For off-road use, it doesn't necessarily need a differential gear. ATV's have used single fixed axles for decades, mostly to save money and weight. For pavement use, yes, a differential would be ideal.
@@StephenFarnsworth That's true, but in this application, there's not much high speed turning on solid/sticky surface. My 4 wheeler that has a solid axle with no differential probably wears tires faster on pavement, but in mud or on soft terrain, it's negligible.
@@elektrycznakapusta3793 Sure, but that would imply the forces are evenly spread across the tracks. There's a paper you can find that evaluates the ground pressure of tracks and find that it's often higher at points than comparable inflatable tires. There's also the issue of torque and angular forces when turning. The longer and wider your treads, the greater the torque that the friction creates. Turning with a track creates all sorts of torques around the pivot. The other issue is that friction on a surface like snow, sand, grass, or loose dirt isn't just a simple linear relationship with pressure, especially considering that the treads probably aren't a flat surface and have some sort of tread pattern. There's all sorts of kinematics that affect friction on top of the uneven ground pressure that tracks create.
No matter wich steering option you choose, you will need a diffrential / different speeds on each track, since the outer wheel of the turn is making a bigger circle. although you might get away with it due to low weight, so one side will likely overspin
I like the 3rd idea too, also, you could install a differential between the 2 tracks. This will limit traction off road, but will reduce wear on the tracks. Perhaps, ideally, a locking-differential could be installed between the 2 tracks, that can be locked/unlocked remotely
I'm really looking forward to part 3... This project was the perfect basis for my remote controlled lawn mower, I've redrawn the components (pretty much the same but 50mm wide track links)... now to figure out how to remote control it :)
1:38 What are these things called? I'm working on a project and using threaded inserts but it isn't exactly what I want. These would be perfect and solve one of my problems
Nice work, well-designed system you have so far. But let me point a weak point to you, as a constructive criticism: the triangular frame of the tracks are not covered by the tracks themselves. That means no matter how high you build the central part of the chassis, the ability to ride on rough or loose surfaces will always be compromised by this design flaw. For the steering system: I think it’s exciting to build a back-steered tractor like a combine harvester, with a backward ackerman-geometry. For the joint traction system: it doesn’t really matter on loose urfaces but far from ideal, especially on hard surfaces. Would be interesting if you built a multi-axle-driven differential for example. And as for the suspension system: it would be also interesting to see some kind of suspension instead of a completely rigid system, like building a semi-trailing axle for the two tracks. Keep up the good work!
Printed this out but having trouble with the gear box. At least 1 screw on each stack of the planetary gears comes undone at some point. Trying to figure out what might solve this. May redesign part of it.
ua-cam.com/video/rOM37xmcWQk/v-deo.html (my build with some rework). Swapped out screws and nuts in planetary gears and scaled them up a bit. They were a bit loose and had vertical/horizontal slip under torque. Finally, redesigned the gearbox cap to add a large bearing to hold the primary gear that connects to the drive shaft gear. After these changes, this beast moved without issue. I did keep the two sides separate for turning, so more of the original design.
I think number 1 steering wise. I think with the packed snow and ice you will need as much traction as you can get so the extra set of tracks won't hurt.
I'm actually in the middle of printing these tracks and already have a gear box finished (well I have the parts just not assembled). I plan on building some kind of tank with my kids. I was probably going to go with independent track speed turning with a third but different track I printed years ago as a rear stabilizing un-powered track. It's still early days with the design and it's slow going as I only have a Ender 5 Plus and a E10 resin printer so I can't produce pieces as fast as I like. Thanks for the files, can't wait to see the next video.
Actively watching this series for a DIY Snowblower. To that point, when Top Gear did their northern excursion, their serious rig had the first design, combined with wheels either in all locations or at least on the front. I think this may be the best way for you to go, because you only have to build a single connection, it gives the tightest turning radius, and your problem of why you were digging in (Called Break-over angle here) Could be solved if you did a front wheel, rear track setup, with an hourglass-shaped coupling section in between them. Could also save on bracing aluminum, which can't be cheap right now, lol. AWESOME!!! Oh yeah, can you please talk about sub 10 deg C actual battery lifetimes for your setup etc?
Though I love your ingenuity, I'm having a feeling you're going to let us down in part 3 with your steering. Tanks only steer 'well' with independent tracks.
As much as the 1st option would be great for a project I have in mind, 3rd option is my favorite. Especially if you gear it so it has 4 wheel drive at the correct front wheel speed. Looks like it should be pretty easy to swap treads out for some snow treads.
For both articulated chassis and the wheels options you need open differential on the tracks otherwise the turning radius would be way to high. On terrains like snow it may even be impossible to steer and turn the vehicle without proper differential mechanism.
ATV's have used a fixed/straight axles non-differential design for decades. I believe the tracks will still allow the vehicle to turn just fine, but I could be wrong. Here's an example of a straight axle (no differential) ATV. ua-cam.com/video/OCNPHcgg0aE/v-deo.html&ab_channel=MudPuppy
@@chadcoady9025 it surely works but the turning radius would not be satisfactory and it may struggle on snow like surfaces. I drove such atvs in the past and their turning radius was almost like full size car.
@@MehmetSutas You're right on the turning radius. The turning radius suffers, but you CAN gain traction with a locked differential....though that's getting off topic from this design of a separate motor for each axle. It's still really REALLY cool seeing this kind of build from scratch, trial and error building using 3D prints. I love it! I've printed several part for my RV-8 airplane (experimental). Obviously nothing having to do with the air frame, but things like mirror holders, custom hooks, bottle holders, switch covers, trays, etc. The great thing about positive comment sections is that the builder can use our input to see what works best for his design. :)
I think the tractors still have differential power to the tracks. If you want to steer using a wheel setup with fixed tracks you need to make more steering force than the lateral force of the tracks which is unlikely.
Here's a thought, how about a re-design of the track parts to allow tot he motor to sit inside of each track? essentially making them slightly taller and wider so your motor+gear module can fit in it then make the drive gear on the outside, this would also get rid of the 90 degree gear translation your doing currently as well as remove the need for such long axels that stick out of the tracks.
You'll need a differential of some sorts. I support many of the comments here - you'll need some slip if you plan to drive it on any surface with significant traction.
All those saying you need to have a diff or something While it would definitely help I wouldn’t say it’s needed unless you have 100% grip it will slide around
I'm thinking steering at the back would be better. as you accelerate the back is pushed down thus pushing the steering down and giving greater control. Despite that I think not having a solid axel would be better, you will probably need some speed difference between the track despite having separate steering otherwise you are putting higher torque and sideways forces on the tracks. best case early wear but worse case could be dangerous. I'm no expert an any of this but i am looking forward to seeing it finished
Everyone knows tank steering would be better :) For wheeled steering to work you will need weight over the axle. My intuition says rear wheel steering will be less effective than front and is also harder to operate.
This is a really cool project but unfortunately the track geometry is going to lead to issues if it is driven on pretty much anything other than snow. Having the drive sprocket exposed to the outside of the sprocket will lead to junk from outside the tracks getting tangled in the drive sprocket and damaging components. This is the reason that most modern tracked vehicles have the sprocket and sprocket teeth on the inside of the track such that it is protected from debris by the track itself. This could be pretty easily fixed in this design by installing track pads which extend over the links in the track which will also improve traction. There is also couplings that allow the shafts in either side to spin freely which would allow for steering with two motors. Modern vehicles use a system known as a triple differential and brake pads on either side to steer which is more efficient, reduces stress on the tracks, and reduces wear during turning but that is likely beyond the scope of a 3D printed tractor
Why not drive each side directly from your planetary gearmotor, instead of using bevel gears? Why are the left and right shafts connected together? This track type is not practical in snow as you can see for yourself. The best I've seen is the snowcat project from rctestflight. I'm sure you know it.
no matter your steering type, the 2 tracks ideally need to move at different speeds. Just like a car the outside wheel travels further and faster!
For off-road use, it doesn't necessarily need a differential gear. ATV's have used single fixed axles for decades, mostly to save money and weight. For pavement use, yes, a differential would be ideal.
@@chadcoady9025 with so much surface area, it's going to produce a lot of friction without a differential
@@StephenFarnsworth That's true, but in this application, there's not much high speed turning on solid/sticky surface. My 4 wheeler that has a solid axle with no differential probably wears tires faster on pavement, but in mud or on soft terrain, it's negligible.
@@StephenFarnsworth friction does not depend on surface area rather, the contact force and the coefficient of friction.
@@elektrycznakapusta3793 Sure, but that would imply the forces are evenly spread across the tracks. There's a paper you can find that evaluates the ground pressure of tracks and find that it's often higher at points than comparable inflatable tires. There's also the issue of torque and angular forces when turning. The longer and wider your treads, the greater the torque that the friction creates. Turning with a track creates all sorts of torques around the pivot. The other issue is that friction on a surface like snow, sand, grass, or loose dirt isn't just a simple linear relationship with pressure, especially considering that the treads probably aren't a flat surface and have some sort of tread pattern. There's all sorts of kinematics that affect friction on top of the uneven ground pressure that tracks create.
No matter wich steering option you choose, you will need a diffrential / different speeds on each track, since the outer wheel of the turn is making a bigger circle. although you might get away with it due to low weight, so one side will likely overspin
When the wheels or tracks aren't driven by one shaft, you don't really need a differential
Nice project !
I like the 3rd idea too, also, you could install a differential between the 2 tracks. This will limit traction off road, but will reduce wear on the tracks. Perhaps, ideally, a locking-differential could be installed between the 2 tracks, that can be locked/unlocked remotely
I'm really looking forward to part 3... This project was the perfect basis for my remote controlled lawn mower, I've redrawn the components (pretty much the same but 50mm wide track links)... now to figure out how to remote control it :)
1:38 What are these things called? I'm working on a project and using threaded inserts but it isn't exactly what I want. These would be perfect and solve one of my problems
Nice work, well-designed system you have so far. But let me point a weak point to you, as a constructive criticism: the triangular frame of the tracks are not covered by the tracks themselves. That means no matter how high you build the central part of the chassis, the ability to ride on rough or loose surfaces will always be compromised by this design flaw.
For the steering system: I think it’s exciting to build a back-steered tractor like a combine harvester, with a backward ackerman-geometry.
For the joint traction system: it doesn’t really matter on loose urfaces but far from ideal, especially on hard surfaces. Would be interesting if you built a multi-axle-driven differential for example.
And as for the suspension system: it would be also interesting to see some kind of suspension instead of a completely rigid system, like building a semi-trailing axle for the two tracks.
Keep up the good work!
You need the two track to go at different speed anyway, it's needed to be able to steer correctly, and youn need a way to have a virtual differential
Printed this out but having trouble with the gear box. At least 1 screw on each stack of the planetary gears comes undone at some point. Trying to figure out what might solve this. May redesign part of it.
ua-cam.com/video/rOM37xmcWQk/v-deo.html (my build with some rework). Swapped out screws and nuts in planetary gears and scaled them up a bit. They were a bit loose and had vertical/horizontal slip under torque. Finally, redesigned the gearbox cap to add a large bearing to hold the primary gear that connects to the drive shaft gear. After these changes, this beast moved without issue. I did keep the two sides separate for turning, so more of the original design.
Magnifiques les chenilles
Magnificent!
Steering wheels in the front would be really cool. Hope you’re still with this project
This looks really awesome, great work - excited to see the end product
Il vous manque des galets a suspensions dessous les chenilles des tanks 😉
Glad I stumbled onto this channel, great work dude. 👍
Also nice accent, it’s really cool
I think the Third tractor's style is the best one
8:35 any option requires different speeds on left and right sides.
I think number 1 steering wise. I think with the packed snow and ice you will need as much traction as you can get so the extra set of tracks won't hurt.
is that an CR10 S5 you got there @2:54 bro?
Bom dia parabens
I'm actually in the middle of printing these tracks and already have a gear box finished (well I have the parts just not assembled). I plan on building some kind of tank with my kids. I was probably going to go with independent track speed turning with a third but different track I printed years ago as a rear stabilizing un-powered track. It's still early days with the design and it's slow going as I only have a Ender 5 Plus and a E10 resin printer so I can't produce pieces as fast as I like. Thanks for the files, can't wait to see the next video.
A half track truck is an amazing vehicle.
looks great
I would go with 2 sets of tracks, but I have always thought that was cool.
Are you going to move forward with this design? I’m interested in seeing more of your ideas for it.
Brilliant work, dude! Well done!!! 😃
Looking forward to the next steps on this project!
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
What's the best way to open and convert the step files, I did the The tracks but it seemed cumbersome and I don't remember how I did it.
Actively watching this series for a DIY Snowblower.
To that point, when Top Gear did their northern excursion, their serious rig had the first design, combined with wheels either in all locations or at least on the front.
I think this may be the best way for you to go, because you only have to build a single connection, it gives the tightest turning radius, and your problem of why you were digging in (Called Break-over angle here) Could be solved if you did a front wheel, rear track setup, with an hourglass-shaped coupling section in between them. Could also save on bracing aluminum, which can't be cheap right now, lol.
AWESOME!!!
Oh yeah, can you please talk about sub 10 deg C actual battery lifetimes for your setup etc?
Really great video !
Though I love your ingenuity, I'm having a feeling you're going to let us down in part 3 with your steering. Tanks only steer 'well' with independent tracks.
Could probably just use one motor at front and one at the back, and have some sort of differential,
why not putting the motors on top of each other in the axis of the track wheels ?
what kind of ed printer do you use to print large pieces.
Well, I like the first one
You can put rubber pads on the tracks maybe, to improve traction??
As much as the 1st option would be great for a project I have in mind, 3rd option is my favorite. Especially if you gear it so it has 4 wheel drive at the correct front wheel speed. Looks like it should be pretty easy to swap treads out for some snow treads.
Even with the couplers you’re one more cut to separate the tracks and go back to traditional track steering which is best
Awwww....I miss snow.....
For both articulated chassis and the wheels options you need open differential on the tracks otherwise the turning radius would be way to high. On terrains like snow it may even be impossible to steer and turn the vehicle without proper differential mechanism.
ATV's have used a fixed/straight axles non-differential design for decades. I believe the tracks will still allow the vehicle to turn just fine, but I could be wrong. Here's an example of a straight axle (no differential) ATV.
ua-cam.com/video/OCNPHcgg0aE/v-deo.html&ab_channel=MudPuppy
@@chadcoady9025 it surely works but the turning radius would not be satisfactory and it may struggle on snow like surfaces. I drove such atvs in the past and their turning radius was almost like full size car.
@@MehmetSutas You're right on the turning radius. The turning radius suffers, but you CAN gain traction with a locked differential....though that's getting off topic from this design of a separate motor for each axle. It's still really REALLY cool seeing this kind of build from scratch, trial and error building using 3D prints. I love it! I've printed several part for my RV-8 airplane (experimental). Obviously nothing having to do with the air frame, but things like mirror holders, custom hooks, bottle holders, switch covers, trays, etc. The great thing about positive comment sections is that the builder can use our input to see what works best for his design. :)
Please print an Arcade Stick Push button with hot swappable mechanical keyboard keys.
I love you bro, keep up the awesome work!
Definitely steering option 2 but you should design a differential or make some other way for the left and right tracks to spin with different speeds.
PLEASE!! CAN I HAVE A VIDEO WHEN YOU DRAW IT WITH SOLIDWORKS
THANK YOU
Don't you think that making a ground clearance Bigger will improve it's capabilities?
couple the crawlers through a clutch
I like the first one
When you gonna finish this?
I think the tractors still have differential power to the tracks. If you want to steer using a wheel setup with fixed tracks you need to make more steering force than the lateral force of the tracks which is unlikely.
Cool :)
Here's a thought, how about a re-design of the track parts to allow tot he motor to sit inside of each track? essentially making them slightly taller and wider so your motor+gear module can fit in it then make the drive gear on the outside, this would also get rid of the 90 degree gear translation your doing currently as well as remove the need for such long axels that stick out of the tracks.
need differential of some sort, or
you will have steering problems...
You should go with 4 tracks and add more weight to it.
when you do the next part
Pour motoriser une luge en bois 😎
You'll need a differential of some sorts. I support many of the comments here - you'll need some slip if you plan to drive it on any surface with significant traction.
All those saying you need to have a diff or something
While it would definitely help
I wouldn’t say it’s needed unless you have 100% grip it will slide around
Great work! How much weight can your construction support in your estimation?
Why don't you just leave the collars on and cut the middle bar in half so you can have your original design to keep the wheels separate?
use the combine steering system but put tracks instead of wheels
use rambetters 4wd differential design
Ya know it'd be a lot easier installing parts with tight tolerances if you had a small arbor press at your disposal. 😉
I'm thinking steering at the back would be better. as you accelerate the back is pushed down thus pushing the steering down and giving greater control. Despite that I think not having a solid axel would be better, you will probably need some speed difference between the track despite having separate steering otherwise you are putting higher torque and sideways forces on the tracks. best case early wear but worse case could be dangerous. I'm no expert an any of this but i am looking forward to seeing it finished
Everyone knows tank steering would be better :) For wheeled steering to work you will need weight over the axle. My intuition says rear wheel steering will be less effective than front and is also harder to operate.
when the part 3 ? :)
Làm điều khiển Đi anh
need wider tracks so it doesn't sink as bad and imitate frame bottoming/high centering
This is a really cool project but unfortunately the track geometry is going to lead to issues if it is driven on pretty much anything other than snow. Having the drive sprocket exposed to the outside of the sprocket will lead to junk from outside the tracks getting tangled in the drive sprocket and damaging components. This is the reason that most modern tracked vehicles have the sprocket and sprocket teeth on the inside of the track such that it is protected from debris by the track itself. This could be pretty easily fixed in this design by installing track pads which extend over the links in the track which will also improve traction.
There is also couplings that allow the shafts in either side to spin freely which would allow for steering with two motors. Modern vehicles use a system known as a triple differential and brake pads on either side to steer which is more efficient, reduces stress on the tracks, and reduces wear during turning but that is likely beyond the scope of a 3D printed tractor
Why not drive each side directly from your planetary gearmotor, instead of using bevel gears?
Why are the left and right shafts connected together?
This track type is not practical in snow as you can see for yourself.
The best I've seen is the snowcat project from rctestflight. I'm sure you know it.
Part 3?
#3 OOOOR use a sled / one middle tractor track
Where's part 3?
Try printing a differential for the second? #ChallengeAccepted
Skate électrique...... Oh non ..... De la merde ...
SNOWBOARD ÉLECTRIQUE 😎😎😎
#2 pleeeeassseeee i like the articulation better tires are what's repetitive
Your tracks are on backwards
why make complex when you can make simple
I mean hub wheels or hub motors, not complex differential axle gear systems
farming simulator rocks
farming sim 17!