Yuumei, for the lack of a better word, has always been an activist. She has always been an environmentalist and her works carry heavy messages. For someone like that to use AI this blatantly, I am honestly just shocked.
Especially considering the fact that AI is so energy intensive, to the point where drinking water is being diverted to the server farms performing these “machine learning” operations. That’s really sad
@@dempos 16:44-16:55 and 17:03- 17:09 those are basically sums what they meant and why people disappointed at Yuumei ^^ TL:DR: the artist is an environmental activist, yet using a tool that well-known to waste a lot of energy to generate AI answers, let alone images and try to equate cheating using AI is basically the same with using 3D models or free brushes
I worry for our future. Art has kept us going for MANY years. It was our entertainment, our therapy, our kill, our appreciation for nature. People got more fame and appreciation showing off that work and that’s how they built their legacy. Showing the world a part of them. But now nothing has meaning. Songs are ai, movies are ai, drawings are all ai. You can hardly tell what’s real anymore. Art is losing all meaning and every day our world becomes more dull. It’s why people always talk about missing time years ago. When you were free to express yourself in so many ways. Where ai wasn’t taking that from you.
A lot of people fail to realize this issue is fixed and fast, take cryptocurrency, once extremely energy intensive, it is now energy efficient. Every developing technology will not be efficient to start but it will become efficient. The biggest issue with AI is simply put the art theft, but even then the cat is out of the bag, any new regulations will only harm individuals, while the corporations win out once again.
Yeah, saying that, as a human, they also create carbon dioxide is an idiotic response. Ok, sure, turn that off when you’re not using it??? You’d be producing Co2 either way, whether you’re sleeping, eating, or creating. That’s not a valid argument. I’ve also seen bros on AI wars commenting on the fact that one generated image using the equivalent energy to charging your phone saying “I use it on my phone, it uses a lot of power but it doesn’t drain the phone, come on!” The claim it uses that much energy isn’t that it will drain your phone, idiots. It’s that the power across the generation engines and the machine inputting the prompt use that much power! And that doesn’t take into account the building of the LLMS.
It was especially disappointing and hypocritical that Yuumei had complained about her artwork being stolen for NFTs and the environmental impact of NFTs, yet handwaved away the environmental impact of AI in her recent megapost 8:48
I’ve been following yuumei for more than a DECADE-I learned about them when I was just a kid, and really appreciated their focus on mixing art with environmentalism. So, this AI thing is like a double whammy, considering how AI is draining water and accelerating climate change. If I remember correctly, yuumei initially went to UC Berkeley for compsci before switching to art, so I have to wonder if she’s always had “tech bro” tendencies. Kinda wild considering how she practiced so much her hands literally got injured and mentioned art practically SAVING her while struggling with an abusive family situation 💀
@@UltimateDissapointment because it's use database to match the description of the thing some person type in the program. It kinda like mining bitcoin
She's likely the one of the most qualified people to have an opinion on AI art though. She knows both sides unlike most artists. Does this not make you rethink your stance on AI at least a little bit?
Key note about generators that "only use my artwork", etc. That is an impossiblity. It's focused through select artwork, but it still has pretraining (usually LAION) that uses uncredited/stolen pieces.
This. If we're generous, maybe she doesn't understand the tech. But that doesn't change that the model is trained nonconsentually on the art of others, even if she only feeds it her own art.
@@unturned6066 If it were possible to do it without pre-training, or someone were to develop a robust, credited, and compensated pre-training database, they might have a point (just don't mention deskilling or the havoc on the enviroment.) But no, EVERYONE uses the same, bland, stolen databases that were developed under everyone's noses, back when people didn't even realize the scraping was happening.
1. You dont know what generator was used, you dont know the datasets used. 2. If you understand the tech, explain the training, explain why training is needed and explain what diffussion is. 3. if you actually understand that, the debate is not about theft, is about what is intelligence. "Stolen pieces" is a wrong term to use.
@@mikeparradise9333 1. Don't really need to when everyone uses the same, stolen pre-training databases. But by all means, if there are pre-training databases out there with A) enough content to be useful, B) uses only credited work, and C) pays in perpetuity all the creatives it takes works from, feel free to use that with the confidence your dog poop smells like rosebuds. 2. Certainly. If you just run a machine learning function based on your own art, you aren't going to get good results because that's not a lot of data to formulate your function on. That's why Very early on, and continuing to modern day, groups like OpenAI and LAION scrape the internet for anything and everything, to create a dataset on which you can then add your custom data onto, to actually have enough data in the first place. 3. It's not, but nice little non-sequator. Stolen pieces (IE pieces incorperated into the development of tools, wherein the actual creators of the references saw not dime nor credit) is perfectly suited for the situation. BTW Sampling =/= learning, Statisics is not a great model to base your intelligence on, and even if it were you'd still just be spritzing the dog poop with expensive perfume (having ignored both enviromental impacts, actual impacts on workflows/creative labor markets, and the neurological effect that having a robot do your skill for you can have, ie deskilling.)
As a 3D Artist, getting real tired of hearing people use 3D as an excuse for why AI should be used more. I make the models and texture them bro, a program doesn't create them for me.
It automatically colors, shades and renders the light for you, as an artist You probably know that rendering in drawings takes a lot more effort than the setup right? But in 3D, rendering is fast because the SETUP is what takes effort, if you want something to look a specific way, it ain't gonna create that for you. I can see AI having a very similar process, if we want the art to look and feel a certain way, we gotta make a LOT of hand made reference material, AND guide the output, the more we do that, the more the art will match the vision. 3D is the same, we can use assets yes, but good luck finding assets that match what's in our head. AI is the same because it can't read minds, we gotta show it ourselves.
Hey just to clear things up, that post was referring to blank 3D mannequins to help 2D artists with posing and lighting. This sparked a massive controversial debate on 2D artists "not bothering to learn", dynamic posing, anatomy, or lighting. Since they could just copy the pose and shadows of the 3D model. Those against the 3D mannequins were arguing that it's essentially the same thing as tracing. It's still pretty up for debate, but for the most part, it's now seen as a tool to output things like comics and manga at an accelerated pace. They weren't actually referring to 3D art and design itself.
Regardless if she is or isnt we know she can draw but her injuries are holding back and this is the exact reason why AI is necessary to help lessen the workload for someone like this. She can still use her skills but she cannot draw for long periods of time anymore so AI assisting her is a good thing regardless of ethics.
Sorry, but if an artist flat out supports AI art and uses it, they will get people accusing them of using AI art. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. 🤷
The fact she heavily promotes saving the environment while supporting ai, which uses a lot of energy and uses drinking water to cool the machines, while wildfires and drought are so prevalent in certain areas. It’s like someone driving a supercar using lots of gas while having a sign that says to save the environment on it…
Bro i had a friend i drew free artwork for put my shit into an AI programmed and showed it to me like i was going to be flattered. I will never support this shit.
I just feel sad when an artist says that "ai is a good thing! it will help with my work a lot!" if you don't like making art why would you want to make art in the frist place?
Yeah, agreed. :c Like...I understand wanting to speed up the process sometimes. I hate figuring out backgrounds for my characters to be in. I still struggle with perspective and having that issue crop up constantly can lead to art block/burnout. I'm working with some 3D programs to help relearn the basics. Which is one thing ai takes away- learning on your own. It also takes away the possibility of making an art friend that is really good at backgrounds! (Or whatever you need help with) And I know they have health issues, but again... why not make art friends who would love to collab with you and help you make your art??
I dont mind when its like, someone training their own ai with THEIR own art. Theres a popular japanese artist on pinterest that does this and its quite nice but he doesn't sell them or claim its hand drawn yk?
I feel like making art in the last 10 years or so has been reduced to how quickly and efficiently it can be produced. The industry doesn’t care about how long something took to create. We all unknowingly bought into this with IG. Some of us wanted fame and status and posted like mad people to keep up with what the algorithm wanted. Now we find ourselves fighting against the very monster we help build. I personally dont care whether art is Ai or not becuase I have no skin in the game. I do traditional art as a hobby and dabble with digital art from tme to time. I would someday like to sell my art but im not at that point yet. I dont like AI art but I dont really dislike it either. If people want to use it to assist them then let them. Stick to what works for you and don't throw hate or jealousy. We are all free to follow what we want in this life so when someone doesn't do what you want them to do that's your problem, not theirs.
Yuumei's most recent post on insta talks about how she suffers sever pain in her wrists from overworking. Likely she has permanent damage to her wrist so she likely cant keep up with the swift tides of the algorithm. This doesn’t excuse this, but it might explain where she's coming from
its a contrary thing for her to use AI after she made climate change awareness pieces when California wild fires were ravaging the area she lived in. its kinda shitty to see someone who was trying to bring awareness to the damage humans are bringing to this world and causing natural disasters to be more prevalent and then become a bigger part of the problem by using AI to do their work.
@@batty-bites3185I agree that it's bad. But I'm also an artist on Instagram who's burnt myself out to the point of wrist issues so I know how terrifying that can be. People make shitty decisions when they're stressed, that doesn't make her irredeemable especially since she's already seeming started changing her stance on the topic. Yeah it was hypocritical but I don't vibe with how someone can do more than a decade of good work, make one mistake and then suddenly all that good work is magically void. I think she's earned some grace after how much she's done.
Anyone who's followed Yuumei knows about the wrist/hand damage. That knowledge has been around for years and years and usually brought up periodically for reminder. She was never an algorithm poster and no follower of hers has ever expected that. Everyone was content to wait and see the next piece when it came along, because it'd be worth it. I can understand wanting to get a project moving at a better pace, probably also worrying for a time when maybe she just can't use her hands for art anymore. But it's such a betrayal, a hypocrisy with the environmentalism. This is soul crushing. There's so many other ways.
As someone who had RSI for years and got cured, here's what worked for me: lots of stretching, 45m of work followed by a 15m break and... the last thing the doctor suggested was martial arts. Hitting targets can do wonders not only for your mental health, but your shoulder, arm and wrist will thank you for it. And I do use 3D for comics, and teach some of it, BUT with a grain of salt: I do not use premade models regardless is they are free or not, I learned how to model myself. Therefore, the art style becomes consistent. As for AI, sadly, regulations might take a long time to happen... look at screenwriters, authors, animators and of course, us... the number of layoffs is growing. But the saddest thing of all is the general sense of panic and accusation happening inside the art community. It used to be such an uplifting place.
I completely agree. Used to be so enthusiastic about joining the community more and meeting a lot of artists. But the accusations and judgment of who's a "real" artist just takes a lot out of me
But do you think it is a bad thing for Yuumei to be using AI? I thought it was actually nice to see this cotroversial tool be actually benefic to an artist. It feels like people are just thinking AI == Bad.
@daishisetsuko9743 if AI were trained of ethically sourced images people would not be so upset but I don't know if an ethically trained AI would be possible.
@@ashtonphoenyx that’s like saying murder is okay because driving cars also kills people sometimes, theres a huge difference in the impact of both Ai uses way more drinking water and energy than simply using internet by an insane amount
I remember this artist from yeeeaaars ago mentioning that she had severe wrist issues, so she had to go really into finding alternatives to help her, such as using 3D models and such. I'm not surprised that she just picked up AI like it was nothing, since for her it's really just another tool to give herself a break for her wrist, and for time. I'm guessing she does not fully understand that it was created using non-consentual art theft.
i remember hearing a tip from a professional artist called Marc Brunet who said you should draw from the shoulder instead of the wrist, idk if her wrist injuries have anything to do with that, but it just reminded me of it, so i just wanted to say, if anyone else has wrist pain as an artist try using your shoulder to move your hand, moving your pencil instead!
A few years ago, AI art could have looked like the answer to her prayers. She was losing her ability to make art, and here's this thing that could not just allow her to continue making art, but continue making it in her own style. It really takes a deeper understanding of the tech to understand the ethical problems, and the public debate was just not happening until recently.
"People already use my art to feed AI, hence it's the more sad that people accuse my 100% hand drawn painting as AI without any evidence." why does that bother her when she endorses AI herself? She should be okay with people thinking that her work is AI since: "it's the future" right? Like girl, c'mon.
it bothers her bc she made it and people are accusing her of.....not making it? tf are you on about? also yeah she supports ETHICAL uses of AI, aka tranning ai on your OWN work therefor not stolen to help YOUR procsses with comics. a 10 year comic can take 4 using ai tools.
@@dobbiereals The way Ai is right now there is no ethical way to use it. You can’t be mad that people accuse you of it if you endorse it. The way she’s upset about being accused of it, is the same way it’s hurting a lot of artists that started posting their work recently and getting scrutinised over every little detail. I just think it’s rich for her to cry about the accusations.
This part bothered me too as it almost feels like she’s trying to blame people for the way Ai is being used with her art but then she proceeds to use it with her art too either way like a double standard. it’s just so contradictory in a way.
@@xMilkyLemon thats just not ture CSP already use ethical ai tools, so do most photoshop soft wears. you people are forgetting AI isnt new. its been around for a while. most ai isn't stolen imagen generation. she not crying, shes saying what you guys dont want to hear. Ai IS a useful tool just like the fill bucket it. you can keep lying saying it cant be ethical when its been used in animation, and made animators job alot easier way before ai art even became the issue it is now.
@@Ajax-120 its not contradictory. The way AI is being used (stealing artist work) is bad. but shes not doing that. her AI is going to be tranned of if her OWN art, so SHE can use it. there is nothing wrong with it.
I've followed her for well over a decade now. She was one of the first few artists I refollowed when I moved to my new (at the time 😅) DeviantART account. I remember thinking she was so cool and revolutionary. I was there when she was working on Axent Wear and I desperately wanted cat ear headphones as a teen. I was there when she started using 3D models for her comics. I felt mixed about it, but ultimately thought it was a smart idea since it would lessen the strain on her hands. I loved her work and I would spend hours just staring at her pieces. So to find out that she is in support(?) of generative AI, it was massively disappointing. It hurts, but not too badly since I haven't been keeping up with her since the mass exodus of DeviantART. I'm not sure who to believe, so I blocked her just in case and figured it's for the best since I barely keep up with her nowadays.
She was one of the first artists I found in Deviantart around 2014 and was one of my favorite artists but like many of my favorite artists, she spoke about her hand pain and I realized I didn’t want to become like her. I still ended up with severe hand pain and a decade later was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis. When my symptoms started to appear, I immediately began developing a simpler art style that looked both stylish and was quick to draw with less effort as my realistic art. I still followed her for her environmental beliefs but looked at art less when I moved on to focusing on my life. It is really shocking and disappointing that she spoke so positively about AI art. Yuumei, even though we are hurting, this is not the way. There are plenty of ways to make art easier for ourselves and our health. The solution is simpler than it seems.
I FUCKING HATE that Yuumei is using her disability as an excuse, I have a wrist injury at the moment but that doesn't make me want to use ai??? Like wtf?? If you love and respect art as a medium why would you use ai??? I just don't get it 🧍. And to those saying "It's a learning tool guys!" Why do you reference off of ai when it can't even draw hands right???? Make it make sense. Sure, ai does look pretty from afar but when you look closer you see all of the big mistakes a human just wouldn't make. I'm disappointed in Yuumei.
no exactly, I have issues with my wrist but I take breaks and do hand exercises to take care of myself. I can’t believe Yuumei would do something like this and not even disclose it to her audience either 😢 I had to find out through this video that she uses AI…imagine the people looking up to her that compare their art to hers and meanwhile she’s doing that. First Ergojosh and now Yuumei, I have no words.
@@Stilipluth ...It's literally in the word. Dis-ability. You know, like dis-content, not content. Not able. Not able to draw because of the injury. A disability.
@@ShaCarothat’s not a disability she just isn’t able to now, but she will in the future. A disability makes it where you can’t ever without accommodations
I literally pushed through the pain of a nasty wasp sting on my hand that bled and swelled up just to practice for some little local art contest ages ago. Would've done it all the same - if AI art was a thing back then, I wouldn't have be it any different, because I felt as though I leveled up my art, and it felt like such a triumph. I still keep the art I made at that point in time, even over a decade later. Wasps and AI: 0 Human artist: 1 Checkmate, AI bros
I said a big piece on Facebook about this already but I'm a disabled artists. I have made art with splints on. I absolutely hate when people use accessibility as an excuse for shitty behaviour and doubling down. As far as I was aware they have never actually addressed the fact they were openly pro GenAI and said they want to do it more. They never used it in that piece and got so upset when people questioned it and still never addressed their current stance on AI use going forward.
yuumei's stance on Ai is only some big artist can have. if youre already as successful and influential as yuumei, Ai wont be able to affect your livelihood hence you can just throw your hands and say : this is not my battle 🤷♀
Young artists still need experience to use AI properly Or ANY form of art, AI can generate pretty images but it can't read minds, unless you show it, it's not gonna give you exactly what you want
On top of the whole AI ethics issue, the fact a huge part of Yuumei's work/brand has revolved around environmental and human rights activism really adds to fire. For her to just turning around going "well i use a computer/electricity and create a carbon footprint, so what difference does it make?" while completely ignoring the STATISTICAL DATA of how much the rise of AI has being detrimental to the environment makes her look like a huge hypocrite. Plus the way she takes this whole controversy as a personal attack instead of people criticizing her contradicting the values she's advocated for OVER A DECADE is what's damaging her image. As for her justifying using AI because of her physical disability... not included in your video, someone asked her "why don't you hire assistants?" to help with her workload, which is NOT uncommon for comic artists to hire help to for backgrounds/colouring etc... she replied "with what money?" makes me facepalm cause i realized she doesn't see the bigger problem here. Artists > need to draw to make money Art > already inherently does not have a lot of value in the west (especially digital art) For artists to make money > have to make a lot of art, often at the expense of their own health AI > devalues art even more due to market oversaturation and quick production turn over Artists > have to make even more art to make money to live > damage their health even more Conclusion: AI does not help artists, AI will exasperate the problem and make it harder for artists to succeed in this industry. If Yuumei could comfortably make a living off her art without straining her body, she wouldn't feel the need to rely on AI to "keep up" with the industry (cause in the end, she won't be making it easier for herself, she will have to work even harder). It really just makes her look like she values money > her art and values. Her whole argument about "people being against 3D/CSP brush assets at first" is not equivalent to the AI issue. I remember this, most people arguing against 3D/CSP brushes were a small vocal minority of elitists or ignorant non-artists who do not understand the art process... more mature artists Got It and understood that they were TOOLS (created with consent of the asset's creator to be used as a tool), so her using it as comparison to the criticism of AI is a mole hill next to a mountain. AI CANNOT be considered a tool if it cannot be not done ethically.
@@batty-bites3185 I know we can't assume that that her income is proportionate to her social media following plus if you factor in her cost of living situation (seeing as she lives in US/California + any medical bills)... But by looking at her patreon, which HAD over 5k members (she's lost over a thousand since this controversy broke out, so its now sitting at 3.8k~) plus her other side hustles... we can assume she probably makes at least $40k-60k+ annually not including taxes... so i'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt that she might not be able to afford help... but it's still hmmmmm
Tbh, I think that Yuumei brings up some interesting points in theory. For example, generating images to use for backgrounds to then paint over and photobash and add onto is pretty tempting to speed up the more tedious aspects of a painting to grow a business or account. It's also great to use for idea development. It's also obvious she knows how to draw and she doesn't rely on AI to create her pieces. She's turning the pieces that AI generates into her own by so heavily painting over them. But there is some hypocritical aspects to her as well. Seeing her so vehemently reject NFTs and bring up the environmental impact and all that stuff, but go hog wild for AI which is also known for copyright and climate problems is a problem. She also doesn't seem to understand that while something can be trained off of her own art, it was pre-trained with tons of other art beforehand to function properly. It doesn't seem like she's looking at all sides.
It's so jarring to see them tweet that about the enviromental concerns, when I was active on DA they had such strong oppinions about air quality, pollution, littering and made multiple artworks to bring awareness to the issue. I get that AI can be used as an artistic tool and can lessen the workload but this aint the way, maybe in the future when AI isnt so scummy, but rn its not good to be excited about taking unethical shortcuts like this as an artist.
As an artist, if I became unable to draw due to wrist pain/damage I would look for ways to create art without relying so heavily on my hands. And if I did feel the urge to make aI images to see certain ideas brought to my screen I would only ever generate those images for myself, not for others to see while claiming they’re my work.
I would not I draw in 12k resolution and by hand and that includes tiny detail no one gonna see without zooming in Their reputation is permanently damaged for getting corrupted into an AI bro Deserved felling off
This is so incredibly disappointing and disheartening to hear about. I've looked up to Yuumei for years, to hear she's not only using AI, but also dismissing the environmental impact of it and refuses to acknowledge that AI steals from other artists is just...It feels grimey. Like, super gross. I don't think I'll ever be able to look at another piece by her ever again without going "is this AI?" now, and she only did it to herself by so openly supporting AI.
i mean, what did she really do? train ai based on her own art to speed up the processes and be more efficient? using ai as a tool isnt wrong as ling as its not stealing art. AI tools for auto coloring in art platforms is already pretty common. if the ai she used had stolen art id she why what she did was wrong.
@@dobbiereals She'd not be able to do that without using some off the shelf training to supplant her own works. And those ones largely are full of stolen/uncredited works.
@@RobertStoll thats just not true. shes has thousands of artworks through the years and she would also be making artworks directly for tranning and reffrance for AI. do you also not pay attention? she also said in the future she'd do these things when AI is more advanced, makes less mistakes, needs less work to imput etc etc.
@@dobbiereals every single AI generative model has its base training, and continued training, done on stolen and uncredited works. there is NO way to ONLY use your own works unless you start an entire new model from scratch which so far i havent seen anybody do. in addition, a SINGLE image uses what? an ENTIRE citys worth of resources? thats grossly unsustainable, and incredibly selfish to want to doom the planet and resources we need just to generate a few images. nevermind the mass theft, and many of those AI companies charging money to use their generators, so you are paying to use stolen works, which is generally both morally and legally a no no.
I've been a fan of their work for over a decade. I loved Fisheye Placebo, and Yuumei's environmental activism in their art overall. For someone like that to openly support and use AI was so disillusioning, especially that they've complained about their art being stolen for NFTs and AI before. I also noticed Yuumei has an account on Cara, which has a very strong anti-AI stance. All of this suggests that Yuumei is a self-serving person, a pretty gross character flaw.
Some of the earlier AI uses I think were okay, like the older AI stuff before midjourney was stuff that wasn't trained on stolen copyrighted work afaik, such as clip studio's auto colorise tool. (Unless I'm wrong about it and was trained on copyrighted stolen work, pls correct me) Things like those AI inbetweening softwares or AI image upscalers or (i forgot the name but that software that could overlay a painting onto video with a reference image) might look bad but they weren't illegal and were here long before the big horrible mass image stealing 'AI' companies came along, and I'm pretty sure they were trained on work they were given permission to use/ commissioned work (the older AI stuff i mean, not the newer 2022 onwards stuff). The technology of LLMs isn't evil in and of itself, Spiderverse used something like that to draw the expression lines on the 3D models, and they paid an artist to train those off of with their consent, but those greedy companies like Midjouney scraping the internet and mass feeding an AI and the people who enable those are the ones in the wrong.
I don't know about clip studio''s auto colorize tool, but I know Krita has floated a "fast lineart" tool that uses a neural network to pretrain. It isn't very inspired (really none of these "tools" that statistisize art are,) but you can get closer to a blurred line if it's locally applied code that doesn't connect to a larger server and was essentially "coded" via neural network alone (with credited/compensated data of course.)
@@dobbiereals No, but if someone uses your pictures to tune a tool to figure out, say, where the colors of coats generally are, and don't pay you or credit you, then they have actually ripped you off. Especially if it's in payware like Clip Studio.
Clip Studio's AI is more a problem of AI being too broad of a word. They've been making in-house AI for years now that's more like shortcuts and "dumb" tools e.g content aware fill and recently dynamic/"realistic" color mixing. They've had to do a couple of apology tours the past few years because people misunderstood and jumped to the worst conclusion. Their only direct interaction with generative AI was in an update last year that was undone in days because of the backlash and hasn't been touched since
That's because there's a difference between AI as a basic concept (artificial intelligence that *is* a tool) and *Generative* AI (the thing that is fed stolen work and creates new images). Discourse on the Internet often isn't clear and precise with words, so I can see the confusion here.
I think she posted around 2012 about brigading against an art thief, and I questioned her as a large audience creator to weaponize her crowd against a single person. It wasn't about reporting copyright, or being proactive, it was just an open ask to harass this person until they removed her art. Considering her past, I'm not surprised at all she would feel entitled to use AI to cut corners. I quit following her after that drama, she came off as toxic back then as well.
Over in my country, a legendary comic artist, Ujang, advocates for AI. Despite the criticisms he received, he still will use AI. Worse is since his platform is Facebook, a lot of his fans SUPPORT AI.
As a comic creator, I will love to have new tool that can transfer all the images in my mind, 1 to 1, perfectly angle with exact details and consistency, to the comic page so I can focus on creating my stories, and ai is not that tool. Artists who painted over ai or use it to create their og or backgrounds don’t value their creation. Ai can’t create images exactly what you wants, so using ai is letting technology take over your mind. You’re not controlling it like a tool.
There are ML models that can be trained on your own art and be used a tool. The Spiderverse movies have an implementation of this. It helps them with animating. I doubt that kind of tech is available for small scale commercial use, but it is possible
(Warning this is a book, save yourself and ignore this comment, I get heated a bit with this, I started watching Kat because her take on AI interest me, to listen to the other side, but due to my mental state I got super annoyed lol. I'm sure some of my points are just confusing and/or Bias as heck, but I still wanted to post this comment. Have a lovely day/noon/night) First off, is ALL ai tools made with stealing other peoples art? is this confirmed? Or is it just fear mongering full of assumption? Some have been proven, like on deviantart originally all artwork was going to be fed into their AI system, later they fixed it where you can check off a box to allow that to happen or not. The damage was already done I'm sure in my view but we can't say ALL ai tools is stolen to make new art unless confirmed. I don't see the problem of using AI art as a tool said many times in my comments, we are told to reference many diff things to make a piece, AI does that when it makes new pieces doesn't it? This artist then takes it step further to make the AI art their own vs turning around and posting the work as finished right from the AI. This isn't exposing even, if the artist has been open of their use of AI in the past? They weren't hiding it then? You have a right to dislike Ai use, but this artist was using it as a tool (not 100% how I wish they were using it far as I can tell, but we don't know where the AI starts and where their actual work ends), no reason to suddenly shun the artist. You're treating them as a criminal at this point. idk, I'm still in favor of using ai art as tool, if it's done right. 2:42 I have used 3D models in art softwares, and my hands have come out like this. The fingers aren't fusing together like AI do, or look broken, that hand looks correct to me. HECK I even screenshot this image to double check used a 3D model in my Clip studio and I could match that hand 99% the same, the thumb was the only issue, but at this point it looks like a style choice with the pose. 3:04 the birds are blending into the canvas, and it's not four wings, those are two bird silhouettes close together! come on :c It looks weird to you because one of the birds are apart of the painting vs the other one still outside of the painting. (least it's brought up again, but she still doesn't see it as 2 birds lol) 3:18 It's because the shading of the hand and the brush are close to each other, a way to have fixed that is adding one small little black line. Alot of areas of the artwork has sketchy linework where it's just color in places instead of complete lines, it's a style. And this one spot was a unfortunate turn because of the style. At least how I'm visually reading it. 5:47 Personally, I don't know this artist, but I've known of this artist for 16 years, Few years after I made a deviantart account, all artists try to cut corners, otherwise digital artists wouldn't be a thing. What is wrong with them using AI as tool? What if it helps them have less strain on their hand? What if they only use it a little. Their art has been outstanding WAY before AI software was even a thing. So to shun them at face value like just reading a title of a news article and calling it a day, is a little disheartening in itself. 5:53 where? where are the crooked lines? Go back and look at their work from like 2012 when they used 3D backgrounds they'd paint over. their "crooked lines" is them just not using a linetool =table flip= Some styles aren't perfect when it comes to perfectly straight things irl. 14:28 What is wrong with wanting to use a new tool if it'll benefit the artist in someway. She's been vocal about her hand issues, so what? She just has to let her hand become messed up? Take long breaks when she needs to make money even if making art is her job? Nothing wrong with testing the waters with AI tools. Be neat if could feed our own style into an AI (privately) to help us visual a work we want to do or AI to set up a 3D scene for us to reference from vs us setting it up ourselves. When time is money vs a hobby new tools to help us speed up our process is amazing and efficient. Like I said, Digital artists wouldn't be a thing otherwise. It's frustrating when we want to try something new, then all our art suddenly become AI generated in the eyes of others. Also frustrating that the title of this video is SO click bait, and all the years this artist has gone through is thrown out the window and "oh now I'm dissapointed in this person because they support something I don't like" uggh. They don't 100% support it, there is still MANY flaws in AI tools, it's just a matter of time it'll be a useful tool and it's just not there yet. Fine be SUS of "artists" that have no artistic background, and suddenly are posting pretty art, but bashing someone that actually wants to use it as a TOOL vs using as a Completed art piece. I..sigh. History repeats itself with the blind hate and it's heart breaking when a use of something is blanketed as the same thing when the process is completely different. 17:34 I'm confused about this, If someone did read this book can you explain to me what echo stuff they're talking about? Maybe I'm googling it wrong but saw nothing about how AI effects the environment. 19:00 That's a great alternative, but I still think AI tool should still be explored, improved, and hopefully one day they'll be as ethical as any other software (though some purists can and will still be out there). AI tools are just not there yet, Least some artists are trying to use it as a tool vs a finished product, and shouldn't be shunned for that the moment other's realize their stance, at this point it turns into toxic politics. Plz no. Just wait and see how things are in the future before chop blocking someone.
Where can i read the book? You just spoke my mind Also a few notes: the tech to use AI for original controlled work is actually there, there's a plugin for Krita that guides the drawing and can use bother trained models and references from control net, there was also Invoke AI but less advanced in terms of drawing tools Almost every AI service (including many free tiers) have model training now, I think artists and people in general just held on to the initial "AI is prompting only" and never checked the tech advancement since 2 years
@@ComplexAce Well, I mean if you click "read more" you'd see the book? lol Alot of times people say my comments are like a book because of how long they can get. 😅 yee, I didn't bring it up in this comment but other comments I made in the past I brought up Krita The down side though of using the plugin is we don't know for sure if the stuff is stolen or not. I wish They's just have a bunch of artists on payroll that give the okay to use their art for the AI learning, then no one can say boo XD the only issue is "it's stolen" even though all art by artists is the same thing in a way, a collage learned from other artists. The only diff is the Ai is taking from other work vs referencing from other work to make new work. Once these AI softwares have confirmed consent I wonder if people will still hate it. Still think people shouldn't use this work as a final product, Even if it's not just prompt now, people are still not using their own efforts to make something (none of the rendering is their own effort/art). Use the prompt + trained models, etc. To make something you'd use as a reference. Then from scratch remake the work in your own style and effort (no tracing either unless it's to learn some strokes)
@K1nla I missed the joke the first time :v But I read the whole comment Krita's plugin can connect to a custom setup actually Basically you can use your own trained models in it, it's local so it's completely customizable I would disagree about rendering and final result, because you could say the same thing about 3D, it auto shades and remders based on the setup But that's the thing, it needs a LOT of good setup to work as intended, unlike drawing directly. I can see AI working in a similar fashion, the concept, art style, and actual drawing needs to be done by an artist, and done in a way the AI understands Otherwise all we'd get is a random disconnected mush, very far from the intended concepts and target aesthetic/feel
@ the environment argument. The training and usage of deep-learning generative AI consumes a LOT of electricity. This is well-documented, by the way - it's a problem. Even making some 3D models over a week or so and doing a quick render of the scene, and then turning that into a full painting over a few more weeks doesn't take as much electricity as using generative AI for a very small amount of time. Not only that, but the computers and server banks the AI uses generate a huge amount of heat, which contributes to global warming, and requires cooling via (drinkable!) water, which itself contributes additionally to droughts (on top of the global warming thing, which also doesn't help). This is an issue in of itself, don't get me wrong, but it's worsened by the fact that Yuumei is and always has been an environmental activist. So much of her art is about saving the planet, about stopping global warming, about stopping oilspills and dumping plastic in the ocean. So much of her art is solarpunk, green and beautiful. She has a full comic on light pollution and smog, for pete's sake! And yet she refuses to see the (again, well-documented) issues caused by AI, besides the fact that they're initially trained off of stolen AI (even if they're additionally trained off of her own art willingly - if it was solely trained off of her own art and didn't have any training from unwilling artists at all then the ethics of art usage would be a non-issue and I wouldn't mind it being used as a tool, but alas, the planet begs to differ).
She actually talked about this more clearly on her tumblr I'd read her statement there before making your final judgments. She actually doesn't use AI I've only seen her use it in those examples and she uploads her process. She has experimented with lots of things over the years to help her process due to her disability like drawing over her own photography and this was just another thing. Lots of people were hyped about when gen AI was just starting to be a thing. I agree her statements on twitter have been pretty bad and I'm not exactly sure what she was meaning to say in them but she's much clearer in the tumblr post. At the end of the day make your decision for sure, follow your morals.
Thats kinda the sad part. She's not talented. She is however incredibly skilled. To reach her lvl of skill it takes years of hard work and dedication. And now that's she reducing all that time and effort into simple algorithms says thats she's lost the passion that put her on this journey in the first olace and honestly thats more sad than anything.
Man, she's losing her actual physical ability to make art! She has to give up art or use alternatives - which would you expect a passionate artist to do?
i was about to feel real bad about myself until i found out this artist has been posting since i was born, and definitely has been drawing for way way longer than that idk why i assume every legendary artist i see is like in their early 20s like me
With the “third wing” I feel like that’s the wing of a bird off canvas, confined to the canvas, implying that the other two there are also confined to the canvas, blurring the lines between what is in the world of the painter is and what is in the world of the art.
Should look into Sakimichan too. Hyung Tae Kim also uses stable diffusion that learns off his own art, and uses it because he's pushing 50+ and can't draw like he used to anymore, let alone be the main artist for his company SHIFTUP. We grow older, we can't do things we used to, our output is slower, I don't blame some artists getting AI to learn off of their work.
sakimichan has already been on the chopping block for years for her racism i don't think many people see her as a positive influence anymore so wouldn't be surprising if shes also unethical.
Ai is bad, and will always be bad. Like not only does it steal the work of others but also use a significant amount of energy. But at some point I can somewhat understand why she wants to use ai as a tool. I mean look at it, many people use 3d backgrounds for their art to save time. And she could most likely do the same, as long as she doesn't steal it because she did say she is trying to TRAIN ai to her art so she could be able to make artwork similar to her artstyle, she never mentioned she'd flat out steal, I'm pretty sure she knows well that most of the generated images ai pumps out is from real artists. Also back then ai was still being used as an *experimental* tool. I still remember how fascinated I was of a computer program making artwork out of only prompts, plus the tweets she made are literally 2 years old, I'm sure she as an artist knows WAY better than anyone about how ai can affect artists. The art she made with ai was a part of her experimenting new tools she could take advantage of, especially with her wrist problems. She's mentioned about her wrist problems way before Ai was even a thing, and she's always looked for a new tool which could not only help her save time but also make her be more efficient. Also she only wants to use ai as a tool for her COMICS. She has experimented by making full illustrations with ai but with the messages and tweets it's quite obvious she only wants to use it as a tool for comics, and I'm sure everyone is well aware that comics take a lot of time. And with such a detailed artstyle she has, comics are specially time consuming. In the end I think it's okay as long as she doesn't misuse it and doesn't let it get to her head. I hope she can still keep her illustrations original. But yeah, Ai is bad but it's only bad if you misuse it.
Trying to justify theft with injury is gross. There are lots of people out there with disabilities and chronic illnesses that create challenges to doing art, but do not claim they're owed the opportunity to steal from others to make up for it. There's a difference between accessibility and thievery, and at the end of the day the reality is that there has to be a certain level to work through challenges and limitations on an emotional level as well, rather than steal or become bitter.
I follow her on Tumblr. Her art is gorgeous. The picture on the right at 1:14 is her Tumblr header. It’s really sad to see that she seems to be Pro-AI art. 😢
Controlnet can absolutely handle it. Make your own checkpoint of your own work, and use segmentation without an input, supply your own work. The end. It’s the closest thing to actual ai art.
There are ethical base models out there now and artists can essentially train their own style LoRA on site. I don't think there's open source software that can run these models yet, so they're probably stuck with on-site generations. I think people would probably complain about the use of Stable Diffusion base models to create a checkpoint because they were originally trained on LAION - despite the fact that essentially if you're only key-wording your own artwork with your own LoRA, you're utilizing the training set's data on "what is a cat? What is green? What do oceans do?" and not the part of the model that was trained to produce specific art styles from art work.
Yuumei in Japanese translates to “famous”, which is really telling for someone to name themselves that. Despite the constant pseudo intellectualism yuumei spouts, irl she is not bright and could not function without her sycophants. When I was in university there was, no joke, a fanclub that would worship and do everything for her. She didn’t have to lift a finger, they catered to her like a king. When she started vending at cons, she had her people set up and sell for her while she sat there. When she talks about her hand pain it’s not due to hard work, it’s because of her own idiocy. Her fan group would recall wonderful memories of the time she tried cooking and almost burned the house down, this is the type of person we’re dealing with. Also she has been babied her entire life. She’s constantly pushing that she is an eternal victim. A girl copied the concept of one of her drawings and got her disqualified from a contest. But for yuumei that wasn’t enough, she had to get her fans to dox and harass her too. When she had a disagreement with her partner for the cat headphones, she tried to spin the narrative she was being taken advantage of and tried to rally the internet against her partner, despite the patent and clear ownership clauses being public. And how could we forget how she tried to launch a hate campaign on Ariana Grande and FLCL for the crime of wearing her headphone design, which at this point was sold to and owned by Brookstone. There are many more instances of yuumei’s god complex and it sucks that people like her are given so much grace and power.
She's just someone who literally just posts her art online and has for decades since dA. Grace and power? Dude, she draws and sells her art, lmfao. The hell is wrong with you? You sound jealous and pathetic af, my dude. Might I recommend going outside to toucheth thy grass?
@@HyliaFelllook at you evading all the points! Do you want your sword and shield knight? Will yuumei finally recognize you for all you’ve done for her 😂 what a loyal keyboard warrior you are! One day you’ll truly be rewarded
Note to self, if I ever get famous, don't start a Ariana Grande hate campaign. Her power level is over 9K. Also don't trust Yuumei for my taxes. She's not actually a brilliant intellectual.
When it comes to appreciating AI-generated art, the tool used to create it is secondary to the quality and impact of the artwork itself. What truly matters is how much you enjoy and connect with the art, not the specific software or algorithm behind it. Whether it's the intricate designs produced by one tool or the vibrant imagery from another, the value lies in the final creation and the emotions it evokes in you. Ultimately, it's your personal response to the art that counts, making the tool a mere means to an end in the creative process.
A lot of image-editing programs have AI generated filters that just pull from their existing filters and combine them for the desired effect. That’s probably the only ethical way for a an artist to use AI. As a primarily traditional artist, these filters help me a lot.
I'm an artist with arthritis and my hands hurt a lot, but I still will not use AI. I would rather power through the hand pain and get my art done than go that rout.
i mean considering i didn't know about it and ive been following them since early DeviantArt years, it was exposing the truth to me. plus it doesn't seem in current posts she even talks about using ai anymore so if shes trying to hide the fact she is or cover her own admittance from 2019 it would in fact be exposing the info to others who don't know or don't keep up with her twitter.
I've been keeping up with yuunlmei since i was a kid. They have had wrist pain since i was a teen, so i believe the decision to use ai was based on that. This is understandable to me, as I've seen how much the pain kept them from achieving, but i can't say its not disappointing and heartbreaking. I dont think i can look at their new art in the same way
There are people in the comments saying that AI is just a tool to create. I replayed but ima comment this here to overshadow these silly comments. “No. The brush does not create for you. It is a tool that allows YOU to paint. Ai allows you to claim you made it by doin very little. Just saying this dosnt make it true. Comments like this are giving “this is the only way I think I can make art. I don’t care it steals from artists, cause it dosnt effect me” which is a very uneducated take. If I steal a car, and then the owner says hey, that’s not cool, I cannot turn around and say, this is the only way I have a car, you could just go and get another one. That would be stealing, and wrong. The way AI is now is stealing and wrong. Could it have been created in a way that was not stealing, yeah probably. But unfortunately that’s not how it went, and therefore it is unethical.” Thanks for reading 🫡🥰
"Behold, I painted this! *waves to the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel*" "...No, Pope Sixtus, *I* painted this, and *YOU* commissioned it." "Well it was my idea!"
Being excited over AI in 2022 when it was almost unbelievable and surreal should not be held against anyone. DALL-E, Stable Diffusion, etc. basically didn't exist in 2021 and weren't really widespread and accessible until October 2022. The issue in the short term will be people who just discovered AI or never thought about it going through the same initial wonder everyone else did years ago, then getting bandwagon hate from everyone who hates AI, not understanding the backlash. Lol
Im actually at this point confused; People say we should use ai art as a tool but when used as a tool you still get shit on and hurt other artists. So whats the point of it? Should we just qvoid it in general? Like if you use it for reference u you also get shined for it so is there any point of recognising it as a tool? People always said "use it as a tool not as the endproduct" so it feels like we shouldnt use it at all?
Yes, exactly. You shouldn’t be using generative ai like DALLE or Midjourney at all. They are unethical tools. People who say it’s okay to use as a tool miss the entire point of why they are harmful. The clip studio colorise thing, as far as I’m aware, is fine. Since it’s not trained on stolen work or anything. At least I don’t think so. If it was it would be unethical too.
Yeah, that contradiction comes from denial They're afraid of feeling undervalued Which is sad tbh because I see it the opposite way.. Oil painting are much more valued than digital BECAUSE of the extra effort put into them, maybe recognize that anything hand made will skyrocket in value with the spread of AI art?
Just get the facts and look at the situation with a fine calibrated moral compass. AI isn't a tool, that's what OpenAI and the tech giants want you to think. After all, it would benefit them if artists just shut up and ate from their trough.
There are actually two AI's that you can train with your art, one is MIMIC (it's a japanese AI that you can only do one try and I think you have to pay if you wanna use it more. This one is the first AI that started with all the problem I think. It's also the forst one I heard of) and the other one is Starry AI (which is mostly free). Those are the only ones I know
"this is not my fight" is such a nauseating thing to hear from someone with so much influence in the art community. it's understandable that she has repetitive strain and that drawing hurts her, but it feels very arrogant to ignore and diminish the damage genAI does to other artist using that as an excuse
Yuumei is famous for being the basically no1 environmental artist out there. Her being on a pro AI stance is just so utterly contradicting to that and one of the main reasons people are so disappointed in her. And then her comment along the lines of "this is not my fight to fight" is honestly ... just sad. Inspiring arts about oppression, freedom, standing up for yourself and your cause - they feel now all sour (to me personally at least). Where are the morals now? Are we throwing the morals out the window as soon as the cause benefits us? I might sound a bit bitter with that comment, but that is cause I am. I always liked her art. I know Yuumei struggles with her hand to keep drawing, and as an artist myself I don't want to even imagine how devastating it must be to not being able to create like you are use to before. But turning around and supporting, - almost celebrating- the technology that is actively stealing from other artists and damaging the environment, just so *they* can keep on drawing is just wrong. And honestly, her silence and avoidance on the direct question "Are you for or against AI?" speaks to me louder than anything else.
Think most of the responses are quite an overreaction. Yuumei doesn't have much to prove to anyone. Anything she generates through AI, she can make herself. Shes specifically using it as a tool, not a crutch. But i will say, AI has created a new problem, where you can be told "your art looks like it was AI generated" because of stylistic inconsistencies.
I'm suffering from thar kinda accusation because I like contrasted colors and dreamy looks, I rely on negative space a lot too instead of focusing on details, and I see people tracing every imperfection to "call it out as AI art" They completely forgot how imperfect humans are in the first place.
AI is a threat to every creative industry. AI art, AI music, AI literature... its just sad that we even have to question if something was made by a human these days
It's every industry, more so the white collar jobs. Trades people are spared for now until robot mobility and battery tech gets better. Maybe more artist can do street art of some kind, that's not something A.I can do...for now at least.
Here's the thing... she's not wholly wrong, but she misses the big picture. Yes, in theory an AI model trained solely on one person's original artwork isn't theft. But AI as a whole is so riddled with potentials for abuse, and so insanely devastating to working artists, that supporting the technology, and the tech giants profiting off it, is immoral. It's funny she mentions it's "free" several years ago while having absolutely zero foresight. Also, I'm highly skeptical of the integrity of artists who are genuinely excited for this technology as a shortcut to their own workflow. Are you no longer interested in the learning process and the journey? All AI will do is make you more reliant on IT instead of YOUR OWN artistic skills/sensibilities. And over time it will greatly water down, cheapen, and diminish the value, substance and creativity of your work, whether you realize it or not. My advice to people like Yuumei is that it's okay to be fascinated with the tech behind this shiny new thing, but to be keenly aware of its dangers, both existential and personal.
@@Mojaveknight17 Well, not really. You can't download a brush, and tell it do art in the style of "artist X". The AI can. There's a bit of a degree of separation there. 3d also requires you master the 3d program to add backgrounds with 3d. AI art requires no art mastery, only prompts.
Wait what? Yuumei? 😮 I have been known her art since 2014-15 for example and always would make great art. That's so out of character for an artist to do it when they know what AI does
I just want to add, if you’re having wrist pain, it’s worth training yourself to draw with both hands to some extent. Drawing with fingers I’d save as last resort. With a little practice you’ll be surprised how well you can draw with your other hand. Not for linearts maybe at first but for rendering etc
the upload rn is very much appreciated!!! just hurt my foot while dancing and need something to watch while i take a break (i assure you i'll be right back dancing after i finish this video, it was nothing major lol)
..... We are not doing this are we.... She hasn't actively used AI outside the Vance comic strip in awhile. She used her own artwork to test it. She admitted to that. Her main reasoning for wanting to use Ai is to help her with her comic as she has, for years now, suffered medically from pain from drawing due to her past of never taking breaks catching up to her. Is that an excuse? No. But she's also the type to see if AI progresses enough, to have a program made for her, with purely her own artwork as training, to make this happen. Will it happen? Who knows. But people are bringing up the AI comments and usage that happened years ago (Vance comic aside as that was this year) and trying to now be like "ALL HER NEW WORK IS AI!!!!!!!!" when the same shit happened some years ago when she was using 3D to help base out background or perspective easier. I'm honestly tired of hearing about this one. I'm not for AI, but I understand that in this case, people are looking for a fight that doesn't need to be started. She's never hidden anything, unlike a multitude of people using AI and claiming they never used it, never traced it, etc etc. Yuumei has always been rather transparent when simply /asked/.
Watch the last 30 second of video will explain why everyone is up in arms. She's not giving a straight answer when asked if she still supports genAI. She's answering a question not being asked and avoiding answering clearly. People are trying to piece together her stance. "Yes or No, do you still plan to use genAi?" The answer seems to be yes, where many are hoping No 😢
Most artists didn't really understand machine learning until recently. It also wasn't clear before this year that artists would be against AI art, so it's not surprising that Yuumei's stance on AI could have changed. It might have been unethical in similar ways in 2022, but it would be understandable for someone to not realize what they were doing was wrong, since the discussion wasn't really developed. It sounds like they thought at some point, they would be able to make a model trained exclusively on their own work, which would be relatively ethical. We now know this is impossible with current models, but they didn't seem to understand that and there wasn't really anybody explaining that to them. I get that it's hard to believe that they haven't been using AI now, that's fair. But we can't treat their past stance as their current stance when they've said their stance has changed.
I hate this. The messages from Yuumei experimenting with AI are from 2022 when we knew much less about everything regarding this topic than we do now. They have chronic and painful health issues that keep them from creating art which is their passion and livelihood, and these models are massively trained on their work because it's so popular. From their perspective, it makes sense they experimented with it back then to see how it could make their art process more convenient and less painful. (From what I know, a lot of artists experimented with it back then in private, but some also in public. There are also a lot of YT videos of artists "stealing back" from AI by redrawing generated images, etc.) I can't keep watching this (in my opinion biased from the start) video, let alone look at these judgemental comments. You framed this in such an unfavorable way it's disheartening. If Yuumei was still using this actively to this day, profitting off it and ignoring all of the environmental consequences / feigning complete ignorance, I'd understand the outrage, but this? As far as I know from what I saw on social media, that isn't the case, right? Based on that, I see someone who is being purposefully misunderstood by a community that is scared, divided and pushed into anti-AI extremism out of fear of being cancelled. We shouldn't be cancelling each other, but acknowledging each other's situations, learning from and guiding each other toward good decisions, right? (Btw, I'm not here to argue, just to share a different perspective to inspire thoughts, compassion and respectful exchanges (hence why I ask a lot of more or less rhethorical questions). Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong with any of what I said, I'm here to learn! And just for clarification in case it's of importance, I'm anti unethical generative AI and against the illegal use/reproduction of copyrighted material. Meanwhile, let's not ignore the elephant in the room that this technology is here to stay and jobs in the digital art industry (games, movies, commercial illustration, etc will never be the same, and those of us working in those fields will be forced to work with in-house AI software tomorrow. Are we going to turn on those creatives, too? Everything around creative work and AI is a nightmarish hellscape rn, so maybe please lets not direct unnecessary hate at human beings and hear them out instead...))
Lets be honest, at some point AI art will be more accepted in the future. Yuumei is getting with the times, her hands hurts and she want to produce longer stories. If theres a tool that can help with that vision, go for it.
@@Strawberry_Smoothiez There's already different types of generators out there that can be train on your own individual style, artwork and models she's smart for this and AI is only a tool its not going to replace anyone so all these artists out here can stop fearing for their jobs.
@@TeaTimeTable you literally cannot train an AI yourself to mimic your own style. Thats impossible because it would need thousands of images from one artist to even manage to do that
Dear A.I "artists" you need to accept once you use A.i you are devalued as artist doesn´t matter how many tweaks you do, so if you are willing to use it you need to accept that fact also you need to accept "your" work like A.I generator shouldn´t have full advantage of the copywriting laws, other than that have fun and use the A.I as much as you want, go wild.
Yep! It's either you do, or you don't. All this in-between "it's a tool" stuff detracts from the real issues - it's a red herring. There is no nuance this time, it really is just that black-and-white.
Glad she’s touching on this. AI is gonna put a hurtin’ on creators/editors/artists/et al. Dude, look at channels, content, voiceovers now. Even commenters. AI and bots. It’s here, but it’s gonna get worse/better
well, traditional artist said the same thing about digital artist when it first became a medium of drawing. they thought it was lazy as there was so many tools and shortcuts. even the selection tool was considered lazy and cheating. i think AI tools can be fine if trained off your on art. and btw im saying ai TOOLS, not just prompting a whole piece. AI tools are already pretty common tbh
Developing or having a disability doesn't excuse you from benefiting off mass theft and exploitation. Gen ai is used to take from fellow creators (well anyone in general) , including the disabled. Its still shitty to use gen despite all the net negative it brings.
It is impossible to train a generative neural network using only your data. There are literally billions of images needed for training. All “trained” networks in the “style” of artists are forms of either Stable Difusion or some other networks that have been “retrained”. So the base model has been trained on billions of images (LAION contains five billion) and the user simply uploads 100 more of their works to the network, which makes the result a little more similar to theirs and eases the user's conscience.
@@solarydays you are mistaken. The base model is comonly called a "foundation model". A few hundred images is not enough unless you have a foundation model. Several companies have trained foundation models, but many more have used Stable Diffusion as a base. Now here is the secret: billions of images is overkill. If you want to train your own model from scratch, you'll first need to find some way to obtain a working foundation model. "Synthetic pretraining": write a script to obtain many views of a handful of 3d models. Essentially the reason we can't do it with 100 or 200 is the 'random weights initialization'. These should be held aside for a second stage of training: fine-tuning [Lora, anyone?] You'll also want to limit your domain: ie only landscapes or only portraits.
@@solarydays I'm a college educated artist. I used to work for a major startup in AI art which was recently sold. I program for a living. I have trained both from scratch and fine tuning. My philosophy teacher used to say, when we assume it makes an 'ass' out of 'u' and 'me'.
@@solarydays you know something? You really should test your theory about training from scratch with 200 images... It's very simple to test. Just pull up the hugging-face example of training on butterflies via colab. By default it trains on 1000 images. Go ahead and limit the training to 200 images. Or have you already tested that theory?
honestly Yuumei is a great artist with great potential and Im fine with her point. I dont get why people are so against artists who use ai. I get the whole stolen non consentual art stuff and I do art but no one ever mentions anything against ai developping companies. I can assure that most of those people that are against Yuumei have used or experimented with ai generators but are fine with the existence since its advanced technology and makes life easier. There is always immense amounts of hate for artists but people those same people dont have the guts to go out and protest against the companies and developpers/development. Its crazy. Honestly I dont get why so many people are mad and disappointed at her as their fan when you can clearly do a search and everything is clear and evident. Some "fans" (not implying anyone in specific) just choose to ignore the fact and when the artist is in the center of blame, they finally decide to pull out their findings and blame someone who has been evident about their intentions and future works. You can be mad but forcing them to do something or being disappointed is crazy. Just unfollow, spread some awareness and then move on. Yall can argue and yeah it is wrong to use ai but she never hid it. People only care about what they want to see and say what they want to hear
13:00 That is not what she said? She supports the new advancements in AI because she wants to use it to train from her OWN art. AI is a tool in this day and age whether you like it or not, and she’s using it as ethically as possible. She’s not stealing other people’s work.
THANK YOU! I was like wait why is this chick twisting the narrative so badly she literally just said she's training it using HER own art to use in her comics like why is that so wrong lol?? I hate how youtubers feel to need to just see a problem where is really shouldn't be none.
all AI base models are trained on scraped works and images. they use enormous amounts of resources, PER IMAGE GENERATION. there IS no ethical way to use these currently.
@@CrazyToddler I know. Chatgpt was also tested off the underpaid labour of the Kenyan workers. But even then, nothing is done about it as everyone uses it. I’m just saying that hammering one artist about that point is meaningless. I said “ethically as she can” because training her own model is the best that can be done so long as AI is still legal.
No ai model comes blank. It’s been given information to learn from before she uses it. How do you know those training models don’t include stolen work?
@@wajmgirlThey don't. They scrape pictures that are captioned and use that data to bind concepts to outputs, exactly how a human looks at a piece of art and figures out how it is composed of several parts. At no point does an AI model actually contain the images used to train it.
There are places to make and upload your own art for custom models, you can also use other artists models with their permission. Personally I genuinely support this as people are making it themselves.
This doesn't make any sense. You can't be exposed when you aren't hiding anything. Being open and honest about a new tech is a bad thing somehow? Literally pointing out possible uses, and being excited for a way to use a new tool for art isn't any reason to hate on them.
7:00 I think for the "3rd wing"--if I were to try and explain it and maybe give Yuumei the benefit of the doubt--is supposed to be a bird "off screen", so it's actually two birds in that corner not one with an extra wing. But that's my personal interpretation after looking at it more closely.
Yuumei is always overly ambitious with her art, especialy comics. Each panel was very detail and could stand as an art piece on their own. She's been working on it for years and I get the thought of wanting to create everything or telling the stories with high standart, but she simply couldn't keep up with her own expectation. I ever read somewhere that Yuumei was learning to draw so hard that her hand is bleeding. That can also contribute to the unhealthy relationship with art, and wanted to do anything to achieve her goals
I’m not really surprised tbh, yuumei’s wrist injury seems to have severely affected her work. The thought of being able to create art just by typing your ideas must be extremely appealing to someone in her situation.
I think you guys are hearing "AI" and not paying attention to what she is actually saying. Which is that she supports AI usage as a tool and would use it *if she could train a model off of only her own art* and that she doesn't because she can't. Originally, she thought she could. Clearly since she is not using AI now she understands that AI images consist of stolen artwork. At least, thats how I interpreted her words. And honestly, I was (and to a degree, am) right there with her. If there was a way to train an AI model ONLY off of my artwork, I would use it to help myself overcome artblock and help me generate ideas in my own style. I don't use AI because I know the models floating around steal art from innocent artists who never consented for their art to be used in that way. But if I could get my hands on a model to train myself, on only my artwork, I would do it.
My only thing about training ai on your own art is the infrastructure was developed through art theft. Even if no other art is referenced other than own, the AI engine was built off stolen work
ai in art can be good if its transformative and quite literally used as a tool. the generated image is original but made with the style thats stolen from others. so if you keep it and change the style to be your own, then the aspect thats stolen is gone. i dont think people should be penalized the moment they hear "AI" when it comes to artists, but rather penalize only if theres minimal editing. or god forbid people that dont even do anything and try to claim the generated image is theirs. i personally use ai for composition but i create the art myself. i cant really imagine things in my head, i dont get mental images. plus when i know what i want and i search for references, its always never what im actually thinking of. so ai generating the pose and composition helps me. whats generated still only fits 60% of what i imagine, but thats completely fine anyway as i ensure my piece strays from the ai reference i use. also i only use it for rough pose and composition, not specifics because ai is bad for that. i use real references for specifics. but yeah, i do believe ai can be a tool (though i think it should be a paid service and the artists whos work is trained off, should get a cut. however while i agree with this persons sentiment on it being a tool, they didnt really transform what was generated much. at the end of the day, art is about creativity and i didnt really see much there.
this sucks so bad 😭 I’ve been following Yuumei since middle school and love her comics so much. why do talented and successful artists feel the need to do this……
I think they may be exhausted and over worked. They have depended on art for their livelihood for so long it has become not only a way of life, but a PRODUCT, and thus lost the inherent virtuous love of making art.
@@DaShikuXI Let me guess, you care about product and not the experience of creating, right? Well it´s a crap product, and you still can´t create jack. Lose - lose situation there.
Yuumei, for the lack of a better word, has always been an activist. She has always been an environmentalist and her works carry heavy messages.
For someone like that to use AI this blatantly, I am honestly just shocked.
Ngl...im disappointed
Especially considering the fact that AI is so energy intensive, to the point where drinking water is being diverted to the server farms performing these “machine learning” operations. That’s really sad
Why?
given with how much energy AI uses, that it uses more than a city and being an environmentalist... that is just sad at this point..
@@dempos 16:44-16:55 and 17:03- 17:09
those are basically sums what they meant and why people disappointed at Yuumei ^^
TL:DR: the artist is an environmental activist, yet using a tool that well-known to waste a lot of energy to generate AI answers, let alone images and try to equate cheating using AI is basically the same with using 3D models or free brushes
A lot of people missed the part that AI uses so much energy and it's terrible for the environment and Yuumei does a lot of environmental activist art.
I worry for our future. Art has kept us going for MANY years. It was our entertainment, our therapy, our kill, our appreciation for nature. People got more fame and appreciation showing off that work and that’s how they built their legacy. Showing the world a part of them. But now nothing has meaning. Songs are ai, movies are ai, drawings are all ai. You can hardly tell what’s real anymore. Art is losing all meaning and every day our world becomes more dull. It’s why people always talk about missing time years ago. When you were free to express yourself in so many ways. Where ai wasn’t taking that from you.
A lot of people fail to realize this issue is fixed and fast, take cryptocurrency, once extremely energy intensive, it is now energy efficient. Every developing technology will not be efficient to start but it will become efficient. The biggest issue with AI is simply put the art theft, but even then the cat is out of the bag, any new regulations will only harm individuals, while the corporations win out once again.
🙄
Yeah, saying that, as a human, they also create carbon dioxide is an idiotic response. Ok, sure, turn that off when you’re not using it???
You’d be producing Co2 either way, whether you’re sleeping, eating, or creating. That’s not a valid argument.
I’ve also seen bros on AI wars commenting on the fact that one generated image using the equivalent energy to charging your phone saying “I use it on my phone, it uses a lot of power but it doesn’t drain the phone, come on!”
The claim it uses that much energy isn’t that it will drain your phone, idiots. It’s that the power across the generation engines and the machine inputting the prompt use that much power! And that doesn’t take into account the building of the LLMS.
Sounds like a bad joke. lul
It was especially disappointing and hypocritical that Yuumei had complained about her artwork being stolen for NFTs and the environmental impact of NFTs, yet handwaved away the environmental impact of AI in her recent megapost 8:48
bro shes using her own pictures, who gives a fuck?
why the hell do people who already have skills need shit like this
@@Mojaveknight17spamming this in comments won’t make it true
@@Mojaveknight17yo mum is just a tool
@@AuxDroid True? It's a Fact.
@@Mojaveknight17it’s a fact it’s not a tool for anything but theft
@AuxDroid It's a tool for INSPIRATION but not to claim it as your own piece. There's a difference
I’ve been following yuumei for more than a DECADE-I learned about them when I was just a kid, and really appreciated their focus on mixing art with environmentalism. So, this AI thing is like a double whammy, considering how AI is draining water and accelerating climate change.
If I remember correctly, yuumei initially went to UC Berkeley for compsci before switching to art, so I have to wonder if she’s always had “tech bro” tendencies. Kinda wild considering how she practiced so much her hands literally got injured and mentioned art practically SAVING her while struggling with an abusive family situation 💀
How does AI drain water and accelerate climate change? Not saying it doesn’t but I’m just confused about that since I don’t know much about AI
@@UltimateDissapointment because it's use database to match the description of the thing some person type in the program. It kinda like mining bitcoin
Yeah you are right she does have “tech-bro” behaviour and tendencies no wonder she was using ai
She's likely the one of the most qualified people to have an opinion on AI art though. She knows both sides unlike most artists.
Does this not make you rethink your stance on AI at least a little bit?
@@Allyfyn theres no "both sides" she just bought the slogans and hype instead of analysing the pros and cons, she chose laziness
Key note about generators that "only use my artwork", etc. That is an impossiblity. It's focused through select artwork, but it still has pretraining (usually LAION) that uses uncredited/stolen pieces.
This. If we're generous, maybe she doesn't understand the tech. But that doesn't change that the model is trained nonconsentually on the art of others, even if she only feeds it her own art.
@@unturned6066 If it were possible to do it without pre-training, or someone were to develop a robust, credited, and compensated pre-training database, they might have a point (just don't mention deskilling or the havoc on the enviroment.) But no, EVERYONE uses the same, bland, stolen databases that were developed under everyone's noses, back when people didn't even realize the scraping was happening.
1. You dont know what generator was used, you dont know the datasets used.
2. If you understand the tech, explain the training, explain why training is needed and explain what diffussion is.
3. if you actually understand that, the debate is not about theft, is about what is intelligence. "Stolen pieces" is a wrong term to use.
@@mikeparradise9333 1. Don't really need to when everyone uses the same, stolen pre-training databases. But by all means, if there are pre-training databases out there with A) enough content to be useful, B) uses only credited work, and C) pays in perpetuity all the creatives it takes works from, feel free to use that with the confidence your dog poop smells like rosebuds.
2. Certainly. If you just run a machine learning function based on your own art, you aren't going to get good results because that's not a lot of data to formulate your function on. That's why Very early on, and continuing to modern day, groups like OpenAI and LAION scrape the internet for anything and everything, to create a dataset on which you can then add your custom data onto, to actually have enough data in the first place.
3. It's not, but nice little non-sequator. Stolen pieces (IE pieces incorperated into the development of tools, wherein the actual creators of the references saw not dime nor credit) is perfectly suited for the situation. BTW Sampling =/= learning, Statisics is not a great model to base your intelligence on, and even if it were you'd still just be spritzing the dog poop with expensive perfume (having ignored both enviromental impacts, actual impacts on workflows/creative labor markets, and the neurological effect that having a robot do your skill for you can have, ie deskilling.)
@@mikeparradise9333It’s useless. AI bad and that’s it🧏🏾♀️
As a 3D Artist, getting real tired of hearing people use 3D as an excuse for why AI should be used more. I make the models and texture them bro, a program doesn't create them for me.
* Me being engineer and using generative design to optimize shapes * : who will tell him?
It automatically colors, shades and renders the light for you, as an artist You probably know that rendering in drawings takes a lot more effort than the setup right?
But in 3D, rendering is fast because the SETUP is what takes effort, if you want something to look a specific way, it ain't gonna create that for you.
I can see AI having a very similar process, if we want the art to look and feel a certain way, we gotta make a LOT of hand made reference material, AND guide the output, the more we do that, the more the art will match the vision.
3D is the same, we can use assets yes, but good luck finding assets that match what's in our head.
AI is the same because it can't read minds, we gotta show it ourselves.
Hey just to clear things up, that post was referring to blank 3D mannequins to help 2D artists with posing and lighting. This sparked a massive controversial debate on 2D artists "not bothering to learn", dynamic posing, anatomy, or lighting. Since they could just copy the pose and shadows of the 3D model. Those against the 3D mannequins were arguing that it's essentially the same thing as tracing. It's still pretty up for debate, but for the most part, it's now seen as a tool to output things like comics and manga at an accelerated pace. They weren't actually referring to 3D art and design itself.
I think she still sells at least one of her AI assisted works as prints or downloads. So she is profiting off it as much as she said she won't.
Do you have a source for this?
Is it the Kiki delivery service fanart?
Only the Kiki Delivery piece backgrounds were confirmed by herself. There is more, but idk if put for sale.
@@Tamaki742no, the ones that she painted over the background. The girl with the window and library with ivy ones
Regardless if she is or isnt we know she can draw but her injuries are holding back and this is the exact reason why AI is necessary to help lessen the workload for someone like this.
She can still use her skills but she cannot draw for long periods of time anymore so AI assisting her is a good thing regardless of ethics.
Sorry, but if an artist flat out supports AI art and uses it, they will get people accusing them of using AI art. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. 🤷
yes once you are caught doing it you will always be assumed to be using it, and you should be
frrrr they used it previously... and then they thought all of their art wasn't going to be put under the lense after that???
The fact she heavily promotes saving the environment while supporting ai, which uses a lot of energy and uses drinking water to cool the machines, while wildfires and drought are so prevalent in certain areas. It’s like someone driving a supercar using lots of gas while having a sign that says to save the environment on it…
Would you rather somebody be inconsistent or just consistently bad?
Don't worry, A.I can figure out a way to fix that too.
@@blackwater7183 pick up a pencil lil bro
@@butter-qv4wt You watch vtubers, who you calling lil?
@@shauryatiwary5996 and so do you. Who are you calling "lil"?
Bro i had a friend i drew free artwork for put my shit into an AI programmed and showed it to me like i was going to be flattered.
I will never support this shit.
Dude what? Without your consent too? That’s YOUR art and they put it in a AI program when you don’t even support it..
@@dancingwiththelilys yeah I don't do free art for them anymore
Ooooooffff, this hurt my soul so much :
Online friend I’m guessing
@@abdeaubacktayes750 no, unfortunately it was an irl friend
I just feel sad when an artist says that "ai is a good thing! it will help with my work a lot!" if you don't like making art why would you want to make art in the frist place?
I feel like the only exception is do is something like coloring animations. Because lord that shit is tedious
Yeah, agreed. :c
Like...I understand wanting to speed up the process sometimes. I hate figuring out backgrounds for my characters to be in. I still struggle with perspective and having that issue crop up constantly can lead to art block/burnout. I'm working with some 3D programs to help relearn the basics.
Which is one thing ai takes away- learning on your own.
It also takes away the possibility of making an art friend that is really good at backgrounds! (Or whatever you need help with)
And I know they have health issues, but again... why not make art friends who would love to collab with you and help you make your art??
I dont mind when its like, someone training their own ai with THEIR own art. Theres a popular japanese artist on pinterest that does this and its quite nice but he doesn't sell them or claim its hand drawn yk?
I feel like making art in the last 10 years or so has been reduced to how quickly and efficiently it can be produced. The industry doesn’t care about how long something took to create. We all unknowingly bought into this with IG. Some of us wanted fame and status and posted like mad people to keep up with what the algorithm wanted. Now we find ourselves fighting against the very monster we help build. I personally dont care whether art is Ai or not becuase I have no skin in the game. I do traditional art as a hobby and dabble with digital art from tme to time. I would someday like to sell my art but im not at that point yet. I dont like AI art but I dont really dislike it either. If people want to use it to assist them then let them. Stick to what works for you and don't throw hate or jealousy. We are all free to follow what we want in this life so when someone doesn't do what you want them to do that's your problem, not theirs.
right
Yuumei's most recent post on insta talks about how she suffers sever pain in her wrists from overworking. Likely she has permanent damage to her wrist so she likely cant keep up with the swift tides of the algorithm. This doesn’t excuse this, but it might explain where she's coming from
its a contrary thing for her to use AI after she made climate change awareness pieces when California wild fires were ravaging the area she lived in. its kinda shitty to see someone who was trying to bring awareness to the damage humans are bringing to this world and causing natural disasters to be more prevalent and then become a bigger part of the problem by using AI to do their work.
Why would it need to be excused anyway?
@@batty-bites3185I agree that it's bad. But I'm also an artist on Instagram who's burnt myself out to the point of wrist issues so I know how terrifying that can be. People make shitty decisions when they're stressed, that doesn't make her irredeemable especially since she's already seeming started changing her stance on the topic. Yeah it was hypocritical but I don't vibe with how someone can do more than a decade of good work, make one mistake and then suddenly all that good work is magically void. I think she's earned some grace after how much she's done.
Anyone who's followed Yuumei knows about the wrist/hand damage. That knowledge has been around for years and years and usually brought up periodically for reminder. She was never an algorithm poster and no follower of hers has ever expected that. Everyone was content to wait and see the next piece when it came along, because it'd be worth it. I can understand wanting to get a project moving at a better pace, probably also worrying for a time when maybe she just can't use her hands for art anymore. But it's such a betrayal, a hypocrisy with the environmentalism. This is soul crushing. There's so many other ways.
@@batty-bites3185 It looks like most of her confirmed uses of AI predate the wildfires, right?
As someone who had RSI for years and got cured, here's what worked for me: lots of stretching, 45m of work followed by a 15m break and... the last thing the doctor suggested was martial arts. Hitting targets can do wonders not only for your mental health, but your shoulder, arm and wrist will thank you for it.
And I do use 3D for comics, and teach some of it, BUT with a grain of salt: I do not use premade models regardless is they are free or not, I learned how to model myself. Therefore, the art style becomes consistent. As for AI, sadly, regulations might take a long time to happen... look at screenwriters, authors, animators and of course, us... the number of layoffs is growing.
But the saddest thing of all is the general sense of panic and accusation happening inside the art community. It used to be such an uplifting place.
I'm in the process of recovering from RSI it's good to hear from a fellow artist who also recovered ❤❤
@@pickledshoe keep going strong! You can do it!!! 🥰
I completely agree. Used to be so enthusiastic about joining the community more and meeting a lot of artists. But the accusations and judgment of who's a "real" artist just takes a lot out of me
But do you think it is a bad thing for Yuumei to be using AI? I thought it was actually nice to see this cotroversial tool be actually benefic to an artist. It feels like people are just thinking AI == Bad.
@daishisetsuko9743 if AI were trained of ethically sourced images people would not be so upset but I don't know if an ethically trained AI would be possible.
"Drawing uses electricity" yeah, but like, there's different levels. AI generators are known to be SUPER bad
Exactly, most drawing tablet’s don’t need drinking water to cool them…
It's a matter of scale. AI is heavy computational statistical math in the end. It requires a lot of power in comparison to lonely cg artist.
not even some of the most powerful pcs can run ai its so bad for the environment
Wait until you find out how bad using the internet is for the environment, and yet none of you are talking about that.
@@ashtonphoenyx that’s like saying murder is okay because driving cars also kills people sometimes, theres a huge difference in the impact of both
Ai uses way more drinking water and energy than simply using internet by an insane amount
I remember this artist from yeeeaaars ago mentioning that she had severe wrist issues, so she had to go really into finding alternatives to help her, such as using 3D models and such. I'm not surprised that she just picked up AI like it was nothing, since for her it's really just another tool to give herself a break for her wrist, and for time.
I'm guessing she does not fully understand that it was created using non-consentual art theft.
i remember hearing a tip from a professional artist called Marc Brunet who said you should draw from the shoulder instead of the wrist, idk if her wrist injuries have anything to do with that, but it just reminded me of it, so i just wanted to say, if anyone else has wrist pain as an artist try using your shoulder to move your hand, moving your pencil instead!
@@sorbethearti agree with this 😅😅
A few years ago, AI art could have looked like the answer to her prayers. She was losing her ability to make art, and here's this thing that could not just allow her to continue making art, but continue making it in her own style. It really takes a deeper understanding of the tech to understand the ethical problems, and the public debate was just not happening until recently.
I literally saw an artist use their feet to draw digitally, if theres a will theres a way
I believe I know which artist you’re talking about. I recently saw one on X about two-three weeks ago. “Where there’s a will, there’s a way!”
Who? I want to see their art!
Is it kauchama? They groomed someone 😭
"People already use my art to feed AI, hence it's the more sad that people accuse my 100% hand drawn painting as AI without any evidence." why does that bother her when she endorses AI herself? She should be okay with people thinking that her work is AI since: "it's the future" right? Like girl, c'mon.
it bothers her bc she made it and people are accusing her of.....not making it? tf are you on about? also yeah she supports ETHICAL uses of AI, aka tranning ai on your OWN work therefor not stolen to help YOUR procsses with comics. a 10 year comic can take 4 using ai tools.
@@dobbiereals The way Ai is right now there is no ethical way to use it. You can’t be mad that people accuse you of it if you endorse it. The way she’s upset about being accused of it, is the same way it’s hurting a lot of artists that started posting their work recently and getting scrutinised over every little detail. I just think it’s rich for her to cry about the accusations.
This part bothered me too as it almost feels like she’s trying to blame people for the way Ai is being used with her art but then she proceeds to use it with her art too either way like a double standard. it’s just so contradictory in a way.
@@xMilkyLemon thats just not ture CSP already use ethical ai tools, so do most photoshop soft wears.
you people are forgetting AI isnt new. its been around for a while. most ai isn't stolen imagen generation.
she not crying, shes saying what you guys dont want to hear. Ai IS a useful tool just like the fill bucket it. you can keep lying saying it cant be ethical when its been used in animation, and made animators job alot easier way before ai art even became the issue it is now.
@@Ajax-120 its not contradictory. The way AI is being used (stealing artist work) is bad. but shes not doing that. her AI is going to be tranned of if her OWN art, so SHE can use it. there is nothing wrong with it.
I've followed her for well over a decade now. She was one of the first few artists I refollowed when I moved to my new (at the time 😅) DeviantART account. I remember thinking she was so cool and revolutionary. I was there when she was working on Axent Wear and I desperately wanted cat ear headphones as a teen. I was there when she started using 3D models for her comics. I felt mixed about it, but ultimately thought it was a smart idea since it would lessen the strain on her hands. I loved her work and I would spend hours just staring at her pieces.
So to find out that she is in support(?) of generative AI, it was massively disappointing. It hurts, but not too badly since I haven't been keeping up with her since the mass exodus of DeviantART.
I'm not sure who to believe, so I blocked her just in case and figured it's for the best since I barely keep up with her nowadays.
Y don't you want cat ear headphones now?
@@blackwater7183 I honestly don't know! I feel like I'd end up breaking one of the ears.
She was one of the first artists I found in Deviantart around 2014 and was one of my favorite artists but like many of my favorite artists, she spoke about her hand pain and I realized I didn’t want to become like her. I still ended up with severe hand pain and a decade later was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis. When my symptoms started to appear, I immediately began developing a simpler art style that looked both stylish and was quick to draw with less effort as my realistic art. I still followed her for her environmental beliefs but looked at art less when I moved on to focusing on my life. It is really shocking and disappointing that she spoke so positively about AI art. Yuumei, even though we are hurting, this is not the way. There are plenty of ways to make art easier for ourselves and our health. The solution is simpler than it seems.
I FUCKING HATE that Yuumei is using her disability as an excuse, I have a wrist injury at the moment but that doesn't make me want to use ai??? Like wtf?? If you love and respect art as a medium why would you use ai??? I just don't get it 🧍. And to those saying "It's a learning tool guys!"
Why do you reference off of ai when it can't even draw hands right???? Make it make sense. Sure, ai does look pretty from afar but when you look closer you see all of the big mistakes a human just wouldn't make. I'm disappointed in Yuumei.
no exactly, I have issues with my wrist but I take breaks and do hand exercises to take care of myself. I can’t believe Yuumei would do something like this and not even disclose it to her audience either 😢 I had to find out through this video that she uses AI…imagine the people looking up to her that compare their art to hers and meanwhile she’s doing that. First Ergojosh and now Yuumei, I have no words.
i get it but wrist injury is not a disability
@@Stilipluth ...It's literally in the word. Dis-ability. You know, like dis-content, not content. Not able. Not able to draw because of the injury. A disability.
@@ShaCarothat’s not a disability she just isn’t able to now, but she will in the future. A disability makes it where you can’t ever without accommodations
I literally pushed through the pain of a nasty wasp sting on my hand that bled and swelled up just to practice for some little local art contest ages ago. Would've done it all the same - if AI art was a thing back then, I wouldn't have be it any different, because I felt as though I leveled up my art, and it felt like such a triumph. I still keep the art I made at that point in time, even over a decade later.
Wasps and AI: 0
Human artist: 1
Checkmate, AI bros
I said a big piece on Facebook about this already but I'm a disabled artists. I have made art with splints on. I absolutely hate when people use accessibility as an excuse for shitty behaviour and doubling down. As far as I was aware they have never actually addressed the fact they were openly pro GenAI and said they want to do it more. They never used it in that piece and got so upset when people questioned it and still never addressed their current stance on AI use going forward.
Artists using AI is like finding out your friend got bit by a zombie and they try to hide it
yuumei's stance on Ai is only some big artist can have. if youre already as successful and influential as yuumei, Ai wont be able to affect your livelihood hence you can just throw your hands and say : this is not my battle 🤷♀
Young artists still need experience to use AI properly
Or ANY form of art, AI can generate pretty images but it can't read minds, unless you show it, it's not gonna give you exactly what you want
On top of the whole AI ethics issue, the fact a huge part of Yuumei's work/brand has revolved around environmental and human rights activism really adds to fire. For her to just turning around going "well i use a computer/electricity and create a carbon footprint, so what difference does it make?" while completely ignoring the STATISTICAL DATA of how much the rise of AI has being detrimental to the environment makes her look like a huge hypocrite. Plus the way she takes this whole controversy as a personal attack instead of people criticizing her contradicting the values she's advocated for OVER A DECADE is what's damaging her image.
As for her justifying using AI because of her physical disability... not included in your video, someone asked her "why don't you hire assistants?" to help with her workload, which is NOT uncommon for comic artists to hire help to for backgrounds/colouring etc... she replied "with what money?" makes me facepalm cause i realized she doesn't see the bigger problem here.
Artists > need to draw to make money
Art > already inherently does not have a lot of value in the west (especially digital art)
For artists to make money > have to make a lot of art, often at the expense of their own health
AI > devalues art even more due to market oversaturation and quick production turn over
Artists > have to make even more art to make money to live > damage their health even more
Conclusion: AI does not help artists, AI will exasperate the problem and make it harder for artists to succeed in this industry. If Yuumei could comfortably make a living off her art without straining her body, she wouldn't feel the need to rely on AI to "keep up" with the industry (cause in the end, she won't be making it easier for herself, she will have to work even harder). It really just makes her look like she values money > her art and values.
Her whole argument about "people being against 3D/CSP brush assets at first" is not equivalent to the AI issue. I remember this, most people arguing against 3D/CSP brushes were a small vocal minority of elitists or ignorant non-artists who do not understand the art process... more mature artists Got It and understood that they were TOOLS (created with consent of the asset's creator to be used as a tool), so her using it as comparison to the criticism of AI is a mole hill next to a mountain. AI CANNOT be considered a tool if it cannot be not done ethically.
WITH WHAT MONEY? SHES ONE OF THE BIGGEST OG VIRAL ARTISTS SHE CANT SERIOUSLY CLAIM TO NOT HAVE ENOUGH MONEY TO PAY FOR AID
@@batty-bites3185 I know we can't assume that that her income is proportionate to her social media following plus if you factor in her cost of living situation (seeing as she lives in US/California + any medical bills)...
But by looking at her patreon, which HAD over 5k members (she's lost over a thousand since this controversy broke out, so its now sitting at 3.8k~) plus her other side hustles... we can assume she probably makes at least $40k-60k+ annually not including taxes... so i'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt that she might not be able to afford help... but it's still hmmmmm
Tbh, I think that Yuumei brings up some interesting points in theory.
For example, generating images to use for backgrounds to then paint over and photobash and add onto is pretty tempting to speed up the more tedious aspects of a painting to grow a business or account. It's also great to use for idea development. It's also obvious she knows how to draw and she doesn't rely on AI to create her pieces. She's turning the pieces that AI generates into her own by so heavily painting over them.
But there is some hypocritical aspects to her as well. Seeing her so vehemently reject NFTs and bring up the environmental impact and all that stuff, but go hog wild for AI which is also known for copyright and climate problems is a problem. She also doesn't seem to understand that while something can be trained off of her own art, it was pre-trained with tons of other art beforehand to function properly. It doesn't seem like she's looking at all sides.
It's so jarring to see them tweet that about the enviromental concerns, when I was active on DA they had such strong oppinions about air quality, pollution, littering and made multiple artworks to bring awareness to the issue. I get that AI can be used as an artistic tool and can lessen the workload but this aint the way, maybe in the future when AI isnt so scummy, but rn its not good to be excited about taking unethical shortcuts like this as an artist.
As an artist, if I became unable to draw due to wrist pain/damage I would look for ways to create art without relying so heavily on my hands. And if I did feel the urge to make aI images to see certain ideas brought to my screen I would only ever generate those images for myself, not for others to see while claiming they’re my work.
I would not
I draw in 12k resolution and by hand and that includes tiny detail no one gonna see without zooming in
Their reputation is permanently damaged for getting corrupted into an AI bro
Deserved felling off
This is so incredibly disappointing and disheartening to hear about. I've looked up to Yuumei for years, to hear she's not only using AI, but also dismissing the environmental impact of it and refuses to acknowledge that AI steals from other artists is just...It feels grimey. Like, super gross. I don't think I'll ever be able to look at another piece by her ever again without going "is this AI?" now, and she only did it to herself by so openly supporting AI.
Also with her being an enviromentalist/using it as most of their art themes... And then using AI
top 10 anime betrayals
(i loved their artstyle
i mean, what did she really do? train ai based on her own art to speed up the processes and be more efficient? using ai as a tool isnt wrong as ling as its not stealing art. AI tools for auto coloring in art platforms is already pretty common. if the ai she used had stolen art id she why what she did was wrong.
@@dobbiereals She'd not be able to do that without using some off the shelf training to supplant her own works. And those ones largely are full of stolen/uncredited works.
@@RobertStoll thats just not true. shes has thousands of artworks through the years and she would also be making artworks directly for tranning and reffrance for AI.
do you also not pay attention? she also said in the future she'd do these things when AI is more advanced, makes less mistakes, needs less work to imput etc etc.
@@dobbiereals every single AI generative model has its base training, and continued training, done on stolen and uncredited works. there is NO way to ONLY use your own works unless you start an entire new model from scratch which so far i havent seen anybody do. in addition, a SINGLE image uses what? an ENTIRE citys worth of resources? thats grossly unsustainable, and incredibly selfish to want to doom the planet and resources we need just to generate a few images. nevermind the mass theft, and many of those AI companies charging money to use their generators, so you are paying to use stolen works, which is generally both morally and legally a no no.
The bird doesn't have three wings, it's another bird behind the bird above which is why you see another wing.
missed the "exposed!!!" part when the artist was literally vocal about using ai for years
I've been a fan of their work for over a decade. I loved Fisheye Placebo, and Yuumei's environmental activism in their art overall. For someone like that to openly support and use AI was so disillusioning, especially that they've complained about their art being stolen for NFTs and AI before. I also noticed Yuumei has an account on Cara, which has a very strong anti-AI stance. All of this suggests that Yuumei is a self-serving person, a pretty gross character flaw.
Some of the earlier AI uses I think were okay, like the older AI stuff before midjourney was stuff that wasn't trained on stolen copyrighted work afaik, such as clip studio's auto colorise tool. (Unless I'm wrong about it and was trained on copyrighted stolen work, pls correct me) Things like those AI inbetweening softwares or AI image upscalers or (i forgot the name but that software that could overlay a painting onto video with a reference image) might look bad but they weren't illegal and were here long before the big horrible mass image stealing 'AI' companies came along, and I'm pretty sure they were trained on work they were given permission to use/ commissioned work (the older AI stuff i mean, not the newer 2022 onwards stuff). The technology of LLMs isn't evil in and of itself, Spiderverse used something like that to draw the expression lines on the 3D models, and they paid an artist to train those off of with their consent, but those greedy companies like Midjouney scraping the internet and mass feeding an AI and the people who enable those are the ones in the wrong.
I don't know about clip studio''s auto colorize tool, but I know Krita has floated a "fast lineart" tool that uses a neural network to pretrain. It isn't very inspired (really none of these "tools" that statistisize art are,) but you can get closer to a blurred line if it's locally applied code that doesn't connect to a larger server and was essentially "coded" via neural network alone (with credited/compensated data of course.)
i mean even if it was how much can you claim stolen colors? for the clip studio thing? for flat colours i mean
@@dobbiereals No, but if someone uses your pictures to tune a tool to figure out, say, where the colors of coats generally are, and don't pay you or credit you, then they have actually ripped you off. Especially if it's in payware like Clip Studio.
Clip Studio's AI is more a problem of AI being too broad of a word. They've been making in-house AI for years now that's more like shortcuts and "dumb" tools e.g content aware fill and recently dynamic/"realistic" color mixing. They've had to do a couple of apology tours the past few years because people misunderstood and jumped to the worst conclusion.
Their only direct interaction with generative AI was in an update last year that was undone in days because of the backlash and hasn't been touched since
That's because there's a difference between AI as a basic concept (artificial intelligence that *is* a tool) and *Generative* AI (the thing that is fed stolen work and creates new images).
Discourse on the Internet often isn't clear and precise with words, so I can see the confusion here.
Hearing some artists talk about AI is like listening to coal mine owners talk about clean power
I think she posted around 2012 about brigading against an art thief, and I questioned her as a large audience creator to weaponize her crowd against a single person. It wasn't about reporting copyright, or being proactive, it was just an open ask to harass this person until they removed her art. Considering her past, I'm not surprised at all she would feel entitled to use AI to cut corners. I quit following her after that drama, she came off as toxic back then as well.
Wow. What a toxic person.
Over in my country, a legendary comic artist, Ujang, advocates for AI. Despite the criticisms he received, he still will use AI. Worse is since his platform is Facebook, a lot of his fans SUPPORT AI.
Malaysia?
The name sounds familiar
The general public likes AI. That's just a fact. The people who are against it are just a minority that nobody is going to give a shit about.
@@yuki97kira Yup, Malaysia
That's so unfortunate 😢 you'd think big artists could advocate against AI since they know the struggle of having art stolen and uncredited etc.
My grandpas BIL’s family used AI to write his eulogy. He was in shock.
As a comic creator, I will love to have new tool that can transfer all the images in my mind, 1 to 1, perfectly angle with exact details and consistency, to the comic page so I can focus on creating my stories, and ai is not that tool. Artists who painted over ai or use it to create their og or backgrounds don’t value their creation. Ai can’t create images exactly what you wants, so using ai is letting technology take over your mind. You’re not controlling it like a tool.
There are ML models that can be trained on your own art and be used a tool. The Spiderverse movies have an implementation of this. It helps them with animating. I doubt that kind of tech is available for small scale commercial use, but it is possible
(Warning this is a book, save yourself and ignore this comment, I get heated a bit with this, I started watching Kat because her take on AI interest me, to listen to the other side, but due to my mental state I got super annoyed lol. I'm sure some of my points are just confusing and/or Bias as heck, but I still wanted to post this comment. Have a lovely day/noon/night)
First off, is ALL ai tools made with stealing other peoples art? is this confirmed? Or is it just fear mongering full of assumption? Some have been proven, like on deviantart originally all artwork was going to be fed into their AI system, later they fixed it where you can check off a box to allow that to happen or not. The damage was already done I'm sure in my view but we can't say ALL ai tools is stolen to make new art unless confirmed.
I don't see the problem of using AI art as a tool said many times in my comments, we are told to reference many diff things to make a piece, AI does that when it makes new pieces doesn't it? This artist then takes it step further to make the AI art their own vs turning around and posting the work as finished right from the AI. This isn't exposing even, if the artist has been open of their use of AI in the past? They weren't hiding it then?
You have a right to dislike Ai use, but this artist was using it as a tool (not 100% how I wish they were using it far as I can tell, but we don't know where the AI starts and where their actual work ends), no reason to suddenly shun the artist. You're treating them as a criminal at this point. idk, I'm still in favor of using ai art as tool, if it's done right.
2:42 I have used 3D models in art softwares, and my hands have come out like this. The fingers aren't fusing together like AI do, or look broken, that hand looks correct to me. HECK I even screenshot this image to double check used a 3D model in my Clip studio and I could match that hand 99% the same, the thumb was the only issue, but at this point it looks like a style choice with the pose.
3:04 the birds are blending into the canvas, and it's not four wings, those are two bird silhouettes close together! come on :c It looks weird to you because one of the birds are apart of the painting vs the other one still outside of the painting. (least it's brought up again, but she still doesn't see it as 2 birds lol)
3:18 It's because the shading of the hand and the brush are close to each other, a way to have fixed that is adding one small little black line. Alot of areas of the artwork has sketchy linework where it's just color in places instead of complete lines, it's a style. And this one spot was a unfortunate turn because of the style. At least how I'm visually reading it.
5:47 Personally, I don't know this artist, but I've known of this artist for 16 years, Few years after I made a deviantart account, all artists try to cut corners, otherwise digital artists wouldn't be a thing. What is wrong with them using AI as tool? What if it helps them have less strain on their hand? What if they only use it a little. Their art has been outstanding WAY before AI software was even a thing. So to shun them at face value like just reading a title of a news article and calling it a day, is a little disheartening in itself.
5:53 where? where are the crooked lines? Go back and look at their work from like 2012 when they used 3D backgrounds they'd paint over. their "crooked lines" is them just not using a linetool =table flip= Some styles aren't perfect when it comes to perfectly straight things irl.
14:28 What is wrong with wanting to use a new tool if it'll benefit the artist in someway. She's been vocal about her hand issues, so what? She just has to let her hand become messed up? Take long breaks when she needs to make money even if making art is her job? Nothing wrong with testing the waters with AI tools. Be neat if could feed our own style into an AI (privately) to help us visual a work we want to do or AI to set up a 3D scene for us to reference from vs us setting it up ourselves. When time is money vs a hobby new tools to help us speed up our process is amazing and efficient. Like I said, Digital artists wouldn't be a thing otherwise.
It's frustrating when we want to try something new, then all our art suddenly become AI generated in the eyes of others. Also frustrating that the title of this video is SO click bait, and all the years this artist has gone through is thrown out the window and "oh now I'm dissapointed in this person because they support something I don't like" uggh. They don't 100% support it, there is still MANY flaws in AI tools, it's just a matter of time it'll be a useful tool and it's just not there yet. Fine be SUS of "artists" that have no artistic background, and suddenly are posting pretty art, but bashing someone that actually wants to use it as a TOOL vs using as a Completed art piece. I..sigh. History repeats itself with the blind hate and it's heart breaking when a use of something is blanketed as the same thing when the process is completely different.
17:34 I'm confused about this, If someone did read this book can you explain to me what echo stuff they're talking about? Maybe I'm googling it wrong but saw nothing about how AI effects the environment.
19:00 That's a great alternative, but I still think AI tool should still be explored, improved, and hopefully one day they'll be as ethical as any other software (though some purists can and will still be out there). AI tools are just not there yet, Least some artists are trying to use it as a tool vs a finished product, and shouldn't be shunned for that the moment other's realize their stance, at this point it turns into toxic politics. Plz no. Just wait and see how things are in the future before chop blocking someone.
Where can i read the book? You just spoke my mind
Also a few notes: the tech to use AI for original controlled work is actually there, there's a plugin for Krita that guides the drawing and can use bother trained models and references from control net, there was also Invoke AI but less advanced in terms of drawing tools
Almost every AI service (including many free tiers) have model training now, I think artists and people in general just held on to the initial "AI is prompting only" and never checked the tech advancement since 2 years
@@ComplexAce Well, I mean if you click "read more" you'd see the book? lol
Alot of times people say my comments are like a book because of how long they can get. 😅
yee, I didn't bring it up in this comment but other comments I made in the past I brought up Krita
The down side though of using the plugin is we don't know for sure if the stuff is stolen or not. I wish They's just have a bunch of artists on payroll that give the okay to use their art for the AI learning, then no one can say boo XD the only issue is "it's stolen" even though all art by artists is the same thing in a way, a collage learned from other artists. The only diff is the Ai is taking from other work vs referencing from other work to make new work.
Once these AI softwares have confirmed consent I wonder if people will still hate it.
Still think people shouldn't use this work as a final product, Even if it's not just prompt now, people are still not using their own efforts to make something (none of the rendering is their own effort/art). Use the prompt + trained models, etc. To make something you'd use as a reference. Then from scratch remake the work in your own style and effort (no tracing either unless it's to learn some strokes)
@K1nla I missed the joke the first time :v
But I read the whole comment
Krita's plugin can connect to a custom setup actually
Basically you can use your own trained models in it, it's local so it's completely customizable
I would disagree about rendering and final result, because you could say the same thing about 3D, it auto shades and remders based on the setup
But that's the thing, it needs a LOT of good setup to work as intended, unlike drawing directly.
I can see AI working in a similar fashion, the concept, art style, and actual drawing needs to be done by an artist, and done in a way the AI understands
Otherwise all we'd get is a random disconnected mush, very far from the intended concepts and target aesthetic/feel
@ the environment argument.
The training and usage of deep-learning generative AI consumes a LOT of electricity. This is well-documented, by the way - it's a problem. Even making some 3D models over a week or so and doing a quick render of the scene, and then turning that into a full painting over a few more weeks doesn't take as much electricity as using generative AI for a very small amount of time. Not only that, but the computers and server banks the AI uses generate a huge amount of heat, which contributes to global warming, and requires cooling via (drinkable!) water, which itself contributes additionally to droughts (on top of the global warming thing, which also doesn't help).
This is an issue in of itself, don't get me wrong, but it's worsened by the fact that Yuumei is and always has been an environmental activist. So much of her art is about saving the planet, about stopping global warming, about stopping oilspills and dumping plastic in the ocean. So much of her art is solarpunk, green and beautiful. She has a full comic on light pollution and smog, for pete's sake! And yet she refuses to see the (again, well-documented) issues caused by AI, besides the fact that they're initially trained off of stolen AI (even if they're additionally trained off of her own art willingly - if it was solely trained off of her own art and didn't have any training from unwilling artists at all then the ethics of art usage would be a non-issue and I wouldn't mind it being used as a tool, but alas, the planet begs to differ).
incorporating AI art as a tool to boost your own art is the equivalent of using steroids for bodybuilding 😂,even the controversy issue is similar
I don’t think she is exposed as she has openly talked about using it….
That's just clickbait
She actually talked about this more clearly on her tumblr I'd read her statement there before making your final judgments. She actually doesn't use AI I've only seen her use it in those examples and she uploads her process. She has experimented with lots of things over the years to help her process due to her disability like drawing over her own photography and this was just another thing. Lots of people were hyped about when gen AI was just starting to be a thing. I agree her statements on twitter have been pretty bad and I'm not exactly sure what she was meaning to say in them but she's much clearer in the tumblr post. At the end of the day make your decision for sure, follow your morals.
Thats kinda the sad part. She's not talented. She is however incredibly skilled. To reach her lvl of skill it takes years of hard work and dedication. And now that's she reducing all that time and effort into simple algorithms says thats she's lost the passion that put her on this journey in the first olace and honestly thats more sad than anything.
Man, she's losing her actual physical ability to make art! She has to give up art or use alternatives - which would you expect a passionate artist to do?
@@appended1 she uses 3d models, she should continue that. Don't act like AI is the only solution
i was about to feel real bad about myself until i found out this artist has been posting since i was born, and definitely has been drawing for way way longer than that
idk why i assume every legendary artist i see is like in their early 20s like me
With the “third wing” I feel like that’s the wing of a bird off canvas, confined to the canvas, implying that the other two there are also confined to the canvas, blurring the lines between what is in the world of the painter is and what is in the world of the art.
Should look into Sakimichan too.
Hyung Tae Kim also uses stable diffusion that learns off his own art, and uses it because he's pushing 50+ and can't draw like he used to anymore, let alone be the main artist for his company SHIFTUP. We grow older, we can't do things we used to, our output is slower, I don't blame some artists getting AI to learn off of their work.
sakimichan has already been on the chopping block for years for her racism i don't think many people see her as a positive influence anymore so wouldn't be surprising if shes also unethical.
True. I remember reading her Tumblr years back when someone asked why she doesn't draw PoC, and she instantly flipped out.
At least they were transparent about AI usage at first
Ai is bad, and will always be bad. Like not only does it steal the work of others but also use a significant amount of energy. But at some point I can somewhat understand why she wants to use ai as a tool. I mean look at it, many people use 3d backgrounds for their art to save time. And she could most likely do the same, as long as she doesn't steal it because she did say she is trying to TRAIN ai to her art so she could be able to make artwork similar to her artstyle, she never mentioned she'd flat out steal, I'm pretty sure she knows well that most of the generated images ai pumps out is from real artists.
Also back then ai was still being used as an *experimental* tool. I still remember how fascinated I was of a computer program making artwork out of only prompts, plus the tweets she made are literally 2 years old, I'm sure she as an artist knows WAY better than anyone about how ai can affect artists. The art she made with ai was a part of her experimenting new tools she could take advantage of, especially with her wrist problems. She's mentioned about her wrist problems way before Ai was even a thing, and she's always looked for a new tool which could not only help her save time but also make her be more efficient. Also she only wants to use ai as a tool for her COMICS. She has experimented by making full illustrations with ai but with the messages and tweets it's quite obvious she only wants to use it as a tool for comics, and I'm sure everyone is well aware that comics take a lot of time. And with such a detailed artstyle she has, comics are specially time consuming.
In the end I think it's okay as long as she doesn't misuse it and doesn't let it get to her head. I hope she can still keep her illustrations original. But yeah, Ai is bad but it's only bad if you misuse it.
Trying to justify theft with injury is gross. There are lots of people out there with disabilities and chronic illnesses that create challenges to doing art, but do not claim they're owed the opportunity to steal from others to make up for it. There's a difference between accessibility and thievery, and at the end of the day the reality is that there has to be a certain level to work through challenges and limitations on an emotional level as well, rather than steal or become bitter.
I follow her on Tumblr. Her art is gorgeous. The picture on the right at 1:14 is her Tumblr header. It’s really sad to see that she seems to be Pro-AI art. 😢
Controlnet can absolutely handle it. Make your own checkpoint of your own work, and use segmentation without an input, supply your own work. The end. It’s the closest thing to actual ai art.
There are ethical base models out there now and artists can essentially train their own style LoRA on site. I don't think there's open source software that can run these models yet, so they're probably stuck with on-site generations. I think people would probably complain about the use of Stable Diffusion base models to create a checkpoint because they were originally trained on LAION - despite the fact that essentially if you're only key-wording your own artwork with your own LoRA, you're utilizing the training set's data on "what is a cat? What is green? What do oceans do?" and not the part of the model that was trained to produce specific art styles from art work.
Yuumei in Japanese translates to “famous”, which is really telling for someone to name themselves that.
Despite the constant pseudo intellectualism yuumei spouts, irl she is not bright and could not function without her sycophants. When I was in university there was, no joke, a fanclub that would worship and do everything for her. She didn’t have to lift a finger, they catered to her like a king. When she started vending at cons, she had her people set up and sell for her while she sat there. When she talks about her hand pain it’s not due to hard work, it’s because of her own idiocy. Her fan group would recall wonderful memories of the time she tried cooking and almost burned the house down, this is the type of person we’re dealing with.
Also she has been babied her entire life. She’s constantly pushing that she is an eternal victim. A girl copied the concept of one of her drawings and got her disqualified from a contest. But for yuumei that wasn’t enough, she had to get her fans to dox and harass her too. When she had a disagreement with her partner for the cat headphones, she tried to spin the narrative she was being taken advantage of and tried to rally the internet against her partner, despite the patent and clear ownership clauses being public. And how could we forget how she tried to launch a hate campaign on Ariana Grande and FLCL for the crime of wearing her headphone design, which at this point was sold to and owned by Brookstone. There are many more instances of yuumei’s god complex and it sucks that people like her are given so much grace and power.
She's just someone who literally just posts her art online and has for decades since dA. Grace and power? Dude, she draws and sells her art, lmfao. The hell is wrong with you? You sound jealous and pathetic af, my dude. Might I recommend going outside to toucheth thy grass?
@@HyliaFelllook at you evading all the points! Do you want your sword and shield knight? Will yuumei finally recognize you for all you’ve done for her 😂 what a loyal keyboard warrior you are! One day you’ll truly be rewarded
Note to self, if I ever get famous, don't start a Ariana Grande hate campaign. Her power level is over 9K.
Also don't trust Yuumei for my taxes. She's not actually a brilliant intellectual.
When it comes to appreciating AI-generated art, the tool used to create it is secondary to the quality and impact of the artwork itself. What truly matters is how much you enjoy and connect with the art, not the specific software or algorithm behind it. Whether it's the intricate designs produced by one tool or the vibrant imagery from another, the value lies in the final creation and the emotions it evokes in you. Ultimately, it's your personal response to the art that counts, making the tool a mere means to an end in the creative process.
4:45 OpenAI is NOT open source. Some are but most are not. Even IF they were open source the training data is not.
A lot of image-editing programs have AI generated filters that just pull from their existing filters and combine them for the desired effect. That’s probably the only ethical way for a an artist to use AI. As a primarily traditional artist, these filters help me a lot.
I'm an artist with arthritis and my hands hurt a lot, but I still will not use AI. I would rather power through the hand pain and get my art done than go that rout.
idk her but does this really count as exposed if it’s known she’s been doing so since 2019? still sad to see though
i mean considering i didn't know about it and ive been following them since early DeviantArt years, it was exposing the truth to me. plus it doesn't seem in current posts she even talks about using ai anymore so if shes trying to hide the fact she is or cover her own admittance from 2019 it would in fact be exposing the info to others who don't know or don't keep up with her twitter.
19:48 ignoring the actual serious topic, cat meowing in the background is so cute
I've been keeping up with yuunlmei since i was a kid. They have had wrist pain since i was a teen, so i believe the decision to use ai was based on that. This is understandable to me, as I've seen how much the pain kept them from achieving, but i can't say its not disappointing and heartbreaking. I dont think i can look at their new art in the same way
There are people in the comments saying that AI is just a tool to create. I replayed but ima comment this here to overshadow these silly comments. “No. The brush does not create for you. It is a tool that allows YOU to paint. Ai allows you to claim you made it by doin very little. Just saying this dosnt make it true. Comments like this are giving “this is the only way I think I can make art. I don’t care it steals from artists, cause it dosnt effect me” which is a very uneducated take. If I steal a car, and then the owner says hey, that’s not cool, I cannot turn around and say, this is the only way I have a car, you could just go and get another one. That would be stealing, and wrong. The way AI is now is stealing and wrong. Could it have been created in a way that was not stealing, yeah probably. But unfortunately that’s not how it went, and therefore it is unethical.” Thanks for reading 🫡🥰
"Behold, I painted this! *waves to the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel*"
"...No, Pope Sixtus, *I* painted this, and *YOU* commissioned it."
"Well it was my idea!"
I’m sorry but her hand pain doesn’t mean she gets to profit from the artists that AI generators stole from 🖐️
Being excited over AI in 2022 when it was almost unbelievable and surreal should not be held against anyone. DALL-E, Stable Diffusion, etc. basically didn't exist in 2021 and weren't really widespread and accessible until October 2022.
The issue in the short term will be people who just discovered AI or never thought about it going through the same initial wonder everyone else did years ago, then getting bandwagon hate from everyone who hates AI, not understanding the backlash. Lol
Im actually at this point confused;
People say we should use ai art as a tool but when used as a tool you still get shit on and hurt other artists.
So whats the point of it?
Should we just qvoid it in general?
Like if you use it for reference u you also get shined for it so is there any point of recognising it as a tool?
People always said "use it as a tool not as the endproduct" so it feels like we shouldnt use it at all?
Yes, exactly. You shouldn’t be using generative ai like DALLE or Midjourney at all. They are unethical tools. People who say it’s okay to use as a tool miss the entire point of why they are harmful. The clip studio colorise thing, as far as I’m aware, is fine. Since it’s not trained on stolen work or anything. At least I don’t think so. If it was it would be unethical too.
Yeah, that contradiction comes from denial
They're afraid of feeling undervalued
Which is sad tbh because I see it the opposite way..
Oil painting are much more valued than digital BECAUSE of the extra effort put into them, maybe recognize that anything hand made will skyrocket in value with the spread of AI art?
Just get the facts and look at the situation with a fine calibrated moral compass.
AI isn't a tool, that's what OpenAI and the tech giants want you to think. After all, it would benefit them if artists just shut up and ate from their trough.
There are actually two AI's that you can train with your art, one is MIMIC (it's a japanese AI that you can only do one try and I think you have to pay if you wanna use it more. This one is the first AI that started with all the problem I think. It's also the forst one I heard of) and the other one is Starry AI (which is mostly free). Those are the only ones I know
The funny thing is that yuumeis art is CLEARLY fed into ai… you can see her style in so many of them
"this is not my fight" is such a nauseating thing to hear from someone with so much influence in the art community. it's understandable that she has repetitive strain and that drawing hurts her, but it feels very arrogant to ignore and diminish the damage genAI does to other artist using that as an excuse
Why should she care about other artists just because she's an artist?
Yuumei is famous for being the basically no1 environmental artist out there. Her being on a pro AI stance is just so utterly contradicting to that and one of the main reasons people are so disappointed in her. And then her comment along the lines of "this is not my fight to fight" is honestly ... just sad. Inspiring arts about oppression, freedom, standing up for yourself and your cause - they feel now all sour (to me personally at least). Where are the morals now? Are we throwing the morals out the window as soon as the cause benefits us?
I might sound a bit bitter with that comment, but that is cause I am. I always liked her art.
I know Yuumei struggles with her hand to keep drawing, and as an artist myself I don't want to even imagine how devastating it must be to not being able to create like you are use to before. But turning around and supporting, - almost celebrating- the technology that is actively stealing from other artists and damaging the environment, just so *they* can keep on drawing is just wrong.
And honestly, her silence and avoidance on the direct question "Are you for or against AI?" speaks to me louder than anything else.
Think most of the responses are quite an overreaction. Yuumei doesn't have much to prove to anyone. Anything she generates through AI, she can make herself. Shes specifically using it as a tool, not a crutch.
But i will say, AI has created a new problem, where you can be told "your art looks like it was AI generated" because of stylistic inconsistencies.
I'm suffering from thar kinda accusation because I like contrasted colors and dreamy looks, I rely on negative space a lot too instead of focusing on details, and I see people tracing every imperfection to "call it out as AI art"
They completely forgot how imperfect humans are in the first place.
@@ComplexAce that last part hit...
AI is a threat to every creative industry. AI art, AI music, AI literature... its just sad that we even have to question if something was made by a human these days
It's every industry, more so the white collar jobs. Trades people are spared for now until robot mobility and battery tech gets better. Maybe more artist can do street art of some kind, that's not something A.I can do...for now at least.
It's good that you are starting to question if things on the internet were made by the people who claim to make them.
Here's the thing... she's not wholly wrong, but she misses the big picture. Yes, in theory an AI model trained solely on one person's original artwork isn't theft. But AI as a whole is so riddled with potentials for abuse, and so insanely devastating to working artists, that supporting the technology, and the tech giants profiting off it, is immoral. It's funny she mentions it's "free" several years ago while having absolutely zero foresight. Also, I'm highly skeptical of the integrity of artists who are genuinely excited for this technology as a shortcut to their own workflow. Are you no longer interested in the learning process and the journey? All AI will do is make you more reliant on IT instead of YOUR OWN artistic skills/sensibilities. And over time it will greatly water down, cheapen, and diminish the value, substance and creativity of your work, whether you realize it or not. My advice to people like Yuumei is that it's okay to be fascinated with the tech behind this shiny new thing, but to be keenly aware of its dangers, both existential and personal.
The biggest betrayal….
( I ALSO LIKED THAT ARTIST 😭)
@@Mojaveknight17yeah a tool for theft
@@AuxDroid And will replace your jobs
@@Mojaveknight17no since ai is shit and everyone with a brain hates it
@@Mojaveknight17 Well, not really. You can't download a brush, and tell it do art in the style of "artist X". The AI can. There's a bit of a degree of separation there. 3d also requires you master the 3d program to add backgrounds with 3d. AI art requires no art mastery, only prompts.
@@Mojaveknight17 replace your brain with an ai, at least the machine won't make such stupid comments like you do lol
Wait what? Yuumei? 😮 I have been known her art since 2014-15 for example and always would make great art.
That's so out of character for an artist to do it when they know what AI does
I just want to add, if you’re having wrist pain, it’s worth training yourself to draw with both hands to some extent. Drawing with fingers I’d save as last resort. With a little practice you’ll be surprised how well you can draw with your other hand. Not for linearts maybe at first but for rendering etc
the upload rn is very much appreciated!!! just hurt my foot while dancing and need something to watch while i take a break (i assure you i'll be right back dancing after i finish this video, it was nothing major lol)
wot
@@makolikeamfshark did i say something confusing??
@@化けの花 no im just wondering why this was said lol.
seems a lil...
parasocial.
I'm not talking shit I was just making an observation.
@@化けの花 idk i read really far into shit so who knows.
@@化けの花 also im literally outside looking in so it's really nothing important or bad i'm mainly just being an autist.
..... We are not doing this are we.... She hasn't actively used AI outside the Vance comic strip in awhile. She used her own artwork to test it. She admitted to that. Her main reasoning for wanting to use Ai is to help her with her comic as she has, for years now, suffered medically from pain from drawing due to her past of never taking breaks catching up to her. Is that an excuse? No. But she's also the type to see if AI progresses enough, to have a program made for her, with purely her own artwork as training, to make this happen. Will it happen? Who knows. But people are bringing up the AI comments and usage that happened years ago (Vance comic aside as that was this year) and trying to now be like "ALL HER NEW WORK IS AI!!!!!!!!" when the same shit happened some years ago when she was using 3D to help base out background or perspective easier.
I'm honestly tired of hearing about this one. I'm not for AI, but I understand that in this case, people are looking for a fight that doesn't need to be started. She's never hidden anything, unlike a multitude of people using AI and claiming they never used it, never traced it, etc etc. Yuumei has always been rather transparent when simply /asked/.
Watch the last 30 second of video will explain why everyone is up in arms. She's not giving a straight answer when asked if she still supports genAI. She's answering a question not being asked and avoiding answering clearly. People are trying to piece together her stance.
"Yes or No, do you still plan to use genAi?"
The answer seems to be yes, where many are hoping No 😢
Most artists didn't really understand machine learning until recently. It also wasn't clear before this year that artists would be against AI art, so it's not surprising that Yuumei's stance on AI could have changed. It might have been unethical in similar ways in 2022, but it would be understandable for someone to not realize what they were doing was wrong, since the discussion wasn't really developed. It sounds like they thought at some point, they would be able to make a model trained exclusively on their own work, which would be relatively ethical. We now know this is impossible with current models, but they didn't seem to understand that and there wasn't really anybody explaining that to them. I get that it's hard to believe that they haven't been using AI now, that's fair. But we can't treat their past stance as their current stance when they've said their stance has changed.
It's possible now actually, and widely available
I hate this.
The messages from Yuumei experimenting with AI are from 2022 when we knew much less about everything regarding this topic than we do now. They have chronic and painful health issues that keep them from creating art which is their passion and livelihood, and these models are massively trained on their work because it's so popular. From their perspective, it makes sense they experimented with it back then to see how it could make their art process more convenient and less painful. (From what I know, a lot of artists experimented with it back then in private, but some also in public. There are also a lot of YT videos of artists "stealing back" from AI by redrawing generated images, etc.)
I can't keep watching this (in my opinion biased from the start) video, let alone look at these judgemental comments. You framed this in such an unfavorable way it's disheartening. If Yuumei was still using this actively to this day, profitting off it and ignoring all of the environmental consequences / feigning complete ignorance, I'd understand the outrage, but this? As far as I know from what I saw on social media, that isn't the case, right? Based on that, I see someone who is being purposefully misunderstood by a community that is scared, divided and pushed into anti-AI extremism out of fear of being cancelled. We shouldn't be cancelling each other, but acknowledging each other's situations, learning from and guiding each other toward good decisions, right?
(Btw, I'm not here to argue, just to share a different perspective to inspire thoughts, compassion and respectful exchanges (hence why I ask a lot of more or less rhethorical questions). Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong with any of what I said, I'm here to learn! And just for clarification in case it's of importance, I'm anti unethical generative AI and against the illegal use/reproduction of copyrighted material. Meanwhile, let's not ignore the elephant in the room that this technology is here to stay and jobs in the digital art industry (games, movies, commercial illustration, etc will never be the same, and those of us working in those fields will be forced to work with in-house AI software tomorrow. Are we going to turn on those creatives, too? Everything around creative work and AI is a nightmarish hellscape rn, so maybe please lets not direct unnecessary hate at human beings and hear them out instead...))
Lets be honest, at some point AI art will be more accepted in the future. Yuumei is getting with the times, her hands hurts and she want to produce longer stories. If theres a tool that can help with that vision, go for it.
It steals the work of actual artists since its unable to create its own images without something being fed into it but okay
@@Strawberry_Smoothiez There's already different types of generators out there that can be train on your own individual style, artwork and models she's smart for this and AI is only a tool its not going to replace anyone so all these artists out here can stop fearing for their jobs.
@@TeaTimeTable you literally cannot train an AI yourself to mimic your own style. Thats impossible because it would need thousands of images from one artist to even manage to do that
Dear A.I "artists" you need to accept once you use A.i you are devalued as artist doesn´t matter how many tweaks you do, so if you are willing to use it you need to accept that fact also you need to accept "your" work like A.I generator shouldn´t have full advantage of the copywriting laws, other than that have fun and use the A.I as much as you want, go wild.
Yep! It's either you do, or you don't. All this in-between "it's a tool" stuff detracts from the real issues - it's a red herring. There is no nuance this time, it really is just that black-and-white.
Glad she’s touching on this. AI is gonna put a hurtin’ on creators/editors/artists/et al.
Dude, look at channels, content, voiceovers now. Even commenters. AI and bots.
It’s here, but it’s gonna get worse/better
Perhaps that extra wing was actually meant to be a bird flying behind the other bird, but it is simply reduced to a single shape
Why have people gotten so lazy..
Capitalism plus inflation.
well, traditional artist said the same thing about digital artist when it first became a medium of drawing. they thought it was lazy as there was so many tools and shortcuts. even the selection tool was considered lazy and cheating. i think AI tools can be fine if trained off your on art. and btw im saying ai TOOLS, not just prompting a whole piece. AI tools are already pretty common tbh
What a dumb comment
I don't understand how so many people miss the point that she's developing a physical disability
Developing or having a disability doesn't excuse you from benefiting off mass theft and exploitation. Gen ai is used to take from fellow creators (well anyone in general) , including the disabled. Its still shitty to use gen despite all the net negative it brings.
First ergojosh now yuumei?! Internet artists are falling hard! Sellouts, cowards, scammers in training!
It is impossible to train a generative neural network using only your data. There are literally billions of images needed for training. All “trained” networks in the “style” of artists are forms of either Stable Difusion or some other networks that have been “retrained”. So the base model has been trained on billions of images (LAION contains five billion) and the user simply uploads 100 more of their works to the network, which makes the result a little more similar to theirs and eases the user's conscience.
It's completely possible.
I'm very tempted to tell you how.
But that would be telling.
@@solarydays you are mistaken. The base model is comonly called a "foundation model". A few hundred images is not enough unless you have a foundation model. Several companies have trained foundation models, but many more have used Stable Diffusion as a base.
Now here is the secret: billions of images is overkill. If you want to train your own model from scratch, you'll first need to find some way to obtain a working foundation model.
"Synthetic pretraining": write a script to obtain many views of a handful of
3d models.
Essentially the reason we can't do it with 100 or 200 is the 'random weights initialization'. These should be held aside for a second stage of training: fine-tuning [Lora, anyone?]
You'll also want to limit your domain: ie only landscapes or only portraits.
@@solarydays I'm a college educated artist. I used to work for a major startup in AI art which was recently sold. I program for a living.
I have trained both from scratch and fine tuning.
My philosophy teacher used to say, when we assume it makes an 'ass' out of 'u' and 'me'.
@@solarydays you know something? You really should test your theory about training from scratch with 200 images... It's very simple to test. Just pull up the hugging-face example of training on butterflies via colab. By default it trains on 1000 images. Go ahead and limit the training to 200 images.
Or have you already tested that theory?
@@solarydays so did you test your theory yet?
honestly Yuumei is a great artist with great potential and Im fine with her point. I dont get why people are so against artists who use ai. I get the whole stolen non consentual art stuff and I do art but no one ever mentions anything against ai developping companies. I can assure that most of those people that are against Yuumei have used or experimented with ai generators but are fine with the existence since its advanced technology and makes life easier. There is always immense amounts of hate for artists but people those same people dont have the guts to go out and protest against the companies and developpers/development. Its crazy.
Honestly I dont get why so many people are mad and disappointed at her as their fan when you can clearly do a search and everything is clear and evident. Some "fans" (not implying anyone in specific) just choose to ignore the fact and when the artist is in the center of blame, they finally decide to pull out their findings and blame someone who has been evident about their intentions and future works. You can be mad but forcing them to do something or being disappointed is crazy. Just unfollow, spread some awareness and then move on.
Yall can argue and yeah it is wrong to use ai but she never hid it. People only care about what they want to see and say what they want to hear
13:00 That is not what she said? She supports the new advancements in AI because she wants to use it to train from her OWN art. AI is a tool in this day and age whether you like it or not, and she’s using it as ethically as possible. She’s not stealing other people’s work.
THANK YOU! I was like wait why is this chick twisting the narrative so badly she literally just said she's training it using HER own art to use in her comics like why is that so wrong lol?? I hate how youtubers feel to need to just see a problem where is really shouldn't be none.
all AI base models are trained on scraped works and images. they use enormous amounts of resources, PER IMAGE GENERATION. there IS no ethical way to use these currently.
@@CrazyToddler I know. Chatgpt was also tested off the underpaid labour of the Kenyan workers. But even then, nothing is done about it as everyone uses it. I’m just saying that hammering one artist about that point is meaningless. I said “ethically as she can” because training her own model is the best that can be done so long as AI is still legal.
No ai model comes blank. It’s been given information to learn from before she uses it. How do you know those training models don’t include stolen work?
@@wajmgirlThey don't. They scrape pictures that are captioned and use that data to bind concepts to outputs, exactly how a human looks at a piece of art and figures out how it is composed of several parts. At no point does an AI model actually contain the images used to train it.
There are places to make and upload your own art for custom models, you can also use other artists models with their permission. Personally I genuinely support this as people are making it themselves.
This doesn't make any sense. You can't be exposed when you aren't hiding anything. Being open and honest about a new tech is a bad thing somehow? Literally pointing out possible uses, and being excited for a way to use a new tool for art isn't any reason to hate on them.
Yeah, this video feels wayyy off the mark. But, I guess this is what her audience comes for now.
7:00 I think for the "3rd wing"--if I were to try and explain it and maybe give Yuumei the benefit of the doubt--is supposed to be a bird "off screen", so it's actually two birds in that corner not one with an extra wing. But that's my personal interpretation after looking at it more closely.
Its so sad when this happens, knowing an artist u admire and love their art and notice they use AI or support it makes me sad
When AI first made a booming i just knew they would feed on Yuumei's artworks. She's probably one of the artists out there who uses AI like ergojosh
the stuff she says about how ai is gonna help artists so much comes off so ignorant to me it's pissing me off 😭
Yuumei is always overly ambitious with her art, especialy comics. Each panel was very detail and could stand as an art piece on their own. She's been working on it for years and I get the thought of wanting to create everything or telling the stories with high standart, but she simply couldn't keep up with her own expectation.
I ever read somewhere that Yuumei was learning to draw so hard that her hand is bleeding. That can also contribute to the unhealthy relationship with art, and wanted to do anything to achieve her goals
I’m not really surprised tbh, yuumei’s wrist injury seems to have severely affected her work. The thought of being able to create art just by typing your ideas must be extremely appealing to someone in her situation.
I think you guys are hearing "AI" and not paying attention to what she is actually saying. Which is that she supports AI usage as a tool and would use it *if she could train a model off of only her own art* and that she doesn't because she can't. Originally, she thought she could. Clearly since she is not using AI now she understands that AI images consist of stolen artwork. At least, thats how I interpreted her words. And honestly, I was (and to a degree, am) right there with her. If there was a way to train an AI model ONLY off of my artwork, I would use it to help myself overcome artblock and help me generate ideas in my own style. I don't use AI because I know the models floating around steal art from innocent artists who never consented for their art to be used in that way. But if I could get my hands on a model to train myself, on only my artwork, I would do it.
My only thing about training ai on your own art is the infrastructure was developed through art theft. Even if no other art is referenced other than own, the AI engine was built off stolen work
ai in art can be good if its transformative and quite literally used as a tool.
the generated image is original but made with the style thats stolen from others. so if you keep it and change the style to be your own, then the aspect thats stolen is gone.
i dont think people should be penalized the moment they hear "AI" when it comes to artists, but rather penalize only if theres minimal editing. or god forbid people that dont even do anything and try to claim the generated image is theirs.
i personally use ai for composition but i create the art myself. i cant really imagine things in my head, i dont get mental images. plus when i know what i want and i search for references, its always never what im actually thinking of. so ai generating the pose and composition helps me. whats generated still only fits 60% of what i imagine, but thats completely fine anyway as i ensure my piece strays from the ai reference i use. also i only use it for rough pose and composition, not specifics because ai is bad for that. i use real references for specifics.
but yeah, i do believe ai can be a tool (though i think it should be a paid service and the artists whos work is trained off, should get a cut. however while i agree with this persons sentiment on it being a tool, they didnt really transform what was generated much. at the end of the day, art is about creativity and i didnt really see much there.
this sucks so bad 😭 I’ve been following Yuumei since middle school and love her comics so much. why do talented and successful artists feel the need to do this……
I think they may be exhausted and over worked. They have depended on art for their livelihood for so long it has become not only a way of life, but a PRODUCT, and thus lost the inherent virtuous love of making art.
Because it's a really good and helpful tool
@@DaShikuXI Let me guess, you care about product and not the experience of creating, right? Well it´s a crap product, and you still can´t create jack. Lose - lose situation there.
@@YoshiMario69 AI can be part of the experience of creating.