The Viking Funeral Ibn Fadlan Saw
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- Опубліковано 22 чер 2024
- A look at the Rūs funeral witnessed by Ahmad Ibn Fadlān in AD 922. Includes an Old Norse translation of the "Lo there do I see my father" prayer, made famous by the dramatization of these events in the movie The 13th Warrior.
Dr. Jackson Crawford is Instructor of Nordic Studies and Nordic Program Coordinator at the University of Colorado Boulder (formerly UC Berkeley and UCLA). He is a historical linguist and an experienced teacher of Old Norse, Modern Icelandic, and Norwegian.
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Jackson Crawford’s translation of The Poetic Edda: www.amazon.com/gp/product/162...
Jackson Crawford’s translation of The Saga of the Volsungs with The Saga of Ragnar Lothbrok: www.amazon.com/gp/product/162...
Jackson Crawford's Patreon page: / norsebysw
And on a related note, this twitter thread is an informative refutation of the popular news story about a Viking grave with "Allah" supposedly written in the funeral clothes: twitter.com/stephenniem/status/919897406031978496
It's not surprising, when I heard all the commotion about it my first idea was they just thought it was a nice pattern and copied it. It seemed like somebody was jumping to conclusions because they desperately wanted it to be true.
Ora Magnell it was alarming how much it was pushed in a short period of time as well.
It looked to me like a decorative pattern that someone adopted, perhaps after seeing attractive Arabic patterns.
Tina imagine if aliens found my Grandfathers ww2 stash of Japanese officers Katana and Pistol. Would they assume he was worshipping the God Emperor of Japan? The early reports of this was bizzaro pandering.
I like how she also when into the ring saying to or for God...
I am an Arab native speaker, I can help you with anything you need in terms of translation! I read the book of Ibn Fadhlan in arabic and from what I understand on his book the vikings raided the Andalus (South of Spain) and could do a Guirilla war on the Islamic world but they didn't and rather choose to trade. This gave me an impression that the Islam world of that era was th size of US now. and Abbasi caliphate preferred not to have war with them due to their courage and love of death which is rarely existed in any other culture except Islamic and Vikings "Both long to fight and die honorably to reach a certain destination".
This is a bias view from your side
@@Bar8-6ar8 You may want to clarify why is it Bias?
@@MHZ901 fighting to die and reach an honorable end is a culture common to all over the world
@@Cecilia-ky3uw not anymore. Now people want life even if they live with no dignity.
Well...Vikings Valhalla was an equivalent of Moeslim Jannah, a beautiful place that promise for the bravest warriors
My mother wanted a Viking funeral, so we did that. However, we forgot to put in a slave 'volunteer.'
Anybody gangbanged?
Lol so you did the rest? 😂
@@bulevarknjiga6691 his sister was i was present.
right off the wall. thank yew. truth is stranger than fiction. if u didn't tell me i wouldn't have imagined it. take care dr. crawford.
The part about building a door-frame and lifting the girl over it sounds like a symbolic representation of the gates of hell. You wouldn't want to pass through the gate yourself, so you are lifted over it instead.
Ya that's pretty fascinating
Exactly - this is why I think it must be linked to the myth of Gulvig or Heid in the Norse Sagas. Hell was also not like the Christian Hell, but was the Helheim, it was just an underworld the ancestral Land of the Dead, ruled by the Goddess Hel. Which is where we get the name from today.
I loved that book the movie 'The 13th Warrior' is based off of,,, 'The Eaters of The Dead', great book.
Why didn't they teach us about Ibn Fadlan in history classes here in Jordan??
At least mention that an Arab traveler met the Vikings (if they don't want to mention naked people in funerals!)
Emil Auadisian vikings were mercenaries in Asia Minor so.
My favorite part of this video is the segment where you read your translation into Old Norse of the Hollywood revision of the translation of Ibn Fadlān's translation of what the sacrificed slave woman allegedly said during this funeral Fadlān bore witness to and how you emphasize the multiple layers of remove one has to consider when determining how accurate and reliable that translation is (giving special emphasis to the fact that it is not known exactly what language she was speaking in to begin with). We are left to speculate as to how fluent he or his interpreter(s) is with the language(s) being used by those involved with this ceremony that he was witness to.
This account of the slave girl, sounds like the Norse Myth of Gulvig or Heid, who is also conflated with the Goddess Freya, in the Vanir-Aesir War in the Volspua Sagas. Who brought Seidr and witchcraft to the Aesir. There are depictions of Gluvig being lifted by spears onto a fire, while she is relaying her visions of the Norse Underworld.
Guys here need to know that Kazan in 10th century was a Muslim city and still is 60% Muslim. When Jack said that Kazan is in Russia, you might have imagined a Russian city, but Russia(Duchy of Moscow) conquered Kazan in year 1552 AD. Kazan is a Tatar city , capital of modern day Tatarstan in Russia. It lies on Volga river, where Norse ships used to come for trade and on their way to south to Persia, for raids and trade.
There is also a village in Northern Afghanistan called Kazan which means the same thing as the Tatarstan city (Qazan means 'Cauldron' in Old Qipchak) which was founded by Turkic migrants of a similar ethnic derivation to the people of Volga Bulgaria.
Also, the Tatar Qazan is a beautiful city and anyone who visits it will not be disappointed.
@@adam-k The region of Tataristan is the same region as Volga Bulgaria.
According to ibn Rusta, the people of the region were already muslim at that time. Here is a small 3m documentary about it
ua-cam.com/video/w47WliyNTd0/v-deo.html
@@adam-k
In fact, Oghuzes destroyed the capital of Khazars (Atil), because they were allies of the Svyatoslav.
Wikipedia says Moscow wasn't even there at the time...first mentioned about two hundred years later. Probably around its proto forming stage.
Jackson, so glad your videos popped-up on my screen. One of my favorite movies, I love listening to your Old Norse. Just recently traced my Grandmothers family back to Norway, from Shetland Islands. So trying just for fun to learn modern Norse. Anyway, thanks for the videos.
Very informative video!
I read Ibn Fadhlan in Arabic over 15 years ago. I'm not sure but I recall him speaking about what I thought was Denmark because he said Land of Dan (Danes?). I think he was travelling though and passing there with his Viking mates.
Dan refers to the tribe of Dan, a lost tribe of Israel, something the Arabic world would know more about and would explain why he would potentially understood them
thank you Dr Crawford
i just ordered your latest book and cant wait until it arrives
Dope dude. You're awesome. Thanks for the info!!!
Your videos are awesome - will buy your books soon! Thank you so much, Dr Crawford!
Hello! Thank you for this information.
Hey, you even got the Arabic and Qipchak words right (nearly)!
Thanks for the reading of ibn fadlan, but yet more thanks for the link to that twitter thread!
I enjoy the topic . I enjoy the Poetic Edda. I’m subscribed. Thank you professor.
Very interesting and educational, Professor. Very glad I went directed to your channel. Looking forward to more.
What a fascinating story. Would love to see this çovered in more depth. Either way thank you for the upload!
thank you so much for putting out these videos. They have become quite a helpful resource for me and my own work. I wish there was more information on post christianization of the Vikings. That is one area that seems to be sadly lacking or at least I cannot find many resources that I can utilize. Regardless keep up the good work and know that it is appreciated.
Thank you for this information, will be getting the book. liked
Funny how me as a Swedish person can usually understand all of the old norse texts you put in your videos haha.
svenska kommer ju från fornnordiskan så de inte så konstigt
@@darthrevan6171 jag vet men om man bara kollar på hur annorlunda svenska varit genom tiderna och hur mycket det ändrats så är det ändå ganska häftigt.
Everyone has a power.
There are also parallels with descriptions of horse sacrifices in other Indo-European culture, which adds to the credibility of the account.
Ha ha ! I love it, thanks for the reading so I can practice pronunciation professor!
Anyone who is thinking about getting the Poetic Edda... I have two copies and Professor Jackson’s is by far the easiest to read ... he puts it in modern day language without losing meaning or poetic flow. Just my two cents ... be well
I’m guessing that “ritual sex” is a pretty euphemistic and benign description for what actually happened.
what are you suggesting?
That it was a practice to drown out the screams of the sacrifice as she lay with the men by drumming on shields.
I am greatly pleased that I have received my copy of the Saga of the Volsungs after been told that it would not be available until December and I am looking forward to making time to read it. I know the stories from old but I value modern day translations.
I think that my curiosity is now peaked and I must see the film the 13th Warrior and maybe a copy of the book that is discussed here.
Thank you, so interesting. Hugs & sunshine 🌞 N
Funfact: The ‘Lo there...’ lines are also used at the beginning of God of War when Atreus (won’t spoil who he is in the context of the game’s lore) prays to his own dead mother.
Watching this video, I find it funny that God of War remixes the Hollywood version of the ‘prayer’, which itself was based on a translation that had already undergone the 3 different language filters (Russian?Old Norse? -> Arabic -> Modern English), and topped by the original scenario being a retelling of what transpired coming from a viewer who, while objective in their retelling, was still largely foreign to what they were seeing.
tl;dr God of War loosely references this funeral.
Nice summary. I also read Crichton's "Eaters of the Dead"
Thank you
I often wanted to create a movie script based on one of those sagas. I need to get to it very soon.
in Northern Scotland
Ros refers to a ''finger of land''
ie a Peninsula.
I have seen multiple Rus words and Scot words that are clearly cognates, some of which are names of lands or territories.
that chant that she does is shown in the TV show Vikings too. :)
Zero dislikes so far.
In the myth of Orpheus and Eurydice, he must not turn back and look at her while he is driving her out of the realm of death, he does it anyway and he loses her forever. And in Dante's Inferno (XX Chant) bolgia N. 4 the damned (magicians, fortune tellers, diviners, astrologers), walk backward; among them, there is also a witch, Manto.
all of these depictions seem like they are meant to represent a characterization of the people rather than any accurate description of ritual. It's almost as if looking back has an association with second-guessing and doubt, which ruin the power of confidence/placebo, and/or that the effect and practice of ritual and curses withers under direct examination. Speculatively, there seems to be a hint of these descriptions being cautionary/descriptive of blind faith and the pitfalls of superstition.
Little disappointed you didn't give any commentry on this funeral
Fascinating
Hello, fellow Crawford.
There’s also a final bit that’s often added to that prayer, “Nor shall we mourn, but rejoice for those who have died a glorious death.”
Might have to learn Old Norse just to translate it.
Side note: it’s amazing to think of how far reaching the cultural contacts were. I never would have thought Arabs and Norse would be interacting and yet here we are!
there are many ways in which we underestimate ancient cultures. A number of modern ideologies and beliefs make it difficult for many to grasp how interconnected and intertwined ancient peoples were. 9th century runic graffiti in Hagia Sophia in modern day Turkey surprises people. I feel like the way Ibn Fadlan describes the funeral is tinted by the association of Rus with the varangian guard in service to Byzantium which may have been seen to compete with Ibn Fadlan's patrons. Ibn Fadlan's portrayal of the Rus may have been meant to reflect something about Byzantine authority.
My mother is 71 generations Scandinavian, there is an X factor distribution of DNA which is so far been determined to be random from the MtDNA line in females, I received 10% Rus. So I found this very interesting.
Only 71? As a native Swede, this displeases me.
Just want to add, that archaeologist Professor Neil Price talks a lot about the Ahmad ibn Fadlan story in this lecture: Dealing with the Dead in the Viking Age ua-cam.com/video/uu2gN8n15_A/v-deo.html - The whole series of 3 lectures: The Children of Ash: Cosmology and the Viking Universe is highly recommended
Dr. Crawford,
Do you have a approximate translation of what the original "prayer" might have been like in Old Norse instead of the book/movie version?
It's in the video.
ua-cam.com/video/4-74nZZkAaY/v-deo.htmlm52s
That is the reconstruction of the book/movie version.
I speak Arabic, yes it’s pretty much accurate. Ibn Fadlan of course has the idea of an Abrahamic Heaven and burial like in Christianity, Islam and Judaism but he knew that Valhala isn’t exactly like the Middle Eastern philosophy of Heaven and burial rituals
unrelated but somewhat linked : does Edain - or Dunedain from Tolkien Lore (referring to the group of Men who supported the elves and Valar) have any link to the word Edda......or its roots ??
Thanking you, ser. When I was a lot younger I had found a partial copy of the Arabic account of the funeral and it compelled me to read the eddas(a very long while ago) as well as noted that the Rus did not have these "angels" or really even the equivalent of them in their belief. It stated the arab called it such as to make possibly a sensational read and because the lack of translatable effect would render its value inert to his culture and therefore purely barbaric. I am aware of the valkyr, but they seem not yet living in the sense of a physicality, but in intangibilty until death and the shift of consciousness is complete and those to whom interaction is warranted have revelation of them and their realm. Is any of this of consequence or wasted thought? If you could illuminate any ideas or tell me if I am misguided in my direction I will appreciate it. I really enjoy your videos. The country you film in is amazing, thank you again.
It makes sense that he altered the events slightly to make it more palatable to his readers. Early Christian monks did the same thing to the saga of Beowulf by adding Christian themes to the account.
@@jamesbarnes8854 it appears thats what happened, but then I guess there might not have been a suitable translation for the position in this specific function except maybe "executioner". But as a sacrifice with a distinct importance, execution doesn't appear to describe the event.
That explains why some modern song lyrics form Iceland mention funerals with burning bones, walking naked, strange elements like that.
Which songs would that be?
I'm from Iceland and I have never heard anything like that.
How accurate is the book you mentioned compared to Chrichtons (sp) "Eaters of the Dead " or "The 13th Warrior"? Thank you
In Ibn Fadlan's book, the mention of the Rus/Varangians/Vikings ended with the end of the funeral
@@krimozaki9494 believe you are correct. The ibn Fadlan documents only go so far in telling how far he and the traveling group went. Thank you 🤓
Totaly 13 warrior I assume same abin
Abolutely fascinating! And imagine, people still believe in gods and such magic today!
Imagine people looking back at our literature and media and judging us for believing in Santa Claus and the Easter bunny. Did the stories they tell reflect their belief in literal gods and magic, or did the use of magic and archetypical god characters and other supernatural elements serve to mark the narrative as allegory? If a literal interpretation is impossible, wouldn't people know to therefore interpret the narrative elements as symbolic or representative?
@@williamcochran7230 Well if you boil the question down to its bare essentials, its in this case about whether or not one can prove the unprovable, ("the impossible"), and you can't. But the flipside of that is that you can't dissprove it either and so people being people are gonna people.
Voices of the past has Ibn Fadlan's entire account. Jackson ignores many details in his account. Such as how drunk she was at the time (while saying she sees her family), the shouting of the Vikings to suppress her screams, etc.
I have a question doc is the river smart so I can throw some rocks in it and call them River road Rock and have them bang them up to look like a real fossil in real life. And find them a couple of years later laying outside on the riverbank.
She was “tended to” 🤣
Data should be free! -- Julian T. Reid III 1984
Why is it that the Nordic languages has a "E" in the name of every mythological name and the English language seems to lack this? In the Nordic languages we have several names like Balder, Mjölner, Mimer, Loke, Ymer, Skade and Swedish even uses the name Oden. In the English version there's a huge difference however where the above mentioned are spelled Baldr, Mjolnir, Mimir, Loki, Ymir, Skadi and Odin, if anyone knows the answer to why this is I'd love to hear an explanation?
Think the E in non-Icelandic names and the U in most of the Icelandic names is a recent development and the latter versions in your example are for the most part closer to the Old Norse rather than the modern languages.
It's not a very interesting explanation. I and E just sound similar in Swedish. So over the centuries, Odin becomes Oden, and Baldr becomes Balder. Letters are just representations of sounds, and if I and E sound similar enough, the distinction becomes meaningless.
Thanks, that helps a lot, while I do see how "I" and "E" may sound similar. But why then have Fenrir, Freja, Embla and Heimdal for instance got to keep the "E"'s in their English names, it's not like those "E"s are vastly different? With Hel it's somewhat self-explanatory as her entire name probably originates from Christianity.
That's how they heard it and pronounced it. 'I' and 'E' do sound different in English than in Scandinavian languages. It's more like 'Eye' and 'Ee' in English, and in Scandinavian it's 'Ee' and 'Eeh' for 'I' and 'E' respectively. If we just look at Heimdallr, it's different from the others because it's not an 'E' sound, it's an 'EI' sound. And this combination means it's pronounced 'High-m-dahl' in English, and 'Hey-m-dahl' in Swedish. The pronunciation changes to fit the phonemes of the language used. In this cases they thought it sounded like an 'EI' so they put one in there. So why 'Fenrir' and not 'Fenrer' or 'Finrir'? I have no idea. These variants could all potentially be pronounced the exact same way. That's just the way the term evolved. It could be that's just how they thought it sounded, or it could have much older origins, dating back to a time when there indeed was a difference in pronunciation. That's a question for a linguist like Dr. Crawford.
But the way I understand it, the reason English uses the 'I' variants is _probably_ because they got it from the Icelandic texts, and those use the 'I' versions, and then they just slightly adjusted the terms to fit English better. And Hel is indeed Old Norse. The term 'Hell' derives from the Old English term for the world of the dead 'hel', or 'helle', which itself is derived from an older Proto-Germanic term meaning 'one who hides things' which is the same word that became 'Hel' in Old Norse. The idea of hell comes from Gehenna though.
Well damn I must admit I didn't expect any answer at all even less such a great one when I made the first post, I just thought my post would get lost in the masses. Thank you so much for your time Gaius. It would be interesting to see a video from Jackson and compare Norwegian, Icelandic and English names to Old Norse and seehow they all relate to the origins and which has deviated the most.
Although on the note of pronunciation, what on Earth has English done with the letter "j", it's pronounced "djej".
Thank you Doc.
Norse mythology is more interesting then anything out there today and it's way better than Star Wars Disney ruined it thank you again. Doc
Interesting about the tattoo color. Fadlan states the tattoos were "green." Do we know if Fadlan saw green and blue as the same color? Likewise, any possible relation to Orpheus and Eurydice and the "don't look back" motif?
I don’t think so because he had a companion or two with him
If i had to guess, they used to be black tattooes and they aged? Assuming their tattooes were made with similar ink to modern day ones.
he says right in the beginning that there were dark greens lines from their necks to their toes.. does he mean they were vertical or did they form patterns? the celts were known to paint themselves blue with woad, maybe the norse liked green instead I dunno
💚👍
İ read angel of dead sections i suppose its about turks i will review maybe i am wrong so book is about Turks russians and Vikings
DEUTSCHE ÜBERSETZUNG
I made a german translation of this video, as far as I understood. Hier der Versuch einer deutschen Übersetzung:
922 erreichte ein ... des Kalifen in Bagdad namens Ahmad Ibn Fadlan die Region des heutigen Kazan in Russland und erlebte das kälteste Wetter, das er jemals gekannt hatte. In dieser Region um den Fluss Wolga traf er einige Männer der Rus. Das waren schwedische Wikinger, die in Osteuropa mit den Byzantinern und Moslems handelten. Hauptsächlich im 10. Jh. v. Chr. Obwohl ursprünglich Norweger, konvertierten sie zum ostorthodoxen Christentum und gründeten viele Städte im heutigen Russland und der Ukraine, zb Kiew und Nowgorod, und assimilierten slawische Sprache und Gewohnheiten. Die Rus, die Ahmad Ibn Fadlan begegneten, wurden von ihm beschrieben in seinerm Reisebericht, der jüngst in einem Buch von Paul ...namens "Ibn Fadlan und das Land der Dunkelheit" übersetzt wurde, das auch viele Erzählungen anderer arabischer Reisender im Norden enthält. Seine Erzählung berichtet präzise Details von diesen Rus. Er war beeindruckt davon, wie nett sie waren. Er nannte sie die besten Reiter und physikalischen... , die er auf seiner Reise sah. Er beschwerte sich oft,...
Er war abgestossen von manchen Sachen, zb von ihrer Praxis, sich in kommunalen Becken zu waschen, aber er war auch ganz objektiv und beschrieb einige interessante Fakten, zb dass die Rus vom Hals bis zu den Zehenspitzen dunkelgrüne Tattoos hatten. Wenn das so ist, ist das der einzige Beweis für norwegische Tätowierungen.
Ibn Fadlan besuchte das Begräbnis eines Rushäuptlings, das er sehr detailliert beschreibt, es war ein seltsames und zwanghaftes Ereignis. Laut ihm wurde, nachdem dieser Mann gestorben war, er für einige Tage in feines Gewand gehüllt, während das Begräbnis vorbereitet wurde, und seine Sklaven wurden gefragt, wer mit ihm gehen würde. Freiwillige vor. Eine Sklavin meldete sich freiwillig, und sie wurde eine Weile sehr gut behandelt, gut genährt und gepflegt. Währenddessen wurde das Schiff des Mannes an Land gezogen und an Holzständern befestigt. Der Mann wurde auf ein Bett gelegt mit Essen rundherum, am Schiff, und ein Hund, zwei Pferde, zwei Kühe und ein Hahn wurden dann geopfert und zu ihm ins Boot gegeben.
Die Sklavin, die freiwillig mit ihm sterben würde, kam nun und hatte rituellen Sex mit dem Gefolge des Mannes, bevor nahe dem Schiff ein hölzerner Türrahmen ohne Tür gebaut wurde. Und sie wurde auf diesen hölzernen Türrahmen gehoben. Sie sang dort etwas, das Ibn Fadlan auf arabisch widergibt. Natürlich wissen wir nicht, ob ihre Sprache altnorwegisch oder mehr russisch war, es ist schwer zu sagen. Doch laut Fadlan und der Übersetzung in englisch war es: Dort sehe ich meinen Vater und meine Mutter, dort sehe ich alle meine toten Verwandten sitzen. Dort sehe ich meinen Herrn im Paradies sitzen, und das Paradies ist grün und schön. Es sind Männer und junge Leute bei ihm, und er ruft mich. Bringt mich zu ihm.
In dem Film "Der 13. Krieger", der mit Antonia Banderas als Ibn Fadlan beginnt, der dieses Begräbnis sieht, ist das auf eine ein bisschen andere Art gemacht. Es wurde sehr bekannt im Internet und bei Norwegenfans. Nicht allen war bewusst, dass der Film die Quelle dieser Variante war.
"Siehe, da unten sehe ich meinen Vater. Siehe, da unten sehe ich meine Mutter und meine Schwestern und meine Brüder. Da unten sehe ich die Reihe meiner Ahnen bis zum Anfang. Siehe, sie rufen mir zu, bitten mich, meinen Platz bei ihnen einzunehmen in den Hallen Walhallas, wo die Mutigen für immer leben. (Das Wort Halle ist schon in Walhalla.) Ich werde oft gebeten, das in altnorwegisch zu übersetzen. Ich glaube, besser geht es nicht, oft ist es nicht leicht, etwas in einer mittelalterlichen Sprache zu sagen.
5:05
Natürlich ist das nur eine Rekonstruktion von etwas, das für einen Film oder ein Buch geschrieben wurde, basierend auf etwas, das Fadlan in einer nicht definierten Sprache gehört hat. Trotzdem, nach diesem Gesang bringen sie der Frau einen Hahn. Sie reisst ihm den Kopf ab und wirft ihn weg und wirft den Körper ins Schiff. Dann nimmt sie zwei Armbänder ab und gibt sie einer alten hässlichen Frau, die laut Fadlan dort vorsteht und Engel des Todes genannt wird. Das Mädchen wird aufs Schiff gebracht und bekommt ein starkes Getränk. Sie singt ein Lied darüber, das laut Fadlan ein Adieu an alle ihre Freundinnen ist. Doch sie braucht zu lange, und der Todesengel treibt sie an. Das Mädchen wird verwirrt, vielleicht weil sie betrunken und high ist, und fängt zu schreien an. Der Engel des Todes zieht sie ins Boot, und die Männer um das Schiff fangen an, einen Wirbel mit ihren Waffen zu machen, um das Geschrei des Mädchens zu übertönen. Dann haben sechs Männer noch einmal rituellen Sex mit ihr im Schiff. Vier Männer nehmen ihre Arme und Beine, und zwei fesseln sie mit einem Seil, während der Todesengel sie mit einem Messer in die Rippen ersticht. Der nächste männliche Verwandte des Mannes, der hier begraben wird, geht dann nackt rückwärts zum Schiff mit einer Fackel in der Hand. Ibn Fadlan sagt, während er das Schiff verbrennen sah, sagte einer der Rus durch einen Übersetzer zu ihm: ihr Araber seid Narren, denn ihr gebt die, die ihr am meisten liebt, und die Nobelsten in die Erde, und die Erde und die Würmer und Insekten essen sie. Aber wir verbrennen sie in einem Feuer, so dass sie ohne Verzögerung ins Paradies kommen. Und dann fügte er hinzu: Sein Herr hat aus Liebe zu ihm einen...gesandt, der ihn gleich anschliessend verbrennen wird.
Die arabische Übersetzung muss für ihre Klarheit gerühmt werden.
Dann, als das Schiff verbrannt war, machten sie einen Hügel auf dem Platz, in der Mitte einen Holzpfosten, der lt. Ibn Fadlan den Namen des Mannes hatte und den Namen des Königs und...
Dieses Begräbnis ist nicht so wie die Begräbnisse in den Sagas, obwohl wir wissen, dass diese Beisetzungen in manchen nordischen Gebieten praktiziert wurden, ehe das Christentum kam. Einige nordische Quellen erwähnen zwar etwas Ähnliches, zb wie Snorri das Begräbnis von Baldur nach seinem Tod beschreibt, worüber ich in meinem Video "der Tod Baldurs" gesprochen habe. ...
Es gibt viele Ähnlickeiten, inkl. das Begraben eines Toten in einem Schiff, und oft hatten Grabhügel die Form eines Schiffs, oder die Person wurde in einem Schiff in einem Hügel bestattet wie zb der Grabhügel in .... in Norwegen.
... oder .. eine Frau, die Hel besucht, reisst den Kopf eines Hahns ab und wirft ihn über das Tor von Hel. Sofort hört sie ihn auf der anderen Seite singen. So ist also vielleicht etwas Symbolisches in der Art, wie das Mädchen dem Hahn den Kopf abreisst und einen Teil davon ins Schiff wirft und erwartet, dass er dann auf der anderen Seite singt im Jenseits. Auch wie der Mann rückwärts nackt zum Schiff geht mit seiner Fackel, könnte uns daran erinnern, wie die Volva sich oft in den Sagas verhält. Zb in der Vatensdal-Saga: eine Hexe, die ihre Feinde verfluchen will, geht nackt rückwärts um ihr Haus mit ihrem Kleid um den Hals...Vielleicht wurde das so gemacht, um sich der anderen Welt anzunähern, ohne sie zu auf konventionelle Art zu sehen. Usw.
I like the 13th Warrior, at least you could get the feel of the Norse culture, how extensive it was. The name Viking - is just old English for a Pirate or Raider, as for about 200 hundred years they raided, attempted invasions, and at various times settled in the British Isles, mostly they were Danes, but they were just north European, Scandinavian peoples. The accent today in Newcastle is influenced by Danish words such as "Bairns", for children etc. Ibn Fadlin's account was not necessarily reliable, he would have had his own reasons to paint them as morally inferior to what he sees as his "civilised" Arab culture. It is heavily influenced by this cultural lense. Their beliefs about the after life were totally different.
It seems they got this quite accurate in the TV Show Vikings. :)
Wow Red Dead Redemption 3 Trailer and interview look amazing
Lifting above the door frame. I've just been reading Völsa þáttr where after King Olaf throws the sacred horse penis to the dog, the old farmers wife begs to be lifted above the door frame and the door beam so she can discover the whereabouts of her sacred thing.
Interesting, the Prayer for Courage as stated in the 13th. Warrior made in 1999 I heard the first time in 1988...Some of what Prof. Crawford addresses was passed down through family folklore and differs slightly. Oh my grandmother was a 'volva' and passed that onto her daughter and granddaughter. Oral tradition varies from the stated text in small details.
First1 For the first time I am first - and I have nothing to comment... OK maybe it is fun for once have an account by an Arab that is not the infamous one about how filthy they were.
TulilaSalome
Congrats on being first ... well done! 😄
Did he came across any cannibal cavemen?
whats up with all the ritual sex? whats the meaning behind that?
very disturbing...
That's what Canaanites did, it's been around.
Thanks Dr Crawford, I think you need to watch the Arabic movie on ibnul Fadhlan made by Syria. the 13th warrior is full of distortion and Mr Banderas did not play well the character. his performance when as acting as ibnul fadhlan was awful. check the Syrian actor in the Arabic movie it is great and I am pretty sure if you watch it you will like it and may give you an extra insight about this great man IBNUL AL FADHLAN!PROF. Dr. A. Derradji
It is called "رحلة بن فضلان" check this title in Arabic on youtube
Colorado and Maine are the 2 states that allow a "Viking style funeral " pyres legally.
Just a note.
Al RUS in Arabic was a generic name given to anyone from Russia to Scandinavia
Not really
They Called the Slavs "Saqaliba"
Ibn Fadlan did not go to Kazan, as it was not yet a city. His final destination was Bulgaria on the Volga river and he has described all people he encountered on his way to Volga Bulgaria (finally describing the Bulgarians, often referring to them as "sacaliba" ). So one of these peple were the Rus traders who have come to trade on the Atil (Volga) river. The people reffered to as "Rus" in the sources are people who are ruled by the Rus aristocracy which in origin is from far noth as todays Baltic countries and ruled the territory of present day Ukraine and some parts of South Russia. No one for sure knows if they were Norse or Finns. Most scholars suggest the Rus were "vikings" because they used ships and came from the north. Also, in the description of this funeral Ibn Fadlan has written about there is no mention of the name Valhalla whatsoever.
patkakurmama If it wasn’t a city yet doesn’t mean it was a void and a black hole. Her actually went up north, farther than Rus. Up to modern day Sweden. The other Arabic books of his aren’t translated yet for some reason. Maybe the Christianization of Scandenivia is the reason.
They have taken DNA tests from Rurik, and that match up with the DNA from modern day swedes. So most likely the Rus came from modern day Sweden.
Kiev was originally a Khazar fortress, it wasn't founded by the Rus
It doesn’t make sense in arabic to speak of Ahmad ibn Fadlan just as ‘ibn Fadlan’. That would be the equivalent of speaking of Eirikrr Haraldsson just as Haraldsson, as ibn Fadlan just means the son of Fadlan, although, surprisingly, you could easily name Fadlan, his father just abu Ahmad, or the father of Ahmad, and be grammatically correct.
It does make sense to call him "Ibn Fadlan." There are other examples of Medieval Arab writers who are called by their father's name. For example, Ib al-Athir. His Name is " 'iz al-Din" but he is always reffered to as "Ibn al-Athir."
It makes since because Arabs can be called by Ibn + father’s name. Just like in Iceland. Actually a very smart mention by you to be honest, I believe you have much knowledge in Arabic language which is interesting to me!
Freyja Svansdóttir And your father’s name is Svans as dóttir means daughter as I believe right?
I hope you know that there are so many Arabs who just bear the name...son of or ibn or bin...bin Ladin, ibn Rushd, ibn Battuta, ibn sina, ibn razi, ibn Rasheed, bin Saud, etc.
My point is that the video is accurate about how Arabs are being referred to.
i think she is right -it is very nuanced what she is saying. I would add that in referring to someone 'historical' / famous amongst peers - associated with a particular field - of study/or examination , it is common to just abbreviate the name to its shorthand.
This is done in contemporary scholorship too......eg, Gibbon's Account etc. Chances of there being multiple people with the same name in that field of study/discussion are much smaller than just regular populous.
However, when dealing with people in society in the PRESENT TENSE / or contemporary people/associates, with such naming conventions, ....YES....its perhaps more proper to use the fuller title As there could be many ' joe blogs' so therefore -which one?
Just as practiced by any employer/admin department / college/school/government registry.
Actually, classically, it would have been more proper and correct to even include grandfather's name and also clan name. Eg, So-and-so, son of so-and-so, son of so-and-so - and then clan/tribe name.
Lol what's with all the ritual sex? They were just telling Ibn that because them savages were just horndogs.
It's not pronounced risala...short vowels... its pronounced risaala.
we muslims were travelling everywhere in these days. we saw and witnessed while west were walking in the sh.t in paris 😅
Yes things have changed, now we have toilets in europe while the muslim countries live in sh*t.
The first muslims were taught to seek knowledge, now they get dummer and wrongly believe the quran holds all answers, while in every other country people seek knowledge and get wiser.
Reading through the account you can really begin to understand why people converted to christianity.. people saw at least a slight liberation in it, no longer would you have to be as concerned that the angel of death would come after you with a dagger if your chief died.. Woman also don't naturally like to be used as objects, with explicit behavior being directed at them publicly among the men who owned them.. so when people saw the christian shift in culture and worship, without the need to cut dogs and horses in half or display vulgar sexuality they probably leapt to it.. though of it course it still could be a rough thing to live under, I that that it was better by a few degrees
A good point. I would also add at least one more, which I think is very important one. When speaking about conversion from paganism, we must first accept the fact that pagan beliefs were very very inconsistent. As our dear dr. Crowford pointed out, there were certainly differencies even among relatively homogeneous culture like old norse was. Pagans didn't have clergy, at least it wasn't so developed like christian and muslim clergys were, and they were illiterate, so no passing down words directly to next generations and philosophy was inconsistent as well as relgious customs and their symbolysm. And without literacy it was very hard to mass knowledge. If you wanted to heat opponion from another man, you had to listen it, you couldn't just read it. So those men of the faith among pagans were very easily beaten in debate by schooled and literate priests. They didn't had to beat them phisicaly. Word is a very powerful tool and people nowadays tend to see christanization of europe, as well as islamization of nowadays muslim country as utterly violent acts, which is totaly untrue. And btw, church often had at least one saint to efectively replace one pagan god, as well they had Jesus as a figure of a redeemer and savior, very appealing idea to people in every society ever.
I'm not entirely sure I'd go though quite that far.. and I think it's possible I might be quite wrong. I think there was some saying attributed to a druid that went something like 'storing information in books weakens the mind..' And Julius Caesar said that the druids had to learn 20 years worth of information to become a druid.. they would probably memorize thousands of spells and long genealogies and important stories.. And you know, there are actually people that exist that have a neurological condition where they cannot forget. I imagine it was no different with the angel of death, that she had a thousand such rituals like the strange one with the door frame.. Ship burial and mound burial seem to occur over hundreds if not thousands of years. Perhaps it's inconsistent that some were burned and others buried, though that's possibly analogous to how there soon was a british easter opposed to a roman one, or a celtic tonsure which may have radically differed from the mainline catholic..
@@ivanmartinovic7303 first of all northemn (vikings) where not illiterate ever heard about the younger futhark? yes it was an oral tradition but they wern´t illiterate. secondly it´s interasting that you say that this is "worse" than christianity. First of all the thing about killing animals?!?! there is so Many cultures and religions that sacrafices dead animals so what so different about this? secondly if we compare old norse society to the christian one. The norse one was in my opinion better, they had freedom of religion but in christian countries if you had a different religion you either had to convert or die (with a few exeptions) and in norse societies women had more rights than in christian ones. Lastly what are you talking about priests and philosophy? Priest didn´t really have anything with philosophy to do? of course they could be educated in it but taht doesn´t mean taht every priest was a great thinker and philosopher. Lastly vikings did have some philosophies though. Mainly how people should act (honorbly etc). So why do you think that the priests and christians where any better than them?
Kiev was founded c.482, way before vikings prowled Dniepr and Volga. It was an established, rich city by the time Askold and Dyr took it.
The woman's prayer and the overall funeral runs in contradiction to Norse beliefs. 1) there is mention of paradise; it can't be Valhalla because there are women there, and seemingly entire families, 2) the woman volunteers; that's certainly because she's certain she would join her master in paradise, which again, isn't Valhalla, 3) the chieftain didn't die in battle, that we know, yet he's guaranteed his place in paradise, which again, is very unlikely to be Valhalla.
Fadlan wrote disgusting stuff about Vikings.
He write what he saw
@@lybrebel14 I see
@@lybrebel14 maybe not, was he on first row so he could see all, maybe he couldn't see all but was a little creative when wrote it down, memory kan be a little tricky sometimes.
There is a television series in my country which have special part of an episode most people remember, the problem is that it dosn't exist, it is never shown or recorded, the viewers created the clip in their minds collectively, so the observer can't always be trusted.
Dear "scholar", answer me this: which gods did the Vikings worship? Name a couple, the ones that fist come to mind?
That's beside the point. I can ask you the same question. As well, I can ask you my original question: Name a couple of Norse/Viking gods that Vikings worshiped?
@Michael Holmes Now name the gods that the Rus worshiped. It's documented in written sources.
@Michael Holmes With a nose as long as yours, how can I take you seriously in a debate? You don't have the knowledge of basic subject matter.
@Michael Holmes Hey, where did you go all of a sudden? Hopefully, doing your research so you don't pass off as ignorant next time? So who did Rus worship as per written sources, not as per your imagination?
@Michael Holmes Hey, on the subordination topic, ever heard/read about Erik of Pomerania? Check him out. Three whole Scandinavian nations were subordinate to a Slavic ruler...
I think you need to go back to school for history classes. Before you embarrass yourself any further.
This dude is just throwing Wikipedia cliches around. In addition to saying ridiculous nonsense, such as "The Viking Rus", "...founded Kiev and Novgorod", etc.
I challenge you to name just ONE written source in which Rus were called "vikings". And Novgorod and Kiev already existed when the Rus arrived! Especially Kiev! Did you EVER bother to open and read ACTUAL chronicles?
The Frankish sources tells that the Rus that appered at Louis the pious court, by the Rus own account hailed from Svitjod (Sweden)...
The Rus were from Sweden. They have taken DNA tests from Rurik, and it matches with the DNA of modern day swedes.
@@Boss70305 >>"They have taken DNA tests from Rurik"
- Your statement doesn't make sense on so many levels. They took DNA samples from Rurik? A legendary figure that may never have existed and whose grave/tomb was never found by archeologists?
>>"and it matches with the DNA of modern day swedes"
- Seriously? The DNA of a person who lived over a thousand years ago matches the DNA of today's Swedish people? Which modern-day swedes? All of them?
What you say doesn't make any sense at all.
@@simonsayss187 Yes, that is true. The Rhos people that arrived at the court of Louis the Pious were found to be of the Sueones people.
@@arabofon Well go search it up yourself, if you’re interested. It’s a project thats been going on for many years.