How to get into GOTH (What is GOTH?) | Kai Decadence
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- Опубліковано 29 тра 2024
- Hey there everyone! So in this video I go over how to get into the Goth scene. I mostly go over some tips on how to ease into the genre (or rather, sub-genres) of Goth as well as some other important things to keep in mind on your journey into the scene! This is another pretty long video so I highly suggest grabbing a drink and snack if you plan to watch because I'm gonna be covering a lot of stuff in this one lol.
I also suggest checking out my previous video where I go more into depth the difference between Goth vs Gothic vs Darkly-Inclined if you haven't seen it already! • The Problem with "GOTH...
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Hey there everyone! I hope that you enjoyed the video or got something out of it at the very least. This was another topic I was wanting to work on as I thought it was a good way to explain Goth and what the music is really about and thought it would be good to offer an informative though relatively breakdown of how one can ease themselves into the Goth scene. If you have any further questions, please feel free to ask away! Other than that, again, sorry that the video is late as per usual, life just got a bit busy (gotta love that right? lol). If you enjoyed this video and want to see more like it, be sure to subscribe! 'Till then, I'll catch you in the next video! As promised, I'll leave some links for those wanting to get into the Goth genre - MORE INFO ABOUT GOTH DOWN BELOW!
☥ If you haven't already, please do check out my previous video where I go over the differences between GOTH, GOTHIC, & DARKLY-INCLINED ua-cam.com/video/lk_QKoWWh2E/v-deo.html
☥ Enjoyed the Video, be sure to subscribe! ua-cam.com/channels/fK_vq2yJ83qcpI2mEkbVVA.html
☥ GAMING CHANNEL: ua-cam.com/channels/yEQjcYfW5XNiYiKHXb8iew.html
--- The 5 Genres of Goth music ---
• Goth / Goth Rock
- First Wave Goth Rock (Influenced heavily by 1970s Post-Punk. Timeline is from 1979 -1985)
- Second Wave Goth Rock (Influenced by The Sisters of Mercy, Fields of the Nephilim, and The Mission as the sound became much harder in style as opposed to the Post-Punk influenced First Wave of Goth Rock. This pretty much became the traditional standard of Goth rock from the second wave up to the present.)
• Deathrock
• Darkwave
• Ethereal Wave
• Coldwave
☥ General breakdown of Goth music - rateyourmusic.com/list/Draconysius/goth-the-history-the-heresy/
☥ Great channel that shares Goth music both old & new ~ ua-cam.com/users/THISISGOTHICROCK
☥ TIP #1 ~ Remember to stay within the sub-genres of Goth Rock, Deathrock, Darkwave, Ethereal Wave, and Coldwave when starting out so you can train your ears to pick up on what these styles are. When it comes to the "Wave" styles, just remember that the Goth style guitar ("Scything") will always be present which will make or break whether the song you're listening to is actual Goth music or not. With Darkwave, be very mindful of "Darkwave" because some people do wrongly categorize certain bands as "Darkwave" when they're actually just other electronic genres (usually EBM, Futurepop, & Synth Pop). Again remember, an actual Darkwave song will have the Goth "Scything" guitar in it (whether it's used sparingly or frequently). If you don't hear the "Scything" guitar in it, then you're not listening to a Darkwave song.
☥ TIP #2 ~ When looking for new music and using Mixtape style videos or playlists here on UA-cam, I highly advise that when starting out and trying to develop an ear for Goth genres, I wouldn't recommend clicking on mixes or playlists with titles that use other genres like "Synth Pop", "Synthwave", "Industrial", "EBM", "Futurepop", "Electro", "CyberGoth", "Cyber Punk", and "New Romantic" in the title because if you're trying to learn about Goth specific genres and you're new to it, it's best to keep focus on the 5 Goth genres because if you click on these other mixes/playlists, it's gonna throw you off developing "the ear" for Goth music. Once you develop "the ear" for Goth music and you know what it sounds like, then go wild and try out these other mixes/playlists since you'll now have the knowledge of what Goth music is and you can enjoy these other genres of music without questioning whether the music is Goth or not.
Some Other Informative Channels that talk about Goth music!
► Cadaver Kelly ~ ua-cam.com/channels/IGy2K9trxO1QmqipkZLYug.html
► Accumortis ~ ua-cam.com/channels/wnh_1dX6sWBkO5ZQyYR0Xg.html
► Obscura Undead ~ ua-cam.com/channels/YpDKDYdNkpAPtzkjW1_6Ew.html
Clan of Xymox is in hot water right now
@@AnthonyNekro Why?
@@KaiDecadence A poor joke they made at one of their concerts after a girl tried to take their setlist
@@KaiDecadence Ronny basically went full on racist with his response to the outrage
I know this video is a couple of weeks old, but I have been watching this great youtube channel called Cemetary Confessions....and he went over Goth as a subculture and basically thinks u can't be goth unless u listen to the music, dress the part and engage with/support the subculture. So, basically he believes that u have to have all of these things...because there are alot of ppl who enjoy post punk bands that may not be goth. (Like me lol). I really enjoy the fashion and the music most importantly...but Idk if I belong or not. Also, I live in a small town in GA where the nearest goth/alternative clubs are in Atlanta. Do u think this poses a problem with being a goth?
I find it weird that "goth" has just become a catch-all term for basically anything that's even vaguely dark. Some random girl wears eyeliner and a choker? Goth! A relatively mainstream artist happens to have colored hair and slightly unconventional lyrics? Goth! No, this is a specific subculture, goth is not just a word for anything moderately dark or alternative.
Pretty much haha.
tbh, the same happened for lots of words, language tends to evolve quite a lot
@@seapop2629 That may be true for some but that didn't happen with Goth. "Goth" is not some catch all term for anything Dark, it was always about music but the mainstream bastardized the term when they mainly focused on the look and not much on the music at all which in turned created a bunch of kids who think that being Goth is about dressing in black clothes with dark makeup and listening to Metal or these days, "Mumble Rap".
@@KaiDecadence so the language changed, such as the use of the word literally
@@seapop2629 Eh I wouldn't say "Changed", I'd say "Bastardized" when it comes to Goth because a lot of what you said came from ignorance. These people didn't no anything about Goth music and only focused on dark fashion and thinking that was enough. "Goth" has always been about music and that's just a fact. Without the music, there would be no subculture.
Absolute bullocks that the word 'goth' is widely known and appropriated by many but the actual subculture behind it is so unknown and under appreciated 😟
Yes it's a shame but Goth was never meant to be mainstream in the first place which kinda plays a part in why the actual scene is underground.
I'm happy to hear this style of guitar playing has a real name. All this time I've just described it as sounding "swirly" which is a pretty hard way to sell this music to non-goths, haha. Also, pleasantly surprised to see some bands I haven't heard of in this video! I'll definitely be giving those a listen!
Haha glad the video helped!
Swirly makes sense 😆
@Claudia Solomon I totally missed this comment but YES, you got it haha. This type of guitar is what defines Goth music as a genre. :)
This is really useful, thanks. My dad got me into goth, punk, and new wave as a kid and I wanted to delve further into it but felt overwhelmed. So thanks!
You're welcome!
I’ll be honest siouxie is what really got me into goth scene (started around 2018 so still baby bat 🦇)
Before I even knew what goth I had the misconception that it was scream,gargling and what not but boy did siouxie completely changed the game
I just love her I love her style her ,persona, her music and from her a whole door of beauty of artistic delight was opened
Love ya kai 🖤🖤🖤🖤🖤(you and Angela are the best goth educators youtube has to offer)
That's fair, Siouxsie Sioux is an icon of the Post-Punk scene (and her brief time in the Goth scene) so it's not surprising that a lot of people look up to her (myself included). And thank you, you're took kind. :)
Same here I started with Siouxsie and She Past Away and I became a goth in 2018.
Same!
I think the Sisters Of Mercy is the perfect first goth band to get into. They have a timeless sound that has aged perfectly and still sounds fresh
I agree. Not to mention they did put the final touches on what was defined the goth rock sound.
This was a really great video. Something I'd add as a note for the people trying to understand coldwave or those who want a better understanding of it -- it's usually very minimalist, and sometimes can be found being labelled synonymous terms including: touching pop, minimalwave, or sometimes French (new)wave/post-punk. It's also the one main goth subgenre where (at least, this is a particular observation I've had) guitars are sometimes fully replaced with synths, or at least it was a common trait among many early French coldwave bands. It really depends on the track itself, but many coldwave bands played more heavily with electronics than some of the other regional goth/post-punk scenes. Guitar was still present a lot of the time, but I've noticed that the playing/writing style (the scything, as you called it) can be heard, but on keyboards (or in modern coldwave bands, even programmed) instead of being strictly played with a guitar. At least, the writing style/structure and note sequences are pretty much identical. Many of the typical effects applied to the guitar (reverb, chorus, etc.) can be applied to the synths to mimic the same tone as guitars. It's just something I've noticed, but I agree that in most cases the guitar is the key sound and easiest thing to spot when finding new goth music. This is overall some really amazing content for newcomers to goth!
Oh, and another tip for people getting into coldwave: there was also a much later American "cold wave" genre, but it's actually a subgenre of industrial metal and has nothing to do with the original French scene/modern goth coldwave. It's rare to find anyone using it for the industrial subgenre, but it's something to be aware of.
Thanks! Yeah that's a good point about Coldwave. I have noticed that some Coldwave bands did opt to use the synth to imitate scything, that was a good observation. :)
I am definitely more a trad goth kinda person! :) But I never limit myself to one goth music movement, and like other music and bands!
So you're saying you mostly like the First wave of Goth music? (Assuming so since you said "Trad Goth")
I really want to get into goth stuff but it seems so intimidating, this video is so helpful
The important thing is to just take it slow because there is no rush. Just keep checking out the music and if you end up liking it, that's really all there is to it.
when you played wasteland, that *a w o k e* something in me
You did really well with this. To say you should do a goth genre ranking tag. My favorite genre is Ethereal Wave
That would be fun lol.
I've noticed I REALLY like ethereal wave and cold wave over the rest. I think they are all pretty cool but I can see myself listening to ethereal/cold more. I love how this video gives multiple examples. 😊
I'm glad the video helped and you found some sub-genres that peaked your interest 😊 Be sure to check out the playlists on my playlists section because I did devote some to Ethereal Wave and Coldwave.
"Ikon - condemnation" has the right amount of my preferred sound. Like a swing of a blade so sharp that it cuts the air.
Awesome
I love all sub-genres of goth music and music in general, especially 45 Grave. I have a lot of them in my goth playlist along with songs from Bauhaus, The Cure, and Siouxsie and the Banshees.
Cool
In my opinion, Goth music is the No#1 BEST thing about the subculture, the fashion comes in second. Long story short, ANYBODY can dress Goth, but dressing Goth doesn't make them Goth if they don't listen to or like the music. ^_^
Why don't you have more subs?🖤
I'm relatively a baby bat in a lot of ways. I'm currently really deeply feeling deathrock and certain songs considered first or second wave.
I come from a background of being into modern punk, classic metal, and a scattering in indie and Alt rock.
I love how cohesive and informative this video is! You have yourself a new sub!
P.S: I immediately started dancing when Sacrifice came on lol
I'm glad the video was helpful, the goal of the video was to especially help newcomers ease into the music in some way so nice to hear it's been helping people. And "Sacrifice" is a good one haha.
This was super helpful and insightful. I loved that I got to see your face at the end! Such a sweet soul, thanks for this!
I think you made a very good job on this video. You really got the definition of what "goth music" really is based on the sound and instruments used, and that made me understand a it lot better. And about the other dark music genres that people usually relate to Goth but aren't - I think you explained it very well.
Great video! Very informative and respectful to new people coming into the scene. Also, love your look at the end of the video 🖤
Glad you enjoyed the video and thanks!
Thanks for explaining! loved the points and your delivery!
Thank you, I'm glad the video helped!
Thank you so much! I've been struggling to get into the music because I want to become a part of the subculture. This was the most helpful video with music. I really appreciate it! It's clear how much work you put into it :)
You're welcome :D
I like a lot of the examples you showed, I like the aggressive stuff but I also calm and somber sound as well. I’ve always been very picky when it comes to music but I’ve had and appreciation for goth or gothic type stuff as well as dark style things in general
an awesome video!!!! pretty much every video that I’ve seen online regarding this topic has been about fashion and looks and it just doesn’t translate to the real life component of the subculture at all. Thank you for staying factual and making awesome content🦇🖤
Haha ironic you say that because that is why I wanted to make this video. I was getting tired of the fashion stuff because at the core, it's not about that stuff and I just felt like making a video that will actually be of some help to getting into what Goth is centered around. Not that there's anything wrong with clothing or anything, fashion can be fun but if all else, I made this video with the intention to help ease newcomers into the music. :) I'm glad you enjoyed it and thank you!
So happy to see a brand new video Kai Decadence! Love your perspective and advice -- thanks for sharing! :)
Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed!
This is a great video, it reminds me of when I first started getting into the subculture. Back then I wish I came across a video like this giving sound recommendations, because I also had trouble getting into the 80’s sound. Anyway thanks for the great video.
Thanks! Yeah same here, I would've loved a video like this as well and even though I'm well versed in the genre now, I still felt like there may be newcomers who thought like we did when we were slowly getting into it so this video was made to help them. :)
Goth elders are necessary for the growth and education for all baby bats.
Leila Taylor creative director of the Brooklyn library and author of,
"Darkly Black History and America's Gothic Soul" talks about her book, her love of cemetery walks, and being a Black Goth elder.
Reading is fundamental.
I’m really grateful for running into your channel. Bc I’ve been wanting to get into goth music and fashion for a long time and I would’ve looked like a damn fool if it weren’t for the info you provided
No problem! I'm glad the video helped explain things. :)
Thank you so much! You helped me find some great bands. Autumn's "The Fall" is so fantastic. Thanks for helping me discover Goth music!
Excellent explanation. I like most of the music; especially:
The Mission, LAM, Xymox, Frozen Autumn... & P. Pitchfork,
Blutengel, ֆ, S.P.K., E. Neubauten.... that are also Industrial
As a metalhead I really enjoy deathrock as well as some of ethereal wave and those last bands you mentioned that are "heavier". Some pretty good stuff mate, especially Voodoo Church. Thanks for making this cool and informative video.
Thank you!
As I’m learning more about this subculture, it helped me found for who I am as a person. It helped me stayed true to myself.
i was really wanting to learn more about goth music and its various subgenres with examples of the sounds, and this video was exactly what i was looking for!! thank you for the informative video❤ deffo gonna check out some of these bands!
Thanks for this detained and informative video. I've been trying to expand my music horizons lately, since I'm doing a lot of sewing for a part time job and enjoy it most with good music. I've always wondered why the gothic metal bands I enjoyed sound completely unrelated to my favorite post punk and goth rock bands, and you gave a very helpful explanation of the characteristics that make goth music goth. I'd never heard the term "scything" before, so it's nice to have a word to describe that. And thanks for all the great bands to check out.
That's great to hear, I'm glad the video helped!
I swear, first time I watched this video, I felt so relaxed hearing "Deliverance"
Another great video! I've been into Goth music for a few years now so I'm not new, but I always find your videos informative and you always introduce me to bands I hadn't encountered yet. I think this would be a great start for anyone interested in getting into Goth music. I wish I could get people I know to sit down and watch this video so they could have a better idea of what Goth really is because nobody around me gets it. Since others are mentioning what got them into Goth music, I have to admit for me it was Siouxsie and the Banshees like many other people. From there, I wanted to explore the genre more and I have discovered so much music I love over the years. Any ideas for future videos? I will look forward to them!
Aw shucks, thanks! That means a lot because I do try to make these videos as best as I can, especially this one since I wanted to talk about this for about a year now. Yeah I know the video is kinda long but when it comes to Goth, it's just not really that possible to explain things in under 5 minutes if you really want people to understand in my opinion. And Siouxsie and the Banshees are a popular one that draw people in so I'm not surprised, them and The Cure were the ones of the original first wave Goth bands that I did like when first getting into the music so I can understand the appeal. As for newer videos, I do have one in mind that I'll be doing later in the year though I'd rather not spoil it at this time lol.
I'm somewhat new to the goth subculture. I love learning about these kinds of things I even take notes.
I enjoy all aspects of it the music (especially the first wave of goth rock)
and doing my hair makeup and putting together outfits from scratch. I love pushing the limits.
Well that's nice to hear. Glad you've been enjoying the music and experimenting with person style~
WOW THE AUTUMN , FALL SONG!!! I HAVE TO LISTEN TO IT IT'S RIGHT UP MY ALLEY. then again anyone that hears the music i like it's pretty obvious. BLESS YOU for intro me into it it's def my zone and i didn't know them yet.
You're welcome lol Autumn is pretty great. :)
I love this video! I was searching for an overwiew of all the goth bands and subgenres, it was very helpful 😊🖤
Glad the video helped!
THANK YOU I HAD A FIGHT WITH SOME COUPLE OF "GOTH" i told them its all about the music genre yet they say its all about the person and that u dont have to listen to goth music (they are confusing gothic literature with goth subculture) also they all call me a sheep one of them said and i qoute "That actually understands us and knows what being goth actually means unlike some people who degrade our lifestyle to a meer subculture" the other one said "BEING GOTH ISN'T A CHOICE ITS A WAY OF LIFE THE TRUE GANG WOULD ALL HATE HOW MUCH SHIT YOUR TRYING TO PULL" like i just said that being goth you just have to listen to the music thats all :/
Good grief lol Yeah I get your frustration, these people don't know what they're talking about and they're just looking like fools in the process I don't get why people who don't like Goth music want to be considered "goth" so badly, it doesn't make sense because it is a music-based scene. If you only like wearing black clothes and dark makeup, that's cool but it doesn't make you a Goth, it makes you Darkly-Inclined. And this whole "way of life" crap is just nauseating. tbh.
Thank you for making this video! Although, I have immersed myself into the Goth genre some months ago, I still feel like I don't really know which subgenre fits my taste and this video helped me so much! ^^
Also, Sorry for my bad english😂
Well just so you know, it's okay to like all of them, you don't need to just like and listen to one of them. While I myself am more drawn to Darkwave, I also do like Goth Rock, Ethereal Wave, and Coldwave. :)
@@KaiDecadence Oh ok, thanks! ^^
The first second and third sounds pretty awesome because I can adapt to them all
Great video very informative and full of bands that I now have to listen to. Also really glad you started out giving the characteristics of goth music, cause as a newborn baby bat (literally been about 2 & 1/2 months since I discovered goth was a music culture and not just a fashion style) I'm still finding bands and trying to figure if their goth or not. This criteria definitely solidifies most of them, though some I'm now questioning like blutengel and a band called her despair, maybe sopor aeternus. Even if not I still would t have discovered these groups I now like If I had not delved into the goth/gothic music culture.
I'm glad that this video helped. Also it's funny you mentioned bands like Blutengel and Sopor Aeternus because these bands definitely fit into misappropriation of goth music (not intentionally by the bands themselves but the fans). I have a future video in the work where I bring up bands that get wrongly categorized as "Goth" when they aren't but it's months away so I'll give a brief explanation.
- Bluntengel ~ They often get mislabeled as a "goth" band, specifically "darkwave" but the truth is that they don't make darkwave music, they predominantly make EBM music while in recent years, started making more Futurepop songs. EBM and Futurepop music are sub-genres of Industrial music, not Goth music.
The reason why the band gets miscategorized so much as "goth" or "darkwave" is because people were focusing too much on the musicians' physical appearance and not on the music itself. Plus back in the early 2000s, there was lots of mislabeling going around and not many people knew what darkwave music actually sounded like and they just called any electronic sounding music that sounded dark automatically 'darkwave".
But yeah, truth is that Blutengel are not Darkwave, they are an EBM/Futurepop band.
- Sopor Aeterunus ~ Agian, doesn't make goth music. The music they actually make is an alternation of Neoclassical, Dark Folk (majority of their music), and Experimental Rock. Like Blutengel, Sopor also gets wrong categorized as "darkwave" but their music sounds nothing like darkwave at all but because not many bands play experimental rock music, it throws off people who have never heard that genre before and just assume it's goth/darkwave because of musician's physical appearance.
But in short, no, they aren't a goth/darkwave band, just an dark experimental band that alternated between the aforementioned genres I explained above.
- Her Despair ~ So I've only heard a few songs and I get that they're kinda popular but do I think they sound "goth"? Eh... I don't think they do mainly because I don't hear any familial goth guitar in the songs I've listened to of theirs. They sound like a Hard Rock band with a darker tone to them. You know like Evanescence only without the piano.
So based what I've heard, nah I wouldn't consider their sound "goth" but some nice darker style hard rock.
If you'd like to take a bigger delve into goth music, definitely check out my playlsts on channel, I've curated all kinds of playlists tethered by genre.
4:13 nine while nine riff
I needed a video like this back in 7th grade. I could of learned a lot. Me now would go back in time to tell my younger self these things.
Understandable haha.
@@KaiDecadence Yeah, lol
I love all of it!
thank u so much for this, I’m a teenager new to this and it’s so confusing to get into new music and it’s scenes properly
You're very welcome, glad the video helped!
This was a really good video and I loved the animations which are very charming, thanks so much. I wasn’t able to classify the type of goth music I liked because I’m picky, but it seems I’m mostly into first and second wave goth. My partner, on the other hand, really gravitated to your sample of Christian Death and now he has shown interest in the music. 🖤
Glad to hear the video helped!
This is one of my new most favorites videos on the internet
Thank you 😊
Already becoming addicted to the music. Still a new comer to the genre.
That's awesome, glad you're enjoying the music. Be sure to check out my playlists as well as I have lots of music to share with people and I divided them by genre and era for easy listening :)
The 80's original sound has been hard for me to really vibe with (though thats true for 80s music of any genre for me, unless it's Prince lol.) BUT! DARKWAVE OMG I LOVE IT o_o Thanks for the vid.
Absolutely brilliant tutorial, love it! This is the first time I have heard the term "Scything Guitars". I have heard it described a few times as guitars sounding like "razors". I often hear Joy Division labeled as a Goth band, but never really notice the distinctive scything guitar sound. Your summary of the Goth sound really just clarifies what I love about the genre. Going to listen to some Ghost Dance and Death Cult now.
Bro I could have SWORE someone recommended Nightwish to me as goth and I was really warming up to them....Str8 bummer I STILL haven’t found a “fav” goth band I guess. Thx so much though! This was best music breakdown I have heard or seen!
Nighrwish is one of the few bands that gets wrongly labeled as "Goth" music when they aren't. Nightwish is a Power Metal turned Symphonic Metal band so yeah, people who say they are a Goth band are misinformed. Glad that the video helped!
Can you make a video on how you made your goth jewelry? Or how thrifting/DIY is apart of the goth subculture?
I might in the future~
I absolutely love these animated videos you make! I am so happy that I learnt the word "scything" because I have always had the tune in mind, but I never realised it had a name. Thank you. =)
Gods Own Medicine is one of my favourite albums ever, so seeing it with your background was very pleasing to the eye. ❤
I disagree with just two things. One is about when you said goth and metal are very opposite, and that is because gothic metal is where they meet. PLEASE, listen to these albums START to FINISH and you'll hear a lot of goth elements. It's true that they belong in the metal category, but it doesn't mean that there aren't gothic rock and darkwave elements. They are: Theatre of Tragedy's Aegis, Moonspell's Irreligious, and Tiamat's Skeleton Skeletron. Trust me, there are MANY other albums such as these, but I don't know why you don't make the time to listen to any. If you do, you'll clearly hear the goth elements in those albums which is exactly why those bands are not popular amongst metalheads!
That brings me to the second point, your 5x5 rule. People need to limit this playlist stuff in my opinion and tune in with ALBUMS. Listening to two or three singles from a band doesn't make one a fan. There needs to be at least two albums that one likes from start to finish because it gives one experience in enjoying the band. For example, can one really only like five 'Sisters of Mercy songs and be a fan? I find that strange especially if it's a band that only has two or three albums anyways. Same for a band with a larger discography such as Nosferatu. I'd feel very ridiculous calling myself a fan if I only liked five songs out of their abundant (and amazing) catalogue.
Lastly, the bands that got me into goth are The Sisters of Mercy and The Cure. Again, awesome job! And, you look great as always. 😊🦇😊🦇😊🦇
> I disagree with just two things. One is about when you said goth and metal are very opposite because gothic metal is where they meet. PLEASE, listen to these albums START to FINISH and you'll hear a lot of goth elements. It's true that they belong in the metal category, but it doesn't mean that there aren't gothic rock and darkwave elements. They are: Theatre of Tragedy's Aegis, Moonspell's Irreligious, and Tiamat's Skeleton Skeletron. Trust me, there are MANY other albums such as these, but I don't know why you don't make the time to listen to any. If you do, you'll clearly hear the goth elements in those albums which is exactly why those bands are not popular amongst metalheads!
Alright here's the thing. I'm already familiar with all those bands. I'll tackle them one by one.
• Theatre of Tragedy ~ I will concede with this one that YES, the "Aegis" album did have the main characteristic (The Scything Guitar) but this was the only album that ever had that and it was because the guitarist was Tommy Olsson who was already a Goth musician (he was in the band Elusive and later worked with Long Night & October Burns Black). Tommy Olsson only worked on this album and then left and continued work with Elusive and Theatre of Tragedy went back to the standard Gothic Metal sound (which is not rooted in Goth rock, I'll explain more in a bit with the other examples). This is probably the only case of an actual blend of Goth meets Metal.
• Tiamat ~ I disagree with this one though I will say this. Tiamat is or rather was a Gothic-Doom Metal band that made one album (the album that featured some Goth influenced songs (The Skeleton Skeleton album and even then, not all the songs on it was using Goth "Scything guitar", all the songs except for "Sympathy for the Devil", "Lucy", "As Long As You Are Mine", and "Dust is Our Fare" had "scything guitar" in them.) Now with that all being said, that and their Judas Christ album (and again, it wasn't even all the songs) were the only albums that they experimented with that kind of guitar playing before going back to the standard Gothic Metal sound though they did start out as Death-Doom (which I'll be coming back to in a moment).
• Moonspell ~ Absolutely disagree here. Moonspell were pure Black Metal turned Gothic-Doom Metal. At least with all the songs I've heard, never heard a lick of it anywhere.
Now yes, I do not deny that there have been a small handful of Metal bands that did dabble with Goth guitar '(mostly because the guitarist was or had affiliation to a Goth rock band) but the vast majority of the Gothic Metal genre do not do that. Gothic Metal's root lie within Doom Metal (specifically Death-Doom) before it branched away from Death Metal and became Gothic Metal and the "Gothic" comes from the lyrical content referencing Gothic Literature as well as the inclusion of neoclassical elements. And Gothic =/= Goth as I've already explained before. And for the sake of this video, I wanted to keep it strict and direct on the main plate of Goth music. I may talk about the few Metal bands that did dabble with Goth guitar but this video was not the time for it as I wanted to keep things straight and to the point.
> That brings me to the second point, your 5x5 rule. People need to limit this playlist stuff in my opinion and tune in with ALBUMS. Listening to two or three singles from a band doesn't make one a fan. There needs to be at least two albums that one likes from start to finish because it gives one experience in enjoying the band. For example, can one really only like five 'Sisters of Mercy songs and be a fan? I find that strange especially if it's a band that only has two or three albums anyways. Same for a band with a larger discography such as Nosferatu. I'd feel very ridiculous calling myself a fan if I only liked five songs out of their abundant (and amazing) catalogue.
• It's not about being a fan of the band, it's about understanding the Goth sound which I think is much more doable by listening to a few songs from a platter of different Goth bands. I'm just being realistic here because I know that not every newcomer is gonna want to listen to a whole album in one sitting and thanks to sites like UA-cam, it's possible to listen to all kinds of a band's library and get a taste of it. Again, it's not about becoming a fan of the bands right away but just dipping the toes into the Goth genre and seeing if you like what you're hearing or not and I think 5x5 is good starting point.
@@KaiDecadence I'm going to disagree with the part about the gothic metal subject because it really sounds like you haven't delved into it as much. Otherwise, you would be naming more obscure bands that really accomplished the balance between the two genres such as Diabolique, Catafalque, Charon, and many others. The point you're really missing is that gothic metal is supposed to sound a little heavier and distanced; but, that doesn't mean that it doesn't contain goth elements other than lyrics about gothic literature. When I listen to songs like "Remedy" and "Catholic" by Diabolique, there is no way that goth didn't touch these tracks. In fact, you've used a gothic metal song thinking it was goth in one of your videos, but I just wish I can remember which one so that I can show you the band's profile on Metal Archives. So, I'll just agree to disagree on this subject other than for the part that it doesn't stem from goth.
Also, scything is NOT the only key element in goth music. Yes, it's a common one, but it isn't always there. Going back to darkwave, not all Clan of Xymox, Suspiria, and London After Midnight songs have them. And that doesn't make them less goth. It just means that there are other elements in the genre. As for 5x5, I continue to disagree because a mere song or two doesn't really help one get into the genre. If a person isn't interested in fully jumping into it, then more likely they're never going to understand and appreciate it. I say that because the only way to love it is to love the bands who create it. And, only five songs as a starting point seems weak in my mind especially in this day in age where discographies are available on UA-cam. In my mind, it makes sense that if you like a band, you hear most of their songs. Maybe we just have different personalities; you prefer to dip people's toes, and I prefer to just throw them into the water as it "comes rushing over". ;)
I'm glad, though, that there are more things in the video that we agree on than disagree. Cheers. 🦇
@@ademcanvaner2567 Again my main contention is that Gothic Metal as a whole is NOT a Goth sub-genre. You're right that it's not a genre I have heavily dived into mostly because I'm not interested in the standard sound that music is played in. I am aware of bands like The Mist of Avalon, Memorium, The Unborn, The Wounded, Amatris, and a few others that have escaped my mind at the moment. But as I said before, they are exceptions to the rule. And okay, fair enough in saying that it's not a standard style of Metal, I never contested that it was but that doesn't make it Goth by association. You were complaining that I didn't mention all this in the video and I already explained why. I was purely keeping it on standard Goth and its sub-genres.
And I'm sorry but yes, "Scything" is the main key component in Goth music. It's utilized in all the sub-genres of Goth hence what makes it a sub-genre under the genre it falls under ("Goth" in this case). If you don't hear the "scything" in the song, it's not a Goth song. Because here's the deal. If you're gonna throw the lyrics card at me, Dark, Somber, and general down-moon lyrics can be found in any genre of music. The Melodic basslines are also not just used in Goth music neither nor the drumming style (Drum machines are very popular in EBM and New Wave music for example) and I'm pretty sure I don't even need to get into the synthesizers. In my own research, The "Scything" guitar was the main consistent component I kept hearing in the these sub-genres with the exception of some first wave Deathrock. And it's also what helped me decipher the wave styles (Darkwave especially). After having to dig through a good many mislabeling with EBM, Futurepop, & Synth-Pop music being wrongly called Darkwave music (especially early EBM & Synth-Pop), that's what helped me figure out what makes a song truly Darkwave I.E: it'll have the Scything guitar, it's just typically used either as hooks throughout the song or chorus bits, pretty much used sparingly as opposed to Goth Rock. If you're not hearing the Scything guitar in the so called "Darkwave" song, you're not listening to a Darkwave song and are most likely listening to a Synth-Pop, EBM, Futurepop, or Electro song. Same with deciphering Ethereal Wave vs a genre like Dream Pop or Shoegaze. So i'm sorry but you're not gonna change my mind on this at all, especially after seeing just how bad the mislabeling really got with Darkwave with having EBM, Futurepop, and Synth Pop bands like Depeche Mode, Blutengel, Deine Lakaien, The Cruxshadows (their post 90s work), Static Icon, Wolfsheim, De/Vision, And One, Ayria, Covenant, VNV Nation, Front 242, The Fair Sex, Nitzer EBB, Dust of Basement, The Birthday Massacre, and a good many others. I'll most likely do a video on this in the future. In hindsight, I probably should've explained more about Darkwave and more specifically, the mislabeling that went on with it but the video was already long enough so I opted out but I'll definitely be tackling this in a future video for sure.
And finally, I wasn't implying that ALL songs of a certain band are one specific genre. Have you not seen my previous videos where I show this in saying that not all the Cure's music was Goth nor was Siouxsie and the banshees. It applies to these other bands here with some exceptions like The Merry Thoughts, The Wake, Rosetta Stone, and a few others who more or less stuck with the same sound for a big bulk of their work. But then there are bands like Suspiria & London After Midnight who have mixed it up playing both Goth Rock and Darkwave songs respectively. Or for a more extreme example, Switchblade Symphony who did Darkwave one moment and then tried out Trip Hop. So believe me, I am aware of this kind of thing lol.
And again, this video was mostly directed for newbies. Note how I said at that segment that "I'd personally say 10x10 is ideal" but that 3-5 songs of 3-5 bands is a step in the right direction for entry level at the very least. And again, some people just don't like sitting through a whole album in one sitting so this is just a better compromise I find. I more or less do this these days where I'll listen to like 2-3 songs off of an album and then move to the next coming back to said album when I feel like it.
And yes, we will definitely have to agree to disagree but I hope my explanation at least got across some context. As far as diving into Darkwave and more important the misconceptions about it as well as well as some metal bands dabbling with Goth guitar, those will be getting separate videos.
@@KaiDecadence You hit and missed my point, mate. My question is: Did YOU decide that scything makes a song goth or not, or did you read that somewhere? If you read it somewhere, I'd like to see it, please. If you came up with it, then, by your standards, "Bela Lugosi's Dead" is not a goth song because that one doesn't have scything (point it out out if you disagree). Also, The Cruxshadows are not goth? I think you have some facts misconstrued, which is why I am very curious as to where you got this information other than just from your auditory observations. One needs to quote sources before assuming this kind of stuff as "facts". (I am aware you said post-'90s, but I think all their stuff fits into darwakve just fine regardless of any fusion elements.)
Also, I did not play the lyrics card. I agreed with you that lyrics don't automatically place a song/band/album into a genre. But, I never talked about The Cruxshadows, Blutengel, and those other bands you mentioned; I asked about Clan of Xymox, Suspiria, and London After Midnight. It's true that they are experimental, like you say, but the point that I am trying to make is that that's acceptable in goth. Not the entire discography has to sound a certain way in order for it to be accepted under the goth umbrella.
Before putting the gothic metal topic to rest, I promised Obscura Undead that I will have an article ready about that in the upcoming weeks, so I promise to send it to you. The point that I am trying to get you to see is that gothic metal is like gothabilly. Is it a goth subgenre? NO. But, does it contain goth elements? Absolutely! I can't speak for the particular ones you mentioned because I have not heard those; but, if you listen to the ones that I listed, especially those particular songs by Diabolique, my goodness, one would have to be very biased to deny the gothic rock and darkwave elements in those songs. And, which album puts Moonspell under the black metal umbrella?! They have been gothic metal for the longest time until the past twelve/thirteen years when they started adding melodic death metal elements to their songs, making their music similar to that of Septicflesh and Fleshgod Apocalypse. Black metal is along the lines of early-Bathory (the pioneers of the sound), Mayhem, Gorgoroth, Carpathian Forest, 1349, and Marduk. Moonspell never sounded like that! Another band I should add is Mortal Love, especially their last album. Are you really convinced that there is no ethereal wave on that album? On that note, what about Dead Can Dance, Sopor Aeternus & the Ensemble of Shadows, Faith and the Muse, and Faith and Disease? MANY of their songs lack scything. Like I said, I'd like to see a proper source that backs this frivolous argument of yours because otherwise it sounds like nothing more than your observation. My "complaint" isn't a complaint that you didn't mention all of this in your video; that's because I know what the video is about. My issue is you're very dismissive of the subgenre as if goth never touched it. And, I can never agree with that. If you listen to the albums/songs that I am mentioning, you'd know exactly what I mean that it is a fusion genre. Also, gothic metal, gothic doom metal, and symphonic/blackened gothic metal are not the same... Again, you see what I mean by you have to know where to look in order to find the goth elements? I will explain all of that further in the article.
As for the noobs/baby bats, I guess everyone has a way of enjoying music that's individual. I rarely enjoy tracks on their own as I find that it loses my attention. I did so when I was getting into the genre, but when I like a band, I enjoy a whole record at a time. It's a good way to understand them, and especially if those albums are concept albums.
Either way, I am very grateful that we managed to challenge each other on this subject because now people can read our arguments and decide for themselves. But, I think it's important to agree on the fact that it isn't a goth subgenre, and nor would it make someone goth if that's all they listened to. Thankfully, we both have that common ground.
been listening to goth music my whole life however, i don’t dress in the style. great video!
Im definitely a more support gothic music type of person than dress it all the time kind of person, this video has been super helpful, thank you
I'm glad the video helped~
I like this!! I didn’t think I would I’m an indie rock person but I really like this! Thank you for showing it to me 😁
You're welcome!
first f all: that video helped me so much, thanks!
second of al: I was surprised by the facecam, but wow, you look real nice!
Thanks!
4:24 around here it starts playing nine while nine by sisters of mercy? interesting if covered by the mission..
Nah the sample used here was a cover played by someone here on UA-cam.
I got into goth from loving new wave...and then I started listening to post punk bands like The Smiths and even some shoes gaze, then The Cocteau Twins and from there Siouxsie and the Banshees...
Edit: This was a great video, Thanx!! I actually feel like I got an idea on how the different genres sound unlike alot of videos I've watched. Also,I have been making a playlist lol.
Glad the video helped!
Im 16 but am getting interested in different alt subcultures since some of my friends are alt, but i wanted to explore the subcultures and genres ny myself to understand each one. I decided to start off with goth but it was difficult understanding everything with just Google searching, this really helped thanks lol.
Edit: I also have trouble since I don't listen to cerrain bands usually but just whatever song comes on that i like
I'm glad the video helped bridge the gap a bit :)
I recently just got back into some goth music/bands and just want to get a little refresher, so this video is really great! Very informative and interesting. Do you guys have a favourite genre and band you really like?
Haha awesome. As for favorite genre, if we're talking Goth music, I notice that I tend to be into a lot of Darkwave. As for bands, they're constantly shifting and changing but the 5 I go back to a lot are She Past Away, Nosferatu, Requiem In White, London After Midnight, and Paralysed Age.
This video is pure quality 🖤. Could you make Spotify playlists with the subgenres? I think they‘d be really sick
Thanks! I actually might do this. I haven't used Spotify a whole lot ever since I got an Ipod but yeah I'll definitely consider that. :)
Good call on the Sisters/Nephs inspired wing being the best place for metal fans interested in trying out goth sounds. That was my entry point, with Rosetta Stone and Nosferatu being early purchases. I’ve grown into the older stuff since then, but an album like “Vision Thing” wasn’t that great a leap from hard rock and metal.
Haha yeah they were the best I could think of to bridge that gap a bit.
good video, well explained. personally i have stopped being part of the goth culture bc i was told on many occasion that "you are only goth if you listen to only goth music" and bc i listen to sympho metal and rock as well i wasnt a real goth. i hate the gatekeeping that goes on sometimes. i still enjoy a lot of goth music tho and i think this vid did great in explaining it.
> i listen to sympho metal and rock as well i wasnt a real goth.
Whoever says that you're not a Goth because you listen to both Goth music as well as other genres of music are being ridiculous. IF you just mean that you preferred listening to Symphonic Metal and Rock and not so much Goth music, I could understand what they meant there but it doesn't seem like that was the case. Either way I'm glad the video helped explain things.
Actually a kinda cool find for a band, I’m a metal head before a goth and I’ve actually been on a long look out for bands that maybe mix the 2 without being called “gothic metal” and one that I adore is Bismuth. They combine believe it or not Cold Wave with doom metal into a splendid masterpiece. I can call it goth, because it does have scything guitars and those classic synths but it also has heavier bass elements to it and a sorta blackened doom metal aspect and it’s kinda it’s own thing. I would highly recommend it, and I’ve even found some similar contemporaries in mixing cold wave with black or doom metal. You wouldn’t think they would mix, and there is a fine line between what is goth and what’s not, but I find it to be an interesting sound with the best of both worlds.
I gave the band a listen and I'm not sure if I was listening to the right band since there are 5 bands named Bismuth but the one I heard had something called "The Slow Dying of the Great Barrier Reef" and I'm sorry but I don't hear any Goth in it at all. It sounds like your typical Doom Metal to me. I listened to "Weltschmerz", the first few minutes of that album, and their song "Solitude and Emptiness". Nothing Goth sounding about these songs at all. Sure in the "The Slow Dying of the Great Barrier Reef", it did have some synth in it but synth is not the main key characteristic of Goth music. The guitar that you're talking about, it's not "scything", it's way too thick and heavy just like you find in the genre (which makes sense). So I'm sorry but no, this band didn't blend Metal with Goth, it's just another Doom Metal band that has some occasional Sludge Metal parts in it.
Wow! Draconian Incubus is a band from my country and is surreal to hear them being mention for someone out of our country, this is so good
Haha nice. Yeah Draconian Incubus were one of the first newer bands I listened to back years ago. I'm surprised not many have heard of them since hey have/a nice sound
@@KaiDecadence I agree
Dark wave, the first and the second wave of goth are the music i got into goth through my mom and a friend of my dad both listens to this music. Especially in germany i recommend starting with Dark wave: Asp and Blutengel are both still kind of near to pop music. Also even through not goth music Eisbrecher are a good way from "Neue deutsche härte" also Unheilig is a good way to Ease into goth music
Metalhead here (specifically more into the gothic metal sound), lately I've been getting more into goth music, videos like this are super helpful! I will say that there was a some crossover in fanbases between the styles especially in the late 90s and early 2000s (mostly in Europe, as well as in parts of Latin America), and if people are looking for heavier goth bands (or bands that fit that in-between sound) I might have some suggestions?
1. Lacrimosa is probably the most well-known example, neo-classical/darkwave with some metal riffing sprinkled in (especially mid-late 90s and 2000s).
2. Aesma Daeva's first album was a mix of gothic metal, industrial, and darkwave (for the first half, anyway. The other half is really atmospheric and sparse).
3. The Dreamside started as an atmospheric/darkwave band, but started adding more rock and gothic metal influences into their sound starting with their 2001 album Mirror Moon (still wouldn't really call them gothic metal, though).
4. Erben der Schopfung was a gothic metal band whose main songwriter is a member of neo-classical/darkwave band WeltenBrand, so he brought a lot of those influences to the project (along with some added EBM/synth-based stuff).
5. Closterkeller is a band that started as goth rock (slightly new wave-y) in the late eighties (their albums Purple, and Blue are in those styles), then they did some heavier albums, and did some gothic metal sounding work (Violet, Cyan, Scarlet, and Graphite), though I wouldn't exactly say they committed to playing that genre. I'd say their music exists on a sliding scale of goth, atmospheric rock, and gothic metal. They're considered a staple in the Polish goth scene, and inspired an entire generation of Polish gothic metal bands (Artrosis, Moonlight, Delight, Lorien, etc.). Heads up, most (if not all) of this band's music is in Polish, if that's a turn off for you.
But lately my go-tos are Faith and the Muse and Diva Destruction, and I think there's a lot about these groups that should appeal to metalheads, musically (but that might just be me).
Hm right... I'm sorry but I have to address certain things you brought up with some of these bands...
1. Lacrimosa's sound, there's nothing Darkwave about them. They started as a Neoclassical band and then eventually added in some more Gothic Metal songs to accompany their Neoclassical songs. But as I discussed in the video already, Gothic Metal is not Goth music, it's Metal music. So no dice with this one. Not saying they're bad but they aren't Goth and they are actually one of the worst offenders (not them but the fans themselves) wrongly labeling their music Darkwave when it's just Neoclassical.
2. Aesma Daeva I'm sorry but you're wrong about this one and I say this as someone who was a huge fan of them because I love Lori Lewis and she's one of my top 5 favorite female vocalists so I naturally got hooked on this band back then lol. Anyway there's nothing Goth about their music at all. It's straight up Gothic Metal turned Symphonic Rock (their later albums) and some Neoclassical songs thrown in here and there. There is no Industrial or Darkwave at all in their sound and not sure where one would get that impression.
3. The Dreamside actually started as Goth Rock / Ethereal Wave, not Darkwave. They mostly just became a Hard Rock band post 2001 but even Mirror Moon, that album didn't really have any Goth songs in it at all. The Goth scything guitar was pretty much dropped and thus the music was not Goth anymore. Just some Dark Hard Rock.
4. I never heard of Erben der Schopfung so I looked them up and I'm sorry but they don't sound Goth at all. It sounds like Electro / Electro-Rock with some neoclassical & EBM bits thrown in. I don't hear any Darkwave at all. Remember that Darkwave is just Goth guitar with Synth. If you're just hearing Synth, it's not Darkwave and you're most likely listening to a different genre of music. But yeah this band just seems like Electro / EBM and these genres are not Goth genres so I don't think this is a good example to give if you're trying to give "Goth" examples but definitely good for dark music.
5. I hadn't heard Closterkeller in a good while so I did a comparison. Yes their first 3 albums sounded Goth from what I heard but being stretch for time, I skipped ahead to their last album and yeah, that's not a Goth sound anymore so I wouldn't really use them as an example for "Goth" sounding Metal, it just sounds like Hard Rock / Gothic Metal.
@@KaiDecadence oh hi. I got a response!
I realize now that I may have slightly misguided in the post I made, because I was going for groups and artists that exists in an in-between of appeal, but not really in sound (does that make sense?).
I put The Dreamside up mostly because they were my gateway into goth music (Those first 2 albums are really good), and because they did eventually do heavier music (which is also pretty alright). And from what I can tell, they're still involved in the goth scene in the Netherlands.
My point on Closterkeller wasn't really that they're goth-sounding metal, more that they were a goth band that went heavier in their sound (I don't know their modern stuff all that well, but their 2011 Bordeaux is kinda all over the place. Put I'd probably put it in that vague label of "atmospheric rock").
And when it comes to Aesma Daeva, most of their career was symphonic/progressive metal, but those first four songs on Here Lies One... are definitely a different animal. There's some metal in it, but I still wouldn't necessarily call it that. Honestly, I don't think anyone's been able to define it all that well :)
I went back and listened to the stuff by Lacrimosa that I was thinking of, and they were a lot more rock and roll than I remember (it had been a while). Hey quick question (for anyone whose willing to answer), I know their back-catalogue is long, but whenever I think of Lacrimosa as a "goth band and not as a neo-classical-rock-crossover band", I think of their first 2 albums (before they really started doing the neo-classical stuff)... What kind of music is that?
Anyway, I appreciate the response!
@@macabremanscape3226 I get what you were doing but when it comes to Goth, it just doesn't have the luxury to play fast and loose because Goth has been beyond misconstrued over the last 15+ years to where most people don't even know what Goth music is and so for that, I keep things straight forward and to the point because unlike Metal where it's safe to say most people can tell a Metal song when they hear it, you can't really say the same for Goth and it just cannot afford that leniency.
✖ The Dreamside ~ I understand. I just really think it's important to make the distinction that they stopped making Goth music halfway in because this just leads to problems for newcomers who don't know the Goth sound and think that if a band starts out Goth, that makes all their music Goth by association which is absolutely not true (Look at Siouxsie and the Banshees and The Cure as a good example of this lol).
✖ Closterkeller ~ Again, I know what you're meaning but just like The Dreamside, it's very important for newcomers to understand that just because a band starts out Goth doesn't make their whole discography Goth by association if they actually did move on and do a different genre of music. I do suggest listening to a few songs off their 2017 album and you'll see what I mean.
✖ Aesma Daeva ~ I gave those 4 songs a listen again and no that's not Darkwave, it doesn't sound Goth-like at all. "O Death" and "Downvain" sound like straight up Gothic Metal though "Downvain" does have some Electronic bits in it. "Stay" sounds Industrial but Industrial has nothing to do with Goth so uh, yeah... And same with "Disdain", It has Industrial tendency but it's more of an Experimental Rock song. Again nothing Goth-like about it. Dark for sure but not "Goth" sounding.
✖ Lacrimosa ~ Right okay so you're referring to their 1991 album "Angst" and 1992 album "Einsamkeit" and I have the answer for you. So the music that these albums were is an obscure genre called Neue Deutsche Todeskunst also referred to as "New German Death Art". Now this is especially important because this is a genre that has been wrongly called a "Goth" (specifically "Darkwave") type of music when it really isn't. Neue Deutsche Todeskunst is a genre that mixes Classical music (mainly Medieval era and Renaissance era) with sometimes rock and synth elements. The music can sound pretty dark in tone but it has no ties to Goth with the exception of the misappropriation it had in it's homeland Germany that were wrongly labeling that kind of music as "Goth" music when it never was. Honestly Neue Deutsche Todeskunst is it's own music subculture just like Goth, Industrial, and Metal. Just another dark subculture however it's a lot more obscure however another popular Neue Deutsche Todeskunst band is Sopor Aeternus & The Deadly Ensemble, another band that wrongly gets called a Darkwave band when they actually were just a Neue Deutsche Todeskunst band.
@@KaiDecadence cool! Thanks again for the response! I know we've just been going back and forth in long text posts, but I appreciate the discourse. 🙃
@@macabremanscape3226 No problem, I hope the added in info helps!
Loved the video hon🖤🖤
Thanks!
The subculture is fascinating but I just can’t with the hollow echoing sound of vocal processing which (in my opinion) is even more characteristic than a specific guitar setting. All the guitars in these examples sound different but the processing of vocals always shallows the natural sound of a human voice either by adding an effect or by manually manipulating the way you sing to sound more dramatic/caricature like. And the overall wishy washy sound either through reverb or echo is something every single one of tgese example have in common.
Thank you for these videos! I have been a fan of goth rock and darkwave for about 16 years and it has always annoyed me how common it is (among the general people who don't care to find out more) to not know anything about the music and believe that goth is about fashion, or if music is involved at all it can be any band that has a dark aesthetic even if it has nothing in common with the goth sound! How difficult would it be to do some research, a freaking Wikipedia has an article on the Goth subculture and says right in the beginning that it's music based.
Agreed. In this point in time in the first world, there's no reason to not know what goth music when you can look it up.
@KaiDecadence I would have loved to had better (and more) internet 9 years ago, that would have made researching for goth theme evenings at our gothic club club (well not mine i was just the technique nerd that helped out)
I used to be a Goth poser for half of last year in 2021, but I got more into Goth in late July to early August. Now, in February of 2022, I have A LOT of favorite Goth bands. I'm SO happy I'm NOT a poser anymore :D
Glad that you tried out more of the genre and found some bands you enjoyed. :)
Since I've gotten a bit more experience with the music I'm actually quite curious what are your thoughts on Deathrock? And do you think it's goth?
Deathrock is a Goth subgenre yes. A lot of the early Deathrock bands too inspiration from the first wave Goth bands taking the sound but making it sound much faster and/or aggressive. So yes, Deathrock is a Goth sub-genre but it's not to be confused with Horror Punk which is not a Goth sub-genre.
Good overview.
Thanks~
Definitely a cold wave girl
I always love your video Kai🖤. I’m always in search of old and new goth Bands. I grew up listening to my older brother’s music in the 80s. That’s how I got introduced to Siouxie, The Cure and Sisters of Mercy. And then I started to collect goth compilation CDs at the same time I listened to industrial and alternative music in the 90s. And I’m enjoying the new Darkwave scene these days.
Do you know one of the newer bands The Victoriana btw? I think they are well ethereal goth.
Thank you for the compliment, you're too kind! I'm glad you got something out of it. And I have not actually heard of The Victoriana so I did a quick look up and listened to the song ""An Angel, Ephemeral". I really liked the song, definitely added to the playlist haha. Thanks for the heads up!
Kai Decadence I’m glad you like them. I found them out through Drab Majesty actually.
@@monikintin.3377 Ah I see. That does make sense because they do kinda remind me of Drab Majesty :)
Ive always super loved rock and heavy metal and wearing dark clothes with heavy makeup for a couple of years. Its culture and history is deep and I dont wish to disrespect it in any way but I've always loved it. I didn't even know what that specific kind of music is at first but im deicide to give this form of music a chance and to see if its this is subculture of bands I like. Thank you for giving me this information! So far I seem like some of the first/second wave goth and the heavy type
No problem. Be sure to check out my "playlist" section on my channel, I have a bunch of different playlists with some made for goth music and broken up into it's subgenres and eras.
WOAH! thank you this is very helpful! I’ve been calling myself emo for a couple of years and I realized that the label doesn’t match me very well since the only “emo” band I really listen to is mcr. So I thought I’d give Goth music a shot 😳
Fair enough lol.
Scything guitar 3:48 - 4:55
😅 For anyone who needs a repeat of the scything guitar but doesn’t remember the time like me.
Right lol That's just the kind of guitar you should be listening for if you're ever wondering if a song you're listening to is a Goth one.
@@KaiDecadence I’m curious? 😅 I might sound dumb but would (Neoclassical Dark wave) be considered goth music? I’m still new to goth music and have a mostly clear idea of what the goth sound sounds like but I noticed that neoclassical dark sounds quite different to me from the other sub genres of goth music. BTW Love you videos! Lots of love! ❤️
@@MesmerizingEyesXOXO That's a good question and the answer to that is no. And more importantly, "Neoclassical Darkwave" is not a a real genre. There's a funny history behind how such a non existent gente became a thing but the important thing to take away from this is that it's not a real subgenre. Bands like Nox Arcana, Dark Sanctuary, and The Midnight Syndicate for example that get labeled as that are really just neoclassical bands and neoclassical music is not goth music, it's classical music that's made in the 20th century.
@@KaiDecadence :D Thanks! Have a great day!
@@MesmerizingEyesXOXO No problem :)
Thank you for this video, Kai! Also what was the name of the song playing at the 1:28 mark? I looked through the songs in the description but I might have missed it.
Thanks! The song is just royalty free music you can find on the UA-cam Audio library~
Thank you for all of rhw information!!! ^^
I understand that every music genre is defined by certain musical aspects, but at the same time if Goth isn't defined at all by it's lyrics then why is so much of it dark? As I've been looking into Goth music the lyrical content is typically dark in some way. It's all over the place. So I'm thinking that perhaps this should be considered as an actual defining factor of the genre. Even the fashion and makeup seems to be a staple of the visual side of the genre. Would like to hear others thoughts on this. 🤔
Hey there so to answer your question, the reason why the lyrical content is not a defining thing in what makes Goth music what it is is because any genre of music can have dark lyrics. Take genres like Black Metal, Symphonic Metal, and Industrial. Dark and morbid lyrics are pretty common in these music styles and plenty of well-known songs can have dark lyrics like for example, songs like "Semi-Charmed Life" by Third Eye Blind (it's about drug addiction), "Monster" by Lady Gaga, "True Blood" by Justin Timberlake, "Disturbia" by Rihanna, "Devil Pray" by Madonna, and "Disarm" by Smashing Pumpkins. Heck most of Radiohead's music are depressing and/or dark lol. The point I'm trying to make is that dark lyrics can (and is) used in all kinds of music that involve singing and that's why it's not something that Goth has or ever had a stranglehold on. And honestly I've heard so much Goth music now and you'd be surprised that not all the lyrics are as dark as you'd think, I find that a lot of the lyrics tend to be dreamy or existential. So I hope that you understand this. This is why for most genres of music, the things that define it is the way the instruments are used and Goth is a genre of music that has it's own way for crafting the sound it has that makes it unique.
As for fashion, It's true that there is a look that is stereotyped with the music(which has also been highly misconstrued tbh) but still, it's not the most important factor and that it's always about the music first and foremost, that's what a "music-based subculture" is.
I've been dressing up in black clothes since I was 17. The radio station I listened to had a ton of goth bands. Bauhaus, The garden of delight, Joy Division, Funhouse, Ghost dance and dreamtime just to name a few.
Bauhaus is the only goth band you listed, type o negative and evanescence are not goth bands.
@@KaiDecadence oops. Sorry. My memory is a bit foggy.
@@scottylewis8124 no problem
@@KaiDecadence my pet peeve is that when people look at me in black clothing, they think that I creep them out. It doesn't make me a freak, it's my decision. Ugh. It sucks living with people who don't understand.
I actually really love Nickelback. XD, I even used some of their music for the intro to a rant.
Nice work. There were even a few songs you mentioned I have yet to add to my playlists, so thank you for that. I have considered making some music related content for my own channel for some time now, since I vent about posers so much then go back to talking of how much I love to paint. Hypocritical? Perhaps. Droll? Without question.
Though perhaps not as droll as for one subgenre the first track played by you (a black person) was Romeo's Distress. ...How did you react, when first you heard that?
I didn't hear the song until I was a little older. I think I was 22 but at that point, I kinda remembered that with some old things, it's important to look at context. In short, I didn't think Rozz Williams was meaning it literally and that he didn't like Black people, it was just more of a shock value thing and a critique of southern baptist ideal. At least from what I've read anyway. And if he truly felt that way, I think he would've included more lyrics like the in his other songs which he didn't. I just consider the song a product of the past.
I like She Past Away but can't get into other groups at all. For me the issue with most groups are the voices. I just don't like the style of singing (even newer groups sound very 80s to me, and thats just not my style 🙁). She Past Away has a completely different singing style from anyone else I've heard. Does anyone have suggestions for other Goth groups with similar vocal styles? I also like their instrumentation the best.
Well She Past Away, most of their stuff is Darkwave so I would suggest trying more Darkwave bands. I don't know any other bands where the singer sounds like Volkan Caner but I'd suggest...
- Drab Majesty
- Clan of Xymox
- This Cold Night
- La Scaltra
If therez one goth band I seriously love iz Drab Majesty! They give off a gothic futuristic 80z sound, and I actually love that.👽💛🖤❤💙💀🕸
Intresting video. Haven't listened to Lycia in years, I always thought they were "Darkwave." Would you consider Saigon blue rain and Linea aspera music to be goth as well? If so What style of goth music would you label them?
Lycia has done both darkwave and ethereal wave. From what I've heard, that's what they mostly alternate between. I haven't heard a lot of Saigon Blue, but from the few I've heard, they seem to do darkwave, but I need to hear more before I make a definite answer, lol. And it's been a while since I've heard Linea Aspera, but last I heard them, they did goth music, so I would put them there.
I'm a huge goth and post punk fan, awesome to see another gender critical fan. There aren't many of us out there, at least, ones willing to admit it. Saying something is social suicide. I'm not brave enough to say anything IRL. Since goth is so gender non-conforming, there have always been a lot of trans people, mostly AGPs, closeted or not, back in the 90s (not to say gender non conformity or goth is a fetish, sometimes I have an Annie Lennox look). Lots of modern "goths" don't really care about music, just tacky fashion and BDSM (ugh). Your outfits are fierce.
Christian Death was the band that got me into Goth. Also, are you thinking about doing a non goth confessions video?
They are a pretty neat band haha. And no not really, I find that tag video kinda ridiculous because back when it was made as it's a pretty old tag (from like 2012), it was during the time when people were seriously thinking that Goth was about the whole "Goth mindset" (a huge Pet Peeve of mine, it's not a mindset) and any talk of actual Goth music got you called an "elitist". So it's not really a time I like thinking back on. Though I may do a video talking about the non-Goth music I like because I do have a lot of those lol.
Hey kai, what do you think about death in june? They get labeled a neofolk band but i met many goths that still consider them a goth band even despite the Controversy. And also what do you think of blutengel's music? Some people called them "darkwave" but i don't hear it.
So Death In June, they really are Neofolk and they don't make goth music. I think the reason why people can get confused aside from not knowing what Neofolk music is is that maybe they get confused by their early work that was more post-punk focused but even then, post-punk music is not goth music. The other possibility is some people might hear their songs from their 2022 album "Nada-Ized!" thinking it was Darkwave music when it was actually just Synthwave music. All in all though, no, they aren't a goth band.
As for Blutengel, they are not darkwave. They make Futurepop and Synth Pop music with the occasional EBM song. Blutengel were actually one of the first bands that got misappropriated as "darkwave" music in the late 90s, early 00s because of the misinformation on what darkwave music actually was because of how some goth clubs (mostly in Europe) were turning into Industrial clubs and importing more EBM and Futurepop music into their mixes and people mistaking it for darkwave music. Anyway no, Blutengel are not darkwave, it's mostly futurepop and synth-pop music.
You do a really great job with your content! keep up the good work.🌚🖤👻☠️🕷️🕸️🦇😷🙏🏼
Thanks!
Do you consider the birthday massacre goth? It is labeled as Darkwave, but it's also labled as Industrial rock and it's confusing.
The Birthday Massacre is a band that often gets mislabeled as "Darkwave" when they aren't. They actually make Synth Rock music with Industrial elements in it. Pretty much a hybrid style but the predominant sound structure they utilize is Synth Rock.
@@KaiDecadence So synth rock is an Industrial rock genre? If that's the case, I was hoping to hear more female lead goth bands that sound more second wave. Any recommendations for second wave or death rock? Sorry I've been goth for a year, and I am still new to this.
@@natgom7800 Synth-Rock music comes from Electronic music so no, it doesn't come from Industrial Rock. It's just that The Birthday Massacre incorporates some Industrial elements (the digitized sounding guitar riffs that are heavier typically found in Industrial Rock) into their style of Synth-Rock.
As for second wave goth bands with a female vocalist, I'd recommend All About Eve, Dead Souls Rising, The Shroud, Autumn, and Seraphim Gothique. For Deathrock, Eva O's solo work and Christ Vs Warhol
@@KaiDecadence Awesome thanks so much!!
Beside the guitar, the bassline is more like the lead of the band, often being one with the drum or the lead riff, Simon Gallup for example.
Yeah the bass is another key part of the sound but ultimately the scything guitar is what plays the most prominent role and gives Goth what it is. Without it, it would just be post-punk because the bass was especially prominent in that genre.
Hello Kai, I've used to watch your videos but haven't watched all of them. Im now catching up with your videos.
I got a few questions and would really appreciate your input since you're a seasoned goth and just a intellectual in general.
Can you explain to me why Victorian Goth / Gothic Victorian isn't a goth style? Can you explain why Gothic literature isn't goth. I also met people who say cold wave music isn't a goth sub-genre when goth wikipedia says cold wave is a sub genre of goth, and we all know we can't believe everything wikipedia says.
Hey there. Yeah sure, I actually planned on making a video about that subject but it'll be awhile so I'll give some cliff notes.y
> 𝐂𝐚𝐧 𝐲𝐨𝐮 𝐞𝐱𝐩𝐥𝐚𝐢𝐧 𝐭𝐨 𝐦𝐞 𝐰𝐡𝐲 𝐕𝐢𝐜𝐭𝐨𝐫𝐢𝐚𝐧 𝐆𝐨𝐭𝐡 / 𝐆𝐨𝐭𝐡𝐢𝐜 𝐕𝐢𝐜𝐭𝐨𝐫𝐢𝐚𝐧 𝐢𝐬𝐧'𝐭 𝐚 𝐠𝐨𝐭𝐡 𝐬𝐭𝐲𝐥𝐞? + > 𝐂𝐚𝐧 𝐲𝐨𝐮 𝐞𝐱𝐩𝐥𝐚𝐢𝐧 𝐰𝐡𝐲 𝐆𝐨𝐭𝐡𝐢𝐜 𝐥𝐢𝐭𝐞𝐫𝐚𝐭𝐮𝐫𝐞 𝐢𝐬𝐧'𝐭 𝐠𝐨𝐭𝐡?
The reason for this is because first of all, Gothic literature predates Goth by centuries. So then you may ask "Well what about when Goth did become a thing? Wasn't it influenced by Gothic literature?" And the answer to that is that the overall influence of the music was rooted in post-punk. It's true that some bands did take inspiration from gothic literature for the subject matter of their songs but inspiration/influence =/= "same as", lots of music is inspired by gothic literature but that doesn't make these songs "goth".
The problem I tend to see is that people think that "goth" is an abbreviation for "gothic" and that jus
t isn't the case. I mean think about the phrase "gothic literature", it was never called "goth literature. Same thing with "gothic architecture", it was never called "goth architecture"". The phrase "goth" was not used until the music genre became a thing. in 1979 and exploded in the 80s. And finally to really drive this home. Think about how many goths you know personally that read gothic literature? And I don't mean just reading Dracula, Frankenstein, and Interview with the Vampire, I'm talking people who actually keep up to date with the genre and may even go to book clubs or book opening specials surround gothic literature. For example, "The Secrets of Hartwood Hall" is a recent gothic literature novel that came out last year, how many goths have you seen talking about it? Your answer to this will be the reason why gothic literature just isn't a necessity in the scene.
Also "to quickly touch up on "Victorian Goth", the reason why it's not a "goth style" is because this so called style didn't come from the goth scene. There has been no goth band that actually dressed in this style. I've seen some people mistake Romantic Goth looks as "Victorian" but the truth is they aren't Victorian, "Victorian" has a certain look to it and usually with "romantic goth", it tends to take more ethereal aesthetic and mixes it with some goth fashion elements. UA-camrs Angela Benedict and Victoria Fashen are the best examples of what "Romantic Goth" looks like. But Idigress, I've seen people confuse looks like that as "Victorian" when it really isn't.
And finally when you do see a look that is called "Victorian goth" and the person is dressed in an accurate Victorian style via frilly high necks, with the neck cameo brooch, paired with a corset worn underneath the top (or over but usually under), and the crinoline skirts (with/without bustles) but the outfit is all in black, this is still not a "goth" look because well, where are the goth elements? The color black is not a unique "goth" element (lots of fashion styles uses black). And again, just look back at the bands, again no goth bands actually dressed in this kind of style.
The reality is that "Victorian goth" is not "Goth", it's just Victorian fashion but in black. And this isn't to say a goth can't like Victorian fashion but it's just just that just because a goth likes it, doesn't make it goth by association.
I hope this all makes sense. Again, I plan on making a video about this where I'll go more in depth but hopefully this short summary helps.
> 𝐈'𝐯𝐞 𝐚𝐥𝐬𝐨 𝐦𝐞𝐭 𝐩𝐞𝐨𝐩𝐥𝐞 𝐰𝐡𝐨 𝐬𝐚𝐲 𝐜𝐨𝐥𝐝 𝐰𝐚𝐯𝐞 𝐦𝐮𝐬𝐢𝐜 𝐢𝐬𝐧'𝐭 𝐚 𝐠𝐨𝐭𝐡 𝐬𝐮𝐛-𝐠𝐞𝐧𝐫𝐞 𝐰𝐡𝐞𝐧 𝐠𝐨𝐭𝐡 𝐰𝐢𝐤𝐢𝐩𝐞𝐝𝐢𝐚 𝐬𝐚𝐲𝐬 𝐜𝐨𝐥𝐝 𝐰𝐚𝐯𝐞 𝐢𝐬 𝐚 𝐬𝐮𝐛 𝐠𝐞𝐧𝐫𝐞 𝐨𝐟 𝐠𝐨𝐭𝐡, 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐰𝐞 𝐚𝐥𝐥 𝐤𝐧𝐨𝐰 𝐰𝐞 𝐜𝐚𝐧'𝐭 𝐛𝐞𝐥𝐢𝐞𝐯𝐞 𝐞𝐯𝐞𝐫𝐲𝐭𝐡𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐰𝐢𝐤𝐢𝐩𝐞𝐝𝐢𝐚 𝐬𝐚𝐲𝐬.
Yes I've seen this myself with Coldwave and the thing is that Coldwave is a very weird style because of it's origins.. It also came from post-punk music but from my understanding, there are two styles of "Coldwave", the first is the style that utilizes the elements of first wave goth music which was more post-punk influenced with more inclusion of snythesizer and it originated from Eastern Europe & France. Something else to note that does make it confusing is that some early Eastern European and French bands that were making Synth Pop music also got labeled as "Coldwave" but it's an inaccurate term as the music they played were just that, synth pop Just something I felt should be mentioned lol
Anyway the other style which was briefly done in the United States and happened by coincidence to have the same name of "coldwave" was rooted in Industrial. The later though, it's hardly done anymore and it's been that way for a long while now.
It really just depends on the song but more often than not the coldwave being done today is the first iteration of it which is rooted in goth. I hope this helped!
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Me, 47 years of deejaying, all genres, but with "Goth" since it all started and wasn't even called that. I Very much like this video but, quick corrections and heads of for all new to the genre: post punk was really all 80s because Punk was peaking at its birth in the mid 70s. Some even have said the "punk" term actually was even coined for some underground garage band rock as far back as 1966 because those bands put out one obscure single and let it go to their heads thinking they were the Stones or the Beatles. Post Punk was just a new term in recent years because it was called New Wave back in the 80s, and since it's not new anymore "post punk" kicked in - a bad term anyway since Punk Rock and Hard Core never really ended or died. The original Sisters of Mercy first releases were actually 1981-82 with "Alice" and "Anaconda" not 1985 when the new band formed. Joy Division was actually a Punk Band before they and New order were deemed as Gothic. Sex Gang Children around 1982-1983 was one of the first bands to rock the Goth look as we best know it now and was quite distinguishable from the Exploited's hard core punk look at the time. Bow Wow Wow had a Goth/Punk style and sound (1981) until they remade "I Want Candy" which trough them into the main stream. Early U2 was also considered Gothic until they crossed over as well. Thanks for reading my add-ons for the history. Always lots to love and talk about with true music oriented Goths. These are just some fun facts nobody ever talks about.
Just curious: Do Goths have strict adherence to Goth music genres? Or can you prefer Goth but still enjoy other music? Or does this mean you're not Goth?
Not that I wanna be Goth. I don't like being part of any subculture. My mom was country girl growing up and my dad was rocker/metalhead. I don't like being grouped into anything myself.
I'm not sure if you watched till the end because I answer that question lol. But anyway. NO, you don't have to listen to JUST 'Goth music to be Goth. You can listen to other kinds of genres of music and it's not a big deal at all. However if you don't listen to Goth music among the non Goth music you like then you wouldn't be a Goth because a Goth is someone who listens to Goth music. I mean ask yourself this. Do Metalheads only listen to Metal music? Of course not. Well Goth is no different. Because at the end of the day what you would think of someone who called themselves a "metalhead" but they didn't listen to Metal music, they just liked to wear Metallica and Slayer shirts but don't listen to the music at all and just like it for the aesthetic and thus, that's what makes them a Metalhead. You see how ridiculous that sounds?
I'm definitely on the electronic side, so i tend to lean towards darkwave, coldwave and some ethereal. hehe
Darkband? Do you mean Darkwave? haha Nonetheless, yeah I'm kinda the same :)
@@KaiDecadence oh good lord haha, yes totally a typo