Hey everyone! Just a note for those of you saying that this is simply inflation, it’s far beyond that. Here are the facts: in 2009 when the GX460 launched, it started at just under $48K. In 2023 the starting price was just under to $59K. That increase means that the GX460 WAS ADJUSTING FOR INFLATION over its generational run (which is normal). What is NOT NORMAL is the ~20% increase we are seeing in A SINGLE MODEL YEAR from the 2023 GX460 to the 2024 GX550 (that 20% being the difference between two comparably equipped models such as my 2023 Premium Plus at $64K and a 2024 Luxury at $77K). Thus, the increase simply NOT all to blame on inflation. And thank you all for watching! The engagement and discussion here is so validating that my opinions are not out of line amongst actual Toyota SUV owners.
I live in The Netherlands. Over here, the mid spec landcruiser (professional spec) is currently being sold for €167,000 (usd 177,000). I think Toyota has lost their damn minds.
Seriously!!! Most (not all) of the automotive media are just advertising outlets for the brands these days that don’t want to bite the hands that feed them.
Totally agree. This is just the 1st step (MSRP from the manufacturer), the dealers are taking from you for the 2nd step. Guess what? The new GX550 in Southern California has 15% mark up, lol
After I heard that the the new Land Cruiser was coming out as a 2.4 liter 4 cylinder turbo. I went out looking for a 2019-2021 Land Cruiser, but those were already inflated selling for $80K-90K for 40k mile range, ridiculous! I went out and bought a 2019 LX570 for $58.k. Could not be happier!
Damn smart move! I bought 2 460s in 2022 and probably should have bought a previous gen Land Cruiser and LX 570. We’re seriously thinking about getting a 24 runner before they trash that vehicle as well.
Appreciate you keeping it real... a lot of car UA-camrs get numb to these high prices. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should buy an over-priced vehicle. I was waiting on the GX550 but not I'm 99% sure I'll be buying a 2022 or 2023 GX460. Better value there IMO.
Thank you! And I completely agree! I think the other perception I get from these UA-camrs I see is that they make the assumption that if make the money to (truly) afford an $80K car you don’t care about how expensive it is but to your point, that’s just not right. I also think a lot of them don’t want to bite the hand that sends them to five star hotels in Hawaii for free.
100% agree! On the other hand the money value is declining very rapidly ! Our neighbor just listed their house on the market for $890K which they paid 380K four years ago.
That’s insane. I’m thankful our local market has sort of normalized with prices falling back to where they were at the beginning of the decade, but I know that’s not the case everywhere.
It’s a bubble that will have to pop. Most of the $ in the market is fake. It’s all debt held by debtors loaned by debtors. Once the dominos start to fall, they’ll fall hard and fast.
This channel needs a lot more subscribers and tons more views. This info and frustration needs to hit a boat load of more potential buyers of new Toyota truck and SUVs. Toyota is inflating prices because they know how loyal a lot of their customer. Great video! Keep them coming!
Thanks Josh. Love your content. Two things: 1) Thank you for validating my very recent purchase of a 22 GX460. Before buying, I wondered if we should just wait for the new Land Cruiser to become more available to buy. (I had already ruled out the GX 550 for price reasons). This video shows why I made the right move. There's no way I would have wanted to pay what the new Land Cruisers will cost. 2) As a designer, I applaud the excellent typography on your videos. You have a good eye sir.
Congrats on the new GX! I’m VERY happy that so many of us have been able to get one of these outgoing GXs new or almost new while we could. I think even if pricing had stayed close to the same I still would have wanted the V8 and our interior. And as a fellow designer (though I’m in upper management so this is my only real creative outlet now lol), I appreciate you noticing! ❤️
Based on the Tacoma which is ridiculously expensive, I’m guessing A LOT. And I agree with @edmundcharles there, or find a nice heavily discounted GX460 if there are still any lying around.
Thank you for calling out the new ”Land Cruiser” for what it is: a Land Cruiser Prado! Too many people are totally delusional about what they’re getting.
I think Toyota would have been best served by making Land Cruiser a trim level for all of their trucks in America. Get a 4Runner Land Cruiser, Taco Land Cruiser, and Tundra Land Cruiser.
I own a top line Prado from 2021 , my dealer is trying to offer me the new landcruiser at £25000 more than I paid for my 3 year old car. Apart from the tonka toy body the upgrades are not worth it. Owned a lexus too and the dealer experience is miles apart from Toyota. Turning up in a landcruiser at a Toyota dealer gets you dirty looks from all the planet hugging prius drivers.
Bravo 👏 Well said! UA-cam needs voice like you!!! Massively underrated video and channel! I’m from Canada, and I was excited for the new GX 550, then I found out the overtrail+ priced similarly as a well equipped Porsche cayenne! Now I’m cancelling my order not because I cannot afford it, but because the same reason you said in your video, I’m upset, maybe a little angry at Toyota/lexus. A longtime Toyota/lexus customer here.
Thank you so much! And yeah, it’s ridiculous for a midsize Toyota/Lexus SUV!? I think it’s smart to cancel your order-even for myself who could afford to buy one, I can’t see myself (to your point) spending Cayenne money on a Lexus GX! I’d rather spend a little more and get the Cayenne, LOL!
Trim levels have really gotten absurd. Carmakers are essentially feature-tying midlevel trim features (eg: upgraded speakers) in super expensive packages, all but forcing you to buy the most expensive package to get the one or two things you actually want. Then you have companies like Kia who offer like 12 trim levels on certain vehicles, but most of them don't have the features you care about.
Yes! I completely agree. That’s my big complaint about the new GX. I wouldn’t buy a Lexus without Mark Levinson but now you HAVE to get a Luxury or Overtrail+ to even option it which means your starting price is up at $78K. That used to be an option on the $62K Premium Plus Model.
@@joshjamescars Then you have people like me who don't care about the sound system much at all, but to get remote start and heated seats you have to pay thousands of dollars for the bigger screen and better speakers.
Gouging will only stop when people stop paying it. 11:56 you hit the nail on the head here ! I agree 100%. Who cares about reliability when it costs you the cost of two engine replacements on any other vehicle? lol not to mention we absolutely do not know if the new turbo generation of Toyotas will even be reliable. Great video!
Thank you saying the obvious. I was a huge Toyota fan boy for years but switched to a 2023 Nissan Titan for the value and i actually love over driving the new Tundra
This!!! I 100% agree with you, and I love your rants. ;). I've been trying to ask everyone "in the know", on social media, if this new Land Cruiser is overbuilt like the previous LC 200. And of course, no one can say it is, because it's not! It's not the OG Land Cruiser like you said. TFL channel keeps saying how it's 50k cheaper than the outgoing 2021 model. Absolutely ridiculous. But what do I know? Not sure what I'm going to do this summer, I might just surprise everyone around me and keep my GX 460. 😎
Love the stodgy old school GX 460 platform. Lexus should have kept this model another several years and also introduce a ‘Sports Version 460’ with a Prado front end, roof rack and minimal /no side rails!
Hello! Thanks as always for watching and suffering through my ranting! And I know, no one wants to talk about the reality of the situation. And here’s the thing-even if it is as overbuilt as our GXs and the old Land Cruisers, that still wouldn’t justify the price point IMO. Because a 4Runner today will last just as long and they don’t cost $75K. And I think you should definitely keep yours, even if you get one of these new ones. Though I’d also wait a year or two and let Toyota fix some of the teething issues I’m sure we’ll have in its early days.
Thank you for making this video, I’m a loyal Toyota user, but I am now priced out of the market, not sure what I’m gonna do. Thank you for this video again.
Great video, and made some solid points. I agree, its tough to see the pricings on all of these Yotas and Lexus vehicles continue to skyrocket - and for what? I am an avid "fanboy" of Toyota products, but these prices are not making want to trade what I have. IMO.
I test drove a GX550 Premium and actually prefer the smoothness of my '17 GX460 Premium's drivetrain. I can def feel the turbo lag in the 550. My 460's 1URFE runs like a jet turbine at 128k miles. Interior still looks, feels, and works like new. I bought for a disgustingly low price, certified used, several years ago. You are so spot-on with this. My next vehicle will be a 200 series LX570 (likely 18-22). The 550 still doesn't feel or drive as luxuriously as the later 570's that I have driven.
Yep! I know exactly what you mean. I drove one of the new 4 cylinder RXs recently and it’s exactly the same way. For the money, you might want to consider buying a brand new 2023 GX as some dealers still have stock left that they’re selling with huge discounts. Personally I’d rather have that than a used LX and then drive it for the next 25 years!
@@joshjamescars I actually thought about this, but I actually do need the extra space of the LX570 over even the slightly-bigger GX550. I'm in Texas, so the vehicles down here live a pretty easy life with full dealer maintenance.
I agree, Lexus and Toyota have become greedy in their pricing, and what was once an affordable vehicle has now become totally unaffordable and unacceptable. I am turning away from these once sought after brands.
KIA and Hyundai are available i would argue their reliability and warranty is very good ..we decided to buy a Santa Fe over RAV 4 and for 5 years it has been the best decision and savings..I will go for the middle - tier LC though in 3yrs when most of the kinks will be ironed out
GREAT VIDEO!!! Long term owner here as well and while I was really excited about both vehicles I refuse to pay the inflated prices. Hopefully Toyota will get the message when they see we’re unwilling to pay, come to their senses, and lower the prices. Again, great video!
Well said and discussed Josh. I for one along with my other friends could not be more agreeable with you! They have forgot what brought them on the map and possibly they feel that they are getting close to their dominancy of car market so, they behave the way they have.
Hi Josh, thank you for the courage of saying things aloud. Raising msrps 36% after Covid and putting a vehicle "average" buy price at $47k USD is absolutely ridiculous. I am in the second year of deciding among mazda cx50, Lexus NX350h and believe it or not Hundai Santacruz. Santacruz has to go as I cannot accept nonstop reliability issues, but is lexus worth 10_15k cad over Mazda is a big question. I was hoping Toyota Crown Signia will be a nice buy in summer. Scratching my head further...
Hello! The CX-50 has had some reliability issues so that’s worth considering based on what you say about your Santa Cruz. And I think the NX is a great car but it’s expensive and also much smaller than your Santa Cruz and the Crown Signia so it also depends what size class you want.
And the other thing, they’re making many vehicles in Mexico now and charging the same price when their labor costs are half of what they are in Japan (and their QC)
Spot on- again! I am so glad that I did not purchase the GX550 vice the previous GX460 model. Yes- the new Land Cruiser should be a $50-$65K vehicle at most and fully loaded at that price range.
From the number of reactions it is quite visible that you are not alone. My thought process was quite similar than yours but when I saw the configurator I couldn't believe my eyes. A First Edition Toyota for 76 K! I did the exercise in building my Land Cruiser what I'd not consider top model and it came out around 70K. Then my decision going with a GX 460 2023 model seemed quite reasonable plus a V8 versus a 4 cylinder engine. A friend of mine said to this outrageous pricing: don't worry. There will be plenty of buyers who don't care...this US. There might some truth in that.
Same! I’m so happy that I bought my 2023 GX460 as well. And yes, sadly there are people who will pay the price because they need to have the latest and greatest and more power to them. I’ll be using my money on better things. 😂
So glad you mentioned the ridiculous price of the base Land Cruiser over 55k. Like you said, you get a rental car version of the vehicle. It’s crazy and all the reviewers act like it’s a reasonable price
I’m sorry but with that ridiculously high price for a 4-cylinder engine on the Land Cruiser, I’ll go get the Honda Pilot Trailsport. At least I can get a naturally aspirated V6 that I know could be dogged around like a workhorse. I can’t even fathom the idea of off-roading a $60k+ vehicle. Toyota is ridiculous! And the whole reliability of Toyota’s new lineup vehicles is questionable. A LOT of recalls have occurred on their new trucks and Lexus vehicles.
Yes! I completely agree. And likewise at not being able to fathom off-reading a $60K vehicle. That’s why I always thought the 4Runner was such a great choice because you could buy one for $40K and it would do as well if not better than this Land Cruiser off-road.
I think it’s an inevitable side effect of Toyota changing everything about these cars in such a short span of time. No automaker gets things 100% right on the first go, Toyota included. Especially these trucks that have an all-new platform, all-new engines, all-new transmissions, all-new technology, etc. and people who just have to be first to get these new vehicles so they can show off to their friends are going to have to also suffer through the growing pains as a result. For some people that’s worth it. For me, I’m sticking with my tried and true plug-in hybrid system in the Prime and V6 and V8 in our gas cars.
@@joshjamescars I wholeheartedly agree. The fact that Toyota has recalled more vehicles than Jeep did is unbelievable. As bad as Jeep and some Honda vehicles are, they at least stuck to their original recipe engine that’s been around for decades. Toyota really nerfed their big trucks with 4-cylinder engines. Mechanics I spoke to said the bigger the car is, the more cylinders you need to drive and haul people/things around.
Hi Josh. Love your videos! What do you think about the Subaru Wilderness Outlook? I’m a senior looking to buy a new car and the cars you critiqued were ones I was thinking of buying. But I cannot justify the price that is equivalent to a huge down payment of a house used for a car unless I will live in the car for the rest of my life.
I love the Outback! I actually used to own an Outback, years ago, when they had the 6-cylinder engine and I loved it. There’s a lot about the Outback that reminds me of my GX. The surefooted feeling of the full-time 4WD system (Subaru Symmetrical AWD), the planted feeling on the highway, etc. The Wilderness looks really great too, but definitely check out the other trims. My pick would be the XT Touring just because I like the brown leather interior option and the more urban styling but if you plan to go off-roading, you can’t beat the Wilderness! Hope this helps!
Keep in mind that the purpose of the new TNGA platform is simplification of the many platforms Toyota used to built. This will have a huge economic impact on the cost of building new vehicles under a simplified platform. Is that savings being passed on to the loyal consumer? No! On the contrary, a huge increase of more than 20% has been added to the final cost of these newly release model vehicles. So I gues I am keeping my 2020 4R TRD OR until I die. I paid $40,000.00 out the door for it. There is no way I could afford to pay dbl or more for a baby LC 250 let alone a GX 550 The "250" is so deceptive as it would indicate it is a bit better than the 200 LC but less than the 300 LC. Let's think about the prices for the upcoming 6th gen 4R. The problem is people will pay whatever Toyota ask for their vehicles so it leaves people like us that want to watch how we expend our hard earned money in a dificult situation. However, I would never buy a Jeep Grand Cherokee. I looked into buying one but relaiabily drove me to Toyota.
Completely agree with everything! However, if you’re unable to get over a less reliable vehicle, you’ll be stuck paying the prices for Toyota. I’ve had Fords, Volvos, and other less reliable cars and Toyota reliability isn’t the be-all, end-all for me.
I agree, Toyota has started to abuse it's reputation - ultimately to its detriment. I opted for an Isuzu Dmax which gives me comparable reliability with more features for $6k-$8k less!
You are 100 percent correct in your analysis. I've been saying this as well. Toyota has let their reliability record completely go to their head, and has now realized that we Toyota Truck and SUV fans will blindly buy anything they put out. I guess part of this, is the truck market in North America overall, the prices for Trucks, really across all Manufactures has become comical. F-150's, Rams ETC. for over 90-100k is bat shit insane. And people are buying them!! I think Toyota can latch on to this trend and make Gimmicky re-boots of classic vehicles, and people will salivate over them. But like you said, the new LC is just a 4runner with a Turbo 4 and some flashy new Infotainment. - Great videos BTW. love the channel!
YEP, agreed at the prices of all trucks. Here in Texas we still seem to have some good discounts ($10-$15 off most half ton trucks) but still way, way higher than they used to be. And thanks as always for watching!!
You are so correct in your assessment of the new LC and GX. We have a 18 LC and a 21 GX. Neither Toyota nor Lexus will tempt us to replace what we have with what they are now offering. Prior Toyotas a 2011 4Runner Trail and 2010 Highlander Limited 4wd with combined touble free 550K miles. Expect our LC and GX to duplicate if not double that number.
Could not agree more! Everything you say here is why we decided to pull the trigger on my V8 GX and our V6 Camry. And why nothing in their lineup is really attractive to me anymore. I love the Proven reliability and absolutely buttery smooth driving of the old GR-series V6 and UR-series V8. I also had a 2012 Highlander 4WD! Not the Limited but it was one below so same interior but without the nicer wheels and chrome finishes.
Preach brother, preach! When a car starts costing the same as a small home, we're in serious trouble. Basically all the car manufacturers are saying, 'bend over and say ah'.
The Land Cruiser premium pack up here in Canda starts at 83.3k. And our tax is 13%. Even the Toyota sales guy shook his head wondering WTF. I was in the dealership to ask about the price of the Crown Signia. Now we get the pleasure to see the new 4Runner this week. I wonder what that is going to look like and how it's going to be priced.
Nar your completely right price for this is out of control I really really want one but can't justify the price either. I'll be doing what many of us Toyota owners are doing and keeping what I have, happily.
Enjoyed your commentary Josh! I largely agree , a margin grab for sure! I’m relatively new to the Toyota experience, I own a 21 Rav 4 Prime , and previously a base SR5 Tacoma 4x4. Previous to that Hondas, Chevys and run of the mill company cars . In Canada we have not yet got the pricing for the new Land Cruiser , but if I extrapolate and see the price differences (exchange) in Canada vs USA on the : 4 Runner, Tacoma , Lexus GX , Tundra …… …then I can estimate in Canada the 1958 Land Cruiser will be between $72-76 k CDN. Very high indeed! But I have to say the resale ,reliability ,and quality will likely keep me with the Toyota brands. Jeep Grand Cherokees plummet in value by comparison, and Stellantis is using a lot more Italian, French engineering components??? Keep up the great videos…..and if you really want to see overpricing, and under engineering ,check out new pontoon boats….70’s technology using : aluminum pontoons, plywood, Vinyl, with a 200 hp Merc hanging off the back for $100k CDN. 😮
Thank you! And thank you for watching! I also know Toyota isn’t sending the base 1958 model to Canada for some reason so your lineup will start with the “Land Cruiser” trim I built in the video. Also yes, Stellantis is using more Italian and French components but for me the fact that the Grand Cherokee still has the Mopar V6 and Hemi V8 options are appealing.
Interesting. They have had the 1958 edition on the Canadian site since the initial announcement and several outlets are saying that one is going to start at $69,290cdn from just a few days ago.
@Bonjurro Oh that’s interesting! I remember Zack and Andrea of Motormouth saying that you weren’t getting that one! Maybe Toyota changed its mind so they could say that the model as a whole has a lower starting price, LOL.
You are absolutely right. I have been buying new Toyotas for years. First time I am considering buying a used one due to inflated pricing and global shift to turbo engines.
Great video. I totally agree. I just recently bought a 2023 Lexus GX460 Premium Plus. I love it. I am not paying that price for a new GX or Land Cruiser either.
I'm not sure if you seen the latest TFL video on the new Tacoma, but it looks like they blew the transfer case in mild trail riding... Certainly calls into question the TNGA platform that almost all of these vehicles will share in some capacity. Not only are they much more expensive, but is the quality of materials and MFG process even similar to the outgoing? Like you, I'm on my 7th new Toyota/Lexus vehicle I've bought new in the last decade. Starting to think the haydays may be passing us by with the LC200/GX460/5.7 Tundra and 4Runner V6. Might be wise to start finding low mileage, single owner samples with clear maintenance history vehicles and sit on them....
Whoa! No I had not seen that but I will definitely be checking it out! Also validates my belief that even with Toyota vehicles it’s always good to wait a year or two for them to work out all the kinks… though that’s pretty bad. And then over on Car Confections their new Santa Fe with 27 miles needed a new transmission. SMH. I will be keeping my tried and true aged Toyota for the rest of my life at this point.
Very honest assessment. Novelty and loyalty over substance is what Toyota sees about its customers. Cloth seat in Landcruiser? You should have said something about the spare tire and ground clearance just to make room for the batteries. At the dealership in Maryland where I inspected the vehicle, the salesmen realized that I was being thorough. Stripped to a cardboard and bare bones is what the new Landcruiser is. Lots of rattling plastic from the bumpers to the grills. Customers being taken for granted. I’m glad you didn’t join the hype of other reviewers. A salesman asked me if I will pay the same price for a top or flagship Hyundai or Kia. That told me a lot about the overhyped integrity of Toyota. The new Supra was overhyped as well and didn’t sell. 😢 I’m still driving a Toyota, my fifth, but for these new Twin-Turbos?
Yep spot on! I got to drive a 1958 and have a video on that on the channel it’s a joke. Agree with everything you say here. One note, though: the ground clearance isn’t affected by the battery, it sits under the floor in the cargo area, which presents a whole other set of problems (150 pound load weight limit over the battery compartment, no third row, high floor, etc.).
I agree .I own two Prado,s . Both petrol V6 models . Super reliable great cars . In my country the new one costs almost double what a Pajero Sport is .
I’m skeptical about that, I imagine it’ll be similar to the Suzuki Jimny in that we won’t get it here in the US market. I think our lineup is going to be full with the new 4Runner coming too.
I agree 110% with you Josh! I need to buy a new car next year (my younger son will inherit my car when he goes to college). I had wanted to buy a Lexus RX350, but between the price going through the roof and Lexus moving away from their traditional buyers who want luxury (following the general trend to placate car reviewers who - unlike you - generally rate cars on how sporty they are), I've decided to look elsewhere. It would be great if you reviewed some of the Genesis products, as I think they are aiming where Lexus used to be (and are a much better value - not so much cheaper, but you get more for your money). The other option I am seriously considering is foregoing a new car and actually going for a Mercedes 300D Turbodiesel wagon - I love the look, the luxury of the ride, the decent mileage and how virtually indestructible they are (no worries about having to replace hybrid batteries or screens that control everything in your car - cannot get anything analog today!). Thanks for your rant and listening to mine! 😃
I actually have a review of the turbo RX350 coming out next week! And personally I would not buy it. Genesis is okay but be sure to do your homework on the depreciation of them and Hyundai/Kia’s sketchy record when it comes to fixing problems for customers. Right now, Genesis actually depreciates faster and harder than the Germans because we don’t have any long-term data on dependability or customer desirability. Will anyone want a 5-year old Genesis? We don’t really know. On the customer service front, Hyundai/Kia burned a lot of people on the Theta 2 engine debacle and the whole “Kia boys” theft ring. Neither of those affect Genesis but it’s worth noting how they treated customers who were affected. Both times, MANY class action lawsuits had to be filed before the company reluctantly started to do something to fix the issues. Something else most car reviewers don’t ever talk about. And it’s funny you mention the MB Turbodiesel because I was thinking while reading your comment that you might want to go used because you could search for a really nice 2022 RX350 or 2023 GX460!
I’m with you. I’ve owned many Toyotas, two 80 series LC. I currently have an FJ with about 80,000 miles. I’ve been tempted to trade it for Pro FourRunner but can’t get around pricing. Really don’t want the new turbo editions.
I think your FJ Cruiser is really special. But I can understand wanting to buy a new 4Runner and honestly even though the prices are sky high, they hold their value (like your FJ). I bought mine in 2019 and sold it 4 years later for around $5K more than I paid for it new. So, that to say, if you buy one now, you won’t be out too much money if you want/need to sell it down the line. And I absolutely think the 4Runner is worth buying before the V6 goes away.
Excellent breakdown. There was a time in the world when businesses rewarded the consumer for their litalty with lower/stabilizeed pricing. Today, the inverse is true. Consumers are punished with higher prices as the product popularity goes up. We are living in a backwards universe. Only pragmatic, lucid, non-zombies will vote with their wallets. Great job.
I completely agree! Since 2019, the auto market has increased dramatically. During the covid times, car dealerships completely took advantage of car buyers in the used markets. Now, post covid, I feel auto manufacturers saw what had happened with used car prices, so now they’re taking advantage of new car buyers. What’s the answer, don’t buy them….i know, that maybe easier said than done for many. If you bought that same 4Runner TRD pro today, you would pay around $57,000. The 4 Runners haven’t changed much in the 15 years of the 5th generation. I’m really waiting to see what the pricing will be on the 6th gen 4Runners. The Tacoma prices are insane and not many seemed to be buying them. Time will tell…..might be time to look at a KIA Telluride…. Reliability matters, no doubt, but it matters more if I plan to keep it for more than 7 years, which I don’t usually do. Keep making your videos!
I was just thinking about the cost over time if I bought another brand. I could spend $10k on repairs and still pay less for a new Toyota. Great points in this video!
Hey Josh! The price of Toyota/Lexus SUVs has gotten out of control, but there is still good value in their sedans and coupes. You can buy a fully loaded Lexus ES with Naturally Aspirated V6 for around 50-55k or a Lexus RC 350AWD with a naturally aspirated V6 for 60k. Get the V6 while you still can, before everything goes to a turbocharged 4cylinder engine!
I couldn’t agree with you more. It’s very sad what Toyota and Lexus are doing. These types of pricing will definitely cause them to loose their loyal lexus base. As the owner of a 2018 GX 460 and a 2019 Es 300h, I will have to look elsewhere when considering to upgrade. It’s very very unfortunate and I hope that Lexus/Toyota and all the other car companies realize this, otherwise folks will just continue to keep their current vehicles. The car crash has already started to happen with Porsche and it’s a matter of time, before the same happens with Toyota and Lexus, unless they take a proactive and strategic approach to sell more new vehicles and keep their loyal fan base.
Yes! Completely agree here, and am hoping to keep my Rav Prime and GX for as long as they’ll run since I don’t see Toyota/Lexus ever coming back around to the kinds of cars they used to make (or the value that they used to be). Lexus has also said that they intend to be a fully BEV automaker by 2030 so we’ll have to see how that pans out for them too.
Totally agree. Just traded my 2015 4Runner for a new one for similar reasons. Wanted to get one of the last 5th gens before they strip it down to a turbo 4 while simultaneously raising the price.
@@joshjamescars The TFL video this week of the new Tacoma snapping a CV on the trail is a great example. Toyota's legendary reputation for quality seems to be plummeting on these newer vehicles.
Great show 😊 ! I just purchased a 2024 4Runner Limited, I traded in my trusty Ford F150 truck . I am so far pretty happy with the purchase and I like the 4Runner for its reliability and durability . Do you know if there is a new 4Runner coming out soon ?
Congrats on the new 4Runner! We should be seeing a new one coming out this year as a 2025 model, but it will share a lot with the new Tacoma and Land Cruiser including the 4-cylinder engines and likely will not have a full time 4WD system, so I think you made the right decision buying yours when you did.
Thanks so much for posting this. I have two thoughts about this new pricing: 1 - Toyota just decided to take the profits, being made by the dealers in markups, for themselves. Pricing for new TRD pros and other models have been higher for years due to markups, so this new MSRP pricing will not allow dealers to post those crazy $10-15k markups (of course they can try, but now an Overtrail+ with that sort of markup would be 100k). 2 - In looking at comments on the new LC or GX I rarely see an existing owner saying anything positive about the pricing - we all know the outstanding value of the previous-generation Toyota/Lexus trucks - even the old 200 series LC, at 95K out the door, was an amazing vehicle (I test drove it). These new trucks? Expensive, and I am seeing a series of recalls by Toyota this week - a very onerous sign indeed :(
Sadly we’re already seeing dealers and distributors adding crap on top of these GXs. Check out this post on Reddit that someone posted of their allocation. It had $9K of accessories on top of an Overtrail and literally was $104K. I would have laughed myself out of the dealer: www.reddit.com/r/LexusGX/s/EeQsG1vG4e
@@joshjamescarsThanks for sharing - looks like Lexus and its dealers are trying to move more upscale, into Land Rover territory, leaving folks like us behind. To be determined if they will be successful - with this strategy they don't have to focus as much on reliability, as Land Rover consistently ranks very low on the reliability scale in any case.
Hi Josh! You forgot to mention the luxury GX 460 was running in the 70’s. I test drove one that was 72,000.00 in 2022. It was atomic silver with the red interior. I didn’t like the color combination. I did like the multi terrain monitor and 360 view. However, I started thinking by the time taxes and tags and any other fees were added it would have been around $80,000.00. So I got the premium plus with the Mark Levinson sound system. Then the 2023 comes out with the black line edition that the 360 camera is standard. In 2022 we could not get the trailer hitch for that year GX because they weren’t available. I think Lexus has been considered a bargain compared to the competitors. So maybe this is a way of increasing their A game. Now offering more trim levels and options that their other vehicles offer. In regard to Toyota’s pricing the Sequoia is running in the $80,000.00 range. I don’t think there are any vehicles now that are reasonably price. Thanks for the review,
Hi Joann! That was mentioned in the video that came before this one about the new GX550. But yes! You’re entirely right. And also yes at the sequoia being $80K… that at least is more in line with its competitors like Tahoe and Expedition, though.
Absolutely agree with everything mentioned here. The Land Cruiser is a perplexing purchase, and this is coming from a long-time fan of the car. I was shocked at the value the GX (both 460 and 550) seemed to provide in comparison.
Yes! Same here! I also think the GX is overpriced when you look at what you have to pay to get the features most people will want but you’re right that it seems to provide more value than the Land Cruiser.
Agree 💯, a Lexus GX550 Overtrail trim in Canada is over $100k CAD. The Landcruiser price hasn't been released up here, however I suspect it will start at $68k for the base 1958 edition.
Hello! Your pricing went live right after ours. Starts at $69 and goes up to $90 for the First Edition. Check out the Canada press release here: media.toyota.ca/en/releases/2024/toyota-canada-announces-pricing-for-all-new-2024-toyota-land-cru.html
I am right there brother, I am a big toyota fan, but I just can't do the new Prado’s for 300 series pricing. Surprisingly we picked up an Armada and I really like it, also consider a frontier for a truck.
Hi Josh, I enjoy watching 14:20 your video. I agree with you totally. I am glad I purchased the 2023 GX460 in June. If I need to pay $75K plus market adjustment for the brand new toyota Land Cruiser, I’d rather to switch to another brand. With the new electronic gadget, it won’t be cheap to repair even for toyota. That is why I stick with the old school SuV
Spot on. I just about choked when I started playing with the builder and realized... the build I would do for a Land Cruiser, put me squarely matched on price with a GX550 Overtrail. Holy sh*t! If you want another laugh, price out a 24 Tacoma Off Road with the faux leather seats and detachable swaybar. What I was gunning for hit $57k.... "TSRP". Frankly, I think Toyota lost its mind.
I agree with you man..Used to be a Toyota guy here, two 4 runners and one Prado..suddenly 4Rs and Prados prices went up like rockets and 0 stock...and also that poor gas efficiency makes me crazy...now I am super happy with my 2023 2,5 Forester Sport and my 22 Jimny...both made in japan and both very very handy...love Toyota but prices are insane here and service is even more pricey,..I mean 400 US for an oil and filter change, cmon now..
Oh I love the Jimny. If we could buy one here, I’d have one. And I love the Forester, too! I had an Outback at one point and it was great. Also, where are you where an oil change is $400!?
@@joshjamescars In the land where Hilux (and not Tacos or Tundras) are Toyota´s most important vehicles.....Toyota´s services are very expensive here in the very south (Chile..)
pricing is bad for consumers :-( but good for toyota shareholders :-). Like it or not, toyota management’s number 1 priority is to maximize profit for shareholders. And if I had to guess, production capacity will be limited and toyota is simply pricing the land cruiser at the estimated point where they think the demand will equal supply. Having toyota remain financially strong also allows them to continue to invest in desirable future products.
Oh I’ve been pretty open about that! :) I am very fortunate work in software engineering and design for a Fortune 500 company and my husband works in the semiconductor industry and we also don’t have any kids. And thank you!
I totally agree. I was just making many of these same points to my wife this morning. I even picked many of the same options on my dream new Land Cruiser. My only disagreement is with your wheel choice. I'm not a fan of large rims, especially when they are silver.
Haha we have good taste! ;) And the 20” wheels are actually a dark gunmetal finish not silver. I’ve seen the stock wheels in person and I personal was not a fan. But they’re not bad.
Yup. On the money. What’s most frustrating is, from what I’ve heard, the first 5000 trucks off the assembly line (destined for the US) are the first editions. Then, I’ve heard production numbers won’t be as high as the GX, so limited supply will keep up the prices. So, as my 04 landcruiser tries to die, I’m constantly considering what to buy. I don’t know the answer. The Jeep is interesting. And with a warranty, they only problem with reliability will be visits to the dealer, theoretically.
Oh wow I hadn’t heard that but I also wouldn’t be surprised. I believe the same is true of Lexus (that the first ones out will be the most expensive). I think you might want to see if you can find a 2023 GX while you still can and snatch it up. You could sell it in a few years if you end up wanting the new one. But I think it’s the closest thing you can get to your 04 Land Cruiser.
@@joshjamescars yes. Wife has a 17 GX. It drives more like my LC than an 08 LC I bought then sold 6 mos later. The 08 (first of the last gen 200 series) was a beast to drive. Not sure about later models of the 200 series.
@steveh545 Oh yeah, the 200 series was a much bigger vehicle and definitely more of a handful. Great car but the LC 200 and LX570 would have been too big for me.
I do have to say, the new Land Cruiser in white with the middle package is sharp. Nicely equipped it looks to be $66k - $69k when I build it. Might be worth that based on its legacy and compared to the rest of the competition.
I think for $69K you owe it to yourself to also look at the Lexus GX. Also, the “legacy” is questionable given that this isn’t the real Land Cruiser but rather the Land Cruiser Prado. Which is a great car (my GX is also a Land Cruiser Prado) but still, I would rather have the V6 and the Lexus dealer and service experience for that price.
@@joshjamescars I agree the Lexus dealership experience is better than Toyota. We've had so many Lexus vehicles over the years. Perhaps I am unique, however, I like the Toyota name/marque better than Lexus. Around here, Lexus always implies someone (typically a realtor or the like) who leases one and is trying to be flashy--even though they aren't wealthy. Kind of like driving a C Class Mercedes, BMW, Land Rover/Range Rover---all flash and no cash. The LV purse of the car industry. That may differ based on the geography.
@georgetown8986 That’s really interesting! Most Lexus owners I know buy their cars and most pay cash and then they keep them forever so I always see wonderful, well-preserved older Lexus models. Personally if I was going to lease something I would stay away from Lexus since a lease would mean I could get something totally wild and unreliable LOL! So I guess it comes down to are you willing to spend Lexus money for a lesser-grade toyota vehicle just because of what other people might think of you, or do you want the objectively better car that’s much more worth $70K. I don’t ever worry about what the things I buy may conjure up in other peoples’ minds.
Thankyou Josh! I feel the same way. Such a shame, because I love Toyota and lexus. I also believe the GX 460 and 5th gen 4runner provided amazing value for the $$. I purchased my 5th gen 24 trd pro 4runner bc I knew prices for the next 4runner would be stupid, and they would slap a 4cy in it and charge $75k. Same thing for the Tacoma, prices on the new ones are BONKERS, can’t fathom paying $50k+ for a TRD off-road or Trd sport when 3rd gen pros were $50k with options!
Could not agree more! I’m also starting to see the 24 TRD Pros and I’m so glad that one is sticking around for this year since my GX is now gone. And completely agree at the pricing on the new Tacoma. Outrageous, for a Tacoma! That used to be one of the cheapest cars you could buy, period.
That’s why I’m still hanging on to my J150 with the 1GR V6. While you still can save yourself and get the cousin, the 4Runner Limited in Pearl White. The end 😊 Josh spot on! I agree with what you said. You bringing out your toy Prado at the back brought a smile to my face haha!
Really good points buddy. I love the look of the 550 Overtrail but god DAMN, you’re talking $100k after everything and probable interest in this market. Like WOW.
Yep! Completely agree, I also like the look, but not worth the price. And I’ve already seen allocations on Reddit that are over $100K just with MSRP+accessories.
This video is 100% spot on. Toyota doesn't really do web orders either. Tundra was a defect mess. When I think of Toyota now, I think "Customer last: OK Quality and High Dealer Markups". The damage is done.
Josh, I have watch many of your videos since my interest (and now ownership) of the 2023 GX developed. And, I quickly noticed it seems you have owned many quite expensive vehicles in a short period of time. So, I was just wondering what you and your wife do for a living? I think it comes from my wife and I making a pretty good living, yet the new GX was a very real extreme luxury for us (mainly me), and considering I am a pretty old fart (66) I am trying to figure out if it is partly my frugal nature or you guys just make quite a bit more than we do. And I will add, I live in the part of the country (rural southeast) where the cost of living is probably as cheap as anywhere in the US.
Hello! Great question! I am in the software design and engineering, and my husband is in the semiconductor (microchip) industry. And I agree, the GX was a luxury for us as well given that I was 30 when I bought it, but the price of my GX is somewhere around 25% of my individual total annual income. And even with our total household income we’re still firmly middle class here in Austin! Go figure. In regard to the cars we’ve bought and sold, we have also just been able to buy cars that are super desirable and thus didn’t depreciate. I actually sold the NX350h and the Prius for exactly what I paid for them and didn’t take a loss on either because at the time we sold each you couldn’t get what I had without waiting for 6-8 months and so people were willing to pay over asking price on the used market. And then I also actual made a PROFIT off of my 4Runner TRD Pro which I bought for $46,500 in 2019 and then sold in 2023 for $50,000 and all that cash went right into my GX. Anyway, thanks as always for watching!
US dollar to Japanese Yen is now around $1 to 150 yen.. Japanese manufacturer will make the big profit in next few years partly due to very favorable exchange rate.
Hey men I totally agree with you, even our car journalist cant get this right. Basically, they saying the prado is the new landcruiser... when Jalopnik gets this wrong then Jesus take the wheel, I mean they know they can jack up prices and thats the reality of post covid cuz everyone can hike up anything nowdays.
Could not agree more! But I’ve also noticed a lot of these media outlets not being critical of the automakers, so I’m guessing they’re also either ignorantly or purposefully sticking to the narrative that Toyota has given them in the press releases.
Coming from Toyota, I am surprised you would not go with Acura/Honda, or Mazda, but I could see your point if wanted body on frame. I will just keep mine for looong time. I have a GS450H that I could not part over a new Camry, cars nowadays even from Lexus don’t have the RWD and natural aspirated motors. Cheaper parts, cheaper feel, more power and a whole much more expensive. If you drove last model GS, I think you would like it more than your very nice V6 Camry. Camry weighs much less, would not surprise me if faster, but the Grand Sedan is soo great…
Hello! Regarding Acura/Honda and Mazda, I personally value design and a plush interior and that’s something only Lexus ever really did right (though not anymore), and although I’ve been very faithful to Toyota/Lexus, that was why I bought my 2016 XC90 it had an absolutely stellar exterior and interior design, the way the Grand Cherokee does. And yes! The GS is absolutely terrific, I so regret buying one when I could have gotten one new. That’s the only reason we didn’t buy one instead of the Camry is to buy one today would mean buying a 4 year old car and since we plan to keep it for a good long time, we wanted to buy new.
You spoke my mind; I was considering waiting for the Crown Signia to replace my 2013 BMW 3 series, but at the current pace of toyota pricing, I might as well just stay with BMW, and pay an extra $3,000 - $4,000 on extended Warranty - enjoy the smoothest inline 6 in the world for about the same money or less than the first edition Land Cruiser BS.
Yes! Read the fine print on the BMW extended warranties. They’ve changed them recently to exclude any and all technology (including headlights and safety system, I believe) which is what’s most likely to have issues as the car ages versus the drivetrain which it covers.
You know there are already recalls coming out on the GX 550, plus unless you get the overtrail trim the 550 will not be comparable to the GX 460. I have a 22 GX 460, but no way in hell I would by the GX 550. Not as they are today. Nice video.
You are singing my song, brother... I have an actual Land Cruiser and a Tacoma. It's outrageous where the prices have gone. It's not totally Toyotas' fault. Everything has gone up an insane amount. But yeah, I feel you pain.
Spot on!!! I have owned Toyotas for over 11 years and I feel like we are losing the holistic value and pride that Toyota once represented as a buyer. I have a 4R Pro and a GX460. We will most likely just keep them and afterwards hesitantly move to another brand.
I see lots of comments about the new Landcruiser and comparing it to the GX. I'm assuming that changed with the new Landcruiser. I always thought the Landcruiser was based on the Lexus "LX" and not the "GX". I know my LX is the same as the Landcruiser for the same year because I have a friend with the same year Landcruiser. I like the 3 trim levels on the new Landcruiser - you can get the round lights with the cheap and expensive versions and the square lights on the middle trim. The new Landcruiser is pretty expensive and I might go with a loaded up 4 Runner instead. I hate that 3rd row that is never used by my family. I will definitely buy a Toyota.
A bit of background here. Your LX is a Land Cruiser 200 series. Globally, there have always been two Land Cruisers. First, there is the big Land Cruiser (80, 90, 100, 200, and 300 series) which the LX was based upon. Then alongside that, there has always been a smaller Land Cruiser called “Prado” (150 and 250 series) which is a completely different vehicle. North America never got the Land Cruiser Prado but we did get the GX that was based on it (same way your LX is a rebadged Land Cruiser 200, my GX460 is a rebadged Land Cruiser Prado 150). This new 2024 US-market Land Cruiser is the new Land Cruiser Prado and NOT the newest Land Cruiser 300 series. They’re just calling it the Land Cruiser there in the states because we don’t get the new Land Cruiser 300. But the naming is misleading because a lot of people like you are thinking that it’s the next generation of the real Land Cruiser which it isn’t. Also, I think buying the upcoming 4Runner is a better use of money since it’ll be nearly identical in spec (midsize, body on frame with turbo-4 engines) to this new Land Cruiser.
Josh, just found your channel and really appreciate your thoughts. I'm looking to get a midsize SUV with AWD now, and am comparing a few options. Could you make a video about your thoughts on the pricing and comparison of the Mazda CX-50, Honda CR-V, Subaru Outback, and toyota RAV4?
Hello! I would personally count the CX50 out right away. It’s had lower than average reliability and I found the seats to be really hard. The Outback is a great choice but is much bigger than the others you mention which are compact vacuoles; the Outback is a midsize vehicle. The Forester would be the direct competitor to the others-the forester is a great choice too, btw! The nice thing about the CR-V and RAV4 are that you can get a hybrid which is how I would go. Both are well priced and really efficient as well. The CR-V hybrid I think looks, feels, and drives like a more premium vehicle, but the Rav hybrid offers far more features (like a panoramic moonroof, 360 camera, head up display, wireless CarPlay, etc.)
I think those two are great. I’d probably lean MDX just because of the Honda association but I think the QX60 is bigger and it looks more luxurious. Nissan’s VQ-series V6 is also nearly as legendary as Toyota’s GR V6.
Maybe I'm weird, but I think the 2.4 hybrid is a lot more compelling than the GX's V6. At first the GX Overtrail was appealing to me as well, but after driving the non-hybrid 2.4 in the new Tacoma, I really like it. The GX550's 17 MPG and required premum (currently $4.72/gal) don't make much sense to me. Thankfully, I don't need the premium package, and ~$64k isn't far off what a Tacoma with the hybrid seems like it will cost.
That's not to say everything, especially Toyotas, don't seem insanely priced. The last car I bought was a GTI in 2019, and it was $30k out the door. With options!
The hybrid max/iForce max system is great! And I’ve always said if I had to buy one or the other I would definitely buy it the Land Cruiser with the turbo hybrid 4. Since I can’t get my V8 in the GX anymore I would save myself the money and buy the Land Cruiser! And to your point, the 17mpg average is only 1 better than my V8 anyway.
Hey everyone! Just a note for those of you saying that this is simply inflation, it’s far beyond that.
Here are the facts: in 2009 when the GX460 launched, it started at just under $48K. In 2023 the starting price was just under to $59K. That increase means that the GX460 WAS ADJUSTING FOR INFLATION over its generational run (which is normal).
What is NOT NORMAL is the ~20% increase we are seeing in A SINGLE MODEL YEAR from the 2023 GX460 to the 2024 GX550 (that 20% being the difference between two comparably equipped models such as my 2023 Premium Plus at $64K and a 2024 Luxury at $77K). Thus, the increase simply NOT all to blame on inflation.
And thank you all for watching! The engagement and discussion here is so validating that my opinions are not out of line amongst actual Toyota SUV owners.
I honestly think that you should go audi/porsche for your next car considering how insane the pricing is
@@rishinarang9966 I've seen people treat a Cayenne and the lifted Panamera as a truck, but it just doesn't feel right.
@@rightwingsafetysquad9872 I dont think he uses GX as much as a truck
That is a massive increase I agree with your argument 😊
I live in The Netherlands. Over here, the mid spec landcruiser (professional spec) is currently being sold for €167,000 (usd 177,000). I think Toyota has lost their damn minds.
FINALLY so tired of all these media outlets acting like 57k is a reasonable or even expected price for a super base vehicle
Seriously!!! Most (not all) of the automotive media are just advertising outlets for the brands these days that don’t want to bite the hands that feed them.
Totally agree. This is just the 1st step (MSRP from the manufacturer), the dealers are taking from you for the 2nd step. Guess what? The new GX550 in Southern California has 15% mark up, lol
That's also before ADM
It looks cool in the suburbs! That's why. Toyota knows this man
it is
After I heard that the the new Land Cruiser was coming out as a 2.4 liter 4 cylinder turbo. I went out looking for a 2019-2021 Land Cruiser, but those were already inflated selling for $80K-90K for 40k mile range, ridiculous! I went out and bought a 2019 LX570 for $58.k. Could not be happier!
Great choice! That was exactly what lead me to my GX460. I love the LX570 but it would have been too big for my needs.
Damn smart move! I bought 2 460s in 2022 and probably should have bought a previous gen Land Cruiser and LX 570. We’re seriously thinking about getting a 24 runner before they trash that vehicle as well.
Appreciate you keeping it real... a lot of car UA-camrs get numb to these high prices. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should buy an over-priced vehicle. I was waiting on the GX550 but not I'm 99% sure I'll be buying a 2022 or 2023 GX460. Better value there IMO.
Thank you! And I completely agree! I think the other perception I get from these UA-camrs I see is that they make the assumption that if make the money to (truly) afford an $80K car you don’t care about how expensive it is but to your point, that’s just not right. I also think a lot of them don’t want to bite the hand that sends them to five star hotels in Hawaii for free.
My Lexus sales manager bought himself a GX460 AFTER he drove the new GX550. Draw your own conclusions.
100% agree! On the other hand the money value is declining very rapidly ! Our neighbor just listed their house on the market for $890K which they paid 380K four years ago.
That’s insane. I’m thankful our local market has sort of normalized with prices falling back to where they were at the beginning of the decade, but I know that’s not the case everywhere.
It’s a bubble that will have to pop. Most of the $ in the market is fake. It’s all debt held by debtors loaned by debtors. Once the dominos start to fall, they’ll fall hard and fast.
Listing isn’t selling.
@@matthewhuszarik4173 , the new cost of money will temper the shit out of those expectations.......
This channel needs a lot more subscribers and tons more views. This info and frustration needs to hit a boat load of more potential buyers of new Toyota truck and SUVs. Toyota is inflating prices because they know how loyal a lot of their customer. Great video! Keep them coming!
Thank you for saying so! And I agree.
Good job on this one! I bought my 3rd GX (2023) in October realizing the value as compared to the new GX550. Keep up the good work!
That’s the way to go! Congrats and thank you!
Thanks Josh. Love your content. Two things: 1) Thank you for validating my very recent purchase of a 22 GX460. Before buying, I wondered if we should just wait for the new Land Cruiser to become more available to buy. (I had already ruled out the GX 550 for price reasons). This video shows why I made the right move. There's no way I would have wanted to pay what the new Land Cruisers will cost. 2) As a designer, I applaud the excellent typography on your videos. You have a good eye sir.
Congrats on the new GX! I’m VERY happy that so many of us have been able to get one of these outgoing GXs new or almost new while we could. I think even if pricing had stayed close to the same I still would have wanted the V8 and our interior. And as a fellow designer (though I’m in upper management so this is my only real creative outlet now lol), I appreciate you noticing! ❤️
Love your rant! You speak for many of us friend.
Oh boy, I can only imagine what the upcoming all new 4Runner is going to cost
Get the current model while you can!
Based on the Tacoma which is ridiculously expensive, I’m guessing A LOT. And I agree with @edmundcharles there, or find a nice heavily discounted GX460 if there are still any lying around.
Thank you for calling out the new ”Land Cruiser” for what it is: a Land Cruiser Prado! Too many people are totally delusional about what they’re getting.
Yes! And I think Toyota likes it that way…
I live and work in the middle east and it's offensive to see Toyota price US market prados higher than GX trim 300 seriers. On principle, no.
I think Toyota would have been best served by making Land Cruiser a trim level for all of their trucks in America. Get a 4Runner Land Cruiser, Taco Land Cruiser, and Tundra Land Cruiser.
I own a top line Prado from 2021 , my dealer is trying to offer me the new landcruiser at £25000 more than I paid for my 3 year old car. Apart from the tonka toy body the upgrades are not worth it. Owned a lexus too and the dealer experience is miles apart from Toyota. Turning up in a landcruiser at a Toyota dealer gets you dirty looks from all the planet hugging prius drivers.
The Prado is a legendarily capable machine. You may not have meant it as a compliment, a you’d be hard-pressed to offer greater praise.
Bravo 👏 Well said! UA-cam needs voice like you!!! Massively underrated video and channel!
I’m from Canada, and I was excited for the new GX 550, then I found out the overtrail+ priced similarly as a well equipped Porsche cayenne! Now I’m cancelling my order not because I cannot afford it, but because the same reason you said in your video, I’m upset, maybe a little angry at Toyota/lexus. A longtime Toyota/lexus customer here.
Thank you so much! And yeah, it’s ridiculous for a midsize Toyota/Lexus SUV!? I think it’s smart to cancel your order-even for myself who could afford to buy one, I can’t see myself (to your point) spending Cayenne money on a Lexus GX! I’d rather spend a little more and get the Cayenne, LOL!
Trim levels have really gotten absurd. Carmakers are essentially feature-tying midlevel trim features (eg: upgraded speakers) in super expensive packages, all but forcing you to buy the most expensive package to get the one or two things you actually want. Then you have companies like Kia who offer like 12 trim levels on certain vehicles, but most of them don't have the features you care about.
Yes! I completely agree. That’s my big complaint about the new GX. I wouldn’t buy a Lexus without Mark Levinson but now you HAVE to get a Luxury or Overtrail+ to even option it which means your starting price is up at $78K. That used to be an option on the $62K Premium Plus Model.
@@joshjamescars Then you have people like me who don't care about the sound system much at all, but to get remote start and heated seats you have to pay thousands of dollars for the bigger screen and better speakers.
Gouging will only stop when people stop paying it. 11:56 you hit the nail on the head here ! I agree 100%. Who cares about reliability when it costs you the cost of two engine replacements on any other vehicle? lol not to mention we absolutely do not know if the new turbo generation of Toyotas will even be reliable. Great video!
Thank you saying the obvious. I was a huge Toyota fan boy for years but switched to a 2023 Nissan Titan for the value and i actually love over driving the new Tundra
This!!! I 100% agree with you, and I love your rants. ;). I've been trying to ask everyone "in the know", on social media, if this new Land Cruiser is overbuilt like the previous LC 200. And of course, no one can say it is, because it's not! It's not the OG Land Cruiser like you said. TFL channel keeps saying how it's 50k cheaper than the outgoing 2021 model. Absolutely ridiculous. But what do I know? Not sure what I'm going to do this summer, I might just surprise everyone around me and keep my GX 460. 😎
Love the stodgy old school GX 460 platform. Lexus should have kept this model another several years and also introduce a ‘Sports Version 460’ with a Prado front end, roof rack and minimal /no side rails!
Hello! Thanks as always for watching and suffering through my ranting! And I know, no one wants to talk about the reality of the situation. And here’s the thing-even if it is as overbuilt as our GXs and the old Land Cruisers, that still wouldn’t justify the price point IMO. Because a 4Runner today will last just as long and they don’t cost $75K. And I think you should definitely keep yours, even if you get one of these new ones. Though I’d also wait a year or two and let Toyota fix some of the teething issues I’m sure we’ll have in its early days.
@@joshjamescars Great point about the 4Runners! So true.
TFL is the most overrated channel. Tommy is a bright point, but their content is so incredibly dull and the hosts love to ramble.
@@Slaxsvo Totally agree. 😎
Thank you for making this video, I’m a loyal Toyota user, but I am now priced out of the market, not sure what I’m gonna do. Thank you for this video again.
You are absolutely right, totally agree with you
Thanks and thanks for watching!
Great video, and made some solid points. I agree, its tough to see the pricings on all of these Yotas and Lexus vehicles continue to skyrocket - and for what? I am an avid "fanboy" of Toyota products, but these prices are not making want to trade what I have. IMO.
Same here! I definitely won’t be trading what I have for anything new.
I test drove a GX550 Premium and actually prefer the smoothness of my '17 GX460 Premium's drivetrain. I can def feel the turbo lag in the 550. My 460's 1URFE runs like a jet turbine at 128k miles. Interior still looks, feels, and works like new. I bought for a disgustingly low price, certified used, several years ago.
You are so spot-on with this. My next vehicle will be a 200 series LX570 (likely 18-22). The 550 still doesn't feel or drive as luxuriously as the later 570's that I have driven.
Yep! I know exactly what you mean. I drove one of the new 4 cylinder RXs recently and it’s exactly the same way. For the money, you might want to consider buying a brand new 2023 GX as some dealers still have stock left that they’re selling with huge discounts. Personally I’d rather have that than a used LX and then drive it for the next 25 years!
@@joshjamescars I actually thought about this, but I actually do need the extra space of the LX570 over even the slightly-bigger GX550. I'm in Texas, so the vehicles down here live a pretty easy life with full dealer maintenance.
I agree, Lexus and Toyota have become greedy in their pricing, and what was once an affordable vehicle has now become totally unaffordable and unacceptable. I am turning away from these once sought after brands.
Yes! I miss the days of Toyota being a great value.
KIA and Hyundai are available i would argue their reliability and warranty is very good ..we decided to buy a Santa Fe over RAV 4 and for 5 years it has been the best decision and savings..I will go for the middle - tier LC though in 3yrs when most of the kinks will be ironed out
GREAT VIDEO!!! Long term owner here as well and while I was really excited about both vehicles I refuse to pay the inflated prices. Hopefully Toyota will get the message when they see we’re unwilling to pay, come to their senses, and lower the prices. Again, great video!
Well said and discussed Josh. I for one along with my other friends could not be more agreeable with you! They have forgot what brought them on the map and possibly they feel that they are getting close to their dominancy of car market so, they behave the way they have.
Hi Josh, thank you for the courage of saying things aloud. Raising msrps 36% after Covid and putting a vehicle "average" buy price at $47k USD is absolutely ridiculous. I am in the second year of deciding among mazda cx50, Lexus NX350h and believe it or not Hundai Santacruz. Santacruz has to go as I cannot accept nonstop reliability issues, but is lexus worth 10_15k cad over Mazda is a big question. I was hoping Toyota Crown Signia will be a nice buy in summer. Scratching my head further...
Hello! The CX-50 has had some reliability issues so that’s worth considering based on what you say about your Santa Cruz. And I think the NX is a great car but it’s expensive and also much smaller than your Santa Cruz and the Crown Signia so it also depends what size class you want.
And the other thing, they’re making many vehicles in Mexico now and charging the same price when their labor costs are half of what they are in Japan (and their QC)
Spot on- again! I am so glad that I did not purchase the GX550 vice the previous GX460 model. Yes- the new Land Cruiser should be a $50-$65K vehicle at most and fully loaded at that price range.
Yes!! Exactly. And great choice with the 460!
From the number of reactions it is quite visible that you are not alone. My thought process was quite similar than yours but when I saw the configurator I couldn't believe my eyes. A First Edition Toyota for 76 K! I did the exercise in building my Land Cruiser what I'd not consider top model and it came out around 70K. Then my decision going with a GX 460 2023 model seemed quite reasonable plus a V8 versus a 4 cylinder engine. A friend of mine said to this outrageous pricing: don't worry. There will be plenty of buyers who don't care...this US. There might some truth in that.
Same! I’m so happy that I bought my 2023 GX460 as well. And yes, sadly there are people who will pay the price because they need to have the latest and greatest and more power to them. I’ll be using my money on better things. 😂
solid video boss somebody get this man a sponsor
Thank you! I enjoy being an independent channel though, not beholden to anyone. :)
So glad you mentioned the ridiculous price of the base Land Cruiser over 55k. Like you said, you get a rental car version of the vehicle. It’s crazy and all the reviewers act like it’s a reasonable price
Seriously! And you can’t even option that trim with anything to make it even a little bit nicer.
I’m sorry but with that ridiculously high price for a 4-cylinder engine on the Land Cruiser, I’ll go get the Honda Pilot Trailsport. At least I can get a naturally aspirated V6 that I know could be dogged around like a workhorse.
I can’t even fathom the idea of off-roading a $60k+ vehicle. Toyota is ridiculous!
And the whole reliability of Toyota’s new lineup vehicles is questionable. A LOT of recalls have occurred on their new trucks and Lexus vehicles.
Yes! I completely agree. And likewise at not being able to fathom off-reading a $60K vehicle. That’s why I always thought the 4Runner was such a great choice because you could buy one for $40K and it would do as well if not better than this Land Cruiser off-road.
@@joshjamescars What are your thoughts on their nee vehicles being recalled?
I think it’s an inevitable side effect of Toyota changing everything about these cars in such a short span of time. No automaker gets things 100% right on the first go, Toyota included. Especially these trucks that have an all-new platform, all-new engines, all-new transmissions, all-new technology, etc. and people who just have to be first to get these new vehicles so they can show off to their friends are going to have to also suffer through the growing pains as a result. For some people that’s worth it. For me, I’m sticking with my tried and true plug-in hybrid system in the Prime and V6 and V8 in our gas cars.
@@joshjamescars I wholeheartedly agree. The fact that Toyota has recalled more vehicles than Jeep did is unbelievable. As bad as Jeep and some Honda vehicles are, they at least stuck to their original recipe engine that’s been around for decades.
Toyota really nerfed their big trucks with 4-cylinder engines. Mechanics I spoke to said the bigger the car is, the more cylinders you need to drive and haul people/things around.
Mine as well buy a Ford maverick hybrid heaper!
Unfortunately it's not just Toyota, its the general attitude of entire automotive industry.
This was an eye opener. Thank you!
You’re welcome and thanks for watching!
Hi Josh. Love your videos! What do you think about the Subaru Wilderness Outlook? I’m a senior looking to buy a new car and the cars you critiqued were ones I was thinking of buying. But I cannot justify the price that is equivalent to a huge down payment of a house used for a car unless I will live in the car for the rest of my life.
I love the Outback! I actually used to own an Outback, years ago, when they had the 6-cylinder engine and I loved it. There’s a lot about the Outback that reminds me of my GX. The surefooted feeling of the full-time 4WD system (Subaru Symmetrical AWD), the planted feeling on the highway, etc. The Wilderness looks really great too, but definitely check out the other trims. My pick would be the XT Touring just because I like the brown leather interior option and the more urban styling but if you plan to go off-roading, you can’t beat the Wilderness! Hope this helps!
Keep in mind that the purpose of the new TNGA platform is simplification of the many platforms Toyota used to built.
This will have a huge economic impact on the cost of building new vehicles under a simplified platform.
Is that savings being passed on to the loyal consumer?
No! On the contrary, a huge increase of more than 20% has been added to the final cost of these newly release model vehicles.
So I gues I am keeping my 2020 4R TRD OR until I die.
I paid $40,000.00 out the door for it.
There is no way I could afford to pay dbl or more for a baby LC 250 let alone a GX 550
The "250" is so deceptive as it would indicate it is a bit better than the 200 LC but less than the 300 LC.
Let's think about the prices for the upcoming 6th gen 4R.
The problem is people will pay whatever Toyota ask for their vehicles so it leaves people like us that want to watch how we expend our hard earned money in a dificult situation.
However, I would never buy a Jeep Grand Cherokee. I looked into buying one but relaiabily drove me to Toyota.
Completely agree with everything! However, if you’re unable to get over a less reliable vehicle, you’ll be stuck paying the prices for Toyota. I’ve had Fords, Volvos, and other less reliable cars and Toyota reliability isn’t the be-all, end-all for me.
I agree, Toyota has started to abuse it's reputation - ultimately to its detriment. I opted for an Isuzu Dmax which gives me comparable reliability with more features for $6k-$8k less!
You are 100 percent correct in your analysis. I've been saying this as well. Toyota has let their reliability record completely go to their head, and has now realized that we Toyota Truck and SUV fans will blindly buy anything they put out. I guess part of this, is the truck market in North America overall, the prices for Trucks, really across all Manufactures has become comical. F-150's, Rams ETC. for over 90-100k is bat shit insane. And people are buying them!!
I think Toyota can latch on to this trend and make Gimmicky re-boots of classic vehicles, and people will salivate over them. But like you said, the new LC is just a 4runner with a Turbo 4 and some flashy new Infotainment. - Great videos BTW. love the channel!
YEP, agreed at the prices of all trucks. Here in Texas we still seem to have some good discounts ($10-$15 off most half ton trucks) but still way, way higher than they used to be. And thanks as always for watching!!
Didn’t sound like a rant to me. Sounded like facts! Prices are too damn high.
You are so correct in your assessment of the new LC and GX. We have a 18 LC and a 21 GX. Neither Toyota nor Lexus will tempt us to replace what we have with what they are now offering. Prior Toyotas a 2011 4Runner Trail and 2010 Highlander Limited 4wd with combined touble free 550K miles. Expect our LC and GX to duplicate if not double that number.
Could not agree more! Everything you say here is why we decided to pull the trigger on my V8 GX and our V6 Camry. And why nothing in their lineup is really attractive to me anymore. I love the Proven reliability and absolutely buttery smooth driving of the old GR-series V6 and UR-series V8. I also had a 2012 Highlander 4WD! Not the Limited but it was one below so same interior but without the nicer wheels and chrome finishes.
Preach brother, preach! When a car starts costing the same as a small home, we're in serious trouble. Basically all the car manufacturers are saying, 'bend over and say ah'.
The Land Cruiser premium pack up here in Canda starts at 83.3k. And our tax is 13%. Even the Toyota sales guy shook his head wondering WTF. I was in the dealership to ask about the price of the Crown Signia. Now we get the pleasure to see the new 4Runner this week. I wonder what that is going to look like and how it's going to be priced.
Before tax yours is cheaper but after tax it’s about the same doing a dollar to dollar currency conversion. But yeah, it’s unfortunate all around!
Nar your completely right price for this is out of control I really really want one but can't justify the price either. I'll be doing what many of us Toyota owners are doing and keeping what I have, happily.
Enjoyed your commentary Josh! I largely agree , a margin grab for sure! I’m relatively new to the Toyota experience, I own a 21 Rav 4 Prime , and previously a base SR5 Tacoma 4x4. Previous to that Hondas, Chevys and run of the mill company cars . In Canada we have not yet got the pricing for the new Land Cruiser , but if I extrapolate and see the price differences (exchange) in Canada vs USA on the : 4 Runner, Tacoma , Lexus GX , Tundra …… …then I can estimate in Canada the 1958 Land Cruiser will be between $72-76 k CDN. Very high indeed!
But I have to say the resale ,reliability ,and quality will likely keep me with the Toyota brands. Jeep Grand Cherokees plummet in value by comparison, and Stellantis is using a lot more Italian, French engineering components???
Keep up the great videos…..and if you really want to see overpricing, and under engineering ,check out new pontoon boats….70’s technology using : aluminum pontoons, plywood, Vinyl, with a 200 hp Merc hanging off the back for $100k CDN. 😮
Thank you! And thank you for watching! I also know Toyota isn’t sending the base 1958 model to Canada for some reason so your lineup will start with the “Land Cruiser” trim I built in the video. Also yes, Stellantis is using more Italian and French components but for me the fact that the Grand Cherokee still has the Mopar V6 and Hemi V8 options are appealing.
Interesting. They have had the 1958 edition on the Canadian site since the initial announcement and several outlets are saying that one is going to start at $69,290cdn from just a few days ago.
@Bonjurro Oh that’s interesting! I remember Zack and Andrea of Motormouth saying that you weren’t getting that one! Maybe Toyota changed its mind so they could say that the model as a whole has a lower starting price, LOL.
canadian pricing is available from Marcelo on the “toyota world” youtube channel if you are interested.
You are absolutely right. I have been buying new Toyotas for years. First time I am considering buying a used one due to inflated pricing and global shift to turbo engines.
Yep! I’m so glad I got my GX new. Not interested in their prices or new turbo engines.
Great video. I totally agree. I just recently bought a 2023 Lexus GX460 Premium Plus. I love it. I am not paying that price for a new GX or Land Cruiser either.
Congrats! I think ours will be future classics for sure.
I'm not sure if you seen the latest TFL video on the new Tacoma, but it looks like they blew the transfer case in mild trail riding... Certainly calls into question the TNGA platform that almost all of these vehicles will share in some capacity. Not only are they much more expensive, but is the quality of materials and MFG process even similar to the outgoing? Like you, I'm on my 7th new Toyota/Lexus vehicle I've bought new in the last decade. Starting to think the haydays may be passing us by with the LC200/GX460/5.7 Tundra and 4Runner V6. Might be wise to start finding low mileage, single owner samples with clear maintenance history vehicles and sit on them....
Whoa! No I had not seen that but I will definitely be checking it out! Also validates my belief that even with Toyota vehicles it’s always good to wait a year or two for them to work out all the kinks… though that’s pretty bad. And then over on Car Confections their new Santa Fe with 27 miles needed a new transmission. SMH. I will be keeping my tried and true aged Toyota for the rest of my life at this point.
Per TFL it was something to do with the front differential actuator...but still concerning
Love this breakdown and I too was wondering why the prices have been shooting up so much!
Amazing down to earth view thanks for seeing reality.
Thanks for watching!
Very honest assessment. Novelty and loyalty over substance is what Toyota sees about its customers. Cloth seat in Landcruiser? You should have said something about the spare tire and ground clearance just to make room for the batteries. At the dealership in Maryland where I inspected the vehicle, the salesmen realized that I was being thorough. Stripped to a cardboard and bare bones is what the new Landcruiser is. Lots of rattling plastic from the bumpers to the grills. Customers being taken for granted. I’m glad you didn’t join the hype of other reviewers. A salesman asked me if I will pay the same price for a top or flagship Hyundai or Kia. That told me a lot about the overhyped integrity of Toyota. The new Supra was overhyped as well and didn’t sell. 😢 I’m still driving a Toyota, my fifth, but for these new Twin-Turbos?
Yep spot on! I got to drive a 1958 and have a video on that on the channel it’s a joke. Agree with everything you say here.
One note, though: the ground clearance isn’t affected by the battery, it sits under the floor in the cargo area, which presents a whole other set of problems (150 pound load weight limit over the battery compartment, no third row, high floor, etc.).
I agree .I own two Prado,s . Both petrol V6 models . Super reliable great cars . In my country the new one costs almost double what a Pajero Sport is .
Josh, make sure to share your thoughts about upcoming mini landcruiser
I’m skeptical about that, I imagine it’ll be similar to the Suzuki Jimny in that we won’t get it here in the US market. I think our lineup is going to be full with the new 4Runner coming too.
I agree 110% with you Josh! I need to buy a new car next year (my younger son will inherit my car when he goes to college). I had wanted to buy a Lexus RX350, but between the price going through the roof and Lexus moving away from their traditional buyers who want luxury (following the general trend to placate car reviewers who - unlike you - generally rate cars on how sporty they are), I've decided to look elsewhere. It would be great if you reviewed some of the Genesis products, as I think they are aiming where Lexus used to be (and are a much better value - not so much cheaper, but you get more for your money). The other option I am seriously considering is foregoing a new car and actually going for a Mercedes 300D Turbodiesel wagon - I love the look, the luxury of the ride, the decent mileage and how virtually indestructible they are (no worries about having to replace hybrid batteries or screens that control everything in your car - cannot get anything analog today!). Thanks for your rant and listening to mine! 😃
I actually have a review of the turbo RX350 coming out next week! And personally I would not buy it.
Genesis is okay but be sure to do your homework on the depreciation of them and Hyundai/Kia’s sketchy record when it comes to fixing problems for customers. Right now, Genesis actually depreciates faster and harder than the Germans because we don’t have any long-term data on dependability or customer desirability. Will anyone want a 5-year old Genesis? We don’t really know. On the customer service front, Hyundai/Kia burned a lot of people on the Theta 2 engine debacle and the whole “Kia boys” theft ring. Neither of those affect Genesis but it’s worth noting how they treated customers who were affected. Both times, MANY class action lawsuits had to be filed before the company reluctantly started to do something to fix the issues. Something else most car reviewers don’t ever talk about.
And it’s funny you mention the MB Turbodiesel because I was thinking while reading your comment that you might want to go used because you could search for a really nice 2022 RX350 or 2023 GX460!
I agree with you. I have a 4runner but i am not going to pay these high prices for another one.
I’m with you. I’ve owned many Toyotas, two 80 series LC. I currently have an FJ with about 80,000 miles. I’ve been tempted to trade it for Pro FourRunner but can’t get around pricing. Really don’t want the new turbo editions.
I think your FJ Cruiser is really special. But I can understand wanting to buy a new 4Runner and honestly even though the prices are sky high, they hold their value (like your FJ). I bought mine in 2019 and sold it 4 years later for around $5K more than I paid for it new. So, that to say, if you buy one now, you won’t be out too much money if you want/need to sell it down the line. And I absolutely think the 4Runner is worth buying before the V6 goes away.
Excellent breakdown. There was a time in the world when businesses rewarded the consumer for their litalty with lower/stabilizeed pricing. Today, the inverse is true. Consumers are punished with higher prices as the product popularity goes up. We are living in a backwards universe. Only pragmatic, lucid, non-zombies will vote with their wallets. Great job.
Could not agree more! Cheers!
It's greed man everyone wants to make money nowadays since life is becoming more unaffordable!
I completely agree! Since 2019, the auto market has increased dramatically. During the covid times, car dealerships completely took advantage of car buyers in the used markets. Now, post covid, I feel auto manufacturers saw what had happened with used car prices, so now they’re taking advantage of new car buyers. What’s the answer, don’t buy them….i know, that maybe easier said than done for many. If you bought that same 4Runner TRD pro today, you would pay around $57,000. The 4 Runners haven’t changed much in the 15 years of the 5th generation. I’m really waiting to see what the pricing will be on the 6th gen 4Runners. The Tacoma prices are insane and not many seemed to be buying them. Time will tell…..might be time to look at a KIA Telluride…. Reliability matters, no doubt, but it matters more if I plan to keep it for more than 7 years, which I don’t usually do. Keep making your videos!
Yep! Completely agrrr with everything you say here.
Great points… I’m a long time Toyota fan (vehicles and company) but I’ve been pretty disappointed in the rollout of the new 250 in the states
I was just thinking about the cost over time if I bought another brand. I could spend $10k on repairs and still pay less for a new Toyota. Great points in this video!
Hey Josh! The price of Toyota/Lexus SUVs has gotten out of control, but there is still good value in their sedans and coupes. You can buy a fully loaded Lexus ES with Naturally Aspirated V6 for around 50-55k or a Lexus RC 350AWD with a naturally aspirated V6 for 60k. Get the V6 while you still can, before everything goes to a turbocharged 4cylinder engine!
Yes! We own a V6 Camry that we bought specifically because it has now gone away, and I fully intend to keep my GX460 for as long as it will run.
I couldn’t agree with you more. It’s very sad what Toyota and Lexus are doing. These types of pricing will definitely cause them to loose their loyal lexus base. As the owner of a 2018 GX 460 and a 2019 Es 300h, I will have to look elsewhere when considering to upgrade. It’s very very unfortunate and I hope that Lexus/Toyota and all the other car companies realize this, otherwise folks will just continue to keep their current vehicles. The car crash has already started to happen with Porsche and it’s a matter of time, before the same happens with Toyota and Lexus, unless they take a proactive and strategic approach to sell more new vehicles and keep their loyal fan base.
Yes! Completely agree here, and am hoping to keep my Rav Prime and GX for as long as they’ll run since I don’t see Toyota/Lexus ever coming back around to the kinds of cars they used to make (or the value that they used to be). Lexus has also said that they intend to be a fully BEV automaker by 2030 so we’ll have to see how that pans out for them too.
Totally agree. Just traded my 2015 4Runner for a new one for similar reasons. Wanted to get one of the last 5th gens before they strip it down to a turbo 4 while simultaneously raising the price.
Yep! Same thought I had in trading my 4Runner for my GX, knowing both were going to get downgraded engines and upgraded prices.
@@joshjamescars The TFL video this week of the new Tacoma snapping a CV on the trail is a great example. Toyota's legendary reputation for quality seems to be plummeting on these newer vehicles.
Great show 😊 ! I just purchased a 2024 4Runner Limited, I traded in my trusty Ford F150 truck . I am so far pretty happy with the purchase and I like the 4Runner for its reliability and durability . Do you know if there is a new 4Runner coming out soon ?
Congrats on the new 4Runner! We should be seeing a new one coming out this year as a 2025 model, but it will share a lot with the new Tacoma and Land Cruiser including the 4-cylinder engines and likely will not have a full time 4WD system, so I think you made the right decision buying yours when you did.
Finally a voice of reason!
Thanks so much for posting this. I have two thoughts about this new pricing: 1 - Toyota just decided to take the profits, being made by the dealers in markups, for themselves. Pricing for new TRD pros and other models have been higher for years due to markups, so this new MSRP pricing will not allow dealers to post those crazy $10-15k markups (of course they can try, but now an Overtrail+ with that sort of markup would be 100k). 2 - In looking at comments on the new LC or GX I rarely see an existing owner saying anything positive about the pricing - we all know the outstanding value of the previous-generation Toyota/Lexus trucks - even the old 200 series LC, at 95K out the door, was an amazing vehicle (I test drove it). These new trucks? Expensive, and I am seeing a series of recalls by Toyota this week - a very onerous sign indeed :(
Sadly we’re already seeing dealers and distributors adding crap on top of these GXs. Check out this post on Reddit that someone posted of their allocation. It had $9K of accessories on top of an Overtrail and literally was $104K. I would have laughed myself out of the dealer: www.reddit.com/r/LexusGX/s/EeQsG1vG4e
@@joshjamescarsThanks for sharing - looks like Lexus and its dealers are trying to move more upscale, into Land Rover territory, leaving folks like us behind. To be determined if they will be successful - with this strategy they don't have to focus as much on reliability, as Land Rover consistently ranks very low on the reliability scale in any case.
Hi Josh! You forgot to mention the luxury GX 460 was running in the 70’s. I test drove one that was 72,000.00 in 2022. It was atomic silver with the red interior. I didn’t like the color combination. I did like the multi terrain monitor and 360 view. However, I started thinking by the time taxes and tags and any other fees were added it would have been around $80,000.00. So I got the premium plus with the Mark Levinson sound system. Then the 2023 comes out with the black line edition that the 360 camera is standard. In 2022 we could not get the trailer hitch for that year GX because they weren’t available. I think Lexus has been considered a bargain compared to the competitors. So maybe this is a way of increasing their A game. Now offering more trim levels and options that their other vehicles offer. In regard to Toyota’s pricing the Sequoia is running in the $80,000.00 range. I don’t think there are any vehicles now that are reasonably price. Thanks for the review,
Hi Joann! That was mentioned in the video that came before this one about the new GX550. But yes! You’re entirely right. And also yes at the sequoia being $80K… that at least is more in line with its competitors like Tahoe and Expedition, though.
Oops sorry! I guess I missed that part. Thanks for responding.
@joannwhite9267 No worries that was a different video before this one! :)
Absolutely agree with everything mentioned here. The Land Cruiser is a perplexing purchase, and this is coming from a long-time fan of the car. I was shocked at the value the GX (both 460 and 550) seemed to provide in comparison.
Yes! Same here! I also think the GX is overpriced when you look at what you have to pay to get the features most people will want but you’re right that it seems to provide more value than the Land Cruiser.
Agree 💯, a Lexus GX550 Overtrail trim in Canada is over $100k CAD. The Landcruiser price hasn't been released up here, however I suspect it will start at $68k for the base 1958 edition.
Hello! Your pricing went live right after ours. Starts at $69 and goes up to $90 for the First Edition. Check out the Canada press release here: media.toyota.ca/en/releases/2024/toyota-canada-announces-pricing-for-all-new-2024-toyota-land-cru.html
I am right there brother, I am a big toyota fan, but I just can't do the new Prado’s for 300 series pricing. Surprisingly we picked up an Armada and I really like it, also consider a frontier for a truck.
Hi Josh, I enjoy watching 14:20 your video. I agree with you totally. I am glad I purchased the 2023 GX460 in June. If I need to pay $75K plus market adjustment for the brand new toyota Land Cruiser, I’d rather to switch to another brand. With the new electronic gadget, it won’t be cheap to repair even for toyota. That is why I stick with the old school SuV
Glad you were able to get the GX460 while you could! I’ll be holding onto mine for as long as it will run.
Spot on. I just about choked when I started playing with the builder and realized... the build I would do for a Land Cruiser, put me squarely matched on price with a GX550 Overtrail. Holy sh*t!
If you want another laugh, price out a 24 Tacoma Off Road with the faux leather seats and detachable swaybar. What I was gunning for hit $57k.... "TSRP".
Frankly, I think Toyota lost its mind.
Choked is a great word! I did the same! And oh I know not to mention they seem scared to even release pricing on the TRD Pro and Trail Hunter grades.
Love the humility!!! Yeah Toyota supersized the bill, much more than we ever imagined.
I agree with you man..Used to be a Toyota guy here, two 4 runners and one Prado..suddenly 4Rs and Prados prices went up like rockets and 0 stock...and also that poor gas efficiency makes me crazy...now I am super happy with my 2023 2,5 Forester Sport and my 22 Jimny...both made in japan and both very very handy...love Toyota but prices are insane here and service is even more pricey,..I mean 400 US for an oil and filter change, cmon now..
Oh I love the Jimny. If we could buy one here, I’d have one. And I love the Forester, too! I had an Outback at one point and it was great. Also, where are you where an oil change is $400!?
@@joshjamescars In the land where Hilux (and not Tacos or Tundras) are Toyota´s most important vehicles.....Toyota´s services are very expensive here in the very south (Chile..)
pricing is bad for consumers :-( but good for toyota shareholders :-). Like it or not, toyota management’s number 1 priority is to maximize profit for shareholders. And if I had to guess, production capacity will be limited and toyota is simply pricing the land cruiser at the estimated point where they think the demand will equal supply. Having toyota remain financially strong also allows them to continue to invest in desirable future products.
This is all completely true and I hope that investment in the future yields some better products than what we’re getting today.
Makes me even more happy that i have a 2022 FJ Cruiser.
Great vid. Btw, care to hint at what you do for a living to be able to buy a 4Runner and GX in the last 5 years? No pressure though. Cheers!
Oh I’ve been pretty open about that! :) I am very fortunate work in software engineering and design for a Fortune 500 company and my husband works in the semiconductor industry and we also don’t have any kids. And thank you!
I totally agree. I was just making many of these same points to my wife this morning. I even picked many of the same options on my dream new Land Cruiser. My only disagreement is with your wheel choice. I'm not a fan of large rims, especially when they are silver.
Haha we have good taste! ;) And the 20” wheels are actually a dark gunmetal finish not silver. I’ve seen the stock wheels in person and I personal was not a fan. But they’re not bad.
Yup. On the money. What’s most frustrating is, from what I’ve heard, the first 5000 trucks off the assembly line (destined for the US) are the first editions. Then, I’ve heard production numbers won’t be as high as the GX, so limited supply will keep up the prices. So, as my 04 landcruiser tries to die, I’m constantly considering what to buy. I don’t know the answer. The Jeep is interesting. And with a warranty, they only problem with reliability will be visits to the dealer, theoretically.
Oh wow I hadn’t heard that but I also wouldn’t be surprised. I believe the same is true of Lexus (that the first ones out will be the most expensive). I think you might want to see if you can find a 2023 GX while you still can and snatch it up. You could sell it in a few years if you end up wanting the new one. But I think it’s the closest thing you can get to your 04 Land Cruiser.
@@joshjamescars yes. Wife has a 17 GX. It drives more like my LC than an 08 LC I bought then sold 6 mos later. The 08 (first of the last gen 200 series) was a beast to drive. Not sure about later models of the 200 series.
@steveh545 Oh yeah, the 200 series was a much bigger vehicle and definitely more of a handful. Great car but the LC 200 and LX570 would have been too big for me.
I do have to say, the new Land Cruiser in white with the middle package is sharp.
Nicely equipped it looks to be $66k - $69k when I build it.
Might be worth that based on its legacy and compared to the rest of the competition.
I think for $69K you owe it to yourself to also look at the Lexus GX. Also, the “legacy” is questionable given that this isn’t the real Land Cruiser but rather the Land Cruiser Prado. Which is a great car (my GX is also a Land Cruiser Prado) but still, I would rather have the V6 and the Lexus dealer and service experience for that price.
@@joshjamescars I agree the Lexus dealership experience is better than Toyota.
We've had so many Lexus vehicles over the years.
Perhaps I am unique, however, I like the Toyota name/marque better than Lexus.
Around here, Lexus always implies someone (typically a realtor or the like) who leases one and is trying to be flashy--even though they aren't wealthy.
Kind of like driving a C Class Mercedes, BMW, Land Rover/Range Rover---all flash and no cash. The LV purse of the car industry.
That may differ based on the geography.
@georgetown8986 That’s really interesting! Most Lexus owners I know buy their cars and most pay cash and then they keep them forever so I always see wonderful, well-preserved older Lexus models. Personally if I was going to lease something I would stay away from Lexus since a lease would mean I could get something totally wild and unreliable LOL! So I guess it comes down to are you willing to spend Lexus money for a lesser-grade toyota vehicle just because of what other people might think of you, or do you want the objectively better car that’s much more worth $70K. I don’t ever worry about what the things I buy may conjure up in other peoples’ minds.
Thankyou Josh! I feel the same way. Such a shame, because I love Toyota and lexus. I also believe the GX 460 and 5th gen 4runner provided amazing value for the $$. I purchased my 5th gen 24 trd pro 4runner bc I knew prices for the next 4runner would be stupid, and they would slap a 4cy in it and charge $75k. Same thing for the Tacoma, prices on the new ones are BONKERS, can’t fathom paying $50k+ for a TRD off-road or Trd sport when 3rd gen pros were $50k with options!
Could not agree more! I’m also starting to see the 24 TRD Pros and I’m so glad that one is sticking around for this year since my GX is now gone. And completely agree at the pricing on the new Tacoma. Outrageous, for a Tacoma! That used to be one of the cheapest cars you could buy, period.
That’s why I’m still hanging on to my J150 with the 1GR V6. While you still can save yourself and get the cousin, the 4Runner Limited in Pearl White. The end 😊
Josh spot on! I agree with what you said. You bringing out your toy Prado at the back brought a smile to my face haha!
Yes! I love your 150 Prado and agree completely with getting the 4Runner Limited! And of course! That’s my favorite little model car :)
Really good points buddy. I love the look of the 550 Overtrail but god DAMN, you’re talking $100k after everything and probable interest in this market. Like WOW.
Yep! Completely agree, I also like the look, but not worth the price. And I’ve already seen allocations on Reddit that are over $100K just with MSRP+accessories.
This video is 100% spot on. Toyota doesn't really do web orders either. Tundra was a defect mess. When I think of Toyota now, I think "Customer last: OK Quality and High Dealer Markups". The damage is done.
100% agreed, and absolutely with the tundra being a defect mess. That’s still going on with the transmission recall on it, the Sequoia, and LX600.
My local SoCal Lexus dealers are selling the new GX 550s starting at $103k for the basic model and it goes up from there.
Yep. And there’s an idiot born every minute who will pay that.
Josh, I have watch many of your videos since my interest (and now ownership) of the 2023 GX developed. And, I quickly noticed it seems you have owned many quite expensive vehicles in a short period of time. So, I was just wondering what you and your wife do for a living? I think it comes from my wife and I making a pretty good living, yet the new GX was a very real extreme luxury for us (mainly me), and considering I am a pretty old fart (66) I am trying to figure out if it is partly my frugal nature or you guys just make quite a bit more than we do. And I will add, I live in the part of the country (rural southeast) where the cost of living is probably as cheap as anywhere in the US.
Hello! Great question! I am in the software design and engineering, and my husband is in the semiconductor (microchip) industry. And I agree, the GX was a luxury for us as well given that I was 30 when I bought it, but the price of my GX is somewhere around 25% of my individual total annual income. And even with our total household income we’re still firmly middle class here in Austin! Go figure.
In regard to the cars we’ve bought and sold, we have also just been able to buy cars that are super desirable and thus didn’t depreciate. I actually sold the NX350h and the Prius for exactly what I paid for them and didn’t take a loss on either because at the time we sold each you couldn’t get what I had without waiting for 6-8 months and so people were willing to pay over asking price on the used market. And then I also actual made a PROFIT off of my 4Runner TRD Pro which I bought for $46,500 in 2019 and then sold in 2023 for $50,000 and all that cash went right into my GX.
Anyway, thanks as always for watching!
US dollar to Japanese Yen is now around $1 to 150 yen.. Japanese manufacturer will make the big profit in next few years partly due to very favorable exchange rate.
Hey men I totally agree with you, even our car journalist cant get this right. Basically, they saying the prado is the new landcruiser... when Jalopnik gets this wrong then Jesus take the wheel, I mean they know they can jack up prices and thats the reality of post covid cuz everyone can hike up anything nowdays.
Could not agree more! But I’ve also noticed a lot of these media outlets not being critical of the automakers, so I’m guessing they’re also either ignorantly or purposefully sticking to the narrative that Toyota has given them in the press releases.
Coming from Toyota, I am surprised you would not go with Acura/Honda, or Mazda, but I could see your point if wanted body on frame. I will just keep mine for looong time. I have a GS450H that I could not part over a new Camry, cars nowadays even from Lexus don’t have the RWD and natural aspirated motors. Cheaper parts, cheaper feel, more power and a whole much more expensive. If you drove last model GS, I think you would like it more than your very nice V6 Camry. Camry weighs much less, would not surprise me if faster, but the Grand Sedan is soo great…
Hello! Regarding Acura/Honda and Mazda, I personally value design and a plush interior and that’s something only Lexus ever really did right (though not anymore), and although I’ve been very faithful to Toyota/Lexus, that was why I bought my 2016 XC90 it had an absolutely stellar exterior and interior design, the way the Grand Cherokee does. And yes! The GS is absolutely terrific, I so regret buying one when I could have gotten one new. That’s the only reason we didn’t buy one instead of the Camry is to buy one today would mean buying a 4 year old car and since we plan to keep it for a good long time, we wanted to buy new.
Thanks for speaking up. THeyll eventually realize this pricing mistake
You spoke my mind; I was considering waiting for the Crown Signia to replace my 2013 BMW 3 series, but at the current pace of toyota pricing, I might as well just stay with BMW, and pay an extra $3,000 - $4,000 on extended Warranty - enjoy the smoothest inline 6 in the world for about the same money or less than the first edition Land Cruiser BS.
Yes! Read the fine print on the BMW extended warranties. They’ve changed them recently to exclude any and all technology (including headlights and safety system, I believe) which is what’s most likely to have issues as the car ages versus the drivetrain which it covers.
@@joshjamescars that's for sharing, this is very valuable. I will see if that's the case here in Canada
You know there are already recalls coming out on the GX 550, plus unless you get the overtrail trim the 550 will not be comparable to the GX 460. I have a 22 GX 460, but no way in hell I would by the GX 550. Not as they are today. Nice video.
I haven’t heard that but I know there is a transmission recall on the Tundra, Sequoia, and LX600. And I also will not be trading my 460 for the 550.
Exactly 100% - I can buy a 2023 GX460 Luxury brand new now for $67k with great reliability record and it’s a tank.
Yes! Not for long, but yes!
@@joshjamescars love your videos!
Nice review. Thanks! I completely agree.
Thanks for watching!
Love the video man. Subbed. I agree with everything you said.
Thank you! And welcome aboard!
I am also shocked with the price. I owned Prado 2006 brand new then 2012 brand new. You are absolutely right it's not worth with that price.
Those are great cars I hope the 2012 Prado is still serving you well!
I totally agree with your assessment. Toyota is putting their fan base at risk with these ongoing price increases.
Yep! I guess they’re banking on building a new fanbase to carry them through the next few decades.
You are singing my song, brother... I have an actual Land Cruiser and a Tacoma. It's outrageous where the prices have gone. It's not totally Toyotas' fault. Everything has gone up an insane amount. But yeah, I feel you pain.
Spot on!!! I have owned Toyotas for over 11 years and I feel like we are losing the holistic value and pride that Toyota once represented as a buyer. I have a 4R Pro and a GX460. We will most likely just keep them and afterwards hesitantly move to another brand.
Yep!! 100% same feeling here. I will say I just had a QX60 in for review that blew me away and I would happily buy that over a RX, GX, or TX.
I see lots of comments about the new Landcruiser and comparing it to the GX. I'm assuming that changed with the new Landcruiser. I always thought the Landcruiser was based on the Lexus "LX" and not the "GX". I know my LX is the same as the Landcruiser for the same year because I have a friend with the same year Landcruiser. I like the 3 trim levels on the new Landcruiser - you can get the round lights with the cheap and expensive versions and the square lights on the middle trim. The new Landcruiser is pretty expensive and I might go with a loaded up 4 Runner instead. I hate that 3rd row that is never used by my family. I will definitely buy a Toyota.
A bit of background here. Your LX is a Land Cruiser 200 series.
Globally, there have always been two Land Cruisers. First, there is the big Land Cruiser (80, 90, 100, 200, and 300 series) which the LX was based upon. Then alongside that, there has always been a smaller Land Cruiser called “Prado” (150 and 250 series) which is a completely different vehicle. North America never got the Land Cruiser Prado but we did get the GX that was based on it (same way your LX is a rebadged Land Cruiser 200, my GX460 is a rebadged Land Cruiser Prado 150).
This new 2024 US-market Land Cruiser is the new Land Cruiser Prado and NOT the newest Land Cruiser 300 series. They’re just calling it the Land Cruiser there in the states because we don’t get the new Land Cruiser 300. But the naming is misleading because a lot of people like you are thinking that it’s the next generation of the real Land Cruiser which it isn’t.
Also, I think buying the upcoming 4Runner is a better use of money since it’ll be nearly identical in spec (midsize, body on frame with turbo-4 engines) to this new Land Cruiser.
Josh, just found your channel and really appreciate your thoughts. I'm looking to get a midsize SUV with AWD now, and am comparing a few options. Could you make a video about your thoughts on the pricing and comparison of the Mazda CX-50, Honda CR-V, Subaru Outback, and toyota RAV4?
Hello! I would personally count the CX50 out right away. It’s had lower than average reliability and I found the seats to be really hard. The Outback is a great choice but is much bigger than the others you mention which are compact vacuoles; the Outback is a midsize vehicle. The Forester would be the direct competitor to the others-the forester is a great choice too, btw! The nice thing about the CR-V and RAV4 are that you can get a hybrid which is how I would go. Both are well priced and really efficient as well. The CR-V hybrid I think looks, feels, and drives like a more premium vehicle, but the Rav hybrid offers far more features (like a panoramic moonroof, 360 camera, head up display, wireless CarPlay, etc.)
I agree with you 100% we have bought 5 toyota and lexus but are now looking at Infinty qx60 and maybe the coming 2025 acura mdx what do you think?
I think those two are great. I’d probably lean MDX just because of the Honda association but I think the QX60 is bigger and it looks more luxurious. Nissan’s VQ-series V6 is also nearly as legendary as Toyota’s GR V6.
Same. Tempted to just go back and look for cream puff earlier models I enjoyed from before.
I think that’s a great idea especially before more people think to do that too. There are a number of these that I think will be future classics.
Maybe I'm weird, but I think the 2.4 hybrid is a lot more compelling than the GX's V6. At first the GX Overtrail was appealing to me as well, but after driving the non-hybrid 2.4 in the new Tacoma, I really like it. The GX550's 17 MPG and required premum (currently $4.72/gal) don't make much sense to me. Thankfully, I don't need the premium package, and ~$64k isn't far off what a Tacoma with the hybrid seems like it will cost.
That's not to say everything, especially Toyotas, don't seem insanely priced. The last car I bought was a GTI in 2019, and it was $30k out the door. With options!
The hybrid max/iForce max system is great! And I’ve always said if I had to buy one or the other I would definitely buy it the Land Cruiser with the turbo hybrid 4. Since I can’t get my V8 in the GX anymore I would save myself the money and buy the Land Cruiser! And to your point, the 17mpg average is only 1 better than my V8 anyway.