As some have already commented on, there needs to be one singular app and/or a standardization of digital infrastructure for EV charging. Why it’s not standard practice to simply swipe a credit card to start charging in a similar fashion to gas stations is absolutely mind blowing. That factor is just as important as range/car specs for facilitating adoption.
A BIG issue with level 2 charging at 240v is the quality of the wall reciptical. Some are poor quality or not rated for continuous use. I believe it is best to hard wire the charger to the circuit.
The wall receptacle, installed by an electrician, melted in my detached garage. It was a Leviton 14/50, which can be found at a home hardware store for about ~$20. From what I understand, the constant heating and cooling down of the screws caused it to loosen and short. I only noticed when our Bolt EV stopped charging the next morning. The reason I decided against the hardwire version of the was portability, if we decided to move. I do see some receptacles are now putting in their description about ev charging.
The type of receptacle absolutely matters. Does Leviton at Home Depot is not up to the task, they do and will melt down! search for Hubbell or Bryant model of 14-50 receptacles, they are substantially more heavy duty for the demand of an EV
The apps requirement needs to be eliminated entirely if you want 'normal' people to adopt EVs. Can you imagine having to download an app and give all your info to BP, Citgo, Exxon, etc just to plug in and get an error message or charging so slow you have to leave and start the process over again at another station. That inconvenience is enough to keep people in an ICE vs EV or PHEV.
Most of the charging locations I've seen have a credit card reader and no app is required. While the app absolutely collects a users information the benefit to said user is meant to be convenience either in 1) not having to pull a credit card out 2) providing discounts with app use or membership tiers and 3) allowing the user to track their charging session to name a few. -Travis
Nice basic overview. Thanks! I am a new non-Tesla EV owner who wants to get set up for the occasional road trip. I think i should probably get the apps (and accounts?) for Electrify America and EvGo. And I'll do some research on likely routes to see if there are others to set up. On a route where i have many options, I think I'll want to investigate pricing. Would appreciate a follow-on video covering the complicated world of non-Tesla road tripping.
The great thing about most of this is that the majority of people /do not need to know it/ to successfully own an EV. Level 1 is great for almost anyone. Just plug into a wall outlet at night. Done it plenty. Level 2 is nice but not necessary for most, and “just call an electrician” is the best advice I’d give to anyone who wants to go that route. Put one in two homes myself, but it’s a luxury and not a mandatory thing. And DCFC “Level 3” is what most people imagine but it’s actually super niche and rare to need it - and many EV cars are getting much better at long routes that include charging. Most EV stations don’t require an app today. Some gas stations have discount apps now, so it’s not unheard of or weird to use apps. Plus, tons of EV cars come with some amount of free or prepaid pass to incentivize learning how to use the app.
I'm not sure I would categorize Level 2 as a luxury but you're right that most folks likely won't use Level 3 (DCFC) anywhere near as much as they think they will. -Travis
This is FANTASTIC. Saving this for reference, and to send to everyone who says "I cant have an EV because I cant install a charger in my garage". Question! Is it best to leave a car on a charger, or unplug once it's full? Thank you!
"Best" is dependant on what you're trying to achieve but I would say it's easiest to leave a vehicle plugged in at all times and even if that ends up being at 100% you're not going to be causing catastrophic harm to the battery. -Travis
This is one of the best clear and simple explanations of EV charging Travis, thank you. IMO this should also be posted on the ABG channel as it feels more geared towards that audience but great job nonetheless!
Absolutely, there are just some significant pieces to work out. The technology already exists but at this point I don't think anything would be moving forward unless it had universal adoption amongst manufacturers. I wouldn't have said the same thing a few years ago but with the Tesla/NACS/J3400 development folks want every EV to be able to charge where every other EV can. -Travis
I think you missed one important fact. The EVSE isn't just limited by the circuit it's plugged into, it is also limited by the capability of the EVSE itself. Just because you have a 60 amp circuit available for hardwiring, doesn't mean the EVSE can support 48 amp draw. Many of the EVSE that have either the NEMA 14-50 or 6-50 plug, which can safely draw 40 amps from a 50 amp breaker often max out as 32 amp draws. Then throw in the EVSE that can be set to draw less than their maximum capability for those that don't want to tax their wiring or electric bill. Our hardwired EVSE is connected to a 60 amp circuit, but we've set the internal switches to limit down to a maximum of 32 amps so we better match the output of our solar which the EVSE can draw over production from.
You're right that the EVSE itself plays a big part in this equation but I plan to cover that more when I get my EVSE installed and break down further what that process looks like. -Travis
so if you live in a town-home like community with no chargers you shouldn't buy it unless you want to run a long electrical cord from your home and I am sure kids wont mess with it or burglars wont notice your window is open to run the cord from your house
If you don't have reliable charging at home (Level 1 may be enough for many) than I can't recommend buying an EV or PHEV. The only exception might be if you have VERY reliable charging at work. -Travis
That's a common sentiment but one that I think not only over simplifies the subject but also leads people to the wrong conclusion. The use case for a phone and vehicle are very different as is the effort to charge/keep them charged; a vehicle is a lot easier. -Travis
But it IS the same as with your phone. You plug in somewhere and it charges---as long as you don't care how fast it charges, that's all. But if you do care, you need to know which fast-charging standard your phone supports and how much power the USB socket you plug into can supply. There's everything out there between half a Watt and 100 Watts, different voltages from 5V to 20V, QC, QC3, QC4, USB-PD, Android/Apple 2A unlocks, and so on. EV charging is outright simple in comparison.
@@EVBuyersGuideI strongly disagree with that. It encourages people to do things like calling a 150 kW charger a level 4 and a 350 kW charger a level 5. It does not add clarity. I’ve seen car dealerships call 25 kW DCFCs a “level 2.5” charger.
Sort of. Level 1, 2 and 3 were originally meant to describe the power draw. Level 1 = 1 phase, or 120v, Level 2 = 240v and Level 3 was supposed to be for commercial 3 phase electrical which is 480v all AC. Most DC Fast Chargers actually pull from 3 phase sources, but then convert the AC to DC before passing on to the car. So while the A/C source is 3 phase aka Level 3, the actual output to the vehicle is DC.
As long as things are standardized I don't think calling 150kw and 350kw different levels would be a problem. We call gasoline regular and premium; most people have no idea what the numbers really mean. Plus a 150kw charger doesn't always net the vehicle 150kw so there's already room for misunderstanding. Don't get me wrong, I get that there's a wide range in Level 2 charging and Level 3 (DCFC) charging and I personaliy want to know the numbers but I think I'm in the minority on that one. -Travis
Travis, I hope you or Alex start to do vampire/phantom drain testing of the EVs that are tested. Like the Rivian phantom drain testing, that Alex posted about in the past. It's something a lot of potential EV owners would be interested in. Which should increase viewership and retention. Good luck in figuring out how to best incorporate it. Nice EV charging overview. But wish you would have talked at least about 19.8 kW level 2 AC charging, which is an option for some EVs, such as a properly configured Ford Lightning. And even bi-directional charging which the aforementioned Lightning offers. And 20 to 50kW DC charging, which is just now coming to the Home Market with bidirectional charging. But I guess you consider these more advanced charging options? Travis good luck with this channel. And I will try not to be too pedantic, because I notice you already have too much of that type of feedback. lol
I get 9.2kW output on a 40a 240v charger and I suspect the voltage has dropped some from the 55’ of 6g copper wire I put in to get out to the detached garage.
Higher charging power, greater internal polarization, quicker capacity decay. This is dead simple battery chemistry, so don’t buy used EV unless you’re familiar with its charging history 😂
The nice thing about an EV is that you'll be able to make a pretty educated guess about the battery health based on the range available. Every vehicle is set up a little differently but if the range readout is accurate you can infer if it's healthy or not and that's something you can't do with an internal combustion engine unless you start taking it apart. I would be more comfortable buying a used EV because of this. -Travis
With an electric future looming ahead every vehicle operator will need to have a basic understanding of electricity Without knowing Voltage, Amperage and Power, it’s not easy to grasp the concept of ev charging and power usage Most people will plug in at home and only keep track of battery percentage and that’s fine until they are low on charge far away from home and don’t know the difference between a L2 dispenser and a DC fast charger
As some have already commented on, there needs to be one singular app and/or a standardization of digital infrastructure for EV charging. Why it’s not standard practice to simply swipe a credit card to start charging in a similar fashion to gas stations is absolutely mind blowing. That factor is just as important as range/car specs for facilitating adoption.
Credit card swiping is already an option, I can't imagine there will ever be a single app or standardized digital infrastructure. -Travis
A BIG issue with level 2 charging at 240v is the quality of the wall reciptical. Some are poor quality or not rated for continuous use. I believe it is best to hard wire the charger to the circuit.
The wall receptacle, installed by an electrician, melted in my detached garage. It was a Leviton 14/50, which can be found at a home hardware store for about ~$20. From what I understand, the constant heating and cooling down of the screws caused it to loosen and short. I only noticed when our Bolt EV stopped charging the next morning. The reason I decided against the hardwire version of the was portability, if we decided to move.
I do see some receptacles are now putting in their description about ev charging.
I'll be installing my Level 2 at home and I'll be expanding more on the subject then. Not all Level 2 EVSE are created equal. -Travis
The type of receptacle absolutely matters. Does Leviton at Home Depot is not up to the task, they do and will melt down! search for Hubbell or Bryant model of 14-50 receptacles, they are substantially more heavy duty for the demand of an EV
The apps requirement needs to be eliminated entirely if you want 'normal' people to adopt EVs. Can you imagine having to download an app and give all your info to BP, Citgo, Exxon, etc just to plug in and get an error message or charging so slow you have to leave and start the process over again at another station. That inconvenience is enough to keep people in an ICE vs EV or PHEV.
Completely agree!
Most of the charging locations I've seen have a credit card reader and no app is required. While the app absolutely collects a users information the benefit to said user is meant to be convenience either in 1) not having to pull a credit card out 2) providing discounts with app use or membership tiers and 3) allowing the user to track their charging session to name a few. -Travis
Really helpful in explaining this confusing subject. Thank you!
Glad it was helpful! -Travis
Nice basic overview. Thanks! I am a new non-Tesla EV owner who wants to get set up for the occasional road trip. I think i should probably get the apps (and accounts?) for Electrify America and EvGo. And I'll do some research on likely routes to see if there are others to set up. On a route where i have many options, I think I'll want to investigate pricing. Would appreciate a follow-on video covering the complicated world of non-Tesla road tripping.
abrp. done.
Thanks for the suggestion! -Travis
Great. Now how about one on charging etiquette? No one seems to cover that. That would be great.
Fair point. -Travis
The great thing about most of this is that the majority of people /do not need to know it/ to successfully own an EV.
Level 1 is great for almost anyone. Just plug into a wall outlet at night. Done it plenty.
Level 2 is nice but not necessary for most, and “just call an electrician” is the best advice I’d give to anyone who wants to go that route. Put one in two homes myself, but it’s a luxury and not a mandatory thing.
And DCFC “Level 3” is what most people imagine but it’s actually super niche and rare to need it - and many EV cars are getting much better at long routes that include charging.
Most EV stations don’t require an app today. Some gas stations have discount apps now, so it’s not unheard of or weird to use apps. Plus, tons of EV cars come with some amount of free or prepaid pass to incentivize learning how to use the app.
I'm not sure I would categorize Level 2 as a luxury but you're right that most folks likely won't use Level 3 (DCFC) anywhere near as much as they think they will. -Travis
Thank you.
You're welcome! -Travis
hi, i have 2025 Mazda CX-70 PHEV and i'm just wondering if i can charge it using level 3 charger . Thank you
This is FANTASTIC. Saving this for reference, and to send to everyone who says "I cant have an EV because I cant install a charger in my garage".
Question! Is it best to leave a car on a charger, or unplug once it's full?
Thank you!
you shouldnt own an ev if you cant charge at home. abc.
"Best" is dependant on what you're trying to achieve but I would say it's easiest to leave a vehicle plugged in at all times and even if that ends up being at 100% you're not going to be causing catastrophic harm to the battery. -Travis
This is one of the best clear and simple explanations of EV charging Travis, thank you. IMO this should also be posted on the ABG channel as it feels more geared towards that audience but great job nonetheless!
Thank you for the suggestion and your viewership! -Travis
Travis, I hope Alex is going to build you a bigger garage for all the cars you will be testing. 😃
Stranger things have happened but I won't be holding my breath on that one. -Travis
@@EVBuyersGuide 🤞🤞
Well done
Thank you, hope it's helpful! -Travis
Is there the potential we might see wireless EV charging built into special parking spaces in the future?
Absolutely, there are just some significant pieces to work out. The technology already exists but at this point I don't think anything would be moving forward unless it had universal adoption amongst manufacturers. I wouldn't have said the same thing a few years ago but with the Tesla/NACS/J3400 development folks want every EV to be able to charge where every other EV can. -Travis
I think you missed one important fact. The EVSE isn't just limited by the circuit it's plugged into, it is also limited by the capability of the EVSE itself. Just because you have a 60 amp circuit available for hardwiring, doesn't mean the EVSE can support 48 amp draw. Many of the EVSE that have either the NEMA 14-50 or 6-50 plug, which can safely draw 40 amps from a 50 amp breaker often max out as 32 amp draws. Then throw in the EVSE that can be set to draw less than their maximum capability for those that don't want to tax their wiring or electric bill. Our hardwired EVSE is connected to a 60 amp circuit, but we've set the internal switches to limit down to a maximum of 32 amps so we better match the output of our solar which the EVSE can draw over production from.
You're right that the EVSE itself plays a big part in this equation but I plan to cover that more when I get my EVSE installed and break down further what that process looks like. -Travis
There's no sae lvl 3 spec. It's dcfc.
I do refer to it as DC Fast Charging multiple times. -Travis
so if you live in a town-home like community with no chargers you shouldn't buy it unless you want to run a long electrical cord from your home and I am sure kids wont mess with it or burglars wont notice your window is open to run the cord from your house
If you don't have reliable charging at home (Level 1 may be enough for many) than I can't recommend buying an EV or PHEV. The only exception might be if you have VERY reliable charging at work. -Travis
I just don’t want to have to treat my vehicle like my phone when it comes to power.
If that changes I may change my mind but not until then.
That's a common sentiment but one that I think not only over simplifies the subject but also leads people to the wrong conclusion. The use case for a phone and vehicle are very different as is the effort to charge/keep them charged; a vehicle is a lot easier. -Travis
But it IS the same as with your phone. You plug in somewhere and it charges---as long as you don't care how fast it charges, that's all. But if you do care, you need to know which fast-charging standard your phone supports and how much power the USB socket you plug into can supply. There's everything out there between half a Watt and 100 Watts, different voltages from 5V to 20V, QC, QC3, QC4, USB-PD, Android/Apple 2A unlocks, and so on. EV charging is outright simple in comparison.
There is no such thing as level three chargers. They are DCFC.
They are. DC Fast Chargers and referring to charging in "levels" helps people better understand the differences. Can't see any harm in that. -Travis
@@EVBuyersGuideI strongly disagree with that. It encourages people to do things like calling a 150 kW charger a level 4 and a 350 kW charger a level 5. It does not add clarity.
I’ve seen car dealerships call 25 kW DCFCs a “level 2.5” charger.
Sort of. Level 1, 2 and 3 were originally meant to describe the power draw. Level 1 = 1 phase, or 120v, Level 2 = 240v and Level 3 was supposed to be for commercial 3 phase electrical which is 480v all AC. Most DC Fast Chargers actually pull from 3 phase sources, but then convert the AC to DC before passing on to the car. So while the A/C source is 3 phase aka Level 3, the actual output to the vehicle is DC.
As long as things are standardized I don't think calling 150kw and 350kw different levels would be a problem. We call gasoline regular and premium; most people have no idea what the numbers really mean. Plus a 150kw charger doesn't always net the vehicle 150kw so there's already room for misunderstanding. Don't get me wrong, I get that there's a wide range in Level 2 charging and Level 3 (DCFC) charging and I personaliy want to know the numbers but I think I'm in the minority on that one. -Travis
Ty @polleyjw
Travis, I hope you or Alex start to do vampire/phantom drain testing of the EVs that are tested. Like the Rivian phantom drain testing, that Alex posted about in the past. It's something a lot of potential EV owners would be interested in. Which should increase viewership and retention. Good luck in figuring out how to best incorporate it.
Nice EV charging overview. But wish you would have talked at least about 19.8 kW level 2 AC charging, which is an option for some EVs, such as a properly configured Ford Lightning.
And even bi-directional charging which the aforementioned Lightning offers. And 20 to 50kW DC charging, which is just now coming to the Home Market with bidirectional charging. But I guess you consider these more advanced charging options?
Travis good luck with this channel. And I will try not to be too pedantic, because I notice you already have too much of that type of feedback. lol
I appreciate the feedback, the dialogue, and your viewership! -Travis
Rivian phantom drain has been greatly reduced with recent updates
NEMA 10-30 gang
Interesting "gang". -Travis
I get 9.2kW output on a 40a 240v charger and I suspect the voltage has dropped some from the 55’ of 6g copper wire I put in to get out to the detached garage.
That's a pretty long run! -Travis
Excellent! Very well done and useful.
Happy to help! -Travis
That transition to the intro caught me by surprise
Sorry about that! -Travis
"Covered by ba--" 😅
-asics*. -Travis
Higher charging power, greater internal polarization, quicker capacity decay. This is dead simple battery chemistry, so don’t buy used EV unless you’re familiar with its charging history 😂
The nice thing about an EV is that you'll be able to make a pretty educated guess about the battery health based on the range available. Every vehicle is set up a little differently but if the range readout is accurate you can infer if it's healthy or not and that's something you can't do with an internal combustion engine unless you start taking it apart. I would be more comfortable buying a used EV because of this. -Travis
@@EVBuyersGuide that’s REALLY NICE!
With an electric future looming ahead every vehicle operator will need to have a basic understanding of electricity
Without knowing Voltage, Amperage and Power, it’s not easy to grasp the concept of ev charging and power usage
Most people will plug in at home and only keep track of battery percentage and that’s fine until they are low on charge far away from home and don’t know the difference between a L2 dispenser and a DC fast charger
thats is basic high school lvl information. which tells you why the republican party appeals to too many americans....
Hopefully this video is able to help them. -Travis