I hope someone from BMC watches this.
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
- When we get problems, the first thing to do is ascertain what the problem is.
We show you how to use a reamer on a carbon frame and present reasons not to do so.
Tools used in this video:
Bore Micrometer
Internal Micrometer
Feeler Gages
40.95 go gage
Park tool 744 - 40.98 reamer
400 grit wet paper
Park tool BB Press
WERA X3 Torque Wrench with 1/2 drive head
Our own syringe grease applicator - in shop soon
This was a BMC Teammachine fitted with SRAM RED components, and a SRAM DUB BB.
For the amount manufacturers charge. They should be able to make a ROUND hole!
Indeed, you would think that its not rocket science to make a hole that is round!
Yep, I'd be sending that back every time - it's the only way manufacturers will take notice. It's good that Mapdec can resolve these issues but the end user should not be paying out to correct shite frames (which are not exactly cheap !)
BMC should reimburse customer for cost of this repair. Or should have warranted the frameset and costs involved with replacement.
@@andypendred8973 More people return their frames for poor quality, the better.
@Reanimator999 I did my 2016 cube attain gtc sl disc. After almost a Yr of repairs, new bearings, pads, and even a set of ultegra ice tech rotors. My lbs managed to get cube to take it back. Then, After nearly 3 months, Cube eventually gave me a full refund. As the whole frame was out of alignment.
Excellent not many bike shops can do this quality of work truly your a one off thank you for an informative video.
Thanks 👍
Local bike shops need to see this as well. A dedicated pro putting time and energy into a proper diagnosis and repair. Becoming as rare as a round hole.
How much does a fix like this run?
BMC should be ashamed of themselves.... Great job fixing their non-existent QC errors👍👍👍
Said it before, will say it again. Most of my LBS would not have anywhere near the depth of expertise to be able to do this type of diagnosis and solutioning.
This makes me sad.
The manufacturing is one thing, the other thing that should be mentioned is the use of BB86 for 29mm (DUB) or 30mm axles is frowned upon in tribology circles
What can you do?
@@Mapdec Run Shimano cranks with 24mm spindle and larger ball bearing size in a 42mm BB bore is the answer.
@lukewalker1051 ideally nobody would be using bb86 anymore🙃 That said, you can have longer BB life with Shimano cranks but what about having those cranks dissolve and fall apart on you?
@@veganpottertheveganbuy 105. They're one piece
@martinboson that's not true. They do have more material though which gives you more time before possible failure. But modern 105 is definitely Hollowtech II. Although they've also had more spindle failures too
The Q in BMC stands for quality.
😂
Ahhh, that was a nice one, DAD. 🤣
Weird, its about to stand for quit on my end.
For what people pay for these premier brands this frame should be absolutely spot on. Time the manufacturers upped their game and QC and, not increase the tolerances at the factory to fudge the issue.
Time, the manufacturer, actually upped their game 😂
@@oftankoftan We can only dream.
@@PaulTheCyclist.we can only d-REAM (badum tsss)
The tech people know this, but those companies are run by accountants and marketing people who only know how to make shareholders happy by selling as much as possible at the highest possible margin to rich fools, then quickly pocket the money and by the time shit hits the fan they have pocketed enough to retire happily or move on to another business.
@@oftankoftan I have just fitted a new Hambini bb to my brand spanking new Time ADH01 and it went in surprisingly easy. Didn't even need to use spanners to tighten the nuts on the thread bar, but could just use my fingers to do that. Not sure if that's how it is supposed to be. I hadn't measured the shell ID as it is a Time so expected it to be bang on within the standard. I suppose will see in a few days when the retaining compound has cured properly and we have done a couple hundred km which should be by the end of the weekend.
Always a very informative & professionally educational content 👍🏾
I appreciate that! Thank you
You've transferred all those imperfections from your bike onto your hands, if that's carbon on your hands, then you probably don't know that it's carcinogenic and if it's on your hands, then it's probably in your lungs. 😐
Less carcinogenic than breathing in the fumes from a truck engine. A lot less dust than cutting a steerer tube. Everything is wet and well ventilated. Thanks for your concern.
Mate, I'm an aircraft maintenance engineer with composite qualifications and also run my own bicycle mechanic workshop in Australia. Either it's carcinogenic or It's not. You should be wearing gloves and a respirator. Unqualified youtube mechanics are commenting on your high level of detail. Keep up the good work by including a high level of safety to yourself, others in your workshop, and most importantly, those unqualified youtubers that might try this at home.
Do people know what BMC stands for? What a joke 😂😂
Y dont u tell us?
The answer is always REAM, we need more Hambinis in this world full of paid advertising :D
Agreed but how much nicer is it to watch it in a professional way rather than swearing and using derogatory language.
Phillip Scofield would agree, probably.
@@knott4me561 I honestly enjoy both, here with Paul it's all informative and professional, with Hambini it's entertaining and it's a show, one is full of MSG, one full of spice, both are delicious :)
@@knott4me561you could ask Hambini’s reamer, Reg Scott
My bike shop can't even get the front wheel inline straight with the stem! Marvellous work.
Is your local shop an Evans Cycles? :)
Badly Made Carbon
Amazing that they charge somuch for these bikes but can‘t deliver to a basic level of quality. In any other industry this just would not be accepted
This is so far out of spec we would have to shut down the machine and rework the whole process that let to this mess.
The geometric tollerance for bearing holes should be IT7/2 or less. Most brands demand even smaller tolerances (IT5/2 or less).
IT7/2 for this hole would be 12,5µm (0,0125mm), the hole is off 0.08mm. Thats more than 6 times as much.
Whatever proces they use is utterly unfit.
These aren't "Aerospace tolerances"; tractors and mining equipment are produced to those standards where necessary.
Every shitty car you ever sat in has parts with way smaller tolerances.
I have a BMC as do loads of people around here (living in Switzerland). Never heard anyone with a single issue. So take this video with a pinch of salt
~£5k for this frameset 👌
It's sad. You spend sometimes more cash for a bike than car and you have to deal with shitty engineering. Ridiculous
Meanwhile, some people are roasting mid range carbon bike for having fiber glass. Almost all the top brands get away scott free for poor quality control
Oh the scandal
Your attention to detail is to be commended, top job. BMC hang your head in shame
And then you pay like 4k for those frames that have shit tech and shit manifacturing. I know these frames are coming from china and taiwan but BMC coming from switzerland you would expect higher quality when the swiss are known for precision.
I wish these frames could be warrantied. Manufacturers are putting their dealers in a bind. The frames are basically incomplete, the task you just performed should be part of the manufacturing process. Lets say you're a dealer and one of these comes in, now you have to fix it, and keep your mouth shut about it, because you're trying to sell these bikes too. It's so wrong!
This is not a recent phenomenon. Bike shops have been reaming new frames for decades. We largely only do it with high end framesets. But cheaper bikes don't get reamed unless a customer has problems. Hard to invest the time for a $350 bike. But it really is a long time issue and not a new problem at all. Same with derailleur hangers. They're often crooked out of the box.
If I were a dealer I would fix it before the customer saw it. Like we did in the red BMC vid
I'm so pleased you've been enlightened on perceived quality from Europe. I for one would question a couple of German or Bavarian car manufacturers who trade on a reputation of engineering excellence but are gifted free kudos from an inadequate or biased motoring press with the journalistic talent level of a schoolboy.
I love how Paul has educated people on reaming.
@andrewc948 yeah..like Canyon..they never crack or have issues, ever.
🙏
"Bicycle Made Crap" - Hambini
"Bike May Crack" - Also Hambini
@lemon6191 If it was a Canyon, it's more a quesiton of when will it crack.
I prefer a BSA-type BB shell over a press-fit BB shell. I notice many uneven surfaces at the BB shell of carbon frames. sometimes I used to sandpaper it to remove unevenness.
I have the same bike with Ultegra Di2 and installed a Kogel BB myself, it did seem like I needed to apply a good bit of force to press it in so now I'm wondering if I have the same issue. I haven't had any problems yet but if it fails prematurely I'll definitely have my bike shop take a look at the frame. Thank you for making this video, great work as usual.
I have the same exact bike as well. Have the original bearings still in. Fingers crossed
I think its those engineers and bean counters at BMC that need a reaming.
Ham🅱️ini would roast it
so if this was a frame sold by your shop would this be a chargable job?
No. It would have been put right before sale, as we did in the previous BMC vid.
BMC = badly made carbon
I know in manufacturing things get by QC BUT the amount bike manufacturers charge for these higher end bikes this is unacceptable.
The customer paid for two reamings. The first reaming was the purchase price. Would wager, though, that ovalization is a problem with many carbon frames having a press-fit setup. Bike makers are just cramming the bracket into a hole that offers enough tension to retain it, and then relying on the bb structure itself to keep things rotating sufficiently. Good observation of the uneven wear on the shaft.
Premium bike, premium manufacturing 👌🏾 well done BMC!
LOL
Carbon frames are trash
face it...bicycling engineering and manufacturing is a shitshow....you can no longer ride a high end bike without doing your own proper inspection. Sadly it is the cyclist and LBS at fault for allowing this by purchasing and lauding what is known dangerous.
Just for reference, how much is this job worth approximately?
This took about 90mins. So £80
@@Mapdecmy god you are so cheap. Over here in Switzerland I have to pay the best part of CHF200 (£180) per hour for labour. That’s why i try to do everything myself.
@@neilrobinson7965 Ich auch, als ex-Velomechaniker versuche ich ales selber zu machen (auch in der Schweiz).
I heard that Switzerland was expensive
@@Mapdec the cost of bikes and parts is more or less the same, but labour costs are astronomical. I think many Swiss people just buy a new bike when something needs repairing as the repair cost is often nearly as much as a new bike. A while ago, a colleage of mine needed a new chain, cassette and chainrings on his MTB as well as a general service and the bike shop persuaded him it would be better to buy a new bike which he duly did. Needless to say, I nver set foot in that shop.
I personally would never buy another bike with pressfit , threaded bsa only
DUB for BB86 frame is alreadya a big problem. Just no no.
It is pretty unbelievable for such a premium brand (must be very pricy and small qty in production) bike has a problem looking this serious. I would try hard to continue riding on it without a doubt of failure or blame myself of somehow braking it, if I was the user.
It’s usually blamed on SRAM and people get hood winked into buying more expensive BB
Who needs Hambini now you that brilliant tool.Great video.
Soap lowers the surface tension of water, so water can better get thorough the dust and catch it. It also enables water to actually cover the surface.
This looked like something that is included in setting up a new bike, not a big deal really. I have two team machines and they ride beautifully...frame quality is absolutely top notch.
Depends on your dealer sadly.
The ballache of having to do this on a £7k bike, makes you want to cry. It would be interesting to know if any of these companies would pay out for warranty on this work!
Yes. They would. But you would have to go back to the original retailer. If you bought online from a shop miles and miles away. That means packing and shipping and waiting.
@@Mapdecand also trusting that the retailer has someone competent to spot the problem.
Hambini has entered the chat. 😁
He’s in there somewhere
My bmc always had premature bearing wear. Installed a one piece bb and hasn’t been an issue.
Would the owner of this bike have any recourse if he went back to BMC and asked them to replace the frame? This looks like pretty shoddy QC and shouldn't have gotten out to a customer in the first place.
I doubt a frame replacement, but they should fix it if you could be bothered with the faff of sending it back.
Do you and Hambini both go to the same hair salon? 😂
I hope not
Excellent craftsmanship and bike mechanic skill ❤. This is the second video where I have seen you fix these 5500$ framesets from BMC, I will stay away from this brand. Side note - would this qualify as warranty frame replacement from BMC?
You're gonna find these problems with pretty much every brand. They do make many thousands of these bikes after all. Some will be out of tolerance. And no, you wouldn't get a frame replacement for this. When I worked for a BMC dealer, they'd give us a small rebate for labor so we wouldn't charge a customer if they were the original buyer.
It would likely get fixed at factory after a long period of sending it back via the original dealer and then to BMC etc. Summer would be over by the time it was fixed.
@@veganpotterthevegan Just because they make thousands of bikes doesn't mean any should be shipped with these kinds of problems. They should be detected during QC inspection.
Slightly concerning considering how similar that frame looks to the BMC Roadmachine five im trying to order. Ive already got the money out, but havent heard anything on the order after being told it might not be available until febuary. Tomorrow ill be checking in and might take my money over to specialized to get a Roubaix if I dont get good news. Both frames have similar geometry and can take a 40mm tire for a touch of light off road use/unmaintained path kind of deal. Some of my bike paths are covered in gravel from a lack of street sweeping because on major streets theres no one to ticket so its a drag on their revenue collection. Plus i have dreams of riding the boardwalk by the beach like i did as a child, which is a sandy nightmare for road bikes.
If you are in the UK, hold off, there is no UK distributor now and a nightmare to deal with.
I need to do this on my Merckx. The BB on it is really bad.
Swiss precision 👌
They can't even make chocolate these days, nevermind carbon bikes.
All made in Taiwan these days...
@@JulianKent Not Time and Look👌
Imagine BMC trying to make Rolex watch 😁
😂
11:33 you can upgrade it to Cane Creek Preloader/preload ring. Titanium bolt, and Alu collar, there are colour options too.
To ream or to roast - that is the quiestion
I was wondering why the owner never just had it replaced under warranty until I seen on there website that’s it just three years.
Because it’s a ball ache. Bought online from a shop miles away. Box it off, wait and wait and wait. Then summer is over
I've tried to get my BMC swapped under warranty for the same issue, their response "anything below 40.90mm is a better fit and the cup should go in with more pressure".
This video was oddly satisfying yet scary
Nice job fixing another rubbish BMC 👍
Thanks 👍
Wow! When ppl buy a frame they should send it to you too install a bb first. ;)
This happens a lot. We do the frame prep for riders to then do a home build. Facing brake mounts, installing BB etc.
Why is this not a warranty claim, bought used? And is doing this work breaking the warranty terms?
it is totally a warranty claim, however... that means boxing it up, sending it to the original retailer, if they cant fix, they send it to BMC... etc etc etc.. the summer will be over by the time that happens. We haven't tested a void warranty claim, they would have a hard job denying it. we use the same techniques they use in the factory. Also, bike shops have been doing this work on metal frames for decades. It is standard work, it's just that many shops dont know how to do this.
Hambini exposes all these modern crap frames and gimmick bb's
Welcome to the channel
While the need for reaming is obvious (and wouldn’t be a big deal with a metal frame of any type) the idea of scraping away any material on a carbon frame makes me cringe!
It’s only a problem if you see voids.
I enjoyed watching that way to much. Always enjoy a good reaming.
Glad you enjoyed it.
I am constantly in awe of what you do (nice to have the proper tools, love the Head Tube Reaming and Facing Set, had never seen one before, ignorance is bliss)
all the best to your shop and you and yours
Thank you very much!
I am really interested in your syringe grease applicator, please let me know when its available. Question about storing between uses - does it have some sort of cover for that brush? Thanks for another great, informative video!
We either clip to the wall or leave in the bench. There is a cap to stop grease flowing if you travel.
@@Mapdec OK cool keen to pick one up when they are available!
Paul or anybody, any feedback on VAR tools, only need for assembly of personal bike(s)? Thanks heaps y'all
...assembly and maintenance of personal...
Depends what tool. I’d never go mono brand for your tool kit. Var make some nice but very expensive facing tools. For assembly work get Wera tools. The best Allen and Torx wrenches you can buy. There is a vid about it somewhere. Unior make some excellent specialist wrenches like cassette, pedal and cones
There should be a metal sleeve pressed and bonded in place in that bored hole. After watching this I’m staying clear of any bike without a proper bottom bracket that isn’t lined with a metal sleeve.
He's not reaming it beyond 41 mm, just 40.98 mm.
Did you see the Giant Holes vid? That might change your mind. A metal sleeve is just going to corrode. If you mean a threaded insert for BSA or T47. Maybe. Their are pros and cons
the bike looks pretty new, i take it it was out of warranty? was there any point in contacting BMC before you fixed it?
as someone has already said, for the amount you pay for bikes, things like that should be almost perfect!
It would need to go back to random internet dealer, then back to BMC etc etc. Summer would be over before it go fixed
@@Mapdec ahhh, i see. nothing worse than being without your bike. great job on the fixing. i'm glad your cameraman asked why you weren't reaming the drive side, i wondered that too, but it makes sense!
So... Keeping the toxic carbon dust down was important while using the reamer, but not while sanding the opposite side?...
BMC says thank you 😀👍
Looking on the brightside... Easier to fix a PF BB here rather than a threaded. If that was an ovalised threaded BB, that would be a complete nightmare.
But yeah, $12 something thousand AUD bike, FFS
Can you please drop links to the tools you've used in this video?
I think many were engineering tools from 2nd hand
Insane that a frameset sold at that price was that poorly fabricated and apparently their quality control does not exist. I'd never buy a BMC after watching this.
My LBS couldn't do this type of work. They sold off their BSA bb facing tool and likely don't have the tools to fix TREK bbs. And remember "TREK bicycles don't have these problems. They're high quality " The proprietor cracked the shell on his Cannondale bb30 because no doubt it had that problem. Also he rides a 55×13 gear and never shifts! I'm not making this up.
Disappointing from BMC, to be that close and not correct it before it leaves the factory does tell a story about how brands see QC.
Imagine a brand that took the time to have this checked and corrected, it would mean great longevity for the customer, no extra trips to bike shops, no disheartenment in your purchase and no wasted time.
I mean its not such a huge effort to prepare a frame properly for the cranks. So please someone explain to me: Why is that such a usual problem and the manufacturer do not seem to care about it?
Because no one checks.
Thanks for the answer and for your great video!
How many miles did the original BB last? I have the same exact bike I bought used last year. Orig owner pit a few thousand miles on it and ive put a few thousand thousand on now. I believe its still the original BB
This was virtualy new. Just a few rides.
@@Mapdec thanks! Sounds like I should be good then
Great video. Crap engineering, over-design on modern bicycles.
Looks to be the same problem I have with my BMC URS. Response from BMC is that a shell diameter below 40.9mm means a better fit, just requiring more pressure.
BS 🤬🤬🤬🤬 send them the SRAM, Shimano and Campagnolo frame fit specifications. Tell them to read the standards.
@@Mapdec yeah clearly complete BS. Has completely destroyed my faith in BMC as a brand. ZyroFisher were no better when learning of a 40.6mm shell diameter "I can't see how one point being 0.4mm smaller will cause a bearing to fail". The cycle industry needs much higher standards!
@@Mapdec I could find SRAM and Campagnolo very easily but Shimano is eluding me. Do you have a link?
I'm sending you my BMC
Ok. Cool.
Hope you don’t mind, I’ve used some of this video as B-Role in my latest vid. Have put link to full video in description and gave a shout out. Let me know if not happy cheers😊👍
Go for it. Just credit me n description and @ tag on the footage please.
Mapdec and Hambini are always on point on what’s bike are good and bad
Such a pity that the manufacturers have taken their finger off the pulse for the money you pay regless of price it should be right great video
Ug... given how expensive BMC bikes are, I'm enraged. I hope they paid for this repair. And honestly, that particular exercise should be done vertically (with the frame on its side) to avoid tool weight influence.
We have never heard back from BMC about either of the 2 bikes we had to correct.
Amazing!! Do you know if this is happening in all BMC frames? Because I just bought a BMC URS 2022 and I'm kinda scared. Thanks!
It's an issue with mine - worth getting it checked but based on my experience you won't get far with BMC.
ill never find a bike shop in Paris doing that :(
I bet you can. Just won’t be in a high street store.
@@Mapdec beleive me half time they don't have the needed tool, and asking them to order a spoke or a bearing is impossible, in big city like Paris they don't focus repair bu focus selling bikes, easy maintenance for commuter bike (like flats and brake pads) :( .
It's all too hard if you ask me. Metal is best.
I agree with Luescher Teknik that threading a bearing into something is absolutely bonkers and just a hangover from adjustable cup and cone bottom brackets of yesteryear, but I also have absolutely no envy of anyone who rides one of these modern bikes with a pressfit bottom bracket.
Square tapered cartridge bottom brackets are still superior. They're incredibly long lasting, incredibly cheap to replace, allow for adjustments to your chainline allowing for a greater choice of cranks, chainrings, gearing etc. The cranks themselves require less material (due to the smaller axles to fit around), which can actually save weight. As for stiffness? If it were something that actually mattered, you'd still be no better off with a modern bottom bracket. Frank Berto ran some tests some years back and said when he measured the square taper he didn't even bother to record anything, there was no measureable difference in stiffness.
Maybe, but that’s never going to happen.
Good job - like to see you using a mircometer or two to be exact 👍
This is why I respect brands like Pinarello. They made a conscious decision to acknowledge that they can’t yet reliably produce a consistently round BB opening in pressfit format and continue to use external cups in their latest and greatest frames. That’s much more honorable than creating something that looks the part, but in reality actually sucks and will give customers big problems.
Oh you’re going to love our YT vids and shorts about Pinarello brake mounts.
Focus please
Mechanics first. Cameraman 2nd. Your tolerance is appreciated 👍
What type of grease is best for a bikes bottom bracket like this?
This is Alu against Carbon, so an inert grease to prevent corrosion. Most synthetic bearing greases will be good.
Cool thanks for the reply :) Any difference of grease if using an aluminum frame? Sorry if n00b questions, trying to learn more and up my bike maintenance game. Thanks again
I hope that BMC pays for your overpriced tooling... not the customer !
That’s for the rider to take up with the original retailer.
Such a shame you're the other end of the UK from me. Could really use your help right now!
We have pleanty of customers from Somerset, Cornwall, Vietnam, Colorado, …
Out of interest how much do you charge for this type of remedial work?
Just our hourly rate. This was about 90mins work to analyse, plan and do.
Must be one of the best around . Wish i had good bike place near by. Great vids
Thank you
I am so happy with this video. Thanks Paul for sharing! And wear a mask next time you're sanding carbon 😢😢
Thanks for the tip! Everything was very wet.
Would it not make sense to take down the lowspots by hand and then use the reamer, (ending up with a rounder hole)?
If the reamer was a bit smaller I might have been more confident to do that, but at 40.98 and 2 misaligned holes I was concerned about one side becoming oversized.
The reamer might be worth more than the frame. Would love to have these tools
Not quite
Another argument for the square taper. 😮
i wouldn't go that far
Just wondering if you or the owbwr contact BMC for a warranty replacement and if so whatbwas their response. Its shicking that this has left the factory like that especially the cost of it. Another great video really enjoy the content.
Owner not owbwr 🙄
Not that I know of. But it would be a pain. Would need to be sent back to retailer, then to BMC and before you know it the summer has gone.
Do I have to assume that all frames of this model/line of the BMC SLR01 have this problem. I am asking because I considered to buy one.
Did you see the other BMC vid? We are yet to get a response
@@Mapdec yes, the review overall was fairly good, wasn't it?
Yes. Great bike. Just shoddy finishing. Something good bike shops can sort.
Awesome stuff ❤
What will prevent the non-drive side opening from going out of round again? How much riding did it take to cause the problem? I guess it is the non drive side that generates more of those non-axial loads on the frame bb opening since the chain is on the other side.
Bike was virtually new. It was out of true from factory. We made it true and now bearings are able to spin freely on their correct axis.
@@Mapdec I would inspect them out of the box to see if that's true. If BMC is machining out of round holes, then there must not be enough material there to hold the BB. Or is this a case of the epoxy shrinking? Odd how those CF frames can go from being the cat's meow to scrap so darn easily.