Last year in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, a Republic P-47 Thunderbolt, owned by the Brazilian Air Force Museum, underwent a massive restoration work. A crowdfunding on the internet was started to help raise resources. The money they were expecting to raise in two months of campaign was raised in one single week, thanks to the passion of the donors. The plane was fully restored, looking new. A military ceremony was made to celebrate the feat... weeks later unqualified personal tried to start the engine only to destroy it as described in this video.
Thank you, everyone, for watching! I wanted to do something to take people's minds off of what is happening. Plus any day playing with LEGO at work is a good day!!
When I started A&P school we had an instructor who failed to remove the oil from the lower cylinders on a radial we were going to run up in the test cell. That engine was destroyed when he tried to start it. Such a shame.
I never understood why radial engine manufacturers didn't include an air/liquid release valve in the head(s) of these engines ? Too little room, perhaps ?
@@rickey5353 it's more that having the engine sitting for long periods of time wasn't the norm back then for these engines. They were built for military and airline service where they'd be sitting for the night at most. As such, hydraulic lock wasn't as big of a risk. When a plane sat for a while, there was a procedure to pull the plugs prior to trying to start it for the first time as a precaution. On smaller radials that were used in more GA/low frequency applications (like the Jacobs that is going in the Fokker), they did sometimes put valves in the lower cylinders from the factory to allow draining. Additionally, for modern operators, there are some engines (like the R-985 and R-1340) which have kits available to add a drain valve to the lower cylinder including a tube to then connect to a jug to contain the oil. Here's one of them - www.aircorpsdepot.com/aircraft-parts/radial-oil-clean-kit-for-pratt-whitney-r-985-and-r-1340-engines/
My father was a mechanic on B29s, there was a question if the engine damage was due to dry top cylinders or flooded bottom cylinders. He said it didn't matter to him because if the engine wasn't turned through before starting he would be up all night changing an engine.
Mikey you did a great job explaining this. That LEGO set gave an amazing visual to see the hydro lock in action! The most interesting thing for me was that you can actually bend the connecting rod by pulling on the prop. Wow!!
Madness, indeed. Like shutting down the Houston Livestock Show & Rodeo which annually has 2 MILLION visitors because ONE man MIGHT have been there last Saturday and is now quarantined 4 days later for MAYBE having the coronavirus?!?
I'm no engineer, only an enthusiast of old aircraft who finds radial engines fascinating -- and this video gives a clear explanation of one of its characteristics. First rate -- and I will seek out others you've posted.
You guys did an excellent job illustrating the problem and why. I had a busted rod as a reminder in my tool box for years reminding me oil don't compress...lol
Excellent use of Lego, so simple but effective in showing what can happen when an engine lock occurs. And get chuck to do a bit to camera about the Allison engine too. Really good clip this....
My dad enlisted in the army air Corp in December of 45 and got out in 54. I remember him telling me how they would pull radials through by hand on p 47.s and others. He crew cheifed them on Okinawa. Great video. Thanks.
Yes Please have Church talk about the Allison engine! Mikey, great video!!!!!!!!! Rod is great at explaining everything. As a trained aircraft mechanic it was refreshing to hear and see your simple explanation.
Thank You Mr. McB... few channels take the time to thoroughly explain things. You and your brother did a great job! Hopefully this will stick in our minds and next time a radial doesn't crank right.... an engine may be saved.
Good video! As a B-25 crew member we always pull the large propellers before startup. It is a crew effort and a valid tradition who saved our radials at least one time!
Absolutely! Chuck NEEDS to talk about the Allison engine! 👍 Great vid about the radial engine oil folly. I think the LEGO model and the plug-bottle-coffee demos were excellent teaching aids - high props (ooooh, PUN!) to you both for this massively entertaining lesson! Looking forward to Chuck and the Allison! 😁
I had That Allison 501-D13 model as a kid! Lost it in a terrible garage fire. Some how the prop (which is adjustable) survived and is stored somewhere in my basement! That was a VERY awesome model and teaching tool! If I could only have one complete today! $$$
I love these informational segments. The mechanics of radials are fascinating. Oh yes, have Chuck talk about the Allison engine! This is definitely the best UA-cam channel. Thank you for sharing these.
A very good explanation about hydrolic lock on a radial. I had many cases getting that condition. Many would say turn it backwards and dump the oil back into the intake or exhaust and clear it, problem is when the cylinder comes back around it will gulp the oil you just cleared and lockup again. if the engine starts before it cleared it will bend the rod.
Well, not really. Even on the 4360 and other multi row engines, two rotations of the engine crankshaft (not the prop shaft which is gear reduced) exercises all the pistons in their cylinders. That's the beauty of the 4360, half of the cylinders make power on every rotation of the crankshaft, because it only takes two rotations to complete all 4 stroke cycles (suck,squeeze, bang, blow).
We had a cut-a-way on a stand at our A&P school in Reedley College Ca. and a room full of surplus parts. The school collected surplus from military sales and sold cylinders to the locals who were still operating radials. (attended school 1974-76)
@@tomclark6271 Started many C 124's and C 97's at Rhein Main AFB, 9 blades, mags on, 12 blades primer on , 15 blades start, didn't have any fires or hydralic locks in 3 years, MP
When you start a radial after draining it, you're not making a mess, you're providing mosquito and bug protection to whatever is behind it. I love when my car is behind a radial that's being woken up after a slumber!
I flew a couple of times behind a rare Pobjoy 'R' radial, we pulled all the lower plugs and the oil gushed out of the lower cylinders. Ah, the joy of a 1930's engine, loved it. Get Chucky on the blocks, got to hear is one - cheers.
Yes Please I would like Chuck talk all about the Allison engine. Rod and your talk about the radial engine was very informative especially about the old starter (with no clutch) and the new (newer) starters with clutch.
Many eons ago I owned a Ryan STA with a four cylinder inverted (cylinders hung below the crank) Menasco engine. It had small brass petcocks on each cylinder that you could open to release any oil before cranking it. The engine would actually start with the valves open and the guy cranking it could reach under the cowl and close the valves with the engine running.
In my racecar.... I forgot to turn the bottle on before doing a pass and hydraulically ejected number 5 piston and lifted the head. Expensive and embarrassing not to mention hitting the wall skating around on my own oil and water.
What was the car and damage? Is it because it overfueled anticipating the nitrous to help it fire the fuel?! I'm. Not familiar with nitrous cars too much
We had the same issue with the inline inverted DH Gipsy Queen engines on the Heron aircraft, because every cylinder is 'upside down'. Standard procedure was to pull through each compression by hand before the first start of the day - if there was resistance felt, remove a plug from the relevant cylinder and allow the oil to drain out. However, oil in the cylinder was a good indicator that there might be a damaged or worn piston ring.
I wish i could work for you guys. Im a few months from finishing A&P school. Though i want to deal with modern engines, radials have an alluring charm that i just cant shed off.
First thing they do on “Connie” ...is drain the the oil from the bottom cylinders...hehe....there’s buckets under each engine.....and a 45 gallon drum of oil in the galley .
That was so awesome you were able to LEGO the engine! That was a way better demonstration of the exotic insides of a radial engine than what we got in A&P school ... maybe you could publish the plans so the profs could build their own demo kits (or assign as make-up time for students who missed a class).
Great video and info on round engines!!!!!! Bottom oil issues have always been around since day one. And explaining why you count blades before mags on was just a great lession in round engines 101.....😉
I joined the air force a bit late, they had just retired the Tracker and Dak. I used to watch one of the Trackers starting in Comox, always a good smoke show. This is good lernin'...
We pulled the prop through on the seats and the beaver at the NC Forest service. Never had a problem and it was a procedure that we did since the forties.
Mikey you're a genius! Clearest explanation I've ever seen for the hydraulic lock. And a radial engine out of legos!! Cool stuff. I had no clue that you can bend a rod by hand, but the biggest prop I have pulled through is an 85hp opposed 4 cylinder.
I remember we bought one of these engines R18-92 for $25,000 in 1991. Of course it was a rebuild, but man they have gone up and price which makes sense since there are less of them. Jim
I recall reading somewhere that the two remaining Howard 500's had electric compression releases on the bottom rows (P&W R2600) that drained any fluid back into the crank case before start up. Simple solution to a known problem. The radial is such a great engine otherwise. I would love to see a couple of engine designers/engineers have a modern take on the engine.
R-2600 was a Wright engine, actually. And any valves such as you describe is very unlikely--it would have to be located in the hemispherical combustion chamber, where there is really no room for a port large enough to pass high-viscosity oil, particularly when cold. Also, the port would have to be on one side of the combustion chamber for cylinders to the left of centerline, and the other side for those on the right. I learned radial engines in school in 1964 and worked on them until 1969 (R-1830 and R-2800), and I never heard of any such arrangement.
Very interesting video. The term I am familiar with is "Hydrolocked" where a reciprocating internal combustion engine is stopped/damaged by liquid getting in the combustion chamber, and the motor being turned over fast, and maybe even starting to run when oil or fuel or coolant or even water that came in thru the air intake, can stop the piston from moving. In two stroke motors, this can cause the connecting rod or cylinder or head or piston to be damaged. It is common for the crankcase to have a screwout plug for each cylinder of the engine to release liquid before it gets pushed up into the combustion chamber.
My first Licence was on a Convair 340/440 aircraft they had P/W R2800 radial engines 18 cyl 2 rows, that the company I was working on had. Always when an aircraft had been standing for overnight, first thing we did was turn engine backward by prop, that made engine draining oil from cylinders to exhaust and we never needed to remove spark plug and never had hyd lock on this engines.
I would listen to ANYTHING Chuckie wanted to talk about. Arnie and Chuckie were my favorite from Ice Pilots NWT. And I LOVED their damn buster special. HAVE CHUCKIE ON PLANE SAVERS MORE!!!! PLEASE!!!
This happened yesterday at CAF CenTex on thier B-25 Yellow Rose prior to an engine run. Oil was drained from the flooded cylinder and engine run continued with no further issues.
Very interesting. Never had much experience with radials. We had a 1340 attached to the front of a Harvard at tech school and it DID have an inertia starter. You had to pull blades and if you didn’t use the electric energizer you also had to get a poor guy hand crank it. You didn’t want to blow your start others the guy cranking would have to crank again. Lots of experience with the Allison 501D-13 and D-22 though. Amazing engine. Super simple with only one lever operation. Very early electronic engine control as well. Seeing that model brought back a memory. We had one at SAIT in a display cabinet. Same cabinet as the Sludge Pump Award; ask any SAIT alumnus you run into about that one.
Once again a great video. You 2 are great. I thought I knew this subject fairly well, but I didn't know about the newer clutched starters. I also didn't know a human could bend a rod walking the prop. Great stuff. Definitely do the Allison, that engine has fascinated me for years.
I too was thinking about all the WWI & II clips of ground crews doing the walk throughs, ( "Did they pull a spark first?) or some way to force open the exhaust valves of lower cylinder heads? Each cylinder was the equivalent of a 2.5 Liter engine times 18 .... plus 2 speed super/turbo's.... Amazing!
Thanks Mikey. I really enjoyed that. Especially liked the radial enhancing the audio. Nice to hear from Rod on this subject. Please do a vlog with Chuck and the Allison. Always look forward to the next one!
Spent four years working on C-97 Air Force cargo planes as a line mechanic. Powered by four P&W R 4360 radial engines. I'm surè you know this was the largest production radial ever built. Massive horse power and massive torque. It was truly a master piece of perfectly timed moving parts. Our squadron flew from California to Viet Nam, during the war, nine times a week with a stop in Hawaii and one in Japan and on to Viet Nam, before doing a turn around and flying back the same route. 90%of the flight was over the Pacific Ocean, a distance of around 5000 air miles one way. It took ten hours to get to Hawaii and another seven to get to various American air bases in Viet Nam. The plane was loaded going both ways with equipment, ammunition or troops who had finished their time in the war zone. The engines were very reliable crossing the Pacific without a misfire. The main problems with the engines was the amount of maintenance and the number of troops necessary to keep the 4360 purring along. Every time the plane sat we needed to walk the props through seven times before starting. This procedure took three or four guys about ten minutes each engine as it was a lot of work to crank them by hand while fighting the compression strokes from the 28 cylinders. The scavenger pumps helped but as an engine got older the oil drain into the lower cylinders increased. There was no getting around the prop walk. We had about a dozen of these monsters to care for. They leaked massive amounts of oil onto the tarmac and continued leaking while in flight. When overhauled with very low hours they leaked less but never really cleaned up their act. Under full take off power with max. load and producing around 3500 HP each they were bellowing monsters that vibrated the entire aircraft. If you were on board the vibration could be felt in your chest. It was an experience of a life time.
Thanks for the info..The same thing happens when people store their lawnmowers in their shed/garage with the cylinder/spark plug facing the ground for a long time.. You will find out when you pull the rope and it rips out of your hand when the piston comes to a dead stop..Probably no harm done to the con rod .A electric start could be worse.. Simple fix is to take the spark plug out and pull the rope and let the oil drain out of the cylinder into a pan.Yes it will smoke for a bit and it will burn off and clear up.
Mikey, Someone put an Allison on a Cessna 185 amphib and it's for sale on Canadian Plane Trade. Someone just ain't happy with the status quo. I like that. 😁
Very interesting....I recall in an Ice Pilot episode you showed an engine being started with the bottom 7 cylinder's front plugs removed...I think you called it" burning the engine" to remove the oil. We need Chuck to give us the low down on the Allison engine. Thanks for posting Mikey.
Oh God!! Thank you for not actually destroying a running radial engine like how other idiots do here on UA-cam !! I have several questions then: 1. burping an engine is pulling the lower half plugs and turning it over by hand? 2. after 7 days one usually burps an engine automatically? 3. If you know an engine hydrauliced (sp?) but turns over smoothly by hand, then what do you do? 4. If you catch the hydraulic before the engine starts, or you know it hydrauliced and then is run, is the engine ruined or can be repaired? Pulling 6 or 8 plugs is a big procedure even on two engines. Now I understand one of the operation costs of a large radial. Can the pilot or owner do this procedure or does it require a certified mechanic?
Yes, I fully understand the problem here. Which is easily solved if you remember to do it. I was unfamiliar with the "pull through five blades" drill until a friend (who owned a Yak-52 at the time- a bitcoin'n plane!) offered me a ride in the plane. He opened the hangar for and pulled the plane out with the mini-tug, fiddled with a few things and then pulled on a blade and rotated it around. I asked him why and he said that oil gathers in the lowest cylinders and fills up the combustion chamber and would cause hydraulic lock on started up and make everything go "higgled-piggledy" if it wasn't removed and that was the reason for pulling blades through. Perfect sense! Keep saving those planes! (There was a DC-3 which had the engines from a DC-4 installed which made it faster and more powerful. Ever thought of making one of those for Buffalo?)
So, Mikie, Chuck, or whomever... Could you explain why all single row, 4 stroke-cycle, radial engines have an odd number (3,5,7,or9) of cylinders? I'm not asking for myself, but for your viewers. I'd also enjoy a comparison between the Alison, Garett, and P&W turboshaft aircraft engines.
Mikey you do some Amazing Quality vids Your Explanations are simple enough to understand and your video Editing is Good with the picture blown up so we can see exactly what you are talking about. Outstanding work to all who were involved! And there were no Radial Engines Damaged or Abused in the making of this Video. Best Wishes! M.H.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Last year in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, a Republic P-47 Thunderbolt, owned by the Brazilian Air Force Museum, underwent a massive restoration work. A crowdfunding on the internet was started to help raise resources. The money they were expecting to raise in two months of campaign was raised in one single week, thanks to the passion of the donors. The plane was fully restored, looking new. A military ceremony was made to celebrate the feat... weeks later unqualified personal tried to start the engine only to destroy it as described in this video.
That's a real shame. Hopefully they can get the bird repaired and in the air again.
That hurts to hear , just not many P47’s around. I hope they repair it.
I had to stop and think about a thumbs up for Octavio's info comment. Thumbs Up for first 4 Sentences.
Yea, god knows R-2800 parts are laying around all over the place so why not let inexperienced people play with them.
@Kathleen Shaw
No need for any grey beards, we learned about that in about the 2nd week of aircraft maintenance school.
Thank you, everyone, for watching! I wanted to do something to take people's minds off of what is happening. Plus any day playing with LEGO at work is a good day!!
Thanks Mikey, Rod and Chuck, I really needed a diversion today. Stay healthy guys!
Great stuff! Another slower way to kill a radial is put in jet fuel. A Martin 4-0-4 fell victim to this in Atlanta back in 1970.
Thanks Mikey, the world is a crazy place. True words.
reverse thrust still there lol
Great video Mikey!
👍 How many people knew about how a radial hydrolocked before watching this 10 minute explanation??? Give a thumbs up 👍
When I started A&P school we had an instructor who failed to remove the oil from the lower cylinders on a radial we were going to run up in the test cell. That engine was destroyed when he tried to start it. Such a shame.
I never understood why radial engine manufacturers didn't include an air/liquid release valve in the head(s) of these engines ? Too little room, perhaps ?
When I was a kid watching old war movies I thought they were winding them up like a clock spring to start them. Dad set me straight.
I knew about this as a kid. My dad was an MOS 747 during WWII working on B-17, B-24, and B-29.
@@rickey5353 it's more that having the engine sitting for long periods of time wasn't the norm back then for these engines. They were built for military and airline service where they'd be sitting for the night at most. As such, hydraulic lock wasn't as big of a risk. When a plane sat for a while, there was a procedure to pull the plugs prior to trying to start it for the first time as a precaution.
On smaller radials that were used in more GA/low frequency applications (like the Jacobs that is going in the Fokker), they did sometimes put valves in the lower cylinders from the factory to allow draining. Additionally, for modern operators, there are some engines (like the R-985 and R-1340) which have kits available to add a drain valve to the lower cylinder including a tube to then connect to a jug to contain the oil.
Here's one of them -
www.aircorpsdepot.com/aircraft-parts/radial-oil-clean-kit-for-pratt-whitney-r-985-and-r-1340-engines/
I would love to hear Chuck talk about the Allison engine. BTW this radial engine discussion was very informative. Great job Rod.
Yes Chuck on Allison engine
Any episode with Chuck would be worth watching ! But yes, I’d love to learn more about the Allison.
Yep, bring it on! Would love to hear chuck break down (not literally) the Allison turbine.
My father was a mechanic on B29s, there was a question if the engine damage was due to dry top cylinders or flooded bottom cylinders. He said it didn't matter to him because if the engine wasn't turned through before starting he would be up all night changing an engine.
Oh heck yes, get Chucky to talk about Allison’s!! A very good explanation of hydraulic lock and very cool LEGO radial!!
Mikey you did a great job explaining this. That LEGO set gave an amazing visual to see the hydro lock in action!
The most interesting thing for me was that you can actually bend the connecting rod by pulling on the prop. Wow!!
Amazing Video Mikey! So proud! Learned a lot!!! Keep it up buddy!
Thanks Cap!!!!!! 👨✈️
Very educational and a good diversion from "the madness of now", thanks! Yes please, more engine talk, bring on Allison!
Madness, indeed. Like shutting down the Houston Livestock Show & Rodeo which annually has 2 MILLION visitors because ONE man MIGHT have been there last Saturday and is now quarantined 4 days later for MAYBE having the coronavirus?!?
@@terryh5060 Such cancellations are a shame, but you really cannot fool around with something that has killed thousands already.
7:15 this is really good info! I didn't know you could bend a rod under your own strength! So move the prop slow but don't force through a stoppage
I'm no engineer, only an enthusiast of old aircraft who finds radial engines fascinating -- and this video gives a clear explanation of one of its characteristics. First rate -- and I will seek out others you've posted.
The rod will fail right about the time you break ground and run out of runway....but only at max gross.
And/or just coasting out!
You guys did an excellent job illustrating the problem and why. I had a busted rod as a reminder in my tool box for years reminding me oil don't compress...lol
This is why i never liked others using MY C7 at union flights!!!
I took care of my R 2000 7M 2s... And they took care of me!!!
Excellent use of Lego, so simple but effective in showing what can happen when an engine lock occurs. And get chuck to do a bit to camera about the Allison engine too. Really good clip this....
My dad enlisted in the army air Corp in December of 45 and got out in 54. I remember him telling me how they would pull radials through by hand on p 47.s and others. He crew cheifed them on Okinawa. Great video. Thanks.
Yes Please have Church talk about the Allison engine! Mikey, great video!!!!!!!!! Rod is great at explaining everything. As a trained aircraft mechanic it was refreshing to hear and see your simple explanation.
Thank You Mr. McB... few channels take the time to thoroughly explain things. You and your brother did a great job! Hopefully this will stick in our minds and next time a radial doesn't crank right.... an engine may be saved.
Hi Mikey,thank you for yet another educational programme.I have watched your ice pilot series many many times on UA-cam.great work.
Very good demo, now let Chuckey explain the turboprop. Thanks
Good video! As a B-25 crew member we always pull the large propellers before startup. It is a crew effort and a valid tradition who saved our radials at least one time!
Absolutely! Chuck NEEDS to talk about the Allison engine! 👍
Great vid about the radial engine oil folly. I think the LEGO model and the plug-bottle-coffee demos were excellent teaching aids - high props (ooooh, PUN!) to you both for this massively entertaining lesson! Looking forward to Chuck and the Allison! 😁
A couple of geniuses right here. For Real. I kinda thought I knew how a radial engine worked ... but no!
Such a brilliant demonstration.
I had That Allison 501-D13 model as a kid! Lost it in a terrible garage fire. Some how the prop (which is adjustable) survived and is stored somewhere in my basement! That was a VERY awesome model and teaching tool! If I could only have one complete today! $$$
I love these informational segments. The mechanics of radials are fascinating. Oh yes, have Chuck talk about the Allison engine! This is definitely the best UA-cam channel. Thank you for sharing these.
Thank you!!!
A very good explanation about hydrolic lock on a radial. I had many cases getting that condition. Many would say turn it backwards and dump the oil back into the intake or exhaust and clear it, problem is when the cylinder comes back around it will gulp the oil you just cleared and lockup again. if the engine starts before it cleared it will bend the rod.
Great explanation all!
Was mechanic on P&W 4360’s and had to turn prop 20 blades then start
Kathleen Shaw KC97’s 19th ARFS 8th Air Force SAC Otis AFB 1961 - 64
Well, not really. Even on the 4360 and other multi row engines, two rotations of the engine crankshaft (not the prop shaft which is gear reduced) exercises all the pistons in their cylinders. That's the beauty of the 4360, half of the cylinders make power on every rotation of the crankshaft, because it only takes two rotations to complete all 4 stroke cycles (suck,squeeze, bang, blow).
Tom Clark you’re right. Just too old to recall details.
We had a cut-a-way on a stand at our A&P school in Reedley College Ca. and a room full of surplus parts. The school collected surplus from military sales and sold cylinders to the locals who were still operating radials. (attended school 1974-76)
@@tomclark6271 Started many C 124's and C 97's at Rhein Main AFB, 9 blades, mags on, 12 blades primer on , 15 blades start, didn't have any fires or hydralic locks in 3 years, MP
Hearing from Chuck talking about Allison engines would be terrific! Love Chuck’s work.
Love to hear Chuck speak about the PT6
When you start a radial after draining it, you're not making a mess, you're providing mosquito and bug protection to whatever is behind it. I love when my car is behind a radial that's being woken up after a slumber!
I flew a couple of times behind a rare Pobjoy 'R' radial, we pulled all the lower plugs and the oil gushed out of the lower cylinders. Ah, the joy of a 1930's engine, loved it. Get Chucky on the blocks, got to hear is one - cheers.
You are absolutely right Mikey... that radial engine video did take my mind off the craziness in the world for a few minutes... thank you!
You answer all the questions in my mind. And yes, lets hear about the Allison!
Yes Please I would like Chuck talk all about the Allison engine. Rod and your talk about the radial engine was very informative especially about the old starter (with no clutch) and the new (newer) starters with clutch.
Many eons ago I owned a Ryan STA with a four cylinder inverted (cylinders hung below the crank) Menasco engine. It had small brass petcocks on each cylinder that you could open to release any oil before cranking it. The engine would actually start with the valves open and the guy cranking it could reach under the cowl and close the valves with the engine running.
In my racecar.... I forgot to turn the bottle on before doing a pass and hydraulically ejected number 5 piston and lifted the head. Expensive and embarrassing not to mention hitting the wall skating around on my own oil and water.
What was the car and damage? Is it because it overfueled anticipating the nitrous to help it fire the fuel?! I'm. Not familiar with nitrous cars too much
How about explaining to most of us who don't are not racers, what the hell you are talking about.
We need more Chuck.
The airline i used to work for used Allison 501-D's on their Convair 580's. Good times. Let's hear from Chuck!
We had the same issue with the inline inverted DH Gipsy Queen engines on the Heron aircraft, because every cylinder is 'upside down'. Standard procedure was to pull through each compression by hand before the first start of the day - if there was resistance felt, remove a plug from the relevant cylinder and allow the oil to drain out. However, oil in the cylinder was a good indicator that there might be a damaged or worn piston ring.
WOW this is great - so many cool props (no pun intended) ... you guys did a great job on explaining a complex condition like hydraulic lock ups
I wish i could work for you guys.
Im a few months from finishing A&P school.
Though i want to deal with modern engines, radials have an alluring charm that i just cant shed off.
Yes brother pull the plugs on any engine that is vapor locked!
I recall learning about this in Aerotech school.
" burping " the cylinders as we called it.
Outstanding video.
First thing they do on “Connie” ...is drain the the oil from the bottom cylinders...hehe....there’s buckets under each engine.....and a 45 gallon drum of oil in the galley .
That was so awesome you were able to LEGO the engine! That was a way better demonstration of the exotic insides of a radial engine than what we got in A&P school ... maybe you could publish the plans so the profs could build their own demo kits (or assign as make-up time for students who missed a class).
Same deal with Granddads Tigermoth
I love how you are keep these old Ladies ALIVE!
Great video and info on round engines!!!!!! Bottom oil issues have always been around since day one. And explaining why you count blades before mags on was just a great lession in round engines 101.....😉
Excellent presentation on the problems of looking after radials.
I joined the air force a bit late, they had just retired the Tracker and Dak. I used to watch one of the Trackers starting in Comox, always a good smoke show. This is good lernin'...
Epic demonstration. Love seeing Rod get more involved.
We pulled the prop through on the seats and the beaver at the NC Forest service. Never had a problem and it was a procedure that we did since the forties.
Well I feel a little smarter today! Thanks Mikey and Rod. Great talk with awesome prop’s! Can5 wait for Chucky’s lesson on the Allison!
Love radials. Very well explained, and YES, I'd love to hear Chuck talk about the Allison turboprops!
Brilliant....thank you....totally explained..
Good one Mike! Always good hearing from Rod.
Mikey you're a genius! Clearest explanation I've ever seen for the hydraulic lock. And a radial engine out of legos!! Cool stuff. I had no clue that you can bend a rod by hand, but the biggest prop I have pulled through is an 85hp opposed 4 cylinder.
I remember we bought one of these engines R18-92 for $25,000 in 1991. Of course it was a rebuild, but man they have gone up and price which makes sense since there are less of them. Jim
Top advice from the top radial operators. This was super informative Mikey. Woukd love to see a video with Mr Chuck please.
You learn something new every day. I heard from someone long ago that you could blow a cylinder or cylinder head.
AWESOME video! I'm no pilot & don't have immediate plans to become one, but I LOVE learning random things like this!
I recall reading somewhere that the two remaining Howard 500's had electric compression releases on the bottom rows (P&W R2600) that drained any fluid back into the crank case before start up. Simple solution to a known problem. The radial is such a great engine otherwise. I would love to see a couple of engine designers/engineers have a modern take on the engine.
R-2600 was a Wright engine, actually. And any valves such as you describe is very unlikely--it would have to be located in the hemispherical combustion chamber, where there is really no room for a port large enough to pass high-viscosity oil, particularly when cold. Also, the port would have to be on one side of the combustion chamber for cylinders to the left of centerline, and the other side for those on the right. I learned radial engines in school in 1964 and worked on them until 1969 (R-1830 and R-2800), and I never heard of any such arrangement.
@@Hopeless_and_Forlorn I meant the R2800... And yes, they have oil return system/pumps for the two Howards. You can read about it on their web site.
Verner and Rotec both make a modern radial. The Verner is direct drive while the Rotec uses a gearbox.
@@Iflyagrasshopper Those two are radials lite. I was thinking more of full size.
Great job on the video. Good topic and it would be neat to hear Chuck on the Allison engines as well.
Very interesting video. The term I am familiar with is "Hydrolocked" where a reciprocating internal combustion engine is stopped/damaged by liquid getting in the combustion chamber, and the motor being turned over fast, and maybe even starting to run when oil or fuel or coolant or even water that came in thru the air intake, can stop the piston from moving. In two stroke motors, this can cause the connecting rod or cylinder or head or piston to be damaged. It is common for the crankcase to have a screwout plug for each cylinder of the engine to release liquid before it gets pushed up into the combustion chamber.
Awesome video. Rod explains things so well. Chuck talking about anything...hell yes! Keep up the great work.
In the mid-eighties, I used to watch them start the DC-3 engines on the ramp in Key West. The oil smoke cloud was tremendous!
Good video I operated R2800 PW for ten years in DC 6 for good old Zantop in YIP.
My first Licence was on a Convair 340/440 aircraft they had P/W R2800 radial engines 18 cyl 2 rows, that the company I was working on had. Always when an aircraft had been standing for overnight, first thing we did was turn engine backward by prop, that made engine draining oil from cylinders to exhaust and we never needed to remove spark plug and never had hyd lock on this engines.
Very informative and organized presentation... if anyone can’t understand, it is because they weren’t watching.
Yes! Please have Chuck explain the T56!
Then...reserve an episode for him to explain the prop controller (valve housing and pump housing)
I second that!
Great explanation with simple training aids. Another awesome video. And Chuck explaining the Allison would be awesome.
Yes we would love to see Chuck go over the Allison!!
I would listen to ANYTHING Chuckie wanted to talk about. Arnie and Chuckie were my favorite from Ice Pilots NWT. And I LOVED their damn buster special. HAVE CHUCKIE ON PLANE SAVERS MORE!!!! PLEASE!!!
This happened yesterday at CAF CenTex on thier B-25 Yellow Rose prior to an engine run. Oil was drained from the flooded cylinder and engine run continued with no further issues.
Good video and explanation. Former P&W Wasp Major mechanic.
Very interesting.
Never had much experience with radials. We had a 1340 attached to the front of a Harvard at tech school and it DID have an inertia starter. You had to pull blades and if you didn’t use the electric energizer you also had to get a poor guy hand crank it. You didn’t want to blow your start others the guy cranking would have to crank again.
Lots of experience with the Allison 501D-13 and D-22 though. Amazing engine. Super simple with only one lever operation. Very early electronic engine control as well.
Seeing that model brought back a memory. We had one at SAIT in a display cabinet. Same cabinet as the Sludge Pump Award; ask any SAIT alumnus you run into about that one.
Once again a great video. You 2 are great. I thought I knew this subject fairly well, but I didn't know about the newer clutched starters. I also didn't know a human could bend a rod walking the prop. Great stuff.
Definitely do the Allison, that engine has fascinated me for years.
I too was thinking about all the WWI & II clips of ground crews doing the walk throughs, ( "Did they pull a spark first?) or some way to force open the exhaust valves of lower cylinder heads? Each cylinder was the equivalent of a 2.5 Liter engine times 18 .... plus 2 speed super/turbo's.... Amazing!
Thanks Mikey. I really enjoyed that. Especially liked the radial enhancing the audio. Nice to hear from Rod on this subject. Please do a vlog with Chuck and the Allison. Always look forward to the next one!
That model is pretty cool! And DUH - of course we want Chuck to talk about the Allison!
Heck, you could hae chuck talk about how the potty in a DC-4/Electra works and I would watch as all things aviation interest me.
Spent four years working on C-97 Air Force cargo planes as a line mechanic. Powered by four P&W R 4360 radial engines. I'm surè you know this was the largest production radial ever built. Massive horse power and massive torque. It was truly a master piece of perfectly timed moving parts. Our squadron flew from California to Viet Nam, during the war, nine times a week with a stop in Hawaii and one in Japan and on to Viet Nam, before doing a turn around and flying back the same route. 90%of the flight was over the Pacific Ocean, a distance of around 5000 air miles one way. It took ten hours to get to Hawaii and another seven to get to various American air bases in Viet Nam. The plane was loaded going both ways with equipment, ammunition or troops who had finished their time in the war zone.
The engines were very reliable crossing the Pacific without a misfire. The main problems with the engines was the amount of maintenance and the number of troops necessary to keep the 4360 purring along. Every time the plane sat we needed to walk the props through seven times before starting. This procedure took three or four guys about ten minutes each engine as it was a lot of work to crank them by hand while fighting the compression strokes from the 28 cylinders. The scavenger pumps helped but as an engine got older the oil drain into the lower cylinders increased. There was no getting around the prop walk. We had about a dozen of these monsters to care for. They leaked massive amounts of oil onto the tarmac and continued leaking while in flight. When overhauled with very low hours they leaked less but never really cleaned up their act. Under full take off power with max. load and producing around 3500 HP each they were bellowing monsters that vibrated the entire aircraft. If you were on board the vibration could be felt in your chest. It was an experience of a life time.
Yes, McDonald's coffee is like 50w.
It tastes about the same too.
Thanks for the info..The same thing happens when people store their lawnmowers in their shed/garage with the cylinder/spark plug facing the ground for a long time.. You will find out when you pull the rope and it rips out of your hand when the piston comes to a dead stop..Probably no harm done to the con rod .A electric start could be worse..
Simple fix is to take the spark plug out and pull the rope and let the oil drain out of the cylinder into a pan.Yes it will smoke for a bit and it will burn off and clear up.
Very nice video. Kermit Weeks had a radial that had oil built up in the intake and got into the cylinder after it started and bent the con rod.
Mikey, Someone put an Allison on a Cessna 185 amphib and it's for sale on Canadian Plane Trade. Someone just ain't happy with the status quo. I like that. 😁
I'll bet it now has an excellent power to weight ratio! :-)
Very interesting....I recall in an Ice Pilot episode you showed an engine being started with the bottom 7 cylinder's front plugs removed...I think you called it" burning the engine" to remove the oil. We need Chuck to give us the low down on the Allison engine. Thanks for posting Mikey.
Thanks for the explanation and all the visual aids!
Modelling Fairchild's PT19 engine systems and this video is golden =) Thanks for posting it!
Definitely have Chuck talk about the Allison engine, he is great, he knows his turbine engines, good job on this video Mike and Rod, great visuals
Oh God!! Thank you for not actually destroying a running radial engine like how other idiots do here on UA-cam !!
I have several questions then: 1. burping an engine is pulling the lower half plugs and turning it over by hand? 2. after 7 days one usually burps an engine automatically? 3. If you know an engine hydrauliced (sp?) but turns over smoothly by hand, then what do you do? 4. If you catch the hydraulic before the engine starts, or you know it hydrauliced and then is run, is the engine ruined or can be repaired?
Pulling 6 or 8 plugs is a big procedure even on two engines. Now I understand one of the operation costs of a large radial. Can the pilot or owner do this procedure or does it require a certified mechanic?
Excellent visual lessons on this Mikey. Thanks for a bit of escape from “reality” and yes please on an Allison lesson from Chuck.
My Father was a Flight Engineer on KC 97 AND C121. Both had Radial Engines. They would walk the Props through before starting.
The quality of the content on this channel goes up with every video. Well done also on the models!
Yes, I fully understand the problem here. Which is easily solved if you remember to do it. I was unfamiliar with the "pull through five blades" drill until a friend (who owned a Yak-52 at the time- a bitcoin'n plane!) offered me a ride in the plane. He opened the hangar for and pulled the plane out with the mini-tug, fiddled with a few things and then pulled on a blade and rotated it around. I asked him why and he said that oil gathers in the lowest cylinders and fills up the combustion chamber and would cause hydraulic lock on started up and make everything go "higgled-piggledy" if it wasn't removed and that was the reason for pulling blades through. Perfect sense! Keep saving those planes! (There was a DC-3 which had the engines from a DC-4 installed which made it faster and more powerful. Ever thought of making one of those for Buffalo?)
So, Mikie, Chuck, or whomever... Could you explain why all single row, 4 stroke-cycle, radial engines have an odd number (3,5,7,or9) of cylinders? I'm not asking for myself, but for your viewers. I'd also enjoy a comparison between the Alison, Garett, and P&W turboshaft aircraft engines.
Mikey you do some Amazing Quality vids
Your Explanations are simple enough to understand and your video Editing is Good with the picture blown up so we can see exactly what you are talking about.
Outstanding work to all who were involved!
And there were no Radial Engines Damaged or Abused in the making of this Video.
Best Wishes! M.H.