My guess is Gen2 is primarily the result of a “cost out” effort. The first versions of products often have higher manufacturing costs than desired by the business. Thereafter, engineering identifies ways to squeeze cost out for subsequent products. It’s Marketing’s job to convince customers that the new thing is better, even if there aren’t meaningful improvements. The slower processor board might support this theory. One feature that was mentioned in the Shaper introduction that I haven’t heard more about: The lack of a pressure sensor bar on the bottom of the Gen2 bottom plate to detect the bit touching the work surface. I would love to learn how Gen2 accomplishes this critical task. (That bar on my Gen1 Origin is a mild annoyance at times. This might be one meaningful improvement.)
That's probably exactly right. It may also be that the components are no longer available or better Hardware is available cheaper now and the upgrade is just the next natural path. Take the time to upgrade the screen while they're at it.
As for the bar. It's no longer there that's for sure. I didn't know that that's what that pad did honestly. I do find that zetouch seems a little bit more reliable that may be a result of the cameras as much as the integrated pad in the bottom
I'm not sure the third axis is coming. It's less about the technology as the basic premise of how the machine works resting directly on the workpiece. If you look at 3D projects,there is rarely much original work surface left. Plus this machine only has a bit more than an inch of reach. Origin wasn't designed with those kinds or projects in mind. That's my personal take. You want 3 D carving, you want your router on a gantry.
@@80211Denver Yep. Actually I was being semi-sarcastic. I've watched what even a small CNC does when it's carving. Doing that on the SO would be like carving by hand. Different application.
UPDATE: The one thing I definitely see as better on Gen 2: FAR more tolerant of low tape coverage. It seems to do quite well when I get to the point where I had to add tape on Gen 1. I'm curious as I write this if I can start with less tape. I should do some tests ---------- Bottom line, where the bit is hitting the wood, the machine doesn't matter that much. If you have a Gen 1 machine, be proud. It's served me well and I have no reason to own Gen 2 other than I can. I will post more later if I grow to feel otherwise.
Thanks for the comparison. I ordered my Gen2 and waiting for it to arrive...luckily I was able to sell my Gen1 for a pretty good price. I also do not see any major advantages of gen2, but the statements in their announcement regarding the custom steppers and board made me think...perhaps this is the base for some future (more software driven) features...
Definately possible. I need to do a follow up now having used Gen 2. Screen froze on me once during cut. Not long enough to drift but... Never had that on gen 1
Really hope they parallel develop features for gen 1 and 2, rather than gen 1 no longer receiving updates. Would be a massive turnoff to see gen 1 not receive updates it's physically capable of performing.
Currently both are getting the same updates. Perhaps the internals in gen 2 could allow for 3D printing down the road? I've forced the cut to fail by pushing to machine to far/fast and it retracts quickly but, not noticeably faster than gen 1. So Z axis movement doesn't seem to have a big improvement here. Processing power might be higher in Gen 2 with new tech. Perhaps better on tool drawing but... I dunno how attractive that is. Range of motion appears to be identical. I can't see a clear way gen 1 will get left behind as of yet.
First off. Thanks. This is good information. I appreciate that you took the time to produce and post it. Second, love your Roubo. Was this built from the Wood Whisperer guild project, or did you just build it bespoke from some plans you got elsewhere? I really love mine. Challenging to build, but it was early in my journey, and I learned so much. Third, I don't recall you soliciting feedback on the content or the video itself. You took the time to put something out there that you would find interesting. It boggles my mind that people spend their time out here offering unsolicited reviews and advice on the content and production. I'm guessing none of these people are doing anything to move the craft/art forward, just lurking out there to second guess others. What boring people.
Thanks for the kind words Paul. I was watching the release of Gen 2 and saw a lot of negative comments suggesting that anyone with a Gen 1 "missed out and was getting screwed". I had the means to get a Gen 2 and it came so fast I thought I would do my own comparison. I'm still using it and find it's generally the same with the exception of better low tape tolerance. The video is really off the cuff and suffers from shaky camera. I could have thought it out better. Glad you liked it. The bench is based off Benchcrafted plans since I'm using their hardware. 90% of it is to spec with maybe the exception of the tool holder in the middle. It sits on a slanted base so I can slide it up to any height as a plane stop rather that just up or down... it can be adjusted between flush and 5/8 inch infinitely. There are the occasional rude comments which I just chalk up as part of the internet as we know it. Most people are just fine in my book
Improved servos and main board. Probably learn a bit from my Gen 1 that was ruined after being submerged under water. Main board and spindle survived but the servos seized up. Function wise, adding depth perception in Jenner is cool.
I think that just comparing these two hand held CNCs by just looking at the external looks is like comparing a well kept and detailed ford fiesta to a new a new Porsche Carrera. Yes they both get you from point A to B, they both have paint jobs and are shiny, they both have clean interiors. BUT when you look at handling capabilities fit and finish, interior plushness and refinements. Their is not comparison. Of course one is much more expensive. And in if the Origin internals paired with the new firmware are significantly improved than for the modest increase in cost that is significant. Also two things they mentioned in the announcement: 1. 2 new positioning motors ( commonly call stepper motors ) the best are micron level. 2. New software to coincide with the new stepper motors. The heart of the Origin is the software for monitoring positioning in the circle and the next part is how fast and accurate to control the called for delta between the users movement and where it needs to be. As someone who has used multiple macro photography macro photo rails I can say with confidence there is a vast difference in stepper motors especially when changing direction due to lag and what's called play. I have both the Gen 1 and Gen 2 now. And will be selling the Gen 1.
The bit is the same, the spindle is the same. wood is wood. I have been using v1 for absolutely seamless inlays for years. after using v2 a handful of times, there's no distinguishable difference. If you're the type who's going to tell me that monster cables produce a better sound on the same pair of speakers... you be you. But I know what I see and feel. The -only- noticeable difference in the end is the screen size. I suspect that the electronics they can buy are better/cheaper/old stuff no longer available. That doesn't mean the machine is any better. Perhaps something is hidden in there that will produce 3-d cuts. Jenner depth encoding suggests it's possible. But until they tell us so... You're opinion can just be that and nothing more.
I have found it does do better with less tape than Gen 1. I had the screen freeze on me once which was very odd. And once when I re-scanned a workspace it completely lost the old one (added tape that had been cut away. So.. might be a few bugs to work out in the software.
Sorry you had to endure it! It's definitely better reading tape when coverage is low! And, I suspect the processor is more powerful for features down the road one day. I want a reverse scanning feature.. trace to drawing. Pipe dreams
Sure. On the old device the plate includes a bar near the front edge that I believe is pressure-sensitive. So when you are recalibrating the depth of the bit I think that's the plate that detects when the vice lifts off the table. On the new device you don't see that shape. The entire surface is one flat space. I believe they talked about advancements related to the pressure sensitivity on the bottom technologically
It's been on my to buy radar for a couple years. Was finally getting close to a purchase and then saw the Gen 2 version. Now I'm back to chewing on it mode.
It's such a great machine. The more I use it the more uses I find. Things I would never have used a cnc for are just plain easy on this once you get the hang of it. It'll be years before gen 3. Get the most for your money now!
@@80211Denver Yeah, it will happen. I’ve tinkered around with cnc machines for years, built several, bought several but was always constrained in size both in the size of my shop, the cnc, and how big I could make things. With the Shaper there really are no boundaries.
@@drez2001 It's true. I also have a Yeti CNC that does full 4x8 and breaks down, ducks away. It has it's moments but 99% of the time, shaper is there for the job. Station was a big improvement but plate is a total game changer. It's SO flexible to just drop that down anywhere and go
Because they are slightly different. But when your look at the machines they appear very different due to slight angle changes. Are you ok, or did that cause you some kind of pain
Is it already possible to order gen2? I can't find any info in the european shop. I ordered yesterday not knowing there is a new version. The images in the shop have the logo under the display.... Did I order gen 2 without knowing? Support ist only back on monday to answer my mail... damn...
Gen 1 was no longer available the day they announced it in the US. I can't speak for Europe but they did have people from Germany on the announcement video so I assume you ordered a gen 2 machine Edit, I ordered this machine that day. I'm not special so I think you're getting gen 2
I noticed the Gen 2 didn't come with a hose and the Gen 1 did. I only had my Gen one for a week before they announced the Gen 2 so I sent mine back and got the new one.
@@iq0099 I have to disagree as well here. I just got a Gen 2 a week ago. I was blown away by the accuracy after my first cut. I have been looking to buying a full size CNC that can do 4x8 sheet goods and Its way higher in price range than an origin. For the price they charge its a no brainer if you are looking to save money on CNC machining and its portable. You also save space and your cut area is astronomical.
My guess is Gen2 is primarily the result of a “cost out” effort. The first versions of products often have higher manufacturing costs than desired by the business. Thereafter, engineering identifies ways to squeeze cost out for subsequent products. It’s Marketing’s job to convince customers that the new thing is better, even if there aren’t meaningful improvements. The slower processor board might support this theory.
One feature that was mentioned in the Shaper introduction that I haven’t heard more about: The lack of a pressure sensor bar on the bottom of the Gen2 bottom plate to detect the bit touching the work surface. I would love to learn how Gen2 accomplishes this critical task. (That bar on my Gen1 Origin is a mild annoyance at times. This might be one meaningful improvement.)
That's probably exactly right. It may also be that the components are no longer available or better Hardware is available cheaper now and the upgrade is just the next natural path. Take the time to upgrade the screen while they're at it.
As for the bar. It's no longer there that's for sure. I didn't know that that's what that pad did honestly. I do find that zetouch seems a little bit more reliable that may be a result of the cameras as much as the integrated pad in the bottom
@@80211Denver Oh!.. Just saw this. I just mentioned that my z-touch works better now in Jenner but getting rid of that pad has got to help in Gen2.
That's funny, I had no idea about that dust tray. Thanks for the video. I feel a bit better now.
heh.. yeah it's been a surprise to many! Gen 1 is a great machine. you're fine
One of the videos I saw discussed the bottom and there were some changes there.
I don't even want to watch this for fear it will piss me off that my $2500 investment is now outdated. 🙂
Bottom line, you're fine. Gen 2 is new parts, very little change. Slightly larger screen, longer power cord, does better with less tape
I can't watch this!! 🙂 OK. I watched. Don't see anything that even marginally makes me suicidal. I'll save that for when Gen 3 has a Z axis CNC mode.
Camera too shaky?
I'm not sure the third axis is coming. It's less about the technology as the basic premise of how the machine works resting directly on the workpiece. If you look at 3D projects,there is rarely much original work surface left. Plus this machine only has a bit more than an inch of reach. Origin wasn't designed with those kinds or projects in mind.
That's my personal take. You want 3 D carving, you want your router on a gantry.
@@80211Denver Yep. Actually I was being semi-sarcastic. I've watched what even a small CNC does when it's carving. Doing that on the SO would be like carving by hand. Different application.
UPDATE:
The one thing I definitely see as better on Gen 2: FAR more tolerant of low tape coverage. It seems to do quite well when I get to the point where I had to add tape on Gen 1. I'm curious as I write this if I can start with less tape. I should do some tests
----------
Bottom line, where the bit is hitting the wood, the machine doesn't matter that much. If you have a Gen 1 machine, be proud. It's served me well and I have no reason to own Gen 2 other than I can. I will post more later if I grow to feel otherwise.
Thanks for the comparison. I ordered my Gen2 and waiting for it to arrive...luckily I was able to sell my Gen1 for a pretty good price. I also do not see any major advantages of gen2, but the statements in their announcement regarding the custom steppers and board made me think...perhaps this is the base for some future (more software driven) features...
Definately possible. I need to do a follow up now having used Gen 2. Screen froze on me once during cut. Not long enough to drift but... Never had that on gen 1
Really hope they parallel develop features for gen 1 and 2, rather than gen 1 no longer receiving updates. Would be a massive turnoff to see gen 1 not receive updates it's physically capable of performing.
Currently both are getting the same updates. Perhaps the internals in gen 2 could allow for 3D printing down the road? I've forced the cut to fail by pushing to machine to far/fast and it retracts quickly but, not noticeably faster than gen 1. So Z axis movement doesn't seem to have a big improvement here. Processing power might be higher in Gen 2 with new tech. Perhaps better on tool drawing but... I dunno how attractive that is. Range of motion appears to be identical. I can't see a clear way gen 1 will get left behind as of yet.
I worry the $200 autopass feature was a warning shot that things are about to significantly change. Hope not.
@@mattchew5965is the auto pass included into the Gen 2?
no it is not.@@Therealphantomzero
@@punksurfer76 what a shame
First off. Thanks. This is good information. I appreciate that you took the time to produce and post it. Second, love your Roubo. Was this built from the Wood Whisperer guild project, or did you just build it bespoke from some plans you got elsewhere? I really love mine. Challenging to build, but it was early in my journey, and I learned so much. Third, I don't recall you soliciting feedback on the content or the video itself. You took the time to put something out there that you would find interesting. It boggles my mind that people spend their time out here offering unsolicited reviews and advice on the content and production. I'm guessing none of these people are doing anything to move the craft/art forward, just lurking out there to second guess others. What boring people.
Thanks for the kind words Paul. I was watching the release of Gen 2 and saw a lot of negative comments suggesting that anyone with a Gen 1 "missed out and was getting screwed". I had the means to get a Gen 2 and it came so fast I thought I would do my own comparison. I'm still using it and find it's generally the same with the exception of better low tape tolerance.
The video is really off the cuff and suffers from shaky camera. I could have thought it out better. Glad you liked it.
The bench is based off Benchcrafted plans since I'm using their hardware. 90% of it is to spec with maybe the exception of the tool holder in the middle. It sits on a slanted base so I can slide it up to any height as a plane stop rather that just up or down... it can be adjusted between flush and 5/8 inch infinitely.
There are the occasional rude comments which I just chalk up as part of the internet as we know it. Most people are just fine in my book
Improved servos and main board. Probably learn a bit from my Gen 1 that was ruined after being submerged under water. Main board and spindle survived but the servos seized up. Function wise, adding depth perception in Jenner is cool.
Ouch
I think that just comparing these two hand held CNCs by just looking at the external looks is like comparing a well kept and detailed ford fiesta to a new a new Porsche Carrera. Yes they both get you from point A to B, they both have paint jobs and are shiny, they both have clean interiors. BUT when you look at handling capabilities fit and finish, interior plushness and refinements. Their is not comparison. Of course one is much more expensive. And in if the Origin internals paired with the new firmware are significantly improved than for the modest increase in cost that is significant. Also two things they mentioned in the announcement:
1. 2 new positioning motors ( commonly call stepper motors ) the best are micron level.
2. New software to coincide with the new stepper motors.
The heart of the Origin is the software for monitoring positioning in the circle and the next part is how fast and accurate to control the called for delta between the users movement and where it needs to be. As someone who has used multiple macro photography macro photo rails I can say with confidence there is a vast difference in stepper motors especially when changing direction due to lag and what's called play.
I have both the Gen 1 and Gen 2 now. And will be selling the Gen 1.
The bit is the same, the spindle is the same. wood is wood. I have been using v1 for absolutely seamless inlays for years. after using v2 a handful of times, there's no distinguishable difference.
If you're the type who's going to tell me that monster cables produce a better sound on the same pair of speakers... you be you.
But I know what I see and feel. The -only- noticeable difference in the end is the screen size. I suspect that the electronics they can buy are better/cheaper/old stuff no longer available. That doesn't mean the machine is any better. Perhaps something is hidden in there that will produce 3-d cuts. Jenner depth encoding suggests it's possible. But until they tell us so... You're opinion can just be that and nothing more.
I have found it does do better with less tape than Gen 1. I had the screen freeze on me once which was very odd. And once when I re-scanned a workspace it completely lost the old one (added tape that had been cut away. So.. might be a few bugs to work out in the software.
I think I just deleted someone's comment by mistake... sorry!
A long video to inform me that there is no benefits in the Gen 2?
Sorry you had to endure it! It's definitely better reading tape when coverage is low! And, I suspect the processor is more powerful for features down the road one day. I want a reverse scanning feature.. trace to drawing. Pipe dreams
Can someone tell me if the sliding soles are the same?
Sure. On the old device the plate includes a bar near the front edge that I believe is pressure-sensitive. So when you are recalibrating the depth of the bit I think that's the plate that detects when the vice lifts off the table. On the new device you don't see that shape. The entire surface is one flat space. I believe they talked about advancements related to the pressure sensitivity on the bottom technologically
It's been on my to buy radar for a couple years. Was finally getting close to a purchase and then saw the Gen 2 version. Now I'm back to chewing on it mode.
It's such a great machine. The more I use it the more uses I find. Things I would never have used a cnc for are just plain easy on this once you get the hang of it. It'll be years before gen 3. Get the most for your money now!
@@80211Denver Yeah, it will happen. I’ve tinkered around with cnc machines for years, built several, bought several but was always constrained in size both in the size of my shop, the cnc, and how big I could make things. With the Shaper there really are no boundaries.
@@drez2001 It's true. I also have a Yeti CNC that does full 4x8 and breaks down, ducks away. It has it's moments but 99% of the time, shaper is there for the job. Station was a big improvement but plate is a total game changer. It's SO flexible to just drop that down anywhere and go
Why do you start the first part of the review with irrelevant dimensions etc.
Because they are slightly different. But when your look at the machines they appear very different due to slight angle changes. Are you ok, or did that cause you some kind of pain
Is it already possible to order gen2? I can't find any info in the european shop. I ordered yesterday not knowing there is a new version.
The images in the shop have the logo under the display.... Did I order gen 2 without knowing? Support ist only back on monday to answer my mail... damn...
Gen 1 was no longer available the day they announced it in the US. I can't speak for Europe but they did have people from Germany on the announcement video so I assume you ordered a gen 2 machine
Edit, I ordered this machine that day. I'm not special so I think you're getting gen 2
@@80211Denver thx for your answer. Really appreciate it. That calms me down.😅
I noticed the Gen 2 didn't come with a hose and the Gen 1 did. I only had my Gen one for a week before they announced the Gen 2 so I sent mine back and got the new one.
I assume you mean a vacuum hose which may have been a special promo deal at one time. Having bought both 1 and 2 I didn't catch such a package.
wait your gen one didnt come with a dust hose? did i get lucky? got mine in 2018. did they phase the hose out?
@@80211Denver
Good conrent but the filming is not very nice to follow. I suggest the you use fixed mount camera next time.
I agree 100%. Shaky cam is shaky!!
Very disappointed
How so?
@@80211Denver ShaperOrigin keep asking for money on their products and are unreasonably over priced
@@iq0099 given the price of regular cnc machines and the easy of use, accuracy here, I'm afraid I have to disagree
@@iq0099 I have to disagree as well here. I just got a Gen 2 a week ago. I was blown away by the accuracy after my first cut. I have been looking to buying a full size CNC that can do 4x8 sheet goods and Its way higher in price range than an origin. For the price they charge its a no brainer if you are looking to save money on CNC machining and its portable. You also save space and your cut area is astronomical.
@@LooneyToonz408 you'll love it. The more you use it, the smaller things you find to use it for that never would have been a consideration before.
2 located on the left? 1 located to the right? that's logical! 👈👉...👍