#7 - sex appeal aside, the thing that made Seven such a hit was she fit the Spock/Data role that Voyager was missing. Her addition brought Voyager back to it's Star Trek roots. It also gave Janeway a lot to do, and showed a maternal and nurturing side of Janeway, that was also a breath of fresh air. Kudos to Ryan and Mulgrew for making that work so well on screen. (The Doctor had some "what it means to be human" exploration but he was limited as he was actually modelled after a human.)
There is also the fact that the Borg are the greatest enemy in the franchise. She could have been a scarred mess in a hessian sack and there would still be plenty of story lines to mine.
@@maninredhelmI think it was actually supposed to be Nelix... I hate Voyager ☹️ Not because the characters, actors, or idea was bad, but because the writing wasn't good. There were excellent episodes, but the whole series is like a roller coaster. "crap, Crap, Crap, CRAP, CRAP, SOMETHING goooooood! crap, Crap, CRAP..." Etc. It was like an after thought. If they hadn't flooded the airwaves with so much Trek, it could have been a great series, but the writers were overworked. It seemed like the characters weren't fully realized or consistent. It's a shame!
Ethan Philips needs contact lenses, iirc. Also said the Neelix prosthetics over his ears really muffled sounds. "So I can't see and I can't hear but, other than that, I'm having a great time!"
Consummate professional - He and Bob Picardo are hilarious, terrific actors, and just genuinely nice people. If only all famous people could be that way.
I wouldn't say this is a "secret" but the reason behind Quark and Odo's apparent "tension cooling" was due to the real friendship both Rene and Armin created while working
Garrett has said it wasn't either Kes or Harry, rather that he had been notoriously late on set and that was the major issue. He improved his reputation and the issue was never repeated.
It was finally revealed back in November that Jennifer Lien was fired for erratic behavior, which is what many had suspected. Voyager producers made up that "People Magazine choice" story to cover for her.
Garret Wang being picked for that issue of People Magazine just as the producers were contemplating his removal was definitely not simple happenstance. His agent heard of what the producers were contemplating and arranged his appearance in that article as a ploy - and it worked. BTW, in case you didn't know, a surprisingly large percentage of the articles that appear in magazines like People and Us are completely pay to play transactions, where a celebrity's agent or studio will simply pay the media company to write and publish the article that they want to see.
This is true but I think it's worth mentioning that it's a tad bit more complicated than that. Money isn't the only thing being traded. Access and relationships are part of the deal. Let's say People Magazine wants to do a piece on Patrick Stewart, just to create a scenario. Stewart's agent might then do some horse trading. So let's say this agent also represents Tim Russ. Again, just for illustrative purposes. So they might say "Okay, we'll make Patrick available but we also want Tim to appear in a feature in this calendar year." People would then decide either to go ahead and put someone on it so they can get the feature they want. Another scenario might be that the agent makes a deal to get the actor featured so the magazine maintains a good relationship with the agency, whether it's CAA or whatever, and is more likely to get access to the agency's talent or a favorable rate in the future. What you said is absolutely true, to be clear. There are just a few more facets to it that I think deserve mention
Not gonna lie, Linda Hamilton as a Starfleet captain would have been cool to see, but Mulgrew's distinct cadence really sets her apart for me. It's like having Katherine Hepburn as a captain.
Voyager was the first Star Trek show I watched and still my favourite. I've been making my way through DS9 and TNG but had never realised the Maquis didn't originate with Voyager.
11:30 Buffy, Sabrina, Xena, Sex and the City and Captain Janeway. I knew how big each one of these were in their own right but I never realised the tectonic cultural shift they represented until I heard them grouped together like this. I love learning about new perspectives, thanks!
There were SO many shows that had female leads before Voyager: Lucille Ball in her several shows. Police Woman. The Mary Tyler Moore Show, Wonder Woman, Bionic Woman, Bewitched, I Dream of Jeannie, Charlie's Angels, Murder She Wrote, Dr. Quinn, Gidget, the Flying Nun, Alice, Nancy Drew, Lavern and Shirley, the Nanny, etc., etc.
@@dpastor6631 I haven't heard of half of those and I think you're covering a substantial longer period than just "late 90s" for the shows I mentioned.
As a trekkie i love Voyager, the cast the stories as far as i'm concerned they did it perfectly. I hope de cast realizes that no matter their feeling, they produced something wonderfull.
There were SO many shows that had female leads before Voyager (from 1 year before Voyager to decades before): Lucille Ball in her several shows. Police Woman. The Mary Tyler Moore Show, Wonder Woman, Bionic Woman, Bewitched, I Dream of Jeannie, Charlie's Angels, Murder She Wrote, Dr. Quinn, Gidget, the Flying Nun, Alice, Nancy Drew, Lavern and Shirley, the Nanny, the Woman from UNCLE, etc., etc., etc. Not to mention shows where the were female co-leads were every bit as important like Hart to Hart, Lois and Clark, Moonlighting, The Avengers (the older TV Show), Mork and Mindy, the Jeffersons, Hunter, Remington Steele, Scarecrow and Mrs. King, Step by Step, etc., etc. Not to mention the many shows with irreplaceable and key female characters that are too many to mention. So, not as ground breaking as people claim. I also own several thousand movies on DVD and bluray and 4K with numerous women as the leads and co-leads in movies from the 1920's onward. Not that it wasn't great to have Janeway. Voyager is one of my wife and my's favorite Star Trek shows and Kate does a great job in the role, it's just that a lot of people today aren't as familiar with past history and have a someone slanted assumption about the past that is not always as accurate as they think.
My absolute favorite Voyager BTS secret is, as Kate put it, "(Paris) was drunk! Tuvok was naked!" when talking about those long Friday night-into-Saturday morning shoots.
According to Robbie McNeil, they were looking for a Robert Patrick McNeil like character, so he said " why not just hire me?" (I got to moderate a panel with him in '11)
He also holds that Nick Locarno and Tom Paris are fundamentally different characters. Nick Locarno can pretend to be an upstanding guy but he's a worm at heart. Tom Paris isn't textbook Star Fleet by any stretch, but he has nothing but heart and an intense desire to do the right thing.
Really? I kinda had that figured out well before it was official news, it's the same character beat per beat. Pretty mundane reason to blow your mind honestly. It always seemed pretty obvious to me.
@@DeathBYDesign666 to be fair Martin probably never saw TNG, or hated all Wesley Crusher episodes, so it was probably a harder thing to notice. I’m just kidding around Martin.
I always wondered (not enough to ever look it up, apparently) why the Tom Paris character wasn’t the Nick Locarno character from STTNG:The First Duty considering how similar their character arcs were. I ended up liking that Tom was Admiral Paris’ son.
Me too. It always felt for me that showrunners argument, that Locarno's actions made him "irredeemable" is stupid. If you could be redeemed after joining AND then betraying terrorist group, then actions from that cadet episode seems so trivial in comparison. Argument, that they would be forced to pay royalities makes more sense. It also means, there would be admiral Locarno somewhere along the way.
#1) I KNEW IT! I always knew Tom Paris was actually Locarno. #2) I've been asking that question for 25 years, WTF was Picard and Company during the Dominion War? Mapping Gaseous Anomalies while the Federation was on the verge of being overran? #3) I had heard it was Erin Gray who was on the Janeway short list, due to her time on Buck Rogers.
He had to play a role.. and he managed somehow to walk around the actual situations. Or was it indicated, that he had "smashed"(yeah dont use that word with women, its degrading) everyone? He was a strong character but a gentleman wasnt he? (did i watch another series? ben sisko, emessari.. ?)
You might want to mention how the character rights issue was due to a rule that was created after _Voyage to Babel_ happened to create a popular reoccurring character. D.C.Fontana never got royalties for that, but the rules were changed so that writers retained rights to their characters that they created. Dorothy was instrumental in shaping Star Trek to a degree that few appreciate: in this one episode, she introduced not only Sarek and Amanda, but the Andorians and the Tellurites as well! She helped shape the Vulcan culture and backstory. Hey, you should do an episode on her!
@@alphanerd7221 if it makes you feel better, the rule has recently been reversed - Melinda Snodgrass doesn't get any rights to the characters she created that were used in Star Trek: Picard.
Bless Adam for basically saying in point one "Yeah I know you know this, yeah in no way at all is this a secret... but if you've never seen another video it's kinda cool yeah?"
Unbelievably, it was a rights issue! Since the E first appeared in the films, Paramount Pictures owned the rights to it, and they didn’t want to share it with Paramount TV. (That’s why we never saw any Sovereign class ships all!)
@Pumpkin Spice I think the problem started when the film people asked for the Defiant for “First Contact” and then planned to destroy it, DS9’s production team freaked out, so they changed the script so it was “adrift but salvageable”.
@@wuhteva9805 The franchise is free to use Remans. They were in an Enterprise episode made after Star Trek: Nemesis came out. Paramount split into TV and Film companies a year after Enterprise was cancelled.
Just for the record I have been a Trekkie since September 1966 and have watched every series repeatedly, from the original to Voyager (including the animated series). I own all the movies and I have an extensive memorabilia collection. The most intriguing and fascinating part is... I am a woman.
Seven of Nine did much more than add sex appeal. Until that point, Janeway had very little pushback from anyone in the crew. There was no internal struggle after the Maquis tensions settled, and Janeway’s life on the ship seemed too simple when they weren’t fighting anyone. Seven added the necessary discord
The reason the Enterprise E wasn't featured in the Dominion war from what i read, was Starfleet didn't want to risk losing the Flagship in battle so instead it was used on diplomatic missions to gain new allies. The logic was that a Sovereign class ship would have been a lot more impressive to use to get support than an aging Excelsior class ship.
@@jamesmarshall1979 They're probably going by how every other Enterprise was considered the flagship. I think it was only mentioned for the Enterprise-D, though...
That the Enterprise-E was on diplomatic missions, with Picard as the Federation representative, during the Dominion War is featured explicitly at the beginning of “Star Trek: Insurrection”. They even were to made first contact with species which had developed warp drive only recently (a year before the mission, IIRC). Picard’s reply to LaForge questioning him about it is something like “Because of the Dominion War, the Federation Council thinks that we should get as many allies as we can.”
It is way more powerful that they didn’t. Had they done so, they could no longer serve on the same ship. Sacrificing being together was the only way they could stay together.
Beverly was originally conceived as a civilian on board, and yes, under that arrangement, they would have probably done something…..but the show’s producers realized that they didn’t have a doctor, so hence Dr. Crusher.
Ah DS9 answered that. Season 4 when Warf showed up it was mentioned tge D was destroyed. So my guess is that it was being built. So it couldn't participate at that point. The Enterprise E was active in the 2380s. Sisko ended the war" and joined the wormhole" in 2375. So it was 5 years out frome being done.
@@xethlorien4736 I was about to make the snide remark "It had a flat tire and was in the shop," but it seems I was closer to the truth than I realized.
@@xethlorien4736 I got my info from memory Alpha. Not only that but u do realize how ridiculous that is right? Star fleet a organization knowen to use ships till they break down and even then do minor refits to. Build a highly advanced star ship in one year? It is even in the lore that it takes years if not a decade to make one. Not only that but all the dates for it showing up are after 2375 so yeah. Could also be no one really thought about it or alot if retcons too js what info I found on a source every trek channel seems to use.
I hated Harry's character. Garrett did a good job with what he was given, but there was really no story arc with him. Hearing what happened to Jennifer Lien -- who could act circles around Garrett -- after she was booted from Voyager left a very sour taste for Kim's character.
Harry Kim being let go is a false flag. In his current Podcast "The Delta Flyers" on Patreon, he opens up about this and clearly says it was NEVER going to be him, and he was never approached by directors/show runners on this, it was always going to be Kes, due to Jennifer's desire to move on from the show.
Jennifer never wanted to move on. Braga wanted to put his talentless girlfriend on the show. Brags headed Voyager which struggled with bad ratings. His Enterprise did until he was replaced in season 4 by Manny Co to and ratings started going up but not fast enough.
No, but I think they were referring to the fact mentioned earlier that the DS9 first officer was meant to be Ro Laren, who was. Just a mistake in the edit, I say.
Enterprise E was dealing with the tea parties and diplomatic things that would have otherwise gone unattended which could have caused problems during the war, this is implied in Insurrection. Putting out brushfires so to say.
It's Adam Clearly. Aside from Simon Miller and Jules, he's the main dude on all "Culture" channels. "New" couldn't be more incorrect lol Edit: sry. Simon Miller is only on WhatCulture Wrestling. Never seen him on WhoCulture or TrekCulture. But then again, just noticing that I recognize you, and you were probably being sarcastic, and you got me lol.
The character was polled during the trek cons and did not recieve more than a thirty percent positive rating. I would have liked to have seen her become a Captain in mainstream trek. The character did become an Admiral in fan productions.
That “Locarno” issue could have easily worked into Voyager by hinting that Tom Paris entered the Starfleet Academy under a false identity to avoid favouritism towards an admiral’s offspring by the faculty. If done well they could‘ve pulled it off without even mentioning the name „Locarno“. But a missed opportunity is exactly that: a miss. 🤷♂️
Agree, not sure why the didn't do a tie in of some description, I like the crossover episodes makes the shows feel like they tie in as one BIG show not a series of individual ones
I still can't believe they got as far as they did into filming the first episode with Geneviève Bujold. Don't they do script reading sessions and rehearsals before filming? I guess not!
I remember when janeway would announce who she is and I thought she was saying, I’m captain captain janeway but later learned she was actually saying captain Catherine janeway lol.
@@ticketyboo2456 Great line, but, actually, Terminator 2 was a little later in her career. In fact, many who had seen her previous work were surprised by her character's physical and mental transformation for T2.
I heard it was Ronald D Moore who created Nick Lacarno, and Paramount didn't want to pay to use the Lacarno character. It's too bad since a Nick Lacarno/First Duty arc extending into Voyager would have made the character even more dynamic.
I would have liked to see Sigourny Weaver as Catherine Janeway. Someone a bit rough around the edge and seeming to be less compassionate would have been interesting. I just felt Mulgrew's soft voice was just not convincing to me as a strong Captain.
now I was a kid when I watched Star Trek: Voyager and thought kes was boring and thought 7 was really cool and I loved how smart she was. I hated Neelix but I've always loved the DR.
worf was a experienced tactical officer and has been in the badlands before. he could have volunteered for the mission (which was said to be only 2 weeks)
@@charliemckellips Especially considering that between the Enterprise D destruction and the E christening many officers like Worf had to weigh their options about new postings/promotions. I can see Worf assigned temporarily to the Voyager as a tactical specialist to help hunt down the Maquis only to be stuck with the Voyager/Maquis. He would’ve brought the ‘heat’ the network was looking for with Seven?
Voyager had way too many Klingon episodes for the Delta Quadrant as is. Adding Worf would be have been worse. Aside from running into a 70+ year old Klingon cruiser, they'd probably find another weird Klingon artifact to give Worth something Klingon to do. Then he'd meet a Klingon Borg ship, etc etc
Imagine I'd like Geneviève Bujold if I saw something she's famous for. In the Janeway scenes she shot, she just sounds less like a high-ranker giving orders than a good student showing she understands lessons. It's hard to make a case that she should have kept the role.
@@alphanerd7221 Yeah but she wanted that to be a mutual decision not something they could sue her for. She’s a good actress so my assumption is she threw the performance to get herself fired or make them thankful she quit. “A mutual decision”.
As far as crossover appeal is concerned, if I remember correctly Nicola Bryant of Doctor Who fame, and Erin Grey from Buck Rogers were in the running for Janeway as well as one of Charlie's original (and best) Angels, Kate Jackson!
Worf on Voyager would have brought in more ratings, however that might have resulted in Seven not joining cast, so it was best Worf went to DS9. Producers only wanted so many main cast.
Seven was such a good character when she was being taken seriously by the writers. I'm definitely not the first person to say this, but a lot of times it seemed like they were oblivious to how good she was, like they just accidentally added the most compelling character to the show only to squander her potential by insisting on treating her as eye candy.
'NO Doubt, the best pick for Captain Kathryn Janeway, was beyond acclaim, Kate Mulgrew 'was beyond doubt 'the best choice! Geneviève Bujold did well to step down (and 'regards for doing so). Voyager 'could NOT have existed 'without Kate Mulgrew playing 'Captain Kathryn Janeway, 'the 'series wouldn't have made it past season one without her.
I really like the Fan theory that Nick Locarno is Tom Paris and that the character wanted to hide the fact he was the son of an Admiral whilst at the academy. But then after the events in TNG. Went back to his birth name
If I'm not mistaken, the reason the Enterprise wasn't involved in the Dominion War is because it is Starfleet's flag ship and they weren't prepared to risk losing her in war.
Ha! Beltran is to continuing on Voyager as Eminem is to coming to the Grammys. Lofty demands unexpectedly get met (substantial raises as a duet with Elton John), so he did it! :-)
I never really though about how the Enterprise E was completely absent from the dominion war. There were major continuity errors involving Worf though. He was assigned to DS9 during basically all 3 TNG movies
While Jeri Ryan is a stunning woman, and I as a teenage boy loved every time she was on screen, I mostly was interested in the Borg aspect and what that brought to the show. The Borg are cool.
#7 - sex appeal aside, the thing that made Seven such a hit was she fit the Spock/Data role that Voyager was missing. Her addition brought Voyager back to it's Star Trek roots.
It also gave Janeway a lot to do, and showed a maternal and nurturing side of Janeway, that was also a breath of fresh air. Kudos to Ryan and Mulgrew for making that work so well on screen.
(The Doctor had some "what it means to be human" exploration but he was limited as he was actually modelled after a human.)
There is also the fact that the Borg are the greatest enemy in the franchise. She could have been a scarred mess in a hessian sack and there would still be plenty of story lines to mine.
But Voyager already had a Spock: Tuvok.
Didn't they literally have Tuvok and the doctor? Like, ones a vulkan, and the other was literally a holographic artificial intelligence.
@@maninredhelmI think it was actually supposed to be Nelix... I hate Voyager ☹️ Not because the characters, actors, or idea was bad, but because the writing wasn't good. There were excellent episodes, but the whole series is like a roller coaster. "crap, Crap, Crap, CRAP, CRAP, SOMETHING goooooood! crap, Crap, CRAP..." Etc. It was like an after thought. If they hadn't flooded the airwaves with so much Trek, it could have been a great series, but the writers were overworked. It seemed like the characters weren't fully realized or consistent. It's a shame!
Voyager had the best cinematography. Those shots are incredible!
Ethan Philips needs contact lenses, iirc. Also said the Neelix prosthetics over his ears really muffled sounds.
"So I can't see and I can't hear but, other than that, I'm having a great time!"
Consummate professional - He and Bob Picardo are hilarious, terrific actors, and just genuinely nice people. If only all famous people could be that way.
I wouldn't say this is a "secret" but the reason behind Quark and Odo's apparent "tension cooling" was due to the real friendship both Rene and Armin created while working
I didn’t know that - thank you!
Those two are my favorite characters in Voyager!
@@GabePuratekuta Or maybe Deep Space 9?
@GabePuratekuta that's... no that's not Voyager
I couldn’t imagine another captain on Voyager, Kate Mulgrew was amazing. Still my second favorite captain ever, just behind Picard.
Same.
Double same! 😸
Here here
In all fairness, Sisko was grounded at DS9. Kirk was a horndog.
@@dynodish Also, Sisko’s girlfriend, Kasidy Yates (Penny Johnson Jerald), is a great character/actor, both in TNG and recently in The Orville.
Garrett has said it wasn't either Kes or Harry, rather that he had been notoriously late on set and that was the major issue. He improved his reputation and the issue was never repeated.
It was finally revealed back in November that Jennifer Lien was fired for erratic behavior, which is what many had suspected. Voyager producers made up that "People Magazine choice" story to cover for her.
@@ShinSeikiEvan kes was such a poorly rewritten character
@@ShinSeikiEvan what a dumb cover story.
Was this from his podcast? Which episode?
@@ShinSeikiEvan that’s actually a pretty decent thing to do.
Garret Wang being picked for that issue of People Magazine just as the producers were contemplating his removal was definitely not simple happenstance. His agent heard of what the producers were contemplating and arranged his appearance in that article as a ploy - and it worked. BTW, in case you didn't know, a surprisingly large percentage of the articles that appear in magazines like People and Us are completely pay to play transactions, where a celebrity's agent or studio will simply pay the media company to write and publish the article that they want to see.
its the only way for most print media these days yeah
This is true but I think it's worth mentioning that it's a tad bit more complicated than that. Money isn't the only thing being traded. Access and relationships are part of the deal. Let's say People Magazine wants to do a piece on Patrick Stewart, just to create a scenario. Stewart's agent might then do some horse trading. So let's say this agent also represents Tim Russ. Again, just for illustrative purposes. So they might say "Okay, we'll make Patrick available but we also want Tim to appear in a feature in this calendar year." People would then decide either to go ahead and put someone on it so they can get the feature they want. Another scenario might be that the agent makes a deal to get the actor featured so the magazine maintains a good relationship with the agency, whether it's CAA or whatever, and is more likely to get access to the agency's talent or a favorable rate in the future. What you said is absolutely true, to be clear. There are just a few more facets to it that I think deserve mention
Tbh it's such a shame that happened because having to watch him stick around just to annoyingly flirt with Seven for no reason was tedious.
Not gonna lie, Linda Hamilton as a Starfleet captain would have been cool to see, but Mulgrew's distinct cadence really sets her apart for me. It's like having Katherine Hepburn as a captain.
Voyager was the first Star Trek show I watched and still my favourite. I've been making my way through DS9 and TNG but had never realised the Maquis didn't originate with Voyager.
11:30 Buffy, Sabrina, Xena, Sex and the City and Captain Janeway. I knew how big each one of these were in their own right but I never realised the tectonic cultural shift they represented until I heard them grouped together like this. I love learning about new perspectives, thanks!
There were SO many shows that had female leads before Voyager: Lucille Ball in her several shows. Police Woman. The Mary Tyler Moore Show, Wonder Woman, Bionic Woman, Bewitched, I Dream of Jeannie, Charlie's Angels, Murder She Wrote, Dr. Quinn, Gidget, the Flying Nun, Alice, Nancy Drew, Lavern and Shirley, the Nanny, etc., etc.
@@dpastor6631 I haven't heard of half of those and I think you're covering a substantial longer period than just "late 90s" for the shows I mentioned.
As a trekkie i love Voyager, the cast the stories as far as i'm concerned they did it perfectly. I hope de cast realizes that no matter their feeling, they produced something wonderfull.
Big respect to Robert Beltram, who managed to fail upward.
right?? trying to get fired but only getting gradually more ballin'
Try that at work yourself.
The character is my favorite besides Tuvok.
What a fvcking tool. Just quit if you don't like the job. Another rich entitled asshat.
@@davidinvenio3094 I've met him. He's not that.
Ensign Ro's move to quit was a career knockout. She would have been legendary.
There were SO many shows that had female leads before Voyager (from 1 year before Voyager to decades before): Lucille Ball in her several shows. Police Woman. The Mary Tyler Moore Show, Wonder Woman, Bionic Woman, Bewitched, I Dream of Jeannie, Charlie's Angels, Murder She Wrote, Dr. Quinn, Gidget, the Flying Nun, Alice, Nancy Drew, Lavern and Shirley, the Nanny, the Woman from UNCLE, etc., etc., etc.
Not to mention shows where the were female co-leads were every bit as important like Hart to Hart, Lois and Clark, Moonlighting, The Avengers (the older TV Show), Mork and Mindy, the Jeffersons, Hunter, Remington Steele, Scarecrow and Mrs. King, Step by Step, etc., etc.
Not to mention the many shows with irreplaceable and key female characters that are too many to mention.
So, not as ground breaking as people claim.
I also own several thousand movies on DVD and bluray and 4K with numerous women as the leads and co-leads in movies from the 1920's onward.
Not that it wasn't great to have Janeway. Voyager is one of my wife and my's favorite Star Trek shows and Kate does a great job in the role, it's just that a lot of people today aren't as familiar with past history and have a someone slanted assumption about the past that is not always as accurate as they think.
My absolute favorite Voyager BTS secret is, as Kate put it, "(Paris) was drunk! Tuvok was naked!" when talking about those long Friday night-into-Saturday morning shoots.
Yes please. More info!
Poor Ro...the absolutely most underused character that so MANY people loved. And Linda Hamilton would have been a BAD ASS Janeway.
NO FATE
According to Robbie McNeil, they were looking for a Robert Patrick McNeil like character, so he said " why not just hire me?" (I got to moderate a panel with him in '11)
He also holds that Nick Locarno and Tom Paris are fundamentally different characters. Nick Locarno can pretend to be an upstanding guy but he's a worm at heart. Tom Paris isn't textbook Star Fleet by any stretch, but he has nothing but heart and an intense desire to do the right thing.
@@kingbeauregard I mean... they say that, but it's pretty difficult to find anything to back it up in the shows.
It's cool that you got to moderate a panel with him. Gotta get the name right, though. Robert Duncan McNeill.
@@BasilOnatopp lol, sorry been so long and he did ask me to call home Robbie
A bit like when they were casting Star Trek: Enterprise, they were looking for a "Scott Bakula type actor" and he ended up with the role.
That Tom Paris was supposed to be that character from Next Gen kinda blew my mind.
Really? I kinda had that figured out well before it was official news, it's the same character beat per beat. Pretty mundane reason to blow your mind honestly. It always seemed pretty obvious to me.
@@DeathBYDesign666 to be fair Martin probably never saw TNG, or hated all Wesley Crusher episodes, so it was probably a harder thing to notice. I’m just kidding around Martin.
The Nick Licarno switch up is actually facinating - I had no idea and had long wondered why they didn't keep Paris as Nick!
I always wondered (not enough to ever look it up, apparently) why the Tom Paris character wasn’t the Nick Locarno character from STTNG:The First Duty considering how similar their character arcs were. I ended up liking that Tom was Admiral Paris’ son.
Me too. It always felt for me that showrunners argument, that Locarno's actions made him "irredeemable" is stupid. If you could be redeemed after joining AND then betraying terrorist group, then actions from that cadet episode seems so trivial in comparison. Argument, that they would be forced to pay royalities makes more sense. It also means, there would be admiral Locarno somewhere along the way.
#1) I KNEW IT! I always knew Tom Paris was actually Locarno.
#2) I've been asking that question for 25 years, WTF was Picard and Company during the Dominion War? Mapping Gaseous Anomalies while the Federation was on the verge of being overran?
#3) I had heard it was Erin Gray who was on the Janeway short list, due to her time on Buck Rogers.
"Sisko smashing every woman he ever met in The Mirror Universe"
LMAO!!
He's only following Starfleet's mandate: "To Boldly Go Where No Man Has Gone Before!"
He had to play a role.. and he managed somehow to walk around the actual situations. Or was it indicated, that he had "smashed"(yeah dont use that word with women, its degrading) everyone? He was a strong character but a gentleman wasnt he? (did i watch another series? ben sisko, emessari.. ?)
Never got why they couldn't make him a Lt. at some point. Wouldn't have changed a ton
Me too. He contributed as much as the Paris character but never got the extra pip.
They didn’t like Garrett Wang, that’s the entire reason
You might want to mention how the character rights issue was due to a rule that was created after _Voyage to Babel_ happened to create a popular reoccurring character. D.C.Fontana never got royalties for that, but the rules were changed so that writers retained rights to their characters that they created. Dorothy was instrumental in shaping Star Trek to a degree that few appreciate: in this one episode, she introduced not only Sarek and Amanda, but the Andorians and the Tellurites as well! She helped shape the Vulcan culture and backstory.
Hey, you should do an episode on her!
It's a terrible rule.
@@alphanerd7221 if it makes you feel better, the rule has recently been reversed - Melinda Snodgrass doesn't get any rights to the characters she created that were used in Star Trek: Picard.
@@ABSOLUTgarbage Good. Artists are supposed to suffer for their art, not the other way around.
I wish we had more writers like D.C. Fontana, woman was a legend.
I’ll hand it to the casting directors of Star Trek - the captains of all the shows are so iconic and it’s hard to imagine anyone else in the role.
Bless Adam for basically saying in point one "Yeah I know you know this, yeah in no way at all is this a secret... but if you've never seen another video it's kinda cool yeah?"
Robert Picardo would have smashed it as Neelix, watch his performance as the lovable alien in the 1986 movie EXPLORERS with Ethan Hawke
Also as The Cowboy in the 1987 movie Innerspace.
I've been asking the Enterprise E/Dominion War question for damn decades now!!
Unbelievably, it was a rights issue! Since the E first appeared in the films, Paramount Pictures owned the rights to it, and they didn’t want to share it with Paramount TV. (That’s why we never saw any Sovereign class ships all!)
@Pumpkin Spice I think the problem started when the film people asked for the Defiant for “First Contact” and then planned to destroy it, DS9’s production team freaked out, so they changed the script so it was “adrift but salvageable”.
@@wuhteva9805 heck they don’t even mention if Remus was destroyed!
@@wuhteva9805 The franchise is free to use Remans. They were in an Enterprise episode made after Star Trek: Nemesis came out. Paramount split into TV and Film companies a year after Enterprise was cancelled.
When I watched ds9 I was EXTREMELY disappointed that we didn't see the enterprise in the dominion war. I would look for it in almost every scene😅
THANK YOU for making an effort to find the trek-ladies! As a woman that loves everything Star trek I would love to see that. Cheers!
Just for the record I have been a Trekkie since September 1966 and have watched every series repeatedly, from the original to Voyager (including the animated series). I own all the movies and I have an extensive memorabilia collection. The most intriguing and fascinating part is... I am a woman.
Since ‘66 ? Now that’s what I call dedication!
Why is that fascinating?
Marry me.💍
What about Enterprise?
I also love to trek..since 1990 when I was 10 years old. Tng was my first and you never get over your first
Seven of Nine did much more than add sex appeal. Until that point, Janeway had very little pushback from anyone in the crew. There was no internal struggle after the Maquis tensions settled, and Janeway’s life on the ship seemed too simple when they weren’t fighting anyone. Seven added the necessary discord
Beltran had a problem everyone wants 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Ahh Ro Laren, my favorite Bajoran.
Robert Beltran would openly brag about doing a half-assed job and not even trying since he didn’t believe the writing was worth his effort. 😂
I get why he would feel that way, but it just ended up hurting himself. It made it look like he couldn't act.
What I'm more stunned about that he got the raise he kept asking for whilst women never got the same chance...
@@danielaltmann8493 Yeah but that is BS. They all got raises and he didn't get pair nearly as much as Mulgrew.
@@alphanerd7221 The Paramount folks should've snubbed his salary demands & brought Kes back into the fold.
His half-assed job was very evident. What a douchebag. Him and Wang should have partnered up in the show nobody will ever watch.
i adore voyager, yes it has the worst character arcs lol. but they have the best main story and adventures imo. and when they get home ❤️ amazing.
They missed an opportunity to do an alternate timeline episode with Genevieve Bujold.
STV's my favorite one to fall asleep to.
How dare you! HOW DARE YOU!! *_HOW DARE YOU!!!_*
😪😪😪😪😪😪😪
I didn't mean it as a diss, its the trek show I was rewatched more than the others. It's comfort food
Locarno would've been MUCH more fitting than Paris. I need to look into why the rights were up in the air.
0:49 Tea? Or teeth?
Voyager, my favorite trek series. Wish they would come out with a Blu ray set.
This and DS9 needs to be remastered!
I never thought I’d say this, but TG Adam is back…
My favorite Trek.
you have poor taste. Why not go all the way and say Enterprise?
Yay, Adam's back! It's been so long since you've done a video!
That was a smooth transition at the end👌
The reason the Enterprise E wasn't featured in the Dominion war from what i read, was Starfleet didn't want to risk losing the Flagship in battle so instead it was used on diplomatic missions to gain new allies. The logic was that a Sovereign class ship would have been a lot more impressive to use to get support than an aging Excelsior class ship.
At no point was it ever mentioned the Enterprise E was flagship. It was said to be the most advanced in fleet but not flagship
@@jamesmarshall1979 They're probably going by how every other Enterprise was considered the flagship. I think it was only mentioned for the Enterprise-D, though...
That the Enterprise-E was on diplomatic missions, with Picard as the Federation representative, during the Dominion War is featured explicitly at the beginning of “Star Trek: Insurrection”. They even were to made first contact with species which had developed warp drive only recently (a year before the mission, IIRC). Picard’s reply to LaForge questioning him about it is something like “Because of the Dominion War, the Federation Council thinks that we should get as many allies as we can.”
It's Ro Laren, not Lauren. I wouldn't have said anything but now people in the comments are misspelling.
Picard and Beverly *definitely* should have gotten busy at some point.
It is way more powerful that they didn’t. Had they done so, they could no longer serve on the same ship. Sacrificing being together was the only way they could stay together.
Beverly was originally conceived as a civilian on board, and yes, under that arrangement, they would have probably done something…..but the show’s producers realized that they didn’t have a doctor, so hence Dr. Crusher.
If you read _Dark Mirror,_ the author gave Crusher about two pages and called her a brunette.
I had NO IDEA Kate Mulgrew wasn’t the original Janeway!!!! My mind is 🤯
Great to have ya back Trekking Adam!
I'd love to know what the Enterprise E was doing during the dominion war
Probably patrolling the Neutral Zone.
Ah DS9 answered that. Season 4 when Warf showed up it was mentioned tge D was destroyed. So my guess is that it was being built. So it couldn't participate at that point. The Enterprise E was active in the 2380s. Sisko ended the war" and joined the wormhole" in 2375. So it was 5 years out frome being done.
@@Zetswe_Nox The Enterprise D was destroyed in 2371. The E was launched in 2372. It was not still being built.
@@xethlorien4736 I was about to make the snide remark "It had a flat tire and was in the shop," but it seems I was closer to the truth than I realized.
@@xethlorien4736 I got my info from memory Alpha. Not only that but u do realize how ridiculous that is right? Star fleet a organization knowen to use ships till they break down and even then do minor refits to. Build a highly advanced star ship in one year? It is even in the lore that it takes years if not a decade to make one. Not only that but all the dates for it showing up are after 2375 so yeah. Could also be no one really thought about it or alot if retcons too js what info I found on a source every trek channel seems to use.
The Worf thing was a rumor I started many, many years ago on the Gateworld forums.
Wait, they had to give a character the bullet to bring 7-of-9 in and Nelix wasnt on the list ?
I hated Harry's character. Garrett did a good job with what he was given, but there was really no story arc with him. Hearing what happened to Jennifer Lien -- who could act circles around Garrett -- after she was booted from Voyager left a very sour taste for Kim's character.
I hated Harry's character. I hated Chakotay's character. I hated Tuvok's character. I hated Neelix's character.
Harry Kim being let go is a false flag. In his current Podcast "The Delta Flyers" on Patreon, he opens up about this and clearly says it was NEVER going to be him, and he was never approached by directors/show runners on this, it was always going to be Kes, due to Jennifer's desire to move on from the show.
Jennifer never wanted to move on. Braga wanted to put his talentless girlfriend on the show. Brags headed Voyager which struggled with bad ratings. His Enterprise did until he was replaced in season 4 by Manny Co to and ratings started going up but not fast enough.
She was also shovelling mountains of cocaine up her face to the point it got plain awkward
I'm sure glad that Kate Mulgrew became Captain Janeway
Me too it should have been hers from the get go. Bujold was selected purely on paper reputation but wasn’t right for the role
@@Dancestar1981 that's so true
Garrett Whang got to make out with Jeri Ryan and Musetta Vander, well worth remaining an ensign.
😞😞😞
In my mind's eye I can see him with a big smile on his face, saying "It was a tough job, but SOMEONE had to do it."
I believe the Tom Paris is Nick Locarno theory.
Great video, really enjoyed this one.
10:02 Kira was in the Maquis?
No, but I think they were referring to the fact mentioned earlier that the DS9 first officer was meant to be Ro Laren, who was. Just a mistake in the edit, I say.
Enterprise E was dealing with the tea parties and diplomatic things that would have otherwise gone unattended which could have caused problems during the war, this is implied in Insurrection. Putting out brushfires so to say.
Who's voice is that narrating this one?
Must be a new guy.
Welcome Adam, whoever the heck you are!
No if you look at older videos he's in it
It's Adam Clearly. Aside from Simon Miller and Jules, he's the main dude on all "Culture" channels.
"New" couldn't be more incorrect lol
Edit: sry. Simon Miller is only on WhatCulture Wrestling. Never seen him on WhoCulture or TrekCulture.
But then again, just noticing that I recognize you, and you were probably being sarcastic, and you got me lol.
@Adam Clery Sarcasm doesn't carry well in text, I fear! I think it's sweet the people are springing up to support you! x
@@killwalker hehe Sorry! I've never been good with sarcasm!
I was really surprised to see him on this video. A recent TrekCulture video not done by Sean? I didn't think it was possible.
I personally wish we'd gotten Elizabeth Dennehy's Shelby as Voyager's Captain.
The character was polled during the trek cons and did not recieve more than a thirty percent positive rating. I would have liked to have seen her become a Captain in mainstream trek. The character did become an Admiral in fan productions.
You mean a Captain who won her rank on bluster and end runs--?
That “Locarno” issue could have easily worked into Voyager by hinting that Tom Paris entered the Starfleet Academy under a false identity to avoid favouritism towards an admiral’s offspring by the faculty.
If done well they could‘ve pulled it off without even mentioning the name „Locarno“.
But a missed opportunity is exactly that: a miss. 🤷♂️
Agree, not sure why the didn't do a tie in of some description, I like the crossover episodes makes the shows feel like they tie in as one BIG show not a series of individual ones
Nigel Davers or Nigel Havers???
Havers. I think he called him Thales or something. Sometimes I find Whatculture more entertaining for their basic screw ups than their content.
Good callout at the end.
I still can't believe they got as far as they did into filming the first episode with Geneviève Bujold. Don't they do script reading sessions and rehearsals before filming? I guess not!
I remember when janeway would announce who she is and I thought she was saying, I’m captain captain janeway but later learned she was actually saying captain Catherine janeway lol.
Linda Hamilton was in Beauty and the Beast TV show 1987 as a main character as Beauty
Kim Duncan I could never understand how they cast her as " Beauty ", I mean she's always been more beast...
@@ticketyboo2456 Great line, but, actually, Terminator 2 was a little later in her career. In fact, many who had seen her previous work were surprised by her character's physical and mental transformation for T2.
Please tell me someone watched Resident Alien!!
I heard it was Ronald D Moore who created Nick Lacarno, and Paramount didn't want to pay to use the Lacarno character. It's too bad since a Nick Lacarno/First Duty arc extending into Voyager would have made the character even more dynamic.
You know who would have made a perfect Janeway?
GILLIAN ANDERSON
Once you think about it, you'll never not wish that she got to be Captain Janeway.
She might've been unavailable. With another, more down-to-earth, sci-fi show on a rival network.
What is it with this guy pronouncing Os as As in names? It's Garret Wang not Wong and Ro Laren not Loren.
@Adam Clery No. He says "Wong."
Love Linda Hamiltons work YET Im glad she passed on this. Sara Connor is hailed in Syfy , as is Ripply. Their places are eleswhere 💖😁
Although, how good would Sigourney Weaver have been in Star Trek?
ADAM! Great narration my man
Linda Hamilton could have been Seska IMO.
I would have liked to see Sigourny Weaver as Catherine Janeway. Someone a bit rough around the edge and seeming to be less compassionate would have been interesting. I just felt Mulgrew's soft voice was just not convincing to me as a strong Captain.
@@gothix5868 Mulgrew has about the huskiest contralto ever on a woman.
now I was a kid when I watched Star Trek: Voyager and thought kes was boring and thought 7 was really cool and I loved how smart she was. I hated Neelix but I've always loved the DR.
I’d be curious as how the heck Worf could have ended up on Voyager.
worf was a experienced tactical officer and has been in the badlands before. he could have volunteered for the mission (which was said to be only 2 weeks)
@@ahhlewis I know that. I just meant it would have been an interesting story.
@@charliemckellips Especially considering that between the Enterprise D destruction and the E christening many officers like Worf had to weigh their options about new postings/promotions. I can see Worf assigned temporarily to the Voyager as a tactical specialist to help hunt down the Maquis only to be stuck with the Voyager/Maquis. He would’ve brought the ‘heat’ the network was looking for with Seven?
Knowing the writers, Q sticks him on Voyager to get back at the Enterprise.
Voyager had way too many Klingon episodes for the Delta Quadrant as is. Adding Worf would be have been worse. Aside from running into a 70+ year old Klingon cruiser, they'd probably find another weird Klingon artifact to give Worth something Klingon to do. Then he'd meet a Klingon Borg ship, etc etc
11:55 Nigel Havers, isn't it?
I forgot Robert Duncan McNeill was Locarno
Imagine I'd like Geneviève Bujold if I saw something she's famous for. In the Janeway scenes she shot, she just sounds less like a high-ranker giving orders than a good student showing she understands lessons.
It's hard to make a case that she should have kept the role.
I wonder how she would have reacted to being asked back to cameo as an Admiral in the final season?
Oh yeah, watching the scenes she had filmed was akin to watching paint dry.
I’ve always assumed she was intentionally throwing the performance in order to get fired without being sued.
@@sunspot42 She wasn't fired. She quit.
@@alphanerd7221 Yeah but she wanted that to be a mutual decision not something they could sue her for. She’s a good actress so my assumption is she threw the performance to get herself fired or make them thankful she quit. “A mutual decision”.
Too much commentary without enough "behind the scenes. Wish some audio was included. But I still give it a like. Thanks.
As far as crossover appeal is concerned, if I remember correctly Nicola Bryant of Doctor Who fame, and Erin Grey from Buck Rogers were in the running for Janeway as well as one of Charlie's original (and best) Angels, Kate Jackson!
Always loved Erin Grey in Buck Rogers, it's weird imagining her as Janeway... I think it's impossible to top Kate Mulgrew though.
Worf on Voyager would have brought in more ratings, however that might have resulted in Seven not joining cast, so it was best Worf went to DS9. Producers only wanted so many main cast.
Captain Kathryn Janeway Commander Chekoty Lt. Tom Paris Lt.Tuvok Lt.B'ellana Torres, Nelixx, The Doctor Seven of Nine and Finally Ensign Harry Kim
Real Good Review. Old Dude continues today to watch Star Trek from Next Generation to Enterprize. Thanks.
Seven was such a good character when she was being taken seriously by the writers. I'm definitely not the first person to say this, but a lot of times it seemed like they were oblivious to how good she was, like they just accidentally added the most compelling character to the show only to squander her potential by insisting on treating her as eye candy.
These are always awesome videos.
'NO Doubt, the best pick for Captain Kathryn Janeway, was beyond acclaim, Kate Mulgrew 'was beyond doubt 'the best choice!
Geneviève Bujold did well to step down (and 'regards for doing so).
Voyager 'could NOT have existed 'without Kate Mulgrew playing 'Captain Kathryn Janeway, 'the 'series wouldn't have made it past season one without her.
'Edited because 'UA-cam didn't print 'my "full sentences!"
Agreed
Great video I enjoyed it 👍😀
I really like the Fan theory that Nick Locarno is Tom Paris and that the character wanted to hide the fact he was the son of an Admiral whilst at the academy. But then after the events in TNG. Went back to his birth name
Lol I love how they added 10 and 5 in here after admitting they're well known and not secrets
10:06 - Kira was not a member of the Maquis. The was a member of the Bajoran Resistance. Same idea, different group. The Cardies had a lot of enemies.
4:11 Whatever, I was 3-4 when Pilot TNG came out. I practically grew up a Star Trek Fan, myself.
If I'm not mistaken, the reason the Enterprise wasn't involved in the Dominion War is because it is Starfleet's flag ship and they weren't prepared to risk losing her in war.
Adam are you trolling when you say "Ro Lauren"??
Laren lair and N laren.
Garrett WONG????
Adam what the Hell??
Ha! Beltran is to continuing on Voyager as Eminem is to coming to the Grammys. Lofty demands unexpectedly get met (substantial raises as a duet with Elton John), so he did it! :-)
Elton John has written that he wanted to work with Eminem so I don't think that was a hard sell.
Chakotay is my favorite Character in ST Voy
haha! You're so funny! :D
Another epic vid thank you trek culture
yes Jeri Ryan one of our proudest Bavarian (German) Actors who made it on TV
I never really though about how the Enterprise E was completely absent from the dominion war. There were major continuity errors involving Worf though. He was assigned to DS9 during basically all 3 TNG movies
While Jeri Ryan is a stunning woman, and I as a teenage boy loved every time she was on screen, I mostly was interested in the Borg aspect and what that brought to the show. The Borg are cool.