I have bought your C70 LUTs a couple of days ago and I really have to say they are a great. They use the tonal range of c-log2 much better that the Canon Conversion LUT, and also get rid of that reddish touch. I can highly recommend them, they are absolutely worth the money.
Green-magenta shift was a dead giveaway - canons are notoriously magenta and Alexa is known for its green tint. With both images properly balanced it would be very hard to spot the difference, at least here on youtube.
I don't know what color profile he used on canon, but i know for sure clog2 might have the best dynamic range but it doesn't have the best colors where you can actually say, canon colors. I don't know which log has a better colors if clog1 or clog3, but I'm sure it's one of those or you can use traditional neutral/standard color profile, which is actually known for the canon color science.
I was a full time editor at a commercial post house for 3 years where the majority of the footage we worked with was shot on Alexa Mini’s using Cooke lenses. It definitely spoils you.
It was pretty easy to spot, but doing video as a side hustle, the C70 ticks a lot of boxes for me and would be far enough for me. Currently I only own a R6 and a R, but I also do a lot of photography. Since I switched to only using RF lenses, I really hope more options will come out for that mount.
Well, 2 years later and canon finally got a FF RF true cinema camera. The R5c is truly an epic camera for many reasons, it also has a lot of little things that really hold it back. Then again, it’s a hybrid camera at heart, not a dedicated Cinema camera. For what it does do, it’s damn impressive. The C400 sure seems like a really solid camera. The only thing not mentioned and I think would’ve been an added strong feature would be 32-bit float for the audio inputs.
Hey Griffin, can you do a test that uses the same lens on both cameras? I think a huge reason for the quality difference is actually the glass you put in front of the sensor. If you have two different lenses, it will give you two vastly different looks. Even the 24mm in the Alexa won't look nearly as good since it's just Canon glass
He probably didn’t have a adapter available. The GL Optics Leica R is likely PL and the Canon 24L being likely EF. The Canons L’s are pretty sharp, but I get what you’re saying, having 2 different glass don’t really work when comparing.
I had an adapter but the problem would be I couldn’t use the speed booster on the c70 with the PL mount GL Optics, so the field of view would be way different.
The C70 actually does 9:16 pretty well. There's the side thread for mounting it vertically and you can rotate the menus so that they work in that mode. The Arri sensor is of course gorgeous and screams 'Hollywood'. The RED Monstro/Raptor is actually sharper though and is becoming the de-facto 'Netflix look' (eg. Squid Games to be topical)
Same glass on the camera is a good test as well and will definitely make them look more similar, but that wasn’t my goal. I wanted to put two cameras side by side, not color matched, and with glass that they would typically be run with
It doesn't really make sense to show a bunch of shots that are unmatched since it would be trivial to make them look closer to each other with some basic grading or just the right LUT anyway. I'm more interested in how close the c70 with an clog2 to arri709 conversion lut looks compared to the miLF in rec709 ideally on the same lens and everything. Or however they are matched it would be most useful to see all the shots matched and normalized. Who cares how they look when the image is 3stops too dark or 3stops too bright, no one would ever deliver that, so what's more useful is how does it look when it's under/overexposed and normalized?
Completely wrong. It's way more useful to present shots that are *UNTOUCHED* to be able to tell what camera/sensor is producing which kind of image rather than slapping on some "grading/CC" (which is hiiiiiiiighly subjective and can completely alter the differences in the sensors). I mean you could ask Conway if he could think about sharing/uploading the recorded material seperately so you could try to invest your time to match up the clips to get answers to your thoughts. The under- and overexposures are extremely helpful in figuring out the capabilities of a sensor. Of course nobody would deliver like that but it's good to know how far you could theoretically go if you use the showcased camera/sensor in extreme situations in your own workflow. Especially if you rent them. Sometimes prep-day isn't enough time to figure stuff like this out. You are way too busy testing dozens of other important things regarding the project.
@@AtillaLifeson problem is you can't tell how far you can go since you wouldn't deliver images like that. Unless you match the footage and normalize exposure you are just trying to judge noise that's hidden in a very compressed part of the response curve. Perception of noise and detail in general is highly dependent on contrast and so it's very difficult to see anything hidden in dark shadows unless you push it up, which is what you'd probably be doing if you were actually exposing like that anyway since it's rare you'd deliver images that are so dark you can't discern any detail and hides any noise in that detail. Also "untouched" is meaningless when comparing 2 different cameras since the curves are always touched by the arbitrary log curve and the arbitrary rec709 look that specific to the manufacturer or whatever transform you're looking at by default. Any differences you see are just a difference in log or default look, both things that are normalized away with a click of a button in post, so they are generally not that meaningful to compare unless you are specifically comparing one manufacturers' default curve to another's which are often designed not with that particular camera in mind but several of the manufacturer's previous cameras.
I am grateful for your videos. In a pinch of I shot some pick ups, B-roll with C-70, would it pass to be cut into a feature shot on Alexa mini? Exterior drive by’s with snow, early day late day… snow… lower light… it's a gritty film anyway… thanks
I haven’t touched an Alexa yet! I did a shoot with the C70 and the RED Monstro 8k and I could definitely tell the difference between operating and post production. I feel like I could use the C70 for any shoot under the sun, but if I want to know I’m getting the best quality possible, I would definitely rent something like a Red Monstro or Alexa mini. I’m such a fan of Red’s post production workflow. And I would use it for big productions just because I know it’s going to be easy to work with and there won’t be any surprises. What do you think the difference is between the Arri workflow and the RED workflow?
In terms of Quality they seem to be similar, but I think what we see in colour comparison that's beyond different, I was considering if C70 has a IR pollution issue like BMPCC, I'd like to see a video on that.
The c70 doesn’t have IR pollution. It’s just the canon colors leaning more magenta with the stock luts. If you check the part where I reveal which camera is which you can see that with my GC lut it doesn’t look so magenta
Hey Grif, one time can you do a comparisson that will shock ppl, arri Master Primes vs some L lenses and show people why cinematographers care more about glass than cameras. that would be dope.
Just that lens alone makes a pretty big difference, that actually might have contributed a lot to the difference in image. That Leica in particular is like a Cooke prime or something of that tier
The magic of the arri the people aren’t realizing isn’t the chip or the lens. It’s the way it handles the motion. Just look at the leaves blowing in the background.
It's all decreasing margins from the c500/fx7 up. Unless you absolutely need that extra 'it' factor, they are all very capable. In saying that though, you can just tell the Alexa can make the darkest of nights look like daytime if it needs to!
That latitude is one of many benefits you get in the more expensive camera. As expensive as the Alexa is, it only a small fraction of the multi-million dollar budget of the films it can be used to create. These filmmakers can't afford to to have cameras that malfunctions.
Great video. I agree. There are horses for courses and cameras for assignments. Would I love to have an Alexa Mini? Ah, yeah. It's a lot of money. I just finished a job where A camera was a Sony Venice 2 kitted out with Zeiss prime lenses. B camera was my Canon C70 with RF glass. The editor said the C70 footage held up real well.
Does the LF's white balance seem kind of off? Were they at the same wb settings? Was also hoping to see the 3 stops over and 2 stops under brought to the correct exposure to get a feel of the dynamic range. Great video!
Hey Griffin, thanks for the review, I am a 6K PRO user, but I've been looking at the Canon C70 for some time now, simply because of the configuration and physical arrangement, but I'm having a bit of trouble deciding as I don't find the image quality superior to the 6K PRO, please correct me if I am wrong, but it seems that the C70 was a bit out of focus? Or the ALEXA MINI LF is just that good that makes every camera look inferior?
Both are great and I bought both of them with my own money. Different tools for different jobs. Image quality is similar and the c70 has a few more features. Here’s my full thoughts: ua-cam.com/video/ZKvi3o04PdY/v-deo.html
Yeah, the FX6 has that expensive look... It would be super hard to see the difference between Alexa and FX6 with graded footage and using the same lens. There would even be a significant edge to the FX6 in low light.
Griffin: I'm a small youtuber making videos with the A7III and now the R5/R6...dreaming of a Red or Arri...to make my videos! Even though the R5 is way overkill. Love your uploads.
That Alexa look is something special - It almost feels like what Hasselblad does in the stills world to me - Ultra expensive but my soul won't rest until I have one someday. I want one more than I want a house or a nice car. Not to knock the C70 in any way, at its price point I think it's a very special tool and I dream of owning one for one-man run n gun work like doccies and corporate vids. But I'm only starting out, so I'm saving up for a BMPCC 6K pro. Thanks for sharing.
Great presentation as usual! Sorry, but it just makes no sense to me comparing asthetics, color etc. of different cameras without using the same lens. The lens has such a great impact on the final image.
I agree with you. My goal for this test was to show two cameras that I was actually using side by side for an actual commercial set. We needed one shot in 120p and wanted to see if we could make it close enough to the mini lf so that’s why we shot it the way we did
Probably going to upgrade to a C70 once I get the funds, then switch to RF glass, and I'll have the R6 as a second. Shooting mostly weddings and can't have gear capabilities get in my way, plus the dynamic range of cinema cameras just looks so much better and softer than hybrid cameras.
Hey Kamal! Thanks bro. This one I used canon L glass on the c70 and Leica r lenses on the mini LF. I meant to show how they look different basically, instead of trying to make them look the same
Obviously you had very little time to shoot this comparison (which you said), but I would argue that a big component of the image quality difference can be attributed to the glass on each camera. The Alexa with the high end cinema glass you're using is absolutely going to beat the c70 with a canon L photo lens. That being said, even with those things noted, the c70 definitely holds it own for sure!
Leica R is an old stills lens, rehoused by GL Optics in this case. It's vintage, but still much better than a modern Canon lens. The color difference you can spot here is mostly due to the FSND filtration used in Alexa - thus less infrared pollution in the image overall. Canon has good IR cut (see Hurlbut comparison between Red MX and Canon C-series), but it does seem in C70 it's not a full-spectrum filtration, or just the color science of Canon. C70 is a remarkably good all-rounder, wish it had SDI though.
@@alexlubensky Genuine question: what specifically about the Leica R makes it much better than a modern Canon lens? Comparing them on the same camera seems to be very minimal differences (Matteo Bertoli's 18-35 vs Leica R test for example), at least to my eye. Could you please elaborate more?
@@dna8269 Canon L's degrade over time of use due to various plastic elements inside, especially under heavy use. It varies from lens to lens, and vastly depends on the screen size you aim to shoot for. Round lenses can look really similar on smaller screens, but even on a big TV you'll see lots of stuff happening regarding out of focus rendition, overall contrast, flaring, sharpness, color rendition and so on. Also, R series has a rather long time-span regarding production, so the coatings can be rather different from lens to lens. Basically R's are a proper manual lens design by german manufacturer, while L's are built for AF and mass-market, just a different aim and a market. It's much easier to compare R's to FD's than to L's. Each lens out there has a space for it, I'd say they are just different. I would prefer R's to L's any day, because of the R's character and overall look. In modern world I'd say there's no "best" lens, but the one that ticks all the boxes for you.
The biggest difference between the cameras in terms of image quality (excluding the obvious color difference) is the highlight retention in the mini LF and also the sensor size. It was definitely a short test but maybe I’ll do more in the future
Your videos and presentations are so genuine. We appreciate it. Hoping the wedding went well. thanks Martin (Coming from the Canon XF305/605/705 world but about to purchase a C70)
The difference in the image is pretty insane, the Canon didn’t even come close. I immediately knew which was which - I expected it to be much closer actually, pretty surprising
ehm, I see way more difference in lens than in camera with the comparison. This sounded like a big commercial for the Alexa Mini to get people to dump money on it, or to validate his own purchase. Many cameras have 14 stops of dynamic range for crazy lighting, or pretty close to it, like the S5 has 13-14 stops and many others. Again, these comparisons show off the difference in lens quality and of course post processing.
@@GriffinConway Doesn't change the facts. More time spent on valid comparison samples, accounting for crop factor and white balance could have helped a little :)
We shoot musicvideos with the mini lf. The Image ist great and i like the color. The 2k resuluton or is much Cleaner than a lot of 4k Images of other other cameras.
I've watch all your videos on the C70 and I've not heard you or any one else say they've had this problem. Do you ever get a Buffer Overflow Recording Has Stopped when shooting in S&F mode 120/23.976? I get this message after recording for about 10 seconds. Sometimes the camera locks up and I has to power it off then back on. I'm using Pro Grade 25GB V90 cards I've already replaced them thinking they were bad but the new cards are doing the same thing. Of all the UA-cam videos I've watched on this camera I've not seen one person talking about the camera doing this when recording in 120 slow motion. Oddly enough it was happening every time I was filming the trees in my backyard. When I moved away from the tree it worked but when I pointed the camera up in the tree at 24mm it would do it every time. This happens on both cards as well. Any suggestions or thoughts?
Check out the part where I reveal which camera is which and then show my GC lit on the c70. It doesn’t look as magenta. The c70 doesn’t have IR pollution
I used to be perfectly happy with run and gun-friendly cameras until I got to shoot on RED and grade Alexa footage. I've been ruined ever since, no joke. Anything less than the image quality from those cameras doesn't feel as enjoyable to shoot with. It's crazy. Could immediately tell which was the Alexa. That IQ is mind blowing and just "feels like a movie" SOOC.
The guy in the frame is positioned differently which gives Alexa a better overall impression. The depth of field softening looks better in Alexa; however, Canon with fine lenses may be able to achieve the same results. Canon tends to add some extra reds which can be fixed in the settings. The details in Alexa are obviously finer. However, it may not add any value to the footage because nobody likes their real skin texture or other unnecessary details exposed. People want a smoother look in films. Canon R5C has a better potential.
Great video Griffin and exactly on point - LOve the Alexa (hire cam for me) but most of my work is on the C70 or a C300 mkII for documentary making. High end jobs the Alexa is the beast for sure. Keep up the excellent work bro!
Not a fair comparison, much like a Cadillac vs Toyota Corolla..IMO, Canon C70 is just not that good at all, even on its own. I'd say BMPCC would hold up much better against ARRI, but only in a color department. There's simply no contest with ARRI.
I was wondering about BMPCC too. I'd love to see a comparison of BMPCC6K vs Alexa with the same glass since it's chosen by some as a B-cam to the Alexa on smaller productions
Dude! Always love you videos! Watching on my phone I can’t really tell the difference, watching on my monitor is where I can see more of a difference even through YT compression. However, both footage looks amazing and I honestly, and this maybe blasphemous prefer the C70 footage! Awesome video dude!
@@damiendehorn6350 well, I have a older Xr. And I also have it set to night mode when I watched it. The only thing I was able to see was the composition and the out of focus area that were different. But, also my eyes are really just not very great!
This video share alot of truth. I got a Varicam LT and a Panasonic S1H. When i'm talking to other filmakers that the size and the ''wow'' factor plays big role for your clients and they believe that you can do it because you own a big camera they always trash me. They don't get it. I showed up in a very tiny production with my S1H and everyone thought it's a photo camera. Now,everytime i have a fairly good client i always go with both but i'm using the S1H,you can tell that they believe in you by just showing off gear. It's unfortunate but very true. Keep these mate, Subscribed !
How do you like the S1H compared to Varicam when it comes to motion and caddice? A lot of these newer cameras have plenty of dynamic range but Canon and Sony (minus the Venice) really struggle with motion and colors. For commercial work they are good, but not narrative as much. I have been looking at a S1H to B cam with a LF, but I have never tried one. True filmic quality at all with motion and highlight rolloff? Cheers my friend!
so at 1:54 i was convinced A was the Alexa because the building over the fence was not blown out like in B. I am either bias to my c70 or just have a ways to go in seeing quality lol
Hey Fraser! If you see the waveform in premiere the mini LF actually has crazy good highlight retention. Way better than the c70 (and probably the best out of any cinema camera I have tested).
not the same lens not the same compression and white balance is off i wish for better better test and maybe better lut like phantom and also compare with c500 :)
This comparison video leaves a lot to be desired. Would of liked to have reviewed the scenes matched both in terms of color and DOF. I imagine the only difference in the end would be dynamic range.
Unfortunately since I just do youtube as my hobby and I had to prep for my actual commercial production I had the next day I couldn’t test everything. I would have liked to test more as well. Maybe in the future though!
Late to the party, sorry I missed this before Grif. As always love the content and the stories that go with it, making friends thanks to a camera hahaha. Awesome! I have seen some really impressive footage come off the C70 and it's an amazing little package. This simple comparison though shows how the larger sensor has more separation of subject to background in a distance like above and a bit wider. I'd guess this is what cinematographers mean when they say a lens has a more 3 dimensional quality. I think that this separation is one of the reasons many people are drawn to anamorphics. A larger sensor can give you more of that feel with sphericals. As you said, both great tools. Thanks for another good one brother.
Another thing in my opinion is that most people watching UA-cam for independent films or music videos are more concerned with seeing the content, not necessarily the image quality. As long as it looks good enough people are really concerned with content. Who cares if the picture quality is fantastic if the movie story sucks or the music video has a boring song. I don’t think people go to UA-cam to see movies because they want to see great image quality. They want to see an interesting story. Testing these modern cameras is literally splitting hairs. All the cameras are so good it really doesn’t matter. Just tell a good story. People won’t be concerned with which camera you used. It’s like those audiophiles that buy thousand dollar turn tables and play back a vinyl album hoping to hear some extra decibel of quality. Ultimately if you like the song it’ll sound just as good to you on an MP3 player as it does on a fantastic stereo system. Because whats important is the song content and the singer’s voice, not necessarily the fantastic recording quality. All the Beatles songs were recorded on analog reel to reel tapes but they still sound fantastic to this day.
I'm sorry, but nothing could be further from the true. Sure, your comment about a good story being paramount is what's most important. But that doesn't mean people still don't want to see a high-quality picture. If it were otherwise, nobody would be buying 4k TVs. Its the same with high-quality audio equipment. The better your equipment, the more detail you'll get from your recording. And sound engineer spend an awful lot of time to make their work stand out.
@@krane15 I would agree with all you said except that my comment was referring to video ending up on UA-cam- not on people's 4K TV. Of course if you're a Hollywood producer and your stuff is on the big screen or TV then picture quality is paramount. But if you're an independent filmmaker and your 45 minute film will spend its whole life on UA-cam then that fantastic footage from a $75,000 camera will not really shine through. It might to some degree but it's not worth the money compared to how much better it appears on UA-cam. I know from experience. I shot a music video in a professional green screen studio using Sony FS7. That's a $13,000 camera. Later during editing realized that some shots had to be redone. So I used a Lumix FZ2500 and a home green screen studio. After spliced together and tweaked you could not distinguish between what was shot with the FS7 and what was shot with the FZ2500. Go figure. A $1,500 dollar camera did as good a job as a $13,000 dollar camera. I'm not saying we shouldn't strive to have the best camera money can buy. But I think the camera you buy should be chosen in the light of where people will view your footage. If it's on UA-cam it hardly matters what you use. All the modern cameras are really good. Reasonably good is good enough. Nobody chooses to watch a movie based on how good the picture looks. If the story and acting is bad everyone will stop watching even if it was shot on Panavision Millennium DXL2. Just take a look at Wonder Woman....
@@atomicdynamo6062 People notice picture quality, it's just subconscious. ie: "wow that looks like a movie" is the type of feedback you'll hear rather than "oh wow that dynamic range is amazing!" Our brains know what a blockbuster look looks like, even if we don't express it in technical terms. All else being equal (lighting etc) a certain look to the footage can pull you out of a story even if it's compelling. It's cool right now to say, "story is king! A great story will captivate even on an iphone!" but it's not entirely true. I recently watched a short film with a friend and the story was very good, but his only comment at the end was, "that looked so "artificial" for some reason." The film was shot on Sony with g-master glass, so what he was referring to was the digital look of Sony footage versus the more filmic Alexa with Cooke glass or whatever. People notice. On the DP side, it can be very demotivating to shoot with a camera/glass that isn't producing the look you want, and vice versa.
@@dna8269 It's true that some things are noticeable. But not so much on UA-cam which is what I was talking about. The modern cinema cameras are all so good you can hardly tell the difference between them. Just look at the myriad of tests. The image quality is so similar It's just about irrelevant. If there is a big difference between all these cameras it is things like autofocus and ease of use/convenience. A good autofocus will make a camera that much better. Quality of image would be very noticeable between say a1985 Betamovie camera and today's C70. But the difference between a C70 and an Arri Alexa is pretty small especially on UA-cam. There's a test on UA-cam between a C200 and an Arri Alexa. After adjustment the C200 image looked pretty close to the Arri footage. But the price difference between the two cameras is huge.
I might be wrong but I think the entire cinema camera market is about to be shaken up with advances like full frame high megapixel stacked sensors available in hybrid cameras that can shoot raw, and do at least 4K 120 not cropped. If you do not need the cinema camera to do your audio other than a scratch track then buying a camera with no image stabilization that requires 3 operators is one kind of shoot, but the smaller camera that has the advanced image capabilities can be flown on a light crane, or single operator operated opens up a lot of possibilities. Right now, sure the Cannon Cinema cameras are very good, but I think they are all about to become obsolete and very soon, by the next generation of enhanced sensor camera technology that is in the hybrid cameras now. I can not see buying a C70 today given the sensor size, when it seems obvious it will be superseded very soon, same for the C300, C500. If you need an Alexa you can rent it.
Cinema cameras with bigger bodies have better heat management and support larger batteries than mirrorless cams, and they also don't need an external recorder for RAW like lots of mirrorless cams still do. If you need to shoot for hours at a time, having an A-cam at least that isn't going to overheat or chew threw 20 batteries is worth the extra bulk. I would never giver up my C100 for a mirrorless with 10x better image but without all the ergonomic benefits of the bigger body.
@@seangentry2943 That makes a lot of sense, the point I wanted to make in my post is that with the new, faster, high density stacked image sensors, and with IBIS, I expect to see a lot of new Cinema models soon, based on the technologies now in the newer mirrorless designs. And my understanding is that not all current Cinema will run all day on one small battery, that does not seem to be the case. So I wonder given a very good hand held cinema camera like the FX6, or FX3 full frame sensor, light, small, good ventilation, will Sony wait three years to update those relatively new models with a higher density stacked sensor and will they introduce IBIS and advanced AF to that platform? For Cannon, its really the same possibility, the EOS R3, how hard would it be for Canon to update the C70 with the R3 sensor, with advanced AF, vastly improved rolling shutter, etc.
@@leschwartz Well there are some reasons. Higher density sensors are nice until you look at the data rates you get by shooting in 6K, 8K, 10K, etc at high bitrates (or even RAW) for hours and hours a day. Canon and Sony have saved 6K for their bigger cameras like the C500 II and FX9, while the C70, C300 III and FX6 are all still 4K. Even the Alexa LF is "only" 4.5K but it's IMAX-certified and used on huge movies like Dune and Spider-man No Way Home. And Canon and Sony don't want to cannibalize sales of cameras that are still selling strong by releasing something way better a year later. The C70 will ship until they've gotten back their ROI cost on it and then some, because they are a business. Full frame doesn't *really* matter much either. Shallow depth of field and better lowlight, which super 35 cameras can do really well already, and if you really want it you can use a speedbooster on the C70. In a lot of situations you don't want super shallow DOF anyway so super 35 sensors will never truly be obsolete.
@@seangentry2943 All of these factors you mention are true and valid, but I still believe we are on the verge of a lot of camera hardware updates. I understand the problem of working with large data files in an edit, but there is the possibility of editing with a proxy file. And agreed the higher pixel sensors are not always the best performing low light sensors. But with 8K, or 6K. if you miss frame or need to do some re-composing in post, you can move the image, push in, and you still have decent resolution, that I am certain will same time and money on a lot of productions. Also these new sensors which are stacked with higher read rates are close to performing like a global shutter, which again will save a lot of action shoots. I believe the new mirrorless cameras are already taking sales away from the current line of cinema cameras, The Sony FX3 is basically a re-packaged A7SIII, the FX6 is using AF from the Alpha line, the mirrorless cameras can easily fill the role of a crash camera in action sequences, especially where size and weight are an issue. I have heard many times Arri's statement that the quality of the pixel and color management trumps high pixel count and poorer color management and poorer dynamic range. But the new technologies in mirrorless cameras I believe ae going to be irresistible even for the camera makers to use in their cinema lines. Sony's Venice II is an 8.6K sensor, dual base ISO, 16 stops of dynamic range, 50 megapixels. I do not see why other than convention Sony will not add AF and IBIS to Venice as they have added it to the FX3.
The difference is the sensor size and noise-level. (Full-Fame vs Cropped). I actually guessed the reverse for the cameras as cyan-green makes me nauseous. 🤢🤢🤢🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮
Sure these look okay until you test them against the iphone 13 and then it's why bother with expensive cameras. Anybody can buy an iphone with it's pen hole lens and software bokeh magic and then slap some instagram filters on it and done. And for only 5 grand with accessories like headphones, a charger, a case you could have iphones new cinema mode ready to go. But seriously a lot of cameras look good until you show the footage next to Arri footage. The highlight and shadow detail is insane.
I love the fact, that affordable (or almost affordable) cameras have gotten so good. Still i like the fact, that there is something about productions with high end cameras. I get to be surprised that it was „just“ a C70 or so but then again amazed at productions shot on Arri, RED… Thanks for sharing this one and if you would find time for more comparisons like this, maybe with even more shots i would definitely enjoy them! 👊
For sure! Middle of the pack cinema cameras are so good now. I wish I could have tested more but we were so busy that day. Hopefully in the future though!
I so agree, they are getting much closer in terms of DR and a full rich image. You don't seen blown highlights nearly as much as you used to, or anything that gives away what it is as often. I find myself searching "what was X shot on" all the time ; ). After watching Dark I was floored with what the Arri could do.
I think you shouldn't get stuck in the camera comparisons realm. IMO Not that interested in it as it's already everywhere. You excel with real world job follows etc. Or just chatting about one camera's likes and dislikes / learnings w real world use. With the LF I'd say don't even try to compare it to a camera 1/10th of the price, it's been done, gets boring, it gets awkward in that "why are we even comparing these two".... You know it. Keep doing the other stuff. Let the UA-camrs that don't really do paid gigs in the real world stick to their Click Bait comparison vids. You're more than that mate. Much more. Cheers legend. Caine
Hey Caine thanks so much for the comment. I appreciate the fact that you see the distinction I am trying to make with real world job shadows and BTS videos instead of just clickbait “why did I buy this camera 🤭” videos. Funny enough, the only reason I compared these cameras is because the very next day I was using them on a shoot side by side and I wanted to get an idea of what I was working with for the image before I handed it over to post production. My main goal for the channel is to provide value through real world video productions, and as crazy as this one was, I did feel it could provide value to some. I have some more BTS videos coming next week and the week after though! Thanks for the channel support
I don't expect the C70 to be as good, but given how cameras have improved the last few years, it's still great to see how they compare in a head to head. Big jumps happen in the 3-5 year range, and these smaller cameras will probably get to where Arri is now. Still won't be the same tool or built for the same use. But seeing these comparisons help me to form an opinion on what feels most like a film to me. And yeah I too love his on set real world stuff. All good!
Quite honestly after watching your comparison videos I don’t really see a $75,000 better picture quality in the Alexa mini video. They just look a little bit different but I couldn’t say that one looks better than the other. It’s actually kind of sad that the lower priced entry-level professional cinema cameras are basically killing the professional cameras used on movie sets. Unless you are a Hollywood studio all your independent films, commercials or music videos are going to end up on UA-cam. By which time the exact image quality Is literally irrelevant because nobody can tell what is better than something else without seeing two images side-by-side. And even then, as in your test, you really can’t see a significant better quality. You can tell the video looks a little different but that’s about it.
Like I said, a lot depends on your AV gear, and its capability. Sometimes you need a very good monitor to realize the higher quality picture and sound. Something you expect from a $20 film, but may not be as interested in as a cinema quality commercial. Even so, it will get your attention, and you most certainly can tell the difference.
Don’t forget that you’re not just paying for image quality but camera ergonomics, I/o and workflow. Yes, the C70 is a great camera but it is a buzzkill in a professional environment. When working with professional crew theres a lot of little things about this camera that slow you down. Just last week I was working on a Microsoft job and (3) C70’s which was a struggle. 1. Our sound recordist wasn’t prepared to work with Mini XLR to send a mix to camera. That’s not a normal solution in professional film Productions. 2. The DP wanted 7-inch monitors mounted on the c70’s which caused issues as (1) of the 3 onboard monitors had the ability to loop out the HDMI signal so we could send to video village for client director. 3. You won’t see HDMI on a professional film set. 4. When shooting in C-Log 2/3 you have no way to send a rec.709 image through the HDMI. Do you want your Client or Director to be looking at a log image? Let alone your focus puller? 5. If you have a focus motor, Teradek Bolt TX or onboard monitor, be sure to have that C70 ready with a matrix plate and battery with d-tap splitter. Not really an issue when you have a Alexa Mini LF with Distrobox. I/O!!! It’s not all about image quality but is this camera built for professional film production? Again. Fantastic camera and I wish I owned one but not great for a traditional film set and workflow.
@@maurice_morales I understand what you're saying but everyone's situation is different. I'm a musician by profession and making music videos and films is my hobby. I'm not delivering for a client as I don't need one. My finished product goes on my UA-cam channel. So I can set up whatever working environment I want since I'm the boss. My production team is usually small and I never use focus puller. So I want a camera with great autofocus and reliable throughput. My films are sci-fi action and require a dynamic fluid set situation. I haven't decided what camera to upgrade to. I can afford an Arri but think it's a waste of money in light of cheaper great cameras like C70, C300, Sony Fx6, etc. Might just wait till Cannon releases C300S with 8K. The ability to zoom in in post has turned out to be super important.
@@atomicdynamo6062 Absolutely wait. Don't buy anything now before the release of all the new stuff which is scheduled to become available soon for comparison. The latest Canon cinema S line looks great (at least on paper). I just hope the prices remain competitive.
This test was to show how the lenses would look with canon L glass on the c70 and proper cinema glass on the mini LF. The majority of people using the c70 won’t use cinema glass. And honestly, this was really just a test i shot for myself and deduced to share because we had to use the c70 as an overhead cam the following day on a commercial production and wanted to see how they looked side by side before we did it
Thanks Griffin The magic in Alexa's picture Almost unattainable for any other camera Even the red camera, in my opinion, is a long way from Alexa It is not surprising that 95% of the world's cinema productions are shot with Alexa Even the image of the classic Alexa camera, which is more than ten years old It is still better than all the cameras on the market
C70 is honestly such a beast, I've used Arri cameras for a large majority of my working career but I've recently moved over to canon and I cant recommend it more for people who are open to doing all sorts of video work.
That Arri is worth the big dollar's i mean that image! Arri is the hasselblad of video. If i become a crypto millionaire i will buy it in one sec. To shoot youtube content with 😅😅😅😅🙏🏾✨👍🏽 love the channel! Maybe you could do some videos on color grading. Greeting from Bali
I have bought your C70 LUTs a couple of days ago and I really have to say they are a great. They use the tonal range of c-log2 much better that the Canon Conversion LUT, and also get rid of that reddish touch. I can highly recommend them, they are absolutely worth the money.
Thank you for the support and glad you are liking them!
Green-magenta shift was a dead giveaway - canons are notoriously magenta and Alexa is known for its green tint. With both images properly balanced it would be very hard to spot the difference, at least here on youtube.
I agree with you.
Even balanced it would be super easy - the focus falloff you get with the LF sensor is very distinctive
@@GriffinConway Come on :) Alexa is obviously cleaner and not so soapy. Thank you for this work, very helpful!
I don't know what color profile he used on canon, but i know for sure clog2 might have the best dynamic range but it doesn't have the best colors where you can actually say, canon colors. I don't know which log has a better colors if clog1 or clog3, but I'm sure it's one of those or you can use traditional neutral/standard color profile, which is actually known for the canon color science.
It would still be easy to see which is which
I was a full time editor at a commercial post house for 3 years where the majority of the footage we worked with was shot on Alexa Mini’s using Cooke lenses. It definitely spoils you.
The Alexa and Cooke combo is often used on HBO projects. We used that combo on a series pilot shot in NYC. :)
I’ve used that combo multiple times and love it
It was pretty easy to spot, but doing video as a side hustle, the C70 ticks a lot of boxes for me and would be far enough for me. Currently I only own a R6 and a R, but I also do a lot of photography. Since I switched to only using RF lenses, I really hope more options will come out for that mount.
For sure RF mount is great
Well, 2 years later and canon finally got a FF RF true cinema camera. The R5c is truly an epic camera for many reasons, it also has a lot of little things that really hold it back. Then again, it’s a hybrid camera at heart, not a dedicated Cinema camera. For what it does do, it’s damn impressive. The C400 sure seems like a really solid camera. The only thing not mentioned and I think would’ve been an added strong feature would be 32-bit float for the audio inputs.
Hey Griffin, can you do a test that uses the same lens on both cameras? I think a huge reason for the quality difference is actually the glass you put in front of the sensor. If you have two different lenses, it will give you two vastly different looks. Even the 24mm in the Alexa won't look nearly as good since it's just Canon glass
He probably didn’t have a adapter available. The GL Optics Leica R is likely PL and the Canon 24L being likely EF.
The Canons L’s are pretty sharp, but I get what you’re saying, having 2 different glass don’t really work when comparing.
I had an adapter but the problem would be I couldn’t use the speed booster on the c70 with the PL mount GL Optics, so the field of view would be way different.
I have both, and they're both incredible cameras. I use C70's for documentary coverage and gimbal shots, and the Mini LF for everything else.
I'm impressed that C70 is captures such a high quality image in Pro Res at this price point.
It’s a great camera for sure
The C70 actually does 9:16 pretty well. There's the side thread for mounting it vertically and you can rotate the menus so that they work in that mode. The Arri sensor is of course gorgeous and screams 'Hollywood'. The RED Monstro/Raptor is actually sharper though and is becoming the de-facto 'Netflix look' (eg. Squid Games to be topical)
Watching squid games right now and it definitely has that sharp and saturated colors characteristic of reds. 9:16 on c70 is actually great though
you should have had the same glass on both cameras... makes a big difference.
Nothing is going to save the C70 from an Alexa beating. Glass doesn't make that much of a difference
@@dna8269 glass actually makes all the difference.
Glass makes a different, but its not nearly as significant as focal length.
Same glass on the camera is a good test as well and will definitely make them look more similar, but that wasn’t my goal. I wanted to put two cameras side by side, not color matched, and with glass that they would typically be run with
@@dna8269 what a noob thing to say. Glass makes all the difference, that's a known fact amongst experienced filmmakers.
It doesn't really make sense to show a bunch of shots that are unmatched since it would be trivial to make them look closer to each other with some basic grading or just the right LUT anyway. I'm more interested in how close the c70 with an clog2 to arri709 conversion lut looks compared to the miLF in rec709 ideally on the same lens and everything. Or however they are matched it would be most useful to see all the shots matched and normalized. Who cares how they look when the image is 3stops too dark or 3stops too bright, no one would ever deliver that, so what's more useful is how does it look when it's under/overexposed and normalized?
Completely wrong. It's way more useful to present shots that are *UNTOUCHED* to be able to tell what camera/sensor is producing which kind of image rather than slapping on some "grading/CC" (which is hiiiiiiiighly subjective and can completely alter the differences in the sensors).
I mean you could ask Conway if he could think about sharing/uploading the recorded material seperately so you could try to invest your time to match up the clips to get answers to your thoughts.
The under- and overexposures are extremely helpful in figuring out the capabilities of a sensor. Of course nobody would deliver like that but it's good to know how far you could theoretically go if you use the showcased camera/sensor in extreme situations in your own workflow. Especially if you rent them. Sometimes prep-day isn't enough time to figure stuff like this out. You are way too busy testing dozens of other important things regarding the project.
@@AtillaLifeson problem is you can't tell how far you can go since you wouldn't deliver images like that. Unless you match the footage and normalize exposure you are just trying to judge noise that's hidden in a very compressed part of the response curve. Perception of noise and detail in general is highly dependent on contrast and so it's very difficult to see anything hidden in dark shadows unless you push it up, which is what you'd probably be doing if you were actually exposing like that anyway since it's rare you'd deliver images that are so dark you can't discern any detail and hides any noise in that detail.
Also "untouched" is meaningless when comparing 2 different cameras since the curves are always touched by the arbitrary log curve and the arbitrary rec709 look that specific to the manufacturer or whatever transform you're looking at by default. Any differences you see are just a difference in log or default look, both things that are normalized away with a click of a button in post, so they are generally not that meaningful to compare unless you are specifically comparing one manufacturers' default curve to another's which are often designed not with that particular camera in mind but several of the manufacturer's previous cameras.
I am grateful for your videos. In a pinch of I shot some pick ups, B-roll with C-70, would it pass to be cut into a feature shot on Alexa mini? Exterior drive by’s with snow, early day late day… snow… lower light… it's a gritty film anyway… thanks
Such a cool thing to see for someone who will never get their hands on an ARRI.
Duuuuuude never say never!
This is how I feel when I watch all of your awesome film camera videos 😄 if you’re ever in Orange County we should meet up and shoot
Awesome video Griffin!
I haven’t touched an Alexa yet! I did a shoot with the C70 and the RED Monstro 8k and I could definitely tell the difference between operating and post production. I feel like I could use the C70 for any shoot under the sun, but if I want to know I’m getting the best quality possible, I would definitely rent something like a Red Monstro or Alexa mini.
I’m such a fan of Red’s post production workflow. And I would use it for big productions just because I know it’s going to be easy to work with and there won’t be any surprises.
What do you think the difference is between the Arri workflow and the RED workflow?
In terms of Quality they seem to be similar, but I think what we see in colour comparison that's beyond different, I was considering if C70 has a IR pollution issue like BMPCC, I'd like to see a video on that.
It does not.
The c70 doesn’t have IR pollution. It’s just the canon colors leaning more magenta with the stock luts. If you check the part where I reveal which camera is which you can see that with my GC lut it doesn’t look so magenta
Test note: both cameras matched exposure. White balance at 5600k +0 tint. Canon 24mm 1.4L lens on the c70, GL Optics Leica R 28mm on the mini LF.
Oh truee, 🤯 could you pin that test note Griffin?😊 just so others know that sooner…I can imagine people assuming you didn’t WB the ‘correctly’
Hey Grif, one time can you do a comparisson that will shock ppl, arri Master Primes vs some L lenses and show people why cinematographers care more about glass than cameras. that would be dope.
I guessed Alexa rights away with its slightly green but pleasing colors. Also it did a way better job when underexposed
Just that lens alone makes a pretty big difference, that actually might have contributed a lot to the difference in image. That Leica in particular is like a Cooke prime or something of that tier
The magic of the arri the people aren’t realizing isn’t the chip or the lens. It’s the way it handles the motion. Just look at the leaves blowing in the background.
It's all decreasing margins from the c500/fx7 up. Unless you absolutely need that extra 'it' factor, they are all very capable. In saying that though, you can just tell the Alexa can make the darkest of nights look like daytime if it needs to!
That latitude is one of many benefits you get in the more expensive camera. As expensive as the Alexa is, it only a small fraction of the multi-million dollar budget of the films it can be used to create. These filmmakers can't afford to to have cameras that malfunctions.
They are both great cameras for sure, and as Krane mentioned they are for different groups of people.
I actually can’t believe the difference between the two. Was not expecting that!
Ya it was way different for sure
Great video. I agree. There are horses for courses and cameras for assignments. Would I love to have an Alexa Mini? Ah, yeah. It's a lot of money. I just finished a job where A camera was a Sony Venice 2 kitted out with Zeiss prime lenses. B camera was my Canon C70 with RF glass. The editor said the C70 footage held up real well.
Does the LF's white balance seem kind of off? Were they at the same wb settings?
Was also hoping to see the 3 stops over and 2 stops under brought to the correct exposure to get a feel of the dynamic range. Great video!
I imagine that's down to the ND filters used.
They seemed way off
That's ARRI's color science and Canon's magenta cast for you
I wonder how the DR between the two compare?
@@wcsdiaries Alexa would be better in highlights and shadows
Great video Griffin! It's great how you show how powerful an entry level cinema camera like the C70 is. I love mine so far!
Awesome! Glad you are loving it!
Hey Griffin, thanks for the review, I am a 6K PRO user, but I've been looking at the Canon C70 for some time now, simply because of the configuration and physical arrangement, but I'm having a bit of trouble deciding as I don't find the image quality superior to the 6K PRO, please correct me if I am wrong, but it seems that the C70 was a bit out of focus? Or the ALEXA MINI LF is just that good that makes every camera look inferior?
Both are great and I bought both of them with my own money. Different tools for different jobs. Image quality is similar and the c70 has a few more features. Here’s my full thoughts: ua-cam.com/video/ZKvi3o04PdY/v-deo.html
Curious...is the joystick a hair unresponsive sometimes? Like you move it to the right and it won't go right until you move it to the right again
Yep I hate that. It’s got better over time on mine though
@@GriffinConway That's good to know. So just got to work it in.
Btween Komodo, C70 and ursa mini 12k - which one would you say is better for image quality?
Oh boy, can’t wait for that C70 vs FX6 video
Yeah, the FX6 has that expensive look... It would be super hard to see the difference between Alexa and FX6 with graded footage and using the same lens. There would even be a significant edge to the FX6 in low light.
The c70 Vs fx3 video on my channel shows the image quality difference between the two cameras. But ya I’m looking forward to that one too
Griffin: I'm a small youtuber making videos with the A7III and now the R5/R6...dreaming of a Red or Arri...to make my videos! Even though the R5 is way overkill. Love your uploads.
Thanks for the support. A7 iii and R5 / R6 combo is still great. Keep it up!
That Alexa look is something special - It almost feels like what Hasselblad does in the stills world to me - Ultra expensive but my soul won't rest until I have one someday. I want one more than I want a house or a nice car. Not to knock the C70 in any way, at its price point I think it's a very special tool and I dream of owning one for one-man run n gun work like doccies and corporate vids. But I'm only starting out, so I'm saving up for a BMPCC 6K pro.
Thanks for sharing.
We’ll I think I only really need one kidney…..
The 6k pro is such a great camera I love mine
Great! i was looking forward to this. I can't wait to watch it.
Awesome!
Great presentation as usual!
Sorry, but it just makes no sense to me comparing asthetics, color etc. of different cameras without using the same lens. The lens has such a great impact on the final image.
I agree with you. My goal for this test was to show two cameras that I was actually using side by side for an actual commercial set. We needed one shot in 120p and wanted to see if we could make it close enough to the mini lf so that’s why we shot it the way we did
yeah, figured camera A was the C70 because the image was softer, and then the magenta tint just kind of confirmed it.
Ya the magenta tint was a giveaway for sure
Probably going to upgrade to a C70 once I get the funds, then switch to RF glass, and I'll have the R6 as a second. Shooting mostly weddings and can't have gear capabilities get in my way, plus the dynamic range of cinema cameras just looks so much better and softer than hybrid cameras.
C70 / R6 combo for weddings would be killer
Great video. Not sure I'll ever work with an Arri Alexa but I enjoyed the comparison you did. Would love to shadow you for a day to see your workflow.
Hit me up on IG if you want to come out. We’ll try to make it happen
I guessed the A/B right. Sure the Alexa has the show factor but what counts in the end is the resutls you get for the customer.
That’s true! Thanks for watching
Another great video and I definitely wanted to see this comparison, was same lens on both cams?
Hey Kamal! Thanks bro. This one I used canon L glass on the c70 and Leica r lenses on the mini LF. I meant to show how they look different basically, instead of trying to make them look the same
Well that was a beating! Does the C70 need additional IR filtration or something?
It’s just the lut that was used. The canon luts are super magenta
So cool! Any R3 videos coming soon perchance? Would love to see how it stacks up against the C70!
My next video is my thoughts on the r3
Nice review of what appears to be a superbly good lens!
I recently got a C70, dream camera for me coming from DSLR filmmaking. Love your content and your love for the camera.
Cheers!
Glad you are liking the c70! It’s such a great camera
Which song from Music Bed did you use at around the 2min mark? Great vibe. Great comp vid.
Thank you! It was by Utah (I think the song was called seeds). Musicbed.con
@@GriffinConway appreciate that bro! Blessings.
Obviously you had very little time to shoot this comparison (which you said), but I would argue that a big component of the image quality difference can be attributed to the glass on each camera. The Alexa with the high end cinema glass you're using is absolutely going to beat the c70 with a canon L photo lens. That being said, even with those things noted, the c70 definitely holds it own for sure!
Leica R is an old stills lens, rehoused by GL Optics in this case. It's vintage, but still much better than a modern Canon lens. The color difference you can spot here is mostly due to the FSND filtration used in Alexa - thus less infrared pollution in the image overall. Canon has good IR cut (see Hurlbut comparison between Red MX and Canon C-series), but it does seem in C70 it's not a full-spectrum filtration, or just the color science of Canon. C70 is a remarkably good all-rounder, wish it had SDI though.
@@alexlubensky Genuine question: what specifically about the Leica R makes it much better than a modern Canon lens? Comparing them on the same camera seems to be very minimal differences (Matteo Bertoli's 18-35 vs Leica R test for example), at least to my eye. Could you please elaborate more?
@@dna8269 Canon L's degrade over time of use due to various plastic elements inside, especially under heavy use. It varies from lens to lens, and vastly depends on the screen size you aim to shoot for. Round lenses can look really similar on smaller screens, but even on a big TV you'll see lots of stuff happening regarding out of focus rendition, overall contrast, flaring, sharpness, color rendition and so on. Also, R series has a rather long time-span regarding production, so the coatings can be rather different from lens to lens. Basically R's are a proper manual lens design by german manufacturer, while L's are built for AF and mass-market, just a different aim and a market. It's much easier to compare R's to FD's than to L's. Each lens out there has a space for it, I'd say they are just different. I would prefer R's to L's any day, because of the R's character and overall look. In modern world I'd say there's no "best" lens, but the one that ticks all the boxes for you.
The biggest difference between the cameras in terms of image quality (excluding the obvious color difference) is the highlight retention in the mini LF and also the sensor size. It was definitely a short test but maybe I’ll do more in the future
@@dna8269 to ad what A L said below, the Leica do a lovely flare to them and you'll see it used often in travel and cooking shows, like Chef's table.
Great video bro!! 🤟
Thanks my bro!
Your videos and presentations are so genuine. We appreciate it. Hoping the wedding went well. thanks Martin (Coming from the Canon XF305/605/705 world but about to purchase a C70)
The difference in the image is pretty insane, the Canon didn’t even come close. I immediately knew which was which - I expected it to be much closer actually, pretty surprising
This is what happens when people show the actual results and don’t try to make them look the same for UA-cam haha
ehm, I see way more difference in lens than in camera with the comparison. This sounded like a big commercial for the Alexa Mini to get people to dump money on it, or to validate his own purchase. Many cameras have 14 stops of dynamic range for crazy lighting, or pretty close to it, like the S5 has 13-14 stops and many others. Again, these comparisons show off the difference in lens quality and of course post processing.
But I own the c70 not the Alexa 😂
@@GriffinConway Doesn't change the facts. More time spent on valid comparison samples, accounting for crop factor and white balance could have helped a little :)
We shoot musicvideos with the mini lf. The Image ist great and i like the color. The 2k resuluton or is much Cleaner than a lot of 4k Images of other other cameras.
Mini lf is my favorite image out of any camera
Wow I thought this was gonna be a video showing how close cheaper cinema cameras can get… but wow that arri CRAZY
That’s a camera package you hire and bill to clients. Alexa LF + set of primes + lighting + audio + accessories etc …..
Ya it’s way different for sure especially with different lenses and not color matched
I've watch all your videos on the C70 and I've not heard you or any one else say they've had this problem. Do you ever get a Buffer Overflow Recording Has Stopped when shooting in S&F mode 120/23.976? I get this message after recording for about 10 seconds. Sometimes the camera locks up and I has to power it off then back on. I'm using Pro Grade 25GB V90 cards I've already replaced them thinking they were bad but the new cards are doing the same thing. Of all the UA-cam videos I've watched on this camera I've not seen one person talking about the camera doing this when recording in 120 slow motion. Oddly enough it was happening every time I was filming the trees in my backyard. When I moved away from the tree it worked but when I pointed the camera up in the tree at 24mm it would do it every time. This happens on both cards as well. Any suggestions or thoughts?
I use Sandisk uhs-ii v90 cards in 128gb size and have shot tons of 120p without issue
It seems like that C70 have infrared polution in image, maybe it would look morelike Alexa if you put the filter on C70
I wonder
Check out the part where I reveal which camera is which and then show my GC lit on the c70. It doesn’t look as magenta. The c70 doesn’t have IR pollution
I used to be perfectly happy with run and gun-friendly cameras until I got to shoot on RED and grade Alexa footage. I've been ruined ever since, no joke. Anything less than the image quality from those cameras doesn't feel as enjoyable to shoot with. It's crazy.
Could immediately tell which was the Alexa. That IQ is mind blowing and just "feels like a movie" SOOC.
It was very easy to see tho. Huge magenta cast on the Canon
Ya the Alexa is special for sure and just looks like what we are used to seeing in movies
The guy in the frame is positioned differently which gives Alexa a better overall impression. The depth of field softening looks better in Alexa; however, Canon with fine lenses may be able to achieve the same results. Canon tends to add some extra reds which can be fixed in the settings. The details in Alexa are obviously finer. However, it may not add any value to the footage because nobody likes their real skin texture or other unnecessary details exposed. People want a smoother look in films. Canon R5C has a better potential.
Great video Griffin and exactly on point - LOve the Alexa (hire cam for me) but most of my work is on the C70 or a C300 mkII for documentary making. High end jobs the Alexa is the beast for sure. Keep up the excellent work bro!
Definitely! In the same boat as you
Not a fair comparison, much like a Cadillac vs Toyota Corolla..IMO, Canon C70 is just not that good at all, even on its own. I'd say BMPCC would hold up much better against ARRI, but only in a color department. There's simply no contest with ARRI.
I was wondering about BMPCC too. I'd love to see a comparison of BMPCC6K vs Alexa with the same glass since it's chosen by some as a B-cam to the Alexa on smaller productions
:04 I agree with you haha. I know it’s not a fair test, it’s not meant to be. It was meant just show the two cameras in a simple scene
The way an Arri makes objects look when it's actually in motion is another major factor in the quality which is not really shown in this video.
Dude! Always love you videos! Watching on my phone I can’t really tell the difference, watching on my monitor is where I can see more of a difference even through YT compression. However, both footage looks amazing and I honestly, and this maybe blasphemous prefer the C70 footage! Awesome video dude!
Even on a phone with YT compression I could tell the difference. I didn’t think it would be so different, but it’s there and you can tell.
@@damiendehorn6350 my eyes are definitely not as good as yours!
@@AlpacoFilms Don't know about that, but definitely visible on a iphone 12 pro screen.
@@damiendehorn6350 well, I have a older Xr. And I also have it set to night mode when I watched it. The only thing I was able to see was the composition and the out of focus area that were different. But, also my eyes are really just not very great!
Thanks for the support and for watching!
This video share alot of truth. I got a Varicam LT and a Panasonic S1H. When i'm talking to other filmakers that the size and the ''wow'' factor plays big role for your clients and they believe that you can do it because you own a big camera they always trash me. They don't get it. I showed up in a very tiny production with my S1H and everyone thought it's a photo camera. Now,everytime i have a fairly good client i always go with both but i'm using the S1H,you can tell that they believe in you by just showing off gear. It's unfortunate but very true. Keep these mate, Subscribed !
How do you like the S1H compared to Varicam when it comes to motion and caddice? A lot of these newer cameras have plenty of dynamic range but Canon and Sony (minus the Venice) really struggle with motion and colors. For commercial work they are good, but not narrative as much. I have been looking at a S1H to B cam with a LF, but I have never tried one. True filmic quality at all with motion and highlight rolloff? Cheers my friend!
Awesome video mate! Obviously Alexa is clearly the winner but probably not 10 times better.
PS Can you review that Bronco haha ?! Love this car! :)
Haha thanks Flo! I think I will incorporate it in to a video soon 😄 maybe a car rigging video or something like that, but I love it too. So much fun.
so at 1:54 i was convinced A was the Alexa because the building over the fence was not blown out like in B. I am either bias to my c70 or just have a ways to go in seeing quality lol
It seems the framing is such that the building in B on the right is out of frame.
Hey Fraser! If you see the waveform in premiere the mini LF actually has crazy good highlight retention. Way better than the c70 (and probably the best out of any cinema camera I have tested).
What Gimbal were you using with your C70?
Ronin s
not the same lens not the same compression and white balance is off i wish for better better test and maybe better lut like phantom and also compare with c500 :)
Sorry you lost me when I noticed the Bronco parked behind you! 😂
Haha love the bronco
I was really hoping cam B was the C70. 😜
Haha I thought they both did pretty well but ya the Alexa is special
This comparison video leaves a lot to be desired. Would of liked to have reviewed the scenes matched both in terms of color and DOF. I imagine the only difference in the end would be dynamic range.
Unfortunately since I just do youtube as my hobby and I had to prep for my actual commercial production I had the next day I couldn’t test everything. I would have liked to test more as well. Maybe in the future though!
Totally guessed it!
Nice! What gave it away for you?
@@GriffinConway the color lol
I guessed which camera was which, but both images were great. Definitely think arri items are overpriced. $7500?
#Griffin about C500MARKII vs ALEXA MINI LF
I will try to do this one next time I have the camera
great video bro
Thank you!
이번엔 맞추기 너무 쉬웠습니다 XD 다이나믹레인지의 차이는 눈에 띄네요
Late to the party, sorry I missed this before Grif. As always love the content and the stories that go with it, making friends thanks to a camera hahaha. Awesome! I have seen some really impressive footage come off the C70 and it's an amazing little package. This simple comparison though shows how the larger sensor has more separation of subject to background in a distance like above and a bit wider. I'd guess this is what cinematographers mean when they say a lens has a more 3 dimensional quality. I think that this separation is one of the reasons many people are drawn to anamorphics. A larger sensor can give you more of that feel with sphericals. As you said, both great tools. Thanks for another good one brother.
Thanks so much for watching Chris!
I prefer the skintone coming from the C70. Alexa's on these footages look too green
Just goes to show style choice is personal! I think it depends on the project
Thank u ,, need more
🙌🙌
Please use the same glass / lut next time :)
Makes no sense to use the same lut for completely different cameras. What he probably should have done is grade it manually
@@Aviciiz true, but alexa default luts work very well with clog2 footage
@@timwangyc I don't believe c70 has clog 2? I could be wrong though.
@@edpr2244 it does! ✌️✌️just no raw
@@edpr2244 it certainly does. I (pretty much) use nothing else
I love the C70, especially for the price.
Same!
Another thing in my opinion is that most people watching UA-cam for independent films or music videos are more concerned with seeing the content, not necessarily the image quality. As long as it looks good enough people are really concerned with content. Who cares if the picture quality is fantastic if the movie story sucks or the music video has a boring song. I don’t think people go to UA-cam to see movies because they want to see great image quality. They want to see an interesting story. Testing these modern cameras is literally splitting hairs. All the cameras are so good it really doesn’t matter. Just tell a good story. People won’t be concerned with which camera you used. It’s like those audiophiles that buy thousand dollar turn tables and play back a vinyl album hoping to hear some extra decibel of quality. Ultimately if you like the song it’ll sound just as good to you on an MP3 player as it does on a fantastic stereo system. Because whats important is the song content and the singer’s voice, not necessarily the fantastic recording quality. All the Beatles songs were recorded on analog reel to reel tapes but they still sound fantastic to this day.
I'm sorry, but nothing could be further from the true. Sure, your comment about a good story being paramount is what's most important. But that doesn't mean people still don't want to see a high-quality picture. If it were otherwise, nobody would be buying 4k TVs.
Its the same with high-quality audio equipment. The better your equipment, the more detail you'll get from your recording. And sound engineer spend an awful lot of time to make their work stand out.
@@krane15 I would agree with all you said except that my comment was referring to video ending up on UA-cam- not on people's 4K TV. Of course if you're a Hollywood producer and your stuff is on the big screen or TV then picture quality is paramount. But if you're an independent filmmaker and your 45 minute film will spend its whole life on UA-cam then that fantastic footage from a $75,000 camera will not really shine through. It might to some degree but it's not worth the money compared to how much better it appears on UA-cam. I know from experience. I shot a music video in a professional green screen studio using Sony FS7. That's a $13,000 camera. Later during editing realized that some shots had to be redone. So I used a Lumix FZ2500 and a home green screen studio. After spliced together and tweaked you could not distinguish between what was shot with the FS7 and what was shot with the FZ2500. Go figure. A $1,500 dollar camera did as good a job as a $13,000 dollar camera. I'm not saying we shouldn't strive to have the best camera money can buy. But I think the camera you buy should be chosen in the light of where people will view your footage. If it's on UA-cam it hardly matters what you use. All the modern cameras are really good. Reasonably good is good enough. Nobody chooses to watch a movie based on how good the picture looks. If the story and acting is bad everyone will stop watching even if it was shot on Panavision Millennium DXL2. Just take a look at Wonder Woman....
@@atomicdynamo6062 People notice picture quality, it's just subconscious. ie: "wow that looks like a movie" is the type of feedback you'll hear rather than "oh wow that dynamic range is amazing!" Our brains know what a blockbuster look looks like, even if we don't express it in technical terms. All else being equal (lighting etc) a certain look to the footage can pull you out of a story even if it's compelling. It's cool right now to say, "story is king! A great story will captivate even on an iphone!" but it's not entirely true.
I recently watched a short film with a friend and the story was very good, but his only comment at the end was, "that looked so "artificial" for some reason." The film was shot on Sony with g-master glass, so what he was referring to was the digital look of Sony footage versus the more filmic Alexa with Cooke glass or whatever.
People notice. On the DP side, it can be very demotivating to shoot with a camera/glass that isn't producing the look you want, and vice versa.
@@dna8269 It's true that some things are noticeable. But not so much on UA-cam which is what I was talking about. The modern cinema cameras are all so good you can hardly tell the difference between them. Just look at the myriad of tests. The image quality is so similar It's just about irrelevant. If there is a big difference between all these cameras it is things like autofocus and ease of use/convenience. A good autofocus will make a camera that much better. Quality of image would be very noticeable between say a1985 Betamovie camera and today's C70. But the difference between a C70 and an Arri Alexa is pretty small especially on UA-cam.
There's a test on UA-cam between a C200 and an Arri Alexa. After adjustment the C200 image looked pretty close to the Arri footage. But the price difference between the two cameras is huge.
big difference shooting L-glass versus leica r optics!
Ya I agree. It was already a pretty unfair comparison so I figured I would just show it how many people will use it (just with canon L glass)
I might be wrong but I think the entire cinema camera market is about to be shaken up with advances like full frame high megapixel stacked sensors available in hybrid cameras that can shoot raw, and do at least 4K 120 not cropped. If you do not need the cinema camera to do your audio other than a scratch track then buying a camera with no image stabilization that requires 3 operators is one kind of shoot, but the smaller camera that has the advanced image capabilities can be flown on a light crane, or single operator operated opens up a lot of possibilities. Right now, sure the Cannon Cinema cameras are very good, but I think they are all about to become obsolete and very soon, by the next generation of enhanced sensor camera technology that is in the hybrid cameras now. I can not see buying a C70 today given the sensor size, when it seems obvious it will be superseded very soon, same for the C300, C500. If you need an Alexa you can rent it.
Cinema cameras with bigger bodies have better heat management and support larger batteries than mirrorless cams, and they also don't need an external recorder for RAW like lots of mirrorless cams still do. If you need to shoot for hours at a time, having an A-cam at least that isn't going to overheat or chew threw 20 batteries is worth the extra bulk. I would never giver up my C100 for a mirrorless with 10x better image but without all the ergonomic benefits of the bigger body.
@@seangentry2943 That makes a lot of sense, the point I wanted to make in my post is that with the new, faster, high density stacked image sensors, and with IBIS, I expect to see a lot of new Cinema models soon, based on the technologies now in the newer mirrorless designs. And my understanding is that not all current Cinema will run all day on one small battery, that does not seem to be the case. So I wonder given a very good hand held cinema camera like the FX6, or FX3 full frame sensor, light, small, good ventilation, will Sony wait three years to update those relatively new models with a higher density stacked sensor and will they introduce IBIS and advanced AF to that platform? For Cannon, its really the same possibility, the EOS R3, how hard would it be for Canon to update the C70 with the R3 sensor, with advanced AF, vastly improved rolling shutter, etc.
@@leschwartz Well there are some reasons. Higher density sensors are nice until you look at the data rates you get by shooting in 6K, 8K, 10K, etc at high bitrates (or even RAW) for hours and hours a day. Canon and Sony have saved 6K for their bigger cameras like the C500 II and FX9, while the C70, C300 III and FX6 are all still 4K. Even the Alexa LF is "only" 4.5K but it's IMAX-certified and used on huge movies like Dune and Spider-man No Way Home.
And Canon and Sony don't want to cannibalize sales of cameras that are still selling strong by releasing something way better a year later. The C70 will ship until they've gotten back their ROI cost on it and then some, because they are a business.
Full frame doesn't *really* matter much either. Shallow depth of field and better lowlight, which super 35 cameras can do really well already, and if you really want it you can use a speedbooster on the C70. In a lot of situations you don't want super shallow DOF anyway so super 35 sensors will never truly be obsolete.
@@seangentry2943 All of these factors you mention are true and valid, but I still believe we are on the verge of a lot of camera hardware updates. I understand the problem of working with large data files in an edit, but there is the possibility of editing with a proxy file. And agreed the higher pixel sensors are not always the best performing low light sensors. But with 8K, or 6K. if you miss frame or need to do some re-composing in post, you can move the image, push in, and you still have decent resolution, that I am certain will same time and money on a lot of productions. Also these new sensors which are stacked with higher read rates are close to performing like a global shutter, which again will save a lot of action shoots. I believe the new mirrorless cameras are already taking sales away from the current line of cinema cameras, The Sony FX3 is basically a re-packaged A7SIII, the FX6 is using AF from the Alpha line, the mirrorless cameras can easily fill the role of a crash camera in action sequences, especially where size and weight are an issue. I have heard many times Arri's statement that the quality of the pixel and color management trumps high pixel count and poorer color management and poorer dynamic range. But the new technologies in mirrorless cameras I believe ae going to be irresistible even for the camera makers to use in their cinema lines. Sony's Venice II is an 8.6K sensor, dual base ISO, 16 stops of dynamic range, 50 megapixels. I do not see why other than convention Sony will not add AF and IBIS to Venice as they have added it to the FX3.
There is only one true champion.
Haha true
The difference is the sensor size and noise-level. (Full-Fame vs Cropped). I actually guessed the reverse for the cameras as cyan-green makes me nauseous. 🤢🤢🤢🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮
I used the speedbooster so the sensor size difference wasn’t as apparent
It is just so obvious. The Alexa looks so good
Ya it looks great for sure
Sure these look okay until you test them against the iphone 13 and then it's why bother with expensive cameras. Anybody can buy an iphone with it's pen hole lens and software bokeh magic and then slap some instagram filters on it and done. And for only 5 grand with accessories like headphones, a charger, a case you could have iphones new cinema mode ready to go.
But seriously a lot of cameras look good until you show the footage next to Arri footage. The highlight and shadow detail is insane.
Obviously the Alexa MI-LF is my choice
Haha same if money wasn’t an issue
I love the fact, that affordable (or almost affordable) cameras have gotten so good. Still i like the fact, that there is something about productions with high end cameras. I get to be surprised that it was „just“ a C70 or so but then again amazed at productions shot on Arri, RED…
Thanks for sharing this one and if you would find time for more comparisons like this, maybe with even more shots i would definitely enjoy them! 👊
For sure! Middle of the pack cinema cameras are so good now. I wish I could have tested more but we were so busy that day. Hopefully in the future though!
I so agree, they are getting much closer in terms of DR and a full rich image. You don't seen blown highlights nearly as much as you used to, or anything that gives away what it is as often. I find myself searching "what was X shot on" all the time ; ). After watching Dark I was floored with what the Arri could do.
I think you shouldn't get stuck in the camera comparisons realm. IMO Not that interested in it as it's already everywhere. You excel with real world job follows etc. Or just chatting about one camera's likes and dislikes / learnings w real world use. With the LF I'd say don't even try to compare it to a camera 1/10th of the price, it's been done, gets boring, it gets awkward in that "why are we even comparing these two".... You know it.
Keep doing the other stuff. Let the UA-camrs that don't really do paid gigs in the real world stick to their Click Bait comparison vids. You're more than that mate. Much more.
Cheers legend.
Caine
Hey Caine thanks so much for the comment. I appreciate the fact that you see the distinction I am trying to make with real world job shadows and BTS videos instead of just clickbait “why did I buy this camera 🤭” videos. Funny enough, the only reason I compared these cameras is because the very next day I was using them on a shoot side by side and I wanted to get an idea of what I was working with for the image before I handed it over to post production. My main goal for the channel is to provide value through real world video productions, and as crazy as this one was, I did feel it could provide value to some. I have some more BTS videos coming next week and the week after though! Thanks for the channel support
I don't expect the C70 to be as good, but given how cameras have improved the last few years, it's still great to see how they compare in a head to head. Big jumps happen in the 3-5 year range, and these smaller cameras will probably get to where Arri is now. Still won't be the same tool or built for the same use. But seeing these comparisons help me to form an opinion on what feels most like a film to me. And yeah I too love his on set real world stuff. All good!
If I was going to shoot 2 stops underexposed, I guess I'd settle for the C70 :))
which camera is which? is that hard to write? wtf
I would say the difference is not mind blowing but and least mind pleasing 😅
Haha for sure
In a world where people compare damn phones with cameras this is a cool comparison
Haha thank you
Nice LUT
Thank you!
Alexa mini lf - B
Canon C70 - A
You are the pro, but C70 colors > Alexa for me.
My preference is Alexa, but c70 is still incredible and it costs about 70k less lol
arri is more natural for pixel movement, less noises
Interesting
Quite honestly after watching your comparison videos I don’t really see a $75,000 better picture quality in the Alexa mini video. They just look a little bit different but I couldn’t say that one looks better than the other. It’s actually kind of sad that the lower priced entry-level professional cinema cameras are basically killing the professional cameras used on movie sets. Unless you are a Hollywood studio all your independent films, commercials or music videos are going to end up on UA-cam. By which time the exact image quality Is literally irrelevant because nobody can tell what is better than something else without seeing two images side-by-side. And even then, as in your test, you really can’t see a significant better quality. You can tell the video looks a little different but that’s about it.
Like I said, a lot depends on your AV gear, and its capability. Sometimes you need a very good monitor to realize the higher quality picture and sound. Something you expect from a $20 film, but may not be as interested in as a cinema quality commercial. Even so, it will get your attention, and you most certainly can tell the difference.
Don’t forget that you’re not just paying for image quality but camera ergonomics, I/o and workflow. Yes, the C70 is a great camera but it is a buzzkill in a professional environment.
When working with professional crew theres a lot of little things about this camera that slow you down.
Just last week I was working on a Microsoft job and (3) C70’s which was a struggle.
1. Our sound recordist wasn’t prepared to work with Mini XLR to send a mix to camera. That’s not a normal solution in professional film Productions.
2. The DP wanted 7-inch monitors mounted on the c70’s which caused issues as (1) of the 3 onboard monitors had the ability to loop out the HDMI signal so we could send to video village for client director.
3. You won’t see HDMI on a professional film set.
4. When shooting in C-Log 2/3 you have no way to send a rec.709 image through the HDMI. Do you want your Client or Director to be looking at a log image? Let alone your focus puller?
5. If you have a focus motor, Teradek Bolt TX or onboard monitor, be sure to have that C70 ready with a matrix plate and battery with d-tap splitter. Not really an issue when you have a Alexa Mini LF with Distrobox. I/O!!!
It’s not all about image quality but is this camera built for professional film production?
Again. Fantastic camera and I wish I owned one but not great for a traditional film set and workflow.
@@maurice_morales I understand what you're saying but everyone's situation is different. I'm a musician by profession and making music videos and films is my hobby. I'm not delivering for a client as I don't need one. My finished product goes on my UA-cam channel. So I can set up whatever working environment I want since I'm the boss. My production team is usually small and I never use focus puller. So I want a camera with great autofocus and reliable throughput. My films are sci-fi action and require a dynamic fluid set situation. I haven't decided what camera to upgrade to. I can afford an Arri but think it's a waste of money in light of cheaper great cameras like C70, C300, Sony Fx6, etc. Might just wait till Cannon releases C300S with 8K. The ability to zoom in in post has turned out to be super important.
@@atomicdynamo6062 Absolutely wait. Don't buy anything now before the release of all the new stuff which is scheduled to become available soon for comparison. The latest Canon cinema S line looks great (at least on paper). I just hope the prices remain competitive.
@@maurice_morales Excellent points.
Are we going to act like that brand new bronco isn’t in the background.
I’ll try to work it in to a video soon 😄
@@GriffinConway oh snap, is that yours now I’m completely jealous!
Why would UA-camrs buy a camera more than a few thousand bucks?
I don't think this is aimed at judgnyoutubers
You're using different lenses. A proper test would use the same lenses with different cameras, no?
Maybe? It depends on what he's testing.
This test was to show how the lenses would look with canon L glass on the c70 and proper cinema glass on the mini LF. The majority of people using the c70 won’t use cinema glass. And honestly, this was really just a test i shot for myself and deduced to share because we had to use the c70 as an overhead cam the following day on a commercial production and wanted to see how they looked side by side before we did it
Thanks Griffin
The magic in Alexa's picture
Almost unattainable for any other camera
Even the red camera, in my opinion, is a long way from Alexa
It is not surprising that 95% of the world's cinema productions are shot with Alexa
Even the image of the classic Alexa camera, which is more than ten years old
It is still better than all the cameras on the market
Ya the Alexa image is something special
C70 is honestly such a beast, I've used Arri cameras for a large majority of my working career but I've recently moved over to canon and I cant recommend it more for people who are open to doing all sorts of video work.
That Arri is worth the big dollar's i mean that image! Arri is the hasselblad of video. If i become a crypto millionaire i will buy it in one sec. To shoot youtube content with 😅😅😅😅🙏🏾✨👍🏽 love the channel! Maybe you could do some videos on color grading. Greeting from Bali
I love Bali! We visited about 2 years ago. I love the image of the Arri as well, but for sure out of my budget
Why was the c70 footage so red?? Its like the white balance was way off
IR contamination
@@alexlubensky Why would that happen on the c70? The c70 has internal NDs
This test was far from scientific :) They had 5 minutes and decided to push some content on UA-cam.
@@lukastemberger 100%
@@wcsdiaries Infrared and NDs are 2 separate things... I was considering if C70 doesn't have IR filter built in, couldn't find the info...
B is the Arri