Two Fabric Key Fobs That DON’T POP OFF! Super Scrap Project And Great Easy Gifts!

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  • Опубліковано 29 вер 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 217

  • @candicearmstrong2437
    @candicearmstrong2437 3 роки тому +107

    I found that it’s the no-prong side of the fob that has the fabric pull out the most. What I’ve been doing is sewing the ends together with a zig-zag stitch, and then pressing the key fob hardware on. The prong side is still being pushed into the fabric and the zig-zag stitch is helping to keep both fabric ends inside the hardware.

  • @conqueringmountscrapmorewi2509
    @conqueringmountscrapmorewi2509 3 роки тому +2

    Such a lovely project! Thank you for posting!

  • @carilynjurgeson6178
    @carilynjurgeson6178 Рік тому

    I would use some of those clips as a key clip to hang your keys from inside of the bag.

  • @amymabbott8738
    @amymabbott8738 3 роки тому +90

    I fuse glass and often use e6000, love it, but...
    TIP: BUY MULTIPLE SMALL TUBES of e6000 INSTEAD OF THE LARGER TUBE. Tubes gum up quickly and and become difficult to squeeze.

    • @threadsbyelle6077
      @threadsbyelle6077 3 роки тому +2

      Good to know. Thanks for sharing 👍

    • @lauriepayseur5897
      @lauriepayseur5897 9 місяців тому

      I use a color key to avoid this issue. It squeezes evenly & allows no waste. It’s a little tool that hairdressers use to squeeze color out of the metal tubes.

    • @bubbles2868
      @bubbles2868 8 місяців тому +3

      Tip to prevent that, put small a amount of Vaseline around tube threads before putting the cap back on the E6000.

    • @lauriepayseur5897
      @lauriepayseur5897 8 місяців тому

      @@bubbles2868 thanks! I truly never have a hard time with my glue. I just keep a spar tree pair of pliers handy just in case but I’ve never had to waste product to get it open. I will try this too though. The tiny tubes just seem like a waste of money because overall it costs more that way. But to each their own .

  • @jennifercox2089
    @jennifercox2089 3 роки тому +38

    I use them for the end caps on my purse straps. Then you can hook masks and keys.

    • @daniellepierson8821
      @daniellepierson8821 3 роки тому +4

      I love to see a photo. I can not picture this

    • @sugarmuffin57
      @sugarmuffin57 3 роки тому +2

      Interesting...I am with Danielle. Love to see a pic of that. Do you have any on Facebook/instagram?

    • @neonsolofficial
      @neonsolofficial 3 роки тому +1

      I would also love to see a photo of this, please!

    • @martafeliciano1753
      @martafeliciano1753 2 роки тому

      I just tried your idea and it worked great. My sister is loving her bag. Thx a mil.

    • @robynwilliams460
      @robynwilliams460 2 роки тому +1

      I would love to see a photo as well as I can’t picture it either.

  • @lauranugent1171
    @lauranugent1171 3 роки тому +31

    Please PLEASE be careful burning threads after using e6000 (or any glue). The smell are chemicals that can ignite!! Best to wait to burn down your threads until the glue has cured.

  • @Kera.S.
    @Kera.S. 3 роки тому +24

    I know it might take a bit longer, but what about using an awl to puncture a tiny hole where the prongs are going to be going through the fabric. Then putting a tiny dab of glue on the holes/on the prongs, to secure the fob into the fabric...

    • @nanab573
      @nanab573 3 роки тому

      I was thinking the same thing.

    • @OklaRoots
      @OklaRoots  3 роки тому

      That’s a great suggestion!

  • @MEH28937
    @MEH28937 3 роки тому +17

    I sew over my super sticky tape all the time - I keep a little box of alcohol pads from the dollar store by my machine and when I’m done sewing I unthread just my needle clean it with the pad and my needle is ready to go.

  • @christinamejer1892
    @christinamejer1892 Рік тому +7

    I buy hardware from Amazon that has 3 prongs, not 2 . I also sew the ends together before attaching the hardware with the special pliers.

  • @meganb.4153
    @meganb.4153 Рік тому +6

    📏Try the outer material being almost 2in longer and center it.
    📎So the clasp on has to go through 2 layers vs 4. 👍😀💜

  • @lynnosullivan1754
    @lynnosullivan1754 3 роки тому +17

    Great suggestion. Thinking about this to add to Halloween treat bags to hand out. Something other than just more candy.

  • @lorenabort9717
    @lorenabort9717 2 роки тому +12

    I use 3M double sided ¼" tape on the end where the teeth are. The tape works on pressure and helps it from shifting.

  • @MelissaH05
    @MelissaH05 9 місяців тому +6

    I'm sooooo happy that 2 years later your 15% discount on the kamsnaps bundle still works! My husband ordered it for me for Christmas. I'm excited to use the die for the key fobs!!!!

  • @cindyhappel7376
    @cindyhappel7376 Рік тому +4

    Jess, thank you for this tutorial. I just ordered some key fob hardware and will be making some of these for a craft fair in October. Thanks for the tip on the E6000.

  • @kathyballantyne5934
    @kathyballantyne5934 3 роки тому +5

    I find the prongs get bent or are not always at an angle to puncture the fabric well. So I adjust the prongs with needle nose pliers before putting the fabric in.

  • @hollyk4368
    @hollyk4368 3 роки тому +10

    Let’s suggest to Kam Snaps that they make the hardware with prongs on both sides. I also hope and want to suggest they create dies and hardware for purse feet!!

    • @fairlightmatthews7372
      @fairlightmatthews7372 2 роки тому +1

      you've probably seen it, but Kam Snaps has a rivet for purse feet

  • @sommersprossen12345
    @sommersprossen12345 Рік тому +3

    I made these a while back when I had a yard sale and tried to sell them there. I had about a dozen of them some in fabric some in vinyl. some long, some short, All mixed but didn’t sell a single one. I was disaponted . I was only asking a couple of dollars but I guess it depends on the market.

  • @roycewoods9219
    @roycewoods9219 3 роки тому +7

    I bought some of those key fobs but haven’t done anything with them because I wasn’t sure how. I know how to do them now. Thank you. I just ordered a Kamsnap press, now I’m going to have to order the key fob die.

  • @mylilbirdiecreations
    @mylilbirdiecreations 3 роки тому +4

    I've seen people use vinyl on one side and htv on the other side. No sew and it's thin enough for the hardware to attach. Haven't tried it myself though, but maybe that would be an option??

  • @suzys4316
    @suzys4316 3 роки тому +5

    HI Jess, have you tried with the inner fabric a little shorter than the other ? so when you folded it over to put the keyfob on, its thinner on the ends, you only need the inner fabric the depth of the fob shorter if that makes sense ( if the keyfob is an inch in depth, take 2 " of the inner fabric, line it up so you have and 1" each end ) makes the ends not so thick, no glue needed then

  • @suepetitjean6553
    @suepetitjean6553 Рік тому +4

    Jess, on the hardware for the keyfobs, I use a pair of pliers & adjust the angle of the two/three teeth. Many times the angle is slanted too much for thicker fabrics. I straighten those teeth so that they grab more of the fabric by digging in deeper. Not sure I’m describing this well enough, I can send a photo if wanted.

    • @smorrison1007
      @smorrison1007 Рік тому

      If you don’t mind making a video and sending? I’m having such a hard time with these buggers!

  • @luckyblackcat16
    @luckyblackcat16 3 роки тому +8

    Glue is always a great backup/hidden support for those hardware components that take some abuse! Have you thought about using the key fob hardware in place of D-rings for something like wristlets or small pouches?

    • @Grammanonna1957
      @Grammanonna1957 2 роки тому +2

      I wondered that the other day…how cute would the hardware look holding the handles onto a tote bag or purse!

  • @chickad5820
    @chickad5820 6 місяців тому +2

    If you want to still use your needle you can clean off the adhesive with an alcohol pad or alcohol and a cotton ball. If there's still to much glue, take the needle out and use oil on your fingers wait a few seconds then wipe off. Cleans all and any sticky off needles, jars, plastic, ect...
    If you get adhesive on your iron use a dryer sheet with your iron on low heat. The dryer sheet has an oil base like chemical. If you're iron is too hot, it will burn you through the crunched up dryer sheet. Turn your iron down. I've also ironed the dryer sheet but the oil base will get on your ironing surface so protect it. Works fabulous and quick. I use the same dryer sheet till it no longer has any chemicals left. Works like magic.

  • @debw5860
    @debw5860 2 роки тому +2

    What kind of vinyl are you using for this project.

  • @sherrylollis2152
    @sherrylollis2152 Рік тому +2

    This was great timing. My dad passed away a year ago and I got his ties from mom. Y plan was to make key fobs for my nieces and nephews. The first one I made, the hardware pulled off. I tried 3 times and was disheartened. I went as far as ordering new types of hardware. I’ll give the glue a try and see if that helps.

  • @virginianadzam4658
    @virginianadzam4658 3 роки тому +4

    I made a bunch of these a few months ago and mine would pop apart too, until I sewed the one end together and spread glue on that end and then I didn't have anymore problems unless they were operator error.

  • @carolineirwin2716
    @carolineirwin2716 3 роки тому +5

    Thank you. I too have played with these over the past 6 months and I did not think of the E6000. I will have to make some using the adhesive and will give you an update. Thank you for always presenting great material!! ❤️

  • @reneejones9662
    @reneejones9662 3 роки тому +4

    "Kids will probably carry their backpacks with them" hahahahah sooooo true!

  • @dorothyschaack1490
    @dorothyschaack1490 3 роки тому +3

    I made 160 for a golf benefit. I used a combination of glue and the Kam key fob press.

  • @AngieKT327
    @AngieKT327 3 роки тому +24

    This is such a relevant video for me right now! Just tried making key fobs for the first time last week, used quilt cotton and 1 layer of batting. Attached to my keys and used for a day and it popped off! I bought a 100 pack to sell so I gotta get these right, so I can be confident in their sturdiness before selling!

    • @naturegirl2110
      @naturegirl2110 3 роки тому +1

      Did you figure it out

    • @AngieKT327
      @AngieKT327 3 роки тому +5

      @@naturegirl2110 I think mine was a combo of not being clamped down enough and honestly I think mine was too thin. For my 1” hardware I was cutting fabric at 4” and only a 1” strip of batting. I doubled up the batting to 2” wide and bought some of the e6000 glue and that seems to be working so far! 🤞🏻

    • @neonsolofficial
      @neonsolofficial 3 роки тому +4

      I highly recommend the kamsnaps press with the key fob dies! Seriously changed the game for me!

    • @maryatkinson1597
      @maryatkinson1597 2 роки тому +1

      @@neonsolofficial i cannot find it with the dies. Could u share a link?

  • @JerrieLegree
    @JerrieLegree Рік тому +2

    Great video...I used hot fix Chrystals on these to add a bit of bling!😊

  • @crystalford4414
    @crystalford4414 3 роки тому +3

    I totally thought you had cut your gray iron mat. I was like, “why would she do that?!” Then I realized it was black material. 🤣🤣🤣🤣

  • @aScarletYeti
    @aScarletYeti 3 роки тому +13

    I open the little “teeth” more to make sure they grip. Do 4x12 cotton woven interfaced and top stitching. Then I fold and stitch the ends together before putting hardware on

    • @classicneedle541
      @classicneedle541 2 роки тому

      YES! that extra bit of bulk gives that hardware something to hold on to! I do the same.

  • @pamlawson9410
    @pamlawson9410 3 роки тому +2

    Please tell me where you got that blue cutting/pressing mat. I so need one.

  • @Bethyj2u
    @Bethyj2u 2 роки тому +2

    E6000 for the win, again. I use that for everything. I even bought my husband some. Mine kept disappearing off my work table. I have dozens of key fobs that I’m getting ready to sew. Now I’ll add e6000 to the end. Thanks for sharing your talent

  • @lizziedae91
    @lizziedae91 3 роки тому +15

    Another alternative would be to skip the keyfob hardware and use a strong metal snap. Thats how my vera bradley one is and i love it

    • @margiecastonguay517
      @margiecastonguay517 2 роки тому

      Does it have a d ring above the snap. For keys

    • @lizziedae91
      @lizziedae91 2 роки тому +1

      @@margiecastonguay517 it has a key ring instead and then another one at the other end. Its so handy for snapping around the handle on the dog leash

    • @katherinebonner1284
      @katherinebonner1284 11 місяців тому

      Great video, and learn a lot. Why use vinyl on the backside?

  • @courenevaz7330
    @courenevaz7330 2 роки тому +2

    This was very helpful for me because I'm trying to start my own online business for myself and you made this so simple thank you.

  • @alicebrown60
    @alicebrown60 2 місяці тому

    Thank you for this helpful video! My brother was a huge NASCAR fan. For his Celebration of Life, I am embroidering on solid color vinyl side, "In Memory of..." and then sewing them to black and white checkered racing quilt cotton fabric to make key fobs in my brother's memory. I am making the 1.25" wide size. Can you tell me which width of double sided tape you used (1/4" or 1/2" wide)? Thanks for the clarification.

  • @enjoytheridelovely
    @enjoytheridelovely 11 місяців тому +1

    Thank you for such a great video! Where do you get your vinyl from? I would love to try and make a few like that! Thank you so much!

  • @tipekapoo
    @tipekapoo Рік тому +1

    Has anyone had any issue with fobs smelling like the E6000 glue ? I bagged a big batch together for about a week after I finished them and now they smell so strong from the glue. I've washed them and hung outside to dry, the odor is still there. Any suggestions? Thanks

  • @robinvannostran7310
    @robinvannostran7310 Рік тому

    I picked up SF101 from Joanns - but it doesn’t look like yours. (Mine is see-through) Are there different versions of SF101?

  • @katherine5587
    @katherine5587 2 місяці тому

    Please tell me where you got the little cup holders that are hanging from your peg boards behind you. Thank you. And great video!!

  • @katherine5587
    @katherine5587 2 місяці тому

    Great video! Could you please tell me where you got the little cups that are hanging on your peg board behind you. I could really use a few of those. Thanks!!

  • @MuzikInZpired
    @MuzikInZpired 3 роки тому +2

    I like the e6000 idea. I started with key fobs before getting into bags. I used cotton webbing and ribbon so I have a ton of laying around. I bought key fob does for my press but stopped making them 🤦🏾‍♀️

  • @msandrews7348
    @msandrews7348 2 роки тому +1

    Like Amy Mabbott indicated use e6000 on the flat side then clamp together. That's a suggestion one youtuber shared! Good luck!👍🏼

  • @epminer
    @epminer 2 роки тому +2

    What a great tutorial on the key fobs. Thanks so much. And I love the suggestion of using E6000 in the small prong holes.

  • @wickedlysweets
    @wickedlysweets Рік тому +1

    thank you for the great video. I am curious about those bins you have your hardware in. Where did you purchase and how do you keep them on your pegboard?

  • @debodesouza
    @debodesouza Рік тому

    Hi! I love these videos. Does anyone know where ti purchase vinyl from? I don’t believe joanns sells it

  • @Lawyerforlife1
    @Lawyerforlife1 8 місяців тому

    Hi, love the video. Can you share where I can purchase the "key fob dies for the cam press?" Thanks

  • @classicneedle541
    @classicneedle541 2 роки тому +1

    I sew the ends right sides together with a ¼" seam then turn right side before applying the hardware...the bulk of the seam gives the teeth something to grab on. For extra security a dab of E6000.

  • @lyndakrueger2759
    @lyndakrueger2759 3 роки тому +1

    Could you have cut the vinyl the width of the fob, not folder it over, and stitched it to the folded quilt cotton, to reduce some of the bulk?

  • @lizziedae91
    @lizziedae91 3 роки тому +1

    I know the kamsnap press has a die for key fobs. My press isn’t from kamsnaps and doesn’t have that die yet so its good to know they make key fob hardware with screws

  • @sampritchard9480
    @sampritchard9480 2 роки тому +1

    thank you for sharing. I'm trying to get a small business going. its nice to be able to see how things are made. one of my top priority's are that I will not sell something that is going to fall apart the next day or even in a month. beautiful work

  • @toriwilliams2304
    @toriwilliams2304 2 місяці тому

    I put electric tape wrapped on my fat pilers and it prevents the dents either purchasing another tool 😊

  • @jaynemay7536
    @jaynemay7536 Рік тому +1

    I had no idea Kamsnaps made dies for these! I’ve placed my order. Thanks so much!

  • @rachaelb9164
    @rachaelb9164 2 роки тому +1

    The color changing vinyl is way cool. Reminds me of the “Hypercolor” t-shirts I had in the early 90’s.

  • @bubbles2868
    @bubbles2868 Рік тому

    They're the same method. Only difference was the interface.

  • @thorabilcke8645
    @thorabilcke8645 2 місяці тому

    I can’t get the prongs to bite into the fabric like all the videos I see 😢

  • @helensullivan8942
    @helensullivan8942 2 місяці тому

    Put some beacon tacky glue in it. No problem.

  • @jennifermassello8670
    @jennifermassello8670 3 роки тому +1

    How awesome! The hubs keeps that glue around! Have to borrow it and give key fobs a try!!

  • @djparrish2053
    @djparrish2053 3 роки тому +1

    I just sew+the two ends together before I put the fob on.

  • @pauleyedwin6056
    @pauleyedwin6056 10 місяців тому

    It sounds like the metal fob needs teeth on both sides. Some one needs to make better fobs.

  • @kellykasakaitas6306
    @kellykasakaitas6306 Місяць тому

    I know this video is old, but i put mine in a vice clamp.

  • @lilliejones1964
    @lilliejones1964 3 місяці тому

    I put e600 on the other one that starts a 5 then clamp down on them

  • @TheKatyQ
    @TheKatyQ 3 роки тому +1

    I don’t use key fobs I make mine similar to the way you make clutch straps. Sewn on. Lasts a long time

  • @dollymontiel4388
    @dollymontiel4388 3 роки тому +1

    Great job and good tips for key fobs! Thanks!!!!

  • @lisagonda7846
    @lisagonda7846 3 роки тому +1

    Love that sweater, it looks good on you.

  • @connielemons9349
    @connielemons9349 28 днів тому

    where did you get your presser?

  • @maryjaneharris6187
    @maryjaneharris6187 3 роки тому +1

    You make the best videos- thank you!

  • @purplemoon8637
    @purplemoon8637 2 місяці тому

    I just sew a d-ring on it.❤

  • @laurielous.3580
    @laurielous.3580 7 місяців тому

    This was so helpful. Thank you! I just bought the glue and am shopping for hardware.
    I have not read any comments about the type that screws shut [rather than relies on the prongs]. Does anyone have any feedback on that style?

  • @yvonnemoretti7646
    @yvonnemoretti7646 9 місяців тому

    I just bought this hardware! I just spotted the special plyers for it. Will need to check on this E6000 glue. Thank you for all the tips. Gotta get it right for ladies event in February.

  • @jackiekristoff2880
    @jackiekristoff2880 3 роки тому

    PLEASE HELP!! I have been looking for the 3/4 inch key fob hardware and cannot find any. Jess where do you get yours from? I did click on the link you have in this video, but, they do not have any in their store. Also is Nylon webbing as good as cotton webbing? 3/4 inch webbing is also hard to find. Any help is GREATLY appreciated. TIA
    Jackie Kristoff

  • @Lady_of_Ishpeming
    @Lady_of_Ishpeming 9 місяців тому

    If you should sew over any glue and your needles get gummed up, you can clean your needles with rubbing alcohol and extend the life of them.

  • @alejandrita2610
    @alejandrita2610 8 місяців тому

    Toooo muchhh talk lady

  • @lindaconti8023
    @lindaconti8023 Місяць тому

    Thank you for the top with E6000 glue and the sticking tape to hold the edges until they are sewn.

  • @lynetterene
    @lynetterene 3 роки тому

    I make these all the time...😊....I was thinking glue?? I just saw the suggestion for glue in the comments....I have only used cotton weight fabrics....good to see you making these.....thanks for sharing....p.s. frustrating part.....when I use the pliers sometimes it breaks apart 🤦🏾‍♀️

  • @maybelle5
    @maybelle5 Рік тому

    Ironically my issue is sewing vinyl on one side and cotton woven on the other - I have tried two bobbins, all the tensions and still the underside is an ugly mess LOL but if i just sew the vinyl its fine, if i just sew cotton it's fine, if I sew 3-4 layers of vinyl? still fine. But one side vinyl and one side cotton is apparently not allowed >.

  • @shananorris6966
    @shananorris6966 2 роки тому

    I just created a key fob with cork fabric watching another you tube video... and it did this very thing after I got finished 😫 I have the same fob with the 2 teeth.... any suggestions on fixing it? Did you happen to make any with cork and use the glue? If so, did it work okay as well?

  • @debbiefinlayson2294
    @debbiefinlayson2294 2 роки тому

    I haven't read through all the comments to see if this was suggested. What I have found if I use my stiletto or my small Kam snaps hole poker on the teeth facing side, I get a better grip. just a tiny hole. even a sewing needle/pins hole would work. The teeth still get a grip on their side, but it also helps them grab the other side. Sewing them together and using superglue/e6000 is an added sticky bit

  • @1954evelyn
    @1954evelyn 2 роки тому

    Hi I purchased the press from Gold Star tools before I found Kamsnaps, does anyone know if the dies for Kamsnap press will fit, or am I going to have to purchase a Kamsnap press to fit their dies

  • @joana4771
    @joana4771 3 роки тому

    Have you thought of using in place of Square d ring strap connector?!?!?!!!

  • @hollyk4368
    @hollyk4368 3 роки тому +1

    What about beacon glue?

  • @colleenscott1217
    @colleenscott1217 Рік тому

    I have recently had a heart attack and stroke and thought these would be great to make. Where can I get the key fobs you used in this video?

  • @kojw7100
    @kojw7100 11 місяців тому

    I’d start sewing the ends of the strap together slightly inside the edge so you don’t see the threads on the outside edges of the key fob, if that makes sense? I love E6000 glue!

  • @RuthWittenbrook
    @RuthWittenbrook 8 місяців тому

    I love your wall hanging with the bins. Where did you get that?

  • @Heather-yx4cu
    @Heather-yx4cu 3 роки тому +1

    I make these for my shop and I love the tape idea because the iron can make the fabric too hot to handle sometimes! Do youmind offering the name of the tape you use? Thank you!

    • @OklaRoots
      @OklaRoots  3 роки тому +1

      Yea of course! Here you go: www.wawak.com/Bag-Construction/Basting-Tape/super-strong-double-sided-vinylleather-basting-tape-clear?sku=TPE14&gclid=CjwKCAjwhOyJBhA4EiwAEcJdcZe-xItmKGu9OSQXy5ZAjDFCcOzRc5gCWHQzS6oJW5o2XkBjGTBE6RoCWU8QAvD_BwE

    • @threadsbyelle6077
      @threadsbyelle6077 3 роки тому

      Dritz makes wash-a-way ‘wonder tape’ , specifically for sewing that doesn’t gum up needle. A lot of folks use it to keep zippers in place while installing.

  • @yolandacummings4577
    @yolandacummings4577 Рік тому

    Where to buy 3/4” hardware? Or are you using a different size?

  • @MadeByTriniLena
    @MadeByTriniLena 3 роки тому +1

    Blessings Jess✂️🧵

  • @dawnbyrd8704
    @dawnbyrd8704 3 роки тому +1

    As always, super cute

  • @user-lr5cx1ni4r
    @user-lr5cx1ni4r 8 місяців тому

    Love your tutorial. Super cute. The press is too expensive, in my opinion.

  • @elizabethhamer2425
    @elizabethhamer2425 10 місяців тому

    You have one of the best tutorials I have seen. You are fun and know your stuff. Good luck. You will be successful!

  • @emilydavid1388
    @emilydavid1388 2 роки тому

    I hate that you are putting the pretty fabric on the inside 😭. Great tutorial though, love your channel

  • @terrigreuling7413
    @terrigreuling7413 Рік тому

    I sew the layers of fabric together and then I put a bead of hot glue in the crease of the fob. Never have an issue anymore

  • @chanelschannel4705
    @chanelschannel4705 2 роки тому

    What about using epoxy glue to add , in addition to , the key Fob - so they’ll stay put- after you close them?

  • @Cyrilmc222004
    @Cyrilmc222004 Рік тому

    Thank you so much I really really enjoyed watching you create those wristlets and I can see that the way forward is E6000 and the press too. I really really love ❤️ the one’s you created too. Please stay safe and well too xxx Mags

  • @maxi4505
    @maxi4505 9 місяців тому

    For what dose you put glue and what sort of glue is please ?

  • @lupinsrose
    @lupinsrose 3 роки тому +1

    Perfect video!

  • @chandramcdaniel5676
    @chandramcdaniel5676 Рік тому

    Your sewing Rm wall, what are those cups.

  • @helenbennett1188
    @helenbennett1188 2 роки тому

    I can get the hardware for the fob but I can’t get the die for the press in the uk, any ideas