If you need a high-res SM model I have something I have been cooking up and am looking to publish in the near future. Let me know and I would be glad to send you a preview. Been following your content for a while. I used your "This Is Everything You Need To 3D Print Warhammer Models" as a guide for getting my first resin printer a couple months ago. Thanks for all the content and community you foster.
If the starting STL is lower poly it won't really matter which printer it was printed on, in fact the higher the resolution the more it would prob highlight the lower poly's. If you'd started with a higher quality STL and then did the comparison I feel it would of been a bit more useful. Of course the difficulties of finding a 1 to 1 for a GW model would prob also be more difficult as well. Interesting idea for a video at least. I don't really see the point of the "plan", personally there are so many STL creators out there that showcase how much better 3d prints can be than GW's stuff already. Passing as a GW model is hardly a challenge IMO.
With how much has evolved in the past 2 years in printer and resin technology, let's see how STL's have evolved as well! Strangely the bolter not being hollowed out was a clear giveaway for the games workshop model for me!
for me it was the layer shift on the left legs mid shin, as well as a layer line on right knee pad. Tho the non hollow bolter i though was cause he forgot to drill it NGL lol
Focusing on 2k/4k/8k doesn't really mean much. It's more about x/y resolution. An 4k printer with a 5 inch buildplate will produce the same detail as an 8k with a 10 inch buildplate. With that said IMO anything with an xy resolution of 30ish microns or less will replicate models indistinguishable from GW save any layer lines/ file differences. I had a phrozen sonic mini 8k sitting in the box for a year because the mini 4k that I was using was that good. The place where high resolution printers shine their ability to retain all the detail while still cranking up the anti-aliasing for smooth high detail prints.
It's not only the XY resolution, it's a matter of the designer himself, I'm a 3D designer and I can assure you I can get the same details for my 48-micron printer "Mono X2" just as high as Sonic Phrozen mini which is 22 microns by focusing on 2 things 1- adjusting the details itself inside the software I'm using which is Zbrush , so If I want to have the same quality for the highest resolution printer on a 2K printer I can increase the details by 200% beyond the average and VOALA! an old Mono X is as crisp as the M7 Pro ! 2- Designers whether they design figures or minis tend to decrease the number of polygons before they send the model to the slicer so it can handle it pretty well but it costs a HUGE decrease in the details sometimes So if you can design your own stuff, a 50-micron printer is the best choice and Cheapest so you can buy a fleet of them "which I'm doing" because the human eye barely can see 150-micron with the naked eye, so imagine trying to catch 50 microns!
With both the Leviathan and 10th Ed. Ultimate Starter being $250+, and individual characters going for $50 - $100 each, GW is pushing people to 3D printers. For the price of the two sets I mentioned, you can get a 12K printer. It is outrageous what they are charging for plastic and At the detail these are at now, I see more and more people moving to resin printing. And with other games openly sharing their STLs or making them available for a fee, it is just enhancing the reasons to print your own models.
I've mentioned in the past, you are one of the main reasons I started including 3d printing into my collections. Cheap, easy to commission models, and fun when it comes to customizations. Please don't poke the bear that is GW, you might be a smaller channel, but your content is great and I'd hate to see them wreck your shit simply cause you pissed them off. Lets be real they are petty af. Love your vids Sam!
"Lets be real they are petty af." Exactly. Look at how they went after Gamza once he started doing those price comparison videos where he was showing just how much cheaper 3D printed models are compared to buying from GW.
I'm really hoping that the Amazon 40k 'universe' takes off, GW makes a tremendous amount of money, and they just license it like Pathfinder, where fans can make their own stuff. The amount of money they are making with the IP and other media must absolutely dwarf profits they are making with minis, and that gap is only going to get wider.
Certain slicing programs have anti-aliasing settings that can reduce the “grow lines” and edge fractals on those lines. It’s worth experimenting to get right, because if you can dial it in, it produces nearly flawless prints that don’t look printed at all
For these small details Sam do you use antialiasing moddifier? With my Elegoo Saturn 2 8K this option gives me smooth models. Also you can "smooth" the low poly areas with ZBRush
I don't think you should continue with your secret plan it doesn't accomplish much, 3D artist is pushing the SM template father than the GW has in the past few years, I even seen Crab Marines. A better test is to find a busy Park/Street and ask people what models are better and why. Then tell them the price. People Drop Jaws its funny to see the avg person trip balls over the price of a plastic model lol
So the problem with the polys has to do with the STL and not the printer. you'd need to take it into a modelling software like maya or blender and increase the polycount to smooth it out.
@@terugue Not really. Anti-aliasing is to reduce the "sampling error" caused by the finite detail density capability (in this case the resolution along the X-Y plane) of the LCD screen by some sort of "over sampling" (by varying intensity or exposure time on concerned areas). But it won't help on the problem of low polycount as it is a problem of the model and not the method of its reproduction. On the other hand image blur would indiscriminately wash away the sharp edges somewhat covering up the low poly nature of the model.
@@peterkiss1204 Most of us dump Image Blur into AA as it's a suboption within the AA menu in Chitu, that's not able to be enabled unless you tick the AA box.
6:02 unfortunately due to the low poly density on the 3d model´s backpack domes one can easily tell that the left and the right model are 3d printed. You can see the problem here at 0:54 Other than that it is rather hard to tell and thus it is awesome to see how far 3d printing has come already :D
While modeling from scratch in Blender is a bit daunting, you can import the low poly model you have and try an operation called "Sub-divide faces". As long as the stl is a manifold (no holes and only one face) that should work a treat to make all those poly faces disappear.
this will harm sharp edges, so you should manually mark sharp edges as seams first, then subdivide with a reduced weight for the seems. This will keep the seams sharp and smooth the rest
@@Adlore Hey, thanks for the good info! I'm still very much an amateur at Blender. I guess this would explain why some of the models I've tried this on look like crap...lol. I will definately try that out the next time I need to smooth some low poly models.
Thank you so much, I'm buying a printer after my big exams, and may have made a document which contains stl's for 4 armies, and pieces to bulk out kits planned for the future, thank you for being so inspirational.
Just wanna say sam your content quality has taken a quantum leap forward in the short time you've been making content. Really great job man keep it up.
The 4k and 8k models still had support marks, and had aliasing on the legs and collars that give them away as 3D printed models at any resolution. If you're not going to clean those up, then trying to get one of your models displayed in an official GW store's window is stabbing the management at that store right in the back.
Are you using the Cones of Calibration to make sure your exposure settings are right? It's the exposure calibration that doesn't rely on human perception, it has a pass-fail design, and I think you may want to use it to get your exposures correct.
One of my biggest issues with the 3D prints has been finding STLs that actually look close enough to be proxies for space marines while not having low quality textures. Rounded surfaces are a problem on a lot of the models I've printed. Blocky elbows and shoulders feel bad.
Personal opinion of course. Whilst I don't mind the odd upgrade/weapon/etc 3D printed, when it comes to an entire model, I am yet to see one that is not immediately identifiable that it's been 3D printed. Even the tiniest layer size is still detectable unless you spend a good amount of time sanding and cleaning to smooth it all out. 3D v Injection is like digital v analogue, digital is cheap and fast, but limited. Analogue is a little esoteric but the quality is hard to match due to it being far less constrained. I didn't even need to look at the barrel without a hole to tell which was which, it is still glaringly obvious (8k doesn't even look much better from here which is saying something, it is definitely NOT twice as good). This is specific to this particular vid for the most part, but in the general scheme of things, I think too many ppl just use crappy files and call it a day unfortunately. That aside, you may want to retest with the highest quality stl you can get, as digital stuff doesn't scale well with quality. You have to HAVE quality to GET quality. I'd happily re-eval.
you dont see any layers in resin prints. at least, i have not even seen a single layer line since i use my printers. fdm printers do have lines and you have to clean them up.
@@deformiertergolfball4847 I watched the video buddy, I can see the lines (even on the Tyranid he printed). Though I did state he should try again with a better quality STL. Pity you can't post pics, I'd like to see some of yours for comparison :D
@@ssd2579 id honestly like to see the lines, i have to be braindamaged then. i mean i know mold lines from gw models but if its decent i do not see any difference on the gaming table. maybe my eye just does not witness such details idk
@@deformiertergolfball4847 You're not technically wrong, most eyes see things a little different, whether its colour/focal point/etc. My eyes only work up close cause I'm short-sighted lol. Tbh though, having done extensive 3D CAD does kinda mean I know exactly what to look for for the most part and straight away I spot the striations on the backpacks and greaves as well as poly on parts like the elbows.
@@battlebrothersam The Mars 2 is already 100$ don't know if they can get any cheaper . Tbh with the printer prices so cheap already I cant understand people who still spend like 500-700$ on a 2k point army
I think it's time to update this video. I have a 3dprinter that prints 18um pixel size with 20um layer height. I see absolutely no lines after priming my models and I usually have eagle eyes when it comes to layer lines.
just printing the bodies would be enough: in gw boxes there are many heads, weapon that are not used.if you print the body you can easily attach those spare bits. at that point the difference is almost impossible to tell
i’ve been 3d printing for over 10 years and even at 8k you know exactly where to look. But it’s practically invisible to the naked eye. Also the paint used makes the printing lines more obvious. For example the dark wash on the marines biceps were one giveaway.
Sam, I hope you know this but, just in case, and for your audience, resolution is only half the picture. Its about how many pixels the screen fits into a given area, also called the XY Accuracy. A 6" 2k screen has as many pixels per sq cm as a 4k 10" screen, so they produce the same results. The original Mars (2k) and the original Saturn (4k) have basically the same XY accuracy. If you're comparing two printers with the same build volume the one with higher resolution is better but if the screen is bigger you have to think about more than just resolution. This is why the best printer currently available is the Phrozen sonic mini 8k at 22 micron xy accuracy (compared to something like the Saturn 2's 28 micron or the original Saturn or Mars's 50 Micron) though it is be about to be eclipsed by the Saturn 3 or Anycubic M5s at about 19 micron both of which have Saturn like screen sizes, but 12k screens.
depend on what you want to play. if you want to play wine and or really onramented armys a smaller printer with better resolution is the choice, for a horde or tank army a bigger printer , to put yout more models at the same time makes more sense. i print scince the "Astartes" incident and use a Elagoo Saturn, wich is totally fine to use if you want to print truescale marines. for finer miniature this is sometimes a littlebit tricky but i wouldnt want to miss the ability to print a tank the size of a macharius in 3 prints so about one to two days. best is to inform yourself about the printer. and the comparison. imo a 8k printer is for starters way overkill atleast if you dont want to print high detailed busts.
I can tell you from personal experience, 3d printing is better. I will still buy a GW kit every now and then. When it comes to making armies though, 3d printing is definitely the way to go. It’s cheaper in the long run, and you will have better models.
I saw some info saying that 8k printers create fillets in corners unless you use a more opaque resin due to finer layers and light bleed. This is probably what is strengthening your supports. Go with a darker resin to fix it. You will have to cure for longer though. I can see the polygonization easily. I also see striations (layer steps) quite conspicuously on the thigh, edge of the gorget and elsewhere. There's also a layer shift line on the shin of one leg, on both printed models. I hope you get a finer detail mesh model and attempt to place it in the store. You might have to go with a finer layer height if that's possible (it will make the support fillets worse so you will need darker resin).
I guessed all three correct the give away on the 4k is the right (from the marines perspective) grieve there appears to be a layer shift and on the 8k model the layer shift is on the left grieve. It was difficult to find it even with the model in full sized for the HD screen. I'd imagine that layer shift would be hard to see before painting so it might be difficult to hide unless it was fixed then repainted.
I was able to spot the true GW Marine But was working as a professional 3D Printer and I think over 90% of people arent able to spot the little seams that the layers create. Maybe go over them with a file? 6:03 Look at the left marines collar and the right marines lower left leg youll be able to see them
Lots of high quality space marine backpack stls out there, you can definitely print models to the same quality as HIPS casting. I could tell as you were painting which one was GW though because it had a mold line.
The difference between the models is huge! And it's easy to see. Models made on a 3d printer have uneven surfaces, incorrect proportions of some parts, such as an eye on a helmet. The model from Games Workshop is smooth and pleasing to the eye.
Aye, the Games Workshop marine clearly stuck out, the quality is miles ahead. People wonder why they have high prices but you pay for that premium quality
I think the printing quality is pretty much there these days. I think 0.05mm is too large of a layer height as the lines are really clear. But with a lower layer height the print quality is great.The sculpt for the primaris marines is just awful, the trick with mislabeling them did not work at all. It's not so much a problem with the polygons, the sculpt is just so deeply. Especially the head. I'd love to see you review some more modern sculpts. I see this model printed all over the place, they're really easy to spot becasue imo it looks so so much worse than the gw one. It really puts me off printing knowing that this is the level of 3d model sculpt quality. .
For normal infantry or tanks I use 0.05 but for characters I do 0.03 or 0.02 (for a primarch). Layer lines aren't as noticeable on the table so 0.05 for 90% of people is fine. But yes, for display minis you want to go for something closer to 0.03 with AA on a printer with sub 30 um pixels. 100% agree with you on the sculpts though. I'm going through my 1tb of files to determine which files are too low poly.
@@antongunther3977 geeze resin is insane resolution compared to FDM(or FFF as some prefer to call it), here I am happy when I set my Prusa MK3+ to .15.
poly can be reduced with Blur/Anti-aliasing without loosing detail but its a delicate balancing act to say the least. But, finding better STL files is a much easier solution if available.
Hi so I am new at the 3-D modeling printing and I was wondering which model you recommend if it’s a resin one or the other one and all of that? It’s for fun 40k, d&d, aliens but we do want amazing quality and that it will last of for a while
what stood out for me was the details being slightly different to others the GW model Backpack sits lower and has a wider scoop on the head compared to the rest
You can tell the difference in the rounded parts for sure, this is only because the camera is so close you pick it up, in real life is so tiny that you wouldn't notice it.
I'm teaching myself Blender so I can print myself a 100% custom WAAAGH! Orks as a concept are hilarious, but the GW-minnies are often lacking in their design. Sculpting orks in perticular really aint that chalenging. I've been at it a week, and I feel confident that I'll have my first boyz ready for printing before the end of Orktober. I'm thinking Blood Axes
It would be fun to see what someone could do with a "8k" model on a 8k printer... But i wonder if the stepping on round surfaces still would need to be taken care of.
@@battlebrothersam that's what got me subbed. What's crazy was before you released that video that very day I was thinking I wonder what cool files are out there for Fulgrim and then UA-cam read my mind and suggested your video.
Thanks for this video and tips I was able to print out a batch of these guys. I dont mind buying them but I want to master my painting skills on resin prints to golden demon level before dropping the cash on the real figures so they have paint job I can be proud to display.
Did you use anti-aliasing when you printed the 4K and 8K models? The polies are visible on things like the round bits of the backpacks, and I'm wondering if AA would reduce their obviousness.
Using anycubic mono 4k for my primaris-sized chaos space marines, i scaled, mixed and kitbashed a lot of stuff... Never had such problem. Too bad im quite an amateur at painting. Anyway, i always use antialias on, and never had an problem with the "geometry" of the files, even on my old 2k models i had such thing. You should probably pray with more fervor to the machine spirit.
While GW pricing is high, that shouldn't justify stealing. But as pretty much anyone my age, I definetely downloaded many a video game/mp3/movie when I was young and couldn't afford much. I just wonder if it becomes too widespread it will impact the hobby. We are at the end of the day dependant on GW to design and release new models and rulesets.
@@caragas9331 Any number of things make absurd amounts of profit, and I'm pretty sure you're not stealing from your local supermarket and apple store? And when you want a new car, do you go out and steal a ferrari?
Can I suggest a easier and cleaner post print process: make sure you have all your protective stuff on. have a sealable lid container filled with 91-99 iso. Once the print plate has dripped the excess back into the vat, take the plate with print on it and dip the entire thing in the alcohol and swirl it around for a bit. Now that almost all the resin is gone, scrape the print from the plate. Once its off the plate, you can wipe the plate clean with the alcohol still on the plate..put it back on the printer. Then place all the prints (with supports still on) into a ultrasonic bath filled with more alcohol (clean ..it will stay clean for a while since you are prewashing with the first container). Run it for a minute or two. Once they come out of the ulrasonic bath, you can use some compressed air or a fan to completely evaporate the alcohol. Now place the entire print with supports and all into your curing station for 2-4 minutes. now that they are cured the supports will easily snap off and almost all of the prints can be cleaned by hand with no tools necessary. You will have flawless prints using this method..very few if any marks from supports and no shiny or white spots from uncured resin
could tell the difference in the close up with close inspection. however for sure irl i dont think 8k will look any different unless u dont clean it up well enough (u can stil see the print lines in the 4k and 8k)
The entire 2K, 4K, 8K is completely misleading, because it doesn't tell you what the actual detail level the printer is able to get out. A small scale 4K can have higher detail levels than a large scale 8K. The spec that matters is the XY Resolution. Phrozen Sonic Mini 4K has a XY res of 35μm, whereas the Phrozen Sonic Mega 8K has a XY res of 43 µm. So if printing miniatures, you can get finer details with the Mini 4K than the Mega 8K. It's all about getting the right size for what you want to print, and just pay attention to the XY resolution, that's what matters.
Not at .02mm layer hight it won't, he's not using a high quality model so you are actually looking at voxel lines, layer lines are invisible on a well supported models.
2k, 4k, and 8k is sorta enigmatic... your actual detail level is going to be a combination of the resolution and screen size I think. What are the different micron sizes?
I remember a while ago I watched a review of a 8k printer and the reviewer was setting it up against a 4k printer and determined 8k lost because the 4k prints were better. What he didn't realize was the 8k printer had a huge print bed and the 4k printer bed was a lot smaller. Printers need to be advertised by pixel density not by resolution. A 4k printer less than half the size of a 8k printer is going to be higher quality because of pixel density.
Are you using an 8K resin? If so, the toughness is simple. 4K resins have a slightly lower tensile strength than 8k resins, really just due to the formula. In most cases Standard 2k resins will have the lowest tensile strength. This will make the supports tougher, harder to pull off, and leave more damage. I love the compare and show, this is a great example of how printing has come full circle, and where as we were told that printers would never match the quality of injection molds a few years back, etc. like traditional models are made, or even resin molds and the like. Personally I feel the 4k and 8k are so close in quality either one is a little better looking than the GW version. Short of those polys, there is a blender trick you can use to smooth them out, but it does require some blender knowledge and a a bit of patience. Nice vids, btw. Got my sub.
Yes, Try to get a new 8K model into the store front but take a model and try to paint some resin over the layer lines in the area where they are visible befor putting them in the curer to remove them. @AlphaPhonix did it with a filament model and it works surprisingly well.
I genuinly thought the GW model was 3D printed purely because of the knees. Well done bro I'm looking forward to upgrading from my mars2 pro when I finish my FIFO rotation
I would really like to see this same experiment with a higher quality STL and also printing with various resins, is 8k resin worth it? Does normal resin in an 8k printer compare to GW?
0:59 those supports are way too big 0.18mm is fine. jetpack style between GW and Prints is a dead give away. Also looks like arms are vastly different.
Are you using anti aliasing? That can help a bit with the polygons as it smooths things out a bit. It can be a pain to get your settings adjusted for it, but it can be worth it on printers with smaller pixel sizes.
Nice. Yeah like you said, the tell on them is the packs and shins. 4k and 8k are using a model with low polys on the pack, so you can see the edges on the spheres where it should be perfectly round. Also the 8k has a small layer artifact on it's right shin. The GW's tell is on the left shin. You can see some injection mold bubble flaws in the plastic there. Always an issue with how GW does their plastic. But with a good model, 4k and 8k produce much better results IMO
A lot of slicers can slice from things like, 3mf, where the artifacts from circles and spheres are a non issue and it'd come down to the resolution of the screen. If you can, avoid slicing from an STL at all. I kinda stumbled in here from FDM land, but those tessellation artifacts are strictly due to the STL.
I had a friend that's hugely into 40K and told me to just buy the stuff and that 3D printing was bad quality. I ignored his advice and bought an Saturn 2 8K. He almost immediately has since changed his tune and I've printed off a few large figures for him saving him close to 1K, plus the models are better too.
If you want to support the channel further please pledge to my patreon.
www.patreon.com/battlebrothersam
Check how anti aliasing affects support strength, I’ve very much noticed the same thing
If you need a high-res SM model I have something I have been cooking up and am looking to publish in the near future. Let me know and I would be glad to send you a preview.
Been following your content for a while. I used your "This Is Everything You Need To 3D Print Warhammer Models" as a guide for getting my first resin printer a couple months ago. Thanks for all the content and community you foster.
Won’t they be able to tell from the weight?
I wish I had those stl files 😢
why not... 2k vs 4k vs 8k vs.... *40K* 3D printed Space Marine
If you know Space Marines, you instantly know which head is the real deal.
Eye,forehead area is straight giveaway. GW model looks so much more good in that regard
im new to it and i can already see it in the brow
I’m not very familiar with Space Marines, and I could still tell right away. Printed ones often have visible layer lines in many spots.
If the starting STL is lower poly it won't really matter which printer it was printed on, in fact the higher the resolution the more it would prob highlight the lower poly's. If you'd started with a higher quality STL and then did the comparison I feel it would of been a bit more useful. Of course the difficulties of finding a 1 to 1 for a GW model would prob also be more difficult as well. Interesting idea for a video at least.
I don't really see the point of the "plan", personally there are so many STL creators out there that showcase how much better 3d prints can be than GW's stuff already. Passing as a GW model is hardly a challenge IMO.
Yeah , he should have selected a high-quality STL in first place and then do the whole 2k , 4k thing imo
With how much has evolved in the past 2 years in printer and resin technology, let's see how STL's have evolved as well! Strangely the bolter not being hollowed out was a clear giveaway for the games workshop model for me!
for me it was the layer shift on the left legs mid shin, as well as a layer line on right knee pad. Tho the non hollow bolter i though was cause he forgot to drill it NGL lol
For me it was the design of the helmet, GWs is just alot better sculpted.
Not the massive blocky lines on the round surface of the powerpack?
@@SiggyCloud haha no XD didnt even look there
You can still hollow it
I think it would be best to just do the priming and compare to make the differences more clear. Painting tends to hide these things.
Or highlight depending on the techniques used, like dry brushing. Agreed on the priming only
It's because he doesn't know how to thin his paints, they all look the same with the chunky ass paint.
Focusing on 2k/4k/8k doesn't really mean much. It's more about x/y resolution. An 4k printer with a 5 inch buildplate will produce the same detail as an 8k with a 10 inch buildplate.
With that said IMO anything with an xy resolution of 30ish microns or less will replicate models indistinguishable from GW save any layer lines/ file differences.
I had a phrozen sonic mini 8k sitting in the box for a year because the mini 4k that I was using was that good.
The place where high resolution printers shine their ability to retain all the detail while still cranking up the anti-aliasing for smooth high detail prints.
This comment should be higher.
It's not only the XY resolution, it's a matter of the designer himself, I'm a 3D designer and I can assure you I can get the same details for my 48-micron printer "Mono X2" just as high as Sonic Phrozen mini which is 22 microns by focusing on 2 things
1- adjusting the details itself inside the software I'm using which is Zbrush , so If I want to have the same quality for the highest resolution printer on a 2K printer I can increase the details by 200% beyond the average and VOALA! an old Mono X is as crisp as the M7 Pro !
2- Designers whether they design figures or minis tend to decrease the number of polygons before they send the model to the slicer so it can handle it pretty well but it costs a HUGE decrease in the details sometimes
So if you can design your own stuff, a 50-micron printer is the best choice and Cheapest so you can buy a fleet of them "which I'm doing" because the human eye barely can see 150-micron with the naked eye, so imagine trying to catch 50 microns!
With both the Leviathan and 10th Ed. Ultimate Starter being $250+, and individual characters going for $50 - $100 each, GW is pushing people to 3D printers. For the price of the two sets I mentioned, you can get a 12K printer. It is outrageous what they are charging for plastic and At the detail these are at now, I see more and more people moving to resin printing. And with other games openly sharing their STLs or making them available for a fee, it is just enhancing the reasons to print your own models.
I've mentioned in the past, you are one of the main reasons I started including 3d printing into my collections. Cheap, easy to commission models, and fun when it comes to customizations. Please don't poke the bear that is GW, you might be a smaller channel, but your content is great and I'd hate to see them wreck your shit simply cause you pissed them off. Lets be real they are petty af. Love your vids Sam!
"Lets be real they are petty af."
Exactly. Look at how they went after Gamza once he started doing those price comparison videos where he was showing just how much cheaper 3D printed models are compared to buying from GW.
I'm really hoping that the Amazon 40k 'universe' takes off, GW makes a tremendous amount of money, and they just license it like Pathfinder, where fans can make their own stuff. The amount of money they are making with the IP and other media must absolutely dwarf profits they are making with minis, and that gap is only going to get wider.
Certain slicing programs have anti-aliasing settings that can reduce the “grow lines” and edge fractals on those lines.
It’s worth experimenting to get right, because if you can dial it in, it produces nearly flawless prints that don’t look printed at all
For these small details Sam do you use antialiasing moddifier? With my Elegoo Saturn 2 8K this option gives me smooth models. Also you can "smooth" the low poly areas with ZBRush
You know what I don't think I do!!! I should try that first but thanks I didn't know about zbrush!
the bravest man on youtube right here. He gets those emails from GW and sends them straight to spam, god bless you
I don't think you should continue with your secret plan it doesn't accomplish much, 3D artist is pushing the SM template father than the GW has in the past few years, I even seen Crab Marines. A better test is to find a busy Park/Street and ask people what models are better and why. Then tell them the price. People Drop Jaws its funny to see the avg person trip balls over the price of a plastic model lol
I'd be interested to see if you used Anti-Aliasing on the 4K and 8K printers if it would fix the polygons on the backpacks.
So the problem with the polys has to do with the STL and not the printer. you'd need to take it into a modelling software like maya or blender and increase the polycount to smooth it out.
@@preddes6522 your slicer has an anti-aliasing feature to alleviate poor polycount
@@terugue This. Anti aliasing was introduced to help blend out layer shifts, and if he's using an 8k printer then it should have zero layer lines.
@@terugue Not really. Anti-aliasing is to reduce the "sampling error" caused by the finite detail density capability (in this case the resolution along the X-Y plane) of the LCD screen by some sort of "over sampling" (by varying intensity or exposure time on concerned areas). But it won't help on the problem of low polycount as it is a problem of the model and not the method of its reproduction.
On the other hand image blur would indiscriminately wash away the sharp edges somewhat covering up the low poly nature of the model.
@@peterkiss1204 Most of us dump Image Blur into AA as it's a suboption within the AA menu in Chitu, that's not able to be enabled unless you tick the AA box.
It's going to get to the point where GW will have to lower prices because people will start making their own models.
6:02 unfortunately due to the low poly density on the 3d model´s backpack domes one can easily tell that the left and the right model are 3d printed. You can see the problem here at 0:54
Other than that it is rather hard to tell and thus it is awesome to see how far 3d printing has come already :D
pretty much an easy giveaway.
Gotta remember "A good paintjob adds detail to a bad mini, But a bad paintjob can forever ruin a great mini"
While modeling from scratch in Blender is a bit daunting, you can import the low poly model you have and try an operation called "Sub-divide faces". As long as the stl is a manifold (no holes and only one face) that should work a treat to make all those poly faces disappear.
this will harm sharp edges, so you should manually mark sharp edges as seams first, then subdivide with a reduced weight for the seems. This will keep the seams sharp and smooth the rest
@@Adlore Hey, thanks for the good info! I'm still very much an amateur at Blender. I guess this would explain why some of the models I've tried this on look like crap...lol. I will definately try that out the next time I need to smooth some low poly models.
Thank you so much, I'm buying a printer after my big exams, and may have made a document which contains stl's for 4 armies, and pieces to bulk out kits planned for the future, thank you for being so inspirational.
Thanks brother!
Just wanna say sam your content quality has taken a quantum leap forward in the short time you've been making content. Really great job man keep it up.
Thanks brother!
The 4k and 8k models still had support marks, and had aliasing on the legs and collars that give them away as 3D printed models at any resolution. If you're not going to clean those up, then trying to get one of your models displayed in an official GW store's window is stabbing the management at that store right in the back.
Are you using the Cones of Calibration to make sure your exposure settings are right?
It's the exposure calibration that doesn't rely on human perception, it has a pass-fail design, and I think you may want to use it to get your exposures correct.
One of my biggest issues with the 3D prints has been finding STLs that actually look close enough to be proxies for space marines while not having low quality textures. Rounded surfaces are a problem on a lot of the models I've printed. Blocky elbows and shoulders feel bad.
In addition to using/not using hot water, your 8k is probably slightly overXP meaning your supports are stronger on it 👍
Personal opinion of course. Whilst I don't mind the odd upgrade/weapon/etc 3D printed, when it comes to an entire model, I am yet to see one that is not immediately identifiable that it's been 3D printed. Even the tiniest layer size is still detectable unless you spend a good amount of time sanding and cleaning to smooth it all out. 3D v Injection is like digital v analogue, digital is cheap and fast, but limited. Analogue is a little esoteric but the quality is hard to match due to it being far less constrained. I didn't even need to look at the barrel without a hole to tell which was which, it is still glaringly obvious (8k doesn't even look much better from here which is saying something, it is definitely NOT twice as good). This is specific to this particular vid for the most part, but in the general scheme of things, I think too many ppl just use crappy files and call it a day unfortunately.
That aside, you may want to retest with the highest quality stl you can get, as digital stuff doesn't scale well with quality. You have to HAVE quality to GET quality. I'd happily re-eval.
you dont see any layers in resin prints. at least, i have not even seen a single layer line since i use my printers.
fdm printers do have lines and you have to clean them up.
@@deformiertergolfball4847 I watched the video buddy, I can see the lines (even on the Tyranid he printed). Though I did state he should try again with a better quality STL. Pity you can't post pics, I'd like to see some of yours for comparison :D
@@ssd2579 id honestly like to see the lines, i have to be braindamaged then.
i mean i know mold lines from gw models but if its decent i do not see any difference on the gaming table.
maybe my eye just does not witness such details idk
@@deformiertergolfball4847 You're not technically wrong, most eyes see things a little different, whether its colour/focal point/etc. My eyes only work up close cause I'm short-sighted lol. Tbh though, having done extensive 3D CAD does kinda mean I know exactly what to look for for the most part and straight away I spot the striations on the backpacks and greaves as well as poly on parts like the elbows.
I'm doing it in 2k, because I still haven't had the money to buy a 4k one, it's been working very well
2k is great and it's getting cheaper every year
@@battlebrothersam The Mars 2 is already 100$ don't know if they can get any cheaper . Tbh with the printer prices so cheap already I cant understand people who still spend like 500-700$ on a 2k point army
Does First Born Stl files exist that are the same size as GW's Primaris marines?
Even if they don't you can scale up quite easily
This is probably the only video I can think of that I honestly wish was also filmed in 4k.
I'm not sure what it says about me... but... I really want to know where you got that roll out rubber tray at 1:06 from!
I think it's time to update this video. I have a 3dprinter that prints 18um pixel size with 20um layer height. I see absolutely no lines after priming my models and I usually have eagle eyes when it comes to layer lines.
From N.I.? - greetings from one Norn Irn guy to another!! Always enjoyable - keep going!
just printing the bodies would be enough: in gw boxes there are many heads, weapon that are not used.if you print the body you can easily attach those spare bits. at that point the difference is almost impossible to tell
That is fact. I have a huge pile of heads and weapons
i’ve been 3d printing for over 10 years and even at 8k you know exactly where to look. But it’s practically invisible to the naked eye. Also the paint used makes the printing lines more obvious. For example the dark wash on the marines biceps were one giveaway.
Sam, I hope you know this but, just in case, and for your audience, resolution is only half the picture. Its about how many pixels the screen fits into a given area, also called the XY Accuracy. A 6" 2k screen has as many pixels per sq cm as a 4k 10" screen, so they produce the same results. The original Mars (2k) and the original Saturn (4k) have basically the same XY accuracy. If you're comparing two printers with the same build volume the one with higher resolution is better but if the screen is bigger you have to think about more than just resolution.
This is why the best printer currently available is the Phrozen sonic mini 8k at 22 micron xy accuracy (compared to something like the Saturn 2's 28 micron or the original Saturn or Mars's 50 Micron) though it is be about to be eclipsed by the Saturn 3 or Anycubic M5s at about 19 micron both of which have Saturn like screen sizes, but 12k screens.
So my bud and I wanna get into 40k and he has a printer where do you get files
Cults 3d, Thingiverse or Yeggi.
hello brothers, I want to get a 3d printer but i dont know wich one to pick ¿do you have any recomentations?
depend on what you want to play. if you want to play wine and or really onramented armys a smaller printer with better resolution is the choice, for a horde or tank army a bigger printer , to put yout more models at the same time makes more sense. i print scince the "Astartes" incident and use a Elagoo Saturn, wich is totally fine to use if you want to print truescale marines. for finer miniature this is sometimes a littlebit tricky but i wouldnt want to miss the ability to print a tank the size of a macharius in 3 prints so about one to two days. best is to inform yourself about the printer. and the comparison. imo a 8k printer is for starters way overkill atleast if you dont want to print high detailed busts.
I would say any saturn sized printer if it suits your budget
@@RestlessSoul45 have you heard of the creality halot one? do you know if its a good printer? cause thats the only 3d printer I can find where i live
I can tell you from personal experience, 3d printing is better. I will still buy a GW kit every now and then. When it comes to making armies though, 3d printing is definitely the way to go. It’s cheaper in the long run, and you will have better models.
The Emperor of Games Workshop is tracking your position !
to be fair, when you took the side by side comparison shots, the GW model is blurred. like 6:04 example
Another Amazing video Brother
Thanks brother!
I saw some info saying that 8k printers create fillets in corners unless you use a more opaque resin due to finer layers and light bleed. This is probably what is strengthening your supports. Go with a darker resin to fix it. You will have to cure for longer though.
I can see the polygonization easily. I also see striations (layer steps) quite conspicuously on the thigh, edge of the gorget and elsewhere. There's also a layer shift line on the shin of one leg, on both printed models.
I hope you get a finer detail mesh model and attempt to place it in the store. You might have to go with a finer layer height if that's possible (it will make the support fillets worse so you will need darker resin).
I guessed all three correct the give away on the 4k is the right (from the marines perspective) grieve there appears to be a layer shift and on the 8k model the layer shift is on the left grieve. It was difficult to find it even with the model in full sized for the HD screen. I'd imagine that layer shift would be hard to see before painting so it might be difficult to hide unless it was fixed then repainted.
I was able to spot the true GW Marine
But was working as a professional 3D Printer and I think over 90% of people arent able to spot the little seams that the layers create. Maybe go over them with a file?
6:03 Look at the left marines collar and the right marines lower left leg youll be able to see them
this is like comparing Hd, 4k and 8k TVs using Hd content.
Lots of high quality space marine backpack stls out there, you can definitely print models to the same quality as HIPS casting. I could tell as you were painting which one was GW though because it had a mold line.
The difference between the models is huge! And it's easy to see. Models made on a 3d printer have uneven surfaces, incorrect proportions of some parts, such as an eye on a helmet. The model from Games Workshop is smooth and pleasing to the eye.
Aye, the Games Workshop marine clearly stuck out, the quality is miles ahead. People wonder why they have high prices but you pay for that premium quality
🤡
What are some things to look out for if I want to print Mechanicus?
I think the printing quality is pretty much there these days. I think 0.05mm is too large of a layer height as the lines are really clear. But with a lower layer height the print quality is great.The sculpt for the primaris marines is just awful, the trick with mislabeling them did not work at all. It's not so much a problem with the polygons, the sculpt is just so deeply. Especially the head. I'd love to see you review some more modern sculpts. I see this model printed all over the place, they're really easy to spot becasue imo it looks so so much worse than the gw one. It really puts me off printing knowing that this is the level of 3d model sculpt quality. .
For normal infantry or tanks I use 0.05 but for characters I do 0.03 or 0.02 (for a primarch). Layer lines aren't as noticeable on the table so 0.05 for 90% of people is fine. But yes, for display minis you want to go for something closer to 0.03 with AA on a printer with sub 30 um pixels.
100% agree with you on the sculpts though. I'm going through my 1tb of files to determine which files are too low poly.
@@antongunther3977 geeze resin is insane resolution compared to FDM(or FFF as some prefer to call it), here I am happy when I set my Prusa MK3+ to .15.
poly can be reduced with Blur/Anti-aliasing without loosing detail but its a delicate balancing act to say the least. But, finding better STL files is a much easier solution if available.
You'd think they'd know the difference but you'd be shocked how many people work in a store and don't know much about what they're selling.
Hi so I am new at the 3-D modeling printing and I was wondering which model you recommend if it’s a resin one or the other one and all of that?
It’s for fun 40k, d&d, aliens but we do want amazing quality and that it will last of for a while
what stood out for me was the details being slightly different to others the GW model Backpack sits lower and has a wider scoop on the head compared to the rest
You can tell the difference in the rounded parts for sure, this is only because the camera is so close you pick it up, in real life is so tiny that you wouldn't notice it.
I think it's very noticeable but just because of the STLs themselves.
When I settle down, I, too, want to get into 3d printing for the bits.
I'm teaching myself Blender so I can print myself a 100% custom WAAAGH! Orks as a concept are hilarious, but the GW-minnies are often lacking in their design.
Sculpting orks in perticular really aint that chalenging. I've been at it a week, and I feel confident that I'll have my first boyz ready for printing before the end of Orktober. I'm thinking Blood Axes
Did you suceed ?
I could get the real one simply because of the leg pose :) , super nice job anyway, keep up the good work man!
what gives the 3d printed one away? the artists didn't subdivided the spheres
if you want to have sooth like butter you need to sand them down a bit with sandpaper it removes those i belive printing lines?
It would be fun to see what someone could do with a "8k" model on a 8k printer... But i wonder if the stepping on round surfaces still would need to be taken care of.
I've done a video on fulgrim which would be 8k model and the tyranid at the end of the video would be the same but that's next week's video
@@battlebrothersam that's what got me subbed. What's crazy was before you released that video that very day I was thinking I wonder what cool files are out there for Fulgrim and then UA-cam read my mind and suggested your video.
you only need a sphere to make test such that.. everybody can model a sphere
Thanks for this video and tips I was able to print out a batch of these guys. I dont mind buying them but I want to master my painting skills on resin prints to golden demon level before dropping the cash on the real figures so they have paint job I can be proud to display.
Glad it was helpful!
Did you use anti-aliasing when you printed the 4K and 8K models? The polies are visible on things like the round bits of the backpacks, and I'm wondering if AA would reduce their obviousness.
Beginner question: What are the stipulations when it comes to using a 3D printed model for gameplay? Or if you're even allowed?
You mean using models you bought on ebay half-painted? Seller said they are legit.
Using anycubic mono 4k for my primaris-sized chaos space marines, i scaled, mixed and kitbashed a lot of stuff... Never had such problem. Too bad im quite an amateur at painting.
Anyway, i always use antialias on, and never had an problem with the "geometry" of the files, even on my old 2k models i had such thing. You should probably pray with more fervor to the machine spirit.
Hey I've been looking for some chaos space marines STLS but having trouble finding any units. Can you help recommend where to find good quality ones?
While GW pricing is high, that shouldn't justify stealing. But as pretty much anyone my age, I definetely downloaded many a video game/mp3/movie when I was young and couldn't afford much. I just wonder if it becomes too widespread it will impact the hobby. We are at the end of the day dependant on GW to design and release new models and rulesets.
what exactly was stolen here? GW does not own the name "space marine" nor their shape and design.
i think it does considering the absurd amount of profit they make. They should give us a fair price.
@@caragas9331 Any number of things make absurd amounts of profit, and I'm pretty sure you're not stealing from your local supermarket and apple store? And when you want a new car, do you go out and steal a ferrari?
the best way to compare those qualitys, its making car bodys, in a figure it doesnt impact so much as in a car
Can I suggest a easier and cleaner post print process: make sure you have all your protective stuff on. have a sealable lid container filled with 91-99 iso. Once the print plate has dripped the excess back into the vat, take the plate with print on it and dip the entire thing in the alcohol and swirl it around for a bit. Now that almost all the resin is gone, scrape the print from the plate. Once its off the plate, you can wipe the plate clean with the alcohol still on the plate..put it back on the printer. Then place all the prints (with supports still on) into a ultrasonic bath filled with more alcohol (clean ..it will stay clean for a while since you are prewashing with the first container). Run it for a minute or two. Once they come out of the ulrasonic bath, you can use some compressed air or a fan to completely evaporate the alcohol. Now place the entire print with supports and all into your curing station for 2-4 minutes. now that they are cured the supports will easily snap off and almost all of the prints can be cleaned by hand with no tools necessary. You will have flawless prints using this method..very few if any marks from supports and no shiny or white spots from uncured resin
could tell the difference in the close up with close inspection. however for sure irl i dont think 8k will look any different unless u dont clean it up well enough (u can stil see the print lines in the 4k and 8k)
The entire 2K, 4K, 8K is completely misleading, because it doesn't tell you what the actual detail level the printer is able to get out. A small scale 4K can have higher detail levels than a large scale 8K. The spec that matters is the XY Resolution.
Phrozen Sonic Mini 4K has a XY res of 35μm, whereas the Phrozen Sonic Mega 8K has a XY res of 43 µm. So if printing miniatures, you can get finer details with the Mini 4K than the Mega 8K. It's all about getting the right size for what you want to print, and just pay attention to the XY resolution, that's what matters.
You can easily tell which ones are printed by looking at circular shapes, you see the print lines really easily on those shapes
Not at .02mm layer hight it won't, he's not using a high quality model so you are actually looking at voxel lines, layer lines are invisible on a well supported models.
If you want use 600, 800, 1000, and 1200 grit to remove the pattern before priming. It's an extra mile but it will make a difference.
When you've done sprayed with undercoat and base coat, are the print lines still visible??
The horizontal lines on the legs on both the 4 and 8 k models gave it away.
weird on dpl i find i cant use pre-supports right out of the d/l as they are normally too weak :(
If you're worried about getting a staff member in trouble, send them to someone else to test at a shop.
Gotta,say using 8k has been mind blowing on detail
2k, 4k, and 8k is sorta enigmatic... your actual detail level is going to be a combination of the resolution and screen size I think. What are the different micron sizes?
I remember a while ago I watched a review of a 8k printer and the reviewer was setting it up against a 4k printer and determined 8k lost because the 4k prints were better. What he didn't realize was the 8k printer had a huge print bed and the 4k printer bed was a lot smaller. Printers need to be advertised by pixel density not by resolution. A 4k printer less than half the size of a 8k printer is going to be higher quality because of pixel density.
topology may be sloppy but the tiny vents show that detail definition on printed models exceeds the detail levels GW is putting on their own models
Really impressive results. Can't imagine what we'll be seeing in a few more years.
Are you using an 8K resin? If so, the toughness is simple. 4K resins have a slightly lower tensile strength than 8k resins, really just due to the formula. In most cases Standard 2k resins will have the lowest tensile strength. This will make the supports tougher, harder to pull off, and leave more damage. I love the compare and show, this is a great example of how printing has come full circle, and where as we were told that printers would never match the quality of injection molds a few years back, etc. like traditional models are made, or even resin molds and the like. Personally I feel the 4k and 8k are so close in quality either one is a little better looking than the GW version. Short of those polys, there is a blender trick you can use to smooth them out, but it does require some blender knowledge and a a bit of patience. Nice vids, btw. Got my sub.
Yes, Try to get a new 8K model into the store front but take a model and try to paint some resin over the layer lines in the area where they are visible befor putting them in the curer to remove them. @AlphaPhonix did it with a filament model and it works surprisingly well.
I just get some small sanding sticks of 1000-3000 grit and lightly smooth out the surfaces. I find this easier than resin.
I genuinly thought the GW model was 3D printed purely because of the knees. Well done bro I'm looking forward to upgrading from my mars2 pro when I finish my FIFO rotation
I would really like to see this same experiment with a higher quality STL and also printing with various resins, is 8k resin worth it? Does normal resin in an 8k printer compare to GW?
its easy to tell when you can see the polyfaces. Even on the printed models you can tell which are 3d-printed.
4 secs in I immediately know the middle model is the genuine article.
I wait to eat my words.
as an 3D Artsit i can tell you, use a higher res Model File, i got only an 2k Printer and with the proper file there are no Polygons visible!
I 3D print just for the huge variety of models not just Game Workshop inspired models but models from any creator that has interesting models
Is methylated spirits as good as using IPA? What's cheaper and are they just as good as each other?
def recommend using ball support removal tips and immersing parts in hot water while removing this will make it significantly easier to remove
does GW vacum form them for mass production or some other method?
0:59 those supports are way too big 0.18mm is fine.
jetpack style between GW and Prints is a dead give away.
Also looks like arms are vastly different.
Are you using anti aliasing? That can help a bit with the polygons as it smooths things out a bit.
It can be a pain to get your settings adjusted for it, but it can be worth it on printers with smaller pixel sizes.
Nice. Yeah like you said, the tell on them is the packs and shins. 4k and 8k are using a model with low polys on the pack, so you can see the edges on the spheres where it should be perfectly round. Also the 8k has a small layer artifact on it's right shin. The GW's tell is on the left shin. You can see some injection mold bubble flaws in the plastic there. Always an issue with how GW does their plastic.
But with a good model, 4k and 8k produce much better results IMO
The helmet was an easy giveaway but thats a modeling issues, not the printers fault
I say send your 3d print to one of your Patreons to submit to their local GW. I'd do it, but I swore never to set foot into one again.
A lot of slicers can slice from things like, 3mf, where the artifacts from circles and spheres are a non issue and it'd come down to the resolution of the screen. If you can, avoid slicing from an STL at all. I kinda stumbled in here from FDM land, but those tessellation artifacts are strictly due to the STL.
if you look at the elbow pads you can always tell stls usually have polygons on the elbows
the poly are really noticable on the elbows and rounded parts, thats easy to fix if you have any 3d software (wonder why it isnt actually)
Would it be possible to print them in 1:72 scale with good results?
I had a friend that's hugely into 40K and told me to just buy the stuff and that 3D printing was bad quality.
I ignored his advice and bought an Saturn 2 8K.
He almost immediately has since changed his tune and I've printed off a few large figures for him saving him close to 1K, plus the models are better too.