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Replacing Cylinder on an R-985 Pratt & Whitney Radial Engine
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- Опубліковано 5 сер 2024
- This video shows a cylinder problem I had on my Beech 18 and the process I went through to replace the cylinder with a newly rebuilt one.
This brought back memories. I did a major overhaul on one of these in college! Wonderful engine!
I've been here and done this, started my aviation career back in 1977, going to A&P school and working DC-3's after school. They had R1830 and also had a Martin 404 which had R2800 plenty of jug changes on both. The school had a Beech 18 as well, lots of practice on that too. Nice how to video, thanks for sharing..
As an old AF recip engine mech dealing almost regularly with R-4360 and R-3350's on Old Shakeys and Super Connies ,a cylinder change on a 985 would be like making spare change for some good cigars. Some of the worst to deal with was lower rear on an R-2800. I liked working on the little Beaver that was used in the Aero Club occasionally. The 115/145 fuel was great for the Zippo lighters😁
It's my understanding, the massive Cyclone R3350s were a true nightmare to work on. First used on B-29s that had severe cooling issues, the problem was never really solved.
Then when they decided to use the same engine on DC-7s, the nightmare continued. Apparently L1049 Constellations ran a little better?
I had a friend of mine that cursed DC-7s based in Alaska.
@@DougHanchard Worked on af RC-121E and found no more problem working on them even after they installed cooling baffles on the cylinders. ADDITION of bendix. direct fuel injection took care of a lot of troubles.
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@Gordon Kaison Instablaster =)
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Seems to take quite some time so I will reply here later with my results.
I like how you take the time to reply in depth to so many comments. I know nothing about aircraft in general but it's still interesting. Keep up the good work.
Don't forget the safety wire on the intake! Thanks for posting this, what a wonderful engine... I did enjoy Kermit's trip to Covington, what a shop.
Very nice informational video on changing cylinder barrels. Cylinder separation is a fairly common problem on these Pratt & Whitney engines. Had two fail on a C-47 Dakota, which is powered by the R-1830 Twin Wasp. Also changed out jugs on several R-985 Wasp Jr.'s on a Beech 18 and a Stearman PT-17's.
Nice repair!
Have a nice flight!
Thank you for your passion to your airplane!
Sorry you left screw tube, very good videos, radials are so iconic and the sound is unmistakable.
I blew a jug on a 985 on a Weatherly cropduster with a load. I landed, we pulled , and reinstalled the jug, and I was back in the air in 4 hours
I had a D-18 for several years. good for you.
Good find. Lucky it didn't off and blow the cowl panel off. Seen that on cold and rainy night. Wakes you up quick.
this is the first time in over 30 years I've seen someone remove a 985 cylinder without first removing the push rods and tubes glad he's not working on my engine and not even on top dead center
fun thing about all of you old guys. you are all retiring and fewer and fewer people know how to work on these old engines. I figured out what the handy tool was in my box and won’t do it again :-). My next goal is to figure out that damn valve spring tool. still can’t use that thing.
Yeah, I watched another video where they did that and at the time I didn't realize what one of the tools I had was for. There aren't many people left that know how to do all of this stuff which is why I'm trying to learn as much as I can.
He did fine. Give him a break
Just because he didn't do it your way doesn't mean it's wrong
There's more than one way to skin a cat
Yep no kidding. Here, hold my beer while I take this off. I'm a diesel mechanic and thought oh ok just wipe off the pushrod and put it back in. Perhaps he should have had a second pair of hands helping.
@@CHEVYK10 There's more than one way to ruin parts also.
Great engine, thanks for sharing,.
Working on a B 18 like working on a MG in some way s... have to like to tinker...took a wrench to my E18 everyday to keep up with leaks...she was a freighter n fun to fly in summer time... fond memories .but my fav was the R 2000 7m2.
More fun than working on my F150
Its too bad you popped a jug but have to say Kudos to whoever is doing the maintenance on your 18 as that is very nicely kept up!
I flew the Beech 18 for 3,000 hours back in the 1970s and saw this kind of cylinder failure. I also two occasions where the cylinder hold down studs all broke off which resulted in an engine fire.
I always pulled a prop through backwards on the R 2000-7 m 2 6-8 blades on first start of the day and let it lop at the lowest RPM until rpm rised on its own...ran for 15-20 min. Then she's ready to go...avoid back driving on decent.
Only had a cracked cylinder (1) once.preplaced same and ready to go in 8 hrs!
The trick is not to let others fly your plane!!!! My two engines always went to TBO and in great shape.love to wrench on any radial engine......
The problem of pulling the prop backwards is you push the oil back into the intake pipe instead of overboard out the exhaust.
Are there jugs that go bad in the same position or is it more random.
I always thought that these radials had some type of dry sump for the oil. Apparently not the pistons become the oil pan.
do you happen to know the part number of the flange bolt tool? I need one and left book at hanger, thanks.
Imagine working on a big radial on a cold rainy airfield in England.
Been there and done that multiple times.
Could not recall exact number of engines in the engine shop at RAF Mildenhall at all given times but a one day count was 40- R-4360s
4 - R-1820s
4 - R-1830s
which were there for maintaince, teardown, or buildup, out of the shipping container from the manufacturer. Also a mobile test and run up tractor and trailer for R-4360s with a crane and mount for them.
There was also a full prop shop for support.
Putting up with GA aircraft owners was the worse part of being a licensed A/P mechanic. I finally went into factory upgrade work and prototype production. I was lead mechanic on the Ted Smith Aerostar twin engine executive aircraft N-320 TS back in the early sixties. At the time it was the fastest GA twin engine aircraft available.
Started in General Aviation. I quickly moved to corporate aviation. Takes awhile to get experience but it paid off. 43 years of corporate Jet maintenance. Retired now and don't want anything to do with airplanes.
white zebra Under the right conditions its cruise speed was in excess of 300 mph. It was not for the novice twin engine pilot, however. It is a hot rod in the sky. Other manufacturers produce such planes today. I believe it was a Piper single engine speedster that killed JFK junior his girl friend and her sister on the east coast. It isn't just the speed in flight but the planes of this type are set up differently and require a good number of hours flight time with a pilot skilled in the ways of these performance GA aircraft. They are less forgiving of clumsiness, so knowing what to expect next and being prepared is the game you must play when you strap in for your first solo flight. Except for ex military fighter pilots the average high time twin engine pilot still needs at least ten hours of instruction in the Aerostar before taking off, even then the plane demands your constant attention and intense focus. It is not a walk in the park. There are a number of holes in the ground filled with Aerostar parts.
white zebra I installed the fuel bladder in the prototype Aerostar. It was located at the rear most bulk head of the cabin. There were transfer pumps everywhere. It is one of the systems that is a 'must master' as fuel location at any given time is a big part of weight and balance .
Wouldn't it be nice to be successful and have no customers to deal with? The fact is dealing with most mechanics is why most aviators get out of flying. None of us are as perfect as you.
@@timmayer8723 Actually this isn't true at all. In fact, it is so exaggerated as to be spoken by someone that probably hasn't ever flown one. Aerostars at altitude cruise around 220 to 230 knots. The only way one of them would ever see 300 would be with a nice tail wind.
I Made a Post On a Later Video By Glenn,,, Stating The "Big Glenn" Should Hire An Old Retired "D-18" Mechanic,,,, Maybe That Old Retired Mechanic,,, Should Hire Big Glenn... He's a Very Talented Man... This Is a Great and Very Entertaining Video Series For An Old D-18 Driver,,, Great Airplane,,, But It Also Has Some Very "Sharp Teeth",,,,
Is the jug and head one piece?
Basically when I hear a man that’s much wealthier than myself say “hokey cow it’s expensive” that tells me to never ever think about Beech18 ownership lol
The R-985 is a 60-90 year old engine and the cylinder heads can only be overhauled so many times before they fall out of allowable tolerance to be used. They're so intricate that the only way to salvage jugs that don't have significant issues (like cracks) is to use an expensive spray metal process to rebuild the inner diameter and re-bore it to spec. In smaller P&W engines like this, the jugs are cast aluminum, but in the larger engines like the R-2800 and 4360, the jugs are drop forged.
The only price I've found for an overhauled cylinder head for this specific engine is $5400. The rest is "call for price", which means that it's even more than that or not available.
@@GGigabiteM surely the cast aluminium is chrome hardened?like BMW nikasil?
@@eugeneoreilly9356 The cylinder bore is a steel or cast iron liner, there's no point to case hardening the aluminum fin assembly.
Like a big Corvair motor, what holds the wrist pin in, it looks like you just tapped in out , no snap ring or anything?
the cylinder walls are all that holds any of them in. some have extra spacers made of a softer material but these don’t have anything.
some engines the oil ring holds them in
Wrist pins were made with curvature on the end and acted like a ball bearing to the piston.They were referred to as FLOATING PINS.
Nice !
Two things I do not understand. How many compression rings are there? I assume there is an oil control ring too. How do you compress these rings when refitting the cylinder barrel? You mention the wrist pin. From what you say it is fully floating. What prevents it from gouging the cylinder walls?
Cheers
I would have to go look but I think there are 3 or 4 and 1 oil ring that sits at very bottom of piston. You compress them with a sleeve that fits around the cylinder and slides off as you push the piston in. The wrist pins usually have soft aluminum to keep them in place that won't hurt the cylinder walls.
To one question in thread:
The master rod is made with piston pin end as common and dual sandwiching plates on the other end so all the other crank pin ends are attached to it.
Removal of master cylinder requires locking the master piston rod in the TDC position or other piston rings will move below the cylinder skirts and then you'll prob be removing 2 or three other cylinders to fix that problem.
There's a tool you can bolt on to a few cyl. holddown studs where the main cases split that will prevent the master rod from deviating from the centerline of its travel. This is accomplished with a dummy piston pin which will slide up and down within a rail the whole length of its travel.
That homemade tool for the cyl. head bolt was cool, but, I try to avoid using 12-point sockets or wrenches if at all possible.
that wasn’t home made. that is a pratt tool
Only place a 12 point wrench/socket should be used is a 12 point bolt or nut. I hate 12 point tools in a six point world.
Guys, you have to learn better tool handling, also , the Wright engine company issued many 12 point sockets for particular jobs.
The P&W cylinder nut wrench and pal nut tool were both 12-point.
Being a jet mech I don't think you can do full scope of work without a set of 12 points in the box!
I'm just a curious George, wondering how these radial engines differ from the inline in my car. Thanks for the video!
Same basic concept but a radial connects the crankshaft to the cylinders via a master rod where everything connects to it and then via a single connection it connects to the cranks shaft. The cylinders all burn and move in the same way though as do the valves. Also radials always come in odd cylinder counts where cars are typically even. This is due mainly to evenly spacing things around the engine versus balancing side to side. Very simple explanation but hopefully helps understand it.
@@nizexlizzy Thanks! I get the basic concept, and am curious as to what the manifolds, oil delivery system, etc. look like. So fascinating! The big counterweight reminds me of a steam locomotive's drive gear. :) Edit: P.S. you have a super cool job.
Very interesting. Let us know how the run up test goes. How bad was the cost of that cylinder?
Robert Hobbs well i was used to being able to overhaul my cylinders for 800 or so but these are 1700 with a 400 or so core if you return yours.
Glenn Hancock wow, that does sting just a bit. Glad you caught it when you did though. This is an awesome plane, BTW.
@@nizexlizzy didn't think that a cracked cylinder was repairable?
this is almost like working on my harley davidson its very similar except i dont have that dogbone just a copper tube
A Harley is 2-7ths of a Jacobs radial.
lol thats so true
If one of the pushrod cover gets damaged you need to get off the cylinder?
EminAviation depends on how bad but you can replace those or just add a second gasket.
Glenn Hancock Ok, thanks, that was interesting.
NO, The push rod covers will come off with the jug on the case!
Been there helping my friend the late “Sky Bill” Warren (“Bill Warren and the Daring Damsels”) on his show ship Sterman R-985 “Big Thunder”.
Wonderful old engine, but get it straight, they aren’t making um anymore and those many odd parts getting to be all but impossible are all but
Impossible to find❗️I’ll swear 🤦🏼♂️❗️
This is true but there are still quite a few planes using them and there are companies dedicated to keeping them going. At the moment you can still get rebuilt engines that are like new for around 45k. So we aren’t out of luck yet. :-)
Are the head and cylinder one piece. On another note, how is that piece that all the con rods are connected to mounted on the crank? Is it a pressed in crank pin?
they are pressed together. the push rods are all connected to a single master rod that connects to the crankshaft. there are videos that show exactly how it all works on youtube.
Okay, thanks. I'll have to check them out. A cousin of mine who is really into photographing planes, had his wedding reception at the ww2 airplane museum in Hamilton Ont., and we were allowed to walk around and look at all the engines and planes on exhibit. There were a lot of cutaways, but I guess I never paid enough attention to the radials. I wish every wedding reception was held there.
@@johnb5519 The mother of all cutaways is in a museum just south of San Francisco. It's in a museum where they have an American SST. It is the name of a helicopter company . The Hiller Aviation Museum. San Carlos. It is a bomber engine with a supercharger built into it. Very impressive. It's been a long while so I forgot the facts!
Cool, I'll have to check it out.
@@nizexlizzy The pushrods are connected to a camshaft. The connecting rods are connected to the master rod plates of the master cylinder and then connected to the crankshaft.
Hi Glenn. Great content on this aircraft. I am really interested in your videos as currently I have 2 Beech 18's that I am embarking on a journey to restore. Whatever advice and help you can give me I would greatly appreciate! Keep up the good work. Cheers brother!
So that cylinder is for trush now? Or it can be repaired? If it's for trush can you give it to me?
EminAviation probably can be fixed even if it takes a new barrel
Just shit can it and get a new old stock steel jug and go back to work!
@@nizexlizzy
Wanted to add that in this case Covington Engines said it could not be fixed. They said it was possible to fix but way to expensive and they'd never do it unless there were no more available cylinders and it was the last resort.
Aero recip in winnipeg manitoba canada has developed trouble free tbo cylinder o/h rebuild, that fixes the common head/barrel separation issue.
Ive toured their shop and procedure is really extensive
Theyre a full outfitted shop
Look them up!
Great vid!
I'm surprised you dropped the pushed cover and didn't protect the piston when you yanked the jug.
Is that pushrod trash after the fall to concrete?
No
Those Junior Wasp radials are showing their age, think the last ones were built in 1955 or so. I have two on my 1938 Grumman Goose and have had to have that repair done three times on the port engine, so far the starboard engine is not showing any signs of separation. I'm not sure your Beech 18 has a manifold pressure gauge, that is how I caught mine.
why would it not have a manifold pressure guage?
I’m trying to understand how such a minor oil leak, on a radial, was noticed😂
totally understand but mine is pretty tight and had burnt oil on the carb heat baffling. but point taken. ;-)
@@nizexlizzy I loved those oil dripping , fire in the pipe, propeller spinning recips.
They have a great history and are loved by many a biplane owner using them today.
Inspection by a competent inspector.
That type of failure in that specific area is not un common on R985 radial engine. There are a half dozen of them sitting around the shop, running 3 Beavers. It takes a good wrench no more than 4 hours to change the cylinder out, in the field, by himself.
size of that piston :O
The pushrod hitting the floor... Junked?
the tips on the pushrod look adjustable & swappable, probably check it by rolling on a narrow piece of glass for bend, make sure
the oiling holes are unharmed & you're good.
These radials were built with repairability in mind. They can continue to run losing any cylinder but the #1 cylinder, which is the 'master
rod' that all the other cylinders' 'link rods' attach to.
The #1 Cylinder/Master Rod is at 12 o'clock position. fyi.
No, it was fine but not something you want to make a habit of. Now that I know what a certain tool is in my box I can easily remove those before removing the cylinder. :-)
I would ask that you turn off the music and other sources of noise or get a wireless microphone on your body.
The Australians would call those stains “Schmutz”.
A R-985 with est.500hrs of operation, at this point of the life of the engine, why wouldn't you just remove the engine and have it completely overhauled? Yeah, I know it's expensive, but so close to run out. You had leaking seals. Sounds like a perfect time to go through it completely.
?? Close to runout? The engines TBO is 1600 or more hours. Also the gaskets leak and need to be replaced after a period of time. You have to remember these engines may have 1600 TBO but they could go 20 years between that time. So while the tubes and rubber would last 1600 they don't last 20 years sometimes being outside.
@@nizexlizzy Thanks Glenn.
7:58 Deez Nuts XD
lol
Looks like you got lucky. If that piston would have been down a little further you would have dropped the scraper ring behind the case and had to pull an adjacent cylinder to lift the ring in order to turn the crank. TDC on compression before pulling and then your ready to reinstall a replacement cylinder.
If I had to guess I'd say that 985 is on a D18 it looks like a very nice aircraft from what little of it I can see so does the powerplant. What doesn't look nice is all your wiring. How it's routed how it's secured it's all the same color it looks very haphazard and we'll...... Sloppy. Your just begging for trouble and a fire. I would really hope you'd consider correcting this condition and if #1 is like that I'd bet anything that #2 is the same way maybe worse¿?
Five minutes in and we're still talking.
Yep, since I was explaining what I was doing it would be difficult to not talk.
badger305, perhaps you should buy a manual.
300 inch pounds = 25 foot pounds
det är inte seriöst att stoppa tillbaks en stötstång full med skit
V
Hires csilag motor ha mar nem lesz uszemanyag akor is tortenelembe marad a nagy teknikaja miat
4:17 Zip ties in a recip (or any engine) power section? Really???
Commenting on something that everyone in 2020 use. Really? I don’t think I’ve seen an engine in the last 5 years that didn’t have wire ties holding something. And if you see me putting it in it is because I”m replacing what was there originally. :-)
@@nizexlizzy In the transport category aircraft wiring practices manuals I'm familiar with, nylon or other similar zip ties are simply not allowed due to the heat, fuels, oils, hydraulic fluids. I've removed many that just snapped from being embrittled. I don't know about smaller aircraft, but Boeing and (the former) McDonnell Douglas allow ONLY the old style clove hitch and knot tying for anyplace in the engine area. The material for tying is teflon-coated and very durable.
Paul Crumley All I can tell you is I didn’t put those in there and they are all over everything I’ve seen. I don’t disagree that over time they can get brittle but I’ve never seen one melt and they are usually used on wires. The one you see in the video has been there forever and it was placed by another mechanic at some point. They are all over the place.
@@nizexlizzy I don't doubt you've seen hundreds; so have I. But several hundred improprieties don't justify another one. Strictly speaking, per FAA 43.13-1, 11-158:
LACING AND TIES. Ties, lacing, and straps are used to secure wire groups or bundles to provide ease of maintenance, inspection, and installation. Braided lacing tape per MIL-T-43435 is suitable for lacing and
tying wires. In lieu of applying ties, straps
meeting Specification MS17821 or MS17822 (STRAP, CABLE, ADJUSTABLE, SELF-CLINCHING, PLASTIC, TYPE I, CLASS 1) may be used in areas where the temperature does not exceed 120 C. Straps may not be used in areas of SWAMP such as wheel wells, near wing flaps or wing folds. They may not be used in high vibration areas, where failure of the strap would permit wiring to move against parts which could damage the insulation and foul mechanical linkages or other moving mechanical parts.
I've spent too many hours in studying causes and effects of human factors in aviation maintenance to accept the notion that "because everyone does it, it's okay." You can look it up - it's one of the so-called "Dirty Dozen."
Paul Crumley Ok, So here is a question (and I am not arguing, just asking). I recently installed an engine monitor on the Lockheed. The wiring out to the engine compartment I tied with string. However, once I got into the engine compartment I could no longer tie anything due to physical constraints. The only thing I could do was get wire ties in as many places as I could in an attempt to keep the wires from moving around and to keep them away from the exhaust and plugs.
So if I were to take this to heart, how on earth would you secure these wires? I’ve seen engine monitors and a lot of engines and they were ALL secured with wire ties. I don’t disagree with what you’re saying but just don’t know how you’d accomplish that practice 100% of the time. Those books were written when there were no engine monitors and few electronic devices compared to today. I’m sure our wire ties are probably better made than years before and we all know our government is extremely slow to adapt to changes.
I am not an A&P and I do try to clamp things as much as I can, but sometimes there just isn’t a good way to accomplish it without completely removing the engine. So I keep an eye on everything and replace anything I see as needing it. I also work with a number of A&P’s and IA’s and like I said, I’ve never seen a wire tie fail. Perhaps because they are being removed so often to fix something they’re in front of. :-)
Thanks for the great information and if you have any suggestions on how to never use wire ties I’m all ears. Also, like I said, I didn’t install any of the ones you were looking at anyway. :-)
Trump for 2020
Sorry, but I don't think that aircraft mechanic is 100% qualified to make this repair. Dropping that pushrod was a major sin. He should have known that a loose pushrod would just slide out.
You know what is funny. I’ve been in aviation since I was 10 years old and watched mechanic after mechanic drop shit. But you guys sitting in your chairs are so damn perfect you’ve never done a single thing wrong. It is amazing I’ve never witnessed such greatness. What airport did you service with such awesome care and abilities? I realize I did make a mistake and I won’t do it again but I also realize you’ve probably done 100 things dumber in your life. So suck it up and watch something else. BTW: There are other videos on youtube with people way smarter than me doing the same thing. They just didn’t drop theirs :-)
I couldn't tell you how many pushrods I dropped, let alone pistons and I never had a repair I performed come back after a good runup.
If he dropped one into the engine doing that it would be a hard lesson learned.
This is a normal problem with a Chrome Cylinder. during the chrome process the acid soaks into the area between the head and barrel. In time it will blow the head off! This is Normal with Chrome jugs! A normal cylinder change is only about 3 to 6 hours if the parts are on hand! No big deal. You make it sound like this is brain surgery! It is NOT it is normal maintenance on a round engine! Shit I'm glad I'm old and don't have to put up with owners like you!
lol, I guess I'm glad you're old too. Not sure how I made it seem like such a big deal though as I've changed a lot of jugs. As for the leak it is rather rare to get a leak like that as I'm the only one out of 10 Beech 18's around me that have ever seen anything like it. But the process of changing the jug wasn't a big deal at all. Hope you don't stress yourself out over such petty stuff and sorry the video offended you.
Oh, and glad you're not my mechanic :-)
Why is it that some not all old AM or any. Old EM come to that think that it's Ok to run a person who is trying to do their best to pass on some info // knowledge on to maybe the less knowledgeable among us , so that we will learn how to spot / look after / and by doing so maybe prevent a accident or a expensive repair bill , even though I am not a aircraft owner or AM I have found videos like this very informative and enjoyable to watch , so may I respectfully suggest that you go back to sleep and dream of yourself when you were at the top of your trade and keeping all that knowledge to yourself , night night
@@nizexlizzy He felt the need. The need for a rantfest.
I've encountered cylinder heads blown off cylinders and stuck in the cowling.
how can anyone be so Boring?