New Land Cruiser: WHY does this cost $13K more than my GX460!?
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- Опубліковано 29 лют 2024
- Hey y’all! SO many of you have asked me for my thoughts on the new Land Cruiser now that we have finalized pricing, trim walk, and features. So here are my thoughts. And I’ll warn you in advance, they’re not pretty.
CHECK OUT MY GX550 REACTION VIDEO HERE: • A GX460 owner’s take o... - Авто та транспорт
Hey everyone! Just a note for those of you saying that this is simply inflation, it’s far beyond that.
Here are the facts: in 2009 when the GX460 launched, it started at just under $48K. In 2023 the starting price was just under to $59K. That increase means that the GX460 WAS ADJUSTING FOR INFLATION over its generational run (which is normal).
What is NOT NORMAL is the ~20% increase we are seeing in A SINGLE MODEL YEAR from the 2023 GX460 to the 2024 GX550 (that 20% being the difference between two comparably equipped models such as my 2023 Premium Plus at $64K and a 2024 Luxury at $77K). Thus, the increase simply NOT all to blame on inflation.
And thank you all for watching! The engagement and discussion here is so validating that my opinions are not out of line amongst actual Toyota SUV owners.
I honestly think that you should go audi/porsche for your next car considering how insane the pricing is
@@rishinarang9966 I've seen people treat a Cayenne and the lifted Panamera as a truck, but it just doesn't feel right.
@@rightwingsafetysquad9872 I dont think he uses GX as much as a truck
That is a massive increase I agree with your argument 😊
I live in The Netherlands. Over here, the mid spec landcruiser (professional spec) is currently being sold for €167,000 (usd 177,000). I think Toyota has lost their damn minds.
FINALLY so tired of all these media outlets acting like 57k is a reasonable or even expected price for a super base vehicle
Seriously!!! Most (not all) of the automotive media are just advertising outlets for the brands these days that don’t want to bite the hands that feed them.
Totally agree. This is just the 1st step (MSRP from the manufacturer), the dealers are taking from you for the 2nd step. Guess what? The new GX550 in Southern California has 15% mark up, lol
That's also before ADM
It looks cool in the suburbs! That's why. Toyota knows this man
it is
After I heard that the the new Land Cruiser was coming out as a 2.4 liter 4 cylinder turbo. I went out looking for a 2019-2021 Land Cruiser, but those were already inflated selling for $80K-90K for 40k mile range, ridiculous! I went out and bought a 2019 LX570 for $58.k. Could not be happier!
Great choice! That was exactly what lead me to my GX460. I love the LX570 but it would have been too big for my needs.
Damn smart move! I bought 2 460s in 2022 and probably should have bought a previous gen Land Cruiser and LX 570. We’re seriously thinking about getting a 24 runner before they trash that vehicle as well.
Appreciate you keeping it real... a lot of car UA-camrs get numb to these high prices. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should buy an over-priced vehicle. I was waiting on the GX550 but not I'm 99% sure I'll be buying a 2022 or 2023 GX460. Better value there IMO.
Thank you! And I completely agree! I think the other perception I get from these UA-camrs I see is that they make the assumption that if make the money to (truly) afford an $80K car you don’t care about how expensive it is but to your point, that’s just not right. I also think a lot of them don’t want to bite the hand that sends them to five star hotels in Hawaii for free.
My Lexus sales manager bought himself a GX460 AFTER he drove the new GX550. Draw your own conclusions.
Thank you for calling out the new ”Land Cruiser” for what it is: a Land Cruiser Prado! Too many people are totally delusional about what they’re getting.
Yes! And I think Toyota likes it that way…
I live and work in the middle east and it's offensive to see Toyota price US market prados higher than GX trim 300 seriers. On principle, no.
I think Toyota would have been best served by making Land Cruiser a trim level for all of their trucks in America. Get a 4Runner Land Cruiser, Taco Land Cruiser, and Tundra Land Cruiser.
I own a top line Prado from 2021 , my dealer is trying to offer me the new landcruiser at £25000 more than I paid for my 3 year old car. Apart from the tonka toy body the upgrades are not worth it. Owned a lexus too and the dealer experience is miles apart from Toyota. Turning up in a landcruiser at a Toyota dealer gets you dirty looks from all the planet hugging prius drivers.
100% agree! On the other hand the money value is declining very rapidly ! Our neighbor just listed their house on the market for $890K which they paid 380K four years ago.
That’s insane. I’m thankful our local market has sort of normalized with prices falling back to where they were at the beginning of the decade, but I know that’s not the case everywhere.
It’s a bubble that will have to pop. Most of the $ in the market is fake. It’s all debt held by debtors loaned by debtors. Once the dominos start to fall, they’ll fall hard and fast.
Listing isn’t selling.
@@matthewhuszarik4173 , the new cost of money will temper the shit out of those expectations.......
Oh boy, I can only imagine what the upcoming all new 4Runner is going to cost
Get the current model while you can!
Based on the Tacoma which is ridiculously expensive, I’m guessing A LOT. And I agree with @edmundcharles there, or find a nice heavily discounted GX460 if there are still any lying around.
I think it'll be the "cheapest" of the 3, but the higher trims like the TRD PRO will overlap significantly with the Land Cruiser. Getting the new gen of Fox Shocks, I've heard bigger brakes, optional active seats and arb bumpers will what separates it from the LC, unless LC gets a PRO Trim.
Thanks Josh. Love your content. Two things: 1) Thank you for validating my very recent purchase of a 22 GX460. Before buying, I wondered if we should just wait for the new Land Cruiser to become more available to buy. (I had already ruled out the GX 550 for price reasons). This video shows why I made the right move. There's no way I would have wanted to pay what the new Land Cruisers will cost. 2) As a designer, I applaud the excellent typography on your videos. You have a good eye sir.
Congrats on the new GX! I’m VERY happy that so many of us have been able to get one of these outgoing GXs new or almost new while we could. I think even if pricing had stayed close to the same I still would have wanted the V8 and our interior. And as a fellow designer (though I’m in upper management so this is my only real creative outlet now lol), I appreciate you noticing! ❤️
Good job on this one! I bought my 3rd GX (2023) in October realizing the value as compared to the new GX550. Keep up the good work!
That’s the way to go! Congrats and thank you!
This channel needs a lot more subscribers and tons more views. This info and frustration needs to hit a boat load of more potential buyers of new Toyota truck and SUVs. Toyota is inflating prices because they know how loyal a lot of their customer. Great video! Keep them coming!
Thank you for saying so! And I agree.
Love your rant! You speak for many of us friend.
Trim levels have really gotten absurd. Carmakers are essentially feature-tying midlevel trim features (eg: upgraded speakers) in super expensive packages, all but forcing you to buy the most expensive package to get the one or two things you actually want. Then you have companies like Kia who offer like 12 trim levels on certain vehicles, but most of them don't have the features you care about.
Yes! I completely agree. That’s my big complaint about the new GX. I wouldn’t buy a Lexus without Mark Levinson but now you HAVE to get a Luxury or Overtrail+ to even option it which means your starting price is up at $78K. That used to be an option on the $62K Premium Plus Model.
@@joshjamescars Then you have people like me who don't care about the sound system much at all, but to get remote start and heated seats you have to pay thousands of dollars for the bigger screen and better speakers.
This!!! I 100% agree with you, and I love your rants. ;). I've been trying to ask everyone "in the know", on social media, if this new Land Cruiser is overbuilt like the previous LC 200. And of course, no one can say it is, because it's not! It's not the OG Land Cruiser like you said. TFL channel keeps saying how it's 50k cheaper than the outgoing 2021 model. Absolutely ridiculous. But what do I know? Not sure what I'm going to do this summer, I might just surprise everyone around me and keep my GX 460. 😎
Love the stodgy old school GX 460 platform. Lexus should have kept this model another several years and also introduce a ‘Sports Version 460’ with a Prado front end, roof rack and minimal /no side rails!
Hello! Thanks as always for watching and suffering through my ranting! And I know, no one wants to talk about the reality of the situation. And here’s the thing-even if it is as overbuilt as our GXs and the old Land Cruisers, that still wouldn’t justify the price point IMO. Because a 4Runner today will last just as long and they don’t cost $75K. And I think you should definitely keep yours, even if you get one of these new ones. Though I’d also wait a year or two and let Toyota fix some of the teething issues I’m sure we’ll have in its early days.
@@joshjamescars Great point about the 4Runners! So true.
TFL is the most overrated channel. Tommy is a bright point, but their content is so incredibly dull and the hosts love to ramble.
Simple answer is no, these 250 series LC are not overbuilt as the 200 were. The 200 and now the 300 series are built at Yoshiwara Plant in the Toyota City, Japan alongside the LX and the 70 series land cruiser, I've heard the same rumor that they were built to last further than the 150K industry wide standard, something like double that. But this is done specifically at this plant. The GX and 4Runner are made at a different plant, and that's where the new models are being build. Still reliable but these never were and won't be the "overbuilt" models.
Preach brother, preach! When a car starts costing the same as a small home, we're in serious trouble. Basically all the car manufacturers are saying, 'bend over and say ah'.
Thank you for making this video, I’m a loyal Toyota user, but I am now priced out of the market, not sure what I’m gonna do. Thank you for this video again.
Bravo 👏 Well said! UA-cam needs voice like you!!! Massively underrated video and channel!
I’m from Canada, and I was excited for the new GX 550, then I found out the overtrail+ priced similarly as a well equipped Porsche cayenne! Now I’m cancelling my order not because I cannot afford it, but because the same reason you said in your video, I’m upset, maybe a little angry at Toyota/lexus. A longtime Toyota/lexus customer here.
Thank you so much! And yeah, it’s ridiculous for a midsize Toyota/Lexus SUV!? I think it’s smart to cancel your order-even for myself who could afford to buy one, I can’t see myself (to your point) spending Cayenne money on a Lexus GX! I’d rather spend a little more and get the Cayenne, LOL!
I’m sorry but with that ridiculously high price for a 4-cylinder engine on the Land Cruiser, I’ll go get the Honda Pilot Trailsport. At least I can get a naturally aspirated V6 that I know could be dogged around like a workhorse.
I can’t even fathom the idea of off-roading a $60k+ vehicle. Toyota is ridiculous!
And the whole reliability of Toyota’s new lineup vehicles is questionable. A LOT of recalls have occurred on their new trucks and Lexus vehicles.
Yes! I completely agree. And likewise at not being able to fathom off-reading a $60K vehicle. That’s why I always thought the 4Runner was such a great choice because you could buy one for $40K and it would do as well if not better than this Land Cruiser off-road.
@@joshjamescars What are your thoughts on their nee vehicles being recalled?
I think it’s an inevitable side effect of Toyota changing everything about these cars in such a short span of time. No automaker gets things 100% right on the first go, Toyota included. Especially these trucks that have an all-new platform, all-new engines, all-new transmissions, all-new technology, etc. and people who just have to be first to get these new vehicles so they can show off to their friends are going to have to also suffer through the growing pains as a result. For some people that’s worth it. For me, I’m sticking with my tried and true plug-in hybrid system in the Prime and V6 and V8 in our gas cars.
@@joshjamescars I wholeheartedly agree. The fact that Toyota has recalled more vehicles than Jeep did is unbelievable. As bad as Jeep and some Honda vehicles are, they at least stuck to their original recipe engine that’s been around for decades.
Toyota really nerfed their big trucks with 4-cylinder engines. Mechanics I spoke to said the bigger the car is, the more cylinders you need to drive and haul people/things around.
Mine as well buy a Ford maverick hybrid heaper!
I agree, Lexus and Toyota have become greedy in their pricing, and what was once an affordable vehicle has now become totally unaffordable and unacceptable. I am turning away from these once sought after brands.
Yes! I miss the days of Toyota being a great value.
KIA and Hyundai are available i would argue their reliability and warranty is very good ..we decided to buy a Santa Fe over RAV 4 and for 5 years it has been the best decision and savings..I will go for the middle - tier LC though in 3yrs when most of the kinks will be ironed out
Toyota has become greedy. A year ago, I brought my parents Highlander to aToyota Service Dealership for service, They told me the Highlander required a "special" battery costing $500. I asked, what made the battery so special?. They told me, because of the special electronics the Highlander is equipped with. I reported the service advisor when I was sent a survey. I bought the battery at Pep Boys.
In fairness, that is the dealer, and dealers have ALWAYS been scummy and willing to do anything to turn a buck. But dealers are independent and not affiliated with Toyota. But what you say here is another reason why I hate Toyota dealers and why I’d hate to have to buy my $75K Land Cruiser from them.
@@joshjamescars But they are affiliated with Toyota. Toyota can't control the dealers, but they can punish them for bad behavior.
You are absolutely right, totally agree with you
Thanks and thanks for watching!
GREAT VIDEO!!! Long term owner here as well and while I was really excited about both vehicles I refuse to pay the inflated prices. Hopefully Toyota will get the message when they see we’re unwilling to pay, come to their senses, and lower the prices. Again, great video!
Love this breakdown and I too was wondering why the prices have been shooting up so much!
This was an eye opener. Thank you!
You’re welcome and thanks for watching!
Thank you saying the obvious. I was a huge Toyota fan boy for years but switched to a 2023 Nissan Titan for the value and i actually love over driving the new Tundra
Well said and discussed Josh. I for one along with my other friends could not be more agreeable with you! They have forgot what brought them on the map and possibly they feel that they are getting close to their dominancy of car market so, they behave the way they have.
I agree with you 100% we have bought 5 toyota and lexus but are now looking at Infinty qx60 and maybe the coming 2025 acura mdx what do you think?
I think those two are great. I’d probably lean MDX just because of the Honda association but I think the QX60 is bigger and it looks more luxurious. Nissan’s VQ-series V6 is also nearly as legendary as Toyota’s GR V6.
Gouging will only stop when people stop paying it. 11:56 you hit the nail on the head here ! I agree 100%. Who cares about reliability when it costs you the cost of two engine replacements on any other vehicle? lol not to mention we absolutely do not know if the new turbo generation of Toyotas will even be reliable. Great video!
I test drove a GX550 Premium and actually prefer the smoothness of my '17 GX460 Premium's drivetrain. I can def feel the turbo lag in the 550. My 460's 1URFE runs like a jet turbine at 128k miles. Interior still looks, feels, and works like new. I bought for a disgustingly low price, certified used, several years ago.
You are so spot-on with this. My next vehicle will be a 200 series LX570 (likely 18-22). The 550 still doesn't feel or drive as luxuriously as the later 570's that I have driven.
Yep! I know exactly what you mean. I drove one of the new 4 cylinder RXs recently and it’s exactly the same way. For the money, you might want to consider buying a brand new 2023 GX as some dealers still have stock left that they’re selling with huge discounts. Personally I’d rather have that than a used LX and then drive it for the next 25 years!
@@joshjamescars I actually thought about this, but I actually do need the extra space of the LX570 over even the slightly-bigger GX550. I'm in Texas, so the vehicles down here live a pretty easy life with full dealer maintenance.
Great show 😊 ! I just purchased a 2024 4Runner Limited, I traded in my trusty Ford F150 truck . I am so far pretty happy with the purchase and I like the 4Runner for its reliability and durability . Do you know if there is a new 4Runner coming out soon ?
Congrats on the new 4Runner! We should be seeing a new one coming out this year as a 2025 model, but it will share a lot with the new Tacoma and Land Cruiser including the 4-cylinder engines and likely will not have a full time 4WD system, so I think you made the right decision buying yours when you did.
Great vid. Btw, care to hint at what you do for a living to be able to buy a 4Runner and GX in the last 5 years? No pressure though. Cheers!
Oh I’ve been pretty open about that! :) I am very fortunate work in software engineering and design for a Fortune 500 company and my husband works in the semiconductor industry and we also don’t have any kids. And thank you!
Hi Josh. Love your videos! What do you think about the Subaru Wilderness Outlook? I’m a senior looking to buy a new car and the cars you critiqued were ones I was thinking of buying. But I cannot justify the price that is equivalent to a huge down payment of a house used for a car unless I will live in the car for the rest of my life.
I love the Outback! I actually used to own an Outback, years ago, when they had the 6-cylinder engine and I loved it. There’s a lot about the Outback that reminds me of my GX. The surefooted feeling of the full-time 4WD system (Subaru Symmetrical AWD), the planted feeling on the highway, etc. The Wilderness looks really great too, but definitely check out the other trims. My pick would be the XT Touring just because I like the brown leather interior option and the more urban styling but if you plan to go off-roading, you can’t beat the Wilderness! Hope this helps!
So glad you mentioned the ridiculous price of the base Land Cruiser over 55k. Like you said, you get a rental car version of the vehicle. It’s crazy and all the reviewers act like it’s a reasonable price
Seriously! And you can’t even option that trim with anything to make it even a little bit nicer.
solid video boss somebody get this man a sponsor
Thank you! I enjoy being an independent channel though, not beholden to anyone. :)
I agree, Toyota has started to abuse it's reputation - ultimately to its detriment. I opted for an Isuzu Dmax which gives me comparable reliability with more features for $6k-$8k less!
Love the video man. Subbed. I agree with everything you said.
Thank you! And welcome aboard!
What do you think of the Nissan Armada or the upscale Infinity Qx80? I'm not too keen on the reliability of the Jeep products.
I think they’re great! I personally would not spend the premium on the Infiniti since the Nissan’s cabin is literally identical now but those are two to get before they go to a twin turbo V6 which is rumored for the next generation.
Nice review. Thanks! I completely agree.
Thanks for watching!
Unfortunately it's not just Toyota, its the general attitude of entire automotive industry.
Josh, just found your channel and really appreciate your thoughts. I'm looking to get a midsize SUV with AWD now, and am comparing a few options. Could you make a video about your thoughts on the pricing and comparison of the Mazda CX-50, Honda CR-V, Subaru Outback, and toyota RAV4?
Hello! I would personally count the CX50 out right away. It’s had lower than average reliability and I found the seats to be really hard. The Outback is a great choice but is much bigger than the others you mention which are compact vacuoles; the Outback is a midsize vehicle. The Forester would be the direct competitor to the others-the forester is a great choice too, btw! The nice thing about the CR-V and RAV4 are that you can get a hybrid which is how I would go. Both are well priced and really efficient as well. The CR-V hybrid I think looks, feels, and drives like a more premium vehicle, but the Rav hybrid offers far more features (like a panoramic moonroof, 360 camera, head up display, wireless CarPlay, etc.)
Amazing down to earth view thanks for seeing reality.
Thanks for watching!
what is your opinion of the new Tacoma Trail Hunter? Capable, value??
Given that a TRD Off Road tops out at $55K I’m guessing the trail hunter will be in the mid-60s especially with accessories and that’s just way too much for a Tacoma IMO. BUT, with that it’s worth considering how much it would cost to outfit a Tacoma to be that way aftermarket. So there might be more of a value proposition there but it all depends on the price.
Spot on- again! I am so glad that I did not purchase the GX550 vice the previous GX460 model. Yes- the new Land Cruiser should be a $50-$65K vehicle at most and fully loaded at that price range.
Yes!! Exactly. And great choice with the 460!
From the number of reactions it is quite visible that you are not alone. My thought process was quite similar than yours but when I saw the configurator I couldn't believe my eyes. A First Edition Toyota for 76 K! I did the exercise in building my Land Cruiser what I'd not consider top model and it came out around 70K. Then my decision going with a GX 460 2023 model seemed quite reasonable plus a V8 versus a 4 cylinder engine. A friend of mine said to this outrageous pricing: don't worry. There will be plenty of buyers who don't care...this US. There might some truth in that.
Same! I’m so happy that I bought my 2023 GX460 as well. And yes, sadly there are people who will pay the price because they need to have the latest and greatest and more power to them. I’ll be using my money on better things. 😂
Great video, and made some solid points. I agree, its tough to see the pricings on all of these Yotas and Lexus vehicles continue to skyrocket - and for what? I am an avid "fanboy" of Toyota products, but these prices are not making want to trade what I have. IMO.
Same here! I definitely won’t be trading what I have for anything new.
Nar your completely right price for this is out of control I really really want one but can't justify the price either. I'll be doing what many of us Toyota owners are doing and keeping what I have, happily.
I'm not sure if you seen the latest TFL video on the new Tacoma, but it looks like they blew the transfer case in mild trail riding... Certainly calls into question the TNGA platform that almost all of these vehicles will share in some capacity. Not only are they much more expensive, but is the quality of materials and MFG process even similar to the outgoing? Like you, I'm on my 7th new Toyota/Lexus vehicle I've bought new in the last decade. Starting to think the haydays may be passing us by with the LC200/GX460/5.7 Tundra and 4Runner V6. Might be wise to start finding low mileage, single owner samples with clear maintenance history vehicles and sit on them....
Whoa! No I had not seen that but I will definitely be checking it out! Also validates my belief that even with Toyota vehicles it’s always good to wait a year or two for them to work out all the kinks… though that’s pretty bad. And then over on Car Confections their new Santa Fe with 27 miles needed a new transmission. SMH. I will be keeping my tried and true aged Toyota for the rest of my life at this point.
Per TFL it was something to do with the front differential actuator...but still concerning
You are 100 percent correct in your analysis. I've been saying this as well. Toyota has let their reliability record completely go to their head, and has now realized that we Toyota Truck and SUV fans will blindly buy anything they put out. I guess part of this, is the truck market in North America overall, the prices for Trucks, really across all Manufactures has become comical. F-150's, Rams ETC. for over 90-100k is bat shit insane. And people are buying them!!
I think Toyota can latch on to this trend and make Gimmicky re-boots of classic vehicles, and people will salivate over them. But like you said, the new LC is just a 4runner with a Turbo 4 and some flashy new Infotainment. - Great videos BTW. love the channel!
YEP, agreed at the prices of all trucks. Here in Texas we still seem to have some good discounts ($10-$15 off most half ton trucks) but still way, way higher than they used to be. And thanks as always for watching!!
Liked and subscribed! Great perspective! Thank you!
Thank you and welcome aboard!
Hi Josh, thank you for the courage of saying things aloud. Raising msrps 36% after Covid and putting a vehicle "average" buy price at $47k USD is absolutely ridiculous. I am in the second year of deciding among mazda cx50, Lexus NX350h and believe it or not Hundai Santacruz. Santacruz has to go as I cannot accept nonstop reliability issues, but is lexus worth 10_15k cad over Mazda is a big question. I was hoping Toyota Crown Signia will be a nice buy in summer. Scratching my head further...
Hello! The CX-50 has had some reliability issues so that’s worth considering based on what you say about your Santa Cruz. And I think the NX is a great car but it’s expensive and also much smaller than your Santa Cruz and the Crown Signia so it also depends what size class you want.
And the other thing, they’re making many vehicles in Mexico now and charging the same price when their labor costs are half of what they are in Japan (and their QC)
Do you only buy your Toyotas/Lexus beans new? Or would you ever consider buying pre-owned (by like a couple yrs)?
We typically do buy new but I would absolutely consider buying one certified pre owned if it was something I couldn’t get new like a 2022 RX with the V6 or if I needed to replace my GX I’d probably look for a CPO 2023 GX. But if you do, be sure to have it inspected by an independent mechanic (not the dealer it’s being sold by).
The RX has always been my dream car 😍I’m curious why did you single out 2022 RX? I would have loved to get the RX plug in but the price is not worth it. Can’t justify the price especially with the lower quality Lexus nowadays
Josh, make sure to share your thoughts about upcoming mini landcruiser
I’m skeptical about that, I imagine it’ll be similar to the Suzuki Jimny in that we won’t get it here in the US market. I think our lineup is going to be full with the new 4Runner coming too.
Great commentary! You've hit the nail on the head, I think the pricing are "predatory". We all agree these new generation of vehicles are great, so in order to own them at reasonable price, a better strategy might be to wait and buy low mile used vehicles. You always see lease returns pop up with same year vehicles with less than 5k miles. You did a very great comparison showing the LACK of justification for the prices, I understand new vehicles comes with new mechanical tech, but the heated seats, JBL ect should not be costing that much, all of that stuff should be standard on these LCs and GX.
I own both a 22 4Runner and 16 GX. Which btw our 22 4Runner cost 53k MSRP, I was shocked to hear your 19 was only 46! I bet there is very few changes in my 22 to justify 6k increases. It got blind-spot monitoring and Android Auto, that's probably it. I would still buy the new GX over the LC, just based on experiences with my vehicles. The Mark Levingston in Lexuses is a huge improvement, its an amazing system, that competes with other big name brands, JBL is simply trash, i'm sorry, its slightly better than stock speakers. And second biggest thing other than a V6 in the GX, is the Lexus dealer experience. I get the same treatment with my 16GX as I get at any BMW or Mercedes dealership bringing in 100k cars for service. Buying a 75k vehicle and not even getting a loaner car for an oil change is no-go, when Lexus tech bended over backwards to get me loaner new GX when I brought my 30k 2016 GX for an aligment.
Combined with inflation, this reduces the buying power for customer. If you can afford to buy an 80K vehicle tomorrow you should be looking at something like BMW X5 with a TT V8 or 6cyl minimum under the hood or equivalent luxury SUVs, NOT and slightly bigger 4 runner with a 4cyl. Which is the risk Toyota might run onto, is that some loyalists will be looking else where to spend their 80k. A 600hp luxury German SUV sounds way better.
Yes! Agree with everything here especially your comments on the Lexus dealership experience vs. Toyota dealer experience! As for my 4Runner, I bought right before Covid happened and that was the time when dealers were still desperate to move cars and so you could still negotiate a vehicle down to invoice plus a few bucks. So the MSRP on my 4Runner was actually closer to $51K I think but the dealer was desperate to move it so they gave it to me for that price. Then the 4Runner had two massive price increases in 2021 for the addition of LED headlights and again in 2022 for the 360 cam. Which I thought was absurd but it benefited me as I was able to sell mine last year for $50K. So in 4 years my 4Runner actually appreciated which was amazing. I miss it but it was the right time and to make a profit and get 4 years of free driving was worth letting it go.
That’s why I’m still hanging on to my J150 with the 1GR V6. While you still can save yourself and get the cousin, the 4Runner Limited in Pearl White. The end 😊
Josh spot on! I agree with what you said. You bringing out your toy Prado at the back brought a smile to my face haha!
Yes! I love your 150 Prado and agree completely with getting the 4Runner Limited! And of course! That’s my favorite little model car :)
I was just thinking about the cost over time if I bought another brand. I could spend $10k on repairs and still pay less for a new Toyota. Great points in this video!
You are so correct in your assessment of the new LC and GX. We have a 18 LC and a 21 GX. Neither Toyota nor Lexus will tempt us to replace what we have with what they are now offering. Prior Toyotas a 2011 4Runner Trail and 2010 Highlander Limited 4wd with combined touble free 550K miles. Expect our LC and GX to duplicate if not double that number.
Could not agree more! Everything you say here is why we decided to pull the trigger on my V8 GX and our V6 Camry. And why nothing in their lineup is really attractive to me anymore. I love the Proven reliability and absolutely buttery smooth driving of the old GR-series V6 and UR-series V8. I also had a 2012 Highlander 4WD! Not the Limited but it was one below so same interior but without the nicer wheels and chrome finishes.
Great video. I totally agree. I just recently bought a 2023 Lexus GX460 Premium Plus. I love it. I am not paying that price for a new GX or Land Cruiser either.
Congrats! I think ours will be future classics for sure.
Great points… I’m a long time Toyota fan (vehicles and company) but I’ve been pretty disappointed in the rollout of the new 250 in the states
I agree 110% with you Josh! I need to buy a new car next year (my younger son will inherit my car when he goes to college). I had wanted to buy a Lexus RX350, but between the price going through the roof and Lexus moving away from their traditional buyers who want luxury (following the general trend to placate car reviewers who - unlike you - generally rate cars on how sporty they are), I've decided to look elsewhere. It would be great if you reviewed some of the Genesis products, as I think they are aiming where Lexus used to be (and are a much better value - not so much cheaper, but you get more for your money). The other option I am seriously considering is foregoing a new car and actually going for a Mercedes 300D Turbodiesel wagon - I love the look, the luxury of the ride, the decent mileage and how virtually indestructible they are (no worries about having to replace hybrid batteries or screens that control everything in your car - cannot get anything analog today!). Thanks for your rant and listening to mine! 😃
I actually have a review of the turbo RX350 coming out next week! And personally I would not buy it.
Genesis is okay but be sure to do your homework on the depreciation of them and Hyundai/Kia’s sketchy record when it comes to fixing problems for customers. Right now, Genesis actually depreciates faster and harder than the Germans because we don’t have any long-term data on dependability or customer desirability. Will anyone want a 5-year old Genesis? We don’t really know. On the customer service front, Hyundai/Kia burned a lot of people on the Theta 2 engine debacle and the whole “Kia boys” theft ring. Neither of those affect Genesis but it’s worth noting how they treated customers who were affected. Both times, MANY class action lawsuits had to be filed before the company reluctantly started to do something to fix the issues. Something else most car reviewers don’t ever talk about.
And it’s funny you mention the MB Turbodiesel because I was thinking while reading your comment that you might want to go used because you could search for a really nice 2022 RX350 or 2023 GX460!
Enjoyed your commentary Josh! I largely agree , a margin grab for sure! I’m relatively new to the Toyota experience, I own a 21 Rav 4 Prime , and previously a base SR5 Tacoma 4x4. Previous to that Hondas, Chevys and run of the mill company cars . In Canada we have not yet got the pricing for the new Land Cruiser , but if I extrapolate and see the price differences (exchange) in Canada vs USA on the : 4 Runner, Tacoma , Lexus GX , Tundra …… …then I can estimate in Canada the 1958 Land Cruiser will be between $72-76 k CDN. Very high indeed!
But I have to say the resale ,reliability ,and quality will likely keep me with the Toyota brands. Jeep Grand Cherokees plummet in value by comparison, and Stellantis is using a lot more Italian, French engineering components???
Keep up the great videos…..and if you really want to see overpricing, and under engineering ,check out new pontoon boats….70’s technology using : aluminum pontoons, plywood, Vinyl, with a 200 hp Merc hanging off the back for $100k CDN. 😮
Thank you! And thank you for watching! I also know Toyota isn’t sending the base 1958 model to Canada for some reason so your lineup will start with the “Land Cruiser” trim I built in the video. Also yes, Stellantis is using more Italian and French components but for me the fact that the Grand Cherokee still has the Mopar V6 and Hemi V8 options are appealing.
Interesting. They have had the 1958 edition on the Canadian site since the initial announcement and several outlets are saying that one is going to start at $69,290cdn from just a few days ago.
@Bonjurro Oh that’s interesting! I remember Zack and Andrea of Motormouth saying that you weren’t getting that one! Maybe Toyota changed its mind so they could say that the model as a whole has a lower starting price, LOL.
canadian pricing is available from Marcelo on the “toyota world” youtube channel if you are interested.
I agree .I own two Prado,s . Both petrol V6 models . Super reliable great cars . In my country the new one costs almost double what a Pajero Sport is .
I totally agree. I was just making many of these same points to my wife this morning. I even picked many of the same options on my dream new Land Cruiser. My only disagreement is with your wheel choice. I'm not a fan of large rims, especially when they are silver.
Haha we have good taste! ;) And the 20” wheels are actually a dark gunmetal finish not silver. I’ve seen the stock wheels in person and I personal was not a fan. But they’re not bad.
You are absolutely right. I have been buying new Toyotas for years. First time I am considering buying a used one due to inflated pricing and global shift to turbo engines.
Yep! I’m so glad I got my GX new. Not interested in their prices or new turbo engines.
Thanks for speaking up. THeyll eventually realize this pricing mistake
Finally a voice of reason!
Makes me even more happy that i have a 2022 FJ Cruiser.
Right on, brother. I have a 2019 GX 460 too, and this kills me. I wanted to buy a new Land Cruiser, but now I think I'll just lift my GX and put some bumpers on to gain more ground clearance.
Or if you can, just buy a 4Runner TRD Off Road to have alongside it since I’d imagine you own that outright at this point!
Thanks for being real!
Thanks for watching!
Absolutely agree with everything mentioned here. The Land Cruiser is a perplexing purchase, and this is coming from a long-time fan of the car. I was shocked at the value the GX (both 460 and 550) seemed to provide in comparison.
Yes! Same here! I also think the GX is overpriced when you look at what you have to pay to get the features most people will want but you’re right that it seems to provide more value than the Land Cruiser.
I couldn’t agree with you more. It’s very sad what Toyota and Lexus are doing. These types of pricing will definitely cause them to loose their loyal lexus base. As the owner of a 2018 GX 460 and a 2019 Es 300h, I will have to look elsewhere when considering to upgrade. It’s very very unfortunate and I hope that Lexus/Toyota and all the other car companies realize this, otherwise folks will just continue to keep their current vehicles. The car crash has already started to happen with Porsche and it’s a matter of time, before the same happens with Toyota and Lexus, unless they take a proactive and strategic approach to sell more new vehicles and keep their loyal fan base.
Yes! Completely agree here, and am hoping to keep my Rav Prime and GX for as long as they’ll run since I don’t see Toyota/Lexus ever coming back around to the kinds of cars they used to make (or the value that they used to be). Lexus has also said that they intend to be a fully BEV automaker by 2030 so we’ll have to see how that pans out for them too.
I agree with you. I have a 4runner but i am not going to pay these high prices for another one.
This is all so true!
Totally agree. Just traded my 2015 4Runner for a new one for similar reasons. Wanted to get one of the last 5th gens before they strip it down to a turbo 4 while simultaneously raising the price.
Yep! Same thought I had in trading my 4Runner for my GX, knowing both were going to get downgraded engines and upgraded prices.
@@joshjamescars The TFL video this week of the new Tacoma snapping a CV on the trail is a great example. Toyota's legendary reputation for quality seems to be plummeting on these newer vehicles.
Excellent breakdown. There was a time in the world when businesses rewarded the consumer for their litalty with lower/stabilizeed pricing. Today, the inverse is true. Consumers are punished with higher prices as the product popularity goes up. We are living in a backwards universe. Only pragmatic, lucid, non-zombies will vote with their wallets. Great job.
Could not agree more! Cheers!
It's greed man everyone wants to make money nowadays since life is becoming more unaffordable!
Awesome video appreciate the raw honesty, spitting comparable facts that others are too afraid to say.
Thank you!
Spot on. I just about choked when I started playing with the builder and realized... the build I would do for a Land Cruiser, put me squarely matched on price with a GX550 Overtrail. Holy sh*t!
If you want another laugh, price out a 24 Tacoma Off Road with the faux leather seats and detachable swaybar. What I was gunning for hit $57k.... "TSRP".
Frankly, I think Toyota lost its mind.
Choked is a great word! I did the same! And oh I know not to mention they seem scared to even release pricing on the TRD Pro and Trail Hunter grades.
The Land Cruiser premium pack up here in Canda starts at 83.3k. And our tax is 13%. Even the Toyota sales guy shook his head wondering WTF. I was in the dealership to ask about the price of the Crown Signia. Now we get the pleasure to see the new 4Runner this week. I wonder what that is going to look like and how it's going to be priced.
Before tax yours is cheaper but after tax it’s about the same doing a dollar to dollar currency conversion. But yeah, it’s unfortunate all around!
I’m with you. I’ve owned many Toyotas, two 80 series LC. I currently have an FJ with about 80,000 miles. I’ve been tempted to trade it for Pro FourRunner but can’t get around pricing. Really don’t want the new turbo editions.
I think your FJ Cruiser is really special. But I can understand wanting to buy a new 4Runner and honestly even though the prices are sky high, they hold their value (like your FJ). I bought mine in 2019 and sold it 4 years later for around $5K more than I paid for it new. So, that to say, if you buy one now, you won’t be out too much money if you want/need to sell it down the line. And I absolutely think the 4Runner is worth buying before the V6 goes away.
Josh, I have watch many of your videos since my interest (and now ownership) of the 2023 GX developed. And, I quickly noticed it seems you have owned many quite expensive vehicles in a short period of time. So, I was just wondering what you and your wife do for a living? I think it comes from my wife and I making a pretty good living, yet the new GX was a very real extreme luxury for us (mainly me), and considering I am a pretty old fart (66) I am trying to figure out if it is partly my frugal nature or you guys just make quite a bit more than we do. And I will add, I live in the part of the country (rural southeast) where the cost of living is probably as cheap as anywhere in the US.
Hello! Great question! I am in the software design and engineering, and my husband is in the semiconductor (microchip) industry. And I agree, the GX was a luxury for us as well given that I was 30 when I bought it, but the price of my GX is somewhere around 25% of my individual total annual income. And even with our total household income we’re still firmly middle class here in Austin! Go figure.
In regard to the cars we’ve bought and sold, we have also just been able to buy cars that are super desirable and thus didn’t depreciate. I actually sold the NX350h and the Prius for exactly what I paid for them and didn’t take a loss on either because at the time we sold each you couldn’t get what I had without waiting for 6-8 months and so people were willing to pay over asking price on the used market. And then I also actual made a PROFIT off of my 4Runner TRD Pro which I bought for $46,500 in 2019 and then sold in 2023 for $50,000 and all that cash went right into my GX.
Anyway, thanks as always for watching!
You are 💯 percent correct about this newest Land Cruiser.
I completely agree! Since 2019, the auto market has increased dramatically. During the covid times, car dealerships completely took advantage of car buyers in the used markets. Now, post covid, I feel auto manufacturers saw what had happened with used car prices, so now they’re taking advantage of new car buyers. What’s the answer, don’t buy them….i know, that maybe easier said than done for many. If you bought that same 4Runner TRD pro today, you would pay around $57,000. The 4 Runners haven’t changed much in the 15 years of the 5th generation. I’m really waiting to see what the pricing will be on the 6th gen 4Runners. The Tacoma prices are insane and not many seemed to be buying them. Time will tell…..might be time to look at a KIA Telluride…. Reliability matters, no doubt, but it matters more if I plan to keep it for more than 7 years, which I don’t usually do. Keep making your videos!
Yep! Completely agrrr with everything you say here.
This video is 100% spot on. Toyota doesn't really do web orders either. Tundra was a defect mess. When I think of Toyota now, I think "Customer last: OK Quality and High Dealer Markups". The damage is done.
100% agreed, and absolutely with the tundra being a defect mess. That’s still going on with the transmission recall on it, the Sequoia, and LX600.
100% agree!!
Love the humility!!! Yeah Toyota supersized the bill, much more than we ever imagined.
Agree 💯, a Lexus GX550 Overtrail trim in Canada is over $100k CAD. The Landcruiser price hasn't been released up here, however I suspect it will start at $68k for the base 1958 edition.
Hello! Your pricing went live right after ours. Starts at $69 and goes up to $90 for the First Edition. Check out the Canada press release here: media.toyota.ca/en/releases/2024/toyota-canada-announces-pricing-for-all-new-2024-toyota-land-cru.html
Josh, where did you got your 4runner hat from??.
Thanks! That was from the dealer last year when they were celebrating the 40th anniversary of the 4Runner. At the time I still had my TRD Pro and they gave it to me when I took it in for service!
I suppose we are headed into toyota’s dark era (it was bound to happen) - and nobody seems to notice thanks to these vapid automotive journalists that just echo the same talking points about Toyota’s reliability, etc. I’m not sure why they seem to overshadow what is so glaringly obvious to long-time consumers as far as declining materials quality and the price gouging that isn’t appropriately adjusted for inflation.
Moira’s scream was absolutely perfect lol
I completely agree… and it’s so sad. And I couldn’t agree more about these so called automotive journalists. I honestly think they have confused journalism and consumer advice for advertising. But who wouldn’t want to fly to Hawaii and stay at a five star hotel on Toyota’s dime.
Same. Tempted to just go back and look for cream puff earlier models I enjoyed from before.
I think that’s a great idea especially before more people think to do that too. There are a number of these that I think will be future classics.
Thanks so much for posting this. I have two thoughts about this new pricing: 1 - Toyota just decided to take the profits, being made by the dealers in markups, for themselves. Pricing for new TRD pros and other models have been higher for years due to markups, so this new MSRP pricing will not allow dealers to post those crazy $10-15k markups (of course they can try, but now an Overtrail+ with that sort of markup would be 100k). 2 - In looking at comments on the new LC or GX I rarely see an existing owner saying anything positive about the pricing - we all know the outstanding value of the previous-generation Toyota/Lexus trucks - even the old 200 series LC, at 95K out the door, was an amazing vehicle (I test drove it). These new trucks? Expensive, and I am seeing a series of recalls by Toyota this week - a very onerous sign indeed :(
Sadly we’re already seeing dealers and distributors adding crap on top of these GXs. Check out this post on Reddit that someone posted of their allocation. It had $9K of accessories on top of an Overtrail and literally was $104K. I would have laughed myself out of the dealer: www.reddit.com/r/LexusGX/s/EeQsG1vG4e
@@joshjamescarsThanks for sharing - looks like Lexus and its dealers are trying to move more upscale, into Land Rover territory, leaving folks like us behind. To be determined if they will be successful - with this strategy they don't have to focus as much on reliability, as Land Rover consistently ranks very low on the reliability scale in any case.
Yes.
New prices on another level.
The used inventory is still good.
Less gimmicky tech.
Cheaper repairs.
Ford 6.0 gang here.
Excursion never dies.
This video deserve more view
I agree with you man..Used to be a Toyota guy here, two 4 runners and one Prado..suddenly 4Rs and Prados prices went up like rockets and 0 stock...and also that poor gas efficiency makes me crazy...now I am super happy with my 2023 2,5 Forester Sport and my 22 Jimny...both made in japan and both very very handy...love Toyota but prices are insane here and service is even more pricey,..I mean 400 US for an oil and filter change, cmon now..
Oh I love the Jimny. If we could buy one here, I’d have one. And I love the Forester, too! I had an Outback at one point and it was great. Also, where are you where an oil change is $400!?
@@joshjamescars In the land where Hilux (and not Tacos or Tundras) are Toyota´s most important vehicles.....Toyota´s services are very expensive here in the very south (Chile..)
My local SoCal Lexus dealers are selling the new GX 550s starting at $103k for the basic model and it goes up from there.
Yep. And there’s an idiot born every minute who will pay that.
Completely agree
Hi Josh, I enjoy watching 14:20 your video. I agree with you totally. I am glad I purchased the 2023 GX460 in June. If I need to pay $75K plus market adjustment for the brand new toyota Land Cruiser, I’d rather to switch to another brand. With the new electronic gadget, it won’t be cheap to repair even for toyota. That is why I stick with the old school SuV
Glad you were able to get the GX460 while you could! I’ll be holding onto mine for as long as it will run.
Thankyou Josh! I feel the same way. Such a shame, because I love Toyota and lexus. I also believe the GX 460 and 5th gen 4runner provided amazing value for the $$. I purchased my 5th gen 24 trd pro 4runner bc I knew prices for the next 4runner would be stupid, and they would slap a 4cy in it and charge $75k. Same thing for the Tacoma, prices on the new ones are BONKERS, can’t fathom paying $50k+ for a TRD off-road or Trd sport when 3rd gen pros were $50k with options!
Could not agree more! I’m also starting to see the 24 TRD Pros and I’m so glad that one is sticking around for this year since my GX is now gone. And completely agree at the pricing on the new Tacoma. Outrageous, for a Tacoma! That used to be one of the cheapest cars you could buy, period.
pricing is bad for consumers :-( but good for toyota shareholders :-). Like it or not, toyota management’s number 1 priority is to maximize profit for shareholders. And if I had to guess, production capacity will be limited and toyota is simply pricing the land cruiser at the estimated point where they think the demand will equal supply. Having toyota remain financially strong also allows them to continue to invest in desirable future products.
This is all completely true and I hope that investment in the future yields some better products than what we’re getting today.
US dollar to Japanese Yen is now around $1 to 150 yen.. Japanese manufacturer will make the big profit in next few years partly due to very favorable exchange rate.
Keep in mind that the purpose of the new TNGA platform is simplification of the many platforms Toyota used to built.
This will have a huge economic impact on the cost of building new vehicles under a simplified platform.
Is that savings being passed on to the loyal consumer?
No! On the contrary, a huge increase of more than 20% has been added to the final cost of these newly release model vehicles.
So I gues I am keeping my 2020 4R TRD OR until I die.
I paid $40,000.00 out the door for it.
There is no way I could afford to pay dbl or more for a baby LC 250 let alone a GX 550
The "250" is so deceptive as it would indicate it is a bit better than the 200 LC but less than the 300 LC.
Let's think about the prices for the upcoming 6th gen 4R.
The problem is people will pay whatever Toyota ask for their vehicles so it leaves people like us that want to watch how we expend our hard earned money in a dificult situation.
However, I would never buy a Jeep Grand Cherokee. I looked into buying one but relaiabily drove me to Toyota.
Completely agree with everything! However, if you’re unable to get over a less reliable vehicle, you’ll be stuck paying the prices for Toyota. I’ve had Fords, Volvos, and other less reliable cars and Toyota reliability isn’t the be-all, end-all for me.
Yup. On the money. What’s most frustrating is, from what I’ve heard, the first 5000 trucks off the assembly line (destined for the US) are the first editions. Then, I’ve heard production numbers won’t be as high as the GX, so limited supply will keep up the prices. So, as my 04 landcruiser tries to die, I’m constantly considering what to buy. I don’t know the answer. The Jeep is interesting. And with a warranty, they only problem with reliability will be visits to the dealer, theoretically.
Oh wow I hadn’t heard that but I also wouldn’t be surprised. I believe the same is true of Lexus (that the first ones out will be the most expensive). I think you might want to see if you can find a 2023 GX while you still can and snatch it up. You could sell it in a few years if you end up wanting the new one. But I think it’s the closest thing you can get to your 04 Land Cruiser.
@@joshjamescars yes. Wife has a 17 GX. It drives more like my LC than an 08 LC I bought then sold 6 mos later. The 08 (first of the last gen 200 series) was a beast to drive. Not sure about later models of the 200 series.
@steveh545 Oh yeah, the 200 series was a much bigger vehicle and definitely more of a handful. Great car but the LC 200 and LX570 would have been too big for me.
good talk 👍