A tribute to the best bike tech of the rim brake era.
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- Опубліковано 26 лип 2024
- Will this be the last rim brake bike I build? The last ever Time Scylon rim brake frame. A fitting tribute to the rim brake era with an exceptional quality crafted build using the amazing Campagnolo Super Record EPS. A truly exceptional groupset built without compromise using the very best materials possible. This Time Scylon rim brake frame is the very last to leave the Slovakian warehouse. There will be no more.
In this video we take a deep dive into the finer details of EPS and how we build a bike to be as perfect as possible. We look at the Time Quickset headset and how we consider cable routing to look and perform as good as possible.
The full build:
@CampagnoloSrl Super Record EPS Rim Brake Groupset
Campagnolo Bora WTO 60mm RIm Brake Wheels
Vittoria Corsa Pro 25mm Tan Wall
@TheTimeSport Scylon Rim Brake XS, Gloss Carbon
Deda Zero 100 Handlebars
Deda Superleggra RS Stem
@BBInfinite BB386evo to Campagnolo BB
Tools
@WeraToolRebels Safety Torque Wrench, Hex Keys
@parktool Internal Routing Kit - Спорт
Scylon owner here. I'm probably one of the few on the planet that has two.
but 1 is partially Your Hairdresser's....
I think you will have a 3rd soon.
@@Mapdecswapping groups to 12 speed ultegra this year on mine just to keep riding the beautiful rim brake.
Why do you have two?
You'd be surprised how many frames former time engineers can stack in their garage
I'm probably one of the last people lamenting the death of the rim brake and mechanical shifting. I know the limitations, but the advantages are non-trivial for a lot of average riders.
Agreed, keep it simple.
When I loaned a bike with Ultegra Di2 R8070 to ride a few times (mine was in full service phase at that time), I came to realise I can actually live without electronic groupsets, especially when my hands and fingers are still doing just fine. Sticking with mechanical also keeps my running costs lower and because I already know how to work on them, why make the switch for my bike?
One more advantage I can think of for mechanical groupsets, is that if I put it on a bike like a Specialized Tarmac SL7, it will be a highly uncommon spec since almost all Tarmac SL7s I've seen use electronic groupsets, to the point it's boringly oversaturated. A Tarmac SL7 won't make my head turn almost all the time except if it uses a mechanical groupset.
not only for average riders, for good ,excellent etc riders as well
As a bike nerd, I love the details on the Campagnolo groupset. You're right, we don't see those featured on UA-cam videos very often. Assembling that group is just so specific and fiddly in a way that tickles my brain.
But as a cyclist, I want precisely none of that frustration in my life!
Just built myself a bike up with rimbrakes sram red groupset and other great items, 6kg all up, my 2023 trek domane weighed 9.7kg , massive difference. Plus I saved a fortune building the bike myself.
what a savage weight difference, and some people still claim that disc brake bikes aren't "that much heavier" than rim brake ones
@@11robotics boat anchor .
Interesting. My experience of building my own bike is that its the most expensive way possible to get a bike. Sometimes shops clear bikes less than the cost of a groupset, and second hand bikes can be bargins.
When I first started watching the channel my man looked like he lived in a pub and now he looks like he lives on a bike. What a transformation!
It’s mad if you go back a bit further and see the really early vids.
Last autumn I built my rim brake dream bike, Time VXS Translink, with a mix of Campagnolo 11 speed components. It's a beautiful, super comfortable and very lightweight bike at a bargain. Love it.
That wiring looks like a nightmare to fit. I love Super Record 12 but the mechanical version is a joy and without the headache. I love your attention to detail
Pro tip of the day: use heat shrink tube on the shaft of the Allen keys to minimize the risk of scratching the carbon tubes!! Nice!
brake cables ends
The Good News is, rim brakes isn't going anywhere.
The Bad News is, it's just going to be even pricier than ever.
you can get rim brake frames from legit OEM chinese manufacturers. They re able to be profitable with much fewer runs, in fact they routinely make frames on demand.
15:45 It's called a Hirth tooth joint for those who are interested
God I love campagnolo ❤… it’s just better in every way …. Rim brake for winners, and that time is lovely… great vid
Rim brakes for the win ♥
...or the crash
@@matthewlewis2072 The win I sayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy ❤
@@matthewlewis2072 All involved in the Itzulia Basque Country crash were on disc bakes...
Inferior old-fashioned tech. I live in the Alps and will never go back to rim brakes.
@@user-d32658 Good for you! But I don't live in the Alps, 'inferior' old-fashioned tech is enough for me. Not so long ago rim brakes won all major races and I would say that even with disc brakes you would n o t win one of them...
Whenever g in campagnolo is pronounced as in "magnetism", someone in Italy commits a gelato
Campanyolo
I'm going to start pronouncing the g in Campagnolo just like the g in gelato
@@andrew_yeah DON'T YOU DARE
This video may as well be renamed the gelato genocide 😂
lol
The process is more a work of art then basic install of drivetrain.
Yeah, its alright... but peak rim brake era would have cables not wires for that simple analogue purity. The lengthy work-arounds and band-aid solutions for the BB junction are yet another reminder, no matter how well these interfaces are engineered, that earlier threaded designs were just a better solution. A well executed BSA with a Shimano crank of the non-exploding kind is workshop nirvana compared to this sort of thing, 10 mins to swap bearing cups out without fuss... no need for elaborate pullers/ fancy pastes/ immaculate prep performed on a waning moon followed by enforced 3 hour meditation on whether the creak monsters are fully expunged. The best bike tech of the rim brake era had much of this stuff nailed decades ago.
After all these decades i have just discovered the joys of compressionless brake outers !! Cheers for the great vid and brake like the wind !
what difference do they make?
I'm thinking of running a set when I rebuild my current bike for its performance spec.
@@yonglingng5640 enjoy the satisfying crispyness !! That goes for rim, v brakes and cable disc calipers.
@@matanhale really crisp feeling at the brake lever, brakes themselves less spongy, that goes for rim, v and cable disc brakes, did 3 bikes for 10 quid, easily the biggest improvement for the cost. It might be in the mind but the confidence given, feels faster, braking later and feeling more certain going into corners
Watched this while having my lunch, great content, find your bike builds very therapeutic, melodic commentary with bike content equals bliss 🥰.
Wow.. that Campagnolo eps groupset is very... Italian. Reminds me of my old Alfa Romeo, that also had quite different and weird approaches compared to my very old mitsubishi, where every little screw in itself is an engineering masterpiece, but at the same time very simple.
I loved every minute of this video. Great attention to detail, especially around the EPS system.
I'm a proud owner of a Time Alpe d'Huez 01 rim brake - chose Bora WTO 45s and Ultegra Di2 instead of full-on Campy as was done here. The bike is perfect, long live rim brakes!
In next week's show, Paul builds a Colnago with down tube shifters, steel rims and cottered cranks.
The bike was built with care and precision. Awesome bike + skilled mechanic = another quality video.
FINALLY 1440P! great job guys!
Exactly. Simplicity is key and what makes a bike. At least when I grew up. None of this sophisticated unself serviceable rubbish we have being thrown in our faces by current marketing and fund managers.
The fact that *you* can’t service disc brakes doesn’t mean they are “unself serviceable”, it just means that you shouldn’t work on bikes.
Wonderful bike, built with impressing mastery and competence. And I congratule the lucky owner to his decision in frame and groupset.
It is clearly going to Hambini , see comment above !!!
@@aljaliah6868 I doubt he'd be having a BB Infinite installed.
@@redkeyspoke Hahahahaaaa that is why he is not revealing who the owner is , it IS a better bracket clearly !
Amazing bike and a very lucky owner. Think I would have used SRAM AXS Etap so less cables and Hed RC Black wheels.
19:39 thank you so much for this info, such valuable nuggets of easily forgettable, rarely needed yet crucial info - I write it down into a notepad, and re-read once in a while to keep it fresh in my mind.
A beautiful build Paul ❤🚴♂️✅
I own the disc version of that groupset and the On/Off switch is misrepresented in this video. All that magnet does is let you put the groupset to sleep. If you would have just removed the magnet from the battery instead of sliding it up and down, it would have woke the group up. I agree that the Campagnolo wiring is fiddly, but sadly, Campagnolo ran into Patent issues and couldn't do the wiring like the Shimano E-tube DI2.
Bless. I love Italian competition engineering, be it pedal bikes, motorbikes or cars. But one weakness that everyone will tell you never touch anything Italian that is electric. It will wreck your life.
The crank axle conneting mechanism is called "Hirth-coupling". Love this built! If I didn't have my beloved Time Alpe d'Huez with mechanic/rim brake Record and Bora... I'd be overly envious!
Magnificent video. Thankful for mapdec
Glad you enjoyed it.
23:07 - that sigh of relief - the best feeling ever
Damn I love the build
I love Campy but what a mess of wires…gross. Sweet frame! Campy rim brakes have tons of power and modulation.
I don't like the fact that their wired EPS components already have wires permanently attached to them, I prefer detachable wires from the entire component itself, like Shimano Di2.
Best video for years, more like this please.
Years 😮
😂
Top Job 🔊🔊🕴
Like your short Switches to the Tools
That really is beautiful
What a beautiful bike…..I have a Bianchi xr2 in black with chorus and campagnolo bora 35mm wheels…mechanical….2016….still luv it..👌👍
The first build is the worst! But this will be an owners pride indeed!! A piece of pure beauty!! Great build, Paul.... Rgr
Time frame with direct mount calipers, would be the absolute perfection!
Are you high? Please see my post above. Direct mount is a crime. (It's a "u-brake" and the industry HATED these things, which they abandoned in short order by about 1987. Good riddance.)
@@dudeonbike800 Maybe the problem was to buy a frame with that type of rear brake.
You don't have to be very smart to realize that a brake caliper in that location is going to generate 1000 problems. I've seen Trek, Felt and BH models, and it's a shame to build a frame with a brake down there.
This is not my case. I've tried Brontager and Canecreek calipers and they work great for me. I use these because they work great for wide rims.
I'm hoping to buy another frame for direct-mount brakes, but not with the rear brake on the chain stays.
... and I have nothing against "regular" brakes.
@@pablofcasal5416 Agree. Client's bike. No going back at this point.
Again, I keenly observed the rise and fall of the u-brake, so there's not a chance in hell I'd have welcomed this thing into my collection.
Amazing bike, great video. I've had that 'problem' with euro routed cables so many times I've taken to just setting my bikes up Euro style now. Makes it easier hiring bikes on the continent too
Love rim brakes and Campy ❤
That tiny moment of panic when the front derailleur didn't move 😉
I’m actually less inclined to buy a new carbon road bike now that they no longer have rim brakes. I’m now more interested in Ti and steel.
Campagnolo, Beautiful.
Lovely machine
TIME Machine
My current road bike ride is rim brakes, mechanical shifting. When I eventually buy new bike, will be rim brakes, mechanical shifting, bike.
Lovely build.
My god campy is unnecessarily convoluted, it’s a good thing it’s utterly beautiful.
a real high performance race bike ;-)
For me, the best rim brake tech would also include mechanical shifting. Shimano DA 7800 was the last group that had a jewel-like polished finish. Sure, the gear cable coming out of the shifters looked less elegant, but each component worked smooth as butter and was dead simple to service. Everything since has been a technical marvel, but everything is also more complicated and ugly.
Maybe I am just disappointed that Shimano did not create a 50th anniversary Dura Ace group. Bring back polished metals. Black is overdone.
Still running my c50 with 7800. Mint
Any idea how many miles on your C50? @@dickieblench5001
i hav a mini Job in a bike shop. My Boss stoped selling Campa.... now i know why ^^ this is much to complicated. though cool....
What a kick in the spuds for Campagnolo. Not only are they no longer represented in the world tour, their top end shifters are referred to as STI. Poor fuckers.
This is an art project
I have a ADH rim brake on pre-order but it's destined for a Campagnolo 12sp mechanical build. Prefer my gears work due to the quality of the engineering rather than the programming - like a mechanical watch versus a quartz. Gorgeous build but reckon you should have gone mechanical.
Fantastic video. Was glad to hear you explain the cracking sound when installing the bottom bracket. I have installed a couple using locktite and it freaked me out when I first heard the noise. Other videos either used grease or must have just suppressed that noise. Well done!
Oh - and finally - having the brakes with right operating front (we have same in Australia) works well when you also ride a motorcycle... motorcycles always have front brake on right so you instinctively use right hand for front brake no matter what you are riding
If you have measured everything there will be nothing to fear.
@@Mapdec I certainly checked everything was square - repeatedly! :-)
Definitely a "Win" for the owner!
That bike with SR mechanical would be perfect.
Espectacular!!
Ďakujeme.
thanks i have a pink c60 rim brake waiting to get campagnolo sr eps to get installed. hopefully before the giro
beautiful
campy substantart 6061 aluminium , carbon steel bolts non stantart pitch , super record
Beautiful build dude wow.. 😊 ❤ would love to be able to afford this build amazing.. love Campagnolo ❤ Pete 🚴🏻👍
Glad you like it!
I have that exact bearing press kit. Ebay ftw!
Cool vid ❤
Thanks, so glad you enjoyed it.
Thank you for doing this video. I’d be really interested to see a deep dive on Campagnolo mechanical as well. I have a Colnago C60 (rim) with Dura-Ace Di2 and Enve/Chris King wheels. My brake tracks are starting to go so I picked up a set of Bora WTO 45s. I’m thinking of getting a matching mechanical Super Record group set. Really would love to hear about the “weird” stuff with these group sets. You are right that nobody else does videos on those aspects of Campy ownership.
Th wto wheels are superb
The wheels are superb. Campy mechanical has no major quirks other than the diameter of the actual cable.
@Mapdec thank you
More build videos please 🙏
Lovely machine ❤ Very simplistic compared to new bike tech. That Campi groupset is just madness 😂
It really is!
Hi Paul, re conti brake cable routing. I have a Look 595 which is the same. So I just set up the bike with rear brake on right and front on left. It took me no time to get use to using. I changed all by bikes other to conti brake set up, including my mountain bikes. So much neater on road bikes with external rim brakes. Especially on the front brake which is designed to suit the conti style breaking,
Good call Dean - I'd have gone for that option too I think. Everyone doing their April Ballearics week on hired bikes must have to do this anyway.
The rim brake era hasn't ended! Some still use Mafac centre pull! (But we're going so slowly that brakes are hardly necessary anymore ; )
Amazing looking bike, but holy moly that EPS what a bad design with those permanently attached cables to battery.
I would have set the brake cables the continental way. I'm French, and for the same kind or reasons my daily has a British lay-out (front on the right hand, back on the left), and it poses no problem at all. I'll switch bikes and use my hands differently, and that's it.
While I was glad to be on disk brakes during an rainy 15km descent yesterday, for most days I’d still prefer a rim brake bike that is easier to live with.
TIME made real top quality bikes.
Strangely my rear meg hanger did not bend, but Shimano hanger did. It costed 10 Sterlings. Also, after my fall Shimano gears worked perfectly fine : ) I noticed - 2mm bend during cleaning the bike.
Last Scylon? Damn I guess they are really moving on. Excited to see if they replace it.
Last Scylon Rim Brake
I’ve got a 2019 Scylon with Chorus 12 mechanical and rim brakes. Bora One 35 or Shamal tubeless. That headset is magnificent. One comment, please get a SILCA Hirobel to avoid clamping on the translink.
Those Hirobel are awful. They just damage paintwork. Ours went in the bin.
As a DIY bike owner, Seeing you, an established mechanic having difficulties installing that groupset really confirms i’ve made the right choice not buying Campy
Axs for more tidy-up
Beautiful bike indeed! It's hard to imagine intentionally riding that bike in the rain, so there is definitely no argument for fitting disc brakes. If you want to ride in the rain, ride your gravel bike, right! I will admit to being deeply disappointed by the choice of clincher wheels. That bike deserves some handmade silk 1000 TPI tubs.
Am I in a mad world? £450 for a battery and charger cable which looks fiddly/ready to break.Proprietary bearings? Lovely bike tho. Needs a sympathetic builder that takes care just as we see here
The charger connector because I think it’s the industrial standard M8 connector, they’re fairly durable if not abused.
@27:00 I heard about something called the "hammer effect" which suggests you can actually overtighten bolts with such a mechanism. Unsure if its valid or not though. Great video showcasing some awesome parts!
Depends on the slipping mechanism. (Stahlwille’s is superior imho.) Mechanical precession counteracts. Though I’m surprised he’s using a torque wrench with lever action here - which has a relatively high grip-dependent tolerance -, rather than going for a screwdriver-style once, that is more appropriate for small torque (
I think if you do it in rapid succession, it might. I'm not a fan of cam-over torque tool mechanisms. I've used a few cam-over torque tools before (but none in the form of a wrench) and the sensation of slipping with the sound of the snap feels and sounds like I dislocated my wrist torsionally. Something that works halfway to this is Prestacycle's TorqKey. Once you've torqued to spec, the tool doesn't give way as much as the average cam-over torque tool and springs back once you let it go. It's also the only torque tool that can handle fastener loosening (not for stubborn fasteners).
One neat piece of trivia about the Scylon.
It was originally supposed to be named S__K__ylon, but team sky threatened to sue, Time folded and renamed it to scylon.
However, at this point a certain amount of frames stamped skylon had already been produced. Most of them were internally sold.
Mechanical and disc brakes for me. Rim brakes are easy to live with but involving the surface of expensive wheels for braking is less than ideal for me. Discs are now very reliable and easy to maintain and much more effective on hilly terrain.
I love how meticulous you are in the build. The attention to detail is a work of art! Curious though, do you ever bother to balance wheels/tires?
No. I played with this a few times over the years. Waste of time.
@@Mapdec Good to know, thanks!
Sadly finding myself in the situation of trying to find "vintage" 2007 Chorus parts for a restoration of my 07 Campy gruppo that I have on an '07 Torelli Express with rim brakes. I don't know why but I love the look and brake feel of rim brakes. Whilst my gravel and mtb have disc brakes (hydro and mech'l respectively), there's still something classic about a 10 spd mechanical Campy groupset with caliper rim brakes. It's getting harder to find brake pads these days. So anyone building something like this, buy a few sets of the replacment parts for future proofing. Brake pads, chains, bearings.
Interesting comments about IPA. I have found it's not quite pure enough to effect the absolutely essential cleaning of a tpu tube b4 patching. Polishing with kitchen roll AFTER cleaning with IPA fixes it....
Most costly day at the shop was when I accidently snagged one of the battery cables on the seatpost when I was inserting it into the frame....not a good day. Luckily we were able to solder it back together and get it as good as new again. Bloody campag....
Ouch
That kind of risk is why I don't like wired Campagnolo EPS.
Great vid Paul ……real world………very fair . EPS context worth a bit of expansion here. Imagine sitting around the table at Campagnolo, your starship electronic gp set is 10 years in R&D and late , Shimano already have Di2 out there. Pressure to not FKIU is considerable. So you focus on bringing customers along to new while re-assuring with the familiar. So EPS ‘buzz’ then ‘clunk’, new combined with the positive familiar clunk to replicate mechanical positive gear engagement . Ergo Shifters always ahead of the competition but EPS it’s all personal choice it’s …….the ‘bee hit by a hammer ‘ or ‘others ZZ ZZ ‘, each to their own. Just be glad it wasn’t V1 or V2 🤣. Beautiful quirky oddity of its time. For me bettered by mechanical ( having used both extensively). Nice to see it on a stallion.
Nice analysis Kevin.
Hirth joint 👍
Knowledge 🙏
Have a BBInfinite coated Ceramitech in my Alpe D’Huez, I’m a fan of overkill 😂
I think this video is a good advert against campagnolo. 😅
Pride of place above the fireplace never to see the road if I had that ❤❤
Wow! What in incredible yet complicated build. Kudos! Question: Is it because of Campagnolo's groupset complications that they've been abandoned by pro teams?
It’s a suspicion for sure.
I hate to be blunt but bicycles should not need to have a BOOK to tell a mechanic how to wire it.
It should never be that confusing.
Actually, after some thought, the Campagnolo set is exactly what I would get if I could afford to pay and trust someone else to fix my bike 100% of the time, it's gorgeous, but I like to be able to handle most mechanical jobs myself and this just looks like too much, especially the weird crankset install. Does it not just have a bolt to tighten?
It certainly does, the bolt sits in the center of the spindle inside, I've installed a few Ultra-Torque cranksets before and you don't have to torque it up to 60 Nm (this is crazy high for a bicycle component), I went with 45 Nm, still well within the required torque range. I've heard of mechanics breaking the bolt of Super Record Ultra-Torque cranksets because they didn't know the bolt is left-hand threaded, even though the bolt itself bears markings that show which direction to turn to tighten.
I thought that a cnc machined part would be weaker than a cast one. Talking about the derailleur hanger you used. I think I learned that on Hambini's channel.
I don’t see any significant aerodynamic advantage on skylon when compared to ADH. The only aero part is the seat tube😅 Time non and Campags are both not mainstream and very special. I think Time frame should be optimised more for the good old mechanical shifting. Campy EPS is the most expensive and least user friendly groupset to my knowledge. The only reason for owning one is just pure emotion.
Forget heat shrink, go with spiral wire wrap. You can take it off and on easily for service and still makes everything very neat.
Heat shrink looks nicer.
@@Mapdec true, I guess your customer doesn't care about serviceability, until he gets the bill for hours ;)
Rim Brakes >