I just recently had an ASA print I knew was going to try to warp, so I used a smooth PEI build plate I knew would stick pretty well. Ended up with two failures, the first one the part warped away from the support material, and the nozzle crashed into it, the second one I flipped the part over and it pried my build plate off the magnets just enough that it shifted in the last couple layers. Had a terrible top surface, but luckily it was the back side(which would be against the side of the house), and good enough to clean up with a deburring tool. As for how I'd fix it if I had to re-print it, seal up the enclosure better.
With layer shift or other motion issues, also check to see if your motor pulley has a grub screw attaching it to the motor shaft. If so, check to see if it has gotten loose and tighten it back down as needed. They can work themselves loose over time if the manufacturer didn't apply loctite well during the manufacturing process.
Heat creep; if you run your retractions a little too long, you could easily get full melty into the heat break where it promptly freezes and jams. I was running into this with TPU especially. TPU, in addition to being extra flexy, conducts heat better than some metals. it's best not to let the flow rate drop too low for any period of time for this reason
If you're using baby stepping, the ruffles have ridges effect can be from a very small difference. Adjust it .01 or .03mm at a time. Takes a little longer to make sure it's right, but it will save you from going from too close to too far quickly, which can be extremely frustrating.
Can't emphasize enough - keep the bed clean! The #1 problem I see in Reddit and other places, even with high end printers like Bambu and Prusa - is prints not sticking due to a dirty bed. It doesn't take much to lose adhesion - even an invisible amount of something like oils from your skin can cause it to lose adhesion.
On my old MK3, I recognized that the PINDA probe didn't sense the surface of the build plate, rather the steel core. Different build plate surface types have different thicknesses between the core and the print surface. This is why the MK3 menu has configurable sheet types for the user's different sheets. This is all good and well until the user does something to change the relative position of the PINDA probe to the tip of the nozzle (like changing nozzles for a different size, different composition, replacing a damaged nozzle, etc. This will throw off all of the user's carefully configured saved sheet settings. What I ended up doing is I kept a spreadsheet for my different build sheets. I defined one of my sheets as my master sheet and in the spreadsheet I stored the delta between each sheet and the master sheet. That way when I did something to the hotend (change nozzle, apply "S" or "+" upgrade that replaces all the plastic structure, etc), I only had to do a Live Z calibration once on the master and the spreadsheet calculated the correct setting for all my other sheets.
I've actually been helping a few people who got their first printers and have NO IDEA what they are doing. The first thing I tell them is to stop printing models and get to know their printer. It's like getting a new car. Sure, it's nice to just hop behind the wheel and drive but it's kind of a good idea to learn where the buttons and switches are and what they do. Get a feel for the brakes and gas peddle before you head out into traffic. I find impatience is the SINGLE biggest problem most people will have. I like to advise that they also take the hotend apart and get familiar with it because they WILL have to do some work in there eventually. And I ALWAYS assume someone in the factory missed tightening something and they NEVER seem to have tightened the nozzle when it's hot...and then they get the dreaded blob and have an even worse time than if they had just slowed down to begin with. Then learn how to set you z offset and never just take the automatic value that the machine sets as perfect. I consider the automatically set z offset to be a suggestion and I ALWAYS dial it in manually myself. The last piece of advice I give is that you might need to contact support. I've worked in support so I know EXACTLY what it's like on both sides of that conversation and I will say with absolute authority that if you go in HOT you AIN'T getting the help you need. We just tune you out and "read from the script". You yell at me when I'm trying to help and I stop listening until you calm down and stop your tantrum. lol. So I tell them to be clear and concise, get to the point and be nice about it. You are asking for help, not demanding it. Also accept that chances are support is in china so NOTHING is going to get done instantly. Again, patience is golden here.
One I don't see mentioned enough as most folks assume filament needs to be dried first: if you're on the last 1/3rd of a roll and you leave your filament loaded and it has broken after sitting for a while, it may be mechanical stress rather than moisture. If a roll was sitting for a while in a warehouse, that filament is used to being tightly wound. Leaving it streched out can cause it to fail and break. Luckily, if it happens to you, just unload the filament when you're done printing, leave it rolled on the spool, and re-load it when you want to print again, and it'll work fine. When it starts happening, make sure to bend the end of the filament until it stops snapping to make sure you're loading the non-brittle part of the filament into the printer. Usually, it's only a few centimeters of the end, so there's minimal filament loss.
I come to find out even not touching the plate filaments can leave a residue a soap bath with dish soap it the first step in plate not holding the filaments ...
Printing ASA,ABS,Nylon,CF and the like; if you have an open printer, spring for the carbon fiber or glass fiber variants, they warp much less than the base models. A warning, YOU WILL eat the cr@p out of your extruder gears, filament sensor and nozzles on fairly short order. make sure to have extra parts on hand. The good news with this stuff is, you might be able to reslice or reengineer your part to use a fraction of the material to produce.
Think your losing most of the good things about attlest nylon if you aren't printing it on a inclost printer(the layer bonding), and in my experience you still experies to much warping
@@davidconner-shover51 That might be way I am struggling Using a steel nozzle. Have now built a all steel frame 3d printer fore my nylon that I can heat to 100c and it is somehow dunent loos calibration
Thanks for the great tips! I'm a noob with a MK4s. Only printed 4 things at the moment. I am sure these tips will come in handy in the future, hopefully the distant future. I have one question, you mentioned living in Florida and I see filament behind you just sitting in the open. How is humidity not a problem for you?
What is the over-under on those silicone socks on your hotend? My CR-10 V3 came with one and I've just left it on there because it feels like the better choice than having filament be able to gum up against the hotend proper.
Print fix plz: is there an extruder that is known as the panacea for flexabke filaments. Jsut watched sweedish maker failing with flexibles except on a modified creality with a 'microswiss'... Is that the best thing to buy?
I know of the microswiss extruder but the panacea I dont know. It all depends on your printer setup really, but the BIG thing with TPU is make sure it is dry, even if it is new, dry it.
For the Ruffles have Ridges issue. I actually had a different solution in my case. Running a MK4 regular extruder. Technically shouldn't be too close. So I though over extruding. But that led to poor top layer. After some Prusa tech support it turned out to be running a little too hot on filament. I was printing Jessie PLA at 220. Dropped it to 200 and smooth AF. Had to lower my Jessie Elixir to 190 and now smooth AF as well.
@ I have reseated them, tried two different ones. Only thing that appeased my filament, was lowering the temp. After the suggestions from your email, some back and forth with Prusa support. They suggested running hotter and colder as tests. I have a second MK4S in route to test on. Really for business purposes. I did dry the filament before. I also ran some overture that has been out for months, and was a little brittle. Shocked in ran through my MMU3 PTFE wild ride without breaking. EDIT: reposted this with same user as before. Did not notice before.
My aunt in her late 70s asked when they would have 3D printers that would be easy enough for someone not technically inclined to use. Doesn't sound like something coming out very soon?
Many companies are trying for that exact thing but its very troublesome and may require people uploading gcode files for that exact printer maby AI assist could help but that may be the only other option other then like gcode for the ender 3 getting posted
that is what she has you for ;) But no, since even 2D printers still require SOME technical know-how, I dont see these getting to the ease of a toaster any time soon. Is that good? Maybe?
Is there a current printer recommended list? Its been some time since ive done 3d printing (printer wasnt mine) but im looking to get one that will be versatile, yet will in no way require an internet connection or keep me locked in some specific eco system. Privacy is important to me so i feel that pretty much rules out Bambu. While it would be great to have one detailed enough for miniatures, the primary focus will be more utilitarian (but being able to print decently detailed minis would be really nice). Ive seen both positive and negative reviews/comments around just about every printer brand ive seen so im kinda at a loss.
@@CasGRos Beaches minis? fff? Havent heard of these. As stated, primary focus for prints are utilitarian things. Brackets, grid storage, fittings for things, replacements for broken parts (such as gears and such). Things of that nature. Printing minis is secondary and honestly, something i may get a resin printer for way down the line if/when i get into that if i need something for super detail. I was looking at something from QIDI but with the recent vids about failures in some of those, i'm now unsure about them. I was looking at something with an enclosure that i could graduate to more advanced materials (for strengths and such) and maybe cut down on noise abit.
Printers are like cars. If you break them, they stop working. But really, all joking aside, you'll want to regularly maintain it by cleaning it up, re-lubricating rods and lead screws, and replacing parts occasionally that wear out like PTFE tubes, nozzles (depending on what you print and what your nozzle is made of), belts, fans, etc.
I disagree in terms of the gantry leveling being a huge expense, there is the sovol 08 which is cheap and can do it and the core one has three motors and it would only take them two additional drivers
The sv08 is what, like $800? Not sure I'd call that cheap but I get what you're saying. Hell, even Bambu uses a single motor in the z. The core one could do it, but why? Just smack it all the way up or down and let it skip til it's right. Barbaric? Sure, but it works a treat no?
I am almost surprised that no off the shelf enclosed printer has ever offered a screen door accessory, So people who might have a reason to want the door closed for other reasons. could still have a closed door but not lose the air flow for PLA.
I figure, without a draft, that a screen door would insulate better than you'd think. Are there any screen door mods? I have seen any but I also haven't looked
@@3DMusketeers I have never seen a mod of this idea either. I tend to think of stuff like this while bored at work or in the shower. And Prusa has a better idea anyway in their upcoming CoreONE. some intake slats and a temperature controlled fan. Same bored brain is why the chamber lights on my 2.4 turn on when I open the Clicky-Clacky door. A mod to a mod if you will. The door mod is called a fridge door and so I thought "the lights should turn on when its opened like a fridge". A microswitch and toggle switch later and now they do and I can turn them on when the door is closed without involving Klipper. The door switch mod is purely electrical.
`I am having an issue with my K2 and orca. The plate size in orca with crealitys given profile is an actual 310 mm, and set up at 350 mm. My bed is 370 mm, and there is clearance for 365 mm all around. When I modify the profile and input 365 x 365 x 350 for height, -5 or 10 for x and y it gives me an out of range error. I am stuck using creality print because there I can at least print something 348 mm long or tall. Help?
That is beaches configuration on you printer is smaller and or your you didn't Chang the configuration correctly, when are you geting the auto of range error,(in the slicer or on the printer)
@@CasGRos I followed the creality page instructions and downloaded the profile from them, since they make the printer. I get the error on the printer screen, not the slicer. 310 mm is a bummer when my bed is 370 and my space is 350 by design. The printer connects well, ports are working. Have to say, the profile belongs to a k1 max, and creality has us changing the name to K2.
@@Foreign_Tropical Ok so the error is on the printer, that means that the configuration on the printer limits the base so when you edits the prihnte aria in the slicer the printer detect it, what exactly is the error
New printer here. READ EVERYTHING! I didn't and I messed up my 0.2 mm nozzle. I ran metal filament through it. It fused and no amount of cold pulls or heating and poking saved it.
Well a 0.2mm nozzle and metal filament are asking for problems. Anything filled needs 0.4mm minimum with 0.6mm recommended and minimally hardened steel.
I'm seeing a number of new users with old school enders and having nothing but problems. I'm like......dammit I keep telling people not to buy these things.
Ah yes the hotend burn one of the many hazing tactics used by the industry to remind you of #2 fun, the fun that sucks in the moment but you recount fondly especially when it happens to others ;) Cold end clogs are surprisingly common especially for filament that expands like silks.
@@3DMusketeers No this whas the last of a 5kg role of gliter "pla" that i got from a person that ran a printfarm. To put in to context how old it was i got the new prusa mk3 thu same day. The prusa is still wurking finwhit no maintenes but the fillament is trach but i only use it fore prototypes. Am finely upgrading to a francenstine core xy printer that can reach 100c in the camber built and when the kinematics is mounted on a 10mm bilit of steel cut on the UNIs CNC(yes it was expensive) and using 10k in control electronic I got fore fre from a industrial distributer.
1:36 - My proudest (yet sadly useless) print failure and auto-recovery ever!
Tip on heat creep - don't turn the machine off until the hotend has cooled down. Turning off power turns off fans and can result in heat creep!
Wait, you turn your machines off?!?
@@3DMusketeers rarely, but only if the hotend has cooled down... ;)
i just have smart plugs added to my printers.. home assistant can turn them off once hotend goes below 50*..
@@Chaosekhow does the smart plug know the hotend temp?
one of my favorite parts of friday, printfix Friday! ^^
I just recently had an ASA print I knew was going to try to warp, so I used a smooth PEI build plate I knew would stick pretty well. Ended up with two failures, the first one the part warped away from the support material, and the nozzle crashed into it, the second one I flipped the part over and it pried my build plate off the magnets just enough that it shifted in the last couple layers. Had a terrible top surface, but luckily it was the back side(which would be against the side of the house), and good enough to clean up with a deburring tool. As for how I'd fix it if I had to re-print it, seal up the enclosure better.
With layer shift or other motion issues, also check to see if your motor pulley has a grub screw attaching it to the motor shaft. If so, check to see if it has gotten loose and tighten it back down as needed. They can work themselves loose over time if the manufacturer didn't apply loctite well during the manufacturing process.
Heat creep; if you run your retractions a little too long, you could easily get full melty into the heat break where it promptly freezes and jams. I was running into this with TPU especially.
TPU, in addition to being extra flexy, conducts heat better than some metals. it's best not to let the flow rate drop too low for any period of time for this reason
If you're using baby stepping, the ruffles have ridges effect can be from a very small difference. Adjust it .01 or .03mm at a time. Takes a little longer to make sure it's right, but it will save you from going from too close to too far quickly, which can be extremely frustrating.
Can't emphasize enough - keep the bed clean! The #1 problem I see in Reddit and other places, even with high end printers like Bambu and Prusa - is prints not sticking due to a dirty bed. It doesn't take much to lose adhesion - even an invisible amount of something like oils from your skin can cause it to lose adhesion.
On my old MK3, I recognized that the PINDA probe didn't sense the surface of the build plate, rather the steel core. Different build plate surface types have different thicknesses between the core and the print surface. This is why the MK3 menu has configurable sheet types for the user's different sheets. This is all good and well until the user does something to change the relative position of the PINDA probe to the tip of the nozzle (like changing nozzles for a different size, different composition, replacing a damaged nozzle, etc. This will throw off all of the user's carefully configured saved sheet settings. What I ended up doing is I kept a spreadsheet for my different build sheets. I defined one of my sheets as my master sheet and in the spreadsheet I stored the delta between each sheet and the master sheet. That way when I did something to the hotend (change nozzle, apply "S" or "+" upgrade that replaces all the plastic structure, etc), I only had to do a Live Z calibration once on the master and the spreadsheet calculated the correct setting for all my other sheets.
I've actually been helping a few people who got their first printers and have NO IDEA what they are doing. The first thing I tell them is to stop printing models and get to know their printer. It's like getting a new car. Sure, it's nice to just hop behind the wheel and drive but it's kind of a good idea to learn where the buttons and switches are and what they do. Get a feel for the brakes and gas peddle before you head out into traffic. I find impatience is the SINGLE biggest problem most people will have.
I like to advise that they also take the hotend apart and get familiar with it because they WILL have to do some work in there eventually. And I ALWAYS assume someone in the factory missed tightening something and they NEVER seem to have tightened the nozzle when it's hot...and then they get the dreaded blob and have an even worse time than if they had just slowed down to begin with. Then learn how to set you z offset and never just take the automatic value that the machine sets as perfect. I consider the automatically set z offset to be a suggestion and I ALWAYS dial it in manually myself.
The last piece of advice I give is that you might need to contact support. I've worked in support so I know EXACTLY what it's like on both sides of that conversation and I will say with absolute authority that if you go in HOT you AIN'T getting the help you need. We just tune you out and "read from the script". You yell at me when I'm trying to help and I stop listening until you calm down and stop your tantrum. lol. So I tell them to be clear and concise, get to the point and be nice about it. You are asking for help, not demanding it. Also accept that chances are support is in china so NOTHING is going to get done instantly. Again, patience is golden here.
And one more AWESOME video, Grant !
One I don't see mentioned enough as most folks assume filament needs to be dried first: if you're on the last 1/3rd of a roll and you leave your filament loaded and it has broken after sitting for a while, it may be mechanical stress rather than moisture. If a roll was sitting for a while in a warehouse, that filament is used to being tightly wound. Leaving it streched out can cause it to fail and break. Luckily, if it happens to you, just unload the filament when you're done printing, leave it rolled on the spool, and re-load it when you want to print again, and it'll work fine. When it starts happening, make sure to bend the end of the filament until it stops snapping to make sure you're loading the non-brittle part of the filament into the printer. Usually, it's only a few centimeters of the end, so there's minimal filament loss.
I come to find out even not touching the plate filaments can leave a residue a soap bath with dish soap it the first step in plate not holding the filaments ...
Printing ASA,ABS,Nylon,CF and the like; if you have an open printer, spring for the carbon fiber or glass fiber variants, they warp much less than the base models.
A warning, YOU WILL eat the cr@p out of your extruder gears, filament sensor and nozzles on fairly short order. make sure to have extra parts on hand.
The good news with this stuff is, you might be able to reslice or reengineer your part to use a fraction of the material to produce.
Think your losing most of the good things about attlest nylon if you aren't printing it on a inclost printer(the layer bonding), and in my experience you still experies to much warping
@@CasGRos .1mm layer height and
@@davidconner-shover51
That might be way I am struggling
Using a steel nozzle.
Have now built a all steel frame 3d printer fore my nylon that I can heat to 100c and it is somehow dunent loos calibration
Thanks for the great tips! I'm a noob with a MK4s. Only printed 4 things at the moment. I am sure these tips will come in handy in the future, hopefully the distant future. I have one question, you mentioned living in Florida and I see filament behind you just sitting in the open. How is humidity not a problem for you?
What is the over-under on those silicone socks on your hotend? My CR-10 V3 came with one and I've just left it on there because it feels like the better choice than having filament be able to gum up against the hotend proper.
Have spares, but we recommend to always have one on. Better than cleaning the whole hotend.
Print fix plz: is there an extruder that is known as the panacea for flexabke filaments. Jsut watched sweedish maker failing with flexibles except on a modified creality with a 'microswiss'... Is that the best thing to buy?
I know of the microswiss extruder but the panacea I dont know. It all depends on your printer setup really, but the BIG thing with TPU is make sure it is dry, even if it is new, dry it.
For the Ruffles have Ridges issue. I actually had a different solution in my case. Running a MK4 regular extruder. Technically shouldn't be too close. So I though over extruding. But that led to poor top layer. After some Prusa tech support it turned out to be running a little too hot on filament. I was printing Jessie PLA at 220. Dropped it to 200 and smooth AF. Had to lower my Jessie Elixir to 190 and now smooth AF as well.
Weird, I run Jessie hot.. is your nozzle seated well? We've seen them drop from time to time
@ I have reseated them, tried two different ones. Only thing that appeased my filament, was lowering the temp. After the suggestions from your email, some back and forth with Prusa support. They suggested running hotter and colder as tests. I have a second MK4S in route to test on. Really for business purposes. I did dry the filament before. I also ran some overture that has been out for months, and was a little brittle. Shocked in ran through my MMU3 PTFE wild ride without breaking.
EDIT: reposted this with same user as before. Did not notice before.
My aunt in her late 70s asked when they would have 3D printers that would be easy enough for someone not technically inclined to use. Doesn't sound like something coming out very soon?
Many companies are trying for that exact thing but its very troublesome and may require people uploading gcode files for that exact printer maby AI assist could help but that may be the only other option other then like gcode for the ender 3 getting posted
that is what she has you for ;)
But no, since even 2D printers still require SOME technical know-how, I dont see these getting to the ease of a toaster any time soon. Is that good? Maybe?
Add in, try to keep extra parts on hand - for when (not if) something goes awry.
YES!! Great advice!!
i got some wham bam flex plates for Christmas
Is there a current printer recommended list?
Its been some time since ive done 3d printing (printer wasnt mine) but im looking to get one that will be versatile, yet will in no way require an internet connection or keep me locked in some specific eco system. Privacy is important to me so i feel that pretty much rules out Bambu.
While it would be great to have one detailed enough for miniatures, the primary focus will be more utilitarian (but being able to print decently detailed minis would be really nice).
Ive seen both positive and negative reviews/comments around just about every printer brand ive seen so im kinda at a loss.
What are you exactly gonna print
Beaches minis are really hard to print on fff
@@CasGRos Beaches minis? fff? Havent heard of these.
As stated, primary focus for prints are utilitarian things. Brackets, grid storage, fittings for things, replacements for broken parts (such as gears and such). Things of that nature. Printing minis is secondary and honestly, something i may get a resin printer for way down the line if/when i get into that if i need something for super detail. I was looking at something from QIDI but with the recent vids about failures in some of those, i'm now unsure about them.
I was looking at something with an enclosure that i could graduate to more advanced materials (for strengths and such) and maybe cut down on noise abit.
Printers are like cars. If you break them, they stop working. But really, all joking aside, you'll want to regularly maintain it by cleaning it up, re-lubricating rods and lead screws, and replacing parts occasionally that wear out like PTFE tubes, nozzles (depending on what you print and what your nozzle is made of), belts, fans, etc.
I disagree in terms of the gantry leveling being a huge expense, there is the sovol 08 which is cheap and can do it and the core one has three motors and it would only take them two additional drivers
The sv08 is what, like $800? Not sure I'd call that cheap but I get what you're saying. Hell, even Bambu uses a single motor in the z.
The core one could do it, but why? Just smack it all the way up or down and let it skip til it's right. Barbaric? Sure, but it works a treat no?
I am almost surprised that no off the shelf enclosed printer has ever offered a screen door accessory, So people who might have a reason to want the door closed for other reasons. could still have a closed door but not lose the air flow for PLA.
I figure, without a draft, that a screen door would insulate better than you'd think.
Are there any screen door mods? I have seen any but I also haven't looked
@@3DMusketeers I have never seen a mod of this idea either. I tend to think of stuff like this while bored at work or in the shower.
And Prusa has a better idea anyway in their upcoming CoreONE. some intake slats and a temperature controlled fan.
Same bored brain is why the chamber lights on my 2.4 turn on when I open the Clicky-Clacky door. A mod to a mod if you will. The door mod is called a fridge door and so I thought "the lights should turn on when its opened like a fridge". A microswitch and toggle switch later and now they do and I can turn them on when the door is closed without involving Klipper. The door switch mod is purely electrical.
`I am having an issue with my K2 and orca. The plate size in orca with crealitys given profile is an actual 310 mm, and set up at 350 mm. My bed is 370 mm, and there is clearance for 365 mm all around. When I modify the profile and input 365 x 365 x 350 for height, -5 or 10 for x and y it gives me an out of range error. I am stuck using creality print because there I can at least print something 348 mm long or tall. Help?
That is beaches configuration on you printer is smaller and or your you didn't Chang the configuration correctly, when are you geting the auto of range error,(in the slicer or on the printer)
@@CasGRos I followed the creality page instructions and downloaded the profile from them, since they make the printer. I get the error on the printer screen, not the slicer. 310 mm is a bummer when my bed is 370 and my space is 350 by design. The printer connects well, ports are working. Have to say, the profile belongs to a k1 max, and creality has us changing the name to K2.
@@Foreign_Tropical
Ok so the error is on the printer, that means that the configuration on the printer limits the base so when you edits the prihnte aria in the slicer the printer detect it, what exactly is the error
The exact error is " x coordinates out range" I will wait until they release something that works better. Creality slicer works very nice.
I have a 3d printer and my friend has a 3d printer his printer wasnt extruding turns out the filament was tangle.
tell your friend to not knot their filament and make sure it is secured to the spool or uses a clip like K2 Kevin's clip!
@@3DMusketeers yeah I told him that but is a bit of an idiot
New printer here. READ EVERYTHING! I didn't and I messed up my 0.2 mm nozzle. I ran metal filament through it. It fused and no amount of cold pulls or heating and poking saved it.
Well a 0.2mm nozzle and metal filament are asking for problems. Anything filled needs 0.4mm minimum with 0.6mm recommended and minimally hardened steel.
I'm seeing a number of new users with old school enders and having nothing but problems. I'm like......dammit I keep telling people not to buy these things.
mythbusters episde......oh wait there is a new 3d musketeer video. PAUSE, new tab. lol
wooooooo
I uchely diseasemble my extruder when I get a clogged nozzle and burn out the crap
Sompow I got a clog all the way up to the end of the cold end, mmmm
Ah yes the hotend burn one of the many hazing tactics used by the industry to remind you of #2 fun, the fun that sucks in the moment but you recount fondly especially when it happens to others ;)
Cold end clogs are surprisingly common especially for filament that expands like silks.
@@3DMusketeers
No this whas the last of a 5kg role of gliter "pla" that i got from a person that ran a printfarm. To put in to context how old it was i got the new prusa mk3 thu same day.
The prusa is still wurking finwhit no maintenes but the fillament is trach but i only use it fore prototypes.
Am finely upgrading to a francenstine core xy printer that can reach 100c in the camber built and when the kinematics is mounted on a 10mm bilit of steel cut on the UNIs CNC(yes it was expensive) and using 10k in control electronic I got fore fre from a industrial distributer.
And no it who's not fun and don't remember it as being fun