How the American Left Lost Our Trust - Nellie Bowles | The Remnant w/ Jonah Goldberg
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- Опубліковано 4 чер 2024
- The wonderful Nellie Bowles joins Jonah to discuss her new book, Morning After the Revolution: Dispatches from the Wrong Side of History. Score some Remnant bingo points for a conversation on topics including (but certainly not limited to) the “Abolish the Police” movement, the hypocrisy of progressivism, the importance of skeptics, and memory-holing.
To get show notes:
thedispatch.com/podcast/remna...
#leftism #2020 #journalism #politics #conservative
As much as I enjoy the articles at The Dispatch, Nellie Bowles has THE BEST column on the internet, namely TGIF on The Free Press. I haven't had time to read her book yet, but I have it, and it's on my to-do list. Looking forward to Jonah's conversation with her.
I really appreciated all the incredible insights I got from this, and most of it made a lot of sense to me. The part about COVID, not so much. I was a Chicago City Council member during that time period and I remember when the beaches and parks were closed. The witnessing of large gatherings of people partying together and not wearing masks was what led up to closing these areas. Our hospitals' ICUs were full and we were panicked about more people needing ventilators to breathe when they got sick. During the protests that broke out after George Floyd was killed, we all fully understood those protest marches would increase the spread of COVID, but we also understood people were too angry to care.
Our public health department used objective parameters (# of people testing positive, # of people dying in hospitals, # of hospital beds available, etc) to determine when public areas, businesses, and schools could open up. We wanted the schools to open up sooner, but it was the public school's union that refused to have teachers go back to the classroom. Mayors called one another for feedback because they also understood the pushback they got from the community that would cause more chaos and they wanted ideas from others about how to address a situation with very angry residents.
We were all scrambling for rules based on a disease that we knew little about, but it was believed acting out of precaution was required given the # of people dying. I remember people insisting on knowing the origin of COVID. At the time, I frankly didn't care... I was too focused on people not coming down with the disease.
Jonah, please straighten the picture behind you.
I dont understand why The Dispatch get more viwers/listeners. They are smart and funny, and have such a great vibe with each other.
The reason people hate to hear that people aren't naturally good, is because they are a person and that means that they are not good. The prideful person cannot stand the thought that they might be sinners like the rest of humanity. It is unconscionable, because it is so clear that they are made of finer clay lol
Good point. The Yang to your Yin is that righteous revolutionaries who focus their rage at moderates fail to appreciate that other people want to make the best of the short time the have on Earth, and therefore will have no patience for demands to de-center themselves or shut up.
the belief that people are bad therefore we need police to keep the order is a tired, hackneyed frankly obscene quasi-religious belief held by closet fascists. all the data show that police make everything worse, especially to the poor, non-white and otherwise disenfranchised. entire tomes have been written showing again and again police cannot be reformed. the vile minneapolis pd where george floyd was murdered is undeniable proof of this fact.
"We can't win campaigns by saying get rid of the police"
What about the safety and well-being of the PEOPLE?
Tells you all you need to know...
If that's her with pregnant brain, she's doing pretty damn good. Great guest.
Jon Stewart, Stephen Colbert, and John Oliver also amplify the movement.
@thenunt just your mother's
the idea that old rich white men contracted to the biggest media conglomerates in the world (comcast, warner bros & VIACOM) are somehow counterculture or against status quo astonishes me. Stewart and Colbert are both in their sixties and fully invested in the system that enriches them. they all hold the same core values. white rule by force.
As an unemployed man in his late 50s, who doesn’t have the luck in America to claim a status of hypoagency, it became very painful to live through this neo-Gnostic Revolution (2013 - 2023). I would pick up The NY Times and see the words “white supremacy” over and over. I stopped reading The NY Times completely five years ago. Imagine how painful it would be to either of you to see the words “Jewish Supremacism” repeatedly in newsprint or in Big Media.
The institutions failed out of a refusal to stand up to shaming, whether the shaming had a basis or not. A shaming culture will eat itself alive.
With regard to Trump, he was and remains an old style NY liberal. Think through how he really sees abortion, gun control, gay normalization, Social Security, etc. He isn’t far from George McGovern. Without Operation Crossfire Hurricane, which was 100x worse than Watergate, I would never have voted for him. Because the FBI and Intel agencies have not been held accountable, I will hold my nose and vote (again) for the Orange Monster.
what are you getting at vance? JRB said white supremacy the greatest threat to america. did you not see the jan 6 riot? have you not read fbi michael germans grim assessments?
What a great discussion. So tired of having these topics being dismissed as MAGA propaganda. Scary times.
The reason you think Trump is evil is because the media told you so.
A Convicted Rapist-Fraud-Liar Who Cheated On His Wife With A Porn Star Is Unfit For Any Office Especially President.
Great interiew thanks
No police= no government, no socialism.
?????????????
@@geoffreynhill2833 try enforcing taxation without police…
@@garyandsandrahamlin872 Try having anything but chaos without police. It would become intolerable very quickly.
@@christianman73 you have no evidence for that.
Plus, people might hire private police instead of standing around and doing nothing to protect themselves.
@@garyandsandrahamlin872 There have been areas in the U.S. where the experiment of having no police was tried, such as the "CHAZ" (Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone) experiment a few years ago in one part of Seattle. Within three weeks, it was an utter fiasco, and police officers had to be called in to keep things from degenerating even more. Therefore, yes, I do have evidence for what I am saying. It is *you* who has no evidence that abolishing of police would *actually work and be sustainable* for any length of time.
You dont have to say people are bad. But at least 10% of people are bad
where do you get that number? source or you made that up
Ho can students hold in their head that cyberbullying is a huge issue and all people are inherently good and there is no danger?
So the sign to Boston doesn't have to mske it to Boston unless you're Michael Moore.
that starting analogy of her being a hat was a bit strange.
Who the hell thought Candace Owens was part of the ' intellectual dark web'?!!
a subliterate?
Great podcast!
Great video
The only bad thing about this is the thumbnail almost gives the impression that Nellie was the author of that awful piece! :) But great podcast!
Fun podcast!
i made it 30 minutes before giving up. i have no context for who either of these two individuals are however there appear to be a few shared core beliefs that unite them:
- the united states is wonderful, prosperous and safe
- the united states was not founded on (nor does it continue to be) racial superiority and exploitative of non-whites
- police are necessary and keep us safe/people are bad and must be kept in line through state violence
- academics and youth are conspiring to bring down the status quo which is objectionable
unfortunately the data is quite clear and contradicts these beliefs. for example the guest mentioned george floyd. minneapolis pd was subject to years of progressive reform for years before derek chauvin murdered him. it was the last straw after years of failure which included the disbanded of the corrupt gang task force and police shooting another officer in the back (he lived). no amount of additional funded or racial sensitivity training will change police culture which overwhelmingly targets the disenfranched, destitute and mentally ill. i must reiterate: the police make everything *worse*. any number of books and research will demonstrate this conclusively. i suggest the color of law by r. rothstein, the terror factory by trevor aaronson, slavery by another name by d. blackmon and an american experience: the eugenics crusade by pbs films just to name a few. this uncritical gladhanding serves no meaningful purpose outside of selling a few extra books. the host must challenge these assertions are ask for specific example not accept broad generalisations that are honestly easily falsifiable. good luck to you both.
I have a lot of respect for the work Fauci did during the pandemic, but it blows my mind that while testifying before Congress he's still clinging to this BS fish market explanation and not that the virus was leaked by the lab due to poor security protocols. I don't get it--I assume he's just too proud to say "I was wrong." It's a serious issue, we've got the second most powerful country in the world with a completely opaque government and who's to say this doesn't happen again in the near future. It's scary.
If you want the Q-Anon theory, he might have stakes in the lab that leaked. Which I don't know is real or not. On one hand, it is Q-Anon. On the other, it doesn't make sense that Fauci would admit he was wrong about some things, but not this...
It goes beyond that. The logical inference is that there are multiple labs around the world carrying on this or other types of retroviral research. Given that humans are fallible it's only a matter of time until another industrial accident occurs. If it occurs in places where being opaque is the norm we're back facing this again.
@@donpietruk1517 Bio Labs in the US are equipped to handle infectious diseases. We have no idea what China is equipped to handle.
@@Beerman111980 Oh I agree. We also don't really know in which other countries this type of research is actually taking place and what their capabilities are.
How many capitol steps have they stormed?
They took over a part of Seattle and got 2 black children killed. Populism is a cancer. Quit simping for it.
Sam Harris is one of the "good ones"? Hahaha, that is beyond ridiculous. Stefan Molyneux is definitely better. Kirk does suck though
Do we care about peer review now?
don't you think its knd of silly to take one article claiming to speak on behalf of everyone, proposing a hypothetical, and turning that into your entire veiew of what the left believes is the definition of reactionary? this is the kinds of silly behaviour that makes me stick with the left even when i disgaree with an indivdual proposal because we don't get these kinds of silly bad faith reactions that make people change my entire politics.
I'm with you Jim.
You're literally pulling a bad faith reaction assuming the one example in this podcast episode is her entire reason for shifting her view. The one thing you cry about her doing, you are doing yourself lol.
“How an opinion piece broke my very small brain, and made me start carrying water for authoritarians”
And the current regime isn't authoritarian?
@@donpietruk1517 brain dead comment
lol nobody takes leftists seriously. That's why we keep them at the kiddie table when it comes to politics. Their logic is too broken, thus why they flounder around in opinion pieces. Nellie is smart to distance herself from those irrational people. She's not "carrying water" for anybody by calling out the crazies on her side. That's you being an ideologue.
accurate
Congratulations, the number of strawmen slain here is truly impressive. If you dig deep, I think you can find more pressing issues that are troubling our democratic republic.
They spend a good amount of time on this, too, sir. Especially if you watch literally any of the Dispatch's other content.
Classic "whataboutism":
"Don't look at the profound illiberalism on my side. Look over there at the other profound illiberalism. It's much more troubling. Take my word for it."
Genuine "small-d" democrats call out illiberalism wherever they find it. When it comes to illiberalism, I see no difference between woke anti-democrats and MAGA anti-democrats. Neither of you will be satisfied until you've burned down every aspect of the United States as it existed until about 2014. What a plague both sides have been on the Republic.
I look forward to your podcast addressing these issues.
Culture is emergent from a people, the appeal to univeralism is embedded within a mono-theistic, disproportionately protestant, form of law developed and embodied by a people. Expecting its abstraction to be embodied by another people is like expecting their way of being to be embodiable to you - possible but an intergenerational commitment by both parties to integrate into one or create and entirely new ethnogenesis, not a fleeting project. If segregation - my preference is [bio]-cultural (national traditionalism) - is not a de jure concern it will become a de facto concern, with far less transparent and mutually beneficial solutions which will only reinforce hostile forms of ethnocentrism in a 0 sum politic
Drives me a little crazy, that some (feels like a lot) of the analysis here, engaged in something similar to the analysis being criticized. If you don't get your scientific analysis from talk media, the opinion section etcetera... You would at no point have concluded that "Lab Leak" was almost certainly correct or incorrect, regardless of what partisan culture was going on about.
At least I didn't, and I wasn't living under a rock or uncurious. I just dismissed arguments that focused on racism, geopolitics, and nationalism as ridiculous and of very little significance one way or another as to the reality.
Others making some bad arguments aren't evidence for or against, they're just clouding the analysis.
Don't misunderstand, I'm not saying we shouldn't object to poor arguments. Just that they do little to support the contrary POV.
Example: I recently heard some smart people proclaiming the idea that aliens buit the ancient pyramids was racist.
Seems to me that's an incredibly silly and unnecessary argument. However that such a silly argument was made doesn't make it any more likely, or unlikely, that aliens were involved. 🤪🙃🫣
BTW... The current "article" in the NYT is in the editoral section, and makes a strong assertion in the title, but provides little more than surface evidence of plausibility. Something of that order should have been permitted long ago, and the moralized attacks against it were wrong. In the end, both just clouded complexity of getting true understanding, when there are so many incentives to obscure.
To deny that lab leak wasn't even a possibility, if not a decent probability, though was always equally unreasonable. If you take into account how the Chinese government typically processes any potential negative events to outright dismiss lab leak was unreasonable.