Why do you not report on Animated DC Superheroes movies ? This year DC trilogy flopped. It not HBO app (sold on youtube et cetera), but a hand full of others are .
@@katarn848 Though there are a few exceptions, animation is generally outside our wheelhouse ... we'll certainly do an exception for Watchmen once part 2 is out, then we can see what else we can bring up in the process.
No one wanted a Joker movie where he's beaten, humiliated, gang graped and killed while Lady Gaga sings and prances around. Even though the first movie made a billion it apparently had the ''wrong audience''. This new movie seems to have course corrected to include all the demoralization propaganda we usually see in modern media.
Wow, great analysis! I loved the first movie, and was looking to see this one, but thought it was weird they put Lady Gaga in it. Thanks for saving me time and money!
You are correct. Phillips seems to have set out to deliberately make a "bad" film as kind of an apology to the media for making them angry with the original film.
All they had to do was copy John carpenter movies, use the escape movies, assualt on precinct 13, and for horror elements add they live and the thing.... make the gangs that he inspired do things in his name and have the joker treated like a idol when he appears, make him get noticeably crazier and end up destroying the coalition of gangs (but he now has his own group of believers)... make the whole film about him trying to get back at people he feels are against his "big plan", he gets two of the three hes after but the third doesn't exist...there aren't many seige films done from the villains pov
I'm a woman, in a long-term relationship, who is into artsy subversive films or contrarily, into very girlie feel-good ones. I'm also about as left-wing as you can get. According to the moral pontificators such as Todd, I'm not someone who was supposed to enjoy the first Joker film. However, I absolutely loved the first Joker and I can't stand what they did with the second one. I never saw the first Joker as some glorification of incels. I saw it as a film about the inevitable social unrest that comes out of a cruel and dismissive society, and Arthur as the personification of the unrest. To me, the second film just destroys all of it and says, 'no, you will lick the boot, peasants'.
We have fundamentally different world views, but come to the same conclusion here. Especially the "you will pick the boot, peasants" part. But I think the second movie goes even deeper. I think Todd Phillips took a twisted joy in humiliating and degrading Arthur Fleck. I got the feeling the audience was supposed to see the guards as the good guys and cheer for every bad thing that happens to Arthur. It's not just a lack of compassion or empathy, it's a profound disgust and hatred that is not healthy to have for any human being, real or fictional. And that's not all. The first film was meant to be taken the same way. The only difference there is that the first film was open ended enough that everyone chose very different interpretations of Arthur Fleck than what Todd Phillips intended. The only reason the first film was so good was because it was subtle enough to interpret differently and the only reason it was a success was entirely accidental on Todd Phillips' part.
I don't have a problem with your interpretation of the first film. I'm someone whom it was supposed to radicalise, but that would involve leaving my mother's basement. 🤪 I haven't seen the second one, because these days, all mainstream entertainment needs to be pre-screened for overt messaging / propaganda by my UA-cam bubble. Joker 2 did not pass.
I still am not sure that it's wise to blame phillips. I was always under the impression that he didn't want to make a sequel and it's possible that he just made the movie the studio wanted him to make after the first one for a paycheck or for pressure tearing the first movie down. Since this is what happens all the time with movies now a days I find it more likely the studio is to blame since there's a constant pattern. As for left wing there are plenty of left wing policies I'd agree with but the left have become so disgusting that I go against them at every turn out of spite and don't want to be associated with them in any way shape or form. I think most people are currently going that way since the mainstream which is currently left wing is authoritarian more then anything. They all want the boot licked but i still think we gotta give benefit of doubt to individuals within the system until they're proven to be the system and not the one that licked the authoritarian boot.
“The highest art of warfare is not to fight at all, but to subvert anything of value in the country of your enemy until such time that the perception of reality of your enemy is screwed up to such an extent that he does not perceive you as an enemy. You then can take your enemy without a single shot being fired.” Yuri Bezmenov, former Russian KGB agent.
It's a fantastic quote but I can't seem to apply it to this situation. You're saying Phillips is an artful warrior who subversively devalued our Joker with this movie, so that... what? Let's just start with who's the enemy and who's the warrior here... I say pretentious farte sniffer, big budget, lesson learned, but I'm no incel and don't always have the depth to understand at first glance.
Except that only works in the abstract. When you deconstruct structures and institutions they won’t trust the replacements. Then when the enemy invade the enemy will know.
Jeremy Jahns said it best. If you took out the musical bits it would have been a more coherent movie and you would have reduced the runtime. Why did it have to have musical numbers in it? People know what Lady Gaga sounds like and most fans of the Joker don't want to hear her sing.
Because music can be used to control minds 🧐 and predowood is so evil, their intentions are all but benevolent. Gaga is used to control minds. She's a textbook plant by a certain Farm of clowns 😜 . Everything that's been happening this year, is related to November. So either the director was completely on board because the details I'm hearing of what's happening to Arthur and Joaquin Phoenix sound like a humiliation ritual, and predowood are casting their nasty spells on the viewers. Or the director was forced under duress (again, that humiliation ritual) to make that sequel. What if he botched things just enough for plausible deniability so the spells couldn't take hold of the viewers, and still justify to his handlers that he did his best to deliver a competent production.
To quote one of the guys that worked on the original Little Mermaid: "If you can cut the music from the movie and it still makes sense you haven't done your job properly."
@@erickelly1323 a few of the e musical bits were ok. I think the audience would’ve been fine with 3 musical bits tops. They overdid it in every scene and it was tiresome. When Author told her to stop singing it was ironically funny because that’s how the audience felt. Spielberg has talked about pushing the audiences too far. Said they’re willing to accept a few odd things as long as the overall film makes up for it.
Jeremy Jahns is a fucking shill though. Glad I stopped watching him like a decade ago or something. He doesn't have the balls to have a unique opinion on anything and just says the same shit all the youtube critics say in unison. Stuckmann being the other.
The film wasn't made for a sequel. The Director didn't want to do a sequel. The audience didn't want to watch a sequel. The studio execs only have themselves to blame. They threw good money away and further damaged the already damaged DC brand even further.
I think a sequel could've been good if they had actually let the Joker be the Joker the second time around. But as it stands, we have two Joker movies and still no actual Joker action.
It always had an uphill battle - ‘Joker’ was a film that everybody went to see, but nobody has watched since - it has little ‘replayability’, you saw it, you ‘enjoyed’ it, but it was a bit of a downer to be honest, so not many people actually wanted ‘more’.
My girl and I saw it 3 times, twice in theaters. I wanted to see this one (even though I felt it completely unnecessary), but the energy felt off since the first trailer came out. I had a feeling this one would miss the mark, but I had no idea how abysmal its reception would really be.
It was good at showing how a child scorned by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth, but it was a bit… much, and honestly triggering for me, personally. It definitely has its worth and value, though.
@@HavianEla Oh no doubt about it, some of that shit was triggering af. I think I appreciated seeing that in a modern theatrical release, it used to be the norm in the 90s but things have changed with how stories are depicted these days (some for the better, but mostly for the worst imo). It was edgy and poignant in a way that transcended the movie itself; I haven’t carried a film’s theme and imagery in my heart after watching it since seeing the Matrix in theaters. That doesn’t mean it was the best film ever, I’ll never go THAT far, but it provided an escape from the cookie-cutter Marvelized comic book genre. My bar is so low, I just need a film to go against the grain and forgo traditional Hollywood tropes (like musicals and courtroom dramas) to be interesting lol
The first Joker film was VERY good, and yet, I only watched it once, and I did not clamor for a sequel. Thank God above that I did not watch the sequel. Smh
At this point Hollywood is like a broken clock, when they actually get a success is purely by accident. They don't understand what they got right, let alone what they got wrong.
@MrCarpediem6 that or they could have started a different run at it. Like a Batman (Peterson) and a Dark Night. Make the sequel about a young guy like 18 to 21 he idolize Auther, you have their bond grow, and Auther is sick or dying. You tie in the Wayne's, and at the end, you have this guy kill the Wayne's behind the theater, as he blames them for his death, he gets captured goes to the nut house and we have a real joker later on.
I think it was POSSIBLE to do a good sequel. Yes, even with musical numbers (the first had quite a few). Yes, even with Gaga. But it certainly would have required an entirely different script.
And yet, somewhat ironically, the audiences is schooling the studios. They are just really slow learners, but when they keep bombing out financially the shareholders might start listening.
Hate to say by now it's most likely the only option not because I don't like RC or little vehicles but used to also have little space soldiers and such but they also came for them, guess the only option now are hobbies without lore or just historical ones wich they can't ruin in any way.
This movie could be considered a commentary on what Hollywood keeps doing to all of our heroes. Think about it, Luke Skywalker, Han Solo, Indiana Jones, The Doctor, Jean Luc Picard, Thor, and now Joker - all getting beaten down, gangraped and murdered because the wrong audience liked them.
Where on earth did that money go? They had few location shoots, small limited sets and very few VFX shots. It felt like the movie had a smaller budget and that's why it had to take place in the small prison and court room so long.
They hated their idea of the original audience so bad they projected their vile fantasies on poor Arthur as the scapegoat to hurt their hearts through his pain. This film is a disgusting act of ill-hearted hate and malice. Only a monster would purposefully take that budget and turn a great film's sequel into a *&^%$# musical.
It's their world of illusion and they don't like films inspiring individuals into resisting them, so they took a giant dump on themselves and the fans just to prove a point and remind everyone the entertainment industry is theirs to control and program the public with.
I actually have alot more to say, i could talk for hours about all the different techniques but i have learned that all this knowledge is useless, i think this is inevitable and will happen again in 10 years once everyone forgets. It already happened hundreds of times at this point. We have to accept it as normal at this point
"Beyond that, there will be no further consequences from this flop". That's why writers and directors keep spitting in the face of the customer: they don't face consequences. Todd Phillips will continue to get high paid director roles, and the MSM will keep blaming the fans.
When does the media blame fans? What are you talking about???? Do you mean individual actors and producers are blaming fans? Movie studios are blaming fans?
hes going to hollywood jail dont kid yourself. they thought they had a bonfide hit and miscalced 100% everyone is projecting too much intelligence onto these losers in hollywood. they are out of touch and have no idea how to consistently make good films for a paying audience anymore. they definitely are trying to make money but they care about their stupid cringe politics too much and they cant understand why we wont buy their garbage products anymore.
Joker was open and shut. You weren't supposed to completely sympathise with Arthur Fleck but understand why the apathy and contempt shown towards him could cause him to do the things he does. The people of Gotham essentially brought it on themselves. Turning it into a musical and shoehorning Harley Quinn into it? That feels like spite.
Yes, the Joker is an evil person. The first movie showed how he got that way. In no way did I find Fleck a sympathetic character, he was disgusting. Many, if not all of us, suffer depredations and choose humanity over inhumanity.
Bingo. The point is to make the villain a 3D character one can understand, not to make the villain into the hero. Hollywood is not capable of even understanding this, let alone capitalizing on it.
I knew good and well who the Joker was. However I was able to sympathize with him to a certain point and then cut off sympathy completely once he reached a certain point, and then he just gets worse. I always thought that was the point of the film.
Someone at Warner actually looked at all of those bullet points and said “Yeah….they’re gonna love this. THIS is what Batman and Joker fans have wanted…green light time, baby….green light….”
To be fair, the name is what is professionally used in psychology, criminal justice and psychiatry to destribe the phenomenon of madness of two (or more, can happen to whole families) so I actually quite liked it.
She put out a great album and music videos a few years ago. The problem with this movie is it shows the only the downside. The Joker loves his life of crime. And is successful at it. There are criminals like that.
Ever since the Matrix sequel's jettisoned everything thought provoking and interesting about the First film, in exchange for longer (and more boring) fight scenes, I have been aware of Hollywood's agenda to kill off anything that asks relevant questions about the real world. So I am not surprised to hear that the 2nd Joker movie has followed suit and, took a big dump on everything that made the 1st movie interesting. As Heath Ledger's Joker said "it's all part of the plan", to kill off what made cinema great in the last century and at times, this century too, so that the bigwigs' can take cinema further down the brain dead road they are travelling on. They want men to be women and vice versa, like in the offices at Disney and other big studios with lower IQ's to match!
@MJanovicable It all died a while ago for me, and honestly, I don't miss it, I am worried about what all this is doing to the minds of younger people growing up in this world though. This woke agenda will not be beaten, I think. They will carry on making shit while telling us it is sugar and the younger generation will accept it because it's the world they grew up in. An all female "Fight Club" is being made apparently, I heard Charlize Theron will be in it, and it disturbs me. Women fighting each other just seems alien to me, which is not sexism, it's just totally against what I believe women represent. What happened to the wholesome, nurturing mothers? They have been replaced with a man's outlook, and vice-versa. I heard a while ago that Jesse J's song "it's not about the money " was really about the system not being interested in making money from the entertainment industry, how it is just interested in spreading it's political message and although I thought it was a bit fetching then, it makes more sense now. I wish it would all die and go back to how things were, but to use another "Joker" quote, "there's no going back, they've changed things, forever".
I wasn’t opposed to a musical…if done right I think the audience can stomach it…maybe how like in the boys like musical numbers and animals were used to convey the pain and trauma Black noir had sustained at the hands of soldier boy.
Since Hollywood sang "Imagine" during lockdown, and the release of "Cats" people aren't remotely interested in singing being injected into their favorite film franchises.
I'm a comic book fan who read several stories including Joker and honestly I think he could be a perfect musical main character. Singing while torturing, killing while dancing, it seems natural to me.
Well, this movie wasn't full of constant CGI (which is cheap) and had A LOT, (a lot. Did I mention it had a LOT) of musical numbers that were not only great musically (movie aside) and intricate (which takes a LOT of skilled musicians and stage helpers to produce). The scenes that weren't dance scenes likely used real life sets (not a small front set and largely green screened background) costing more money. If you watch the movie from a purely CINEMATIC way, story aside entirely, the film was shot, made, set, setup, and produced incredibly. The stories content however, leaves much to be desired to say the least.
subverting expectations is good but a good idea is necessary... just subverting isnt an idea. The only reason to subvert is if you actually have a better idea
I have to disagree. Reloaded was awesome too. But you could pinpoint the exact moment in it at which they should have said "we're going to dip out after this one".
It isn't 'subverting expectations' any more when it's literally the same thing you've done the last 1000 movies, and everyone sees it coming from years away..
Cross promotions between the film and music industries. They want to do with Lady Gaga what they had with Will Smith. The music promotes the songs and the songs promote the movie. Two bites of the cherry, so to speak.
More to the point, why they think Gaga is so good-looking that she can get a pass on dressing the part as the original quin with the original tight jester getup and expect some fanboys to buy merch or fangirls to comicon a basic bitch? Ye all the other stuff in the video the guy said is true but I just HATE the excessive grunge/basic remake of EVERYTHING! Gaga, if you're too good to play and look a part that makes original designers proud of their creation, if you're too uppity to do even do that, then go back to singing and stay there.
I think a sequel with him fully embodying the joker could’ve been great. But the director got himself in trouble with the elites with the first movie and so had to enact a humiliation ritual and destroy the character to get back in good graces.
The executives who thought such an expensive sequel was a good idea should be fired, while the director should be forced to return his fee for making an outright bomb, so that the studio can recover some of their lost money!!
Exactly. Executives would never put art over money. If they supported this was because they thought it would be a sure mega hit, because of the success of the first movie. Now that Joker 2 is a mega flop they must be furious
I’m going to disagree I very much doubt that Todd Phillips will be getting a job anytime soon after this deliberate sabotage of Joker 2. You don’t cost a studio 200 million dollars and walk away with no consequences.
Yeah you do. They get all their funding from places like Blackrock and Vanguard nowadays. And they just care about “the message” and propaganda and influencing society. They get their money from our wallets through taxes, buying up all the real estate, farmland and corporations. They don’t need revenue from their media pet projects. Look at the directors for Marvel, Amazon and Star Wars, they still have jobs and have destroyed entire franchises.
To be honest, I've always thought it was incredibly stupid (and a first World problem as well) when creators got upset because "the audience didn't understand their work the way they, the creators, THINK we, the audience, should understand it." The truth is that every work of art, once exposed to the world, ceases to be the property of the creator, takes on a life of its own and receives interpretations from the audience that often differ from those of the creator of the work (something that is natural, since different people have different perspectives). C'est la vie. Therefore, getting upset about this is whining and, in the case of people who want to indoctrinate the public, it also indicates a lack of character.
@@mywifesboyfriend5558 I don't think you understood what zubrycky said. It's not legal or financial property, though if you're American you might think those are the only things there are. He's talking about meaning, and the creator has 0 control over meaning when the work is out in the world. I do agree that the creator has his own meaning (Tolkien saying LotR was no allegory at all - and of course it was no allegory for Hitler and WW2, as it was created and fixed WAY before that, that's what we call overinterpretation), but that doesn't stop people from having their own interpretation, and this movie has failed before both critics and audiences, because it tried to message straight white men are pathetic losers, and that's simply not true.
Watching Lady Gaga and her character in this movie gives me the same vibes as to when i see John Lennon and Yoko Ono. The character didn't need to exist, and the sequel didn't need to be made, and now that it's been made, it should have at least been faithful to the original. I am not at all surprised that they really wanted to kill Joker and replace him with Harley Quinn, it's the oldest trick in the book in modern Hollywood: Replace good characters with awful women who don't deserve the spotlight. People came to see Joker, not his sidekick, and certainly not her stealing the IP, the Yoko Ono of modern movies.
They havent. They replaced him with " another" Joker. who is the guy who kills him to take his mantle. Some people imply the other joker a reference to Ledger Joker. to me its just implying is someone else who took the mantle Arthur abandons
@@yusukeelric You really think they were thinking of making a series based on the dude that killed him? No, girlbosses are the Hollywood thing, they would have continued the IP with Harley Quinn.
I was at the concert in Toronto when Yoko was in a bag on the ground screaming while the plastic Ono Band played. It was excruciating. She wanted John's audience sooooo bad. I never forgave him for inflicting her on us.
@@carmenmccauley585that's crazy! Thank you for sharing that. I disable or skip her tracks on Johns final two albums tbh. It's filler that grates on my ear 😑
Is this a failure? Cause it sure looked liked it achieved exactly what the ideologs is Hollywood wanted. Completely destroy the impact of the first film and from the downtrodden to not get any ideas.
I was 100% on board for a musical sequel with Lady Gaga. I guess I'm finally the target audience for this movie. But then I found out what it's about, and I'm not on board anymore. It's a god damn shame.
I was too until I saw leaks, and really got to see what was going on in the movie. They should have called the movie "Crust Busters" on account of having Arthur Fleck being gang raped by 4 fat officers. What we should have gotten was a movie with Arthur suffering an identity crisis while in Arkham, have his joker persona creating anarchy within the asylum, and Harley trying to pick his brain apart until she eventually joins him. Whatever we got was basically on par with a CW show.
This movie kind of reminds me of the movie Glass from M.Knight Shamalyn. They completely undid the hype built up from previous movies and ended on such downer note.
Folie a Deux is a psychological condition where an individual starts believing someone else's delusion. This is somewhat a plot piece to many Joker and Harley relationships where Dr Quinzel slowly becomes enthralled with the Joker and then takes on his behaviours and character traits. I think the director got Lady Gaga to share in his delusion in making a musical and to have her believe that would be good for her career. Gaga was obviously unhappy because both Phoenix and herself put in the effort but with the wrong genre, with the wrong storyline, for the wrong fan base it really didn't matter.
People are sick of cash grabs, the forced agendas and messaging. People are standing up against it by not parting with their hard earned cash. Its the only language these so called creators understand.
@@imsentinelprime9279 the first movie was just a well told origin story. No agenda. Just story. This movie has an agenda. The deconstruction of white men.
@@imsentinelprime9279 No, it doesn't "just suck". It 'sucks' in a specific way, as this and many other videos argued. So your nonpoint can get out of here already. It's actually the previous movie which had no agenda, because everybody just understands that it's bad if poor and mentally ill people get neglected, it's not an sjw point. So this Uno reverse card you are tryna use is dumb as hell.
First film was a well received origin story for a more grounded Joker. The sequel was an open goal and had the story been about the now hardened criminal mastermind corrupting his Arkham Asylum psychologist to do his bidding? It could have been a psychological thriller mentioned in the same breath as The Silence of the Lambs. Literally what any Batman fan would have expected, but nah... Can't have that in the current year, let's subvert expectations instead.
Lol, wut? Well received? In what universe? 90% of the people who actually go to movies, you know, regular people, HATED the first movie, and this far worse abomination? Everyone has their likes and dislikes, but this, this is not only not in the same galaxy as good, it's not even in the same multiverse. Even Thanos and Darkseid and Kang The Conquerer combined couldn't f things up this bad.😮😅
The exact moment is was announced the sequel was gonna be a musical....I KNEW is was the worst idea ever....then add to that trying to undo what the first film built with the character...it's like The Last Jedi all over again...lol. This film with it's plot and premise had ZERO chance of success.
As someone who might relate to Fleck's descent into madness... I can tell you for absolute certain that doubling down on the evil that created him in the first place is not going to teach guys like me the error of our ways. Instead, it will only solidify our view that there's only one way to deal with bullies. And that includes the bullies in Hollywood who think they can force us to abide their delusions.
This movie did exactly what 'they' wanted. It hurt the original and it turned off the audience for that original film. This film wanted to do those things because the original was hated by the 'left', the establishment, the industry. The director had to damage his own creation in order to be forgiven by the elite. I guess Lady Gaga was in on it too but its possible that the joke is on her as much as it is on the fans of the original film. Regardless, the director absolutely knew what he was doing.
hes not that smart I assure you. He thought for sure he could keep his "cool vibe" and turn the story into something unexpected and still win the leftoid approvals you mentioned, He didnt think for a minute the fans would reject his trash. He didnt phone it in, he really really tried. and failed. which makes it all the more hilarious to laugh at.
The left had no problem with this movie. People who oppress others and don't like the oppressed fighting back hated this movie. Actually hate is the wrong word. They were terrified of it. But fear and hate are two sides of the same coin.
What's really telling about this film is that my normie friends were raging about how bad this was. One friend who liked TLJ(which we get into arguments but still are close because we focus on what makes us similar.) said this was one of the worst films he's ever seen. My brother even hated this film and he's a normie. Also, the fact this movie did NOT have test screenings says a lot. They are double edged swords but in this case, a good test screening could have salvaged the ending. Reminds me of another film that didn't have test screening that had space wizards. ;) All in all, WB should be very concerned. This is seven box office bombs and Gunn's entire chance at rebooting DC now hangs in the balance.
Hollywood should learn from this, Star Wars, Marvel, Pixar, Indiana Jones, Willow, etc. that they can't just manufacture a success through brand/actor recognition. They need to actually make a good movie.
So glad to see this talentless record industry plant being slapped hard and humiliated. For years and years she polluted everything with her degenerate garbage - now's the payback time (hopefully)!
It's because their ideologies are so backwards and wrong that they inadvertently make great things when they do the opposite of what they think is Evil or Bad. so if they think something is bad, its good.
Hollywood people being out of touch with reality and trying to lecture the audience. Not unexpected at all. Even the critics not shielding though is telling of how much they need to recover some credibility, albeit too late for most.
This is essentially a "Last Jedi" subverting expectations treatment of a hit film. It should get a special Rian Johnson Award for ineptitude and failing to read the room.
Joker was the Easy Rider of 2019. It was a sign of the times movie that transcended any direct connection to comic book movies. It did not need a sequel and even a decent sequel might have diminished the original’s impact. I didn’t even love the original, but it was so timely and quite clever in how it subverted Batman’s heroic origin story for a victimhood narrative that leads to the birth of evil. Whether we knew it or not at the time, it definitively signaled the end of the superhero genre. Just like Easy Rider signaled the end of old Hollywood in 1969.
I was initially interested, even as a musical, because I assumed it would be about an actual Folie a deux, which is a submissive individual buying into a dominant individuals psychosis. Imagine musical numbers that play out an idealized version of things juxtaposed with the reality of the abusive nature of the Joker/Harley relationship.
@@Torgo1969Twisters is pretty solid, shockingly. Megalopolis, if you want an experience, gives you that too. Deadpool 3 is the best this year. That’s all I’ve seen this year.
Joaquin Phoenix, method actor. Lady Gaga, meat dress wearer. Apparently, they are equally capable actors in the eyes of the "modern audience". But not so much in the eyes of the actual audience.
Joaquin Phoenix has embodied the best joker and decided, fuck Jared Leto, I'm gonna take his spot too as the worst Joker. Now Jared Leto is just the mediocre joker.
Hey, man. Just wanted to give you a heads up that Fum is using oils to flavor the product. It might be a little less harmful than tar LOL, but it's definitely not something you want to put in your lungs. I feel like they market themselves as harmless, and that seems kinda messed up. Not sure if you were aware of that
I can't decide if this movie is an act of pure spite because the original defied the usual Hollywood narrative, or a botched attempt at retooling the first film to fit a wider audience and make even more money. Either way, it failed miserably.
I was expected so much after the end of Joker1 to see a sequel showing him embracing his new identity, and his rise to "power", and possibly first encounter with Batman... Phoenix could have done an amazing job had he been giving the right script.
$114 for a fake cigarette that states it's just Air? Yeah, if you see someone with one of these fUM things. Realize what kind of person they must be to fall for this. So sad, I hope this is parody.
@@Goropemax more like... oh yeah... women. Had many of them in my life. While deployed to South Korea, Japan, Thailand, Australia, spain.... so yeah..... women. Love me some women. 😁. That body count is super high.
This movie was about rubbing it on the audience, the people who "related with Arthur" the people who they claim are incel, mentally unstable **men** who'll start to **unleash chaos** after being inspired by Joker. The entire movie was a warning to what will happen to you if you went down the joker's path, a path no one is walking beside some crazy lunatic to begin with. There's no empathy for the mental agony of Arthur
Think about it. Arthur snapped because he was ridiculed and mocked by people who had zero compassion for him as a human being. And now these people including the director are treatring anyone who connected with the first film the same way Arthur was treated.
The Hollywood cesspool that makes these movies tell you how to think and behave, and also tell you who to vote for. They are not the example to listen to or follow.
"100 Trophies 🏆 for Best Actress is awarded to Lady Gaga for her excellent performance of Harley Quinn in 'Joker: Folie à Deux (as in Joker 2 - for those who cannot translate French to English)," says Audience Critic Milner Benedict III.
I feel like the first movie was truely made for the audience and the climate of the time. This sequel was the movie made for a few individuals, and what they really wanted to see. And didnt take any considerations for what the people wanted. Totally disregarded their bread and butter. They bit the hands that fed their sucess. Just Desserts, now eat cake.
The sequel was literally a no-brainer. A city in collapse, crime Aly and in need of Batman. It's so simple and would explain the popularity of the Batman. Only an activist wouldn't have seen this obvious sequel treatment.
no, batman is evil. his father was an asshole billionaire who made the city what it was due to his insane liberal policies being soft on crime and creating class divide.
@markcarpenter6020 Well, YT thinks I’m a spammer and no longer lets me reply to other replies directly (hence the non-working white tag), so it could be worse. :( The good news is I saw it before it disappeared and took a screenshot (RtGenetic Opera). Thanks!
Why was the first one so good? Were we ever supposed to believe the character in the first one was a person that could be Batman's nemesis? That's what made Ledger so great,..He was soo much more quick witted, intelligent, and savvy than this version ; (
Damien Walter loved it, and called it radical cinema, and wrote: "Many of the one-star ratings for Joker Folie Adieux are angry that Stephanie Germanotta isn't as hot as Margo Robie. Robbie's Harley Quinn is one of the all-time great sex fantasies up there with chain mail bikini Leia; super-villain as porn star. Stephanie Germanotta and her Lady Gaga Alter Ego laughs at these male sex fantasies about women; her Harley Quinn is a depiction of what the real women under the makeup of our hyper sexualized fantasies are actually like and nothing makes us angrier than having our fantasies shown up as cheap. We've been living on a diet of force-fed fantasy for 20 years or more: fantasies of muscular men in Spandex and hot babes fighting evil wearing only a swimsuit, fantasies of boy Wizards, Wars Among the Stars, Games of Thrones, post apocalypses and blue alien avatars computer-generated imagery made it possible to put our wildest fantasies on our screens and we've been gorging on fantasy ever since then along came Todd Phillips and Joaquin Phoenix to smuggle into a superhero franchise at the heart of our fantasies a nugget of pure anti-fantasy! The Joker movies aren't realism; sadly, the fate of the mentally ill in our society is sadder even than the life of Arthur Fleck. Instead, Joker and its sequel are stories about fantasy; how fantasy holds us in a powerful grip, and the cost of living in our fantasies, and like the collision of matter and antimatter, the collision of our fantasy-soaked culture with this anti-fantasy movie is explosive: Joker isn't a Joker movie! Gen Xers and Millennials who remember vertigo Comics will know what Joker is: the Vertigo Comics imprint was where DC let its best creators mess with its IP to remake Batman, Superman and the rest of the pantheon. Vertigo was formed after the success first of Alan Moore's Watchmen 1985, Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns 1986, and Alan Moore's The Killing Joke 1988. Moore, Miller, Grant, Morrison, Neil Gaiman, Warren Ellis, and a cast of writers under editor Burger rewrote the DC Pantheon and created new characters. Many of the best Vertigo-style comics deconstructed the fantasies of superhero comics into sophisticated anti-fantasies that confronted readers with what our fantasies really are. The second group of one-star reviews for The Joker movies are fanboys of Zack Snider enraged or just confused that the Joker doesn't continue the absurd power fantasies of his reign over DC. The first Joker movie was the cinematic equivalent of a Vertigo comic; it was Todd Phillips and Joaquin Phoenix rewriting The Joker archetype as an indie Art House homage to Scorsese's taxi driver with a superhero budget that just happens to be called Joker. It’s a movie about madness and civilization. Madness is the for false punishment of a false solution but by its own virtue it brings to light the real problem which can then be truly resolved. Madness and Civilization by Michelle Fuko is a history of how our society treats the insane. Fuko argues that madness and insanity are categories imposed by society on those at the bottom of society in an act we now commonly call othering. The power structures of civilization are predatory, Fuko's critique argues because they help us deny our own role in this predatory system; we accept a fictional narrative in which the damaged victims of the system are cast as insane. Arthur Fleck is the lowest victim of civilization: an orphan adopted and then abused; he has no status, so fantasizes being adored by a chat show audience; he is not loved so fantasizes a lover; he has no power, so fantasizes killing, which is a fantasy he then acts out. As Fuko argues, Arthur’s fantasies are a false solution that offer no help with the reality of his plight but calling the fantasies of the victim madness is also a false punishment. The first Joker movie is a carefully balanced dialectic between the forces of civilization and the victims of madness; it's deliberately uncertain whether Fleck is a victim to be pitied or a monster to be hated. Joker then goes a step further in its dialectic between madness and civilization Athur’s fantasies not only bring to light his real problems but begin to give Fleck real status and power as he adopts the fantasy persona of Joker that in the Joker sequel will also give him the fantasy of love as folie adieux dives deeper into the sick fantasies of our civilization. As Batman has become an ever-more hilarious parade of good actors putting on a silly costume and cashing a paycheck, Joker is a role that great actors actually want to play: Jack Nicholson's makeup smeared mafiosa, Mark Hamill's shrieking sociopath and of course Heath Ledger’s seminal turn in The Dark Knight, all laid the groundwork for Joaquin Phoenix, the greatest actor of our generation to make Joker into his kind of story. Phoenix is the face of the male victim; the little man broken by the world who hears the lyrics prison blues and thinks “that's me”. The Joker has become more and more the star of the Batman mythos as we've started to realize that billionaire industrialists with delusions of grandiosity might not be the heroes we're looking for (looking at you, Elon Muck) Batman has always been fighting not just crime but the criminally insane, and as we begin to deconstruct the fantasy of insanity used to other civilization's victims, Batman looks less like a hero standing against crime and more like a vigilante “hammer of justice” coming down on the weak and downtrodden and the Joker looks more and more like the rage, anger, violence and destruction of the downtrodden when they finally stand up! The third category of one-star reviews for The Joker movies are people who dismiss them as incel movies. You get the distinct impression these people haven't seen the movies but are simply repeating talking points from the many think pieces attacking the movies on this basis at a time of skyrocketing social inequality it must be comforting for some people to dismiss all the young men alienated from the system and stuck in low paid wage labor with the fantasy that they are all incels. “We have a perfect name for fantasy realized it's called nightmare.” --- Slavoj Zizek Arthur Fleck is finally allowed a moment of true heroism at the finale of Folie Adieux: Fleck's complex fantasies and his Joker persona have brought him the status and power he dreamed of, and Fleck can now see that his fantasies will bring him much much more. Fleck has encountered what the psychoanalyst Jack Lan called the symbolic order of civilization: that web of laws, institutions, status-structures and hierarchies that exist only symbolically by our communal agreement. Fleck has discovered that the symbolic order of civilization can be reshaped by his fantasy! His Joker persona strikes the symbolic order in all its weakest places and threatens to shatter it. Given a public platform at his own trial, Joker has the power to incite the revolution of the downtrodden masses that could bring the civilization of Gotham crashing down; but Fleck finds the moral courage to let go of Joker and the power his fantasy can grant him, and in that moment becomes a better human than most of those who sit in judgment over him. He admits: “It was all just a fantasy; there is no Joker.” but Arthur’s choice is also driven by the nightmare that awaits anyone unfortunate enough to actually realize their fantasy. In “the plague of fantasies” the philosopher Slavoj Zizek catalogues the nightmarish collaborative fantasy that is modern capitalist civilization. Arthur’s fantasies have manifested in what Zizek calls “The Impossible Gaze”: in the age of mass media we fantasize ourselves through the Gaze of a mediated audience: sports, reality-TV, chat shows. In becoming Joker, Arthur Fleck discovers that the crowd who cheer him turn out to be a crazed mob, the legal system that judges Joker is revealed to be just public theater, the media to be the prison and its guards. The reality of the “impossible gaze” he fantasized is a living nightmare, and the manic-pixie dream-girl that Arthur Fleck had always dreamed of finding turns out to be just another human playing out her own fantasy. She tells him: “We're not going away,Arthur; all we had was the fantasy, and you gave up.” Stephanie Germanotta might be the only actor who could go toe-to-toe with Joaquin Phoenix in the depiction of insanity and victimhood intertwined. Lady Gaga is a deconstruction of the male gaze, displaying all the symbols of the male sexual fantasy, then selectively amping them up to a repulsive absurdity. Germanotta’s Harley Quinn is a performative fantasy put on just for Arthur Fleck. When we first meet her the fantasy girl in the insane asylum is a constructed persona designed to seduce Joker the real woman behind the fantasy is by turns broken, manipulative, lost, powerful, genuinely insane, and coldly realistic. The reason men so easily accept simplified fantasies of femininity is because the real human behind them is always unknowably complex. Joker and its sequel are going to be two of the most hated superhero franchise movies for a long time to come. Audiences fat on our decades-long feast of CGI fantasies are never going to welcome the bitter taste of reality on our plate, but for anyone ready to think critically about the theme of fantasy itself, Joker and Folie Adieux are masterpieces of radical cinema and a timely warning that civilizations which cannot face the madness of our conjoined fantasies will be overwhelmed by them."
I enjoyed the first film. I never felt it needed another. Hollywood like to flog things to death so I imagine they are working on "Joker Folie a Trois, a quatre, a cinq....."
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was the whole thing ruined or was there a certain point in the film it gets ruined?
@@starc. Whole thing.
@@MidnightsEdge time saver thanks
Why do you not report on Animated DC Superheroes movies ? This year DC trilogy flopped. It not HBO app (sold on youtube et cetera), but a hand full of others are .
@@katarn848 Though there are a few exceptions, animation is generally outside our wheelhouse ... we'll certainly do an exception for Watchmen once part 2 is out, then we can see what else we can bring up in the process.
No one wanted a Joker movie where he's beaten, humiliated, gang graped and killed while Lady Gaga sings and prances around. Even though the first movie made a billion it apparently had the ''wrong audience''. This new movie seems to have course corrected to include all the demoralization propaganda we usually see in modern media.
Wow, great analysis! I loved the first movie, and was looking to see this one, but thought it was weird they put Lady Gaga in it. Thanks for saving me time and money!
Now they went from the “wrong audience“ to No audience.
You are correct. Phillips seems to have set out to deliberately make a "bad" film as kind of an apology to the media for making them angry with the original film.
The market for seeing Joaq fucked in the ass would've been much stronger, IF we were back in the late 90s and 2000s
its sickening
Audiences generally like a twist, but they rarely like a bait-and-switch perpetrated over the course of two movies.
Woke disney are notorious at the ole bait & switch.
All they had to do was copy John carpenter movies, use the escape movies, assualt on precinct 13, and for horror elements add they live and the thing.... make the gangs that he inspired do things in his name and have the joker treated like a idol when he appears, make him get noticeably crazier and end up destroying the coalition of gangs (but he now has his own group of believers)... make the whole film about him trying to get back at people he feels are against his "big plan", he gets two of the three hes after but the third doesn't exist...there aren't many seige films done from the villains pov
The audience wanted to see Joker grow as a character ... not Lady Gaga sing.
@@satyricon65the audience didn’t want to see anything hence why they didn’t show.
Kenobi, BOBF everytime they pull these bait-n-switches it is always met with complete rejection by majority audiences. When will Hollywood ever learn?
I cannot wait for the third Joker movie.
Joker: Ménage A Trois.
He has one of those in this film.
You just made my day. I can’t stop laughing at that 😂
Joker Face
Hahahahaha 😂
Don't give them any ideas!😅
I'm a woman, in a long-term relationship, who is into artsy subversive films or contrarily, into very girlie feel-good ones. I'm also about as left-wing as you can get. According to the moral pontificators such as Todd, I'm not someone who was supposed to enjoy the first Joker film. However, I absolutely loved the first Joker and I can't stand what they did with the second one. I never saw the first Joker as some glorification of incels. I saw it as a film about the inevitable social unrest that comes out of a cruel and dismissive society, and Arthur as the personification of the unrest. To me, the second film just destroys all of it and says, 'no, you will lick the boot, peasants'.
We have fundamentally different world views, but come to the same conclusion here. Especially the "you will pick the boot, peasants" part.
But I think the second movie goes even deeper. I think Todd Phillips took a twisted joy in humiliating and degrading Arthur Fleck. I got the feeling the audience was supposed to see the guards as the good guys and cheer for every bad thing that happens to Arthur. It's not just a lack of compassion or empathy, it's a profound disgust and hatred that is not healthy to have for any human being, real or fictional.
And that's not all. The first film was meant to be taken the same way. The only difference there is that the first film was open ended enough that everyone chose very different interpretations of Arthur Fleck than what Todd Phillips intended. The only reason the first film was so good was because it was subtle enough to interpret differently and the only reason it was a success was entirely accidental on Todd Phillips' part.
I don't have a problem with your interpretation of the first film. I'm someone whom it was supposed to radicalise, but that would involve leaving my mother's basement. 🤪 I haven't seen the second one, because these days, all mainstream entertainment needs to be pre-screened for overt messaging / propaganda by my UA-cam bubble. Joker 2 did not pass.
Lick the boot, 12 dollars please.
Omg stfu you pseudo intellectual, fake deep ass
I still am not sure that it's wise to blame phillips. I was always under the impression that he didn't want to make a sequel and it's possible that he just made the movie the studio wanted him to make after the first one for a paycheck or for pressure tearing the first movie down. Since this is what happens all the time with movies now a days I find it more likely the studio is to blame since there's a constant pattern. As for left wing there are plenty of left wing policies I'd agree with but the left have become so disgusting that I go against them at every turn out of spite and don't want to be associated with them in any way shape or form. I think most people are currently going that way since the mainstream which is currently left wing is authoritarian more then anything. They all want the boot licked but i still think we gotta give benefit of doubt to individuals within the system until they're proven to be the system and not the one that licked the authoritarian boot.
“The highest art of warfare is not to fight at all, but to subvert anything of value in the country of your enemy until such time that the perception of reality of your enemy is screwed up to such an extent that he does not perceive you as an enemy. You then can take your enemy without a single shot being fired.” Yuri Bezmenov, former Russian KGB agent.
What's hilarious about this qoute is the US has been doing this to it's own population long before the KGB existed.
US loves it's red Herrings.
why so serious?
Prob why we are winning against these woke idiot companies. Its so easy to just do nothing and not buy their slop
It's a fantastic quote but I can't seem to apply it to this situation. You're saying Phillips is an artful warrior who subversively devalued our Joker with this movie, so that... what?
Let's just start with who's the enemy and who's the warrior here... I say pretentious farte sniffer, big budget, lesson learned, but I'm no incel and don't always have the depth to understand at first glance.
Except that only works in the abstract. When you deconstruct structures and institutions they won’t trust the replacements. Then when the enemy invade the enemy will know.
The director has said he set out to mock and piss off fans of the first film. He got exactly what he wanted.
Where did he say this?
Where was this stated? It wouldn't surprise me, but I need the evidence.
@@xxTAARGUSnot hard to find chief
"You always gotta end on the best joke."
- Another Harley Quinn flop
It’s just odd the Warner executives went along with the joke
Jeremy Jahns said it best. If you took out the musical bits it would have been a more coherent movie and you would have reduced the runtime. Why did it have to have musical numbers in it? People know what Lady Gaga sounds like and most fans of the Joker don't want to hear her sing.
Because music can be used to control minds 🧐 and predowood is so evil, their intentions are all but benevolent. Gaga is used to control minds. She's a textbook plant by a certain Farm of clowns 😜 . Everything that's been happening this year, is related to November.
So either the director was completely on board because the details I'm hearing of what's happening to Arthur and Joaquin Phoenix sound like a humiliation ritual, and predowood are casting their nasty spells on the viewers. Or the director was forced under duress (again, that humiliation ritual) to make that sequel. What if he botched things just enough for plausible deniability so the spells couldn't take hold of the viewers, and still justify to his handlers that he did his best to deliver a competent production.
To quote one of the guys that worked on the original Little Mermaid: "If you can cut the music from the movie and it still makes sense you haven't done your job properly."
@@erickelly1323 a few of the e musical bits were ok. I think the audience would’ve been fine with 3 musical bits tops. They overdid it in every scene and it was tiresome. When Author told her to stop singing it was ironically funny because that’s how the audience felt.
Spielberg has talked about pushing the audiences too far. Said they’re willing to accept a few odd things as long as the overall film makes up for it.
I ain’t ever heard a single of her songs
Jeremy Jahns is a fucking shill though. Glad I stopped watching him like a decade ago or something. He doesn't have the balls to have a unique opinion on anything and just says the same shit all the youtube critics say in unison. Stuckmann being the other.
The film wasn't made for a sequel. The Director didn't want to do a sequel. The audience didn't want to watch a sequel. The studio execs only have themselves to blame. They threw good money away and further damaged the already damaged DC brand even further.
Yeah this was really meant to be an f u to the studios
i dont think "sequel" is the problem here.
good movies are good, bad movies are bad.
the movie certainly had space for a sequel.
Because Hollywood people are dumb these days and think one type of fame can be used in a totally different context, Ga Ga at best should be a cameo
I think a sequel could've been good if they had actually let the Joker be the Joker the second time around. But as it stands, we have two Joker movies and still no actual Joker action.
activists must have made that decision
It always had an uphill battle - ‘Joker’ was a film that everybody went to see, but nobody has watched since - it has little ‘replayability’, you saw it, you ‘enjoyed’ it, but it was a bit of a downer to be honest, so not many people actually wanted ‘more’.
Precisely how I feel 🎯
My girl and I saw it 3 times, twice in theaters. I wanted to see this one (even though I felt it completely unnecessary), but the energy felt off since the first trailer came out. I had a feeling this one would miss the mark, but I had no idea how abysmal its reception would really be.
It was good at showing how a child scorned by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth, but it was a bit… much, and honestly triggering for me, personally. It definitely has its worth and value, though.
@@HavianEla Oh no doubt about it, some of that shit was triggering af. I think I appreciated seeing that in a modern theatrical release, it used to be the norm in the 90s but things have changed with how stories are depicted these days (some for the better, but mostly for the worst imo). It was edgy and poignant in a way that transcended the movie itself; I haven’t carried a film’s theme and imagery in my heart after watching it since seeing the Matrix in theaters. That doesn’t mean it was the best film ever, I’ll never go THAT far, but it provided an escape from the cookie-cutter Marvelized comic book genre. My bar is so low, I just need a film to go against the grain and forgo traditional Hollywood tropes (like musicals and courtroom dramas) to be interesting lol
The first Joker film was VERY good, and yet, I only watched it once, and I did not clamor for a sequel. Thank God above that I did not watch the sequel. Smh
At this point Hollywood is like a broken clock, when they actually get a success is purely by accident. They don't understand what they got right, let alone what they got wrong.
lol @ they
A sequel was never needed or wanted. And a musical was the dumbest way to go.
if a sequel was in the works, it should've connected to Pattionson's Batman.. make tis a prequel Joker, or an "idea"..
@MrCarpediem6 that or they could have started a different run at it. Like a Batman (Peterson) and a Dark Night.
Make the sequel about a young guy like 18 to 21 he idolize Auther, you have their bond grow, and Auther is sick or dying. You tie in the Wayne's, and at the end, you have this guy kill the Wayne's behind the theater, as he blames them for his death, he gets captured goes to the nut house and we have a real joker later on.
Maybe they saw all the video essays about how "Joker's dancing in the first movie was skibidi rizz no cap frfr"
The musical was necessary to strip the movie of any remaining notion of masculinity
I think it was POSSIBLE to do a good sequel. Yes, even with musical numbers (the first had quite a few). Yes, even with Gaga. But it certainly would have required an entirely different script.
I’m just done. I’m sick of cinema being hijacked to “teach me a lesson”. RC hobby it is…. Magazine dry on phucks, Cobra out.
Reject media
Embrace model trains
@@shinobi-no-bueno Model kits of German Aircraft from World War Two,these hacks don't like the icongraphy.
And yet, somewhat ironically, the audiences is schooling the studios. They are just really slow learners, but when they keep bombing out financially the shareholders might start listening.
Hate to say by now it's most likely the only option not because I don't like RC or little vehicles but used to also have little space soldiers and such but they also came for them, guess the only option now are hobbies without lore or just historical ones wich they can't ruin in any way.
What lesson was taught here?
This movie could be considered a commentary on what Hollywood keeps doing to all of our heroes. Think about it, Luke Skywalker, Han Solo, Indiana Jones, The Doctor, Jean Luc Picard, Thor, and now Joker - all getting beaten down, gangraped and murdered because the wrong audience liked them.
But Joker is a villain
@@smithsmithson1610 Yes, and they made a Joker movie without batman. Twice
@@smithsmithson1610 not according to the people who made this movie.
Like the South Park episode when Lucas and Spielberg are doing a Deliverance to Indiana Jones.
Joker was never in any shape or form a fucking hero or someone to admire or emulate. 😂
Where on earth did that money go? They had few location shoots, small limited sets and very few VFX shots. It felt like the movie had a smaller budget and that's why it had to take place in the small prison and court room so long.
Im sure most of the money was given to that dumb btch that ruined the movie
I saw a lot of musicians, dunno how much they got paid.😂
Cultural initiatives are big time tax dodges
you don’t know about all the money laundering thst happens in the film industry?
They hated their idea of the original audience so bad they projected their vile fantasies on poor Arthur as the scapegoat to hurt their hearts through his pain. This film is a disgusting act of ill-hearted hate and malice. Only a monster would purposefully take that budget and turn a great film's sequel into a *&^%$# musical.
It's their world of illusion and they don't like films inspiring individuals into resisting them, so they took a giant dump on themselves and the fans just to prove a point and remind everyone the entertainment industry is theirs to control and program the public with.
@@TheXboxSux Exactly
Joker never needed and should never of had a sequel.
Disastrous sequel needing damage control for all involved.
I actually have alot more to say, i could talk for hours about all the different techniques but i have learned that all this knowledge is useless, i think this is inevitable and will happen again in 10 years once everyone forgets. It already happened hundreds of times at this point. We have to accept it as normal at this point
"Beyond that, there will be no further consequences from this flop". That's why writers and directors keep spitting in the face of the customer: they don't face consequences. Todd Phillips will continue to get high paid director roles, and the MSM will keep blaming the fans.
Exactly, they're still going to be rolling in cash, they'll keep pumping out movies and making money and nothing will ever happen to change it
Come out, Phillips! Explain yourself!
When does the media blame fans? What are you talking about???? Do you mean individual actors and producers are blaming fans? Movie studios are blaming fans?
hes going to hollywood jail dont kid yourself. they thought they had a bonfide hit and miscalced 100% everyone is projecting too much intelligence onto these losers in hollywood. they are out of touch and have no idea how to consistently make good films for a paying audience anymore. they definitely are trying to make money but they care about their stupid cringe politics too much and they cant understand why we wont buy their garbage products anymore.
until they shut down
Joker was open and shut. You weren't supposed to completely sympathise with Arthur Fleck but understand why the apathy and contempt shown towards him could cause him to do the things he does.
The people of Gotham essentially brought it on themselves.
Turning it into a musical and shoehorning Harley Quinn into it? That feels like spite.
Yes, the Joker is an evil person. The first movie showed how he got that way. In no way did I find Fleck a sympathetic character, he was disgusting. Many, if not all of us, suffer depredations and choose humanity over inhumanity.
Bingo. The point is to make the villain a 3D character one can understand, not to make the villain into the hero. Hollywood is not capable of even understanding this, let alone capitalizing on it.
I knew good and well who the Joker was. However I was able to sympathize with him to a certain point and then cut off sympathy completely once he reached a certain point, and then he just gets worse. I always thought that was the point of the film.
the producers of hollywood brought it on themselves
Loved the first. Not remotely interested in the second…
This movie was a masterpiece like Madam Web..... cocain is one hell of a drug
@@thomasb6283Lol I bet Madame Web is even better 😂
The biggest shock is the media not blaming "toxic fans" for the failure.
Hollywood is a joke. Just not funny.
Gaga: nah.
Pretentious French name: nah.
Musical: nah.
De-villaining & weakening a fictional uber-villain: nah.
At this point I'm also just sick of Harley Quinn in general.
@@KasumiKenshirou Absolutely, that too.
@@KasumiKenshirou Harley was great until she was shoehorned into everything.
Someone at Warner actually looked at all of those bullet points and said “Yeah….they’re gonna love this. THIS is what Batman and Joker fans have wanted…green light time, baby….green light….”
To be fair, the name is what is professionally used in psychology, criminal justice and psychiatry to destribe the phenomenon of madness of two (or more, can happen to whole families) so I actually quite liked it.
Pretty sure the "Gaga fan"/"Comic book fan" overlap is near 0.
No, there are plenty of short-haired fat chicks who wear glasses
She put out a great album and music videos a few years ago. The problem with this movie is it shows the only the downside. The Joker loves his life of crime. And is successful at it. There are criminals like that.
They were focused on the Gaga fan/emancipated Harley Quinn fan demographic.
I like both…
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Jared Leto: Miss me yet?
Me: Yes, but only for a month or two.
Nah. We've had bad Jokers before both of you.
we have been to harsh.
Apropos because Jared Leto is also a musician.
@@MrCarpediem6 Nah, Leto's Joker is still garbage
*4chan enters the chat* Oh man! Guys I LOOOVED Morbius. Let's run that shit again!
I ABSOLUTELY loved Joker. When I saw Lady Guh-Guh was in the sequel, I checked out
Lady Guy Guy?
Ever since the Matrix sequel's jettisoned everything thought provoking and interesting about the First film, in exchange for longer (and more boring) fight scenes, I have been aware of Hollywood's agenda to kill off anything that asks relevant questions about the real world. So I am not surprised to hear that the 2nd Joker movie has followed suit and, took a big dump on everything that made the 1st movie interesting. As Heath Ledger's Joker said "it's all part of the plan", to kill off what made cinema great in the last century and at times, this century too, so that the bigwigs' can take cinema further down the brain dead road they are travelling on. They want men to be women and vice versa, like in the offices at Disney and other big studios with lower IQ's to match!
That's fine since it's going to finish itself off.
@MJanovicable It all died a while ago for me, and honestly, I don't miss it, I am worried about what all this is doing to the minds of younger people growing up in this world though. This woke agenda will not be beaten, I think. They will carry on making shit while telling us it is sugar and the younger generation will accept it because it's the world they grew up in. An all female "Fight Club" is being made apparently, I heard Charlize Theron will be in it, and it disturbs me. Women fighting each other just seems alien to me, which is not sexism, it's just totally against what I believe women represent. What happened to the wholesome, nurturing mothers? They have been replaced with a man's outlook, and vice-versa. I heard a while ago that Jesse J's song "it's not about the money " was really about the system not being interested in making money from the entertainment industry, how it is just interested in spreading it's political message and although I thought it was a bit fetching then, it makes more sense now. I wish it would all die and go back to how things were, but to use another "Joker" quote, "there's no going back, they've changed things, forever".
Just the idea that they thought comicbook fans would want to see a superhero musical is unbelievable.
Yes, a simple questionnaire would have put that to bed.
I wasn’t opposed to a musical…if done right I think the audience can stomach it…maybe how like in the boys like musical numbers and animals were used to convey the pain and trauma Black noir had sustained at the hands of soldier boy.
Since Hollywood sang "Imagine" during lockdown, and the release of "Cats" people aren't remotely interested in singing being injected into their favorite film franchises.
The fan made Deadpool musical was fine because it was Deadpool and not official.
Making a Joker a musical was just pretentious.
I'm a comic book fan who read several stories including Joker and honestly I think he could be a perfect musical main character. Singing while torturing, killing while dancing, it seems natural to me.
I saw it and still don't understand how this thing cost 200 Millions to produce.... Deadpool 3 was made for a little less than that.
Well, this movie wasn't full of constant CGI (which is cheap) and had A LOT, (a lot. Did I mention it had a LOT) of musical numbers that were not only great musically (movie aside) and intricate (which takes a LOT of skilled musicians and stage helpers to produce).
The scenes that weren't dance scenes likely used real life sets (not a small front set and largely green screened background) costing more money.
If you watch the movie from a purely CINEMATIC way, story aside entirely, the film was shot, made, set, setup, and produced incredibly.
The stories content however, leaves much to be desired to say the least.
@@internetpig5354CGI is not cheap what the hell are you talking about
most of the budget went to pay Gaga and Phoenix
Together Phoenix gaga and the director got a combined 50 million
@@internetpig5354 CGI isn't cheap, it's one of the most expensive parts of making a movie.
Subverting expectations is a pathway some might consider unnatural
subverting expectations is good but a good idea is necessary... just subverting isnt an idea. The only reason to subvert is if you actually have a better idea
Is it possible NOT to learn this power?
@@willng1256Not from modern Hollywood
And the best part is how the expectations of those who subvert get subverted.
"What do you mean, it made no money?"
Subverting expectations is a pathway most consider to be unprofitable.
The Joker is like The Matrix, only one movie was ever made.
Even though it wasn't just about him. And, it wasn't Phoenix's. It's name is ' The Dark Knight '. Long live the king, RIP Ledger.😢
I have to disagree. Reloaded was awesome too. But you could pinpoint the exact moment in it at which they should have said "we're going to dip out after this one".
Indiana Jones only has 3 movies !
"Reloaded" was awesome. Without it, we couldn't play the Mr. Smith clone fight in the video game.
It isn't 'subverting expectations' any more when it's literally the same thing you've done the last 1000 movies, and everyone sees it coming from years away..
The only surprising thing is that they are surprised that people hate this movie
I’m surprised also
Why do they keep trying to make lady Gaga an actress?
she aight
They're going gaga
Because her music career is failing
Cross promotions between the film and music industries. They want to do with Lady Gaga what they had with Will Smith. The music promotes the songs and the songs promote the movie. Two bites of the cherry, so to speak.
More to the point, why they think Gaga is so good-looking that she can get a pass on dressing the part as the original quin with the original tight jester getup and expect some fanboys to buy merch or fangirls to comicon a basic bitch? Ye all the other stuff in the video the guy said is true but I just HATE the excessive grunge/basic remake of EVERYTHING!
Gaga, if you're too good to play and look a part that makes original designers proud of their creation, if you're too uppity to do even do that, then go back to singing and stay there.
This is probably the greatest example of an unnecessary sequel ever. JOKER didn't deserve this.
Its up there with Caddyshack 2 and Jaws 2.
I think a sequel with him fully embodying the joker could’ve been great. But the director got himself in trouble with the elites with the first movie and so had to enact a humiliation ritual and destroy the character to get back in good graces.
Didn't he made the same movie 3 times? The Hangover The Hangover 2 and The Hangover 3
A Sequel with a character arc like Breaking Bad with the Joker becoming - well.... the Joker, that could have been interesting.
@@Aireck174 don't forget The fast and the furious 4,4,5,6 ect LMFAO
I really don't understand why the hell Phoenix accepted to make a so terrible sequel....he lost my simpathy.
$ you would too don’t lie
ryan
it was his idea
The executives who thought such an expensive sequel was a good idea should be fired, while the director should be forced to return his fee for making an outright bomb, so that the studio can recover some of their lost money!!
Exactly. Executives would never put art over money. If they supported this was because they thought it would be a sure mega hit, because of the success of the first movie. Now that Joker 2 is a mega flop they must be furious
I’m fine with flop if this helps bring the end of Super hero movies.
It won't. So you'll have to live with the flop even without that.
@@Flaris I’m not a fan of Joker anyway.
For real though man, I can’t stand super hero movies
@@EarthsEdgeAD hopefully kaiju movies can be the next one
@@bulldogsbob Superhero movies aren't going anywhere. Stop whining and don't watch superhero movies if you don't like them.
I’m going to disagree I very much doubt that Todd Phillips will be getting a job anytime soon after this deliberate sabotage of Joker 2. You don’t cost a studio 200 million dollars and walk away with no consequences.
the studio execs watch the dailies, if they didnt it's on them...
Ask Andy Muschetti.
You don't make a studio lose $200M and get away with it.
He will be able to get indie films…he’s a talented director and maybe even a big budget film but he will never again have full creative control 🤔
Yeah you do. They get all their funding from places like Blackrock and Vanguard nowadays. And they just care about “the message” and propaganda and influencing society. They get their money from our wallets through taxes, buying up all the real estate, farmland and corporations. They don’t need revenue from their media pet projects. Look at the directors for Marvel, Amazon and Star Wars, they still have jobs and have destroyed entire franchises.
Ejem.. Kenedy... ejem...Kurtzman..ejem...Feige.
To be honest, I've always thought it was incredibly stupid (and a first World problem as well) when creators got upset because "the audience didn't understand their work the way they, the creators, THINK we, the audience, should understand it."
The truth is that every work of art, once exposed to the world, ceases to be the property of the creator, takes on a life of its own and receives interpretations from the audience that often differ from those of the creator of the work (something that is natural, since different people have different perspectives).
C'est la vie. Therefore, getting upset about this is whining and, in the case of people who want to indoctrinate the public, it also indicates a lack of character.
Agree but... 'first world problem'? You're playing into their demoralization agenda.
Yup, beautifully put. There is nothing else to say to that, really.
If audiences don't understand the filmmaker's intention, then the fault lies with the filmmaker.
Nah, the creation is still the property of the owner. That's why we have copyright laws.
That said, the other stuff is agreeable.
@@mywifesboyfriend5558 I don't think you understood what zubrycky said. It's not legal or financial property, though if you're American you might think those are the only things there are. He's talking about meaning, and the creator has 0 control over meaning when the work is out in the world. I do agree that the creator has his own meaning (Tolkien saying LotR was no allegory at all - and of course it was no allegory for Hitler and WW2, as it was created and fixed WAY before that, that's what we call overinterpretation), but that doesn't stop people from having their own interpretation, and this movie has failed before both critics and audiences, because it tried to message straight white men are pathetic losers, and that's simply not true.
Watching Lady Gaga and her character in this movie gives me the same vibes as to when i see John Lennon and Yoko Ono. The character didn't need to exist, and the sequel didn't need to be made, and now that it's been made, it should have at least been faithful to the original.
I am not at all surprised that they really wanted to kill Joker and replace him with Harley Quinn, it's the oldest trick in the book in modern Hollywood: Replace good characters with awful women who don't deserve the spotlight.
People came to see Joker, not his sidekick, and certainly not her stealing the IP, the Yoko Ono of modern movies.
They havent. They replaced him with " another" Joker. who is the guy who kills him to take his mantle. Some people imply the other joker a reference to Ledger Joker. to me its just implying is someone else who took the mantle Arthur abandons
@@yusukeelric You really think they were thinking of making a series based on the dude that killed him? No, girlbosses are the Hollywood thing, they would have continued the IP with Harley Quinn.
I was at the concert in Toronto when Yoko was in a bag on the ground screaming while the plastic Ono Band played. It was excruciating. She wanted John's audience sooooo bad. I never forgave him for inflicting her on us.
@@carmenmccauley585that's crazy! Thank you for sharing that. I disable or skip her tracks on Johns final two albums tbh. It's filler that grates on my ear 😑
Um about the sponsor. No. Anything that puts particulates into your lungs isn't great.
Is this a failure? Cause it sure looked liked it achieved exactly what the ideologs is Hollywood wanted.
Completely destroy the impact of the first film and from the downtrodden to not get any ideas.
It, much like hollywood, is a failure.
Agree I don't think they care about success, they get paid as the industry falls apart
Doesn't lessen the impact of the first film if you never watch the sequel and I have no intention of ever doing that.
No let them keep loosing money making woke crap. Someone will get it and take over.
I'm just gonna pretend this doesn't exist in canon. Hurray for fanfiction!
I was 100% on board for a musical sequel with Lady Gaga. I guess I'm finally the target audience for this movie. But then I found out what it's about, and I'm not on board anymore. It's a god damn shame.
That has to be the most moronic part; they got Lady Gaga in a musical, and she barely sings!
It was fantastic. You should go see it. It’s not for the comic book fan but you are the target audience. Go see it.
Don't waste your money nor your time
I was too until I saw leaks, and really got to see what was going on in the movie. They should have called the movie "Crust Busters" on account of having Arthur Fleck being gang raped by 4 fat officers. What we should have gotten was a movie with Arthur suffering an identity crisis while in Arkham, have his joker persona creating anarchy within the asylum, and Harley trying to pick his brain apart until she eventually joins him. Whatever we got was basically on par with a CW show.
This movie kind of reminds me of the movie Glass from M.Knight Shamalyn. They completely undid the hype built up from previous movies and ended on such downer note.
Yeah I agree. Glass was such a missed opportunity. It's a shame and basically the same situation with joker 2. A massive missed opportunity.
Folie a Deux is a psychological condition where an individual starts believing someone else's delusion. This is somewhat a plot piece to many Joker and Harley relationships where Dr Quinzel slowly becomes enthralled with the Joker and then takes on his behaviours and character traits. I think the director got Lady Gaga to share in his delusion in making a musical and to have her believe that would be good for her career. Gaga was obviously unhappy because both Phoenix and herself put in the effort but with the wrong genre, with the wrong storyline, for the wrong fan base it really didn't matter.
The first Joker movie was a stroke of luck for Tod Phillips
People are sick of cash grabs, the forced agendas and messaging.
People are standing up against it by not parting with their hard earned cash.
Its the only language these so called creators understand.
People spent 39 million dollars to sit down for this movie, thats not standing up against anything
@@theadl3681 people? Obviously not enough.
It has nothing to do with agenda, the first movie had a a lot of agenda, this movie just sucks that’s it.
@@imsentinelprime9279 the first movie was just a well told origin story. No agenda. Just story.
This movie has an agenda. The deconstruction of white men.
@@imsentinelprime9279 No, it doesn't "just suck". It 'sucks' in a specific way, as this and many other videos argued. So your nonpoint can get out of here already.
It's actually the previous movie which had no agenda, because everybody just understands that it's bad if poor and mentally ill people get neglected, it's not an sjw point.
So this Uno reverse card you are tryna use is dumb as hell.
First film was a well received origin story for a more grounded Joker. The sequel was an open goal and had the story been about the now hardened criminal mastermind corrupting his Arkham Asylum psychologist to do his bidding? It could have been a psychological thriller mentioned in the same breath as The Silence of the Lambs.
Literally what any Batman fan would have expected, but nah... Can't have that in the current year, let's subvert expectations instead.
@MundaneThingsBackwardsThere was a lot of character development Arthur could go through
Lol, wut? Well received? In what universe? 90% of the people who actually go to movies, you know, regular people, HATED the first movie, and this far worse abomination? Everyone has their likes and dislikes, but this, this is not only not in the same galaxy as good, it's not even in the same multiverse. Even Thanos and Darkseid and Kang The Conquerer combined couldn't f things up this bad.😮😅
Even when Hollywood suceeds against every effort to fail, they have to return to their success to take a steaming dump on it
The exact moment is was announced the sequel was gonna be a musical....I KNEW is was the worst idea ever....then add to that trying to undo what the first film built with the character...it's like The Last Jedi all over again...lol. This film with it's plot and premise had ZERO chance of success.
As someone who might relate to Fleck's descent into madness... I can tell you for absolute certain that doubling down on the evil that created him in the first place is not going to teach guys like me the error of our ways. Instead, it will only solidify our view that there's only one way to deal with bullies. And that includes the bullies in Hollywood who think they can force us to abide their delusions.
This movie did exactly what 'they' wanted. It hurt the original and it turned off the audience for that original film. This film wanted to do those things because the original was hated by the 'left', the establishment, the industry. The director had to damage his own creation in order to be forgiven by the elite. I guess Lady Gaga was in on it too but its possible that the joke is on her as much as it is on the fans of the original film. Regardless, the director absolutely knew what he was doing.
My thoughts exactly. He wants to stay in their good books.
Still better than Lee.
@@clancydowrcaPlus, he's a drug addict. What does that tell you?
hes not that smart I assure you. He thought for sure he could keep his "cool vibe" and turn the story into something unexpected and still win the leftoid approvals you mentioned, He didnt think for a minute the fans would reject his trash. He didnt phone it in, he really really tried. and failed. which makes it all the more hilarious to laugh at.
The left had no problem with this movie. People who oppress others and don't like the oppressed fighting back hated this movie.
Actually hate is the wrong word. They were terrified of it. But fear and hate are two sides of the same coin.
What's really telling about this film is that my normie friends were raging about how bad this was. One friend who liked TLJ(which we get into arguments but still are close because we focus on what makes us similar.) said this was one of the worst films he's ever seen. My brother even hated this film and he's a normie. Also, the fact this movie did NOT have test screenings says a lot. They are double edged swords but in this case, a good test screening could have salvaged the ending. Reminds me of another film that didn't have test screening that had space wizards. ;) All in all, WB should be very concerned. This is seven box office bombs and Gunn's entire chance at rebooting DC now hangs in the balance.
I am not even interested in Gunn's DC reboot. I wonder how many people feel that way too.
Gunn is a hack. He's so near hit and miss the best you could hope for is that wasnt terrible
I said it on the playground in the 90s and I stand by it now, DC sucks!
DC reboot was DOA before it was announced
Hollywood should learn from this, Star Wars, Marvel, Pixar, Indiana Jones, Willow, etc. that they can't just manufacture a success through brand/actor recognition. They need to actually make a good movie.
Haven't seen it but I'm thinking The Penguin has more heart in one episode than this whole movie
I went three times to watch The Joker, for all I know I watched the whole trilogy, no need for any other sequel.
Joker 2 is like a part 2 of 1984 in which we are supposed to take the side of Big Brother and gloat about the destruction of Winston Smith.
Lady psycho - Boo hoo. You mean people don't want to pay to watch me sing on screen for a couple hours?
So glad to see this talentless record industry plant being slapped hard and humiliated. For years and years she polluted everything with her degenerate garbage - now's the payback time (hopefully)!
"Subverting audience expectations" is code for "I have no creative ideas left."
I personally think this movie is enough to disregard everything else Todd Phillips has done and shun him from WB permanently.
I was going to watch this today until I saw this. Thank you for saving my time. I watched Wild Robot instead, and that movie was superb.
I will never understand how Phillips can *MAKE* the first Joker movie and so completely miss the point.
He couldn´t copy paste Taxi Driver 2 and The King of Comedy 2 into Joker 2, because these movies don´t exist.
It's because their ideologies are so backwards and wrong that they inadvertently make great things when they do the opposite of what they think is Evil or Bad. so if they think something is bad, its good.
@@HamguyBaconSo Joker 1 success was probably accidental
A classic case of a director and actor given a blank cheque and no oversight huffing their own farts and we see the results..
Hollywood people being out of touch with reality and trying to lecture the audience. Not unexpected at all.
Even the critics not shielding though is telling of how much they need to recover some credibility, albeit too late for most.
Are Denis V. and Terry Matalas the only writer/directors who understand how to successfully build on canon and respect the fan base?
Boycott all Hollywood trash!!
This is essentially a "Last Jedi" subverting expectations treatment of a hit film. It should get a special Rian Johnson Award for ineptitude and failing to read the room.
Joker was the Easy Rider of 2019. It was a sign of the times movie that transcended any direct connection to comic book movies. It did not need a sequel and even a decent sequel might have diminished the original’s impact. I didn’t even love the original, but it was so timely and quite clever in how it subverted Batman’s heroic origin story for a victimhood narrative that leads to the birth of evil. Whether we knew it or not at the time, it definitively signaled the end of the superhero genre. Just like Easy Rider signaled the end of old Hollywood in 1969.
I was initially interested, even as a musical, because I assumed it would be about an actual Folie a deux, which is a submissive individual buying into a dominant individuals psychosis. Imagine musical numbers that play out an idealized version of things juxtaposed with the reality of the abusive nature of the Joker/Harley relationship.
The director hiding is likely a pr stunt. Probably going to blame "overly critical" fans
It's weird when companies/directors tell fans what they want, then are surprised when fans aren't interested in their product.
Wish there was something in theaters I’d be interested in seeing. Not into musicals or subversive directors.
Go Bowling instead!
@@Torgo1969 I keep busy, just miss certain things I use to do on the regular.
@@noneed4me2n7 Fair enough. The only films I've seen in the last 6 years have been Joker and Alita.
@@Torgo1969Twisters is pretty solid, shockingly. Megalopolis, if you want an experience, gives you that too. Deadpool 3 is the best this year. That’s all I’ve seen this year.
Love lies bleeding was amazing!
Isn't Harley supposed to be hot in the comics? Who made the brilliant decision to cast an actress even less attractive than the Joker himself?
Women can't be attractive in modern media.
Daaaayumm
Even more distracting when the most recent live action version was from arguably the most beautiful actress in current business.
The decision came from the same powers and ideology that mandate man jaws in female video game characters.
Joaquin Phoenix, method actor.
Lady Gaga, meat dress wearer.
Apparently, they are equally capable actors in the eyes of the "modern audience".
But not so much in the eyes of the actual audience.
Joaquin Phoenix has embodied the best joker and decided, fuck Jared Leto, I'm gonna take his spot too as the worst Joker. Now Jared Leto is just the mediocre joker.
Sorry, I don't think anyone can take that title away from Heath Ledger.
And to think that He played Kenai in "Brother Bear" someone who wanted to proof what being *true man* means... SHAME.
Hey, man. Just wanted to give you a heads up that Fum is using oils to flavor the product. It might be a little less harmful than tar LOL, but it's definitely not something you want to put in your lungs. I feel like they market themselves as harmless, and that seems kinda messed up. Not sure if you were aware of that
Anything Lady Gaga is in is a very hard pass for me.
Honestly I didn't even watch the trailer once I heard lady gaga was in it
I can't decide if this movie is an act of pure spite because the original defied the usual Hollywood narrative, or a botched attempt at retooling the first film to fit a wider audience and make even more money. Either way, it failed miserably.
It really feels like many people in the modern entertainment industry doesn’t want my money.
Demoralizing us and keeping our imaginations in check, seems to be more valuable than money to them.
Good analogy
If you like musicals you probably won’t like it. If you like comic book movies you DEFINITELY won’t like it 😂
How did anyone think this movie was a good idea?
"Fum is backed by doctors in the US"
How nice, just like ciggies were for decades.
What are you talking about? i fumed the same füm my doctor fume.
Backed financially probably
I was expected so much after the end of Joker1 to see a sequel showing him embracing his new identity, and his rise to "power", and possibly first encounter with Batman... Phoenix could have done an amazing job had he been giving the right script.
Phoenix said he got the idea for Joker 2 from a dream. It was his idea.
$114 for a fake cigarette that states it's just Air? Yeah, if you see someone with one of these fUM things. Realize what kind of person they must be to fall for this. So sad, I hope this is parody.
Sucking on a tea bag... Let's market that!
im glad someone else said it, my vape cost me way less, been vaping for 10+ years no hospital ever
It is unfortunate that in today's world, A successful film is an accident, a movie that does not conform to the modern Hollywood narrative.
Loved the first movie. The sequel? I'll never watch it.
I canceled my tickets and got a refund. No to musicals or lady gaga. Having her is like having a brie larson in a project.
Oh no! Women!
@@Goropemax more like... oh yeah... women. Had many of them in my life. While deployed to South Korea, Japan, Thailand, Australia, spain.... so yeah..... women. Love me some women. 😁. That body count is super high.
@@GoropemaxOh no! Simp!
For all I care, Lady Gaga is not a bad actress. She's not the issue in Joker 2, the script is above all else.
Lady Gaga is horrible
This movie was about rubbing it on the audience, the people who "related with Arthur" the people who they claim are incel, mentally unstable **men** who'll start to **unleash chaos** after being inspired by Joker.
The entire movie was a warning to what will happen to you if you went down the joker's path, a path no one is walking beside some crazy lunatic to begin with. There's no empathy for the mental agony of Arthur
And for that it was boring and downright offensive.
@@Bomberman66Hellif you’re offended at a movie i think you may be proving the directors point..
Can't expect people to pay for the propaganda that scolds them.
Hopefully the financial consequences mount up sufficiently at some point.
@@alidemee8161 Bot comment
Think about it. Arthur snapped because he was ridiculed and mocked by people who had zero compassion for him as a human being. And now these people including the director are treatring anyone who connected with the first film the same way Arthur was treated.
The Hollywood cesspool that makes these movies tell you how to think and behave, and also tell you who to vote for. They are not the example to listen to or follow.
"100 Trophies 🏆 for Best Actress is awarded to Lady Gaga for her excellent performance of Harley Quinn in 'Joker: Folie à Deux (as in Joker 2 - for those who cannot translate French to English)," says Audience Critic Milner Benedict III.
I feel like the first movie was truely made for the audience and the climate of the time. This sequel was the movie made for a few individuals, and what they really wanted to see. And didnt take any considerations for what the people wanted. Totally disregarded their bread and butter. They bit the hands that fed their sucess. Just Desserts, now eat cake.
The sequel was literally a no-brainer.
A city in collapse, crime Aly and in need of Batman. It's so simple and would explain the popularity of the Batman.
Only an activist wouldn't have seen this obvious sequel treatment.
no, batman is evil. his father was an asshole billionaire who made the city what it was due to his insane liberal policies being soft on crime and creating class divide.
Here’s the thing: I **AM** into musicals and I loved Joker yet I didn’t want to touch it once I saw it featured Lady Gaga. Ugh. No thanks.
If you like musicals check out repo the genetic opera.
If you like musicals check out repo the genetic opera. It's a favorite of mine.
She's one of the few good things in the movie btw...
@@emmettturner9452 lol I keep trying to recommend a musical to you but you tube yeets it every time.
@markcarpenter6020 Well, YT thinks I’m a spammer and no longer lets me reply to other replies directly (hence the non-working white tag), so it could be worse. :( The good news is I saw it before it disappeared and took a screenshot (RtGenetic Opera). Thanks!
Its not often that there is such consensus on anything in this world. This movie must be seriously horrible.
Can we all just pretend the 2nd film never happened?
Why was the first one so good?
Were we ever supposed to believe the character in the first one was a person that could be Batman's nemesis?
That's what made Ledger so great,..He was soo much more quick witted, intelligent, and savvy than this version ; (
Can’t call people racist with this one.
The disaster is so complete that I'd almost swear he did it on purpose, maybe with Joaquin's cooperation. 🤣
Damien Walter loved it, and called it radical cinema, and wrote: "Many of the one-star ratings for Joker
Folie Adieux are angry that Stephanie
Germanotta isn't as hot as Margo Robie.
Robbie's Harley Quinn is one of the
all-time great sex fantasies up there
with chain mail bikini Leia; super-villain as porn star. Stephanie Germanotta and
her Lady Gaga Alter Ego laughs at these
male sex fantasies about women; her
Harley Quinn is a depiction of what the
real women under the makeup of our hyper
sexualized fantasies are actually like
and nothing makes us angrier than having
our fantasies shown up as
cheap. We've been living on a diet of
force-fed fantasy for 20 years or more:
fantasies of muscular men in Spandex and
hot babes fighting evil wearing only a
swimsuit, fantasies of boy Wizards, Wars
Among the Stars, Games of Thrones, post
apocalypses and blue alien avatars
computer-generated imagery made it
possible to put our wildest fantasies on
our screens and we've been gorging on
fantasy ever since then along came Todd
Phillips and Joaquin Phoenix to smuggle
into a superhero franchise at the heart
of our fantasies a nugget of pure anti-fantasy! The Joker movies aren't realism;
sadly, the fate of the mentally ill in
our society is sadder even than the life
of Arthur Fleck. Instead, Joker and its
sequel are stories about fantasy; how
fantasy holds us in a powerful grip, and
the cost of living in our fantasies, and
like the collision of matter and
antimatter, the collision of our fantasy-soaked culture with this anti-fantasy
movie is explosive: Joker isn't a Joker
movie! Gen Xers and Millennials who
remember vertigo Comics will know what
Joker is: the Vertigo Comics imprint was
where DC let its best creators mess with
its IP to remake Batman, Superman and
the rest of the pantheon. Vertigo was
formed after the success first of Alan
Moore's Watchmen 1985, Frank Miller's The
Dark Knight Returns 1986, and Alan
Moore's The Killing Joke 1988. Moore,
Miller, Grant, Morrison, Neil Gaiman,
Warren Ellis, and a cast of writers
under editor Burger rewrote the DC
Pantheon and created new characters. Many
of the best Vertigo-style comics
deconstructed the fantasies of superhero
comics into sophisticated anti-fantasies
that confronted readers with what our
fantasies really
are. The second group of one-star reviews
for The Joker movies are fanboys of Zack
Snider enraged or just confused that the
Joker doesn't continue the absurd power
fantasies of his reign over DC. The first
Joker movie was the cinematic equivalent
of a Vertigo comic; it was Todd Phillips
and Joaquin Phoenix rewriting The Joker
archetype as an indie Art House homage
to Scorsese's taxi driver with a superhero
budget that just happens to be called
Joker. It’s a movie about madness and
civilization. Madness is the for false
punishment of a false solution but by
its own virtue it brings to light the
real problem which can then be truly
resolved. Madness and Civilization by
Michelle Fuko is a history of how our
society treats the insane. Fuko argues
that madness and insanity are categories
imposed by society on those at the
bottom of society in an act we now
commonly call othering. The power
structures of civilization are predatory,
Fuko's critique argues because they help
us deny our own role in this predatory
system; we accept a fictional narrative
in which the damaged victims of the
system are cast as insane. Arthur Fleck is
the lowest victim of civilization: an
orphan adopted and then abused; he has no
status, so fantasizes being adored by a
chat show audience; he is not loved so
fantasizes a lover; he has no power, so
fantasizes killing, which is a fantasy he then
acts out. As Fuko argues, Arthur’s
fantasies are a false solution that
offer no help with the reality of his
plight but calling the fantasies of the
victim madness is also a false
punishment. The first Joker movie is a
carefully balanced dialectic between the
forces of civilization and the victims
of madness; it's deliberately uncertain
whether Fleck is a victim to be pitied or
a monster to be hated. Joker then goes a
step further in its dialectic between
madness and civilization Athur’s fantasies
not only bring to light his real
problems but begin to give Fleck real
status and power as he adopts the
fantasy persona of Joker that in the
Joker sequel will also give him the
fantasy of love as folie adieux dives
deeper into the sick fantasies of our
civilization. As Batman has become an
ever-more hilarious parade of good
actors putting on a silly costume
and cashing a paycheck, Joker is
a role that great actors actually want to
play: Jack Nicholson's makeup smeared
mafiosa, Mark Hamill's shrieking sociopath
and of course Heath Ledger’s seminal turn
in The Dark Knight, all laid the
groundwork for Joaquin Phoenix, the
greatest actor of our generation to make
Joker into his kind of story. Phoenix is
the face of the male victim; the little
man broken by the world who hears the
lyrics prison blues and
thinks “that's me”. The Joker has become
more and more the star of the Batman
mythos as we've started to realize that
billionaire industrialists with
delusions of grandiosity might not be
the heroes we're looking for (looking at you, Elon Muck) Batman has
always been fighting not just crime but
the criminally insane, and as we begin to
deconstruct the fantasy of insanity used
to other civilization's victims, Batman
looks less like a hero standing against
crime and more like a vigilante “hammer
of justice” coming down on the weak and
downtrodden and the Joker looks more and
more like the rage, anger, violence and
destruction of the downtrodden when they
finally stand up! The third category of
one-star reviews for The Joker movies are
people who dismiss them as incel movies.
You get the distinct impression these
people haven't seen the movies but are
simply repeating talking points from the
many think pieces attacking the movies
on this basis at a time of skyrocketing
social inequality it must be comforting
for some people to dismiss all the young
men alienated from the system and stuck
in low paid wage labor with the fantasy
that they are all incels.
“We have a perfect name for fantasy
realized it's called nightmare.” --- Slavoj Zizek
Arthur Fleck is finally allowed a moment of
true heroism at the finale of Folie Adieux:
Fleck's complex fantasies and his Joker
persona have brought him the status and
power he dreamed of, and Fleck can now
see that his fantasies will bring him
much much more. Fleck has encountered
what the psychoanalyst Jack Lan called
the symbolic order of civilization: that
web of laws, institutions, status-structures and hierarchies that exist only symbolically by our communal agreement. Fleck has discovered that the symbolic order of civilization can
be reshaped by his fantasy! His Joker
persona strikes the symbolic order in
all its weakest places and threatens to
shatter it. Given a public platform at
his own trial, Joker has the power to
incite the revolution of the downtrodden
masses that could bring the civilization
of Gotham crashing down; but Fleck finds
the moral courage to let go of Joker and
the power his fantasy can grant him, and
in that moment becomes a better human
than most of those who sit in judgment
over him. He admits: “It was all just a
fantasy; there is no Joker.” but Arthur’s choice is also driven by the nightmare that awaits anyone unfortunate enough to actually realize their fantasy. In “the plague of fantasies” the
philosopher Slavoj Zizek catalogues the
nightmarish collaborative fantasy that
is modern capitalist civilization. Arthur’s fantasies have manifested in what Zizek
calls “The Impossible Gaze”: in the age of
mass media we fantasize ourselves
through the Gaze of a mediated audience:
sports, reality-TV, chat shows. In becoming
Joker, Arthur Fleck discovers that the crowd
who cheer him turn out to be a crazed
mob, the legal system that judges Joker
is revealed to be just public theater,
the media to be the prison and its guards. The
reality of the “impossible gaze” he
fantasized is a living nightmare, and the
manic-pixie dream-girl that Arthur Fleck
had always dreamed of finding turns out
to be just another human playing out her
own fantasy. She tells him: “We're not going away,Arthur; all we had was the fantasy, and
you gave up.” Stephanie Germanotta might be the only actor who could go toe-to-toe with
Joaquin Phoenix in the depiction of
insanity and victimhood intertwined. Lady
Gaga is a deconstruction of the male
gaze, displaying all the symbols of the male
sexual fantasy, then selectively amping
them up to a repulsive absurdity. Germanotta’s Harley Quinn is a performative
fantasy put on just for Arthur Fleck. When we first meet her the fantasy girl in the insane asylum is a constructed persona designed to seduce Joker the real woman behind the fantasy is by turns broken, manipulative, lost,
powerful, genuinely insane, and coldly
realistic. The reason men so easily
accept simplified fantasies of
femininity is because the real human
behind them is always unknowably complex.
Joker and its sequel are going to be two of the most hated superhero franchise movies for a long time to come. Audiences fat on our
decades-long feast of CGI fantasies are
never going to welcome the bitter taste
of reality on our plate, but for anyone
ready to think critically about the
theme of fantasy itself, Joker and Folie
Adieux are masterpieces of radical cinema
and a timely warning that civilizations
which cannot face the madness of our
conjoined fantasies will be overwhelmed
by them."
It's already made more money at the box office than Transformers One, that just makes me sad.
I enjoyed the first film. I never felt it needed another. Hollywood like to flog things to death so I imagine they are working on "Joker Folie a Trois, a quatre, a cinq....."
I’m going to buy a FUM tomorrow, thanks to you ad. I’m going to a shop to get it though, I wish you could get credit for that.