The Philosophy of Tobirama Senju - For The Hokage Who Hated The Uchiha (Naruto)
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- Опубліковано 25 жов 2024
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Taking a look at the Second Hokage, Tobirama Senju, his strengths and weaknesses.
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what are your thoughts on the second hokage? personally, i think he has the coldest outfit in all of naruto.
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Personal favorite and wish we seen more of him, his fights and how he died
He's my favorite hokage
I find it ironic that some of the jutsu he developed to protect his brothers dream would eventually be used against it and the world.
Smartest Hokage.
Ya the blue and the white fur is dope
Tobirama feels like such a historical figure. He truely feels like a founding father in that he's resposible for some of the greatest institutions of his nation but also participated and promoted some of its greatest shames.
Not many fantasy worlds are willing to have their historical figures be that polorizing
Well its the same here, in America. Founding fathers had great stories, but no one likes talking about the biases and the damages they partook in their own vision without consequence
Yeah, Tobirama feels a little like Jefferson, wrote some kick ass lines about ending slavery, but could not really get rid of it without losing the financial battle. So he didn't. For all the good he did, he has that slavery issue to his name. For all thr good Tobirama did, his treatment of the Uchiha was outright racist and fueled the fire of public unrest.
@@laurocoman He was right about them though
frfr thats whats makes naruto great
@@Neiroe So if everyone treats you like murderer thief or whatever for your entire life wouldnt you also go haywire one day and show them what your being accusing of
if you see the things that happened in a level headed mind major chunk of tragedies in the story happened because of his actions and wouldnt happened if he didnt uchiha would just lived like everyother clans if they were treated normal no uchiha massacare no parentless naruto also think about it they would had been a great fighting force to face akatsuki or imposter masked madara or pain in latter portions of the story
Tobirama was the Batman to Hasirama’s Superman. Though Batman is a hell of a lot more compassionate than he gets credit for
Both of these statements are straight facts🔥🔥
I like that comparison
@@Rdc_Dom and I only picked up on the similarities cuz I grew up with DCAU justice league
@@madambutterfly1997 that justice league cartoon and justice league unlimited were both goated
Batman > superman
Like him or not, nobody can really tell me as a character Tobirama wasn't great. And with the influence he had in Danzo too? Excellent
You’re partly praising him based on the fact he had influenced one of the worst characters in the entire series? Wow, what an accomplishment
@@CommanderShepard-wq3wo Danzo as a character isn't bad. Insanely hypocritical, hated every threat against him, was ready to do any sins to achieve power.
Troublemaker991 danzo Charakter is made for you to Hate him
@@enderboy2264 no his character was meant to show the darker side of the leaf, but all his dark actions litteraly never benefitted the leaf and only benefitted himself. The only one that did was the uchiha massacre but that couldve been prevented if he was competent.
Idk why you were tryna say with that comment. Just because hes meant to be hated doesn’t mean hes right
@@yl1614 he never said it was right can you read? He literally just said he’s meant to be hated which is 100% true and the rest of your comment backed that up so idk what you’re trying to argue about
Tobirama is an interesting character, and honestly just a better Danzo. He was flawed and did some dark stuff he shouldn't have, but good did come from it and he did have some points.
Unlike Danzo who literally never did anything with a net positive result so him talking just comes off as him being stupid or senile. But Tobirama can actually have points to think about.
I would argue Danzo is also very interesting. And the fact that he didn't do anything that ended up being positive is exactly what makes him interesting in my opinion. Because the point of Danzo is his inherent contradictions. That's what makes him a very well written and even tragic villain. He spent his whole life chasing his rival's shadow, thinking that the only way to prove to be better than him is to fully ascribe to Tobirama's beliefs and completely disregard Hashirama, telling himself what he was doing was for the sake of the village
Instead though, all he did was self serving and he ended up creating most of the leaf's problems instead of solving them
Danzo is a way better character, he was just short lived and underused because he wasn't in a bullshit gay rivalry with the Uchihas.
@@wallstreetzoomer He wasn't in a "bullshit gay rivalry with the Uchihas" like Shikamaru, Gaara, and Guy right? All beloved and interesting characters who never had a rivalry with an Uchiha.
Oh I'm sorry, that's called not being a moron, a concept you are clearly unfamiliar with.
@@thecabbageman1 I would agree if there was a point to it. I want to emphasize how I said "comes off as him being stupid or senile", it's not Danzo ultimately not being good, it's that his actions are SO against his stated goals he loses impact.
Like he helped Orochimaru get Hashirama Cells, what was his thought process? How did killing Shisue at that time help anyone?
His plans are SO negative he becomes a joke, there can't be a "rivalry" with Hiruzen when he's this stupid, I can not believe it.
@@wallstreetzoomer you should delete your account
For me honestly, Tobirama's greatest failure was sacrificing his life and leaving the village at the hands of his still teenage students Hiruzen and Danzo. And that's proven by the fact that their era was the one with the most failures, wars and deaths for the leaf. At that point, they weren't ready to grasp the true ways of the shinobi world, so they stuck to wrong paths that led them both to become terrible leaders
Concur. The village, & the successors to the places of power (whoever they'd turn out to be) needed Tobirama longer. Hiruzen & Danzo would have been bad individually. Together they turned out to be pretty horrific.
Ofcourse it has the most deaths, they just were in power for that long. Hiruzen led the village through 3(well, 2 and a half) wars with the village coming out on top....
You make valid points but leaders have to make Tough decisions. It may not have been his best decision but it wasn’t his worst either. Hiruzen may not have been the greatest leader but he did lead his village in two great ninja wars to victory. Hiruzen may have made some major mistakes but to be fair he did inherit mistakes from both the first and second hokage. Hashirama was stupid to give away the tailed beasts to other nations for the purpose of “maintaining the balance of power.” Hashirama wasn’t obliged to do that. Giving away weapons of mass destruction to other countries that can potentially use them against you is foolish. That didn’t stop other nations from going to war and it made it easy for the Akatsuki to capture the tailed beasts. Hashirama also didn’t make sure Madara was actually dead. If he did, Obito would have likely remained dead and the nine tails attack on the village would have never happened. Tobirama was a great hokage but him training Danzo was his greatest mistake. I don’t think Danzo truly understood Tobirama. Danzo only cared about himself, he never really cared for the leaf. He is just a shady politician that caused a lot of problems for the leaf.
@@srikausthubhah1729 That's not true. In the obito flashbacks, we see that even early on at Hiruzen's first reign he and Danzo had managed to facilitate and maintain two brutal wars and created Orochimaru and Pain two of the worst enemies of the leaf
They were just terrible to begin with
@@srikausthubhah1729 no just 2 wars. 4th was Tsunade
Rather than hate, I felt that he was really apprehensive about the Uchiha's. And being apprehensive about everything was part of Tobirama's character. Overall, he's a lot like Batman.
I think he did hate them but acknowledged how this could be problematic so he wanted to find a way where they could be the least dangerous yet useful, basically not caring about their needs but willing to give them a seat at his table if they prove utter loyalty to him.
I think he was afraid another Madara would sprout out someday in the uchihas, he saw through Madara and instantly knew it would be over if left unchecked, and was ultimately proven correct about Madara, and I mean, wouldn't you be concerned about a clan that feast in negative emotions to gain strength? a clan that kills one another to become more powerful? a clan willing to murder your own siblings to aquire power? I would be very concerned to have someone like that run my country when the Senju's didn't have any remotely close to that as their core value.
And he was kinda right, after all, sasuke existed, and tried to follow madara's steps, but naruto was a better hashirama to his uchiha counterpart than hashirama so the worst outcome was avoided.
His japonese voice actor is the same as pein’s. So much presence in that voice its ridiculous!
I always found it interesting how Tobirama never regretted anything he did. Ever other major character displayed some level of self-reflection and regret for their mistakes, even Madara at the very end. But not Tobirama.
BC TOBIRAMAS ACTIONS WERET COMPLEATLY WRONG.
Because my man simply did not miss💯💯
I think he was confident he made the best choices that were available. He may not have liked all the options that he had, but he doesn't seem the type to dwell on the "I-wish-it-were-different".
Why should he have regrets? Except creating Edo Tensei none of his actions was a bad idea at that time.
@@mateuszgorecki6848 I’m not saying he should have regrets, just that the fact that he doesn’t is interesting in what it says about his personal disposition. Any other character would have regrets. Should Minato have regrets? Whether he should or shouldn’t, he does. It can be argued that he did nothing wrong. But even if he didn’t he still second guessed himself. Tobirama doesn’t second guess himself. That’s interesting.
Tobirama looked at everything through a logical perspective. Even when everyone was astonished at Obito's transformation into the Juubi Jinchuuriki, he was trying to analyze the situation calmly and logically. I can't say he didn't hate the Uchiha because 1) he was human and 2) had a long history of fighting them, killing them and seeing his comrades and brothers die to them, but his actions were mostly done through logic. He knew the village needed to be a home for the Uchiha and that their abilities could be useful, particularly for fighting crime (Sharingan's perception for looking for clues, hypnosis to see people's memories and determine culpability, etc.) so he gave them rather decent authority. If he outright hated the Uchiha with a passion, he wouldn't have wanted anything to do with them and just plotted to annihilate the rest of them, particularly with them not having their strongest shinobi ever. If a 14-year-old Itachi could kill them in one night, so could shinobi like Danzo, Hiruzen and the rest of his squad (minus Kagami, most likely). Not to mention that if he disliked the Uchiha to such an extent, he wouldn't have trusted even one of them to be part of his team. Sure, he would've been able to keep an eye on him, but again, he's a logical guy. Why would he be willing to take that risk during S-class missions? He also pleaded with Madara not to kill Sasuke, despite him having previously called the kid a scoundrel and believing that he could be another Madara. If he hated the Uchiha so much, what would he have cared what Madara did to Sasuke? If it was just because Sasuke was strong and could be an asset, well, again, Tobirama believed Sasuke could be another Madara, so after the war, there could've been another immediate problem for the Leaf. Tobirama hated the Uchiha, and for good reason, but never allowed that hatred to drive his actions. He was prejudiced against them and believed them to be capable of great damage to the village, but still gave them some authority within the village as a police force. His actions did ultimately sow the seeds for their destruction, but they just as easily could have led to their thriving in the village. The Uchiha weren't moved to the edge of the village until after the Nine Tails attack. That happened because the Uchiha were suspected of having taken control of the Tailed Beast. Part of the reason why is because of the Uchiha's own descent into abuse of power (the other part, of course, being Danzo who was influenced greatly by Tobirama). Had the Uchiha been a better police force and been generally more respected and liked, they would've seen their situation improve and could have seen someone like Itachi become Hokage (and he likely wouldn't have died because whatever ailed him would've been better medicated/treated in the village as opposed to being a rogue ninja). After all, only the village higher-ups believed it to have been a plot by the Uchiha (in one way being correct, but generally not and in large part without a whole lot of evidence), with the rest of the village believing it to have been a freak accident (and mistreating Naruto as a result of that belief). To sum up my doctoral thesis in Animenomics, Tobirama hated the Uchiha but not to insane degrees and not without reason. And what happened after his reign as Hokage were in large part due to the actions of others (even Danzo, though having been influenced by Tobirama, was still responsible for his own actions, particularly given that Hiruzen was also greatly influenced by Tobirama but actively sought to settle things diplomatically with the Uchiha). Thank you for coming to my TardTalk.
Pretty much accurate
Spitting.
Facts
DId you eve read NOVELS.They KNEW and had EVIDENCE of staging a coup.The Coup had little chances of being avoided.Higher Ups had ALOT OF EVIDENCES thansk predominatly to Itachis and Shisuis intel alongside balck ops who monitored movemnets of Uchiha members.The Higerups could se and knew that something is coockingad tat something is DEFFINETLY GOING ON BY JUST SIMPLY FOLLOWING UCHIHAS MOVEMENT.WHAT COMFIRMED THEIR SUSPICIONS AND GAVE AN ANSWER TO UCHIHAS SUSPICIOUS FREQENT MOVEMNETS/GATHERINGS WAS THE INTEL FORM ITACHI AND SHISUI.ITACHIS AND SHISUIS INTEL SECURED AND GAVE FULL PICTURE AND IN THAT ALSO GAVE AN IREFUTABLE EVIDENCE THAT UCHIHAS ARE GOING FOR THE COUP.
When did I say that the village higher-ups didn't have evidence of the Uchiha coup? The only time I said that they didn't have evidence of something was when talking about the Nine-Tails attack, which happened roughly a decade before the planned coup and clan massacre; well before Itachi or Shisui were ninja, let alone trusted Anbu spies.
It’s interesting that Tobirama had no love for the Uchiha clan, yet was able to make an exception for Kagami and make him his student. I would’ve love to see some scenes between Kagami and Tobirama.
BUT TOBIRAMA DIDNT HAVE PURE HATRED TOWARDS UCHIHAS EIGHTER.
It wasn't just Kagami, there were others
We needed a prequel of Naruto
You see this with racist ppl irl. They always have a few black friends that they consider “one of the good ones@
@@masamune5710 except that he genuinely acknowledged Kagami and quite a few others as well
I mean you can't blame him. He spent a majority of his developing years against them and lost nearly all of his siblings to them. It's understandable he would be weary towards them. The same way the Uchiha would be weary of the Senju.
I know right. Its normal for him to be cautious against the Uchiha considering that he was fighting against them for most of his life..
Uchiha supporters swingin rn
I can blame him💀weary and hating are two different things. i cant respect him as a hokage for making decisions from fear and hate, as a kage he is supposed to protect EVERYBODY in the village and the uchiha are apart of that everybody
It would be mostly fair but he took it to the extreme when he removed them from the government and started the crowd hate at the same time, he set up everything Danzo capitalized on and it wasn't an accident
Tobirama gave them a lot of authority by being the village's police force. That is smack in the middle of the government. Also Tobirama had an Uchiha in his own personal team, which I may add he also died protecting Uchiha included.
Also another note he was also kinda right. More often the not the Uchiha started way to much strife anyway. Madara throwing his temper tantrum and betrayed/attacked the village. Maniupulated another Uchiha aka Tobi. Which led to more Leaf village deaths in the attack as well as the death of the Hokage. Later go on to help start the Akatsuki and even later on a new ninja world war. On an on a lesser side note, the Uchiha clan were ready to start a rebellion and take over the lead by force because they are generally unstable assholes.
A cool thing I noticed about Tobirama is that as a kid he looked exactly like Naruto, especially with his hair looking slightly blonde and Madara's younger brother Izuna looked exactly like Sasuke. It hints at the link between Hashirama with Naruto and Madara with Sasuke.
My personal theory is that Tsunade and Jiraiya are Minato's parents.
White + blonde could get a bright yellow, I think. And Minato looks like Jiraiya in my opinion. And Naruto looking A LOT like Tsunade's brother is just all the more reason for my theory.
@Amelia Watson lol Minato isn't an Uzumaki, which was one of the clans Tsunade was descended from. 😊
Nah bro look like bakugo
I think the main issue is that we saw how shitty Danzo was, and a lot of fans project that shitty image onto Tobirama, as if they’re the same.
I have always found this incredibly strange. Tobirama’s legacy was passed onto Hiruzen, not Danzo. Danzo only hated the uchiha because they were trying to steal the hokage position from him with their coup, and he envied their power.
In Tobirama’s last moments with his students, he chastised Danzo and said that he needed to stop competing with Hiruzen and put the village first.
Danzo ignored him completely and tried to assassinate Hiruzen multiple times, which would’ve weakened Konoha, just to get his position. It was never about Konoha for Danzo, it was about power.
Tobirama wanted anyone who just posed a threat to the village gone. If anyone actually *was* a threat - he would show them no mercy. Danzo was the biggest threat to Konoha out of all. He was on the inside, plotting to assasinate two hokage, working togheter with Konoha’s enemies, creating havoc in other countries in Konoha’s name without permission or without his kage’s knowlegde, putting Konoha children through a death camp. Tobirama would take his traitorous head off his shoulders.
Honestly I think Tobirama was one of the most practical and effective Hokage. He created the academy, Chunin exams and various jutzu including both Minato and Narutos signature moves.
Even his “hatred” of the Uchiha is pretty overblown. Was he wary of them, definitely but he had pretty solid reasons since they A killed a lot of his clan and B they have the power to control the 9 tails which could literally destroy the whole village. Think about how everyone was terrified of Naruto during the start of the series then transfer that to a entire clan who can do just as much damage.
Also it’s important to mention the reason he made the Uchiha police force. He told Sasuke the force was meant to put the Uchihas power/emotion into defending the whole village which makes sense why wouldn’t you have the strongest clan in that position. The Anbu dealt with more external affairs like assassinations, defending the Hokage and high risk missions.
Overall most of the things people associate with Tobirama hating Uchiha is with Danzo (Keep in mind Danzo would have been in power decades longer that Tobirama would be Hokage) and how he used Tobiramas policies to undermine the clan to the point they’d rebel.
1, Yes, and he also created the reanimation jutsu, a jutsu that he was told not to create by his brother and at the time hokage. A jutsu that would be used and implemented to not only bring about the end of the leaf, but of the whole world.
2, ??? By your own logic The Uchiha like madara would have equal a reason to "be wary" of the senju or especially Tobirama. Since A they killed a lot of his family and, technically more by the end of the day. Since it was his last brother that got murdered. And B the senju's have shown the capabilities to also control the 9 tails, since it was a senju to begin with that had the power to seal and control the 9 tails, and the other tailed beast at that.
3, So... he used them for his benefit and constructed a position for them as a monolith of a people(s). This is one of many examples of systematic oppression that That his policies have created.
@@darryljack6612 You mean the reanimation Jutzu that was also used to bring back the 4 Hokage and without them the Shinobi alliance would have all been whipped out by the ten tails? That was also made forbidden by Tobirama because that’s actually what Hashirama said to do because it was already made? If the jutzu wasn’t made the 4th war would have happened either way, the ten tail would be revived and the Hokage wouldn’t be able to save a Shinobi force.
Let’s go over the Senju who can control tailed beast Hashirama. Ok now the Uchiha, Madara, Obito, Sasuke, Itachi, Fugaku and just about any Uchiha with a MS. So safe to say the Uchiha would be the bigger concern here especially since both Madara and Obito actually tried to destroy Konoha this way and the only one who could counter it was dead at the time or died stopping it.
The Uchiha could still join the academy, become Ninja, become representatives on the council (like Fugaku) and gain pretty high standing given how one even worked with Tobirama. It wasn’t like “Hey uchiha you guys have to be police and can’t do anything else” it’s like how the Yamanaka clan are in charge of the sensory unit but they aren’t restricted to that. The only instances we see the Clan being suppressed is when Danzo forces them to the outskirts of the village, suppresses Fugakus achievements during the 3rd war, and makes the Uchiha spot on the council irrelevant.
@@RandomPersonProbably
???
1 No it wouldnt have, because it was responsible for the war in the first place. Without that jutsu Madara's plan doesnt work. He only puts said plan into motion because he knows its existence. Its what allowed madara to come back to even put the tentails into obito and then into himself. And it prolonged and made the war only more difficult and lasting. You remove it, and all Tobi have to use is the white zetsu, which would have been much of a threat. THE JUTSU WAS FORBIDDEN, which means he betrayed his brother who is also his hokage by developing it further. The jutsu aside from one instance has never been used for good or protection. Saying he isnt responsible, is like saying the person who delvelops a weapon of mass destruction against all better judgement, does not share blame for its carnage. Orochimaru experimented on hundreds of people just to further it, then he used it to kill the hokage and potentially destroy the leaf. Kabuto uses it to wage a world war, and madara uses it in the grand scheme for his revival to comeback to life. To only look at the one good example but to ignore the several other horrible example that led up to it is short sighted. Its like saying the atom bomb is a good thing, because it helped when a 1 war.
2, But the example is still there, to judge the action of some in a group and then to apply it to the all is discrimination, and funny enough all of the examples you listed only happen because of tobirama and the actions he put into place and his own discrimination, that was only furthered and fostered through out generations.
3, Sigh...He Denoted and delegated them, he saw the Uchiha as only a monolith, look at the examples you listed, unless they were willing to die for the village, the only place an uchiha had was as apart of the police force which only served to do busy grunt work. Not anything real or contributing. His policies that were created through his biases are what drove them to the outskirts of the village, and what kept them separate from its main body. Its literally systematic discrimination, taken over the period of generations
@@darryljack6612 Aaahhh I get it you must not of read the manga or watched the anime. No worries I got you
1) Nope, Madaras plan was to use Nagatos Renigan to bring himself back to life hence why he gave them to him and why Tobi was angry that he used it on Konoha. Tobi didn’t even meet with Kabuto until after he declared war on the Shinobi alliance and was planning to use White zetsy as his army. This was flat out stated multiple times. No he didn’t defy his brothers wishes he did not develop it further after it become forbidden. But yea because he invented one jutzu that he then made forbidden but was used by evil people negates everything else. All the people Naruto saved with Shadow clones? Nah. All the villagers Minato saved with flying raijin from a Uchiha controls 9 tails? Nah. All the shinobi saved by the reanimated 4 kage, who also convicted Sasuke to what to help the village, reanimated Itachi defeating Kabuto making him good and becoming the head of an orphanage. Nah! Man the guy who created Kunai must have beeen a cold hearted monster judging by all the people who died by kunai.
2) No there’s really not much of a comparison Hashirama never attacked the hidden leaf and is the only one who can use wood style. If say the entire senju clan could use wood style then you’d have a point but it was only an ability possessed by Hashirama where the entire uchiha clan can use the sharingan.
Also i find it more funny how in both scenarios I used Uchiha discrimination wasn’t involved at all. Madara attacked the village because the villagers including the Uchiha VOTED for Hashirama to be the first hokage. Instead of staying in Konoha accepting his villagers choices being a close advisor to the hokage to improve relations between senju and uchiha further he decided to attack the village (including his own clan) digging an even deeper hole for the uchiha that before.
Obitos just wanted the 9 tails to create the 10 tails and decided yo destroy the leaf while he was there, had nothing to do with uchiha discrimination.
3) Yea being willing to give your life for the village is surprisingly important to a village of ninja. To use Itachis point, the uchiha were more focused on clan pride than the village as a whole. The entire point of Tobirama giving them the police force was to make sure that pride went towards the benefit of the whole village. It’s not discrimination to put the strongest clan in charge of defense and promote people who are loyal to the whole village instead of just their clan. Hell he even respects Itachi and Kagami Uchiha for being loyal to the village and even tries to stop Madara from killing Sasuke. Tobirama makes a point to say everything was to benefit the leaf village which having the Uchiha (again the strongest clan) defending it would do.
Go back and watch the video, him putting them in charge of the police was malicious.
Tobirama created the 2 of the most impactful jutsu. Shadow clones and Edo Tensei.
Flying Raijin as well. Many more I can't remember atm.
COUGH HIRAISHIN COUGH!!!
Tobirama really is a character trapped between good and bad actions. He created a lot of problems but he also solved a lot.
Dude y’all don’t understand tobirama watch nchammer23’s channel he did no bad maybe the reanimation technique let’s be real tobirama is the best hokage maybe after Naruto bc obviously Naruto protects the world from well dying anyways some hokage feats of tobirama senju… the only rzn the leaf was able to get through the 1st great ninja war is they had a lot of money yk how they got that money? Hashirama caught all the tail beast and sold em to the other villages we know this but hashirama wanted to hand them out like candy and tobirama was like no make profit then hashirama was like sure.. Next we know how there’s a chunin exams ninja academy well that’s so kids don’t die in wars like the warring states period who made that tobirama three man teams.. tobirama… made many techniques then after the warring states period he banned his own technique does not sound very bad action like to me… Also there’s this huge misconception that tobirama is racist we seen with shisuis grandfather tobirama isn’t racist in fact the only person who he inheritingly didn’t like who was an uchia was madara (when the leaf was established) and for spoiler alert for good mf reason and also when tobirama says “your possessed by uchia evil”he was tb madaras evil I thought it was common sense when they basically said indura madara and sasuke is the same person I’d think it be common sense to think a genius would find similarities there and basically say you have the spirit of madara anyways stop hating on ma boy tobirama now u wanna talk racist let’s talk “Golden Frieza the last thing you’ll ever see”
Tobirama is moral gray character
Honestly, I like Tobirama as a character. I think because he's aligned with the Leaf and he is Hashirama's brother people expect them to have similar personalities. To me, Tobirama isn't a hero type. He's an anti-hero. As you stated in the video, Tobirama is very logical and everything his does is for the sake of the village. Unlike Hashirama, Tobirama isn't naive in the slightest. If he thinks someone is a threat then he treats them accordingly. Tobirama also has nice drip as well.
He is very realistic. He’s a good character that keeps idealistic people like Hashirama grounded in reality. Let’s face it if Hashirama didn’t have Tobirama, the Leaf Village wouldn’t have lasted very long. While Hashirama deserves all the credit in the world for being a founding father of the Hidden Leaf Village, Tobirama deserves credit for being pragmatic and creating the infrastructure of the Hidden leaf village like the Academy, Chunnin Exams, and the police force.
My favourite Naruto character. He's complex and his actions impacted the world in a way no one else's did. Also his design is badass.
Tobirama was right in his assessment of the Uchiha. They WERE manipulated by evil. Black Zetsu was manipulating them. The reason none appeared after Madara was because there was still a plan for Madara.
but splitting them from the village also made it easier for black zetsu.
@@YellowPenetrator in what way?
@@CJ-111 think about it. separating them literally added fuel to the fire. not as involved with the village other than serving as ninja police which they all knew was only to keep watch on them.
@@C33b3310 there were 2 other Hokage to follow that done the exact same thing though.
@@CJ-111 yes but they just didnt change it. the seperation took almost all social benefit away that the village could be giving them.
now think about why the village was created in the first place.
to eliminate the seperation and therefore the possibility for war between senju and uchiha.
Tobirama is judged somewhat unfairly in this video. Their idea that is the will of fire, is what Tobirama strived for. Unfortunately most Uchiha were trapped into this system where they valued the clan more than the village. That's the reason why he felt some enmity towards them. When you see all the other clans in Konoha, be it the Hyuga who sacrifed a son to avoid war and all others who held the village first, you see how the will of fire came first in their hearts. All hearts but Uchiha.
Tobirama knew this, so he made arrangements that the selfish people that were the Uchiha would not be in position of much power early on. It's is just a misfortune that the good Uchiha died early. Kagami at 25, Shisui at 16 and Itachi at 21. They never got the opportunity to do as much good since they simply didn't last. Even though two of the deaths were a product of the Elders.
Also the way he mentioned the Sharingan was correct. The eye evolves from a feeling if wanting to protect something they love. And it further evolves when they loose that something they love. It's is the case for all of the Mangekyo we see. And other than Shisui, we see how the Mangekyo negatively affected their wielders. Kakashi became darker and more deadly than he was, Itachi accepted the idea of killing everyone but sasuke, Obito gave up on the world as a whole, Sasuke became darker and sought destruction, ignoring the the wishes of the one he loved most. As such in essence he was right about the Mangekyo and the normal Sharingan.
I know he treated the Uchiha with spite and more severity than they deserved, but in his own words as second Hokage he had to balance the love and compassion of Hashirama with the ruthlessness of Madara. He saw both of these characters as right to some degree. All he desired was to avoid conflict. Yet in the Ninja world, conflict is a fact of life. One they simply can't escape from.
From what we see the enmity of the Uchiha towards the leaf came after the attack on Konoha. In earnest, the leaf elders were some what right to suspect the Uchiha. After all they were the only ones capable in their knowledge to free a tailed beast and control it. Unfortunately their later actions were all sorts of wrong and downright evil.
Tobirama didn't hate the Uchiha. He hated that they put the clan before the Village.
Big take, but a damn good take.
@@Duplicitousthoughtformentity thanks mate
"He didnt hate the Uchiha- he hated that they put the clan before the village"
I think we found Sage's apprentice.
Bad take , they put the clan before, because of Tobirama action, if you feel discriminated, of course you will stick with your people.
And we see this kind of things in real life. You can’t blame the Uchiha for that when they have a leader that feel some hatred and wariness towards them.
I mean the Uchiha put the village before, when Madara wanted to leave.
@Rashad Crenshaw EXACTLY !!!
For me Tobirama is the true nature of a waterbender but he lives by the raging waves for Tobirama growing up in a time of war and losing all of his family, his heart turned into a water dragon a ferocious and destructive spirit.
Tobirama’s fear, weariness as well as prejudice towards the rival clan that’s all he’s known for alienating and destroying a potential brotherhood by being casted aside within Konoha.
His heart was driven by what’s necessary not hiding it behind the same empathetic layer that Hashirama had.
I felt like he should've had ice style as an added power
Crazy how we hardly ever see him even use water style unless I'm forgetting something. Only time I remembered him doing it was against hiruzen
I agree with this take, minus the prejudice part because the Uchihas do have documented history of rebelling and staging coups (so his apprehensiveness wasn't unfounded). Also, you can't say the Uchihas were "oppressed". Financially, they were probably on par with the Hyugas (who were nobles) and there is not 1 Uchiha who was shunned by the whole village like what young Naruto had to endure. IMO, the Uchihas bought into their own delusions, and felt that it should be their clan, not the Senjus, at the Hokage seat. Which is entirely possible had their clan leader, Madara, didnt throw a hissy fit in always coming 2nd place to his bro Hashirama (hence why he left the village, spoken by himself), even though Hashirama ask him to co-rule together.
@@smcrevival1467 1st war after he reached adulthood vs the Uchihas. Water style jutsus were used as a build up to Izuna Uchiha's death.
@@smcrevival1467 he used water style a little bit in the war, it's his affinity though
As a leader he actually didn’t harm the Uchiha it was his students Danzo included that are responsible for alienating the Uchiha but his legacy is tainted by their actions.
Well its not like OUTSIDE OUT OF CONRTOL OF THE VILLAGE DIDNT MEDDLE IN IT BCS THEY DID.THE WHOLE 9 TAILS ATTACH IS WHAT MADE DANZOS NAD OTEHRS PUSH FOR ALIENATION AND WHO ORCHASTRATED 9 TAILS ATACK?????DEFFINETLY NOT TOBIRAMA NOR DANZO. IN REAL LIFE IF LETS SAY IN YOUR NEIGHBORHHOD YOU KNOW THEE IS ONLY ONE WELL KNOWN NOTORIOUS CRIMINAL THAT HAS BEEN CHARGED AND SENTENCED FOR EXPLOSIVES,ARSONITS.... AND THEN SUDDENLY YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD BLOWS UP NAD SEVERAL OF THE HOUSES GETS COMPLEATLY DESTROYED WITH HUGE CASUALTIES.WHAT WOULD RESIDENCE DO TEH FIRTS THING THEY WOULD POINT FINGERS AT WOULD BE AT THAT CONVICTED CRIMINAL.THEN THE NEWS WOULD FOLLOW AND MAKE A DRAMA STORY OUT OF IT,THEN THE AUTHORETIES FIRST SUSPECT WOULD IMMEDIETLY BE THAT CRIMINAL.THEN THE NEXT THING WOULD BE TEH RESIDENTS OF THE NEIGBORHOOD WOUDL START GOSSIPING,CURSING,BERATING,ATTACKIG THAT CRIMINAL,THEN NEXT THERE WOULD BE AN OUTCRY AND DEMAND TO LOCAL GOVERNOR TO LOCK THAT CRIMINAL UP FOR LIFE INSINUATING THAT HE WAS THE CAUSE AND THEY ALREDY SENTENCED HIM WITHOUT ANY EVIDENCE......BUT HEY WHO AM I TO SAY ANYTHING.
@@goranstojanov1160 Not outside his control. Danzo was his student, Tobirama thought him his ways and influenced him a lot. That's why both of them are trash
@@goranstojanov1160 chill with the capitals bro like why are you yelling
@@filipgasic2642 by your logic madara and obito are like the biggest trash in the show, with itachi alongisde
@@filipgasic2642 Danzo was not his student. His students were Hiruzen and the 2 elders. Danzo even goes against the beliefs of Hiruzen, passed from Tobirama. He mentions it in the Kage Summit. He bragged his way is diferent.
IMO he’s a great hokage. He’s smart and logical and I’ve always wanted to see more of Tobirama.
Also he’s said it’s not only the uchihas he treated anyone anyone who posses a threat to the village no matter which clan with extreme caution.
I think tobirama acknowledged that there were Uchiha who were exceptions and In his defence the Uchiha going crazy in power was such a common place that they had to create a jutsu specifically for dealing with them the izanami
Ikr? how could you not be concerned about the clan know for killing they closest friend to gain power, to kill their family to attain even more power, and rewrite the reality they didn't like? I would be concerned to let such clan run my village.
He knew they could be better, after all they turn their back to madara once in favor to the village, probably why he had an Uchiha in his team, but didn't had a solution to fix the uchiha's hate.
I think while his handling of the situation wasn’t the best, the uchiha were still probably the most dangerous clan in a setting like the shinobi world. Since the uchiha are incredibly sensible individuals, losing a loved one would not only make them emotional but it may also increase their hate and the power of their eyes. Being in constant wars would surely increase the number of people who died which would also include people who some of the uchiha considered dearly. Taking this into account, we can assume that many uchiha likely became threats to the leaf. We are even told that the uchiha had a civil war with the whole izanagi thing. This puts the uchiha in a difficult position because while they are still citizens of the leaf and should be treated as such, having the ability to gain power when hit with tragedy is surely an element to be wary since many of us don’t think clearly in such a state. Even tobirama himself admitted that many uchiha fell to the curse of hatred when they lost someone important. I do think that the only way the issue would have been solved is to negotiate peace with the other nations to prevent the least amount of people from dying which he did attempt with the cloud village but was sabotaged by kinkaku and ginkaku.
or let the uchiha have there own village in the humongest land of fire, the daymio would be happy, two millitary village to protect them but the uchiha can be serious threat, so the land of fire would problaly have spied on the uchiha too at some point especially in a waring state when any of them can go south at any point. i agree peace is the only option to them.
@@Iondaime100 its a 1 village per country system. Having 2 villages would mean civil war, only 1 can exist. And with Hashirama on the Senju side and his ability to make many friends things didn't look that good for the Uchiha (although Madara using Kurama could had worked).
Any clan that was dangerous in the Naurto universe is essentially exterminated like the Uzumakiʻs.
@@yurichtube1162 Hashirama solo'd Madara with Kurama though
my favourite hokage and the one whose survival could have had significant ramifications on the story.
remember all decisions he made were during the first shinobi war where his brother died and every first and second generation kage perished. Everything he did was as war measures and to promote peace.
He put in place institutions and policies to establish the leaf village as a stable and prosperous economy and assured the strength of Konoha as any decent kage of a military village should do.
Wonder what you feel about his sacrifice?
Yeah POEPLE FORGET that stuff liek Police task force and Village concept NEVER EXISTED AND THEY CREATED/IVENTEDIT FOR THE FIRTS TIME SO EVEN CREATORS DONT KNOW THE PRONS AND CONS FULLLY OF THEIR OWN CREATION BCS IT WAS NEVER DONE BEFORE NOR ANYONE DID IT SO THEY COULD SEE SOME PROS AND CONS BEFOREHAND.
Tobirama was pragmatic and necessary. He may not have been popular but decisions should not be made on popularity, but in the best interest overall
@@Vietmac1993 very well put Tobirama was impressively unbiased and logical in his decision making and he set up the leaf to prosper
Madara’s Hokage MO was to take over the rest of the world by force and rule with his mindset and perspective of reality. Tobirama was the lesser of two evils in that regard.
Dude y’all don’t understand tobirama watch nchammer23’s channel he did no bad maybe the reanimation technique let’s be real tobirama is the best hokage maybe after Naruto bc obviously Naruto protects the world from well dying anyways some hokage feats of tobirama senju… the only rzn the leaf was able to get through the 1st great ninja war is they had a lot of money yk how they got that money? Hashirama caught all the tail beast and sold em to the other villages we know this but hashirama wanted to hand them out like candy and tobirama was like no make profit then hashirama was like sure.. Next we know how there’s a chunin exams ninja academy well that’s so kids don’t die in wars like the warring states period who made that tobirama three man teams.. tobirama… made many techniques then after the warring states period he banned his own technique does not sound very bad action like to me… Also there’s this huge misconception that tobirama is racist we seen with shisuis grandfather tobirama isn’t racist in fact the only person who he inheritingly didn’t like who was an uchia was madara (when the leaf was established) and for spoiler alert for good mf reason and also when tobirama says “your possessed by uchia evil”he was tb madaras evil I thought it was common sense when they basically said indura madara and sasuke is the same person I’d think it be common sense to think a genius would find similarities there and basically say you have the spirit of madara anyways stop hating on ma boy tobirama now u wanna talk racist let’s talk “Golden Frieza the last thing you’ll ever see”
Very true
Tobirama is very much a product of his time.
He doesn’t hate them: he was wary of their deep connection to the dark side. That being said, a few Uchiha were able to overcome their curse of hatred and came through the portal with the rest of the avengers to save Goku from Superman.
Dude y’all don’t understand tobirama watch nchammer23’s channel he did no bad maybe the reanimation technique let’s be real tobirama is the best hokage maybe after Naruto bc obviously Naruto protects the world from well dying anyways some hokage feats of tobirama senju… the only rzn the leaf was able to get through the 1st great ninja war is they had a lot of money yk how they got that money? Hashirama caught all the tail beast and sold em to the other villages we know this but hashirama wanted to hand them out like candy and tobirama was like no make profit then hashirama was like sure.. Next we know how there’s a chunin exams ninja academy well that’s so kids don’t die in wars like the warring states period who made that tobirama three man teams.. tobirama… made many techniques then after the warring states period he banned his own technique does not sound very bad action like to me… Also there’s this huge misconception that tobirama is racist we seen with shisuis grandfather tobirama isn’t racist in fact the only person who he inheritingly didn’t like who was an uchia was madara (when the leaf was established) and for spoiler alert for good mf reason and also when tobirama says “your possessed by uchia evil”he was tb madaras evil I thought it was common sense when they basically said indura madara and sasuke is the same person I’d think it be common sense to think a genius would find similarities there and basically say you have the spirit of madara anyways stop hating on ma boy tobirama now u wanna talk racist let’s talk “Golden Frieza the last thing you’ll ever see”
@@BrysonLIA stop spamming. Also Nchammer is worst naruto content maker.
@@allipse8224 bro responded a whole year late tb spamming😂
@@allipse8224 He's actuallu pretty good. He dives deep and concisely into Naruto topics and plotholes
One word that defines Hasirama: Love
One word the defines Tobirama: Fear
Love had the potential to end the war between Senju and Uchiha, as well as set everything ablaze... Fear had its guarantee.
Tobirama gave the uchiha the position of “police force” as a show of good faith, not a slight.
The Uchiha slayer, the sharingan conqueror ... The GOAT
10:52
Tobirama: "Elder Brother, you cannot decide who will be next Hokage on your own!"
Also Tobirama: "Hiruzen, my man, thank god you spoke up before that filthy Uchiha Kagami. I personally name you as my successor because I want to! "
Make a philosophy or morality of Darth kreia video. I know it's already out there, but the way this channel depicts nuanced views is so powerful to me. This is my favorite UA-cam channel. This is the first channel I would sub to on patreon if I wasn't struggling financially, and as a young man in 2022, I've been on UA-cam for years.
Tobirama was the perfect example of what Danzo should have been. Hashirama would have made a lot of terrible decisions for the Leaf if it hadn't been for the smarts provided by Tobirama. Danzo could have been there to provide valuable insight to Hiruzen but he didn't because he was a self obsessed loser. Tobirama did everything that Danzo did, but in the right way. The Anbu and forbidden jutsu he had were used with the safety of the Leaf always being first priority. However, Danzo was a selfish power hungry idiot. Danzo did not need Shisui's eyes, as those eyes were best kept with Shisui, who was a highly valuable asset in protecting the Leaf. Danzo forced him into a position of killing himself, thus weakening the Leaf. That's an outstandingily stupid move and super reckless! Tobirama did opposite with Shisui's grandfather, Kagami Uchiha, as he worked with him because he saw Kagami's devoted loyalty to the Leaf. Danzo was perfectly willing to kill off members of the Leaf (such as getting Orochimaru to experiment on Leaf orphans for wood style) and that defeats the whole purpose of protecting the Leaf. Why kill the people you wanted to protect?!?!! Tobirama had the reanimation jutsu and a brother who was the strongest ninja at the time. If Danzo was in this position, then he would first backstab Hashirama by trying to kill him off then experimenting on his body to steal wood style for self, while at the same time he would spam the crap out of the reanimation jutsu using Leaf citizens as unwilling sacrifices.
Tobirama did the whole 'darkness within light' thing properly.
Bro wrote a youtube comment dissertation. 💀
Bro has returned... again. 💀
Tobirama cared so much about his village, that instead of going to fight against Cloud Village after his brother died, he instead went there for a truce to have the time to stabilize his village after the First Great Ninja War, where Cloud attached Leaf
Truly an interesting man he was! It's rare to see a man of his IQ and rational thinking
Why would Tobirama attack the Cloud Village after Hashirama died?
Hey Sage thanks for THIS specific video. Tobirama is such a deep character but is so overlooked even by the writers. He is my favourite Hokage and I really appreciate your objective view of him. Amazing content!
Tobirama is misunderstood to me I used to hate him and used to think he hates the uchiha but he actually didn’t he was just wary because of Madara.
And he was completely right about Madara in the end
@@kattyRL yet an ironic thing is that Tobirama's action quided Uchiha act like he envisioned.
It was a self fufilling prophecy, if you deny representation in a government to a group of people but at the same time use them for basic services theyre obviously gonna get pissed
@@kattyRL No he wasn't he was completely wrong about Madara. Hashirama was the one that was right. Tobimara’s actions is what led to Madara rebelling and the Uchiha losing faith.
@@diamantemrobinson Thank you!
Madara was also indirectly responsible for the massacre. He betrayed the villiage whitch further cemented Tobiramas view of the Uqiha and left him wielding all the power. Madara made Obito which was the one to kill all the woman and children. Madara cared more about fulfilling his ideology then his clan and he knew he was sacrificing them went he left the leaf.
It's so interesting how we get fond of characters that have our strongest traits. His practicality and analytical mindset is cold but extremely effective.
I love Sage’s nuanced perspective framing ideas I’ve grown up with so well. The work itself is inspirational, and the content is fascinating to see another person’s view
I find it interesting that one of Tobirama's 2 top students was Danzo. Danzo's seemingly inherited 'pragmatism' created the Leaf's greatest threat in Sasuke who had grown so sick of the world that he'd decided to destroy the system and build it from the ground up (after trying to destroy the leaf ofc). All in all, despite bringing things like solid jutsu and infrastructure to the leaf, I think Tobirama ironically ended up doing way more harm than good by indirectly orchestrating the Uchiha clan downfall and by creating this toxic version of the will of fire that was embodied by people like Danzo
Facts, for me he is one of the worst kage
@@donrog5035 Him and Hiruzen. How is Hiruzen gonna promise Minato and Kushina he'll take care of Naruto then just let him grow up the way he did? He also failed the Uchiha completely and passed up on Fugaku even being a hokage candidate despite apparently being pivotal in the war like Minato
@@lordtt3984 indeed
I'm only 2:35 in, but I do want to say something.
I think the 6 he was training himself were meant to be the leaders of their respective clans.
I mean, think about it, the 2 strongest clans other than the Senju were represented there in Hiruzen and Kagami. And I think those 6 were to be the seeds that eventually bring about a harmony in the Village. I honestly think Kagami was Tobirama's trump card when it came to the Uchiha, I believe he wanted him to grow and become the Uchiha Clan Leader in the future. And I believe Hiruzen was chosen as Hokage simply because he was probably the only one among them who was most likely to continue having a good relationship with the rest of the 6. This would also explain why Tobirama let himself die, because these children were to be the future of the leaf, and if everything went according to plan, he wouldn't have needed to be alive for the village to be stable.
Sadly, everything didn't go according to plan. Kagami died young (which I personally believe has something to do with Danzo), and one of the 6 fell to the way side causing much more harm than good.
Anyways, let me just watch the rest of the video.
Hiruzen was his student whereas Danzo and Kagami were part of his team for that very mission. If Kakashi was going to die and he had to choose someone from Naruto and his group of friends...100% he would go for a member of Team 7 instead of going for Shikamaru or Tenten. Similarly, if Might Guy had to choose, he's go for Lee or Neji instead of Naruto or Sasuke. Your students are a part of you and pseudo nepotism always kicks in.
The truth is tobirama never hated uchiha, it's a misconception. It's even told in anime that tobirama doesn't have any personal grudge against uchiha. It's just that he will destroy who are threat to village.
14:56 Saying best equipped mentally while showing this dude is wild.
My problem with Tobirama’s logic is that it’s completely from his line perspective and incredibly limited due to it. If Izuna had been given the chance to voice his side or if he’d been alive, he might have the same opinion against the senju that tobirama had against the Uchiha. At the end of the day, Tobiramas downfall was the same reason why Izuna died in that he could not see past his own prejudice. People liked to say Tobirama was more realistic and pragmatic, I’d honestly beg to differ. On the surface level, yes. But in the long term, Hashirama could foresee the ramifications of any actions further than Tobirama ever could or was willing to. Hashirama’s led with his emotion but deep down his choices were incredibly pragmatic and realistic. You don’t manage to build an entire village and forge peace out of dreams alone.
I’d argue that Tobirama was led more by emotion than Hashirama was. Manipulated by his own fathers misled antagonistic and prejudiced perspective against the Uchiha. He hides it behind a strict mask that appears practical but really it held more emotional reasoning than anyone (especially him) would like to admit
Tobirama at the end of the day is a complicated human being. But I really have to disagree with opinions that say he was more pragmatic and realistic compared to Hashirama. I genuinely believe if Hashirama had been given his way in electing Madara as hokage, a lot of grief would have been possibly averted. Especially since I genuinely don’t think it was a choice he wanted to make solely due to his emotional reasonings.
Madura being appointed by Hashirama would have destroyed the village. Most of the shinobi wanted Tobirama as hokage. I don't see Madura working well with anyone except his clan which would have unbalanced the peace within the village. As more people got disgruntled, the Uchiha, the police, would end up arresting more & more people (presumably non-Uchiha). As most shinobi didn't want Madura as hokage, they would have resisted his directions. Madura was never a "let's talk it out & compromise" kind of guy. He would have become more autocratic & depended more on his clan. People would turn to Hashirama for a solution, with a choice of (1) backing Madura which would damage his prestige & power in the village, weakening his ability to fix things and, more importantly, weakening his attempt at peace; or (2) not backing Madura which would have developed immediately into civil war. People would turn to Tobirama who would have to break his heart & turn against his last surviving brother, or break his soul to support something he knew was wrong. Both cases would probably end with a self-exile & the destruction of the village, even if it survived the immediate calamity of Madura as hokage. Without Tobirama there to implement the practical aspects of the village, much of its infrastructure, it could hardly last a generation or two.
My two cents at least. Curious to read how you think Hokage Madura would have turned out.
@@markuhler2664 I meant as first hokage instead of Hashirama. But to put that aside, the appointment of Tobirama indirectly set the course for the extinction of the Uchiha and if you are willing to tip that domino even further, set the course for the war.
Basically what I’m saying there’s a million what if’s going on here and I don’t think Madara as Hokage instead of Hashirama is the apocalyptic choice Tobirama and everyone else makes it out to be. I’m pretty sure the slaughter of a whole clan was not what everyone was expecting to happen down the line when Hashirama got appointed instead of Madara either.
Arguably Madara could have simply been the figurehead (which would have satisfied him) while having most state affairs be decided democratically between him, Hashirama, Tobirama and the other clan leaders the way it’s sort of done in Hiruzens time.
My point is just basically Tobiramas prejudice while not the only defining factor is among the things that set the course for the massacre that occurred to the Uchiha. My point is basically that Tobirama is not as pragmatic as many seem to make him out to be and arguably Hashirama has shown to have made better “pragmatic” decisions with more fortunate results in the long run compared to Tobi.
Hashirama told Tobirama to do one thing. Do not slight the Uchiha. And my dude did the one thing that would definitely set the course for having them slighted and for a man as smart as Tobi I can’t fanthom how he did not see that coming????
Basically I just don’t buy Tobiramas “logic”. I think we give him too much credit and don’t take his prejudice seriously enough
I don’t know if that makes sense. I’m typing on a bus so beware the typos.
The moment the uchiha started praying to that tablet it was a wrap… madara abandoned his clan twice and loved to war above all else, this lunatic would have destroyed the village and hashirama dream.
@@markuhler2664 Madara*
@@atiqahdiyana5665 I completely agree. Let's not forget that one, Madara was insecure about him even being fit for leading and two, from the dialogue between Hashi and Tobi that took place right after that scene we know that Uchihas were antagonized from the very time of foundation of the village. It's so weird to turn it around and put it on Madara.
Based on his interaction with young Ohnoki, Madara would probably be pretty imperialistic but shinobi have a world war every 20 years so I can't see him making it much worse anyway.
I clicked so fast, I cant even tell
There wasnt anything wrong with tobirama making the uchilla the police force, that just means he trusted their powers to be able to protect the citizens of the village. The uchilla themselves also had no issue if it.
What do you mean they had no problem with it? The story tells you multiple times that it was the seed of the problem and you just choose to disregard this? And it's not like Tobirama's intentions here were that good either.
@@Reality-Distortion The roots of the problem is that the Uchihas were greedy and never stopped being greedy. They were a powerful clan, yes and I believe that's what them made them believe in their own delusions of grandeur. They wanted more, even though they were living as comfortably (or maybe even more) as the aristocratic Hyuga clan (big houses and all). Remember, their clan leader, Madara even voluntarily left the village because he couldn't stand playing second fiddle to Hashirama even though Hashirama graciously gave him the opportunity to jointly rule the village with him.
Tobirama of course, acknowledged their power and talent but IMO, above all, I think he is most wary of their inherently greedy, jealous and extreme behaviour (as shown in Madara and origins of the Mangekyo itself).
+ tendency to rebel. If you were the Head of State and Government, you too, would be wary.
@@MF-dw9ti Where are you pulling that from?
Madara who didn't even want position of a leader was tired of being second fiddle?
Uchihas were greedy even though it's confirmed two times in the manga and 3 times in supplementary material that Tobirama created the Police to keep Uchihas away from obtaining political power? Not to mention how unfair and horrible their situation was after Obito's attack.
That doesn't make a lick of sense.
do you people really don't watch the video at all?? 6:29
@@cornelia7889 "Orochimaru evil, boo, he invalid" type of denial.
The 2nd hokage has some the greatest feats 🥶
It's true that much of what he did for the Uchiha was harsh and even cruel, however he was the backbone for the hidden Leaf. Hashirama had a dream and Tobirama helped make it happen.
Tobirama AND Madara are my most favorite characters because of their polarization. They are both fundimentaly so similar yet so completely different. The fact is that the Senju didn't have a specific Kekkei Genkai to fight the Uchiha with. They were most commonly known as "the clan of a thousand skills". Which to me means that they had people from all walks of life and background in their gene pool. Meaning that the Wood Style that Hashirama had was quite literally a needle in a haystack. One in a million not able to be passed down. So in this case it shouldn't have been called as such seeing as you couldn't gain it with Hashirama's cells.
The Uchiha were much more streamlined because of their bloodline being present in every member. Even the civilian members had the capacity if under the right circumstances. THAT was what made them both so proud and so feared because they were very powerful and if someone wanted the Sharingan then the had to marry in. Never out.
They were completely different on both sides yet the one thing they had in common was survival. Do whatever it takes to survive, while Tobirama loved and cared he showed it very subtle and not with any fanfare. Madara got in your face and shouted from across the field of battle.
They both cared but in very different ways. But having different ways of expression doesn't make them wrong. Yet these where what they knew and who they were.
I honestly believe that if Tobirama was allowed to properly learn about the Uchiha and their history and the Sharingan, then he would have had vastly different opinions on what he was so afraid of. Same with Madara, but also had Izuna managed to survive he wouldn't have been nearly so hateful.
Still, there are many aspects of their characters that I like and don't, but that's with any person.
I love watching these videos. Madara is still by far my favorite, Orochimaru being a close second. Still, these make me reflect on aspects of these characters that I didn't think of before and it's wonderful. You're awesome at what you do and don't let anyone tell you otherwise!!!👍💖✨
His fear of an uchiha rebelion made him take actions that actually lead to an Uchiha rebellion. Just as Oogway said "One often meets his destiny on the road he takes to avoid it".
Perfectly describes tobirama
A man often meets his fate while on the road he takes to avoid it.
EXACTLY!
Tobirama is too short sighted
Tobirama is an example of hero with the qualities of villain
He is my favorite Hokage by far
Bro EXCELLENT video. I love Tobirama and I hate when ppl blame him for everything or disrespect him. All of your points and criticisms were very fair and accurate I couldn’t argue against any of them, but you also gave credit where it was due. I love the way you laid them out without any bias! Great analysis of his character and his tenure as Hokage. I’ve had this video in my Naruto playlist for a while and I’m made Im just now watching it. I also agree he has the coldest fit, with Minato just below him. Minato has the best Hokage jacket tho no debate
I think he was the best hokage from the original series. He made some of the coolest jutsus and had the coolest design of the hokage.
Sheeesh another sage rain video on Naruto. Let’s goooooo 🔥❤️
idk why tobirama got labeled “racist” or uchiha hater. when he got reanimated, he said nothing but good things about the clan themselves. it was the curse of hatred that he was negatively speaking about.
honestly i feel like he had the most difficult position during his time. he said he had to be the balance between hashirama’s naivete and madara’s skepticism while also dealing with other extremist personalities (danzo and hiruzen). god knows how much bullshit he had to go through to make the village thrive. he’s a very complex character and i think thats why people dont like him 🤷🏼♀️ he did more than their fave hokages and their fave chars rely on his jutsus 🤷🏼♀️
Are you sure he only said bad things about the Uchiha? He literally said that they are an evil clan with a malicious mental patient
Tobirama supremacy goat... The best hokage...
You can argue that the Uchiha feel great degree of passion and not love. Love Is a near indomitable force that can’t and shouldn’t replaced by hatred so easily.
Look at Hashirama’s love and how even grief was a constant in his formative years, he never truly wavers or turns into a megalomaniac.
The clan automatically have Fire Release. Fire is the element of Passion not Love. Like Fire passion consumes and if not put in check it becomes and inferno (in this case hatred is the inferno).
The element(s) that best represent Love is Earth and Water. Hard to break like earth and versatile af like water.
Interesting perspective
What about Wind and Lightning?
@@NightRyder19 wind is probably freedom or something
@@quentinjones6877 I think Wind is unpredictability. Naruto has wind and what is he ?
Unpredictable.
@@NightRyder19 but he's one out of a small percentage that has wind in the leaf village, Minato had wind too as one of his chakra natures
Okay I see you with that hallow knight soundtrack in the background. Honestly pretty fitting for the topic.
While Shisui is my favorite character in Naruto but Tobirama is my second and Sasuke is my third and it's because of each of their wills. Tobirama, to provide and protect the village from any would be threats. Sasuke, to revolutionize the Shinobi world to bring upon an era of Peace even if he is hated. Shisui, to protect the village and his clan discreetly and with a smile on his face, facing the problems between the clan and the village with only he and his best friend at his side.
Itachi's hate did grow upon gaining the Mangekyo. But what he hated wasn't other people, it was himself and the system. He also did hate the Konoha elders. The difference is that Itachi didn't act upon this hatred.
The way I pressed play faster than the flying raijin
My favourite Kage. Diplomatic. Intelligent. Ruthless.
He stands up there with Minato in terms of swag
Tobirama is the only one knows most about Uchihas Sharinggan through their feelings he study it well
When we're introduced to the Naruto world the Uchiha and Senju clans we're both on the brink of extinction.
I wonder if there was true equality between the two clans would they both be strong clans now?
Both clans burned hot only to burn themselves out.
Tobirama was right. He was and always will be my favourite Hokage.
Still don't understand why people think he hated Uchiha,he did nothing unfair against them,creating Uchiha Police force was actually a good idea for both,the village and the Uchiha. It's not Tobirama's foult that Danzo and Hiruzen fucked everthing up.
The police is an executive institution that is under the administration of the village and therefore they do not have any political or administrative position even though they are among the founders of the village. How is this a good idea?!
Great video both visually and story telling, a 50 out of 10, nothing less than amazing, really wonderful.
Tobirama may be the greatest shinobi who ever lived (not in terms of strength, but in terms of influence and revolutionizing the world of shinobi)
He was the one who came up with the idea of a truce between the Senju and the Uchiha when he was talking to Hashirama and Itama in their childhood, which led to the founding of the village of Konoha. He is considered the true founder of Konoha and the person who has the most influence on Hashirama.
Tobirama is the true Godfather of the village, the one who built Konoha and who made it strong, cohesive and organized. He was the Hokage behind the scenes during the reign of Hashirama. He was the one who worked politically, while Hashirama's role was limited to protecting the village from enemies, like Madara. He was the true Hokage during his brother's reign. Because Hashirama is an idiot and does not know political work.
Tobirama was a unique and rare personality who influenced the entire world of shinobi. One of the basics of his work as Hokage was to unify the forces of the clans to which the Konoha shinobi belonged, strengthen their affiliation to the village above all else, renounce absolute loyalty to the clan, and cultivate a spirit of harmony, cooperation, and solidarity between the clansmen and the people of the village of Konoha. Because of Tobirama, strong cohesion was formed between the Konoha clans and we began to see teams such as Ino - Shika - Cho
Tobirama is the teacher of the first generation of Konoha and the one who instilled in them and in the following generations the will of fire he is the teacher of Hiruzen, Danzo, Homura, Koharu, Kagami, Torifu, and those who came after them in generations, they are the nucleus of Tobirama's work, Jiraiya, the Sannin, Minato, Sakumo, Kakashi, Obito, Rin, and all the shinobi of Konoha, perhaps they will never become what they are. If it weren't for Tobirama and his hard work in perpetuating the village's spirit of love and familiarity among everyone..
Tobirama was the one who trusted Kagami Uchiha and passed down to him the will of fire, He relied on him in difficult missions and praised him, He was an example of the Uchiha who loved the village and whom put it’s interests above the interests of his clan, He respected and appreciated Tobirama’s work he understood and was aware of the importance of what he was doing in uniting the clans and building strong foundations for the village. In order for Konoha to endure for many years, he chose the Uchiha to be the military police force for Konoha because they mastered this work and were the most skilled and because they were a strong clan and he wanted to invest their efforts and strength in serving the village so that they would become heroes and the subject of respect for all the residents of the village, and thanks to Tobirama the will of fire was transferred from Kagami. To Shisui, from Shisui to Itachi, from Itachi to Sasuke and from Sasuke to Sarada, all of these people were credited to Tobirama for making them loyal to the village and surpassing the curse of hatred that they inherited from their Uchiha clan. All of these legendary Uchiha Shinobis appreciate and respect Tobirama, and they are the product of his school and philosophy.
Tobirama is the reason for creating a successful career for both Minato and Naruto. If it were not for Tobirama, Minato would not have been able to become a great hero who sacrificed his life for the sake of the village, and Konoha would not have been able to win the Third Shinobi World War if it had not been for Tobirama’s technique, the Flying Thunder God . And if it had not been for Tobirama, Naruto would not have been able to win many battles. and he couldn’t have learned the Rasengan, Rasen Shuriken, and Sage Mode and he wouldn’t be able to defeat Kaguya and save the world, all thanks to Tobirama and his invention of the shadow clone technique.
Tobirama is the person who loves his village more than any Hokage or shinobi in it, and even more than his brother Hashirama! Yes, he was the only Hokage who took the initiative to prepare to attack Sasuke after he threatened to destroy the village of Konoha, and he was the only Hokage who took the initiative when hearing the news of Madara's return, had his movement not been restricted by Orochimaru while Hashirama and the others were telling stories in the middle of the Fourth Shinobi World War !
Tobirama invented the entire ninja system, he invented the ninja academy, he invented the Chunin test, he invented the ANBU (intelligence agencies in the ninja world), the military police, and all the other villages in the shinobi world they benefited from his systems, copied them, and benefited from his techniques.
Tobirama was always looking for peace, so he did not hesitate to make a peace treaty with the Hidden Cloud Village and sacrificed himself in order to protect his village, his students, and the survival of the next generation and the generations after that.
Yes, so I am not exaggerating when I say that Tobirama is the greatest shinobi who ever lived in the history of the Naruto universe, and many things would not have exist without him. He is truly very great, and I am not exaggerating when I say that he is greater than Hagoromo.
Man I love your Naruto videos! You're awesome bro!
6:02 Yours truly didn't call Sasuke a scoundrel, it was meant for Orochimaru. Of course you'd stick with a scoundrel since you're an Uchiha VS of course you're an Uchiha scoundrel. So much is said between the lines, this wasn't one of those. This was crystal clear.
The leaf Police force wasn't formed so that Yours truly can keep an eye on them. It was created so that the Uchihas can focus on protecting the village with authority and if another Madara ever emerges then the leaf police force can handle it themselves before push comes to shove. That way, they won't feel bad that a Senju or any other clan for that matter prosecuted a member of their clan. Did things go wrong? Yes, it did. But the intentions weren't bad.
thank you 🙏🏻 in reality, he trusted the clan to take care of their own members who may have gotten out of hand rather than getting others involved
This is honestly the best analysis I've ever seen on Tobirama. Great work ^^
Tobirama would never carry the weight and prestige of his older brother, but near everything he did was in service to his brother's vision. He had a different approach and personality but he bought into the idealistic hope that Hashirama exuded, which makes the tension between Senju and Uchiha as he ascends to Kage all the more tragic. Hope is powerful but delicate, and his desire to preserve that hope ran up against his distrust of former enemies.
For my money Hiruzen is still the most interesting Kage, but Tobirama is a pretty good look into how the cold and calculating mind can cloud the judgement of an otherwise positive figure for his people.
It’s always great to find new interesting things about the series you like, One of my personal favorites is “genetics is a curse” from HotBoy Spicy.
As someone who fought them all his life and had the most important people to him die at their hand you I can understand Tobirama. He did not hate the Uchiha he just know the power that they where capable of.
Wow, really excited for this video. Would be cool to see another on the 1st hokage and another comparing and contrasting Hurizen and Danzo
The philosophy of tobirama can be summed up in one sentence: Make Konaha Great Again
Your voice is truly one of a kind. Not many have the ability to observe , construct and deconstruct theories and philosophies hidden in movies and anime. The way you use your voice to present facts and opinions show that you have mastered the art of narrating.
imagine if only one group of people could have guns, but they also have a poor track record of peace. that's what the uchiha clan was with their sharingan.
Great dissection man 👌
Tobirama was the best Hokage in my opinion. Not only was he a powerful shinobi who created a lot of jutsus but he was also a skilled politician and diplomat, unlike later incompetent Hokages and probably all other kages as well.
He is a realist who puts ideals to work in the real world, not like Naruto's stupid talk no jutsu.
He took on the difficult task of turning a clan confederation into a true state with institutions and a representative system of government.
In short, he is one of the few realistic elements in this series.
It's a shame that Kishimoto fell in love with Sasuke and Naruto so much to the point he make everybody forgave the former for all the bad things he did to everyone because of the latter's whims.
Seriously, when did a series on the quest for peace become a fairy tale? Talk no jutsu, the villain defeated and everyone happy and content? This is not how peace is achieved, it is a much more arduous process, it requires negotiation and insight, not the whimpering of a teenager with emotional problems.
Just look at AoT, nothing there has a happy ending, there is suffering, collateral effects, there is still hatred and injustice and hardly anything good is achieved from so much sacrifice. And you know what? IT WORKS, because it makes the characters see as real people and not as idiots and the four protagonists will not finish the ENTIRE SCENARIO and make the world revolve around them ignoring everything else.
You can’t 100% blame Kishimoto for how Naruto turned out in the end. Anime/Manga studios do not give its writers a lot of creative freedom. He had a lot more planned for the series, but a lot of that was scrapped because his superiors wanted him to focus on Naruto and Sasuke.
Thankyou for making this video!
Tobirama senju reminds me of Stannis baratheon from game of thrones.
yeah he's got that stannis and Maekar vibe around him
Man..... your voice is iconic 😴😍😍
I love watching your vids
Tobirama was honestly one of the wisest and most dutiful hokage to ever live.
And I absolutely understand his animosity towards the Uchiha. Cause truth be told, it’s not the Uchiha entirely that he was weary of (he just referred to everyone as stupid adults). Tobiramas point of reference was the one and only Madara Uchiha. This man is the pinnacle of the power an Uchiha can possess. And what did this “Madara” do exactly? Threaten the entirety of not just the leaf village but the world!
The flowers in the concrete are people like Shishui and Itachi. These men fully understood the embodiment of the ideologies that the leaf village possessed, and were willing to die for it. Simple. That’s all Tobirama asked for. If there wasn’t such within you, the logical move would be to assess whether you would be a threat if you defected or not.
There is really no morality in the shinobi world, true. But one thing for sure, Tobirama definitely thought it through.
Every action he has ever taken has been for the greater good of the village. No one can question his actions. No one. He lived for his brothers dream, which was peace in the shinobi world.
We tend to forget that’s what the village embodied: peace.
He feels like modern overpolicing, he creates a selfe-fullfilling Prophecy.
A bunch of adult uchiha men killed his kid brother. Id hate them forever too.
16:05 I KNEW that was the hollow knight *pure knight* ost. Man that fight was so hard
Not sure why people are calling Tobirama a racist in the comments. Since when is a clan an entire race of people?
True. But I think you know what they are attempting to express. Bigot might be a better word.
It's because the term racism has been over-used in modern US society to the point of nearly it being meaningless.
To use an incredibly divisive example, it was repeatably said that Orange Man called racists in Charlottsville "fine people", when 15 seconds before that he clarified that the racists were horrible. And he was accused of never denouncing racists, despite the fact that there are 9 or so times he directly did. Trump never made me a Trump supporter; the easily disproven lies & bs accusations did. Or take Rittenhouse, that 'white supremacist' who took a rifle to a BLM (fiery but mostly peaceful) protest, gave first aid & water to the protesters, & shot (in self-defense) 3 white men. Pretty sure a white supremacist, that is a racist, would have taken the time to shoot some black people. Apparently Rittenhouse is one of the worst racists ever.
So the term is practically devoid of any meaning at this point, which sucks if you want to identify to marginalize actual racists.
@@markuhler2664 Depends on what the white people believe though. For the hard-core guys, being a 'liability' to your race is as bad as not being your race.
I love your video's so much
its always a joy getting new insight into chatacters
Tobirama is literally right about the Uchiha tho. That's not even up for debate.
Amazing analysis of an underrated character. Well done :)
alternative title: the hokage who was right about the uchiha
I think one of the reasons Tobirama was so wary of the uchiha clan was due to his sensory abilities. Remember when Karin sensed Sasuke's chakra from being nice to darker and cold? I think same is the case with Tobirama. He said this to Sasuke when he explained the progression of sharingan "there were many sensitive people among the uchihas and nearly all were possessed by darkness and felt evil". Whenever an uchiha awakens their sharingan, Tobirama could probably feel them falling more and more into darkness.
To me, Tobirama was a great Hokage. The problem was the predecessor and the successor. Hashirama gave away all the tailed beasts like an idiot except the 9 tailed. Meanwhile, Sarutobi was an ineffective ruler who let Danzo mess up the leaf so much. And don't give the bullshit of him leading through the wars. Konoha was already the most powerful when Sarutobi received the mantle. It had a great system and powerful ninjas but then eventually it weakened because of internal fighting. Konoha's weakness is his own ninjas with Danzo and Orochimaru and the Uchiha clan destruction. Tobirama did not hate the Uchiha, he was just careful of them and who can blame him since he had to deal with Madara who was the leader of the Uchiha clan. I blame Sarutobi for not making the relationship with Uchiha closer and making them a true part of Konoha.
Tobirama: We need democracy!
Also Tobirama: Hiruzen, I choose you!