Eh, there are worse design offenders in the current Audi lineup, the A2 looks decent in comparison. The new A3, Q2, Q3, Q5 and Q7 aren't exactly lookers.
If ugly means a charming design, then hell yes! Ford ka, renault twingo, vw lupo, all tiny cars from that era that simply catch your attention, no matter how small or bare bones they are, i love them and would prefer them to the endless models of crossovers
Is it just me or did the prius model kinda suck? It looked like there was less resolution or polygons or something. The cfd made it appear like there is a series of notches along the roof.
Appreciate your out-of-the-box thinking on how to reduce lift. But the whole point of this exercise defined at the beginning of the video was to "Improve cornering performance". Adding weight at the top of the vehicle is the last thing you want to do to improve cornering performance. Also, if you take a moment and pause at the Nurburgring times referenced, the Tesla is on par with a multi-million dollar Ferrari Enzo. Battery cooling, brake cooling, tires, and the nearly 5,000lb weight of the Tesla have much more to do with the time not being closer to 7:00 minutes, than aerodynamic lift over the roof.
these look like they could be 3d printed and easily mounted to roof racks, maybe you could consider the racks in the next design or maybe design some low drag ones for this purpose
Would placing vortex generators along the roof trip/energize the boundary layer so that the airflow stays attached? Thus, achieving a similar benefit without the need for a large appendage?
I have question. I dont know alot of aerodynamics and iam learning alot from your videos. If the low pressure between the flat sheet and the car top is pulling on the sheet and the car wont that forces cancel each other? Maybe you got good results because the sheet is not connected to the car.
The forces cancel out, yes. Simply adding a rod at each corner and connecting it to the car just attaches the plate to the car, but the forces still cancel out.
I noticed the wool tuffs is turbulence on the rear window of a fastback sedan, the flow is good from the front windshield and on the roof top as seen via the sunroof though, how to improve the rear window air flow?
Would you do an aero improvement for kei truck? Daihatsu Hijet? They're not great at high speed, would be great to see if any minimal change can be made for significant improvement in stability.
@@PremierAerodynamics how about a lightweight optimized car, so a more spherecial one, with wing kit to make up for the fact its not sitting low to ground for areo sorta like gma t50 . gma t50 areo is special with its turbine and wings (wings stick out when in use in non t50s variant). .... im asking about the lightweight car because only like sport luxury cars in theory, because why drive things when you can just simulate in imagination... food when hungry is better consumerism. makeing everyday commute less boring , stressful, etc driving funs is escaping perceived danger and driving style for lower emissions to whatever extent you wish emissions driving rules means: exponential accelerator pedal compression pace from around 5 miler per hour , optimal energy level , engine RPM . put down more power than that before uphills and on downhills brake and steer minimally and steadily. (tire wear and weight is bad in emissions too) bike better than car, safety is unlikely to be a issue especially if skilled and quick accelerating. uber eats container, rubber egg crates, silicone bag , etc (micro plastic carcinogenic xeno estrogen emission of plastic wearing off from friction, heat, moisture, , potential partially airborne like in tire wear dust, etc). weight increases road damage, crash damage to all involved, more tire wear. low weight means easily controllable traction loss, tires last longer with more grip . linear addition in weight is exponentially worse in many ways especially in addign battery weight per effiency of battery . if you can get the suspension to be softly sprung with lot of body roll proportionate with max potential Gforces from change in movement direction, itll feel more dramatic fun giving a more accurate idea of when car wil loose grip.also makes it less harsh rideing, not as much need for heavy expensive vibration engineering . gordon murray t50 uses turbine suppedly to do this across big range of gforces , being like a miata lotus elise in everyday speeds and simlar in supecar speeds. turning off power steering also makes it possible to read how close to grip limit car is at a even more precise level while improving battery longveity and efficiency by less high rate energy flow i guess the best way in normie tech is lightweight effceiny , probably small battery electric car with small combustion slow charger, optimized for saveing money long term . nobody will inconvenience theirself to trust "the science" probably largley paid off by money printing joeee biden joeish , also called "greedy captialist". real valued ideas are often business secrets ........... could also just argue to have driving fun with ligthweight combustion mid rear engine 2 liter inline 3 //hybrid rotary limited slip diffrential momentum preservation lotus elise CVT transmission sort of compact 4 that can lift to "suv" car height with forged recycled carbon fiberfor saftey X lightweight. small electric drive at front
cool idea and analysis, but id just like to point out that the change in downforce of a few kg is negligible compared to the weight of the cars, while the drag changes by up to 10% so in practice this would likely be a poor tradeoff. but good to know i can corner faster with a sheet of plywood on the roof 😊
I think a more practical approach than strapping drywall to your roof might be a funny car spoiler. If you can't eliminate the low pressure wake, have it pull down on a horizontal surface, and the air flowing down over the roof will now have a trunk space to raise pressure on top.
Hello Mr. Aerodynamics. Have you ever noticed how old cars (mainly from the 60s) had a front fascia that curved inwards at the bottom? Look at 60s Ferraris and Porsches for example. Modern cars don't seem to have this at all. Do you know why? I guess it might be because of lift, but I don't know.
Do you mean inwards from the tyres, so the tyres are more exposed? If so, then modern cars don't do that because exposing the tyres increases the drag a lot. So, covering them is better.
@@PremierAerodynamics I meant from front-to-back, as visible from the side view. The Porsche 904 shows what I mean. Most modern cars have a flat underside there, closer to the road, rather than a swooping sort of "chin". Thanks for responding though!
Interesting video! And I have followed some other videos explaining the challenges F1 aerodynamicists face! It is truly fascinating! However, on the open road, I do not imagine that a Tesla Model 3 driver is often facing a problem of lack of downforce in a corner at a speed significantly greater than 72 km/h. My feeling is that sacrificing some Cx coefficient for down-pressure is no favorable trade-off... except on a track. Adding aerodynamic pressure on a road car would, I can imagine, also increase the apparent weight of the car, and hence rolling resistance and tire wear.
Why can't just make the roof less curvy, so that flow will not accelerate that much, make the greenhouse like a semi rain drop shape rounded at front sharp angled at the trailing edge, problems: flow can separate from the transition between curved area to angled area but we can add vortex generators to force the flow to remain attached.
Elon visited Aptera factory about 4 years ago, offered to let them use his chargers (1st offer). He must have been impressed. So was I. I ordered 3. I "assumed" he would reduce the drag also.
Hmmmm. I got those "aero" roof bars on my kluger/highlander. I did imagine those would have a similar effect of straightining the airflow over the roof
Thanks interesting aa usual, I had an idea though, would be interesting to see if a typical car is as aerodynamic as a bri k, and then a brick with rounded corners, it might actually have a lower cd as it doesn't have to deal with wheels and associated drag
Are you claiming that the aerodynamics of Teslas hinder their cornering ability? You are grossly mistaken. It's all in chassis tuning and finesse, which Tesla isn't focusing on.
Finally a reason to have a roofrack and some plywood.
elon: yeah finally a reason to put a solar panel on tesla
Good idea!
@@PremierAerodynamics lightyear 0 , aptera motors,
@@ouch9326 Sales numbers?
Would be interesting to analyze the design of the so called “ugliest” Audi. I’m talking about the Audi A2.
Audi A2 is a fascinating car, especially the 3l version
it looks like the european aztec
@ but much more fuel efficient
Eh, there are worse design offenders in the current Audi lineup, the A2 looks decent in comparison. The new A3, Q2, Q3, Q5 and Q7 aren't exactly lookers.
If ugly means a charming design, then hell yes! Ford ka, renault twingo, vw lupo, all tiny cars from that era that simply catch your attention, no matter how small or bare bones they are, i love them and would prefer them to the endless models of crossovers
The Tesla aero lift isn't a problem because all vehicles travel a legal speed.
People dont buy cars for professional racing.
The weight and brakes limit it's 'Ring lap times.
Is it just me or did the prius model kinda suck? It looked like there was less resolution or polygons or something. The cfd made it appear like there is a series of notches along the roof.
@@onetonpun it's kinda difficult to find 3d models of the Prius in general let alone cfd compatible ones. For free or cheap so I'm not surprised.
Lower poly 3D model.
I think it's the first good looking Prius ever.
Cyber truck is even worse
@flysinsoup the cybertruck was designed on an etch-a-sketch. Should have no issue modelling perfectly straight lines.
You rock, thank for considering my last comment asking for this video
Thanks!
Model y has a performance model/spoiler on the rear. Wondering if you checked into that at all and any aero findings?
April Fools is not today
Appreciate your out-of-the-box thinking on how to reduce lift. But the whole point of this exercise defined at the beginning of the video was to "Improve cornering performance". Adding weight at the top of the vehicle is the last thing you want to do to improve cornering performance. Also, if you take a moment and pause at the Nurburgring times referenced, the Tesla is on par with a multi-million dollar Ferrari Enzo. Battery cooling, brake cooling, tires, and the nearly 5,000lb weight of the Tesla have much more to do with the time not being closer to 7:00 minutes, than aerodynamic lift over the roof.
Whats car has the best CX with doenforce/lift near 0?
Can you please do the aerodynamics of a Toyota Land cruiser 80 series? I would like to see how my brick reacts with air.
That's a good idea! Thanks!
@PremierAerodynamics Huge
these look like they could be 3d printed and easily mounted to roof racks, maybe you could consider the racks in the next design or maybe design some low drag ones for this purpose
Thanks for the idea!
i started watching you not long ago now about a month and now i PE class im thinking of anyway to made the ball have less drag XD
Dimples. This is why golf balls are shaped like that.
@@sharcc2511 yea thats one of many dumb ways i have thought of
Would placing vortex generators along the roof trip/energize the boundary layer so that the airflow stays attached? Thus, achieving a similar benefit without the need for a large appendage?
For cars where the flow separates down the rear window, then definitely. One example was the Mitsubishi Evo.
I have question.
I dont know alot of aerodynamics and iam learning alot from your videos.
If the low pressure between the flat sheet and the car top is pulling on the sheet and the car wont that forces cancel each other?
Maybe you got good results because the sheet is not connected to the car.
The forces cancel out, yes. Simply adding a rod at each corner and connecting it to the car just attaches the plate to the car, but the forces still cancel out.
That doesn’t work
What are the chances we will buy that aerodynamic can you designed?
IDK, the future is exciting!
can you analyse aptera ev and find a cd value at different speeds, a solar panel for the plate?
I noticed the wool tuffs is turbulence on the rear window of a fastback sedan, the flow is good from the front windshield and on the roof top as seen via the sunroof though, how to improve the rear window air flow?
Sorry, but we would need to do some thinking. if you need it, you can contact us about consulting for such a case. All the best.
How do you make these simulations? I'd like to see an aero analysis of my own car, the BMW E46 Sedan
We have our courses for CFD and OpenFOAM on our website. With them, you can do things like this and modifications, if you like.
putting an aeroplane wing on the top of the car, and it produce downforce. What kind of dark magic is that
So get the roof rack?
That will do a little.
@ oh cool
Why not to continue the roof longer, like the Bred Van made out of a ferrari 250 gto to improve performances on track?
It definitely helps reduce the lift, but it comes with a very large drag penalty.
Please do one about the Mclaren Elva!
Would you do an aero improvement for kei truck? Daihatsu Hijet? They're not great at high speed, would be great to see if any minimal change can be made for significant improvement in stability.
I'm not sure if we have it in our plans for the future. Maybe. if you really need, you can contact us to consult on this. All the best.
How about a small wing spoiler in the back?
Yep, a rear wing is fine, but inefficient.
@@PremierAerodynamics how about a lightweight optimized car, so a more spherecial one, with wing kit to make up for the fact its not sitting low to ground for areo sorta like gma t50 . gma t50 areo is special with its turbine and wings (wings stick out when in use in non t50s variant). .... im asking about the lightweight car because only like sport luxury cars in theory, because why drive things when you can just simulate in imagination... food when hungry is better consumerism. makeing everyday commute less boring , stressful, etc driving funs is escaping perceived danger and driving style for lower emissions to whatever extent you wish
emissions driving rules means: exponential accelerator pedal compression pace from around 5 miler per hour , optimal energy level , engine RPM . put down more power than that before uphills and on downhills brake and steer minimally and steadily. (tire wear and weight is bad in emissions too)
bike better than car, safety is unlikely to be a issue especially if skilled and quick accelerating. uber eats container, rubber egg crates, silicone bag , etc (micro plastic carcinogenic xeno estrogen emission of plastic wearing off from friction, heat, moisture, , potential partially airborne like in tire wear dust, etc).
weight increases road damage, crash damage to all involved, more tire wear. low weight means easily controllable traction loss, tires last longer with more grip . linear addition in weight is exponentially worse in many ways especially in addign battery weight per effiency of battery . if you can get the suspension to be softly sprung with lot of body roll proportionate with max potential Gforces from change in movement direction, itll feel more dramatic fun giving a more accurate idea of when car wil loose grip.also makes it less harsh rideing, not as much need for heavy expensive vibration engineering . gordon murray t50 uses turbine suppedly to do this across big range of gforces , being like a miata lotus elise in everyday speeds and simlar in supecar speeds. turning off power steering also makes it possible to read how close to grip limit car is at a even more precise level while improving battery longveity and efficiency by less high rate energy flow
i guess the best way in normie tech is lightweight effceiny , probably small battery electric car with small combustion slow charger, optimized for saveing money long term . nobody will inconvenience theirself to trust "the science" probably largley paid off by money printing joeee biden joeish , also called "greedy captialist". real valued ideas are often business secrets ........... could also just argue to have driving fun with ligthweight combustion mid rear engine 2 liter inline 3 //hybrid rotary limited slip diffrential momentum preservation lotus elise CVT transmission sort of compact 4 that can lift to "suv" car height with forged recycled carbon fiberfor saftey X lightweight. small electric drive at front
Why?
why isn’t more lift generated by adding the air foil?
It is upside down, so downforce is produced instead.
Please analyze MG5
cool idea and analysis, but id just like to point out that the change in downforce of a few kg is negligible compared to the weight of the cars, while the drag changes by up to 10% so in practice this would likely be a poor tradeoff. but good to know i can corner faster with a sheet of plywood on the roof 😊
For a typical drive, 100%. Builders definitely have it over other people.
I think a more practical approach than strapping drywall to your roof might be a funny car spoiler. If you can't eliminate the low pressure wake, have it pull down on a horizontal surface, and the air flowing down over the roof will now have a trunk space to raise pressure on top.
Rear wings are inefficient, and things are only funny because you're not used to them.
@PremierAerodynamics less of a wing, more like the protruding tail of the Mercedes IAA concept.
Hello Mr. Aerodynamics. Have you ever noticed how old cars (mainly from the 60s) had a front fascia that curved inwards at the bottom? Look at 60s Ferraris and Porsches for example. Modern cars don't seem to have this at all. Do you know why? I guess it might be because of lift, but I don't know.
Do you mean inwards from the tyres, so the tyres are more exposed? If so, then modern cars don't do that because exposing the tyres increases the drag a lot. So, covering them is better.
@@PremierAerodynamics I meant from front-to-back, as visible from the side view. The Porsche 904 shows what I mean. Most modern cars have a flat underside there, closer to the road, rather than a swooping sort of "chin". Thanks for responding though!
Interesting video!
And I have followed some other videos explaining the challenges F1 aerodynamicists face! It is truly fascinating!
However, on the open road, I do not imagine that a Tesla Model 3 driver is often facing a problem of lack of downforce in a corner at a speed significantly greater than 72 km/h. My feeling is that sacrificing some Cx coefficient for down-pressure is no favorable trade-off... except on a track. Adding aerodynamic pressure on a road car would, I can imagine, also increase the apparent weight of the car, and hence rolling resistance and tire wear.
At regular speeds, 100%. There will be a little more wear over time.
Why can't just make the roof less curvy, so that flow will not accelerate that much, make the greenhouse like a semi rain drop shape rounded at front sharp angled at the trailing edge, problems: flow can separate from the transition between curved area to angled area but we can add vortex generators to force the flow to remain attached.
That is all very possible too.
Elon visited Aptera factory about 4 years ago, offered to let them use his chargers (1st offer). He must have been impressed. So was I. I ordered 3. I "assumed" he would reduce the drag also.
Elon's a G.
Im new on ur channel im starting to learn cfd ang interested in cars as well😂
Welcome aboard sailor!
5kg downforce? That's going to be tough to show any difference in lap time.
5kg at 72 kph, for this configuration.
Hmmmm. I got those "aero" roof bars on my kluger/highlander. I did imagine those would have a similar effect of straightining the airflow over the roof
They definitely would do that at the very least.
Kia EV6 has a wing on top of the hatch and a spoiler on the entire trailing edge.
Thanks interesting aa usual, I had an idea though, would be interesting to see if a typical car is as aerodynamic as a bri k, and then a brick with rounded corners, it might actually have a lower cd as it doesn't have to deal with wheels and associated drag
That's a good idea! Thanks!
thanks this will help me when i swap the plad powertrain into my 2014 prius lol
Lol
Plaidswap!!
@@rkan2 the only thing holding me back is funds. I would have done it already.
I was serious.
@@sterlingarcher813 Start with a classic Tesla swap. If you add enough cooling you can run just as many amps through the motors. :P
No one talks about these things,
Soon: everyone drives around with a drywall on the Tesla roof rack
All the cool kids already do! Lol
Kinda like the wing on a cosworth escort rs
Yeah! It kinda is.
it would be great if all cars came with floating wings
Lol
solution a software developer could propose
wait so the tesla is basically an aerofoil??
Pretty much. That was the shape that the early pioneers found in the wind tunnel to be low drag and that has influenced cars ever since.
Are you claiming that the aerodynamics of Teslas hinder their cornering ability? You are grossly mistaken. It's all in chassis tuning and finesse, which Tesla isn't focusing on.
Are you claiming that aerodynamics makes no difference to lap times, because there are literally whole motorsports largely focused on that.
Yeah…. I’m not seeing a ‘solution’, to anything here, all designs are compromises.
This is all theory. As long as you dont have real world results. This is not much worth.
(me trying to understand this)
Lol
If you are so clever, why are you wasting time on UA-cam?
If you only ever do what others do, you will only ever get what they get. If you want something different, then you need to do something different.