Comparing 2k vs 4k vs 8k 3D Printed Space Marines to Games Workshop
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- Опубліковано 14 кві 2023
- Can you tell which one of these models is 3d printed? I 3d printed a space marine in 2k, 4k and 8k to compare 3d printing against the official Games Workshop models.
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This video was inspired from channels like Midwinter Minis, Goobertown Hobbies, WintersSeo, Say Hi Paul, Squidmar Miniatures, Miniac Painting, Black Magic Craft, Real Terrain Hobbies and Geek gaming scenics.
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Check how anti aliasing affects support strength, I’ve very much noticed the same thing
If you need a high-res SM model I have something I have been cooking up and am looking to publish in the near future. Let me know and I would be glad to send you a preview.
Been following your content for a while. I used your "This Is Everything You Need To 3D Print Warhammer Models" as a guide for getting my first resin printer a couple months ago. Thanks for all the content and community you foster.
Won’t they be able to tell from the weight?
I wish I had those stl files 😢
why not... 2k vs 4k vs 8k vs.... *40K* 3D printed Space Marine
Comparing 2k, 4k, 8k and 40k. Go for higher quality STL.
I tried to keep it fair between the printers but i should've printed a HD model as well! Lessons learned
@@battlebrothersam Great video all the same!
@@battlebrothersam probably would have been more fair to print the highest quality model on each to get a fair assessment.
Love the content. You are my favorite 3d printing content creator
Hi are you a robot?
Miniatures community are snobs.. oh you have a 4k printer how very droll.
With how much has evolved in the past 2 years in printer and resin technology, let's see how STL's have evolved as well! Strangely the bolter not being hollowed out was a clear giveaway for the games workshop model for me!
for me it was the layer shift on the left legs mid shin, as well as a layer line on right knee pad. Tho the non hollow bolter i though was cause he forgot to drill it NGL lol
For me it was the design of the helmet, GWs is just alot better sculpted.
Not the massive blocky lines on the round surface of the powerpack?
@@SiggyCloud haha no XD didnt even look there
You can still hollow it
If the starting STL is lower poly it won't really matter which printer it was printed on, in fact the higher the resolution the more it would prob highlight the lower poly's. If you'd started with a higher quality STL and then did the comparison I feel it would of been a bit more useful. Of course the difficulties of finding a 1 to 1 for a GW model would prob also be more difficult as well. Interesting idea for a video at least.
I don't really see the point of the "plan", personally there are so many STL creators out there that showcase how much better 3d prints can be than GW's stuff already. Passing as a GW model is hardly a challenge IMO.
Yeah , he should have selected a high-quality STL in first place and then do the whole 2k , 4k thing imo
I've mentioned in the past, you are one of the main reasons I started including 3d printing into my collections. Cheap, easy to commission models, and fun when it comes to customizations. Please don't poke the bear that is GW, you might be a smaller channel, but your content is great and I'd hate to see them wreck your shit simply cause you pissed them off. Lets be real they are petty af. Love your vids Sam!
"Lets be real they are petty af."
Exactly. Look at how they went after Gamza once he started doing those price comparison videos where he was showing just how much cheaper 3D printed models are compared to buying from GW.
I'm really hoping that the Amazon 40k 'universe' takes off, GW makes a tremendous amount of money, and they just license it like Pathfinder, where fans can make their own stuff. The amount of money they are making with the IP and other media must absolutely dwarf profits they are making with minis, and that gap is only going to get wider.
Certain slicing programs have anti-aliasing settings that can reduce the “grow lines” and edge fractals on those lines.
It’s worth experimenting to get right, because if you can dial it in, it produces nearly flawless prints that don’t look printed at all
I think it would be best to just do the priming and compare to make the differences more clear. Painting tends to hide these things.
Or highlight depending on the techniques used, like dry brushing. Agreed on the priming only
It's because he doesn't know how to thin his paints, they all look the same with the chunky ass paint.
For these small details Sam do you use antialiasing moddifier? With my Elegoo Saturn 2 8K this option gives me smooth models. Also you can "smooth" the low poly areas with ZBRush
You know what I don't think I do!!! I should try that first but thanks I didn't know about zbrush!
If you know Space Marines, you instantly know which head is the real deal.
Just wanna say sam your content quality has taken a quantum leap forward in the short time you've been making content. Really great job man keep it up.
Thanks brother!
Thank you so much, I'm buying a printer after my big exams, and may have made a document which contains stl's for 4 armies, and pieces to bulk out kits planned for the future, thank you for being so inspirational.
Thanks brother!
Lots of high quality space marine backpack stls out there, you can definitely print models to the same quality as HIPS casting. I could tell as you were painting which one was GW though because it had a mold line.
I'd be interested to see if you used Anti-Aliasing on the 4K and 8K printers if it would fix the polygons on the backpacks.
So the problem with the polys has to do with the STL and not the printer. you'd need to take it into a modelling software like maya or blender and increase the polycount to smooth it out.
@@preddes6522 your slicer has an anti-aliasing feature to alleviate poor polycount
@@terugue This. Anti aliasing was introduced to help blend out layer shifts, and if he's using an 8k printer then it should have zero layer lines.
@@terugue Not really. Anti-aliasing is to reduce the "sampling error" caused by the finite detail density capability (in this case the resolution along the X-Y plane) of the LCD screen by some sort of "over sampling" (by varying intensity or exposure time on concerned areas). But it won't help on the problem of low polycount as it is a problem of the model and not the method of its reproduction.
On the other hand image blur would indiscriminately wash away the sharp edges somewhat covering up the low poly nature of the model.
@@peterkiss1204 Most of us dump Image Blur into AA as it's a suboption within the AA menu in Chitu, that's not able to be enabled unless you tick the AA box.
Great comparisons and I'd definitely like to see around round with the highest resolution STLs you can find, unless there's a way to raise the DPI of the existing STL directly, which would also be a very interesting effort for those of us who, like you have been collecting GW-like models for several years. Thanks for the video, well done, m8.
DPI is a measurement that applies to the screen not the sculpt. you need a higher poly model with more detail. Whie you could say higher resolution in both instance when doing so you are talking about different things. A higher DPI printer will show more details or lack there of in the models. with more polys or tessellation you will get smoother results. As the printers become more capable they will start to display the faults of the lower quality models. With the right software he could have imported that model and upscaled the number of polys to help with the tessellation. He could also have done a slight bit of sanding. While I don't play GW I do think companies selling good models for us to print is probably a good way to go.
Did you use anti-aliasing when you printed the 4K and 8K models? The polies are visible on things like the round bits of the backpacks, and I'm wondering if AA would reduce their obviousness.
Really impressive results. Can't imagine what we'll be seeing in a few more years.
Focusing on 2k/4k/8k doesn't really mean much. It's more about x/y resolution. An 4k printer with a 5 inch buildplate will produce the same detail as an 8k with a 10 inch buildplate.
With that said IMO anything with an xy resolution of 30ish microns or less will replicate models indistinguishable from GW save any layer lines/ file differences.
I had a phrozen sonic mini 8k sitting in the box for a year because the mini 4k that I was using was that good.
The place where high resolution printers shine their ability to retain all the detail while still cranking up the anti-aliasing for smooth high detail prints.
This comment should be higher.
do a real test!
drop them from table hight on carpet or wooden floor, see which model survives and which gets obliterated
So I see you like to bring suffering 😂😂
lol alas the curse of my 3d printed gribblies :). my fabulous Great unclean one had this summary death recently while moving home :). still cant cry I had 5 more printed out waiting in box to be painted :)
poly can be reduced with Blur/Anti-aliasing without loosing detail but its a delicate balancing act to say the least. But, finding better STL files is a much easier solution if available.
In addition to using/not using hot water, your 8k is probably slightly overXP meaning your supports are stronger on it 👍
While modeling from scratch in Blender is a bit daunting, you can import the low poly model you have and try an operation called "Sub-divide faces". As long as the stl is a manifold (no holes and only one face) that should work a treat to make all those poly faces disappear.
this will harm sharp edges, so you should manually mark sharp edges as seams first, then subdivide with a reduced weight for the seems. This will keep the seams sharp and smooth the rest
@@Adlore Hey, thanks for the good info! I'm still very much an amateur at Blender. I guess this would explain why some of the models I've tried this on look like crap...lol. I will definately try that out the next time I need to smooth some low poly models.
Are you using the Cones of Calibration to make sure your exposure settings are right?
It's the exposure calibration that doesn't rely on human perception, it has a pass-fail design, and I think you may want to use it to get your exposures correct.
With both the Leviathan and 10th Ed. Ultimate Starter being $250+, and individual characters going for $50 - $100 each, GW is pushing people to 3D printers. For the price of the two sets I mentioned, you can get a 12K printer. It is outrageous what they are charging for plastic and At the detail these are at now, I see more and more people moving to resin printing. And with other games openly sharing their STLs or making them available for a fee, it is just enhancing the reasons to print your own models.
I saw some info saying that 8k printers create fillets in corners unless you use a more opaque resin due to finer layers and light bleed. This is probably what is strengthening your supports. Go with a darker resin to fix it. You will have to cure for longer though.
I can see the polygonization easily. I also see striations (layer steps) quite conspicuously on the thigh, edge of the gorget and elsewhere. There's also a layer shift line on the shin of one leg, on both printed models.
I hope you get a finer detail mesh model and attempt to place it in the store. You might have to go with a finer layer height if that's possible (it will make the support fillets worse so you will need darker resin).
Hi so I am new at the 3-D modeling printing and I was wondering which model you recommend if it’s a resin one or the other one and all of that?
It’s for fun 40k, d&d, aliens but we do want amazing quality and that it will last of for a while
higher quality stl would go a long ways, thinner support attachment points(what your using on this model seems really heavy, with my saturn 2 i do the majority of my work with .2 and .3mm tips for supports and just a few.5mm tips to anchor the bottom of the feet and major assemblies) and just a question what are you using for aa settings and layer height? usually run 8xaa on sharpen details and 30 um(pairs well with the 28um pixel size to help reduce stair stepping)
This is probably the only video I can think of that I honestly wish was also filmed in 4k.
I guessed all three correct the give away on the 4k is the right (from the marines perspective) grieve there appears to be a layer shift and on the 8k model the layer shift is on the left grieve. It was difficult to find it even with the model in full sized for the HD screen. I'd imagine that layer shift would be hard to see before painting so it might be difficult to hide unless it was fixed then repainted.
Are you using anti aliasing? That can help a bit with the polygons as it smooths things out a bit.
It can be a pain to get your settings adjusted for it, but it can be worth it on printers with smaller pixel sizes.
i got myself my first 3d printer just this month its the elegoo saturn s cant wait to actually start printing
Great video wish I was able to 3d print my own so I could give it a try too.
the bravest man on youtube right here. He gets those emails from GW and sends them straight to spam, god bless you
Sam, I hope you know this but, just in case, and for your audience, resolution is only half the picture. Its about how many pixels the screen fits into a given area, also called the XY Accuracy. A 6" 2k screen has as many pixels per sq cm as a 4k 10" screen, so they produce the same results. The original Mars (2k) and the original Saturn (4k) have basically the same XY accuracy. If you're comparing two printers with the same build volume the one with higher resolution is better but if the screen is bigger you have to think about more than just resolution.
This is why the best printer currently available is the Phrozen sonic mini 8k at 22 micron xy accuracy (compared to something like the Saturn 2's 28 micron or the original Saturn or Mars's 50 Micron) though it is be about to be eclipsed by the Saturn 3 or Anycubic M5s at about 19 micron both of which have Saturn like screen sizes, but 12k screens.
I 3D print just for the huge variety of models not just Game Workshop inspired models but models from any creator that has interesting models
I'm not sure what it says about me... but... I really want to know where you got that roll out rubber tray at 1:06 from!
what stood out for me was the details being slightly different to others the GW model Backpack sits lower and has a wider scoop on the head compared to the rest
You can alter support density in Chitubox if doing your own, i think the default is 50%. The issue with many presupported stl files is the supports are read as part of the model and are the same density.
I could get the real one simply because of the leg pose :) , super nice job anyway, keep up the good work man!
Good video! Have you run an exposure test with your 8k printer and the resin your using? You may be over exposing your prints and thats why the supports are harder to get off. Also, siraya tech makes a great 8k resin.
From N.I.? - greetings from one Norn Irn guy to another!! Always enjoyable - keep going!
If you use a rotary tool with a nylon brush, or MAYBE the brass brush (careful with that one), you can smooth out the low-poly lines.
When you've done sprayed with undercoat and base coat, are the print lines still visible??
Yes, Try to get a new 8K model into the store front but take a model and try to paint some resin over the layer lines in the area where they are visible befor putting them in the curer to remove them. @AlphaPhonix did it with a filament model and it works surprisingly well.
I just get some small sanding sticks of 1000-3000 grit and lightly smooth out the surfaces. I find this easier than resin.
When I settle down, I, too, want to get into 3d printing for the bits.
Hey im just researching 3d printers as i want to get in to printing mainly for warhammer what would be the ideal printer with a 600cad limit ?
the best way to compare those qualitys, its making car bodys, in a figure it doesnt impact so much as in a car
I think it's very noticeable but just because of the STLs themselves.
Great video. Certain things on all 3D printed models are a dead give away though. I’ve not seen an stl so far where the backpack or the helmet look right.
On the highend consumer 3d printers, i cant see any difference..Though those are quite pricey so if its only for miniatures its probably alot cheaper to just buy from GW..
I would really like to see this same experiment with a higher quality STL and also printing with various resins, is 8k resin worth it? Does normal resin in an 8k printer compare to GW?
Thanks for this video and tips I was able to print out a batch of these guys. I dont mind buying them but I want to master my painting skills on resin prints to golden demon level before dropping the cash on the real figures so they have paint job I can be proud to display.
Glad it was helpful!
I don't think you should continue with your secret plan it doesn't accomplish much, 3D artist is pushing the SM template father than the GW has in the past few years, I even seen Crab Marines. A better test is to find a busy Park/Street and ask people what models are better and why. Then tell them the price. People Drop Jaws its funny to see the avg person trip balls over the price of a plastic model lol
Gotta remember "A good paintjob adds detail to a bad mini, But a bad paintjob can forever ruin a great mini"
I'm doing it in 2k, because I still haven't had the money to buy a 4k one, it's been working very well
2k is great and it's getting cheaper every year
@@battlebrothersam The Mars 2 is already 100$ don't know if they can get any cheaper . Tbh with the printer prices so cheap already I cant understand people who still spend like 500-700$ on a 2k point army
It's going to get to the point where GW will have to lower prices because people will start making their own models.
Another Amazing video Brother
Thanks brother!
If the supports are tougher in the 8k you can probably lower the exposure time a bit and get even more detail
Have you tried using blender's voxel remesh at the printer's resolution to check if you'll see the faces beforehand? you could add a subdivision modifier to smooth them out
The horizontal lines on the legs on both the 4 and 8 k models gave it away.
This was a great video. I like how you compared the three models, but it was obvious to me which ones were 3D printed. You could still see the lines. However, that being said, from across the table, no one would be able to tell them apart. We've even seen instances where GW used 3d-printed models for their Warhammer World dioramas. 3D printing is that good!...but still distinguishable, in my opinion.
If you want use 600, 800, 1000, and 1200 grit to remove the pattern before priming. It's an extra mile but it will make a difference.
The Emperor of Games Workshop is tracking your position !
Where I can get those stl models to print???
A lot of slicers can slice from things like, 3mf, where the artifacts from circles and spheres are a non issue and it'd come down to the resolution of the screen. If you can, avoid slicing from an STL at all. I kinda stumbled in here from FDM land, but those tessellation artifacts are strictly due to the STL.
I'm able to tell the WS appart only beithe others doesn't have the small square detail on the right knee, but quality wise, they look awesome. I've been wanting to buy a 3d printer for price and to print other stuff, this comparison makes me want to buy it even more
I think it's time to update this video. I have a 3dprinter that prints 18um pixel size with 20um layer height. I see absolutely no lines after priming my models and I usually have eagle eyes when it comes to layer lines.
The 4k and 8k models still had support marks, and had aliasing on the legs and collars that give them away as 3D printed models at any resolution. If you're not going to clean those up, then trying to get one of your models displayed in an official GW store's window is stabbing the management at that store right in the back.
What are some things to look out for if I want to print Mechanicus?
6:02 unfortunately due to the low poly density on the 3d model´s backpack domes one can easily tell that the left and the right model are 3d printed. You can see the problem here at 0:54
Other than that it is rather hard to tell and thus it is awesome to see how far 3d printing has come already :D
pretty much an easy giveaway.
Where do you get your stl files from
Wuw!! yes I keep getting alerts forthe past couple of videos ha :-) (layer levels is very key as well as a good quality printer) :-) also when I have done supports for models (rare as it might be) I make the connection point to the model as thin as possible with little contact/depth.
Brother yag!! Hope you're well! Glad to see UA-cam is finally recommending me to you 😂😂 I think I have my pen set to 0.2mm so maybe that was a problem!
@@battlebrothersam Yeah that is a fat boy alright lol Yeah man I know ha nice to see everything coming along well for you bud :-) So happy for you. I totally took this whole week off from the gym besides back day. I have been burning both sides for months on end and body is all messed up and tired ha deload week this coming week.
if you look at the elbow pads you can always tell stls usually have polygons on the elbows
you can tell what is and isnt printed by the print lines on the models.. but that is easily sorted with a lil controlled sanding..
great work either way.. looks great
Does First Born Stl files exist that are the same size as GW's Primaris marines?
Even if they don't you can scale up quite easily
Is methylated spirits as good as using IPA? What's cheaper and are they just as good as each other?
def recommend using ball support removal tips and immersing parts in hot water while removing this will make it significantly easier to remove
We have an elegoo 8k Saturn. The quality and speed by which we are printing tanks and full squads is so exciting. I cannot justify spending GW kind of money on models. I will consider getting books and supplies from local stores to support them. Just time to be fiscally responsible.
I genuinly thought the GW model was 3D printed purely because of the knees. Well done bro I'm looking forward to upgrading from my mars2 pro when I finish my FIFO rotation
Last week my first printer came in, i am happy that i choose for saturn 2 it was on sale and the large build plate is good for me and the details are woow, online i mis the internet and ap on your Phone what the anycubic have but for a price diffrence from almost 200 euro's i can live with out it. Hahah
hello brothers, I want to get a 3d printer but i dont know wich one to pick ¿do you have any recomentations?
depend on what you want to play. if you want to play wine and or really onramented armys a smaller printer with better resolution is the choice, for a horde or tank army a bigger printer , to put yout more models at the same time makes more sense. i print scince the "Astartes" incident and use a Elagoo Saturn, wich is totally fine to use if you want to print truescale marines. for finer miniature this is sometimes a littlebit tricky but i wouldnt want to miss the ability to print a tank the size of a macharius in 3 prints so about one to two days. best is to inform yourself about the printer. and the comparison. imo a 8k printer is for starters way overkill atleast if you dont want to print high detailed busts.
I would say any saturn sized printer if it suits your budget
@@RestlessSoul45 have you heard of the creality halot one? do you know if its a good printer? cause thats the only 3d printer I can find where i live
Nice. Yeah like you said, the tell on them is the packs and shins. 4k and 8k are using a model with low polys on the pack, so you can see the edges on the spheres where it should be perfectly round. Also the 8k has a small layer artifact on it's right shin. The GW's tell is on the left shin. You can see some injection mold bubble flaws in the plastic there. Always an issue with how GW does their plastic.
But with a good model, 4k and 8k produce much better results IMO
Where do you get the STLs?
does GW vacum form them for mass production or some other method?
weird on dpl i find i cant use pre-supports right out of the d/l as they are normally too weak :(
Beginner question: What are the stipulations when it comes to using a 3D printed model for gameplay? Or if you're even allowed?
You mean using models you bought on ebay half-painted? Seller said they are legit.
I will tell you how they will know its 3D printed and its not based off the looks it will be because of the weight. You can 100% feel the difference in weight from a mold injected plastic GW space marine versus a much heavier dense resin 3D print. The only way to test your theory is too not allow the GW shop owner to hold the piece and that's unlikely.
BUT if you placed the space marine in a small display case and handed it to them, they won't detect the weight difference.
Good video, dude!
Would it be possible to print them in 1:72 scale with good results?
I find 3d printing has come a long way. I haven't been disappointed with my prints. They say you need a lot of fine tuning and what not, but I really didn't do much fiddling to get prints that I thought rivaled stuff bought from GW/PP/etc.
The helmet was an easy giveaway but thats a modeling issues, not the printers fault
Using anycubic mono 4k for my primaris-sized chaos space marines, i scaled, mixed and kitbashed a lot of stuff... Never had such problem. Too bad im quite an amateur at painting.
Anyway, i always use antialias on, and never had an problem with the "geometry" of the files, even on my old 2k models i had such thing. You should probably pray with more fervor to the machine spirit.
Hey I've been looking for some chaos space marines STLS but having trouble finding any units. Can you help recommend where to find good quality ones?
Keep up the good work!
Great video!
could tell the difference in the close up with close inspection. however for sure irl i dont think 8k will look any different unless u dont clean it up well enough (u can stil see the print lines in the 4k and 8k)
You'd think they'd know the difference but you'd be shocked how many people work in a store and don't know much about what they're selling.
its easy to tell when you can see the polyfaces. Even on the printed models you can tell which are 3d-printed.
Can I suggest a easier and cleaner post print process: make sure you have all your protective stuff on. have a sealable lid container filled with 91-99 iso. Once the print plate has dripped the excess back into the vat, take the plate with print on it and dip the entire thing in the alcohol and swirl it around for a bit. Now that almost all the resin is gone, scrape the print from the plate. Once its off the plate, you can wipe the plate clean with the alcohol still on the plate..put it back on the printer. Then place all the prints (with supports still on) into a ultrasonic bath filled with more alcohol (clean ..it will stay clean for a while since you are prewashing with the first container). Run it for a minute or two. Once they come out of the ulrasonic bath, you can use some compressed air or a fan to completely evaporate the alcohol. Now place the entire print with supports and all into your curing station for 2-4 minutes. now that they are cured the supports will easily snap off and almost all of the prints can be cleaned by hand with no tools necessary. You will have flawless prints using this method..very few if any marks from supports and no shiny or white spots from uncured resin
The giveaway for me was the pose. i've seen it a million times.
4 secs in I immediately know the middle model is the genuine article.
I wait to eat my words.
Do you provide links to the stls on your Patreon?
I do but this file is gone iirc
Where would you get WH stls?