Real Lawyer Reacts: Take Care of Maya Trial: What is Johns Hopkins All Childrens Hospital Arguing?
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- Опубліковано 23 жов 2023
- #lawyeryouknow #takecareofmaya #netflix
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But then they billed her insurance for the same thing the hospital said she didn't have. I think that is hard to explain.
Exactly 💯!!!
This isn't how billing works. The doctors even testified to this saying they don't get to choose what the patient is billed for and usually they are billed for what is in the medical record. Simple put if a doctor diagnosis is: Unexplained Pain disorder, CRPS, factitious disorder then she could have been billed for anyone one of these. Meaning that doctor has 3 pre-diagnosis and they have not decided what the current diagnosis is because they are still conducting test.
Are you watching the trial and the relevant explanations?
@@reasonable342 I've watched the trial and the relevant explanations - they don't match. They billed for CRPS, but didn't offer Maya all the treatments required. Nor did they provided all the treatments required for the pain being all in her head. In other words the hospital's billing was highly suspect given their inability to confirm a psychological diagnosis for Maya for anything, an they certainly couldn't diagnose Munchausen by Proxy (MBP) because Maya could not have the diagnosis (she's the proxy) and the hospital isn't licensed to diagnose anyone over the age of 21 or 22 - so they couldn't diagnose mom. AND they only gave Maya 3 hours of CBT therapy....problems? Yes lots of problems
No, it's not difficult to explain and I'm pretty sure the defense has a billing expert that will attempt to do just that.
As a medical biller…sounds like the insurance companies contracted with the hospital need to initiate audits.
I would think after this case they will be compelled to.
Hell yea. Sounds like ins fraud.
Reminds me of y i got out of the medical profession.
Previously..really pissed me off she looked like a total ass.
Insurance payers have routine ongoing audits and, their auditors can get bonuses / commission for how much money they recoup (incentive?). If there was any fraud, it would have been identified and dealt with long, long ago. 🙄
@@suezmac3803 It reminds me of how coved death's were faked & jacked up to induce fear & make more free Gov. money! What else would one expect from the 5 billion in fruad fines cartel?
Respect & honesty? I don't think so!!! (We get what we deserve!)
Peter I want to say this as someone that is in chronic pain and it took years to get a diagnosis you don't know how a person who has repeatedly received false documentation and been accused of it being mental, instead of actual pain that you're feeling throughout your body the disease that Maya has been treated for is one of the most painful conditions imaginable. When she said it's a lie my life is a lie she was questioning herself because no one was believing what she and her mother had told them. This nurse , picks and chooses what she wants to document I do not believe a word coming out of her mouth. As a mother and a person that lives with chronic pain I can attest the many doctors that I saw until I finally found someone who diagnosed me properly and treated me properly with the correct medications so when people say it's all in their head it is it's throughout her body
Same thing I picked up on
Agree with you.
There is no difference in the feeling of chronic pain and acute pain. Neuropathic pain is a whole different ball game. The only experience I have with this is a severe burn on the top of my foot where the nerve endings were healing and the skin was not Someone walking through the room and disturbing the air was horribly painful. I was treated with narcotics because the skin would and did heal a few weeks. You cannot treat non terminal children or adult pain with long term narcotics because unless you are very old or dying the long term effects are incapacitating and many are permanent.
It took twenty years for my diagnosis. I also deal with chronic pain that is relentless. My son was found to have the same genetic disorder I have. The difference in how he was treated compared to me was crazy. The medical professionals who he was referred to by his GP immediately seem to not believe him and assumed he was making shit up. That’s when I had to start going to appointments with him (he is a adult). It’s degrading to him and frustrating for me. But once I say I also deal with same genetic illness they treat him better. It’s so unnecessary and just wrong!!!
It’s our mind that controls our body.
First they say her mother is doing this to her and then they say this ten year old girl is faking it and lying. Jury so far isn’t believing the hospital. In my opinion.
I haven't heard any witness testify they believe M was faking or lying. They acknowledge Maya felt pain, but they didn't conclude why she had pain. I could be wrong but I don't recall anyone saying they thought she was faking or lying.
Conversation disorder is the child lying. Munchousing by proxy is something JHACH couldn't possibly diagnose Mayas mother with because she wasn't being diagnosed or treated
@@kathleenr9109 They did think that. They referred to her pain as her "charade". There are several employee texts confirming this.
The Dr. is correct about the billing. My dad was once billed for Birth Control Pills while he was in the hospital. They refused to remove the charge until he contacted his Congressman to complain. They just bill for whatever they want, as most people just let the insurance deal with it and don't pay attention.
Yep! I had a baby in 2022, they billed the insurance for my husband's nursery stay. I caught and called the insurance to ask what was going on. They told me that because my husband didn't meet the age requirement for the nursery stay, insurance was only going to pay 80%🤔... Makes no sense. After much back and forth the hospital refunded the fee on my husband and billed under my baby, and tada- bills gets paid 100%.
I had complications 3 days after female plumbing surgery went to ER. Sent home. Had to go back to ER next day. I got billed for 2 pregnancy tests and they never took urine or blood to even test. I also had had a hysterectomy at that hospital 3 years earlier. No uterus, no pregnancy. Also did not remove charges.
I am happy your dad couldn't get pregnant in the hospital ..lol
My BC pills were $12 mo - even w/out ins. Crazy they wouldn't refund BC chrg'd to a grown man! Awesome your congressman took action on such a minute charge & amt tho! Hopefully, they didn't actually administer the pills to your dad!😬😄
Insane. And INFURIATING!@@emmamadaras4610
Literally every condition actually has a psych component that affects a patients presentation.
Actually the psych component usually slows down treatment. My daughter had blisters as a reaction to a prescribed medicine and they just couldn't take my information. They asked her about her sex life & when they finally treated her they gave her temporary meds and sent her home with useless medicine. These days they consider every parent as an antagonizer instead of a partner.
Yes they couldn’t take your information because they knew that the medication caused the blisters, And they always try to blame the patient instead of blaming the medication like Tinnitus isn’t caused By Gabapentin. Or the stress from discontinuing the use of Gabapentin.
Absolutely true
@@happydaysrcoming8792 You speak the truth about Gabapentin you stopped taking that you have serious problems thank you for sharing your comment.
I just remembered listening to this case that I had meningitis back in the 80s as a young adult and had to go to 3 hospitals before the 3rd one instinctively knew to test for meningitis based on my description of my symptoms. The first two hospitals thought I was a drug addict or something because I was in painter's clothes upon my urgent arrival and because my description of my symptoms was about and around the head--well they thought I was nuts and on drugs.
I ended up hospitalized for 10 days at Mass General Hospital in Boston and survived my meningitis thanks to a hospital that listened to their patient. Yeah, I can emphasize with Maya as her situation, condition, and treatment was far worse in not being believed.
I relate to how hard it is to get a doctor to truly to listen. I was misdiagnosed and kept my pursuit to find the issue. Every dr wrote me a prescription for an opioid and anxiety. I said that’s not what I want and what I need. When I found my dr thanks to a front page newspaper article on how he was treating fibro/cfs, he truly listened and was disturbed that they over exposed me to radiation and prescribed opioids. He said he was going to get me well and he did. Alternative treatments is what made the difference.
One time I went to the ER after a horrible radiculopathy episode taken by ambulance, they gave me an IV med; I began to panic as it ran through my veins like ice; what did you give me!? I ask. They had givens me fentanyl and said I was reacting and then had to counter it.
When I found my dr who treated me right, he also was upset bc not one person reading CT scans could tell me my ribs were 6” from my spine. He was disgusted they didn’t recommend or do anything about that. Any how, I kept learning one thing after another.
I had a friend with a history of drug abuse. At 21, she started going to hospitals for unexplainable pain and they all turned her away for 2 years thinking she was drug seeking. At age 23, she was finally diagnosed with leukemia and died later that year. If the earlier doctors hadn’t dismissed her as a drug seeker, she may have been able to be treated for her leukemia earlier and there’s a chance she would still be with us.
Maya was faking it tho
listen. I took my child three times to CHILDRENS HOSPITAL IN MIAMI AND they never checked that she was lactose intorelant / three times hospitalized. / they were so stupid ! so I took her to JOE DI MAGGIO AND that was the reason she was sick. DUH!!!!! SOMETHING so simple!!!! so I do relate to this / is crazy / THE HOSPITALS THE NURSES. JUST THE SYSTEM... crazy!!!!!!!!
DOCTORS KILL! ALWAYS ASK AND ASK AGAIN AND DO RESEARCH.. THEY give anything to get paid! 1 out of 20 can be a good doctor. @@jillsmith9832
I am a nurse and work around plenty of nurses who confabulate and take pt's quotes and embellish or at times don't even have histories right...some...many are actually pretty vindictive and judgmental...I am standing up for pts all the time, so I honestly have a lot of doubt in this RN's testimony...
Thank you, you are one of the good ones!
Fellow nurse here. I totally agree. Did not find this CC nurse's testimony credible at all. So cold I shudder to think she is now a family NP.
Agree!! I am a nurse too!!
Retired nurse here. I completely agree. Some nurses come in with own biases, mood swings, etc. Getting a report from previous nurse, such as "I think Mom has Munchausen" could very well set the mood of the oncoming nurse and alter the care. We are not allowed to diagnose and should never express an opinion as fact.
I sure hope you're reporting each and every one of these nurses
I thought the supposed star witness was extremely arrogant and I believe they did a great job on cross. I think the fact that the jury had over twenty pages of questions says it all
I believe that the comment about being a lie could have been a response to the doctor telling her that she wasn’t in the pain she was and didn’t need the medication. If someone told me I wasn’t in the pain I was in, I would very much fight back with “oh ok so I don’t know my own pain” then sarcastically say “my life is a lie then huh?”
Chronic pain sufferers that I know describe hiding their pain from others because they're tired of everyone reacting, getting depressed, etc. They have to live the lie of acting fine and normal when they are in severe pain.
@@gorkyd7912this is similar to living with chronic depression. Imagine every time someone asks "how are you" responding with "I've wanted to die all week".
Oh I forgot…this doctor also said he can diagnose CRPS via phone. I almost fell off my chair when he said that!
Right? In that case if her parents called, he would have diagnosed her with CRPS
Yes he said 5 Dr’s were wrong and Drs are wrong sometimes but he never admitted to being wrong, he is the anesthesiologist, is he supposed to diagnose? Isn’t he only supposed to treat the condition? One nurse handed her the cream to put it in herself, I couldn’t tell if Maya had gloves on she handed her the cream without gloves on, after Maya put the cream on then the nurse put gloves on to take the container! If I were a nurse i would have checked her to see if she had lesions even Maya couldn’t see herself! I saw so many things they should not have done, her ankles were bruised, her mother was right her mother is an RN with a few degrees, her mother documented everything and felt so defeated she took her own life just so her daughter could come home! They took away her rosary they promised to take her to a church outside of the hospital if she did good in PT but then said she didn’t do well so no church, they wouldn’t even let her priest in except for 2 times, she should have been transferred to a hospital that knows about CRPS they really had no business keeping her as a patient since they don’t even know about the disease, they saw Maya as $ signs! Why did they keep her there for 89 days? They said she did better after her mom left but could it because she saw her Mom and it lifted her spirits to try harder to participate?
The problem is they never believed her. Therefore, they caused a suspicion which wasn’t fair to the mom and Maya. It was already documented that she had the issue by another doctor.
I think the dx was given by 2 DRS! 1 in Mexico, 1 in the US
Exactly… never let an ICU treat chronic pain. Even in the past 5 - 10 years of better underlying of chronic pain the nurses and physicians and therapists have no understanding of the issues. It’s why chronic pain has become a whole separate “specialty” within medicine
Can you imagine - being told you are making it up - over and over again . . and you don't have your family there to help you through it! Breaks my heart....regardless of they agreed with her treatment or not . . . her treatment was horrific especially in through the eyes of a 10 yr old! SMH
I think same as you
Mom felt that behavior from the beginning and she had have two battles
Not properly diagnosed - in fact, MISdiagnosed. A good MD will not blindly trust another diagnosis, esp if symptoms don’t add up. Too dangerous.
Pharmacist here. All I can say is that the medical billing issue...I've always felt a certain type of way about medical billing. With my experience, the inconsistency in medical billing is all over the place. For example, as a pharmacist I am always looking for an ICD10 code on the prescription which is basically just a bunch of made up numbers that represent a certain "diagnosis". So that I know that the prescriber is prescribing that medication for the right medical reason. A set of pharmacist checks, if you will. But every prescriber and/or prescriber office does their own thing their own way. The inconsistency and lack of care for accuracy with medical billing has always been strange and concerning to me.. don't know if that helps at all lol
Yes!!!! Thank you for saying!!! I was unsure of my opinion but you validated it lol. I'm an RN who also has been through the dilemma of we need a diagnosis for this med.....and I'm here to say the doctor doesn't always give an answer lol. So some nurse may have found a box to check ....ugh ICD codes .
I am going to college for Medical Billing and Insurance Coding, So what are you saying about us ? What type of mistakes are they making ? What exact type of mistakes are the Medical Billers making exactly? And isn’t it the doctor who decides what dx to give to the patient. And are you saying you feel the medication has to match up to the dx the doctor is prescribing it for?
Hopefully you aren’t as rude and judgmental as the pharmacists I’ve had to deal with concerning my medication.
I’ll call the insurance company in a New York second! I am tired of paying for mistakes.
She may though have been treated for CRPS without the hospital necessarily believing it. I mean CRPS treatment is just CBT, physio, OT, and a range of other therapies. With the lack of a better diagnosis they probably treated her based on her symptoms even if there was a psychological component.
Everyone who testifies for the hospital seem hostile and cold. I'm getting the vibes that Maya probably felt, and she was alone . Maybe she meant everyone around me is lying, (the hospital), irresponsibly telling the girl her mothers in a Mental Institiution. My p.o.v. ...
That's what I understood it to be too. She probably felt all the doctors and staff were lying to her. Why is it automatically assumed that Maya is saying her mom is lying?
I agree with you. 💯💯
Yes! It was a cry for help from the doctors/staff saying she's not in pain it's not real and you never listened to her and invalidated her continually.
@@LaceyLace_this all happened the wrong way. This is all WRONG. And we needs to give these children and parents a voice, instead of making rash, quick, irresponsible decisions, like the hospital did. Sad... 😢
You are 💯percent correct, I only hope that jury sees it too.
Also, did anyone at that hospital actually sit this family down and explain to them- we think what you have been doing is dangerous, we also think she may be misdiagnosed. Let us explain and help you! Or did they just have this preconceived notion, kick her parents out, call CPS and say we aren’t doing what you want
The hospital is trying to say they did but the mother wasn’t willing to listen and was demanding ketamine.. I do believe that beata didn’t back down and then they send in CPS
Beata was abusive. Rude. Demanding. Maya was spitting at them. Calling doctors a f ing bitch.
How easy would it be to try to get Beata to accept she was wrong.
They tried many times. They wanted to work with Beata and do less invasive treatments that are successful in children with CRPS. But Beata refused, she only wanted ketamine comas as Maya’s regular treatment.
@@OmEvul1415 but hadn't they tried all of the less invasive treatments and it didn't work? I just can't make up my mind about this case at all.
@@Jessica-hk5qt At the same time, another nurse from JH said that she was a very kind little girl. Their own witnesses are contradictory, so I just can't trust them. Especially when they lie about how Maya presented after we've seen photos of Maya that have lesions or discoloration while at the hospital. Also, was it conversion disorder or MBP? Those can't be occurring at the same timen so what are they claiming happened besides "not CRPS"?
If it's conversion disorder, you need to treat her with more therapy than they did, and the parents aren't the problem. If it's MBP, then they shouldn't have been locking Maya in a room or treating her so poorly. Many victims of MBP are scared, confused, and genuinely ill. They didn't treat her like a victim by forcing her to pee on herself.
I watched both those witnesses live and the chat overwhelmingly reacted negatively....esp. the second nurse who embellished the word " previously " was RIDICULOUS....she was so biased the judge saw thru it.
That is not a fair characterization of staff psychologist's position. The outrage mob agrees with you? That is nothing to be proud of. The psychologist did her job well and she met professional standards for clinical psychology.
I really give this judge credit. He just swooped right in.
you can't be rational if you think the nurse was lying about her own notes, if she always uses the word previously to mean a different hospital then that makes sense. You don't know her practices and how she uses the word do you? No you don't so why are you so confident, I guess you are just biased.
No she knew what she meant when she wrote that and she was baffled they were trying to manipulate her note to insinuate Maya was a victim of sexual assault. My own daughter has said she was uncomfy when her pediatrician had to look at her privates. Any 10 year old anywhere would say that. Does that mean she was sexually assaulted? No. If this psychologist had heard anything concerning she would have reported and she’s insulted at the insinuation otherwise.
@@kevinhornbuckleSo presuming and filling in the blanks is doing your job well.
There needed to be more questions asked after Maya gave her that information,she did nothing and just filled in the blanks.
That is outrageous.
The big question that needs to be asked is how many children has she done this too.
Are there more children that have confided in her and shes just brushed it off and presumed and filled in the blanked to what she thinks.
I learned last night (well it was an article) that DCF a closed the case after first call, but SS had the hospital call back and coached them on what to say and then the case was reopened.
That would explain why she settled her lawsuit.
I absolutely believe that. That would explain alot
Wow that is so sad
SS is a horrible person!
TY!
This doctor did a medical records review. He never met Maya let alone examined her. Knowingly submitting the wrong ICD codes is considered insurance fraud.
This.
It's fraudulent on several levels, for good reason, if they're treating for something other than what's being billed.
He was so familiar with her case, he referred to her as Hannah several times.
@@PhoenixRisen63 Fruad, is the mothers milk, to the The 5 billion in fruad fines, Big Pharma's! Every psychopath should trust that fraudulent, leader in cause of death "medicine"!
Satan woulden't have it any other way, would he?
happens all the time.
As a clinical Registered Dietitian who spent 15 yrs working in hospital, I can tell you absolutely that this is the way medical billing works. It. Is. A. Sham. It benefits the insurance companies 💯.
The hospital staff has such a negative vibe. I feel for Beata and what she must have felt. A lot of the physicians also seemed to have dropped the ball, including the therapist that never asked where “previously” was. Isn’t that sort of statement coming from a child something you would ask follow up questions for? I just can’t seem to keep an open mind when I see how unorganized and cold this hospitals vibe was ☹️☹️☹️☹️
They are literally a gang of thugs.
I mean obviously there was something off with Beata as she took her own life. A healthy minded person would never do that.
At this point, because the hospital billed for CRPS - the jurors are going have a hard time siding with the hospital.
I hope you are right. I want Maya to win. If the hospital had a camera on her why did they not see her scratching herself. Because she did not self inflict or else they would have evidence on camera.
@dbar1 Yes the hospital did many things wrong but that's for another trial. The task is were they responsible for Mother's death? I say no to that. Mother was caught stealing Ketamib from the hospital she worked at. There was to be a law suit against Mother for stealing. This caused Mother to commit suicide.
@@cheri7054 oh wow - that’s interesting. That puts a whole new light onto things. Thanks for the info.
@@dbar1 Nobodies talking about it cuz the hospital THE Mother at dropped the suit due to her passing
@@cheri7054 how do you do that?
Wait so when maya is distracted from her pain, she’s faking? But when they teach her to distract herself from pain using “CBT” then treatment is working?? Keeping in mind they conducted THREE hours of CBT… cmon man…
Exactly they can’t make up their mind 😢
If you have enough pain to need Ketamine you can not be distracted! If you can be distracted, you don't need medication that is only given to dying people.
@@j.artiste8596 How silly for you to trust our 5 billion in fruad fines pharma's, with that, "only given to dying people". Do you realize how many people died from fraudulent pharma's war on safe & effective Ivermectin & HCQ? i.e. a question you can't answer, can you!
@@j.artiste8596 Spoken like someone who has no idea what they're talking about.
hey personally many many of us just hold the pain in & work at trying to move through each day without showing it as much as we can manage
The former nurse that said most kids don't ask for sedation, to back up with what lawyer you know said, that is most kids, but kids that go through treatment act differently.
Just by her mannerisms she gives off the same vibes as all of the other medical staff. They had a preconceived notion and bullied that poor family.
My step daughter at 7 could tell you every medication by name,dosage,time taken and why she took it.
She had severe cerebral palsy.
Hospitals and medications and operations took up most of her life.
It's called learning a child what their condition is and how to look after it.
Beata was a nurse Maya was intelligent for her age of course Maya would know things other children may not.
This child had a nurse mom who used proper terminology for her medications. I don't see anything inappropriate here. She emulated her mom.
Maya saying her whole life is a lie totally benefits the plaintiffs IMO. Maya is saying that because no one believes that she’s sick, everyone thinks she’s lying
That’s if this nurse is telling the truth. I am not sure this nurse is telling the truth. She remember some things very clearly and other things she can’t Rembrandt at all.
That's how I interpret her statement too
Yep and it could even be as simple as in relation to the donut too 🍩…
Example
Nurse A- you can have a donut after X
Mya to Nurse B- can I have a donut now?
Nurse B- oh sorry Mya, no donuts right now
Mya- everything’s a lie! *in dramatic fashion* My entire life is a LIE!
Maia has been through hell with them where there is every type of abuse on a child mental abuse sexual abuse. The trial of battery influenced by wholeness to a child. It’s so sad that it ripped my heart out.
Wow. So many people are mind readers and know better what Maya was thinking than the people who saw her frequently.
My favorite question from jury was did you see the pic of her blue leg??? No he did not. Ok incompetent Dr disregard testimony!
I thought it was funny when this doctor spoke about how Maya’s doctors neglected to determine if there is temperature difference in extremities and the degree of pain, however Dr Kirkpatrick offered to show the tools he uses to determine the degree of pain through neuro testing with the patient blindfolded so they can’t see results, as well as another tool he used for the degree of temperature change in the extremities. I hope the jury is catching all these points.
They kept her at the hospital before the court order was ordered!
That’s the pre-cursor to this whole lawsuit imo…
They had absolutely no right, they made threats to both J and B of *arrest* if they left AMA, yet, thus far, anyone whom *both* the plaintiffs *or* the defense call and question in regards to leaving *prior* to shelter order, *every last one of them* will state *”well, they never asked me to leave.”*
Or a similar phrase…
🤔….yet here we are…amidst this trial…do you honestly think, if anyone the aforementioned were to be asked, pointblank, *do you think they wanted to take Maya out of JHACH?*
Would their answer really be *no?* ….under oath?? 😳
I feel so much for this family. My mum was falsely accused of MBP and I was trapped in hospital for 17 months including 5 months in a psych facility.
❤
Omg❤❤
I am so sorry that happened to you and your Mom.
What is MBP?
@@happydaysrcoming8792 munchausen by proxy... its what dfs and the hospital accuse mayas mom of doing. I disagree personally.
The problem though is that the hospital didn’t report it right away.. they started doing DCF’s job of investigating BEFORE there was any order from DCF … that’s a problem
They have to investigate before reporting! It takes time
@@JC-ry6de you are right, I was trying to say that the hospital needed time before having a conclusion, it wasn't that easy...
There should be clear MD progress notes if they exculuded CRPS from her diagnosis profile. This seems more like a CYA argument than a clear medical diagnosis from the treating providers
Bingo!
Did anyone pick up on the jury's dislike of the use of "ketamine girl"
I think she meant: everybody keeps telling her she's making it up, and she's not in pain and her symptoms don't exist.
To date watching all the testimonies/ arguments
I think the D.C.F.
should Not have been involved, this was all major major disputes between medics about diagnoses and treatment, the patient and family were completely caught up in the centre of very different opinions on the medical issues. Tragically, All leading to Beata suffering a complete breakdown.
You have not been paying attention to the evidence. Beata, Maya's mother, intentionally misled multiple docs and hospitals about her medical history and symptom presentation. That is not "major disputes...about diagnoses." That is fraud.
Bummed I missed the live, but I just wanted to say...
Maya's medical story parallels my own experiences so much that this case really has me torn.
I was born with Cystic Fibrosis so I have lived my whole life goin in and out of the hospital, and because of that, at a very young age I learned different verbiage (like Peter mentioned).
I also learned what it meant to be an advocate for myself in my medical care, and how I had to speak and act to be a effective advocate for myself. unfortunately, anytime I encountered a doctor or a nurse who didn't know me, they would not listen to me. Often times, when a doctor didn't specialize in my disease, both me and my mom were ignored until a specialist got involved (and there were not many CF specialists at the time).
During one hospital stay, I was accused of asking for Benadryl "too often", or in doses they perceived to be too high. It got to the point that I went into anaphylaxis due to them depriving me of Benadryl prior to an IV infusion... They had to call a code blue. I passed out only to wake up in the ICU with my mom by my side and in front of the doctor she said, "maybe now you will listen to her".
I want to be objective, and err on the side of the defense because that is how our justice system works, but this is truly the first case where I don't feel like I could be an unbiased juror. It makes me actually rageful to listen to the defense witnesses speak because I have lived my life on a very similar medical rollercoaster as Maya. She is so strong to be going through this trial.
Very well said and my daughter had very similar experience. The hospital noting your statements, to use against you in court... In your worst of times... Is cruel in itself imo. It definitely makes me not want to communicate with them really. Actually, I would prefer to never get "treated" if possible. We need the time, compassion and patient respect back in healthcare.
Bunny Love (I love that name). I’m really sorry you had to go through that code blue incident. That must have been really scary.
I never really look at the chat to much before because I’m concentrating what is being said. Its a smorgasbord.
I hope you are doing well. The emotion that is coming out is fine. I think no matter what the case may bring I would hope it brings some changes. Much love to you. ❤️
Yes, well said. I was diagnosed with juvenile rheumatoid arthritis but only after years of pain and accusations from medical professionals.. I'm now in my 60s, so much has changed. What they said they are certain about, have medical evidence about now is frequently opposite of what they said 20 yrs ago.
Finally I worked in the medical field for years. There are more arrogant, snooty people in medicine than any other field, the more years in school, they more arrogance and superiority they feel.
First off, I am sorry for what you have endured.
I could go on and on why I am biased too toward the plaintiffs. I have endured things personally and with my children that makes me think our USA medical system needs an overhaul on manners, compassion and listening ears.
Well because the US is such a sue happy place its common practice to document what people say. That's not limited to parents and patients.
If I report something to a physician and I dont get any new orders, I'm documenting everything we discussed.
If a parent tells me they beat the brakes off their kid and they don't care ( true story) im documenting that.
Also true story i had a family that was going to foster/ adopt a biracial baby. I was explaining what Mongolian spots are. The mom had a real issue that the baby was biracial and made a very derogatory statement. You bet I documented that AND contacted the social worker and my manager. It would not have been fair to that baby to shrug my shoulders and not say or document anything.
As a physician, just want to add that billing and coding is done by completely separate ppl who are not involved clinically and does not have clinical knowledge of a diagnosis. Also standard of billing for a possible diagnosis is different.
That’s why the hospital in general is being sued, not just the doctors.
The part that baffles me the most is the fact that JHACH continues to claim that Maya had fictious disorder and Beata had MBP and yet they still billed Maya’s health insurance for CRPS for the months she was held there away from her family. Both can’t be true. 🤷🏼♀️ Thank you Peter for continuing to cover this case when you are able to.
I think the mom had a few psych evals that showed she did not have MBP. Yet, no one is talking about that.
I agree! Is that not insurance fraud?
how does something so obvious baffle you? You think the hospital is not going to bill to treat something they think is made up? What do you think every hospital does all day?
@@tjtennisicmroll2k Since JHACH hospital thought Maya had conversion disorder, they should have been billing her insurance for that instead of CRPS.
@@tjtennisicmroll2k Just look at all the fraudulent Co V 19 deaths, fraudulent hospitals billed Gov. for!
I had a daughter that was sick for many years starting at age 4, because she was seen several times a week for years she developed a very high medical vocabulary. I can’t imagine being treated like Maya’s parents were treated, parents are very stressed when they have a child with an Illness that’s hard to diagnose, which my daughter also experienced. IMO the hospital was totally in the wrong. Prayers for Maya’s future.
The jury asked him more questions than the lawyers did.
True but we should not forget that is a huge case lots of evidences so complicated so we have to give the lawyers some credits .love the jury lots of smarts questions .
Along with lots of ridiculous questions
These jurors don’t miss a step. They are so bright. It will be an interesting result which jurors get to vote on the result.
Hi Peter I found your channel during the J D case and now Maya’s case, I hope you cover the Idaho 4 case if it allows cameras in as you are very easy to understand and you are not biased, thank you for all your hard work on these cases 🤞🤞🤞🤞
My daughter has a heart condition and is a ‘frequent flyer’ at RCH. When she was 9yrs old she pretty much discharged herself 1 night after surgery, she was meant to stay min 3 nights!! She still had drainage tubes etc and could barely move when the nurse came in, my daughter was struggling to put slippers on & the nurse asked what she was doing. My daughter said ‘I’m going home’ back and forth with my 9yo not budging! The nurse said well we need to get surgeon and cardiologist. My 9yo convinced 3 senior cardiologists to let her go home!! Kids that have been in hospitals lots can be very mature in some aspects and age appropriate in others.
I can't believe they didn't discuss that doctor looking at her genitalia and didn't document it and have a nurse in the room before hand !
The doctor didn't see genitalia unless she pulled her pants off and opened her knees. Checking for Tanner sign is just checking for public hair to see if she entered puberty.
@@sharynkoren2054sorry but a male doctor is not allowed to check a little girls genitalia alone. Period.
@@boomds5602 any doctor needs to be accompanied by another healthcare professional to protect him from allegations by a patient
@@boomds5602 This is not a good hill to die on.
@sharynkoren2054 Why did the doctor stare at her private parts so long?
Whitney was great on cross-examination today!
So they can't comprehend that a ten year old child might complain of pain "everywhere" simply out of pain, frustration, and being overwhelmed?
Did she say that repeatedly or only on one or a few occasions? Maybe I missed it?
Kel, I agree , a ten year old doesn't have a frame of reference,doesn't care how the adults around her are looking to further a existing presumption (MBP) She just knows that the family she knows and loves are not being permitted to be the supportive loving family she has always had. My life is a lie could mean anything.
Actually, the hospital staff did understand this etiology of her pain presentation. Which is why they recommended a psychology consult, which the mother resisted.
Agreed. I'm also curious about pain referral in children. Often times if one area of my body is lots of pain that I can't relieve, I can start to feel pain in many other parts of my body. It could only be because the way I hold my body when it's hurting strains other parts which cramp because of the uncomfortable angles, but pain can refer to other parts of our body. I still lack clarity about what pain really is in CRPS - and the hospital doctors don't seem particularly good and explaining the difference between perception and reality with pain. It's just seems evasive.
The defense Witnesses didn't help them at all. The doctor they had today was arrogant and came across was better than anybody
@@rosannelazuka2640 Agreed. He was better qualified and more persuasive than any of ketamine girl's paid actors.
I have been watching this channel for a while now and this is the first live i've been able to make! All of the defense's healthcare workers had condescending tones likes they still don't believe that patient's symptoms are real- I'm sure the jury picks up on it.
All patients want is respect and dignity especially for a child.
The hospital's healthcare professionals have testified that they believed that Maya believed she has a physical cause of her pain. That is empathy, not cruelty.
Since they were all the initial treaters, with first hand accounts by doctors and nurses - and they say she didn't believe them that is not good for the plaintiff haha. You are assuming people won't believe all these drs who are also witnesses to her during that time.
You are also assuming that everyone accepts she has crps, the evidence is showing she presented very inconsistently and this is backed up by video.
I dont think she had or has crps
It’s because they know to this day that she doesn’t actually have CRPS. And they’re correct. They saved her life.
@@embeth446 Exactly! And look at how they are being derided.
The hospital is guilty as hell!
Interesting how she doesn’t think the kid at 10 is not old enough to ask for “sedation” but thinks she’s old enough to say “my life is a lie”.
Actually, it makes sense if you know child psychology. Kids say the darndest things. Maya did not ask for sedation. She demanded ketamine push. As for her existential reflection, the truth manifests in the verbalizations of children, as any parent or teacher will tell you. It is remarkable, as if they cannot help it. Thankfully, there is a natural developmental trend against becoming a sociopath. And for accuracy, the nurse said that Maya said, "This is all a lie. My life is a lie."
That’s not what she said at all. She said it was shocking to hear a child scream for sedation and also to hear a child say my life is a lie. She was shocked by it. Appropriately so.
this comment clearly missed the point. Both were weird things to say for a 10 year old, that is why she wrote them both down because it was strange.
@CH-px1fw I agree; strange. Peter, the 3rd, of potentially any number of interpretations, of "my life is a lie" etc. is, that "I cannot believe this is happening to me"; "this has got to be all a "bad dream'" (type of scenario); "why me"? type of pleading. I don't see it as just the nurse is lying about something or she's not (2 choices). Children who have suffered a lifetime of pain, hospitalizations and medical interventions will have a whole different vocabulary than a child who hasn't.
@@carolcarol3938 so will kids who are dug addicts, and I don’t say that in a derogatory way toward Maya. Her mother turned her into an addict. She was at the lowest point in her 10 year old life in that PICU, malnourished, drug tolerant and dependent, muscles wasting, immobile, etc and those doctors forced her into detox and saved her life.
The thing that boils my blood is that the parents didn't come up with the diagnosis or treatment. The mom was going along with a treatment prescribed by 2 doctors that she, and the docs, felt caused her to improve. And this follows years (not sure how long it had gone on) of diagnoses and treatments that failed. It just seems to me that the parents are being blamed when they were only following doctor prescribed treatment. And i believe it was the docs who told the parents about the treatment going on in Mexico. Also, were the docs who diagnosed Maya and prescribed the treatment experts? I don't remember, but i thought they were.
Hospitals don’t like it when non-treating doctors interfere . Also families . Very complicated ! Mother had mental deficiencies based on her outcome of her own demise . Why is miss Maya doing so well now?? SMH
And the mom was told the condition could become permanent of not treated properly to get the nerve interactions to calm down. Mom was terrified if Maya didn't get the proper treatments she would never get well.
@@frsmith5069The condition can flare up either way. It can't be cured. Only put in remission trough fysiotherapy. The hard drugs could have killed her though.
5 independent dr, including one the kowalskis went to after beata died in RI all diagnosed CRPS. I’ll leave this here for you guys to mull over
And yet hilariously they are arguing she doesnt have it. truly a clown fiesta. @@blisslam8797
For me the smoking gun is they billed it as crps. They can't have it both ways.
Bam! Yes!! Absolutely!!
She had multiple doctors diagnosed her and treated her for CRPS so how is it the moms fault?
also the forensic psych eval cleared her for MBP but the hospital won't let that in, hiding behind their magic chapter 39
Because when her mom is anywhere near Mya becomes a drama queen so then they think Beata is enabling her and encouraging Maya to exaggerate.
have you met a child ever? CHILDREN FEEL SAFE WITH THEIR PARENTS, so they actually communicate better. Beata was 100% cleared of the MBP accusations but JHACH is claiming chapter 39 so it can't be released in court.
SHE WAS TEN YEARS OLD, she acts like a much better, mature, and kinder person than you do.@@therealz360z7
@@mikusheadphones they couldn't properly evaluate Beata because it was a children's hospital and only had children's mental health providers not a general hospital where they have adult therapists to evaluate.
that's not what happened. there were forensic psychs that were NOT childrens hospital employees. @@sharynkoren2054
It might be conversion disorder. It doesn't matter. Instead of talking to Kirkpatrick and Hanna they accused Beata and separated her from her daughter for months. They treated her like a criminal which lead to her committing suicide. The hospital should be heald accountable.
AMEN.
Yeah lawyer you know is the lawyer who never takes a principled stand. What a pointless channel.
But Beata was caught doing very sketchy things. She wanted Mayas prescription labeled “terminal” she wanted Maya put in an induced coma with a ketamine pump. That treatment has a high chance of killing her. Something wasn’t adding up.
@@clairewillow6475 Did Beata come up with the ketamine coma? Is it okay to separate a mother from her child without proof that the mother WANTS to hurt her child?
@@olgakipke3720 not only did she “come up with it” she was working in that field (IV treatments) Another sign. It’s very common for mothers with MBP to have some kind of medical knowledge or have worked in healthcare
15:43 I love that when it’s on the side of Johns Hopkins it’s all bias, but when anything was on the side of the plaintive, it was completely fine 😡
As a trained medical coder, if you use a diagnosis for treatment, even as a inpatient, the treatment HAS to line up with the diagnosis. Their medical coders could be in deep doodoo for fraudulant coding since they never supposedly documented CRPS during her entire hospital stay.
If she was admitted with a diagnosis of CRPS, they are justified in reporting it on the claim. I am wondering if the later notes say it had been ruled out.
agree. They done messed this up bad.
@@stacey1245they used it throughout her whole stay. That makes no sense considering their position.
I’m not certain Maya had CRPS. I watched the documentary a few days after trial started. I was 100% with the family. As court has went on, my opinion has swayed. The main issue for me is no matter if she had Crps or not, the hospital staff, Sally, and Kathy went about things in a way that caused more damage then needed to be. The emails her mom wrote acting as Maya, was a red flag for me as well. Not sure why she would write those in the way that she did. I can understand keeping documentation but not like that. I’m still unsure on Maya not “faking” it. Maybe added more pain then she was actually having.
I'm sure she cried more around mom, but doesn't every kid act more sick around mom?
Around everyone but mom I would try to show as little illness as possible because I had been told I was faking for showing the full symptoms.
Maya had dealt with many more people suspicious of her being sick than I did, so I have no issue with how her and her mom acted.
I also don't have an issue with the hospital reporting abuse, as they were required to by law. Where I do have issues is their "treatment" and lack there of. Even if she doesn't have CRPS she has something that presents similar enough to it that she's probably in actual pain.
@@rrteppoone of my friends who’s 21 got sick with a bad case of stomach flu. He ended up in hospital then got released. He lives with his gf and she works so no one to look after him to make sure he ok post discharge. His mom took him home and he admitted he milked it a bit so mom brings him things even when he could have done it. Must be MBP 😂
My son was born with a serious heart defect. He had heart surgery when he was 3wks old. I journaled the whole experience AS IF I WAS MY SON. Example : First entry ... " I am 3 wks old today and have to have heart surgery." This is very common for parents to do. Does this mean we all have some form of MBP? Does this mean we are strange or weird ? Hopefully, the jury doesn't buy into the defenses MBP diagnoses, which they have no professionals or experts qualified to make such a diagnosis.
@@amandawesterfield7447Maya has a pretend illness, your son's illness is not pretend
@Dana-jl2fv That is YOUR opinion. CRPS is not a pretend illness. My cousin suffers with it everyday.
I’ve typed medical transcription for 25 years. This should have been in the chart as “ possible CRPS or “?CRPS” (? Means query) and then later if they did not believe patient had that it would change to “CRPS ruled out”. Simple. They never thought she had it, and if parents said she had that diagnosed by another doctor, it still should have been “ possible CRPS “ until it was also diagnosed by them. Actually in real life, an abbreviation should never be used in the Diagnosis heading (ok in rest of report just not under diagnosis and impression) in a report but always expanded as there are so many abbreviations that mean more than one thing in the medical language. These reports are also medical-legal documents and doctors who dictate them know this. They are NOT just used for billing purposes.
This is such a tough case on all sides. I feel for Maya and her family. I also feel for the some of the doctors/providers. As a healthcare administrator and married to a provider, you just want to do right by the patient. Generally speaking, providers want to do their best and sometimes under immense pressure, can relent and go with the family’s wishes, despite them having that sinking feeling it might not be the best course of action. This seems like one of those situations where they tried something less conventional and it spun out of control.
Peter, to your comment about the billing and the doctor’s response to it - yes, I’m not surprised by this one bit. Hospital billing is nightmarish and absolutely not as streamlined or logical as one would think. This is everywhere - not just Johns Hopkins. I’d bet it’s even worse elsewhere.
I also worked in hospital administration and risk management. I disagree. Most often, physicians do not care at all about helping patients. They are judgmental, cold, and do not care. The good physicians are few and far between. Billing must be accurate and in compliance with regulations. If they billed for crps and were adamant that she did not have it, that is fraud and abuse.
@@ann316 Thank you for your comment. I understand you have a different perspective . I’m sorry you had that experience. Regarding the hospital billing, I understand what you’re saying. I was more so speaking from a general perspective. You tube comments don’t allow for the nuance these types of discussions deserve.
He was coached. CRPS is still not well understood. What is understood is that stress, fear, isolation from important supports, intimidation all can be factors exacerbating pain perception. He’s awful, and the repeated billing for CRPS was unforgivably conflicting with the harmful actions JHACH took against Maya and her family.
The Kowalski's refused transfer to another hospital/program because of a diagnosis code for Munchausen by proxy on the transfer form. By signing it, they would be admitting that which was unacceptable
Plus Maya would never again get insurance coverage for CRPS treatment.
I would have taken the risk and fight later
Actually the other hospital didn't want to give her a interthecal pump or give Ketamine at high doses higher than the amount a Vet would give a Horse for surgery. An outpatient Doctor can give drugs off label but Hospitals can't they will lose accreditation.
@@MyMomo17You seem in the pro kidnapping camp?
An they would lose funding for her real diagnosis ...........
The hospital has every right to call when a child is abused but after that call they have no right to anything of the case
The hospital has an obligation to notify CPS if child abuse is suspected. They then have to follow the instructions of the court.
@@dbar1but she was supposedly fine so why was she in the hospital?
@@dbar1the court went off of nothing but a report written by one doctor. Don’t you think that’s completely asinine?
I hope that one day, we stop approaching children and families with such deficit thinking. They are the experts in their own lives, and their voices deserve to be heard and given a chance.
"Children are experts in their own lives"... Even when it comes to the intricacies/complications of medical diagnoses? And does that apply to vaccines as well?
TBH, this case is starting to become a bit absurd w/ the way ppl are applying "reasonableness" to the actions of John Hopkins Children's Hospital (or any medical hospital).
@@TekniQxif you do some research, you might find cases, here in US, where for one reason or the other a kid around Maya’s age has rejected or asked for a treatment and their voice has been considered in court. If the kid shows they understand the medical decision that is being taken, the court allows them to testify, even if their decision risks death. You would also be surprised, that has happened also in vaccine cases. Kids are no objects, they are the ones living their conditions, is just fair to allow them to have a voice. That didn’t happen in this case because they all concluded since the beginning that it was MBP and that Maya was lying. If these medical personnel would have been more open minded and compassionate, I’m sure it could have been handled in a better way without silencing Maya.
The issue with that is that there are doctors who CONSTANTLY get things wrong and you die because of it. Doctors are NOT perfect and all knowing. They actually fuck up all the time, hence why they LEGALLY HAVE TO HAVE MALPRACTICE INSURANCE@@suzanne5140
You think that a child with the most painful disease there is, who has been independently diagnosed by at LEAST 5 doctors, and who has literally every textbook symptom of CRPS should just be forced to suffer? Next time you have a health issue, just don't go to the doctor. just get locked up and tortured by a bunch of assholes who also won't allow you near anyone then find out your mom/husband/sibling killed themselves. jesus christ. no one is saying to fucking coddle her, they are saying to LISTEN TO HER. HOSPITALS AND DOCTORS CONSTANTLY FUCK UP@@suzanne5140
@@suzanne5140 How on earth can the parents be accused of doing too much medical care for their child by John Hopkins (going to multiple health care providers, traveling to Mexico for procedures, administration of large doses of meds) and yet some people claim neglect? That is the opposite of what even the hospital itself is claiming.
So, tell me who wouldn't think there is a psychological component in a child that has dealt with CRPS and experienced excruciating pain for so much of her life? Of course a young child in that situation is going to need psychological help to deal with the trauma of that. That doesn't indicate anything odd or problematic to me. Adults dealing with chronic pain need help to process how it affects their everyday life.
The hospital just added more trauma when they kept her away from her parents. I can't imagine that long.
Unfortunately, many people who suffer from chronic pain will be very familiar with being treated in a similar way to the way that Maya was treated. When you suffer from enormous pain, but the cause of the pain doesn’t show up on scans or blood tests, everyone tends to see you as a malingerer, even when they know you were totally different prior to the start of the chronic pain.
And now we have an opiate epidemic and addiction and od rates are in the hundreds of thousands each year. Ketamine is addictive and dangerous period
@@brendab2946"And now"? What does this have to do with people suffering from legitimate pain?
@@ashleypg1708 the treatment is not narcotics. It is pt, ot and cbt and doing these daily on your own. Narcotics make pain thresholds worse plus other worse problems they never started with
Cancer and terminal illness is the only place narcotics belong or less than a month for acute things like fractures or surgery. That is the dea guidelines and any standard recommendations in yhe usa since the opiate epidemic became an issue
@@brendab2946oh Brenda, so glad you looked all that up on the DEA's guidelines. The DEA is a great place to get advice on chronic pain 😂.
I have had CRPS since i was 12, it is a nightmare. I would give anything to not have this.
The nurse wasn’t thorough which reflects her honesty. She said she didn’t document every little thing because she told the doctors about behaviors and a few minutes later says “ had I known this would have gone to court I would have documented more”. Not ok. Everything needs to be documented because it is very important to do so no matter the chaos you work in. As a nurse practitioner I always tell my nurses to put everything in writing when they need to communicate anything to me about a patient because I want it in their medical record. It’s good practice and good advocacy both to the patients and to the job you chose to do.
As a registered nurse - like Mia’s mom - my kids grew up knowing medical language all of their friends didn’t speak. In fact when my daughter entered nursing school herself - her instructors were impressed with her base knowledge. Then she would tell them she grew up w a mom that’s a nurse. So take that for what it’s worth.
As someone with multiple autoimmune disorders and chronic pain and have a very high pain tolerance. When I went to a hospital in Canada for abdominal pain which ended up being 4 kidney stones. It took 8 hours to get pain medicine because they said I didn’t act like I was in pain because I could talk. Yes when you talk to me I might stop moaning and respond. I feel for Maya. She obviously answered them when they talked to her it would be weird not to. All of the hospital witnesses seem on edge and scripted and not genuine.
Yep, If you aren't screaming in pain they don't listen to you. I had an experience where I was brought in by ambulance and got to the hospital at 6pm. Put in a room and only seen at 10pm because I screamed in pain and they came to check on me. I did apologize for screaming. 5 minutes later taken to CT pulled out after 5 minutes and needed to sign paperwork for immediate surgery. My stomach had perforated. Surgeon complained he was called in the middle of the night. (this was about 10 years ago.)
I find this case so interesting because my granddaughter was diagnosed at the age of 5 years old with CRMO disease at the Cincinnati Children's Hospital. There are only about 400 cases in the world! She underwent so many tests for this disease before she was actually diagnosed. This started with pain in her leg and ankle. She is now 22 years old and still has flare-ups...thanks Peter for following this case. Very interesting.. there are a lot of similarities with these two diseases.
To my understanding the parents WERE willing to transfer Maya to the program but the hospital insisted they sign the transfer forms that stated Manchausen, conversion disorder, which were not properly diagnosed and could implicate the mum in some way.
The insurance companies must go crazy with this type of response. So much incompetence.
I kinda hope insurance at least explore taking JH to court over this shenanigans
I’ve been in pain for years. Until I was properly diagnosed ( took a long time) ver rare auto immune disease. I can relate to feeling her life was a lie. I felt that too.
I am sorry you experienced that. I hope life is treating you more kindly now. I do not agree with Peter saying there are just 2 scenarios re this "my life is a lie" etc. statement by Maya - that the nurse is lying or she's not - This is incorrect and doesn't take into account the many things a statement like this could mean. Total frustration; why me; this can't be happening to me .... and on and on. This bright child would have a vocabulary that many her age would not have due to her extensive involvement with the medical "industry".
@@carolcarol3938 Ty totally agree. Very sad case. Very very sad. Her mom took her own life to free her from there. And it apparently worked. Ty for your kind words
Thanks so much for your show. As a retired RN ,this is soooo complicated 😢
My guess is this quote is because staff didn't believe her pain and she was frustrated, more like, 'oh ya, so my whole life is just a lie then... '☘️🌹
Thank you for being so open to both sides in every case. You teach us more than the legal view. You teach us a compassionate view with out trying to sway our basic inclinations.
Billing Code is everything! Try getting a hospital, doctor, or dentist office to change a billing code to suit one's insurance--not going to happen if not the exact diagnosis or procedure. JHCH then if not believing crps but billed for it then stole a half million from insurance! That's a lawsuit unto itself.
Maya,s mum was a nurse she may have used medication for meds also most children that have had a lot of illness will learn those words from doctors nurses and anyone who attends them . Also Maya saying her life is a lie she may have been referring to the way she was being treated by the medical staff at the hospital trying to force what they wanted on her they behaved atrociously and kept her prisoner.
I appreciate you doing this bc I haven't had time to listen to the whole trial, thank you!
Although I feel bad for Maya in some ways, how would it play out if the hospital didn't take the steps they did and she was being medically abused by her mother and something worse happened - like she died.... this would be a totally different trial. Hospital staff/physicians have to look at everything and they did what they had to do.
Absolutely. I know I’m in the minority here, but I agree with the hospital. I think the his would’ve been an entirely different case had they not put a stop to the ketamine treatments.
I have personal experience with many of the meds she was on, too. She was on way too many meds and the doctors can’t even agree that she has asthma, let alone crps.
My thoughts exactly.
It seems to me there are many people that made up their minds after watching the Netflix documentary.
The conversation I was looking for. 💯 agree. I saw the documentary and fully was on their side but totally changed my mind. I think they were concerned for her
@@NatashaFitnessYogaPilates I think people want to believe the hospital acted altruistically because that way they don't have to confront the unsettling reality that they themselves could be completely destroyed by one single arrogant doctor at any time in the future.
The Stanford doctor wasn’t saying that it was OK to continue to bill on the wrong diagnosis. He just said that’s what happens.
After leaving Luries the family went to Tampa general and did these recommendations…they live in FL and Lurie was a second opinion. The family actually did follow the recommendations
Yes! They tried all the cheaper and conventional things. Maya did say everything like PT is harder without ket. One of Maya’s dr did say some steroids maya is on for asthma makes ket less effective hence large dose. Everyone seems to ignore that including JH staff. Cantu is titrating ket to effect, ie upping bit by bit so to not kill his patients but at same time getting enough into maya so the procedures hopefully gets an good outcome. People need to pay attention ahhhhhh!
To me, JHACH's actions were reprehensible regardless of whether Maya had CRPS. (John Hopkins has a serious problem with arrogant doctors and malpractice lawsuits.)
Could the “lie” that Maya says about her life be that she puts on a happy face when she lives in pain and depression?
Here's my only question: If Beata was MBP, she's a nurse & she researched this disease extensively and KNEW that CRPS doesn't affect the entire body. all at once. Beata wouldn't convince Maya, to think that her entire body,, legs & arms hurt when she knew it didn't work that way.
You’re assuming good mental health. Highly doubtful - sexually abused in Poland by her father , refused therapy and one witness who interviewed Maya said she was preoccupied w/ her mothers mood ( sadness) not her pain ! That guy believed Mom had preexisting depression! Just bc she’s a nurse does NOT mean she researched extensively, Maya was missing critical criteria for Dx.
Maya’s mother was more than just a nurse, didn’t she have 4 more degrees in the medical profession? Her mom was really compliant when the nurse with less degrees than herself said you can’t say that and you can’t say this as they listened to their phone calls!
It can’t be MBP during family court beata was ordered to get checked for MBP. She did, and it came back that’s she doesn’t have it. It’s not mentioned in the case because of chapter 39 immunity
@@Theresa1057 She was an infusion nurse.
@@Ayyelikialso Beata was on antidepressants yet said she wasn’t depressed. So many things were not adding up
What it all comes down to is the victimization of Maya - whether it was from her mother, the hospital or the doctors who treated her from the past. The biggest thing that jumps out to me is that the hospital capitalized on the diagnosis to get paid. Maya had no control whatsoever over her treatment options or the way she was treated while at this hospital. I know this is a legal case and it will come down to fault and who is more at fault etc., but the person who has lost the most, whose life was altered the most, who was damaged the most is Maya. I pray the jury finds in her favor. This young lady has suffered enough.
When the parents victimize the children usually end up dead. The hospital probably kept her from dying earlier at the hands of her mother.
It’s crazy because my sister was diagnosed with RSD or type 1 CRPS and when she saw the movie she broke down, because she got very similar treatment at John’s Hopkins even though she was there for a short time. She had a fracture in her foot move a growth plate and that triggered the RSD after healing. Same exact hospital, but she did get better treatment here in Florida.
To play devil’s advocate, imagine Maya’s parents were accused of abuse and all of these unusual circumstances and comments were ignored by the hospital, would they be held liable for not reporting this as a mandated reporter? I think that’s the tactic I would take if I was the hospital’s defense
Exactly!!
Reporting what?
The problem with that hypothetical is that the family was receiving diagnoses and treatment from licensed healthcare providers. If the hospital was concerned, then they should have reported the healthcare providers. Not the family who are following medical advice.
The issue is the hospital held maya before dcf gave them the power to investigate. That’s what you all entrapment.
The irony here is that on friday a dr witness from the defense got caught on the stand admitting to failing to report Maya's SA despite her noting it in record. When called out by the plaintiff and the Jury Q's she stumbled so hard that the judge even asked her his OWN line of questioning... So... The level of incompetence from JHACH is insane.
It is so sad, but so true..once a diagnosis is made in your medical record it is very difficult to remove .
Given our national work place situation..easy billing ..it just gets repeated in billing.
Worked in medical care for over 25 years.
I'm an ER nurse for 18 years and nurse Klink realky got to me. I did not agree with A LOT of what she said. I didn't buy her charting excuses, how she just does doctors orders. You do chart A LOT and you paint a picture of what you are seeing. You don't put what the mom told you to. You can say mom reports patient in inconsolable, however, pt is laying in bed appearing comfortable, no writhing, guarding, crying, splinting noted, pt requesting a dohnut at this time. Or, white treatment team in room for assessment pt appeared upset yelling "wheres my fucking sedation." You chart all these things. And in nursing school they tell you "if it's not charted it wasn't done." That's not only about tasks, it everything. And if you suspect this could be or was a comicated case involving LE and such, you over chart. And, us nurses don't just follow orders from the doctors, we are interested in diagnosis, treatment plan and response. We are the doctors primary care provider that reports on how the patient is doing. Everything she said was not high standard of care nursing. She was an embarrassment to our profession. I know I'm not the only nurse who thinks that.
I'm really annoyed at the number of doctors and nurses who didn't document significant DIAGNOSTIC things and they just blow it off. (Were I an insurance provider, I'd be readying my legal and accounting teams.)
@@iceguy9723 These are shitty drs. Bottom of the barrel. I can say that now as a retired Dr. There are lots of bad, lazy, know-it-all drs. In my experience, women drs 2x more are evil than male drs. I will not go to a female doctor or a doctor with less than 12 years experience or a PA or NP and I have them in my family. I'm schooling them though and in time, one may be a good Dr.
I'm not a nurse, but I did also picked from her and dt Sanchez that Maya was not just swearing but also spitting. Well, this would be on another level...this should be definitely charted if only for the health and safety serious implications....
Watched the trial today. I still falt them for not letting the mom see Maya
This Crps Doctor is definitely wrong on at least one symptom. He claims you don’t get Crps sores on the face, well that is absolutely incorrect! I have CRPS2 of face/head & I get weird lesions on my face, not always, but nevertheless I do get them!
Love the way you took this testimony step by step. I believe for the most part he was a good witness but I have a problem with a doctor discounting the diagnosis when he hasn't even talked to or examined the client. Very bad look when he answered the billing question.
Agree with the problem about discounting the diagnosis without examination. I liked the Dr. and appreciated a lot of his testimony on direct examination, but I was more concerned by the way he contradicted himself in the testimony between direct testimony, cross examination and jury question answers. Ketamine isn't an opiod but it's addictive. 10 year olds don't typically have relapses from treatment after CRPS but we had a 10 year old that did. CRPS isn't a chronic lifelong pain disease, but it can be a lifelong pain disease. CRPS isn't pain all over the whole body, unless it's become chronic. Only approved treatments are okay but FDA approval is rare for treatments of children. There has never been a child with CRPS that has a severe relapse....that only happens in adults. But....something has "never" happened until it happens for the first time. Imagine being that doctors patient when suffering from a "first ever" type illness. I don't think he'd be open minded enough to catch it.
@@frsmith5069 I.E. "Only approved treatments are okay" i.e. "approved" & tested by the 5 BILLION in Fruad fines Big Pharma's "medicine"! (Who are also a leader in cause of DEATH!) [if] you can believe the Johns Hopkins iatrogenic study & the book, Death by Medicine!!!
If they suspected MBP why didnt they see an improvement when they had care of Maya. Mom's contact was so scrutized she was cut off immediatley if they felt anything was improper. Under there narrative she should have gotten better by removing mom
I disagree, this womans lying. I can't watch this, being the mom of a child who beat cancer at 5 yrs old, and lived in sick kids hospital for 3 months. I'm watching from that perspective , and the nurses and doctors at the and of the day are human, and there are LIARS in every occupation. Maya stay beautiful, never lose hope, your mama is with you everyday. ❤
Wishing a very healthy life for your child and yourself. Much love to you. 💖💖💖
I think so too ☹️so happy for your baby ♥️🙏🏻
@@adimartinez_realtor 16 and has been in remission since 2015!! My everything ❤
@@mycupisfull my baby is 16 also ❤️ what a……great age 🤣❤️❤️❤️🤭 many many blessings and years to come for you both
@@adimartinez_realtor same for you 🌹 Boys are a challenge, but he's my favorite human ever. God bless. Stay grateful.🙂
The hired gun Witness I felt helped the prosecution more than the defense.1st of all he never even saw Maya or examined her also he was caught in several inconsistencies and he lost me when he said he can diagnose CRPS from his telephone. what?
Yes I heard him say I can listen to them blow on them and hear them to say they have it goodness anyone can say what ever over the phone
I’ve been watching this trial. The jury questions are very good!
I understand about an entry following a patient. Every time my mom went into the hospital from a heart attack there was an entry for congestive heart failure that they would see even though she was never diagnosed with it. We had to adresss it every time (at least 12 times)
Peter I looked up CRPS in relation to Ketamine. The medical experts said that Ketamine was effective for those who didn’t respond to other strong medications like opioids. Maya was allergic to morphine.
I looked it up and it said the treatment was fysiotherapy. Ketamine is only given to patients dying of bonecancer.
I am also allergic to morphine and codene after my back surgery I could tolerate DEMORAL and Norco and soma to ween off if DEMORAL, the Norco had to be minus an ingredient it wasn’t the typical Norco
Per Dr Hanna’s testimony, Beata was never supposed to be administering ketamine through Maya’s port at home as it was an oral medication to be administered once per day but she did it anyway every 3.5 hours. Dr. Hanna felt uncomfortable with the dose she was receiving and refused to raise it more in spite of Beata’s protests. Shortly before Maya’s hospitalization he told Beata and Jack that if it wasn’t working on this high of a dose it was a failed treatment option for them and they needed to move on from it and Beata did not accept this.
Also noted that the doctors On the defense team wanted to blame mental issues only for Maya's pain; when some didn't even go examine her for themselves.
Peter- I am a Medical Records coder (32 years), the coding/billing is all based on documentation. There are several coding rules and guidelines that have to followed. Coding this to CRPS seems legit from what I have seen and heard. Without reading the medical record, making assumptions about being billed incorrectly is wrong. I take offense to the way the billing is being portrayed.
The hospital is basically saying Myah is a liar and is faking it and then they say her mothers has done this to her daughter.
Correct and I agree.
@@CityBohoGirlyou don’t get to agree. You weren’t there
@@CityBohoGirlshe’s still faking it is she? All these years later?
@@boomds5602 Dam* straight ahraighr she is. Did you even watch the entire trial? She’s looking very, very, um, healthy in pics at parties, traveling doing red carpet. Then meekly limps into the courtroom, no make up, but Boris later. Gimme a fng break. . It’s CHRONICCCC REGIONAL pain syndrome. Not both legs sometimes but not other times, a head, both arms but it comes and goes sooo 🥹, fake lesions that are literally laughable and when any doctors touch you you’re 💯 fine, not when the mom picks you up. After her mother selfishly took her life bc JH figured her out and she was caught!!! -, there are those home videos of Maya running around happily playing with her brother chasing the dog around. They’re astounding. My moms bff’s granddaughter had iit in her left post a traumatic injury to that leg and it was so severe the teen took her own life. Drown in bathtub. 😞doesn’t just come and go. The dad told CPS detective that he WANTED her to stay at JH and his wife was acting crazy essentially and their cameras show Maya sitting with her ledge crossed when Beata wasn’t around.
@@boomds5602 Well sure I do because I’m watching their footage of Maya sitting cross cross apple sauce as they call it when her sick twisted
mother isn’t around.
That’s interesting info … I had no clue that it had to be unanimous for a civil case in Florida
Re: Maya requesting "sedation". I would imagine she used that terminology because she learned it from Dr.'s, nurses. I have the same, ( crps) and I do know when one is in horrific pain one might say some strange things, I know I have.
I mean lets be real, what parents are going to go across the country and to an entirely different country paying all these bills and spending all of this time purely for it to be Munchausen by proxy lol - the parents did not get any benefit at all nor did they inquire for any money etc etc. They even mentioned they could no longer go to Dr Kirkpatrick because they could not afford it any longer so he referred them to Hanna. And lastly. The mom documented SO much of every visit and every little possible detail of what went on and when for Maya. I find it very very very impossible to think the parents had anything to do with purposefully and maliciously doing something to their daughter only and not to the son.
Please don't stop covering this trial-so, so complex and you do such an awesome job breaking it down. TY!!
There is nothing consistent about the defense’s approach. Does she have CRPS or doesn’t she? Is she faking it or is it fake but involuntary? Or is her mom to blame and putting her through all of this because she was medically abusing her? They can’t diagnose Maya with MBP but can transfer her with that diagnosis? 🤯 Jesus. No wonder when the mon got a diagnosis and was having it treated she stuck with her guns.