@ very true but my thought process for the mix magic is like how when enough type of one magic is shoved into a being they become “that” type of magic not so much having the ability to wield it. Like the nathreziem have that light one and are designed to be able to absorb diff magics and like “become” it. Dracthyr that deathwing made have parts of each dragonflights imbued magics and become that kinda. But also fyrakk is also a dragon which can work well with all magic so maybe
I wouldn’t say he’s directly on point but he’s absolutely got the right premise. The depiction is certainly close to what I imagined, even if the colors are off a bit.
Spirit blue? EVERYONE FORGOT WISPS!!! Also, a lot of the color associations are interesting, but the biggest question raised is why does the Fel corruption quest make warlock fire turn green? I would add that azerite is a golden peach tone with an azure icy blue tone.
i don't agree with that take but also they are unfortunately ascribing way too much meaning to something that the writers probably did not give that much thought to. like the whole cosmology model was just invented for chronicle 1. the colors and the forces were not part of a cosmic D20 before that and they probably were not placed into one retroactively
This was super interesting! I love the color concepts and the way each force is connected to others. My theory is that Azeroth is a being that represents "existence." She is connected to every force but is not inherently one with an individual force because she exists as an outward expression of the entire Warcraft universe. Which is why she has such inherent power but also appears to be the only force offering free will, instead of seeking to control like Order or Death do. So the big problem is really that every cosmic power wants to assimilate Azeroth in order to shape all of existence in its own image.
Same! Esp the red one Pyro is skeptical about, considering DKs are represented in red and a lot of their skills are red.. a la "death and decay" is literally a red spell, as well as the strike that steals life force (name I forgot).
Could Red Dragons being "Life" be another titan lie? Perhaps purely ordered Necro? Could Bronze Dragons actually be Orange and thus Ordered Decay is the Timeline/Passing of Time?
The problem with that is red dragons are not resurrecting people. Their magic is in direct opposition with undeath and that is made clear in several expansions including legion. Bronze does not only dabble in the current past but also the current future and parallel pasts and futures so it's not decay. If anything it is more in line with the way the void interprets things. Being able to see all possibilities.
At a certain point we need to be able to have direct evidence we can cite that provides enough logical support for speculation. I think if this idea was going to be explored, it would have been in the expansion we JUST finished about them.
What if Old Gods are decaying World Trees? Or World Trees without exposure to light/earth? Imagine ordinary potato in dark place and how it will when decay starts spread "roots" to reach soil/light.
Hiya Pyro! So I just had a thought, we all know Metzen is big into Wh40k. I'd suggest you might want to take a brief look into "The war in heaven", the C'than, the old ones and necrons/necrothyr in that universe. C'than are essentially star gods or immaterial beings that feed upon stars and later on the souls/spirit matter of the Necrothyr when they underwent biotransference into robots. There is some similarities with our Titans, both in naming and the fact that the warp/chaos is the anathema to them, because they cannot comprehend it. First C'than to make contact with the Necrothyr, is called Aza'gorod, the nightbringer, depicted as Death itself in the lore. Just throwing a thought out there for you to nibble on! 😊 Keep up your amazing vids!
Domination magic is simply a force overwrite in the end. You rewrite something as something different. What raises he question how much of Zovaal for example even remained after he was rewritten.
@ it’s a force overwrite? Yet undead freed from the lich kings domination remember same with death knights. We just learned that the titans made their construct offload their memories to overwrite them. If domination were simply and overwrite then no need for the memory off load
@ zovaal also was a construct which we saw with all the other empty husks during the sep raid. And then something happens to their constructs that gives them free will and they start “malfunctioning”
Wow when it all comes together holy moly.. this is AWESOME. Blue wouldnt be necromantic, since the blue portion is the domination portion. A lot of DK skills are red, and their name plates are represented as red as well. If you count the small balls in the model they match up to the same number of small planes on the cosmology chart, and the large balls match up to the large planes on the chart. :o
Very interesting video and 100% think those shapes and Dornogal are the ones mentioned/hinted at in the lore books! I also just had a super random thought that was sparked from the creation/destruction portion of the video. Could the TItan's be possibly trying to forge Azeroth (and Argus potentially) into a giant weapon, with the purpose of literally and metaphorically striking and removing disorder/Shadow from the cosmos? We know that when creatures are killed on Azeroth (Whatever plane it's located in), they return or are resent to there respective home planes and have the ability to return (Dreadlords, Demons, Void creatures(Dementious the all devouring i think?)) -This is important because it explains why the Titans hold everything in "Stasis" or prison. They know if they were to remove these beings of disorder (and likely have before), they would inevitably return and cause likely more chaos and disorder upon their re-arrival to Azeroth. So this leaves the titan's with a problem that they need to fix, in order to establish their perfect version of the cosmos, they need to eliminate disorder not just contain it, and they can't just kill it away. The solution: "M'thorus, Dagger of the Grand Design", has a flavor text listed as: "Shadows cannot be allowed to fester. Disorder must be struck down wherever it takes hold. True children of the titans will heed their makers' call". If you take this text and think about it at a cosmic scale, can point to a possible Titan conspiracy. Make the creator and destruction gods of the universe a giant blade and kill disorder itself. I mean, for one it sounds super fucking metal and cool - and will likely result in the collapse or destabilization of it at the very least. Some other poitns, the actual design of the blade looks like Azeroth is sitting in the middle of the weapon & we also have in universe: GIANT ASS SWORDs - the top of hilt near the handle also kinda looks like the seat of the pantheon just simplified (Maybe a stretch - but lock picture that bad boy "docking" into the the coreway like some transformer, and then re-orignate the planet into a sword and BAM there's a weapon!). I also vaguely remember in an interview someone from blizzard hinting at where a giant blade like Sargeras sword would come from, eventually eluding to it being made of a planet (Don't 100% quote me on that but i have strong memories of that for some reason?) Titan's are being that build and construct planets so it just fits naturally. There's also other things that tie together but just wanted to provide some food for thought!
Also related to another video about the titan discs WHAT IS THE MANHOLE COVER LOOKING THING that the earthen lady stands on that looks like the same one from emerald night mare that cenarus is standing on
Heros of the Storm has shown us the Universe was a Hexagonal Shape since it launched. The Entire Nexus is Built in that fashion. Their "Gate"ways are literally Hexagonal.
Maybe the structure of the cosmological forces IS azeroths prison (halfway thru the video btw if he ends up saying this lol) but they Said the burning ones kept balance so what if with sargeras out of the picture we've cracked a whole in azeroths prison.
I think Light and Void are representing mutually exclusive choice, as in yes and no. Situations in which you can not have it both ways, where making a choice One Way excludes you from the other path.
Is there a visualization of the Manifold BEFORE the sundering to show how far they were from each other? Like why does un goro and sholazar have a tp to each other if they were connected at one point?
Two things, Wow devs have said the newer the colors are more accurate to the actual magic. We know the titans lied to us and probably shifted off perspective on purpose. Pyro has entertained that argus and azeroth are flipped. Reoriganization does seem like decay magic. 😅
But explain how the red dragon flight is represented by the life binder. How can red be death but the flight that embodies the color is using life magic.
@pauldacon828 Living flame is a Red spell used by evokers and it heals more than it damages by almost double. Fire breath another Red spell will heal for damage done if used by a Preservation Evoker. Renewing blaze is a Red spell that heals the caster for 100% of the damage they take. Red is clearly using life magic.
@ I doubt the laws of physics apply directly to or in wow and that law is energy can’t be lost not nothing. I doubt Velen was giving urel a science lesson
You can doubt it all you want but your wrong. Nothing can be created or destroyed is more about information in the universe than anything else. Energy = information they are the same thing. And what did we see in uldir oh data storage unit for all living things. Oh wait that's information. See quote "These discs currently contain fifty norgabytes of biological data on known lifeforms throughout the cosmos. Seventy five norgabytes of every existing chemical compound." So yea nice try pal.
@ you can think that all you want but you didn’t write wow lore or wow physics because apply more laws of science from the real world to a game makes total sense 🤦🏾♂️
Eh, I'm not with this one. For example, where's Blood magic? Corrupted life magic is red, but he'd consider that shadow magic, since Life is opposite Shadow and not Death. He was cooking with the geometry but lost me with the colours. A lot of good work here to refine and build on. I think I don't like some of the terms and associations he used, like his version of Shadow/Death is sorta conflated and confused the way it was back in classic.
Wait... are we the players walking motes of creation.. or spirit... and it is why we can never die? And by giving ourselves or our essence unto.. azeroth she will wake? After all.. We came to be as result of the titans meddling while being called curses and all kinds of things to hide what we are...
Yah we did all of this 20 years ago with a tv show called LOST. Fans went down complicated rabbit holes searching for higher meanings. Then in the end, JJ Abrams explained none of it and said it was just about the journey over 7 seasons of a tv show and that was it. Fans were outraged that all their speculation was for nothing
16:03 I think... Light and void are not single/pure forces in and of themselves like the others are, but cumulations of all forces, just connected/balanced differently. Like an umbrella term, or, like a molecule/dna structure even. Add, remove or reposition even one molecule/gene/force and it becomes something completely new. Due to how they manifest/take form, these cumulated forces SEEM like single/pure forces and total opposites, but in essence, they both consist of the same basic forces, just in different proportions/positions. They're brothers from the same mother (Azeroth) 😉 Xala'that about the Naruu: "They are merely beloved brethren that lost the true path." Keyword here is "true". BOTH paths (=connections made with all basic forces through different PATHWAYS along all verteces) are true essentially, it just depends on which POV you take on. All is one and one is all. As above, so below. Yin and Yang. Carl Jung and his concept about the shadow self comes to mind, all the time, when it comes to the titans and their ordering. Trying to get rid of ones shadow self/side, instead of embracing it as part of the whole, is the nature of (inner) war.
Orange for decay makes sense with its autumnal association, the waning of summer/sunny days, drop in temperature, the dying/decaying of green plants
Literally the nathreziem and dracthyr 2:20 are examples of how more than one force can affect beings primarily associated with one.
Isn't shadowflame kind of a mix of magics, too? Fyrakk could be another example.
@ very true but my thought process for the mix magic is like how when enough type of one magic is shoved into a being they become “that” type of magic not so much having the ability to wield it. Like the nathreziem have that light one and are designed to be able to absorb diff magics and like “become” it. Dracthyr that deathwing made have parts of each dragonflights imbued magics and become that kinda. But also fyrakk is also a dragon which can work well with all magic so maybe
ionized air glow is purple.
I wouldn’t say he’s directly on point but he’s absolutely got the right premise. The depiction is certainly close to what I imagined, even if the colors are off a bit.
Spirit blue? EVERYONE FORGOT WISPS!!!
Also, a lot of the color associations are interesting, but the biggest question raised is why does the Fel corruption quest make warlock fire turn green?
I would add that azerite is a golden peach tone with an azure icy blue tone.
" WoW lore is so brain dead and way to simplistic. " Pyro, Xaxxas, and this guy walk into the room. 👀🧠💥
i don't agree with that take but also they are unfortunately ascribing way too much meaning to something that the writers probably did not give that much thought to. like the whole cosmology model was just invented for chronicle 1. the colors and the forces were not part of a cosmic D20 before that and they probably were not placed into one retroactively
The Titans say that Azeroth had no spirit because she consumed it right, they would never lie to us and take spirit for themselves right.
This was super interesting! I love the color concepts and the way each force is connected to others. My theory is that Azeroth is a being that represents "existence." She is connected to every force but is not inherently one with an individual force because she exists as an outward expression of the entire Warcraft universe. Which is why she has such inherent power but also appears to be the only force offering free will, instead of seeking to control like Order or Death do. So the big problem is really that every cosmic power wants to assimilate Azeroth in order to shape all of existence in its own image.
I'm sort of shocked no one noticed the classes represented when he was doing the vertices spin around.
Same! Esp the red one Pyro is skeptical about, considering DKs are represented in red and a lot of their skills are red.. a la "death and decay" is literally a red spell, as well as the strike that steals life force (name I forgot).
Could Red Dragons being "Life" be another titan lie? Perhaps purely ordered Necro? Could Bronze Dragons actually be Orange and thus Ordered Decay is the Timeline/Passing of Time?
Ordered necro, like "I won't allow you to die."?
I don't believe so, I believe that the red dragon flight is based on mortal life
The problem with that is red dragons are not resurrecting people. Their magic is in direct opposition with undeath and that is made clear in several expansions including legion.
Bronze does not only dabble in the current past but also the current future and parallel pasts and futures so it's not decay. If anything it is more in line with the way the void interprets things. Being able to see all possibilities.
What about the Ruby Sanctum?
At a certain point we need to be able to have direct evidence we can cite that provides enough logical support for speculation. I think if this idea was going to be explored, it would have been in the expansion we JUST finished about them.
Elune is the fifth old god, but becasue she is tied to spirit, titans cannot hurt her. HEH
Getting dangerously close to enantiomorpic structures with that last warrior thief mage section hehe
Love it
@@d-pod_L Who would be King Rebel and Observer in WoW? Food for thought
What if Old Gods are decaying World Trees? Or World Trees without exposure to light/earth? Imagine ordinary potato in dark place and how it will when decay starts spread "roots" to reach soil/light.
This video deserves way more views and likes!!!! Very good!!!! Greetings from Chile.😀
Hiya Pyro! So I just had a thought, we all know Metzen is big into Wh40k.
I'd suggest you might want to take a brief look into "The war in heaven", the C'than, the old ones and necrons/necrothyr in that universe.
C'than are essentially star gods or immaterial beings that feed upon stars and later on the souls/spirit matter of the Necrothyr when they underwent biotransference into robots.
There is some similarities with our Titans, both in naming and the fact that the warp/chaos is the anathema to them, because they cannot comprehend it.
First C'than to make contact with the Necrothyr, is called Aza'gorod, the nightbringer, depicted as Death itself in the lore.
Just throwing a thought out there for you to nibble on! 😊
Keep up your amazing vids!
Necromancy seems like domination magic and undead magic together and maybe a bit of life magic
Domination magic is simply a force overwrite in the end.
You rewrite something as something different.
What raises he question how much of Zovaal for example even remained after he was rewritten.
@ it’s a force overwrite? Yet undead freed from the lich kings domination remember same with death knights. We just learned that the titans made their construct offload their memories to overwrite them. If domination were simply and overwrite then no need for the memory off load
@ zovaal also was a construct which we saw with all the other empty husks during the sep raid. And then something happens to their constructs that gives them free will and they start “malfunctioning”
This guy's video is very well done! This is very much like Kabala's understanding of the Universe as a whole! I love this, really great vid!
Void/Light conflict is based on how printers work. Got it.
Wow when it all comes together holy moly.. this is AWESOME. Blue wouldnt be necromantic, since the blue portion is the domination portion. A lot of DK skills are red, and their name plates are represented as red as well. If you count the small balls in the model they match up to the same number of small planes on the cosmology chart, and the large balls match up to the large planes on the chart. :o
Very interesting video and 100% think those shapes and Dornogal are the ones mentioned/hinted at in the lore books!
I also just had a super random thought that was sparked from the creation/destruction portion of the video. Could the TItan's be possibly trying to forge Azeroth (and Argus potentially) into a giant weapon, with the purpose of literally and metaphorically striking and removing disorder/Shadow from the cosmos?
We know that when creatures are killed on Azeroth (Whatever plane it's located in), they return or are resent to there respective home planes and have the ability to return (Dreadlords, Demons, Void creatures(Dementious the all devouring i think?)) -This is important because it explains why the Titans hold everything in "Stasis" or prison. They know if they were to remove these beings of disorder (and likely have before), they would inevitably return and cause likely more chaos and disorder upon their re-arrival to Azeroth. So this leaves the titan's with a problem that they need to fix, in order to establish their perfect version of the cosmos, they need to eliminate disorder not just contain it, and they can't just kill it away. The solution:
"M'thorus, Dagger of the Grand Design", has a flavor text listed as: "Shadows cannot be allowed to fester. Disorder must be struck down wherever it takes hold. True children of the titans will heed their makers' call". If you take this text and think about it at a cosmic scale, can point to a possible Titan conspiracy. Make the creator and destruction gods of the universe a giant blade and kill disorder itself. I mean, for one it sounds super fucking metal and cool - and will likely result in the collapse or destabilization of it at the very least.
Some other poitns, the actual design of the blade looks like Azeroth is sitting in the middle of the weapon & we also have in universe: GIANT ASS SWORDs - the top of hilt near the handle also kinda looks like the seat of the pantheon just simplified (Maybe a stretch - but lock picture that bad boy "docking" into the the coreway like some transformer, and then re-orignate the planet into a sword and BAM there's a weapon!). I also vaguely remember in an interview someone from blizzard hinting at where a giant blade like Sargeras sword would come from, eventually eluding to it being made of a planet (Don't 100% quote me on that but i have strong memories of that for some reason?) Titan's are being that build and construct planets so it just fits naturally. There's also other things that tie together but just wanted to provide some food for thought!
Also related to another video about the titan discs WHAT IS THE MANHOLE COVER LOOKING THING that the earthen lady stands on that looks like the same one from emerald night mare that cenarus is standing on
Fel has green in its color grouping, so technically you have what you thinking.
Heros of the Storm has shown us the Universe was a Hexagonal Shape since it launched. The Entire Nexus is Built in that fashion. Their "Gate"ways are literally Hexagonal.
Uncontrolled / vivid / strong anima is red
Undead using light another example
Maybe the structure of the cosmological forces IS azeroths prison (halfway thru the video btw if he ends up saying this lol) but they Said the burning ones kept balance so what if with sargeras out of the picture we've cracked a whole in azeroths prison.
I still think there's some sorta link between the First Ones and the Devourers.
Holy lightning...think the paladin hammer they throw on the ground
I think Light and Void are representing mutually exclusive choice, as in yes and no. Situations in which you can not have it both ways, where making a choice One Way excludes you from the other path.
The Crossroads ☠️
The guy who made this video COOKED!!!
World soul was orange at first but azeroth consumed all the spirit on the planet?
I’m willing to bet there’s a love story at the end of all this.
I do hope to see more Sha later with the dabbling of Old Gods and stuff.
wait, what if sargeras sword gave it back to azeroth, when he stabbed the planet?
Is there a visualization of the Manifold BEFORE the sundering to show how far they were from each other? Like why does un goro and sholazar have a tp to each other if they were connected at one point?
0:46 yea why are we limited to one talent tree, we want to be a fireicemage or an arcanefiremage etc. i guess i should try classic xD
surprised there is no plane representing Psychic maybe spirit counts but I'm not that well versed
And the DK weapon was for unholy👀 where we are the most necromantic
Also there's a spell called Holy Shock, that could be holy and air (lightning lol)
Two things, Wow devs have said the newer the colors are more accurate to the actual magic. We know the titans lied to us and probably shifted off perspective on purpose. Pyro has entertained that argus and azeroth are flipped. Reoriganization does seem like decay magic. 😅
Is Azeroth maybe a spirit titan or worldsoul? Since it said to have absorbed all the spirit energy on Azeroth.
But explain how the red dragon flight is represented by the life binder. How can red be death but the flight that embodies the color is using life magic.
I don't know how to explain it, but I have never trusted the red dragonflight and I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't using life Magic.
@pauldacon828
Living flame is a Red spell used by evokers and it heals more than it damages by almost double. Fire breath another Red spell will heal for damage done if used by a Preservation Evoker.
Renewing blaze is a Red spell that heals the caster for 100% of the damage they take.
Red is clearly using life magic.
maybe fel is green because it is burning souls...
Does that mean there could be Lightforged Old Gods?
If yes, the might look like a chandalier.
@Angerina_ then what does a death Old God look like? The Shinigami King from Death Note?
More so, what would a Life Old God look like 😯?
14:58 Velen saying “nothing is ever lost” then sacrifices himself to that like maybe he isn’t dead or “lost”
Well nothing is ever lost is a law of physics.
@ I doubt the laws of physics apply directly to or in wow and that law is energy can’t be lost not nothing. I doubt Velen was giving urel a science lesson
You can doubt it all you want but your wrong. Nothing can be created or destroyed is more about information in the universe than anything else. Energy = information they are the same thing. And what did we see in uldir oh data storage unit for all living things. Oh wait that's information. See quote
"These discs currently contain fifty norgabytes of biological data on known lifeforms throughout the cosmos. Seventy five norgabytes of every existing chemical compound."
So yea nice try pal.
@ you can think that all you want but you didn’t write wow lore or wow physics because apply more laws of science from the real world to a game makes total sense 🤦🏾♂️
@ and tell me again how that relates to Velen saying nothing is lost? He was giving urel a science lesson no? Nice try buddy
Eh, I'm not with this one. For example, where's Blood magic? Corrupted life magic is red, but he'd consider that shadow magic, since Life is opposite Shadow and not Death. He was cooking with the geometry but lost me with the colours. A lot of good work here to refine and build on. I think I don't like some of the terms and associations he used, like his version of Shadow/Death is sorta conflated and confused the way it was back in classic.
Wait... are we the players walking motes of creation.. or spirit... and it is why we can never die? And by giving ourselves or our essence unto.. azeroth she will wake? After all.. We came to be as result of the titans meddling while being called curses and all kinds of things to hide what we are...
Yah we did all of this 20 years ago with a tv show called LOST. Fans went down complicated rabbit holes searching for higher meanings. Then in the end, JJ Abrams explained none of it and said it was just about the journey over 7 seasons of a tv show and that was it. Fans were outraged that all their speculation was for nothing
16:03 I think... Light and void are not single/pure forces in and of themselves like the others are, but cumulations of all forces, just connected/balanced differently. Like an umbrella term, or, like a molecule/dna structure even. Add, remove or reposition even one molecule/gene/force and it becomes something completely new. Due to how they manifest/take form, these cumulated forces SEEM like single/pure forces and total opposites, but in essence, they both consist of the same basic forces, just in different proportions/positions.
They're brothers from the same mother (Azeroth) 😉
Xala'that about the Naruu: "They are merely beloved brethren that lost the true path."
Keyword here is "true". BOTH paths (=connections made with all basic forces through different PATHWAYS along all verteces) are true essentially, it just depends on which POV you take on.
All is one and one is all.
As above, so below.
Yin and Yang.
Carl Jung and his concept about the shadow self comes to mind, all the time, when it comes to the titans and their ordering. Trying to get rid of ones shadow self/side, instead of embracing it as part of the whole, is the nature of (inner) war.
I got my Thanksgiving leftovers for lunch, a 57 min Pyromancer video, life is good :)
None of this makes any sense thb...
Blimey I'm early