Ciao Marco... da lassù non badare a chi ti vuole degradare... sei stato grande... dopo di te le montagne sono orfane. Noi amanti del ciclismo ti ameremo sempre. Ciao
If you cycle across italy you will still see his picture in small towns miles from anywhere, on signs for bicycle shops as far away as on mount Etna. He is like a god now, living in human memory with great love. I saw him myself in 1998 at Le Tour in Dublin.
@k c........Marco Pantani is my hero and all-time favourite rider. I too was lucky enough to see him [in the flesh] several times. And like you, I saw him in Dublin during the opening stages of the 1998 TDF [I actually rode alongside Marco and his Mercatone-Uno team and even chatted with him briefly!] I also saw him in the 2000 TDF near the summit on the ascent of the brutal Mont Ventoux - when that a-hole Armstrong claimed to have 'gifted' him the stage. Pantani actually rode brilliantly that day - he was repeatedly dropped but managed to get back on every time before attacking on the Ventoux. Despite Armstrong's arrogance, Pantani totally deserved the victory that day!
@@thesoultwins72 Pantani was addicted to cocaine and well off top form that tour. Still a match for Armstrong (who had a blood transfusion prior to the stage) on Ventoux and dropped him on Courchavel.
Shame that his fellow countrymen and media harassed him relentlessly in his own hometown which lead to his downward spiral. Then in his death he was revered as a god and worshipped him, when the same people were shouting at his face calling him a disgrace. The people who killed him suddenly supported him when he was already gone. Disgusting.
Thank you for providing these videos. I was recently banned from cycling news for simply asking questions. The thing that bothers me is we are supposed to pretend doping went the way of the dodo. I honestly don't care if riders are doping; I just have an issue with the attempts to smother the conversation.
doping is like technology, if you can't easily see it it's because it's more subtle, better designed and more powerful than it used to be, nothing in cycling has changed to allow for doping to be eradictaed. It's no surprise that with the covid restrictions on testing out of competition that athletic performance has taken a huge leap forward with an unprecedented crop of young talent.
@Dominic Calitz As are the shills who pretend it isn't. Back in the day, the sub-forum called The Clinic was the go to place to get information from insiders about the culture of doping. I understand from a business perspective why they sic their mods on anyone who raises the subject, but it's so obvious what's going on. They never answered repeated questions asking if they ever felt the weight of Pro Tour teams telling them to put a lid on it. I know the answer to that question, but they still refuse to answer it publicly.
When you have a proven corruption (as now in UK politicians the totally lopsided voting system that doesn’t represent the wishes of the Electorate) honesty and real democracy are as niullified asin anyTotalitarian Submissive State China Russia N Korea Iran Saudi Arabia etc So it’s not a surprise that the UCI deliberately allows wrong doing to dominate its policies and administration in order to protect a sham for decades! If one reads Russell Mockriidge Biograhy My World on Wheels his honesty shines through as he related the Professionals world of Competitive Track and Road Racing His naivety is there to see as it was for many of us that included Robinson Simpson Hoban when they stumbled into the reality of the established Drugs Culture Barry Hoban describes in the 1950s Known to the World Governing Body the UCI through their Dr Dumas who had intimate experience with drugs and their effect on riders for years before Mallejac nearly died on Ventoux the same mountain that Tom Simpson died on as the ignored Dr Dumas tried to revive Simpson The UCI failed hundreds of Simpsons who died The UCI also failed in its basic duty to protect the integrity and wellbeing of those thousands they demand fees from under false empty of substance rules its self ignored ignores since it founded itself and now pontificates from a Swiss HQ paid for from I’ll gotten gains It’s a scandal that should be exposed now
exactly. i dont care if the pro riders are doping. it is part of the game and in any pro sport. people pretent to be blind and deaf now, but in 20 years they will trash the riders of today, too.
Pantani the greatest climber ever. So sad how all these guys from late 90s early 2000s all ended up in a dark place . Meanwhile People still think indurain was clean and Riis gets to be a team manager
Indurain was probably as clean as the first 50 riders 😂 He was never accused of doping but his name was mentioned in some documents related to Dr Eeufemiano Fuentes.
I first watched your videos when you talked about the Canyon Inflite and thought you only made some reviews on stuff you bought, but man this is great stuff, please keep it coming ! 👍
About Pantani cleaness you can read data contained in the Conconi's Dblab file. You will find that Pantani's percentage increase of hemtocrit is less than that of some racers and similar to that of other racers. You can find all these informations in an article by Eugenio Capodacqua, an italian journalist who was never kind with Pantani. Pantani was gifted, that's all. Regarding Pantani's eatlier years and exceptional physical skills, on the net you can find many interviews of Roncucci who was his director when he was amateur. Ivano Fanini too, although he blamed Pantani for doping, recognizes his superiority.
Thanks i enjoy your casts. Imagine if Marco had not have had those bad accidents how good his palmeras would have been. Just his return to cycling was a miracle..
To me Marco was the best of the best. Every cyclist in the tour in those years doped, some did it better than others, but doping doesn't make you better, it allows the athlete to train harder more often, so they do more work than those they beat. Marco was so very talented and didn't deserve to be hounded the way he was. It is so sad that he felt so alone at the end and took a way out of the torment as he did.
Unfortunately he was "ideal" candidate for UCI and pseudo anti-doping organizations to show whole world how good they are... I am much of the opininion he wouldn't fall into depression so quickly. They simply wanted to break Marco by making him automate villain in press. This what they needed at that time although all they knew most of the peloton was doped. 52% of hematocrit was enough to punish Marco but there were no symmetry when it comes to other riders. Investigation just focused on him. Rest would continue to dope as usual.
"....but doping doesn't make you better...." If cycling is a cardio vascular sport where climbing mountains is decisive, and EPO, CERA increase your haematocrit thereby increasing a rider's capacity to climb at threshold for longer, then yes it does make you better.
These were not the "dark age of cycling". The dark age is now when no one draws any interest in cycling. By the way the so called " doping" continues somewhat in every sport. Pantani and Armstrong brought cycling into the spotlight. Every time they squared off we knew sit would be a battle royal. Not so today.
The conclusion is that spectators don't care whether riders are doped or not as long as they create emotions. Attracted audience brings sponsors and media. Teams want to keep sponsors promising results so they are pushing riders to their limits. Everything works fine till all of the sudden some athlete is suspected. Then it is easy to express kind of indignation and say "how he dared to dope..."
@@cyril4046 doping it is not only substances. Even in chess when there were FIDE tournaments players "doped" by using chess-engines (eg. installed on cell phones) like Stockfish. Now there are special gates (like on airports) detecting devices and also toilets are monitored. As you can see sky is the limit. When it comes to combat sports I suppose still testosterone is the base. In endurance sports athletes may benefit from TUE (Therapeutic Use of Exemptions) and can legally apply prescribed drugs enhancing breathing like cortisteroids. For shaving grams and stay lean clenbuterol was used but now salbutamol or cortisone. Of course blood doping is still possible with EPO microdosing but this is difficult and requires special orchestration.
Creatine? Hmm strange... Anyway 44/26 gearing impressive. Marco was not a high-cadence rider so such gearing might fit him best. Similarly to Jan Ullrich but totally opposite to Lance Armstrong who was able to spin with 120 rpm.
"2 riders used as scapegoats"? Do you even know what "scapegoat" means? A scapegoat is an innocent thing, a sacrifice that is burdened with the sins of others. It may be reasonable to call Pantani a scapegoat but the other was no such thing. He was NOT innocent, in fact he was the main protagonist, innovator AND beneficiary of the sport's drug fuelled mafia protection racket. Riders (like Pantani) died to protect his resurrection myth/fairy tale because it drove UCI's American market expansion. He wasn't a scapegoat (lol) if anything he was the most righteous but unfortunately belated prosecution of the era, that if done much sooner could have saved the lives of many riders just like Pantani. So don't sully the flawed Pirate's name by hitching your crap hero to Pantani's victimisation, instead remember who, why and how threats like Pantani were singled out, and the price they paid so the naive would buy into sports greatest fraud. At least show some respect for the departed, unlike the american fraud who equivocates his (insufficient) punishment with the ultimate price others paid.
@@space.youtube he was the main innovater?? Your delusional if you think Armstrong was the innovater its been an evolution since the beginnings of any sort of competition. And continues to evolve.
@@geoffreymccann2841 lol, it's like you have no sense of irony Edit: It's hilarious that you originally intended to challenge the "instigator" characterisation but reconsidered, backtracking to argue "innovator" instead. You give yourself away lol Either way you're on very shaky ground.
@@space.youtube I'm curious how am I on shaky ground? Unlike you I don't have any hero's. And how is it allowed to potentially call Pantani a scapegoat and Armstrong not if you go by interpretation of scapegoat?
As you imply, Pantani was a lightning conductor. The list of names at the end, and it surely continued, is what maintains Paul Kimmage's anger. You won't like this - but perhaps Pantani was retired and lives on away from controversy quietly. They do that with pop stars and Marco was just as big.
In 2003 and 2004 there were hundreds of sportsman dying from heart attacks or something like that As is the case of Miklos Feher, football player for Benfica that died during a match Marc-Vivien Foé also, Serginho Silva on Brazil and many more on secondary and local competitions I remember well that time and it was all too strange I always thought that there was something they were taking, and due to the number of young, poor and non major athletes it should be something easily obtainable at the time
Interesting. I suppose even without PEDs the extreme training regime could have negative impact on cardiovascular system but all those death cases... too many of them to think no stimulants were involved.
@@RoadBikersPoznan Yep and even in Marathons and distance over 800 meter Track stars in the 2000's were caught using EPO Like a guy from Morrocco, El Guruji (considered to be the best ever) Did when he was near to the end of his career or at least got caught then: he won Olympic Gold and at least one other medal not gold and a few World Track and Field gold. Then a number of Kenyan/and a few Ethiopian runners of high caliber just dropped off the map when it was found out who there coach or trainer was, who jumped to China to help those distance athletes "Legally Cheat" by staying under the limits or using things like albuterol Inhalers too much under the rules but not on race day, rather only before and after during training. Even a few top Trail Runners (mainly ultra distances or those in elite sky runner race series) were taking these drugs when the events started becoming more popular/a few lucky runners getting enough sponsors to be full time trail runners in the early to mid 2000's.
I think if riders have passed doping tests of the time which in cycling are insanely stringent,they passed and what more can we do. They are doping right now...probably even better than before average speeds overall are still comparable.... They avoid the major climbs like Alp Dues in TDF BECAUSE they will smash the records..
On the main italian cycling web forum (cicloweb) years ago Silvio Martinello entered the chat to argue about Marco's story, all the context of the time, epo and doping use etc. What always made me raise an eyebrow at his speech is that, while he speaking in a very generic and diplomatic way, but exactly photographing the situation of a "pharmaceutical" context everybody raced in and the strongest in his opinion had to succeed in doing an exercise of morality and take advantage of that opportunity to clean up himself and the whole system at the same time, he spoke of what according to him would have been an (his strict words) unforgivable mistake committed by Pantani. The unforgivable mistake was putting face on the overall matter and being the group's spokesperson, referring to Marco when he exposed his resistance to the double antidoping procedure italian sports federation CONI wanted to instaurate during the edition 1999 of Giro. Why do you have to define something "unforgivable mistake" if Pantani paid a price just for his eventual mistake in taking epo and failing to enter under 50 in time for test of that morning? Strange words, honestly. You should define "mistake" something that brings a new consequence and the consequence here would be already generated by something else. I can believe the price for that "unforgivable mistake" was the start of institutions hunger, media and judiciary "attention" against Marco, but why someone couldn't believe that Marco played already a jolly in 1998 Lugano TT and the Madonna di Campiglio test has been somehow rigged (not by mafia, but cycling context itself) to make him remember that and low his confidence everything was in his hands? They covered Armstrong with several positive tests years later and if you read rumours, observe results of that TT where Marco overperformed, you could think that chances of a switch of samples exist. I honestly believe whoever responsible for doping tests, at the time could do anything in a way or its contrary. So, why not making sure the Campiglio test fails to punish him for that "unforgivable mistake"? It would explain many things.
pantani, was on a similar program to all other top pro cyclists of the day, armstrong, ulrich, riis, virenque, mayo, basso, jalabert, escartin, ...etc, etc, etc. he was just an extremely gifted light climber. move on
"pantani, was on a similar program to all other top pro cyclists of the day, armstrong, ulrich, riis, virenque, mayo, basso, jalabert, escartin, ...etc, etc, etc."? (sic) Really, did all those riders also have Hein Verbruggen and Pat McQuaid on speed dial, covering up positive controls and spinning "saddle sore cream" narratives for them in the media? Did they also have UCI targeting riders who represented serious TDF threats for them too? "same program" STFU lol Why is it that armstrong apologists always turn up to Pantani stories to make these false comparisons, and false "level playing field" assertions? That they need to squint so hard to distort reality/the facts, ironically only serves as an admission of his guilt. The cognitive dissonance is obvious.
@@treygray2817 bullshit, his ability to process lactate was his edge, that's true clean or not. Just give it up, everyone doped, everyone dopes now everyone doped in the 80s including lemond. Who cares
the implied pattern is definitely true. Italian institutions, judiciary system, the international cycling federation and the media used him as a cover scapegoat when they realized that he wasn't as easily controllable as they thought and they did so to sell the idea of a real fight against doping, when the doping system did one step further and everyone kept doing exactly the same. No doubt Marco was somehow, willingly or not, a martyr to hypocrisy, someone who fell into an abyss because he realized he had been used before, during and after.
Please have some respect for this great cycling hero and remove the obscure picture of Marco lying dead in the hotel ..it achieves nothing.. RIP Marco 🙏
he was a natural climber and yes he was on epo like everyone else but his skills were not matched. Even the doper armstrong had a toough time matching pantani. Such as shame as he added colour and some character to the peloton not like todays rirders who are basically robots.
It's so sad, this story is the once again proof that this success wasn't worth... He won a tour de France, he hided all doping, he was an intoxicated soul. How bad is drug; so obvious...
I was as naive as most UK competition cyclists until the morning of a road race in the Midlands with my Concorde club team Bob and Muriel Maitlland .Gil Taylor told us Tom Simpson had died on Mont Ventoux They had raced with Tom many times so had a good idea of what the UCI had failed to prevent for many decades as was proven by Simpson’s Autopsy The UCI are probably as impotent now as they have always been and have never exposed their financial deal with Armstrong or the involvement of at least two of UCI Past Presidents in corruption that directly caused the preventable deaths of many hundreds of Amateur and Professional cyclists The UCI has failed cycle sport from its formation as the Governing Organisation as inept as Boris Johnson who has been asUK Prime Minister in the same Trough of Deception as the Unfit For Purpose U C I still is!
If you read Marco's biography by Matts Rendel you will find many speculations on why he would be killed. This is the one part. Another let's say "secret" part concerns his strange relations from dope specialists like Fuentes to drug dealers. No one really knows how his doping process looked like.
"Lance and Marco were made into scapegoats"? Do you even know what "scapegoat" means? A scapegoat is an innocent thing, a sacrifice that is burdened with the sins of others. It may be reasonable to call Pantani a scapegoat but the other was no such thing. He was NOT innocent, in fact he was the main protagonist, innovator AND beneficiary of the sport's drug fuelled mafia protection racket. Riders (like Pantani) died to protect his resurrection myth/fairy tale because it drove UCI's American market expansion. He wasn't a scapegoat (lol) if anything he was the most righteous but unfortunately belated prosecution of the era, that if done much sooner could have saved the lives of many riders just like Pantani. So don't sully the flawed Pirate's name by hitching the crap hero to Pantani's victimisation, instead remember who, why and how threats like Pantani were singled out, and the price they paid so the naive would buy into sports greatest fraud. At least show some respect for the departed, unlike the american fraud who equivocates his (insufficient) punishment with the ultimate price others paid.
It depends how you look at this. Golden age in terms of how easy was to perform blood doping just because there was no detection method apart from hematocrit level test.
yes especially as no age of cycling has ever been dope free, it just that since the 1960's sponsors did not want the bad publiciity, that's all. We are talking about a sport that is elementally mobile bill boards on wheels.
You think riders dying in the middle of the night with heart failure and committing suicide because of depression and anxiety is the "golden age"? You sound like the sort of ghoul that cares nought for the consequences others pay so long as you're entertained. In short, a crappy person.
Ciao Marco... da lassù non badare a chi ti vuole degradare... sei stato grande... dopo di te le montagne sono orfane. Noi amanti del ciclismo ti ameremo sempre. Ciao
If you cycle across italy you will still see his picture in small towns miles from anywhere, on signs for bicycle shops as far away as on mount Etna. He is like a god now, living in human memory with great love. I saw him myself in 1998 at Le Tour in Dublin.
True icon. Small Man with big heart.
@k c........Marco Pantani is my hero and all-time favourite rider. I too was lucky enough to see him [in the flesh] several times. And like you, I saw him in Dublin during the opening stages of the 1998 TDF [I actually rode alongside Marco and his Mercatone-Uno team and even chatted with him briefly!]
I also saw him in the 2000 TDF near the summit on the ascent of the brutal Mont Ventoux - when that a-hole Armstrong claimed to have 'gifted' him the stage. Pantani actually rode brilliantly that day - he was repeatedly dropped but managed to get back on every time before attacking on the Ventoux. Despite Armstrong's arrogance, Pantani totally deserved the victory that day!
@@thesoultwins72 wow! Lucky you. Marco was so unique. Sometimes when I ride uphill I am acting like the Pirate - drops only ;-)
@@thesoultwins72 Pantani was addicted to cocaine and well off top form that tour. Still a match for Armstrong (who had a blood transfusion prior to the stage) on Ventoux and dropped him on Courchavel.
Shame that his fellow countrymen and media harassed him relentlessly in his own hometown which lead to his downward spiral. Then in his death he was revered as a god and worshipped him, when the same people were shouting at his face calling him a disgrace. The people who killed him suddenly supported him when he was already gone. Disgusting.
Thank you for providing these videos. I was recently banned from cycling news for simply asking questions. The thing that bothers me is we are supposed to pretend doping went the way of the dodo. I honestly don't care if riders are doping; I just have an issue with the attempts to smother the conversation.
@@pureroadie What are those podcast ? if you remenber them please
doping is like technology, if you can't easily see it it's because it's more subtle, better designed and more powerful than it used to be, nothing in cycling has changed to allow for doping to be eradictaed. It's no surprise that with the covid restrictions on testing out of competition that athletic performance has taken a huge leap forward with an unprecedented crop of young talent.
@Dominic Calitz As are the shills who pretend it isn't. Back in the day, the sub-forum called The Clinic was the go to place to get information from insiders about the culture of doping. I understand from a business perspective why they sic their mods on anyone who raises the subject, but it's so obvious what's going on. They never answered repeated questions asking if they ever felt the weight of Pro Tour teams telling them to put a lid on it. I know the answer to that question, but they still refuse to answer it publicly.
When you have a proven corruption (as now in UK politicians the totally lopsided voting system that doesn’t represent the wishes of the Electorate) honesty and real democracy are as niullified asin anyTotalitarian Submissive State China Russia N Korea Iran Saudi Arabia etc So it’s not a surprise that the UCI deliberately allows wrong doing to dominate its policies and administration in order to protect a sham for decades! If one reads Russell Mockriidge Biograhy My World on Wheels his honesty shines through as he related the Professionals world of Competitive Track and Road Racing His naivety is there to see as it was for many of us that included Robinson Simpson Hoban when they stumbled into the reality of the established Drugs Culture Barry Hoban describes in the 1950s Known to the World Governing Body the UCI through their Dr Dumas who had intimate experience with drugs and their effect on riders for years before Mallejac nearly died on Ventoux the same mountain that Tom Simpson died on as the ignored Dr Dumas tried to revive Simpson The UCI failed hundreds of Simpsons who died The UCI also failed in its basic duty to protect the integrity and wellbeing of those thousands they demand fees from under false empty of substance rules its self ignored ignores since it founded itself and now pontificates from a Swiss HQ paid for from I’ll gotten gains It’s a scandal that should be exposed now
exactly. i dont care if the pro riders are doping. it is part of the game and in any pro sport. people pretent to be blind and deaf now, but in 20 years they will trash the riders of today, too.
are crazy darktimes marco pantani is legend never while be rider like him
One of the greatest! Nothing bring him back. May his soul rest in peace! 🌹!
He'll always be one of the greats
no
@@lurchamok8137 he got the highest w/kg on the climb ever
the difference is NOT getting caught.
its not about lack of drugs.
ALL winners are drug users.
Pantani the greatest climber ever. So sad how all these guys from late 90s early 2000s all ended up in a dark place . Meanwhile People still think indurain was clean and Riis gets to be a team manager
Indurain was probably as clean as the first 50 riders 😂 He was never accused of doping but his name was mentioned in some documents related to Dr Eeufemiano Fuentes.
No one with any sense believes Indurain was clean 🤣
I think I am with you about Pantani. I see him as a victim.
I first watched your videos when you talked about the Canyon Inflite and thought you only made some reviews on stuff you bought, but man this is great stuff, please keep it coming ! 👍
Thank you
About Pantani cleaness you can read data contained in the Conconi's Dblab file.
You will find that Pantani's percentage increase of hemtocrit is less than that of some racers and similar to that of other racers.
You can find all these informations in an article by Eugenio Capodacqua, an italian journalist who was never kind with Pantani.
Pantani was gifted, that's all. Regarding Pantani's eatlier years and exceptional physical skills, on the net you can find many interviews of Roncucci who was his director when he was amateur.
Ivano Fanini too, although he blamed Pantani for doping, recognizes his superiority.
Thank you for sharing interesting sources regarding Marco. Appreciate it :-)
Pantani was by all accounts naturally gifted. He was also a great responder.
He was smart to climb in the drops. At the speed those guys climbed, being more aero uphill is a real advantage.
This is possible as real aero benefits starts from 25-30 km/h which is definitely doable for pro riders in climbs 7-8%.
Actually the official record of Alpe d'huez is established 1995, and 1997, 1994 is the second and third best time on the climb set again from Pantani.
Thanks i enjoy your casts. Imagine if Marco had not have had those bad accidents how good his palmeras would have been. Just his return to cycling was a miracle..
I suppose he could win 1 or 2 TDFs more if he didn't crashed in 1995. This was definitely possible before Lance come back.
@@RoadBikersPoznan The Tour didn't have enough climbing. No way he's beating Riis or Ulrich in the mid-90s. The Giro and Vuelta, yes.
simple! grande pirata siempre!
To me Marco was the best of the best. Every cyclist in the tour in those years doped, some did it better than others, but doping doesn't make you better, it allows the athlete to train harder more often, so they do more work than those they beat. Marco was so very talented and didn't deserve to be hounded the way he was. It is so sad that he felt so alone at the end and took a way out of the torment as he did.
Unfortunately he was "ideal" candidate for UCI and pseudo anti-doping organizations to show whole world how good they are... I am much of the opininion he wouldn't fall into depression so quickly. They simply wanted to break Marco by making him automate villain in press. This what they needed at that time although all they knew most of the peloton was doped. 52% of hematocrit was enough to punish Marco but there were no symmetry when it comes to other riders. Investigation just focused on him. Rest would continue to dope as usual.
"....but doping doesn't make you better...."
If cycling is a cardio vascular sport where climbing mountains is decisive, and EPO, CERA increase your haematocrit thereby increasing a rider's capacity to climb at threshold for longer, then yes it does make you better.
These were not the "dark age of cycling". The dark age is now when no one draws any interest in cycling. By the way the so called " doping" continues somewhat in every sport. Pantani and Armstrong brought cycling into the spotlight. Every time they squared off we knew sit would be a battle royal. Not so today.
The conclusion is that spectators don't care whether riders are doped or not as long as they create emotions. Attracted audience brings sponsors and media. Teams want to keep sponsors promising results so they are pushing riders to their limits. Everything works fine till all of the sudden some athlete is suspected. Then it is easy to express kind of indignation and say "how he dared to dope..."
*"By the way the so called " doping" continues somewhat in every sport."*
Can you name the sports and the substances that are used?
@@cyril4046 doping it is not only substances. Even in chess when there were FIDE tournaments players "doped" by using chess-engines (eg. installed on cell phones) like Stockfish. Now there are special gates (like on airports) detecting devices and also toilets are monitored. As you can see sky is the limit. When it comes to combat sports I suppose still testosterone is the base. In endurance sports athletes may benefit from TUE (Therapeutic Use of Exemptions) and can legally apply prescribed drugs enhancing breathing like cortisteroids. For shaving grams and stay lean clenbuterol was used but now salbutamol or cortisone. Of course blood doping is still possible with EPO microdosing but this is difficult and requires special orchestration.
@@RoadBikersPoznan I care, and I am disgusted when someone cheats.
Marco had a special climbing style (using Creatine - normally unusual in cycling) pedaling 44/26 gearing
Creatine? Hmm strange... Anyway 44/26 gearing impressive. Marco was not a high-cadence rider so such gearing might fit him best. Similarly to Jan Ullrich but totally opposite to Lance Armstrong who was able to spin with 120 rpm.
I really enjoy your videos about doping in cycling. I think they are giving great inside!
In the U.S. He was worshipped by every bike shop worker and customer that I knew back then.
There's been 2 riders used as scapegoats in cycling and all of the others are happy for that to have happened.
"2 riders used as scapegoats"?
Do you even know what "scapegoat" means? A scapegoat is an innocent thing, a sacrifice that is burdened with the sins of others. It may be reasonable to call Pantani a scapegoat but the other was no such thing. He was NOT innocent, in fact he was the main protagonist, innovator AND beneficiary of the sport's drug fuelled mafia protection racket. Riders (like Pantani) died to protect his resurrection myth/fairy tale because it drove UCI's American market expansion.
He wasn't a scapegoat (lol) if anything he was the most righteous but unfortunately belated prosecution of the era, that if done much sooner could have saved the lives of many riders just like Pantani.
So don't sully the flawed Pirate's name by hitching your crap hero to Pantani's victimisation, instead remember who, why and how threats like Pantani were singled out, and the price they paid so the naive would buy into sports greatest fraud. At least show some respect for the departed, unlike the american fraud who equivocates his (insufficient) punishment with the ultimate price others paid.
@@space.youtube he was the main innovater?? Your delusional if you think Armstrong was the innovater its been an evolution since the beginnings of any sort of competition. And continues to evolve.
@@geoffreymccann2841 lol, it's like you have no sense of irony
Edit: It's hilarious that you originally intended to challenge the "instigator" characterisation but reconsidered, backtracking to argue "innovator" instead. You give yourself away lol
Either way you're on very shaky ground.
@@space.youtube I'm curious how am I on shaky ground?
Unlike you I don't have any hero's. And how is it allowed to potentially call Pantani a scapegoat and Armstrong not if you go by interpretation of scapegoat?
Il Pirata, capo di la montagna.
As you imply, Pantani was a lightning conductor. The list of names at the end, and it surely continued, is what maintains Paul Kimmage's anger. You won't like this - but perhaps Pantani was retired and lives on away from controversy quietly. They do that with pop stars and Marco was just as big.
Isn’t hematocrit level of 52% within limits (40-55% Hct normal ranges)
At that time it was 50%, so riders aimed to fit somewhere between 47-49.
In 2003 and 2004 there were hundreds of sportsman dying from heart attacks or something like that
As is the case of Miklos Feher, football player for Benfica that died during a match
Marc-Vivien Foé also, Serginho Silva on Brazil and many more on secondary and local competitions
I remember well that time and it was all too strange
I always thought that there was something they were taking, and due to the number of young, poor and non major athletes it should be something easily obtainable at the time
Interesting. I suppose even without PEDs the extreme training regime could have negative impact on cardiovascular system but all those death cases... too many of them to think no stimulants were involved.
@@RoadBikersPoznan Yep and even in Marathons and distance over 800 meter Track stars in the 2000's were caught using EPO Like a guy from Morrocco, El Guruji (considered to be the best ever) Did when he was near to the end of his career or at least got caught then: he won Olympic Gold and at least one other medal not gold and a few World Track and Field gold. Then a number of Kenyan/and a few Ethiopian runners of high caliber just dropped off the map when it was found out who there coach or trainer was, who jumped to China to help those distance athletes "Legally Cheat" by staying under the limits or using things like albuterol Inhalers too much under the rules but not on race day, rather only before and after during training. Even a few top Trail Runners (mainly ultra distances or those in elite sky runner race series) were taking these drugs when the events started becoming more popular/a few lucky runners getting enough sponsors to be full time trail runners in the early to mid 2000's.
Good he lived before this disc brake era
Yeah! Good thing. Lol
1:31 a young Lantern Rouge is following the tour.
Hahaha :-) :-) :-)
Love the videos man keep them coming
The Heart only has so many beats. The use of EPO & amphetimines will eventially take a toll!
So many Beats it can do per minute yes, try to force more than this and that is when things go wrong with the body.
Hearing voices can be a sign of acute psychosis, and unfortunately, self-medication with overdosing is most likely at fault based on your description
Yes. This is the most likely scenario.
I think if riders have passed doping tests of the time which in cycling are insanely stringent,they passed and what more can we do.
They are doping right now...probably even better than before average speeds overall are still comparable....
They avoid the major climbs like Alp Dues in TDF BECAUSE they will smash the records..
Power data from climbs aren't often published by the rides. Pogacar didn't took his computer on some stages...
He only got outed because he didn’t do what the powers at be told him to do.
I suppose it was far more complicated. In general Pantani was not easy to collaborate. Usually introvertic and highly focused at the same time.
On the main italian cycling web forum (cicloweb) years ago Silvio Martinello entered the chat to argue about Marco's story, all the context of the time, epo and doping use etc.
What always made me raise an eyebrow at his speech is that, while he speaking in a very generic and diplomatic way, but exactly photographing the situation of a "pharmaceutical" context everybody raced in and the strongest in his opinion had to succeed in doing an exercise of morality and take advantage of that opportunity to clean up himself and the whole system at the same time, he spoke of what according to him would have been an (his strict words) unforgivable mistake committed by Pantani.
The unforgivable mistake was putting face on the overall matter and being the group's spokesperson, referring to Marco when he exposed his resistance to the double antidoping procedure italian sports federation CONI wanted to instaurate during the edition 1999 of Giro.
Why do you have to define something "unforgivable mistake" if Pantani paid a price just for his eventual mistake in taking epo and failing to enter under 50 in time for test of that morning? Strange words, honestly. You should define "mistake" something that brings a new consequence and the consequence here would be already generated by something else.
I can believe the price for that "unforgivable mistake" was the start of institutions hunger, media and judiciary "attention" against Marco, but why someone couldn't believe that Marco played already a jolly in 1998 Lugano TT and the Madonna di Campiglio test has been somehow rigged (not by mafia, but cycling context itself) to make him remember that and low his confidence everything was in his hands? They covered Armstrong with several positive tests years later and if you read rumours, observe results of that TT where Marco overperformed, you could think that chances of a switch of samples exist.
I honestly believe whoever responsible for doping tests, at the time could do anything in a way or its contrary. So, why not making sure the Campiglio test fails to punish him for that "unforgivable mistake"? It would explain many things.
Those days were nothing but the heaviest raw dopping days..........everysingle rider was doing it or they were outside the team or any chance.......
pantani, was on a similar program to all other top pro cyclists of the day, armstrong, ulrich, riis, virenque, mayo, basso, jalabert, escartin, ...etc, etc, etc. he was just an extremely gifted light climber. move on
Above of all he was one of the lightest. He was able to reduce any time deficit from flat stages as soon as the peloton hit the mountains.
"pantani, was on a similar program to all other top pro cyclists of the day, armstrong, ulrich, riis, virenque, mayo, basso, jalabert, escartin, ...etc, etc, etc."? (sic)
Really, did all those riders also have Hein Verbruggen and Pat McQuaid on speed dial, covering up positive controls and spinning "saddle sore cream" narratives for them in the media? Did they also have UCI targeting riders who represented serious TDF threats for them too?
"same program" STFU lol
Why is it that armstrong apologists always turn up to Pantani stories to make these false comparisons, and false "level playing field" assertions?
That they need to squint so hard to distort reality/the facts, ironically only serves as an admission of his guilt. The cognitive dissonance is obvious.
No level playing field. Armstrong was a great responder to PEDs. He could never dream of winning a Tour de France in a clean field.
@@treygray2817 bullshit, his ability to process lactate was his edge, that's true clean or not. Just give it up, everyone doped, everyone dopes now everyone doped in the 80s including lemond. Who cares
@@cypriano8763 So, what's your explanation to Armstrong being pack-filler in GTs and poor in ITTs prior to '98?
the implied pattern is definitely true. Italian institutions, judiciary system, the international cycling federation and the media used him as a cover scapegoat when they realized that he wasn't as easily controllable as they thought and they did so to sell the idea of a real fight against doping, when the doping system did one step further and everyone kept doing exactly the same. No doubt Marco was somehow, willingly or not, a martyr to hypocrisy, someone who fell into an abyss because he realized he had been used before, during and after.
3:17 Additional oxygen consumption requirements for riding standing in the drops and stabilizing the upper body are minimal to almost none ...
Please have some respect for this great cycling hero and remove the obscure picture of Marco lying dead in the hotel ..it achieves nothing..
RIP Marco 🙏
3:40 that blood sample neve went to the refrigerator, but instead the docto put it into his pocket. That blood sample was alterated.....deliberately
he was a natural climber and yes he was on epo like everyone else but his skills were not matched. Even the doper armstrong had a toough time matching pantani. Such as shame as he added colour and some character to the peloton not like todays rirders who are basically robots.
Exactly. Today's riders are different. There are few with some kind of harisma and style but no one compares to Marco.
It's kinda annoying when it's obvious that people don't know what make the Dark Ages "dark"
It's so sad, this story is the once again proof that this success wasn't worth... He won a tour de France, he hided all doping, he was an intoxicated soul.
How bad is drug; so obvious...
acc. to the death list the shit they took must have been really dangerous,
It was all about tough training regime and manipulation of blood density. I suppose it was EPO abuse without proper supervising.
@@RoadBikersPoznan think so, the thick blood could easily block the small vessels around the heart
Sounds like simple cocaine psychosis.
ABSOLUTE RIGHT AND CORRECT.
I was as naive as most UK competition cyclists until the morning of a road race in the Midlands with my Concorde club team Bob and Muriel Maitlland .Gil Taylor told us Tom Simpson had died on Mont Ventoux They had raced with Tom many times so had a good idea of what the UCI had failed to prevent for many decades as was proven by Simpson’s Autopsy The UCI are probably as impotent now as they have always been and have never exposed their financial deal with Armstrong or the involvement of at least two of UCI Past Presidents in corruption that directly caused the preventable deaths of many hundreds of Amateur and Professional cyclists The UCI has failed cycle sport from its formation as the Governing Organisation as inept as Boris Johnson who has been asUK Prime Minister in the same Trough of Deception as the Unfit For Purpose U C I still is!
Sad true :-(
Well yes talented but built to climb at 130 lbs and very light high end bikes.
Secrets, I never realised his drug taking was a secret?
If you read Marco's biography by Matts Rendel you will find many speculations on why he would be killed. This is the one part. Another let's say "secret" part concerns his strange relations from dope specialists like Fuentes to drug dealers. No one really knows how his doping process looked like.
Corperate business killed pantani. Those In power with money wanting results. As soon as the riders were caught, they disapear like ghosts.
Exactly. This was typical "singling out" scheme. Expose rider to the media and pretend to not know anything.
Lance and Marco were made into scapegoats. Simple. Very sad.
Except one of them ended peoples careers and was a real A*&hole. Pleas don't put Pantani in that category.
"Lance and Marco were made into scapegoats"?
Do you even know what "scapegoat" means? A scapegoat is an innocent thing, a sacrifice that is burdened with the sins of others. It may be reasonable to call Pantani a scapegoat but the other was no such thing. He was NOT innocent, in fact he was the main protagonist, innovator AND beneficiary of the sport's drug fuelled mafia protection racket. Riders (like Pantani) died to protect his resurrection myth/fairy tale because it drove UCI's American market expansion.
He wasn't a scapegoat (lol) if anything he was the most righteous but unfortunately belated prosecution of the era, that if done much sooner could have saved the lives of many riders just like Pantani.
So don't sully the flawed Pirate's name by hitching the crap hero to Pantani's victimisation, instead remember who, why and how threats like Pantani were singled out, and the price they paid so the naive would buy into sports greatest fraud. At least show some respect for the departed, unlike the american fraud who equivocates his (insufficient) punishment with the ultimate price others paid.
Age verified? Come on man...
Not my fault man. It is YT automatically verifying content and sets restrictions. Can't do much anout this.
This was Not dark age. It was the golden age!
It depends how you look at this. Golden age in terms of how easy was to perform blood doping just because there was no detection method apart from hematocrit level test.
yes especially as no age of cycling has ever been dope free, it just that since the 1960's sponsors did not want the bad publiciity, that's all. We are talking about a sport that is elementally mobile bill boards on wheels.
You think riders dying in the middle of the night with heart failure and committing suicide because of depression and anxiety is the "golden age"?
You sound like the sort of ghoul that cares nought for the consequences others pay so long as you're entertained.
In short, a crappy person.