōsokabe clan that ruled Tosa province during the Sengoku Era seized the cargo of the richly laden Manila galleon, and the incident escalated to Toyotomi Hideyoshi, ruling taikō of Japan. The pilot of the ship suggested to Japanese authorities that it was Spanish modus operandi to have missionaries infiltrate a country before an eventual military conquest, as had been done in the Americas and the Philippines. This led to the crucifixion of 26 Christians in Nagasaki, the first lethal persecution of Christians by the state in Japan. The executed were later known as the Twenty-Six Martyrs of Japan.
I'm already in love with the twists and turns - and the TENSION - we've had so far, and all the main characters are WONDERFUL to watch (especially Toranaga, imo)! Really enjoying your conversations over what's going on in each scene, and your obvious investment in this brilliant show! So grateful we have another 8 chapters to enjoy! Great job!
The young woman (OCHIBA) who appeared at the beginning of the episode is TAIKO's wife.
At that time, Japan was a polygamous society, and people married more than one woman in order to have a male heir.
Since only OCHIBA conceived a boy, she was promoted to the top tier among TAIKO's wives.
Since TAIKO's son was still young, TAIKO left a will that five regents should administer the country until he came of age and became king.
Since Toranaga has the bloodline of an old king, the four regents are afraid that he will become the new king.
In the first meeting of Episode 1, TORANAGA tells how he moved OCHIBA to his territory as a hostage to prevent himself from being killed immediately.
I think you need to clarify the polygamy. There were wives, and there were consorts or concubines. The wife was always at the top of the pile. Until she wasn’t … but anyway. Point is it wasn’t truly a polygamous society
@@LaoWatsonSmith That's misleading. They didn't all have the same status but they were all wives. It's just an English language convention to use different terms and imply otherwise. Also, polygamy is generally always limited to aristocrats. Only a few societies, mostly in Europe, are hardline monogamists even for the most high status men. Elsewhere, historically, there's going to be at least the most high status men taking multiple wives.
According to the explanation in the novel (which may not be fully accurate but it is what the show is based on) the lords could only have one wife, but they could have as many consorts as they wished and any child born by a concubine was fully recognised and was as entitled to inherit as a child from a wife. But I believe that only through marriage could famili3s be joined. This is why the regents brought up that Toranaga consented to six marriages and doubled the size of his fief (territory) since the Taiko's death. He married his sons and other relations off to other lords so that their lands would pass into his family's hands. That doesn't apply to women who become concubines. It is a high honour for them to become a powerful lord's cosort, but it doesn't secure more territory, just more kids
17:34 And my country fell in the Portuguese half as well but Spain said "Nah, they won't notice" and Portugal said "Meh, you can have it" then Spain said "Alrighty then, no backsies"
The comparisons to Game of Thrones are ridiculous. Clavell's novel "Shogun" came out in 1975 and is based on true events in history. Martin's first "A song of ice and fire" novel "A Game of Thrones" came out in 1996. And it is total fiction or more accurate - fantasy.
It's a compliment, comparing the quality of the writing and grand scope. But yes, when people compare the 'world building' to GoT, that is ridiculous, as this is historical fiction based on true events.
The comparisons exist because GRRM was heavily influenced by Clavell's Shogun novel. His writings show the influence and this show has clearly taken influence from the GOT HBO show. The comparisons are not ridiculous at all.
Found you through your insidious reactions and stayed through the rest!! I love how you guys react to every movie in a series you’re doing, it’s rare people get past the 2nd or 3rd movie so I appreciate it. Love you guys and your reactions, stay safe and have fun! ❤😊
Fuji is the wife. Tadayoshi is the husband.
Mother of Taiko's son was famous 3 sisters who married into Toyotomi (Taiko), Tokunaga's son (Toranaga) and Imperial house.
Mariko (daughter of Akechi who was Oda Nobunaga's General)
The younger pregnant lady is Toranaga's wife. Kiri (the older lady) is his consort (concubine, more or less). There can only be one official wife, but however many consorts a man wants. Ochiba (who said "the kingdom is up your ass" ) is the wife of the late Taiko and the mother of his heir (the young kid). She is also sister to Toranaga's daughter-in-law, who's just given birth.
Edit: The official webpage of the show says that Kiri is actually Toranaga's wife and Ochiba was Taiko's consort. Maybe I misremembered it from the book, or maybe they changed it up for the show for some reason, but there you have it.
Actually the pregnant lady and Kiri no kata were both Toranaga's consorts. His wife died long ago. Kiri no kata in fact is a very smart and important lady and in real history she was very influencial to Tokugawa (real life Toranaga). Ochiba was also the Taiko's consort and the only one with a son and the lady near him in his bed was the principal one. (I forgot her name but she is famous)
@@kansairobot2015 Oh, maybe. I remember his wife died, I just thought it's a new one. The book is so thick these details got a bit mixed up for me. Still, the website says they are both his wives for some reason.
Blackthorn said he had Letters of Marque from Holland. Letters of Marque are used to say someone is a legal privateer- a mercenary. They would say he is a hired mercenary fighting for Holland which was in the middle of a war to throw off the Catholic rule of Spain over Holland. They would mean Blackthorn and his ship should be treated like lawful combatants instead of pirates who are outlaw thieves. Of course, Holland, the Dutch, being in rebellion, the Portuguese and Spanish want to ignore the letters because that would be admitting the rebel government of Holland is a lawful government.
The show and the 1980 TV series are based on James Clavell's historical fiction novel Shogun. It's a great book.
Blackthorn was British though, he had letters of mark from Holland but he was a British sailor
@@overthewebb His nationality is irrelevant to the Letters. It was quite common for the era to have foreigner mercenaries in a country's war. The point of the Letters is that he and his crew should be treated as lawful combatants rather than outlaw pirates.
The Portuguese are keen to keep the peace with ally Spain and not recognize the Letters and thereby the Dutch government. They also don't want the Japanese thinking they aren't on the up and up about the Catholic Church and Portuguese intentions in Japan. It's not the British Queen that matters rather that Elizabeth is a Protestant Christian and thereby an illegitimate ruler in the eyes of the Catholic Church.
The book and 1980 miniseries make more of a point of that where the Priest explains Blackthorn is fighting for people in rebellion against Spain which makes Toronaga question Blackthorn.
Blackthorn: There are mitigating circustances (to Holland's rebellion)
Toronaga: There are no mitigating circustances for rebelion (against a lawful ruler)
Blackthorn: Unless you win.
Toronaga loves the answer because the thrust of the conversation is entirely in sync with Toronaga's plans to eventually become Shogun. There are no mitigating circumstances for Toronaga to break the Taiko's peace unless Toronaga wins.
@@MiLikesVids That's nice but you are wrong. The letters are very important as for the Portuguese and Spanish fuck them, that was the whole point They came from the Dutch with 5 ships and only one survived. All protestants against the Catholic Church. That is all that matters
@@MiLikesVids The story is based on a real person William Adams, I suggest you look him up
Ochiba is mother of the heir and her sister had Toronaga's grandchild. she was at his castle in Edo for the birth and was released to go back to Osaka.
Was going to comment this. Ochiba's sister is married to Toranaga's son and she was pregnant. Ochiba went to Edo (definitely wasn't a hostage. No sir, not at all) because her sister was going into labour with Toranaga's grandchild. Once the baby was born, Toranaga had to let her go, otherwise it would have been seen as a hostile act and the Regents would have had all the reason they needed to impeach Toranaga and demand he commit seppuku
Great reaction! Loving Shōgun!
19:42 - "Kulbaan na" 😆
just an absolutely fantastic show. reminds me of game of thrones with how well they built the world, the amazing script and camera work, the deep characters and their development, the plots and schemes, very well done. cant wait for episode 3
Yabushige is basically Littlefinger. Only that Toranaga isn't nearly as naive as Ned.
I'm afraid about Toranaga. According to history, he executed a lot christians in Japan from 1613 and later the religion was banned until 1800s. He is not a good man, but purely loyalty to his country. Don't forget to watch Martin Scorsese's Silence.
he is a GREAT man who brought 250 years of piece to Japan and stopped foreigners brainwashing his people.
He initiated a peace in Japan that lasted 200 years, that permitted Japan to be a develop country now.
@@kansairobot2015 true. But keeping a peace, there's always have a price.
@@wichard1994ok???? Peace >>>> price Ieyasu is one of the greatest leaders in history
@@1998rg of course he is. And also heard lions are the king of jungle. Their teeth bites hard just like what leaders do.
Writing is great.
It’s just you! 😅 There’s no English being spoken in Japan at this time. A major plot point is the fact that only the Portuguese have controlled access to Japan. The only other language the Japanese might speak or understand is Portuguese.
Yes
Ishida Mitsumari (Ishido) never wanted to be Shogun , fact that he was protector of Taiko's son.
He was a right hand man and Administrator of Taiko..
The book is loosely based on William Adams who turned up in Japan