Some of these nit-pickers in the audience might be criticizing you, but I actually appreciate these up-close videos. Really allows those of us at home to enjoy the beautiful music of the National Cathedral.
This is clearly a visiting choir, as they are not in cassocks & surplices. The WNC frequently hosts both guest organists & choirs in the summer while the in house Music Program is on quasi-hiatus (a liturgical schedule typically maintained by most Anglican churches). 2012 was the bridge period between Scott Dettra & Benjamin Straley, so the organist featured here is either a guest or a WNC staff associate.
Everything sounds wonderful. But as an organist myself however, I’ve found it much more effective to balance sound by removing louder ranks whilst accompanying a congregation. For fear of overpowering any vocal, organists will diminish ranks to a more well-matched dynamic level. Although the organist does play quite nicely!! Love the fanfare-esque reeds in the beginning!!
The organist is playing seems to be very choppy or staccato....in this acoustical environment of about 7 seconds if the organist played legato it would sound like mush out in the congregation.
Good explanation because I found that stacco strange and choppy. I once played the Tabernacle organ and it was bizarre- you heard the pipes in the left ear and 5 seconds later it came back into your right ear almost as clear, it was very confusing!
Love visiting the cathedral for concerts and I have often visited on Christmas eve nothing better than full tutti. Some of these folks would fall over dead if they visited a French Cathedral and heard postlude improvisation at full tutti screaming chamades and 32 foot reeds love it loud love to feel the rumble. But it's nice to hear some soft celeste once in a while then full tutti Vierne toccata
No and yes. Most of the current organ was built between 1973 and 1976 by a group of former Aeolian-Skinner employees, including Joseph Whiteford and Roy Perry. However, a small number of stops from the 1938 Ernest Skinner organ were preserved and are a part of this organ. These are primarily found in the Solo Division. I believe they are the Gamba Celeste, Flauto Mirabilis, Full Mixture, Corno di Bassetto, English Horn, French Horn, and Tuba Mirabilis. However, I could be wrong on this. If you compare this organ to an unaltered Ernest Skinner organ, they are vastly different in the way they sound. This organ has more fire and brightness than what Skinner would have built. Skinner's organs were designed to imitate the sound of a symphony orchestra. As such, the sound of a Skinner was characterized by a very lush, rich, and full sound. Less emphasis was placed on high-pitched upperwork and mixtures, and those that did exist were designed to blend with the rest of the organ, rather than shine above it. Reeds were not as aggressive in tone as they are in today's organs. Skinner would have most certainly disapproved of this organ. While this organ does contain some lush, symphonic pipes that Skinner would appreciate, the vast majority of the pipes in this organ go against his ideals. The reeds are more aggressive in tone, the mixtures are brighter and more powerful, and the organ is able to play Baroque music, something Skinner organs could not do easily. Not to mention, this organ lacks some of the rich, lush sound characteristic of many cathedral organs. And yes, there was a plan to replace this organ with two new organs, built by Dobson and Casavant Freres. Even though this organ is loved by both organists and non-organists alike, it has great difficulty filling the room with sound. To put it bluntly, the organ is poorly placed into the room, and the organ sounds underwhelming if you are not in the Great Quire(where this was recorded from). Those in the back of the nave get a few beats behind the organ because of the sound delay. The plan was to have Dobson build a new organ in the Great Quire, where the current organ lives. The second organ would be built in the West End Gallery by Casavant Freres. Both organs would have been playable from one console, allowing both organs to be played at the same time. This would allow those in the back of the nave to sing with those in the Great Quire without getting behind. Not to mention, an interview with the late, great J. Reilly Lewis revealed that the Cathedral wanted an organ with richer, fuller tones that what the current organ offers. Something more akin to some built by Skinner or by one of the great English builders. This would arguably be more appropriate for the National Cathedral given that it is built in English Gothic style. Interestingly enough, the Cathedral's former director of music Douglas Major claimed that the Austrian government had offered the the Cathedral a large Rieger organ of four manuals for the West End gallery. It was planned to be Austria's gift to America for its Bicentennial in 1976. However then-director of music Paul Callaway declined the offer because English Cathedrals don't have West End organs. Had the Cathedral accepted the offer, it is likely that they would not be dealing with some of the issues that they have today. Alas, the project was cancelled in 2009 because of the economic downturn.
Wow - that's a long youtube comment! Thanks for the excellent summary; though you are perhaps a bit too generous in attributing the cancellation entirely to 'the economic downturn' and not at least partly to the Cathedral's fiscal mismanagement.
@@Salmagundiii Yeah, I bet that if they hadn't built that stupid parking garage and incurred $34 million in debt, those new organs would be here today.
@@OwenLenzmeierOrganist I work at Dobson, and I can tell you the organ would have been fantastic and high quality, but that "plan" of 2 new organs was many years ago. St Thomas in NYC loves the new organ we put in. "the Austrian government had offered the the Cathedral a large Rieger organ of four manuals for the West End gallery. It was planned to be Austria's gift to America for its Bicentennial in 1976." Talk about looking GIFT horse in the mouth, wow! if they were willing to pay for a million dollar or whatever it might have been project- TAKE IT!! A Rieger organ would have been good, I've heard a number of older Rieger organs in Slovakia and Hungary and they are all extremey nice, no brash/harsh reeds scraping your eardrums off.
Noticed that he is playing the hymn almost staccato. I guess with the long echo, you need to really thus enunciate the music to keep the singers in synch with the organ.
William, you are absolutely right. I played there for a communion service once and Rob Lehman, instructed me to play the same way. He said the acoustics were such if the organist did not detach the notes, in the nave, the organ would me mush. And, yes, Sarah, the organ is a bit too loud; however, the organ console is in a niche but sitting right under the main pipe chambers and the bombard division is directly across from the console. But, too, this organist is not Douglas Major or Rob Lehman.
It's an interesting one. It has been reported that the brilliant Ben Straley has been instructed to play this way, possibly against his own wishes. It can sometimes sound choppy on their Sunday webcasts. What's puzzling is that the supremely talented Simon Johnson doesn't play this way at the vast St Paul's Cathedral in London. It's super-smooth and yet I would imagine the acoustic is similarly challenging with a 3-5 second delay?
KennnnnnyTucky "The average value of the reverberation time is 11 s at 500 Hz when the cathedral [St Paul's, London] is empty and reduces to 7·8 s at the same frequency when the cathedral is full." (From here: www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0022460X84905625 ) Wow -- and last time I was in the middle of it (1990s), it *felt* like 30 secs minimum! Yet, as you say, at the hands/feet of an expert the organ sound majestically non-mushy. And thinking of Wren, St. James's Piccadilly has almost no reverb at all, so if you're intending to sound staccato you can do so at an incredible speed. (1990s again and based on hearing a chamber orchestra pounding out the coda to Dvorak 9 staccatissimo at a heck of a speed, rather than on the organ).
THis WASN'T an actual professional recording folks. If it HAAAAAD! There would have been "MIC" placements as well as camera placements with independent mic placement at various points to capture ogan AND choir independently.
Sarah Walker If you listen closely you can actually hear them singing, but you need to be able to listen past the organ. Around 1:10 the camera catches it and you can follow from there.
Trompette en chamade I think. Sounds brassier than the Tuba Mirabilis although that's pretty impressive too. Having listened to the webcasts over the last few years it's sad to observe both stops seem to have problems at times with the Trompette still having dead notes at Christmas 2017 as it did the year before. It pretty clear the organ could do with major work but there doesn't appear to be the money.
I think you are wrong. At the 2018 Independence Day Concert, director of music Michael McCarthy having the organists demonstrate certain features of the instrument. He started it out by instructing the organists to tell the audience about "the instrument, who made it, and what we want to do with it." They didn't talk about what they wanted to do with it, but McCarthy did imply that they have something planned for the instrument. The fact that they "want to do something with it" tells me that it is either a major renovation, revoicing, or rebuilding.
@@OwenLenzmeierOrganist The Trompette En Chamade at the National Cathedral and the State Trumpet at St John Divine in New York was added in the same year 1964.
Definitely a much better concert organist than a church organist. A lot of staccato plus the louder ranks; makes for a less than great experience for a choir/congregation. Playing is great, execution could be better
@@davidbeattie1366 It doesn't sound staccato in the nave of the cathedral because the organ creates a sonic effect due to placement and the location of the "Sowerby Swell" division.
Some of these nit-pickers in the audience might be criticizing you, but I actually appreciate these up-close videos. Really allows those of us at home to enjoy the beautiful music of the National Cathedral.
This hymn is PRAISE to the LORD thee Almighty.Beautiful playing of the Organ
Praise GOD for music,which soothes the Soul.Amen Amen.
This is clearly a visiting choir, as they are not in cassocks & surplices. The WNC frequently hosts both guest organists & choirs in the summer while the in house Music Program is on quasi-hiatus (a liturgical schedule typically maintained by most Anglican churches). 2012 was the bridge period between Scott Dettra & Benjamin Straley, so the organist featured here is either a guest or a WNC staff associate.
OH! To hear Steven Buzard at this organ! WHEN???
Everything sounds wonderful. But as an organist myself however, I’ve found it much more effective to balance sound by removing louder ranks whilst accompanying a congregation. For fear of overpowering any vocal, organists will diminish ranks to a more well-matched dynamic level. Although the organist does play quite nicely!! Love the fanfare-esque reeds in the beginning!!
Yes, it drowns the singing,
probably an enthusiastic organist?? 😊
It needs some 5.000 voices i imagine, to take such forceful playing..?
The organist is playing seems to be very choppy or staccato....in this acoustical environment of about 7 seconds if the organist played legato it would sound like mush out in the congregation.
Good explanation because I found that stacco strange and choppy. I once played the Tabernacle organ and it was bizarre- you heard the pipes in the left ear and 5 seconds later it came back into your right ear almost as clear, it was very confusing!
Love visiting the cathedral for concerts and I have often visited on Christmas eve nothing better than full tutti. Some of these folks would fall over dead if they visited a French Cathedral and heard postlude improvisation at full tutti screaming chamades and 32 foot reeds love it loud love to feel the rumble. But it's nice to hear some soft celeste once in a while then full tutti Vierne toccata
is this the old ernest skinner organ? I had read some time back they were thinking of replacing it. this organ sounds great
No and yes.
Most of the current organ was built between 1973 and 1976 by a group of former Aeolian-Skinner employees, including Joseph Whiteford and Roy Perry. However, a small number of stops from the 1938 Ernest Skinner organ were preserved and are a part of this organ. These are primarily found in the Solo Division. I believe they are the Gamba Celeste, Flauto Mirabilis, Full Mixture, Corno di Bassetto, English Horn, French Horn, and Tuba Mirabilis. However, I could be wrong on this.
If you compare this organ to an unaltered Ernest Skinner organ, they are vastly different in the way they sound. This organ has more fire and brightness than what Skinner would have built. Skinner's organs were designed to imitate the sound of a symphony orchestra. As such, the sound of a Skinner was characterized by a very lush, rich, and full sound. Less emphasis was placed on high-pitched upperwork and mixtures, and those that did exist were designed to blend with the rest of the organ, rather than shine above it. Reeds were not as aggressive in tone as they are in today's organs.
Skinner would have most certainly disapproved of this organ. While this organ does contain some lush, symphonic pipes that Skinner would appreciate, the vast majority of the pipes in this organ go against his ideals. The reeds are more aggressive in tone, the mixtures are brighter and more powerful, and the organ is able to play Baroque music, something Skinner organs could not do easily. Not to mention, this organ lacks some of the rich, lush sound characteristic of many cathedral organs.
And yes, there was a plan to replace this organ with two new organs, built by Dobson and Casavant Freres. Even though this organ is loved by both organists and non-organists alike, it has great difficulty filling the room with sound. To put it bluntly, the organ is poorly placed into the room, and the organ sounds underwhelming if you are not in the Great Quire(where this was recorded from). Those in the back of the nave get a few beats behind the organ because of the sound delay. The plan was to have Dobson build a new organ in the Great Quire, where the current organ lives. The second organ would be built in the West End Gallery by Casavant Freres. Both organs would have been playable from one console, allowing both organs to be played at the same time. This would allow those in the back of the nave to sing with those in the Great Quire without getting behind.
Not to mention, an interview with the late, great J. Reilly Lewis revealed that the Cathedral wanted an organ with richer, fuller tones that what the current organ offers. Something more akin to some built by Skinner or by one of the great English builders. This would arguably be more appropriate for the National Cathedral given that it is built in English Gothic style.
Interestingly enough, the Cathedral's former director of music Douglas Major claimed that the Austrian government had offered the the Cathedral a large Rieger organ of four manuals for the West End gallery. It was planned to be Austria's gift to America for its Bicentennial in 1976. However then-director of music Paul Callaway declined the offer because English Cathedrals don't have West End organs. Had the Cathedral accepted the offer, it is likely that they would not be dealing with some of the issues that they have today.
Alas, the project was cancelled in 2009 because of the economic downturn.
Wow - that's a long youtube comment! Thanks for the excellent summary; though you are perhaps a bit too generous in attributing the cancellation entirely to 'the economic downturn' and not at least partly to the Cathedral's fiscal mismanagement.
@@Salmagundiii Yeah, I bet that if they hadn't built that stupid parking garage and incurred $34 million in debt, those new organs would be here today.
@@OwenLenzmeierOrganist The Earthquake was very poorly timed as well. Silly Cathedral Chapter!
@@OwenLenzmeierOrganist I work at Dobson, and I can tell you the organ would have been fantastic and high quality, but that "plan" of 2 new organs was many years ago. St Thomas in NYC loves the new organ we put in.
"the Austrian government had offered the the Cathedral a large Rieger organ of four manuals for the West End gallery. It was planned to be Austria's gift to America for its Bicentennial in 1976."
Talk about looking GIFT horse in the mouth, wow! if they were willing to pay for a million dollar or whatever it might have been project- TAKE IT!!
A Rieger organ would have been good, I've heard a number of older Rieger organs in Slovakia and Hungary and they are all extremey nice, no brash/harsh reeds scraping your eardrums off.
Anyone know the name of the hymn at 4:05?
Nevermind, I got it. Hymn tune SALZBURG.
Noticed that he is playing the hymn almost staccato. I guess with the long echo, you need to really thus enunciate the music to keep the singers in synch with the organ.
William, you are absolutely right. I played there for a communion service once and Rob Lehman, instructed me to play the same way. He said the acoustics were such if the organist did not detach the notes, in the nave, the organ would me mush. And, yes, Sarah, the organ is a bit too loud; however, the organ console is in a niche but sitting right under the main pipe chambers and the bombard division is directly across from the console. But, too, this organist is not Douglas Major or Rob Lehman.
It's an interesting one. It has been reported that the brilliant Ben Straley has been instructed to play this way, possibly against his own wishes. It can sometimes sound choppy on their Sunday webcasts. What's puzzling is that the supremely talented Simon Johnson doesn't play this way at the vast St Paul's Cathedral in London. It's super-smooth and yet I would imagine the acoustic is similarly challenging with a 3-5 second delay?
KennnnnnyTucky "The average value of the reverberation time is 11 s at 500 Hz when the cathedral [St Paul's, London] is empty and reduces to 7·8 s at the same frequency when the cathedral is full." (From here: www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0022460X84905625 ) Wow -- and last time I was in the middle of it (1990s), it *felt* like 30 secs minimum! Yet, as you say, at the hands/feet of an expert the organ sound majestically non-mushy. And thinking of Wren, St. James's Piccadilly has almost no reverb at all, so if you're intending to sound staccato you can do so at an incredible speed. (1990s again and based on hearing a chamber orchestra pounding out the coda to Dvorak 9 staccatissimo at a heck of a speed, rather than on the organ).
All I will say is that I have not seen any organist play a hymn using this technique or action . Curious, I am.
What Hymn was this?
Praise to the Lord, the Almighty; tune: Lobe Den Herren
THis WASN'T an actual professional recording folks. If it HAAAAAD! There would have been "MIC" placements as well as camera placements with independent mic placement at various points to capture ogan AND choir independently.
Sam, can you tell us what device you used for the audio? I love how it picked up the reverb.
Majestoso.
What a shame I do not hear anyone singing. That's how I know the organ is too loud when I play at my church.
Sarah Walker If you listen closely you can actually hear them singing, but you need to be able to listen past the organ. Around 1:10 the camera catches it and you can follow from there.
Glad you don't play at my church.
Reason(s): (1)organ too loud ( at perpetual ff). (2) bad recording. (3) 1& 2.
THIS isan't the case at all. The positioning of the ONBOARD mic is limited to the camera position.
alpha232 it is a cathedral so organs are loud. I agree with Sarah. Love this hymn.
What stop was used for the opening fanfare?
Trompette en chamade I think. Sounds brassier than the Tuba Mirabilis although that's pretty impressive too. Having listened to the webcasts over the last few years it's sad to observe both stops seem to have problems at times with the Trompette still having dead notes at Christmas 2017 as it did the year before. It pretty clear the organ could do with major work but there doesn't appear to be the money.
I think you are wrong. At the 2018 Independence Day Concert, director of music Michael McCarthy having the organists demonstrate certain features of the instrument. He started it out by instructing the organists to tell the audience about "the instrument, who made it, and what we want to do with it." They didn't talk about what they wanted to do with it, but McCarthy did imply that they have something planned for the instrument.
The fact that they "want to do something with it" tells me that it is either a major renovation, revoicing, or rebuilding.
Sounds like the state trumpet.
@@noelcosgrave6515 Unfortunately the organ doesn't have a state trumpet!
@@OwenLenzmeierOrganist The Trompette En Chamade at the National Cathedral and the State Trumpet at St John Divine in New York was added in the same year 1964.
The cameraman was right, you were taking photos and video of the congregation.
So. Every service is filmed and it is a public place. Why the paranoia?
Definitely a much better concert organist than a church organist. A lot of staccato plus the louder ranks; makes for a less than great experience for a choir/congregation. Playing is great, execution could be better
Something tells me it doesn’t sound so staccato by the time it hits midway through the cathedral.
@@davidbeattie1366 It doesn't sound staccato in the nave of the cathedral because the organ creates a sonic effect due to placement and the location of the "Sowerby Swell" division.