Could Electric Cars Have A Manual Transmission?
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- Опубліковано 13 жов 2024
- Will Future Electric Cars Use A Manual Transmission?
Electric Cars Only Have 1 Gear? - • Why Do Electric Cars O...
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This is the second video of a five part series where I’ve partnered with Formula E to answer questions about electric vehicles, and this topic was actually inspired by Renault’s season 2 Formula E car, which uses a 2-speed gearbox matched with a single transversely mounted electric motor. What’s super clever about their set up, is that they have incorporated a manual gear stick, using cables and rods to switch between the two gears, rather than the pneumatic paddle shifters which other teams were using. Renaults solution is simpler, and also lighter, as it doesn’t require onboard pumps or air-tanks for gear shifts. But could this be taken a step further, and incorporate a clutch as well for street cars? I spent some time chatting with the current Formula E champion, Lucas Di Grassi, who spends his free time engineering electric bikes, about this idea.
We have two questions to answer:
1. Is it possible?
2. Is it logical?
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"It's really for joy rather than for a logical reason..."
It's logical to want to experience joy, therefore, manual transmissions are logical.
Bruce Schneider Brilliant, I say!
Also if you drive a manual its harder to steal since only 4% of Americans know how to dive a manual
yea because the whole world is american right?
MyDryPancakes Your name suggests that you're English, your comment suggests that you're trolling. Let's focus on the point; driving manual transmissions are more fun than autos
both your assumptions are wrong, i dont see why you think im trolling. my reaction was for Generic youtube profile guy, since he was the last to comment.
Manual transmission is becoming a theft deterrent feature. Just imagine the look on the face of a carjacker in a 3-pedal car.
catsspat not in the rest of world
Well for Americans, if you drive like a 2003 WRX Sti with a manual tranny then the average carjacker in these year might not know how to drive stick. And it gets increasing small over the years!
Manuals for life!
Lawsuits out by carjackers against the owner of the car for having a car too complex to steal, resulting in their own injury.
Hahahaha! Very good. And true in the USA.
I'm not sure if you're serious but I could see that happening.
EV's having manuals are the only way I will accept them into my life.
More mechanical part and more weight.
Why man, Why?
@@pabanoid it's more enjoyable and traditional
@@pabanoid I hate autos, they are soooooo boring for me lmao
@@pabanoid It has more cool mechanical parts and has more weight to it.
That is why.
It's not even an automatic it just a nature of electric motor.
1. High starting torque
2. RPM can control very precisely by controlling the frequency of injected AC current.
Manual transmission offers 2 additional control features over 1 speed. Slip and range are very important for control.
electric can do that aswell :d
One electric motor will not have the right power curve for both low and high end power. Geared transmissions will.
I think in the future, I think that the manual transmission will become what the mechanical keyboard is to PC enthusiasts, yes it's outdated but you cannot replace it's feel
what do you mean? the 90s mech keyboard? because I'm using a mech keyboard right now
Mechanical keyboards are not outdated. A quailty mech keyboard will tend to last significantly longer than the modern non-mech keybaords. Sure, the curcuits themselves might out last a mech when the spings and whatnot finally rbeak down; but the super thin chiclet keys on non-mech keybaords wear down super fast for folks that tend to do a ton of typing. I for one have had sever of the paper-thing chiclet style keyboards wear down super fast over time and I have a single mechanical keyboard (on a 2nd machine), complete w/ clickety clacking noises that has outlasted all of my thin keyboards and still take a regular beating without stopping. DONT even get me started on "touch" keyboards like the iPad Smart/Magic keyboards.
Some people argue that the manual transmission is already outdated and obsolete. They're probably right, but manuals significantly enhance the driving experience so even if they're right from a technological standpoint, that's not the whole picture.
Manuals can't be outdated
Dude, I am sure that we still use mechanical keyboards.
Manual transmissions aren't completely illogical yet. They're still cheaper and more reliable than other types, not to mention you can push start if your battery or starter is bad.
Duke Of Prunes I think he's talking about when the video mentioned that manual trans are already not completely logical for ICEs and not about electric engines
No, they don't. I'm talking about internal combustion vehicles, I agree with Engineering Explained there is no real advantage that I can think of for a manual transmission electric vehicle.
Honda manual hybrids are great. They have but don't use a starter motor (unless something is wrong with the IMA system), they have but barely use a regular 12v car battery, and you can push start them if you need to.
ah, but does it still run? i mean, i've seen people throw those solar panel battery maintainers on their dash and drive during the day when their alternators die.
For longer mileage...same as in ICE vehicles, you coast on a higher gear and lower rpm on the motor to save fuel (electrons in the BEV case) and so address the biggest complaint from all the petrolheads against BEV´s which is range. It would also most likely be possible to fit future BEV´s with smaller motors with less power. I am huge Tesla fan, but not all need to do 0-60 in less than 3-4 s. So it would make sense to build something a bit more boring but that can travel further on the same charge.
Scroll down for an internet mechanic conference
So many experts, so many staunch purists.
368 likes. hearted. one response till me now 2
International internet mechanic conference :)
Greetings from Poland!
Get this comment pinned. NOW.
Best comment so far
The only thing you didn't explain is whether or not this transmission would be energy efficient. Would you be saving electricity by allowing the motor to move at a slower RPM while the car maintains a fast speed?
Depends on the efficiency curve of the electric motor, but based on my discussions with Formula E, it's often not worth the trade-off of the efficiency loss and weight gained from a transmission.
Engineering Explained So, road cars might have a strong benefit from having a 2 speed transmission to get maximum efficiency at both city driving (stopped - sub 40mph) and to run at the peak of the efficiency curve at highway speed ~75 mph. I do recall Tesla experimenting with the roadster to have a 2 speed to get good off the line performance and efficient highway driving, but the sample transmissions were poorly constructed.
Latest design for electric cars is that they are almost residing next to wheel for efficiency. I still don't see in wheel design in productions yet. I think they are coming, so in that case transmission will make no sense. I think they are not doing it to keep it off ground in case of traversing higher water level and to keep wheels lighter.
that's what i was thinking too in the last few episodes...
actually yes, electric motors, particularly AC induction motors (like you see on Tesla cars) start to lose efficiency at the high end of their rev-range, due to the way the motor works the rotor gradually loses sync with the stator that propels it, resulting in some forces that are of inappropriate direction to take full advantage of the provided force at that state of rotation or in even going against the rotation of the motor.
Only problem is, electric motors are beneficial in that they don't require a transmission to be functional in a car. so there is little incentive to install one, considering the weight and cost savings, as well as the lack of a need to shift
This is the saddest thing about electrification of cars. I love that we'll finally be getting away from fossil fuels but I'll miss the joy of driving a stick.
the joy of driving period.
Don't worry. In the future you will be able to go to the "car park" and rent a car to take around the track.
Soon, not just can you forget about manual gears, you can forget about manual driving all together. 😋
In a couple decades you may not Drive or even Own a car.
*teleportation*
Drive this stick
For the "DRIVER" manual transmissions are more enjoyable to drive. It's more challenging and improves multi tasking. When your mind is stimulated like this it makes you aware of more things happening around you and less complacent.... which makes you a better driver. I would hate to live in a world without this. Everything is going automatic because people are lazy and the licensing system is so easy now that more and more people do not know how to drive as safely as they should. And people should be introduced to driving at a younger age. Experience and knowledge is key.
RJ Costain look at us Americans with our 16 year olds having licenses. I love it. I learned in a 5-Speed Manual, and now drive a Mini Cooper 6speed. A manual transmission just makes the work go round. It really makes me sad watching my peers dull with time after a lack luster driving experience. A manual can make man, and a man can make a manual.
@@drivelinedynamics1723 amateurs, in New Zealand we start driving at 15 and can drive tractors on main roads at 13 :p
I would agree that improves multitasking for like first month of driving until you form a muscle memory. After that it's all automatic shifting that you don't even have to think about. I used to have automatic as my personal car and shift for work. I would never think about shifting lol. It's just becomes muscle memory. You would only think about shifting if you are about to drink your coffee and you need to start moving from the red light or something. Other than that your brain does it without even thinking.
But you don't know how EV work, It's not even automatic it just a nature of electric motor.
Even my father teach me manual 1st for both car and motorcycle before introduce me to automatic transmission.
The reason is simply to discipline me about driving/ riding, to be more aware and specific about my current speed and not just simply accelerate the vehicle from slow to fast.
Another complex topic that is systematically and logical discussed in a linear manner. Thank you for your efforts.
Happy to hear it, thanks!
The electric van I was driving was a conversion and it had its old gearbox in there, without the clutch. Around town you would stick it into 3rd and it gave great acceleration and responsiveness from zero. But on the motorway it did need a higher gearing for best effect; so one would stick it into fourth or fifth. A lack of clutch was no real problem.
Would be nice to chat up with you
i get how clutch is not needed to move a car from idle but how does it change gears on the move?
As someone who builds and rides electric bikes on a daily basis I have to point out some flaws in EE's video...
First, Formula E cars don't stop often like a production car would at traffic lights. Formula E cars top out at 2000 lbs, are made completely out of carbon fiber, and only seat 1 person. Electric production cars like Tesla weigh over 4000 lbs.
Direct drive electric vehicles compensate for lack of gear reduction and torque multiplication by using TONS of power. Formula E cars top out at 200 KW. The problem with this in a production vehicle is that parts that can stand up to that amount of torque reliably for long periods of time will be very expensive. You can achieve the same exact performance output at half the power with a 1st gear that is 50% under drive, but you have half the top speed.
A manual transmission would allow a lower power motor to accelerate faster at much lower speeds while consuming significantly less power over all. This is very important as a production car would need to be able to drive further then the 10 laps around a race track and battery tech is still lacking in the energy density department. Also note that most of the Formula E cars still use a 5/3/2 speed trans because it allows them to accelerate out of turns or jams faster because of this reason.
The amperage required to provide 200 KW produces a TON of heat because of the high amperage leading to needing complex cooling setups and very expensive heavy gauge wiring and connectors.
There are 2 speed transmission setups that allow for under drive and direct drive that have no parasitic loss in direct drive. One type uses two 'one way' clutches to either spin a planetary gear or couple direct drive. These take advantage of the fact that an electric motor can provide full power no matter which direction it spins, but, they can't provide a way to back up. The second would simply use a clutch system to provide the coupling thus allowing you to retain reverse. The efficiency gained with an under drive is greater than the parasitic loss.
Also, direct drive setups would perform worse in any environment with hills compared to a multi geared drive setup.
Do note that there are also several different types of AC motors. Induction motors can handle higher amounts of power but are not as efficient as a PMAC (BLDC) motor as a PMAC doesn't have to create the magnetic field in the rotor as permanent magnets provide a very strong field thus requiring less over all power. The only disadvantage of a PMAC is the neodymium magnets do not tolerate high temperatures that lead to demagnetization.
PMAC motors are most efficient at 80% unloaded speed. So, on a production car, if you are cruising at 40 mph, having a gear that allows you to keep the motor close to peak efficiency will give you significantly more range not only because it is at the most efficient RPM, but, because having that torque multiplication means the motor does not have to work as hard, thus consuming even less energy.
You can also get a 2 speed AC motor of both types without any gear box by Delta/Wye switching. 6 relays are a lot lighter than a transmission.
There is plenty of information on the above available on ebike forums.
MasterQuack14
Incidentally, the original Tesla Roadster prototypes had 2 speed transmissions that enabled faster acceleration and a 210kph instead of the 190kph top speed of the production model. IIRC the reason they went single speed was because they could not stop drivetrain components from breaking.
People often forget that regardless of how good it's torque and power curves that still have optimal spots and that a single speed set-up will always be a compromise between acceleration/efficiency/top-speed. I would also would like to see electric vehicles with CVTs and better development of the CVT as a whole as some concepts and workarounds address the torque and launch issues. The fact that you can get away without a multi-speed transmission doesn't mean it's the best solution for everything.
Sten And you forget that the average people hate to do maintenance on their cars. Refilling oil and replacing brake pads already is just too much to ask.
MasterQuack14 That's incorrect, it requires the same amount of force to accelerate at the same rate no matter what gear you're in
An Electric car is the last place youre going to find a CVT, they just can"t handle the torque
I LOVE, L O V E, LOVE my manual transmission......I don't care if it's practical or logical, or whatever.
To bad you cant stall it on a motor😫😔
Exactly why should technology advance if it makes the world less fun
@@optionalcoast7478 a lot of grey areas there but I agree very much. the thing about technology advancement is that, it is being done to make things 'easier'. people are only saying that EVs are more fun to use, maybe because they dont know how to drive a manual transmission..
No one came here for logic, we came here to find out was is possible, Could have saved us all 5 mins and just said, "Yes" 😒🤣
But EV at 70 MPH consumes more power than at 60 MPH. It matters for long trip, time and range .
I will miss manuals....
pSyk mercia will always make manuals or at least dodge will and there is no shame in buying a used car. In my lifetime manuals will never be dead so im happy
Greenespirit how old are u?
zelo533 16
zelo533 I feel like that before im dead there will always still be a rare but manual option available
Do worry amigo we can always have stick shifter connected to voltage controllers to give you an imaginary feeling of gear change in ev's, heck we'll even throw in fake recorded sound and led lights to add to the spirit
Soon, Automatic 4-speed transmission
Dual clutch 7-speed transmission
Over and over
Finally, Vtec electric
Bryan Wong vtec electric? That doesn't make sense. Electric motors don't have valves.
Myasa Man you don't know what happens tomorrow. Turbo electric ? Using Magnus effect ,regenerative flywheels?
Current Boost.
After a certain RPM, throttle application, the electric motor gets 1.5x the current giving more power
Bryan Wong ricer ev
Giving an electric motor multiple gears is actually kind of analogous to vtec - at high (for electric motor) rpm the motor's ability to deliver power starts dropping off.
Of course I also have to wonder if changing the number of phases that an electric motor has makes any sense when it comes to getting it to operate over an even wider rpm range.
Something I've mentioned many times on EV channels (never with a good reaction) is that Electric vehicles have the ability to simulate gear ratios and engine characteristics like a real world driving sim in software. Coupled with decent suspension customisation you could have your EV perform like any car you want (considering its powerful enough of course)
I'm actually down for this. And have them sound realistically too. I would love it if my EV sounded and felt like my favorite car!
Yeah, for enthusiasts it'd be a nice option. I really like that the Brammo Empulse (now owned by victory) retained a 6 speed transmission while being a full electric vehicle. Pretty damn nifty.
Note for Johnboy: First Honda Insight and electric accord was available as a manual
I was really thinking about this for the longest time
#standardforlife
Alvin Ameyaw +1
Alvin Ameyaw they got to keep it around
*so you didnt think to go and find out... just hope someone else does the leg work for you? typical ICE car owner... EVs are the future.*
doktorbimmer get off your high horse, that was the worst generalization I've ever heard. I myself didn't look it up because I don't want to know. I fall asleep driving automatics because it's incredibly easy and boring.
doktorbimmer
EV is not the future, it is the intermediate.
Batteries need to have a massive leap forward in order for us to replace all personal vehicles with electric/hybrids. Even then, it's still burning gas, or the vehicle is still being made with extensive energy input.
Been thinking about this and it’s application to motorcycles specifically. There are many handling situations where having a clutch on a motorcycle is very handy. The current electric models all fail in that regard.
Manual is Life
thesniperofcs I drive manual and I'm damn proud
in europe its very rare to find an automatic car. in my life ive only seen like 4 different kinds of automatic cars IRL.
Feels like you're forgetting that electric motors have efficiency curves too. Just as it's important to look at BSFC you should look at every electric motor efficiency curve. There is a reason still to use a gearbox with an electric motor. Look no further than servo systems. You want low rotating inertia and the materials you make gears from are lighter than the materials you make stators and rotors. Electric motors, when given enough design time, should be geared down for maximum performance. Thermal loads can be an issue so it is easier to design a large motor, no gears, if only to absorb the thermal stress without fancy cooling solutions. Duty cycles are hard for some to visualize. In the IC engine world you could play tricks by changing the AFR and/or reducing ignition timing. It's not so easy with an electric motor.
Gearboxes were designed to keep an engine within its more efficient range (efficiency curve), so being electrical or combustion, the need for a gearbox is the same. Also electrical motors could be smaller using a gearbox. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
As a German I laughed at the comment about normal street cars maybe only accelerating up to 100mph
Himencrash you've got the autobahn XD
Try hitting 100 mph on the 101 in Los Angeles at any hour. Not going to happen. lol You're lucky if you hit 70 mph
I did a road trip last year. Traffic in LA is hell haha
Well, my ICE car could not reach 160 km/h. I mean, it could, but I would need very long flat road.
As for electric cars, air drag is proportional to cube of speed, so double the speed, drag goes up 8 times. That is why even 20 something HP Trabant can go 100, but you need over 120hp to go over 200. So for electric, driving fast reduces range drasticaly.
Tesla 100D going 120 might have range of 400km, but driving 250 could maybe can go 150km.
160 for normal car is fast enough.
roads in my state in Australia don't let you go higher than 60mph (100km/h)
ICE cars that were converted into EVs often use the original manual gearbox the car came with, so it is doable. My only doubt is whether it would be a more economical option (in terms of fuel economy) than a now normal single speed EV.
Yeah a lot of the old backyard EV conversions used the stock manual trans... I think that was often just a matter of convenience, but most of those motors were also realllly weak. The added torque multiplication from the transmission probably did help somewhat.
It's less efficient, so no. Also, it's starts to become a real mechanical problem with very high instant torque motors, a real point of failure as it's now experiencing much more stress and will fatigue quicker. I worked for a company that did that, but with powerful motors, and it broke stuff constantly.
The sad truth is that most car manufacturers are too ignorant to think about "driving joy"
*most people are too ignorant to think about "driving joy"
It's called supply and demand. If it isn't demanded by consumers it isn't going to be supplied by manufacturers
anyways, common types doesn't even care or bothered about that "joy"... all they care is reaching from pt A to B in an efficient eco-friendly manner full of convenience... and that's the reason why majority prefers automatic... sad but true... so as for us the "tiny-bits-of-minority" let's enjoy the sticks before it's gone forever sooner in the future...
Yeah, really. Most cars these days seem really soulless, if they are going to be boring cars they might as well be electric anyways and just be better cars from a technical standpoint.
I know this comment is ancient, but people definitely think about the enjoyability of driving, otherwise they wouldn't nerf CVT like they do.
You spoke briefly about "a motor on each corner" or motors on the wheels. Is that possible? How do they perform the necessary differential action? Your videos are perfect! Packed with information, to the point, no boring talking about yourself, no regressions, no over explaining like we are idiots.
With gearbox, eletric vehicles can be more useble on highway
But you have to calculate the new effieciency with one more device
What? Top speed for a Model S is 155 and that's because it's governed. As stated in this video already: you're just adding unnecessary weight
Fun fact (unless you already know)the original telsa roaster also had a two speed gear box
Ford just made the Mustang Lithium with manual transmission. It's a dream come true.
No they didn't, that was a show car made by a 3rd party. Ford has absolutely no intent to sell such a thing.
*starts car in 6th gear*
Me: No problem
I can see a transmission (manual or automatic) being used in many scenarios where it would be beneficial. Coming from a background of rc cars I understand the importance of torque and how it can really help in off-road situations. The bolinger B1 for example could use a lower gear for slower speed off-roading where getting the motor rpms up can help with control and torque purposes or in larger trucks. If you don't understand what I mean and you ever have an opportunity to drive an 2 speed rc car I'd highly recommend it, you really understand what a 2 speed will do for an electric motor.
Great explanation of what is needed to do a manual in a EV, thanks, always feel like I learned something after viewing your vids.
Some DIY electric cars have gears. Search for the electric VW Beatle.
*Beetle
if only had the money and shop
Having a simple gear reducer would be better, but in the case of the car already having a transmission, it's cheaper and easier to just use it. I worked for a company that did that, while it saved money, it was ultimately not worth it due to the much higher torque and stresses causing issues/breaking stuff.
If you're going to convert a petrol powered car to electric. attaching the electric motor to the original transmission is just an easy way of doing it. While you do end up with a range of gear ratios in your electric car, Its a bit pointless. Because of the torque of the electric motor you can just let it in top gear the whole time.
@@conortobin6180 I think most people know that. So, we're not talking about efficiency here. This is about the joy of driving, and quite a few people feel like they are in more control of a manual car.
See, I can understand the whole concept of a manual transmission (as we know it today) being an inefficient system to be put into an electric car, but I'm also wondering if there would be the possibility of simulating a manual transmission, in the sense that the clutch is merely a pedal that acts more like a gateway button to changing gears versus having a whole transmission and clutch system dedicated to it. I know nowadays some electric cars simulate engine noise inside with speakers, so I do wonder if a simulated manual could come to fruition in the same way. And I am completely aware of the fact that the whole paddle shifting thing or flick shifters are deemed as simulated manuals, but it's just not the same as moving that stick between the gates and having that very specific control over the car.
It is definitely possible. Having a fake stick, a fake clutch, a fake rev meter (and probably a real one), and some speakers should be able to simulate a manual transmission on an ICE (and probably you will be able to choose if it is an I4, V6, V8, and so on and probably adjustable turbo lag as you may wish at any time). As long as you don't go too fast the simulation should be good. However, such the implementation will make you go a lot slower than the same car without all these things.
Well slower is the life of a manual stick shift car compared to its dual clutch counterparts, but it's all about that experience. I mean, that is what I fear most with these newer vehicles becoming more and more automated, is that loss of the feeling of complete control and immersion.
So you mean a clutch pedal is still provided, while the clutch plates are replaced by electromagnetic components (utilizing electromagnetic induction principle) which are used to engage-disengage to the output shaft ? I can only imagine but don't know how to. :)
"some electric cars simulate engine noise inside with speakers"
what a joke lol
If an electric car comes with a full manual transmission I will buy it. I refuse to get an automatic (in any vehicle).
Same
Teslas are singlespeed
Same
redbeam_ The clutch pedal is half the fun of driving a manual, without that, you might as well buy an automatic with a "manual" mode.
I think that Koniegsegg came with a good idea. It uses a complex CNC design into a torque converter to multiply torque. The thing is that normal torque converter could only multiply in specific situations (it's required a certain speed so that oil inside can turn itself into tubrine cams and do the job) and mostly because it did not go far in terms of expanding torque. For IC engines is OK because automatic gearbox normally requires more energy to function compared to a manual and the tech to design this part just went to deminish that difference and provide efficiency.
But Koenigsegg made a low inertia torque converter that could double the torque in it's peak capacity. I think like a Tesla Model S, a car that was used to compare with Lambo's and Ferrari's in terms to show that eletric cars could be fast this could probably be the solution to outrun IC engines in any terms. Nowadays 0-62 mph (0-100 km/h) is an easy task for eletric cars. But as soon as it goes for medium and high speeds they lose to ICE super sport cars. Using a torque converter after 60 mph or 80 mph this scenario could change. And for eletric vehicles it could also provide more mileage.
The Koenigsegg torque converter is used in his hybrid car wich has one gear only (equivalent to a 7th speed gear) and the job to move the car from full stop is done mostly by the torque converter.
We don't use manual transmissions just because they give you more joy. They are more reliable, they can provide instant torque (rev the engine and then let clutch quickly), they can take more power and they are perfect for braking the tires loose at drifting (aka clutch kick)
Imagine shifting gears with that instant torque. Clutch kick into a corner, all that wheel speed while understeering. I think im wiling to sacrifice the drawbacks.
Everyone's saying that electric motors are silent and there's no point in changing gears. Are you guys deaf? There's an increasingly high pitch whine from electric motors!
Oscar Lee rimac concept one. Don't believe everything from forza horizon 3's tesla
If I recall correctly, a lot of that noise was engineered back into the electric cars to give pedestrians an audio clue that the cars were around.
*drive an EV and you can clearly hear it.... bet you think the world is a ball too lol, you need to do some research son.*
Oscar Lee compared to a blown straight piped motor there's no contest
Glad to see you somewhere other than that top gear review on the Rx8
lets not forget one of the main reasons to have multiple gears on an ICE engine is to keep the RPMS low when you dont need the torque and maintain efficiency for better MPG. Electric motors are more efficient at higher RPMs so they dont need to be kept in lower rpms to maintain efficiency..
low rpm gives a lot of you torque but is inefficient
jerseyforlife how a car without tranny can go 150 200 mph . also wouldn't it be nice going 60 mph with low rpm.low rpm=more economy,less noise.
are you talking about an electric car?
Electric motor can spin up to 20k. Compare that to a mere 6k typical ICE can.
So, I have a question. I've been watching this channel for quite some time and I must say that is very informative and one can learn very interesting stuff about mainly how these things work. I haven't seen all the episodes and I was wondering - is there anything about how dual clutch works? I would realy love to learn more about it.
Many years ago, (in the 1960's) my Dad had a local sawmiller come to our farm, to cut rings from several trees that had fallen on our farm
He arrived driving what can only be called a MYRICAL (of co-built engineering antics) - in that it could be driven VERY FAST using two reverse gears?
It had of course, two gearboxes, one that had it's clutch still connected, and after whichever gear was selected - was then immediately connected to the clutch input of the second gearbox. (the output of the 1st was mounted directly to the other's input shaft).
Selecting 4th gear in the front gearbox, and NEUTRAL in the 2nd, he could then operate the large (circular) sawblade, amidship of the old "full chassis" vehicle, such that by simply moving the saw-bed IN & OUT, it tightened or loosened the drive belt from the lay shaft between the gearboxes, to drive the saw itself, cutting logs on the saw bed.
To drive the vehicle on the road, he simply used the 1st gearbox in 4th, and the rear box as normal - for road speeds.
He could also select reverse in BOTH gearboxes, to get a slightly faster top gear (in a forwards motion) that couldn't power the car up any hill.
He could though, put the 1st gearbox in any lower gear, and also put the 2nd gearbox in a similar lower gear - to crawl slowly over muddy farm paddocks, as if he was in a 2wd tractor.
Using 1st in both gearboxes, meant an ant (well maybe not an ant) could walk faster.
Many people have devised many different uses, for gearboxes over the years, and some people swear they don't need them (crashing the motors into starting in say 3rd and NEVER taking it out of 3rd, means they can roll, but not as the vehicle was made).
Sadly, having an EV designed for city uses, on mainly flat roads, means that sure, THEY can state they don't need gears or clutches, but try using an electric drive in a tractor that is used to draw along say a 6 furrow plough - without gears or a clutch, and soon you will find the electric motor blows it's protective supply fuses and buggah```, you are then totally stuffed, as simply replacing the fuses won't work, as the plough will have become firmly stuck - in that mud, meaning the motor cannot turn to even try and get it unstuck.
Thanks for the topic. Made me think that it would be really cool if you would make a video if is "possible and logical" to control manually a CVT. Lets say the driver would have a lever which can be pushed between two possitions associated with the lowest and highest ratios.
I was really interested in watching this video to hear your ideas on it, I went to a technical education program at Oramge-Ulster CTEC and we actually had a converted electric vehicle, a 5speed Chevy S10 that we put an electric motor into and utilized the bed as a battery holder, the clutch pedal had no use in the design and whenever it was driven to events we only ever used one gear. The truck was honestly a rocket, the teachers wound up putting 285mm tires on it because the instant torque combined with a super low first gear made it a smoke machine on tthe stock tires
The big problem of eletric motors is the high consumption at high rpm, a good CVT gearbox is not a good solution???
I have never heard CVT and reliable in the same sentence, so thats probably why. But yeh logically thats what makes sense to me too.
Well in reality most people don't drive at 150mph for the majority of their use, it's more like 50-70 and in that range you are way better off not having extra weight of a transmission.
ICE have a very small power and efficiency RPM band, electric motors on the other hand have a huge one.
Rodrigo C. Actually electric motors are very efficient even at high rpm. The reason for a multi speed gearbox with an electric motor if you need both very high starting torque AND high top speed. Electric motors have a maximum torque limit, maximum power and maximum revs limit. From 0 rpm up to a point maximum torque is applied. Power increases since P=revs x torque. When you reach maximum power the torque starts to drop off so it maintains constant power as you increase revs up to the rev limit. The rev limit can be either due to mechanical limits( bearings can't handle the speed) or electrical limits(batteries cannot provide enough power to increase speed)
Electric locomotives for instance are geared low if they pull freight trains - more pulling force at the expense of speed or if a passenger train is pulled then they are geared taller for less pulling force but higher speed. They both use the same motors.
Efficiency simply isn't a concern because the electric motor is highly efficient at all operating speed with minimal variation as the load or speed change. Thus no need to bother with a multi speed gearbox.
Electric motors do not have high consumption at high RPM. They have high consumption at high load.
@Petar Miletic , I think you are confused about trains. They are not running off of batteries like cars and the AC motors are running as traction motors. Electric trains have diesel engines that provide the power and are tuned to a very efficient and narrow rpm range. They use traction motors as the phase angle can be controlled at a constant power output thus acting like a CVT. They do not 'change gears' or even have any gears at all.
i think 2 speed manual can be used on electric mini trucks. Lower gear for heavy loads and hauling stuff and higher gear for speed and saving power.
Because of the increased weight of a truck, a multi-speed transmission could make more sense on a truck than on a car.
How does elektrik locomotif work?
I'm gonna be die hard 90's Honda's for life thanks, you can keep your amps and volts.
We did electric + 6 speed sequential gearbox. You don't actually need clutch, as you can speed up or decelerate the motor so quick, that it can do it all in a gap between gears. You can sync the motor to precisely match required RPM before to switch in to gear.
One of the greatest advantages of the ability to design the conversion stage from electricity to whatever force you wanted it end up with as your output in a single clean motor. Every pair if gears you add to a system is a meaningful friction/windage drag loss, and at light loads it's a very meaningful oil pumping penalty to have gear teeth and differential dragging through an oil bath. Every stage of power downstream of your motor is just added losses and failure modes. The same added mass and cost to the vehicle applied towards increasing the motors radius vs gearing stages yields a higher efficiency and higher continous power solution with far fewer moving parts and failure modes.
Rich Rebuild had already converted a rat rod into electric with a MANUAL TRANSMISSION.
what is the purpose of having a transmission on an electric car since you can control the speed and torque much better by manipulating the frequency applyed to the motor?
Leonel Braga lower gear= more wheel torque at lower speeds
low frequency = no gears and more torque too.
Getting a more torque/power at low speed out of a small motor. But most of the time the efficiency-loss is not worth it.
A system with an electric motor designed for high torque by high pole count would be more efficient with a second gear if it would mean that it would not have to go very far into field weakening at highway speeds. This applies more to vehicles that require really high torque and also high vehicle speeds, i.e. performance cars, buses, trucks etc.
whouldent a gearbox whit lets say 2gears give the posablity to get in to a higer gear on the higway and get more speed out of less engine usage? or does electric motors not work like that?
Who's here after Ford announced a manual electric Mustang?
I was thinking about this too actually.
For people who actually like driving but want to go electric.
They could also simulate engine sounds through the speakers, like an electronic synth you can have different settings, Corvette, Lamborghini, Focus RS, or whatever you like. It should vary depending on your 'RPM' like it would in a traditional car as well. Or you can just turn it off and enjoy the silence, or music. Use my idea send me money and a the vehicle please! :)
I think for the most having more than one gear ratio could be useful on electric off-roaders for enduring harsh conditions like climbing steep slopes
"idles at 900 RPM"...freaking s2k owners xD
most 4 cylinders idle around 800-900rpm anyway
If applied correctly, couldn't you use an automatic clutch with one singular gear with lots of teeth on its output, increasing the top wheel RPM speed? I mean, it would increase efficiency especially in things like drag racing, top speed and starting and stopping. If you just had an electric motor straight to a gear with lots of teeth on its output, the electric motor probably wouldn't have enough torque in the lower RPM so this is where a clutch would be necessary.
Electric motors have characteristics very different from internal combustion engines.
An electric motor can develop its maximum torque at zero speed so there is no reason whatever to have a clutch for starting out. Also, an electric motor can, for limited intervals, develop several times its continuously rated power with no damage. In cases where the electric motor must be as light as possible, there would be an advantage to having a multi-speed transmission. However, in general, the advantages of having a multi-speed transmission would be offset by the additional complication.
Imagine an electric car w a 5 speed and straight cut gears lol
Lol super whining.
Dont they already use that for purpose built electric motorsports cars?
@@RyuzoSan19 wasn't aware, which ones?
@@18837ven Not too sure, but I am hearing some familiar whining sounds on a 1000+ hp Mustang Mach E drift car.
My thoughts about having a 2 speed was to have a highway gear. I wondered if you'd get better range?
It would make sense for some applications where you want to get higher gear ratio for more torque like trucks or construction vehicles. You can tow stuff in low gear and have direct drive for running without load and save charge.
I'm interested in what the power to weight ratio for an electric motor is compared to a combustion engine.
And what about the price for same performance and type : is an electric car more expensive ?
1kw/kg ice to 3-8kw/kg electric. Batterys are heavy.
The batteries for an electric car is the expensive part, electric motors are cheaper than combustion motors.
Anthony Much better
Yeah but couldn't a gearbox fix the "electric cars have worst top speeds" problem?
Ever hear of overdrive? You can gear it so the wheels spin faster than the motor.
I believe it can be designed as higher than 1:1. It is at most 1:1 for now ,because that is all combustion engine need. As far as I know, some CVTs can implement higher ratio than 1:1.
Koeingsegg troque converter that is used in his hybrid hyper car. It doubles the torque in certain situations. The car itself has only one gear (7th speed gear). From full stop until road speed limit the TC multiplies the torque so the wheel can accelerate very fast until it gets to a 7th speed gear ratio.
I think we could think something similar to this in eletric cars and have supercruising speeds. It'll solve the problem with heavy batteries and eletric car mileage. If some effort put in this tech design gave us any potential benefits we could even think of a small battery pack, weight reduction, better top speeds, etc.
+Carl Nesensohn
Overdrive was designed for better fuel economy. It has no benefit on an electric car. The electric motor is not so confined to a narrow RPM range into which it can deliver its peak power. Overdrive is not so much to make a car go faster, but rather to slow the speed of the ICE (internal combustion engine) on mostly-flat freeway driving, so as to burn less fuel. With horribly-outdated ICE technology, most every revolution of the engine is going to burn a certain amount of fuel. But I have heard that only 15 horsepower is needed in order to drive at freeway speeds. So why do cars have to have such big engines and so much power for? So that they can easily climb hills, and not scare the driver, having little or no acceleration power to be able to merge onto the freeway or to pass another vehicle, lagging like some giant super-heavy semi-truck 18-wheeler.
Actually, I think I heard that the Tesla electric cars have a small gearbox that is a 9 to 1 ratio, meaning that the electric motor spins 9 times as fast as the drive wheels. There is no need for the wheels to spin faster than the motor, as that would exceed the speeds that most cars ever travel at. There is no need to shift to a lower gear, because the electric motor already has sufficient torque and can easily start from 0 rpm - it does not stall like an ICE. But the gearbox is very simple, just 1 speed gear, very few parts to wear out. Electric motors can be electrically-reversed, so there is no need for a "reverse" gear.
There are basically 2 considerations that limit how fast an electric motor can spin. One is the physical centrifugal force that above a certain speed would tear the armature apart. The other is the available voltage for the motor, as a motor and a generator are much the same thing, depending upon how they are wired. The faster the motor spins, the more opposing voltage it produces, so that the current can no longer flow very much, once it reaches its peak speed. That is why a too-much bogged down electric motor overheats, because the current continues to surge. But electric motors can spin or be designed to spin at very high speeds. And unlike an ICE, there is very little mass within the motor to accelerate, nor are there any gear-shifting delays in the acceleration curve, there is no heavy crankshaft, and so acceleration in an electric car can easily beat muscle cars and sports-cars.
The ideal gear ratio for the electric motor, is based upon 2 factors. One is, what level of performance is expected and can that ratio deliver it. The other, more important in my view, is efficiency. If electric cars can not deliver enough miles on a charge, then they will be hard to sell to many people. Thus, it is very important to conserve energy, so that the battery does not deplete any faster than necessary. That is why EVs are even better aerodynamically designed than ICE vehicles. They have to do whatever they can to boost the range on a charge to a sufficient miles number to impress potential customers. Well until the battery technology further improves.
Electric motors usually have 20000 rpm limit, why would one need to go beyond that rpm ie.. 1:1. And why would you need gears when you can have the same torque at 1rpm and 20000rpm? Habit???
I don't like the new UA-cam look. Good video though.
Yeah, the font is much too large in the comments section
I like the new video front, at least the time bar extends the whole screen to select parts of video better
click your account picture - I think there's an option there to go back to the old UI?
Sounds like you'd like to SHIFT back to the old look...
Does it still feel wierd?
I have not finished the video yet, but of course this makes sense, especially for trucks and heavy things you're trying to get up big hills.
I have built a mid drive electric bike, and use the same 7 speed rear-transmission for the highway, I can shift up to 7, otherwise, I keep in in third or fourth. You notice huge watt-increases up hill, but if you stop it down a few gears the watts drop to manageable levels. Starting in low gears also keeps the amps down as the motor spins up, making the torque feel a lot smoother.
Really liked the interaction with Lucas di Grassi!! :D
All electric cars today have a transmission, including Tesla's. The Tesla has a reduction gearset for each motor. The cost and weight of adding a second gear and a reliable gear changing system has to compared vs it's return in 99% of driving scenarios. Any car designed primarily for high speed running would need tall gearing that would not have good acceleration. Any vehicle that has massive weight changes such as a truck towing a large trailer would need gears to avoid have to carry a too large motor around for when it is not towing. Most cars could perform satisfactorily with only one gear for 99% of their use cases.
Dual motor Tesla's have two one gearboxes, each with a different ratio to match the motor that drives it. The overall efficiency could be increased further by not turning the larger rear motor at relatively low speed and low loads. If a Tesla was designed to run at sustained autobahn speeds the gear ratios would change from the ones used today for 70 mph cruising.
Direct drive A/C induction electric motors are not yet desirable for several reasons. Hub motors are even less desirable, because they would massively increase unsprung weight which negatively affects handling and ride quality.
Electric motor tech is not advancing very fast. The science has long been understood and only small efficiencies can be gained using known science. Improving the battery is the holy grail for car manufacturers.
Currently Tesla, as you mention, uses induction motors. On the other hand, some electric cars and hybrid cars use synchronous motors which are slightly more efficient. Probably, as you say, hub motors may never be used on cars. The biggest problem for electric cars is the batteries. They are big, heavy, provide only a limited range, and have a limited life. Even so, in some cases I think that battery electric vehicles make sense even now.
Frank Eggers we reached nice range and also good reliability. The weight may sound bad but for consumer it's not a problem.
Sprowk, I wonder if you could clarify.
The battery weight may not be a serious problem since it is down very low in the vehicle resulting in a low center of gravity and the vehicle is designed to handle the weight. But the weight of hub motors would be a problem because it would be unsprung weight. Some vehicle manufacturers have gone to considerable length to minimize unsprung weight. Hence, many cars, even ones with rear wheel drive, have independent rear suspensions. Light alloy wheels are also used. That enables the wheels to do a better job of staying in contact with the pavement when the pavement is not smooth without resorting to stiff suspensions which would result in an uncomfortable ride.
As for range, some electric cars already have adequate range for city and suburban driving but not for long trips. Thus, the range is adequate for many people. Either a battery exchange method or ubiquitous fast charge stations would be necessary, with current battery technology, to make EVs practical for long trips. I wonder what effect rapid charging has on battery life; I suspect that it would shorten battery life but I haven't seen any information on that.
Frank Eggers there is taxi driver in Norway driving his tesla which has incredible mileage. Don't know exact number but it shows that at least for him the battery still keeps above 90%. As far as the range goes tesla with charger network is pretty good. At least in my country (I bet you didn't hear of, Slovakia) it would be sufficient for any trip.
Sprowk, Actually I have heard of Slovakia. Decades ago I had a coworker from Czechoslovakia. She told us that the country would break up when Marshall Tito was no longer the dictator because the various groups would not get along with each other. Obviously she was right. Regarding geography, I am much more erudite than most Americans although unfortunately, I speak only English.
Now, returning to the subject. The battery life of an EV would depend on how the car is used. Deep cycling the battery or frequently charging it at a high rate would shorten the battery life, although it could still remain adequate depending on circumstances. It would be better if all EVs could be recharged from the same charger network, for obvious reasons. It is likely that battery technology will continue to improve.
It may be that EVs will replace fuel burning cars because CO2 emissions from cars are a significant percentage of total CO2 emissions which must, on a global basis, be drastically reduced even as demand for energy increases by a factor of probably 3 or more. EVs would help do that, especially if electricity is generated from non-CO2 emitting sources. Or, IC engines could be run on a manufactured fuel, such as ammonia, if it is manufactured in a way that doesn't emit CO2.
Some countries which have enough hydro power available can get by on renewables alone. However, whether people like it or not, most large prosperous countries will have to depend on nuclear power. I suggest a google search on "James Hansen nuclear", and other google searches, for more information. The mass media do not adequately cover the subject and most people access only information which supports what they already believe. At least Slovakia doesn't seem to have the irrational nuclear power fear that is so common elsewhere.
A manual electric car sounds cool in theory but its pretty pointless. ask anyone with a Brammo/Victory Empulse
Ford just did it
1. Manual trans are quicker in certain areas such as a road course, off road, or towing.
2. Yes you still need a trans for a motor because you can lower the RPM of the motor while at a given speed (say 75mph on the highway) which gives you longer range per charge.
3. A manual trans is more efficient than any auto trans (direct drive is not included as it is no trans).
Read an article in a mustang magazine a few years ago. Where some engineering students retrofitted a 75hp motor to what was a 4cyl fox. The car was drivable and kept the factory T5.
I think cvt makes more sense, like on gy6 scooters
cvt can hardly stand a4 cylinder engine no way they are standing something that makes 100% torque from 0 rpm
but it will never give the pleasure of a real car!
Try driving a Chevy VOLT it's got pretty good power. The VW Gulf electric has a nice sporty suspension not quite as powerful as the VOLT But still pretty fun. I haven't tried a Tesla but I'm sure the acceleration in those is fun.
It's a different experience though, it's quiet and smooth generally, it's nice and comfortable, with lots of electronic features which is pretty neat.
It's a different kind of pleasure. I love when our Prius is running in electric mode.
Thank you thank you thank you for hopping on the bandwagon and agreeing that it would be cool to have an enthusiast application for the manual transmission electric vehicle. This is exactly what I want to develop with my engineering degree from Clarkson!
This makes me happy, I’m pretty sure people are going to start swapping electric motors into classics. Sure the cool sounds will leave, how ever, I believe the reliability cost effectiveness and power levels will sky rise. Also, I get it not being logical to do this, more for fun than anything. It’s be cool to see some car companies after the switch is completely done, the the switch I mean has to electric. I predict every car company will start making electric cars exclusively at some point. So gas cars will be antiques and worth a lot as well, but more just for fun.
I can see it being somewhat viable if its a diy project and you don't have a very powerful electric motor at your disposal. It would definitely be an interesting project. It's something I would probably do to a normal bicycle, using the already present gearing mechanism
If there were an option to buy an electric car with 5 speed manual, I would definitely get one! The feel of shifting gears never gets old!
Wheeler Dealers did this with a Maserati Bi-Turbo and Edd mentioned that the car didn't need the clutch to shift gears since electric motors don't stall so you could probably do a direct drive with the gearbox.
Tesla Model 3 has highway range of 200 miles if you cruise at 75 MPH vs 300 Miles if you cruise at 60 MPH. So will gear help? or use different gear ratio?
It would be more helpful to discuss characteristic torque curves for synchronous motors typically use in cars, and their relationship with gearing and automobile dynamics in normal driving conditions. Tesla's first roadster had a 2-speed transmission for a reason! Although a multi-speed transmission is essential for ICE's because of limitations of engine torque, an electric motor-powered vehicle can utilize multiple gear ratios in a different way.
5:12 So very true. I could very possibly see myself doing a retrofit mod on my current car, or a new purchased project car, either way - I very much want to retrofit an EV motor into a standard standard transmission vehicle.
For sepex type motors, the field strength can easily be controlled to to act like a CVT. A strong field will increase torque, but reduce RPMs. As the field is weakened, the RPMs can go much higher, but torque is reduced. Something similar can be done with brushless motors, though it in much more complicated. For a homemade electric motorcycle, a brushed sepex (separately excitable) motor, with a smart PCM type controller that handles both the field and armature currents, would be the most cost effective solution. Regenerative braking could also be incorporated.
Gearboxes were designed to keep an engine within its more efficient range (efficiency curve), so being electrical or combustion, the need for a gearbox is the same. Also electrical motors could be smaller using a gearbox. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
I can still see a transmission being used in production electrics so a single cheaper electric engine can get more torque on high load, even if it's just two gears.
I wonder if a clutch and a normal manual trans would handle the speeds the electric motor spins at ? Also I’d love to hear more noise from a manual ev to make it more engaging
With gearbox you just can save energy! To faster drive you can switch the gigher gear and the elkectric motor has not to need to revolve so fast, waste so much energy and has less friction.
They definitely need an overdrive , to help with economy of battery depletion on highway cruising
Hello ee! Here in italy some people swapped a gasoline engine with an electric one in a fiat panda. It has been emanated a decree which allows selling kits to convert your engine in an electric one. But there is a requirement: the transmission must not be changed. In that case they have an electric fiat panda with 5gear manual transmission (obv there is the clutch). I love your videos keep going!!! (Sry for my bad english)
Interesting vid. I reckon the most important reason why manual transmissions are still so common in the UK is because they are usually the cheapest option. What are the stats over here?....75% manual or something like that? It's a long way off from just being an enthusiast thing.
Can't say I've ever missed having gears in a wee go kart so maybe I wouldn't miss them in a wee electric car either.
Alot of the home built vehicles mount to conventional transmission both auto and manual to alow for the use of generic motors rather than having to buy a more expensive motor designed to run up to the higher rpm also allowing heavier load capacities for example in your electric truck conversions
I love all your clips Jason! Please keep it up!
For those who are into firearms, manual transmission is like a revolver or break-action shotgun.
It may not be as effective as semi-automatic firearms, but working around the mechanics of the firearm when loading the rounds and ejecting the casings is part of the fun.
The torque curve of an electric motor is quite close to the ideal Torque - speed curve after reaching max HP, which is what gear boxes try to approximate in discrete steps. If your motor can spin fast enough without losses and generate enough torque at low speeds, a gearbox would not be necessary for most cases. We had gearboxes because we needed the extra torque in the lower gears and to disengage the engine while stopped.
It might make sense for heavy trucks at startup, and for the off-road vehicles that are used for "crawling" over obstacle and huge rock courses, at extremely low speeds. The electrical current going into the motor is going to be proportional to the load placed on the motor, and this current quickly translates to heat. Too much electric current and an electric motor will either stall (via circuit protection) or something may burn up. Just because it is an electric motor, you can't say it can't stall.
Was watching some other video with a home-brew of a classic car where the gas engine was swapped to electric on the existing powertrain, and the first two gears were nearly unusable because too much torque from the electric. Was good for burn-outs but that was about it. The guy that normally drove the car just pretty much used 3rd and reverse.
Most electrics skip the gear-box completely because it makes them more reliable.
Ive had had in my head the idea of having 6 different power levels that accelerate differently and have different top speeds. You'd use a sequential level to go up and down and somewhat have 6 different levels of acceleration and top speeds.
I had an idea for a hybrid with manual transmission where the electric motor would be used for starting from standstill and creeping through traffic, but once you get up to above say 20, you would shift into 2nd and use the power of the combustion engine. This would provide a r remedy for the least desirable part of driving a manual. The idea included a first gear and could be driven as normal.
The only problem is very few people want manual transmissions.
We someone brings up Electric Cars having transmissions, I am reminded of certain RC cars of my youth, The gravely underrated Parma Mini Mustang being first to mind. It was available withe 2 or 3 speed transmission. This allowed much less powerful motors to propel the car at speeds equal or greater than single speed RCs with more powerful motors. It was pretty quickly outlawed for competition, but still crops up from time to time mostly in trail/Crawler trucks now so the thing can switch between being a crawler and being a dune running truck of sorts.
In a full sized vehicle, a transmission should have a similar application. This allowing the car to be as fast or faster using less power and would be key for and EV to cap say 200mph without completely bottoming out their range or just maximizing range over distance. Obviously this is not an unknown concept.
There's actually one of those cars. Go to the Fully Charged channel, someone put an electric motor in an old Porsche 911, but kept the manual transmission, and it's glorious.
I had a electric remote controlled car with a 2 speed gear box. The low gear was good for accelerating quickly. Hi gear was great for top speed, especially after I doubled the voltage to the motor. A two speed would be ideal for a racing vehicle but not practical for a daily driver. The extra gearing just adds to friction losses. 1 motor per wheel direct drive would be ideal to minimize friction losses.
Direct drive on an electric car, i.e., having the motor run at the same speed as the wheels, would require a much bigger and heaver motor. The power to weight ratio of an electric motor depends greatly on the speed of the motor. Thus, a motor which develops 100 HP at 500 rpm would be drastically heaver than an electric motor which develops 100 HP at 5000 rpm. Moreover, if a traction motor were built into a wheel, it would drastically increase the unsprung weight. So, unless advanced technology in the future makes it possible to make electric motors far lighter, it is unlikely that we will see electric cars with motors built into the wheels.
*I wonder what a second longer gear would do for range on a long trip.* Would it allow the motor to work less while maintaining the same speed?
@@hulkhatepunybannerno
I've got an idea for shifting coils. DC, no PWM. The clutch is your wheel rubber., and the gas pedal is in your shiftier. Flying sparks and smoking tires.
Yes, its all about joy and feel. Program the controller to replicate the rpm/torque range of a performance gasoline engine.