The Com2us Math that makes people Tilt and Quit & How to fix it! - Summoners War
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- Опубліковано 7 чер 2024
- Please don't misunderstand this video as a "omg my rng so bad video" it's the opposite of that! It's Rather a video in hopes of making RNG semi-equal for everyone!
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![I am NEVER using this LD Nat 5 AGAIN! - High G3 Siege - 鸟人帮 v [MY]Frenzy v AvengerX](/img/n.gif)
Raise your hand if you’re one of the people that summon one or zero ld nat 5 in these 10 years.
Literally just got my first last week after around 1k scrolls
I get just one nat 4 L&D
Summonned 1 ld 5 in 8 years, i actually have 560 ld 3nat non sd in my storage, so i probably opened more than 700 scrolls :)
1 ld 5 at around 900 after 9+ years and 5 quad spd rolls. Watching all these bots pull multiple ld5s and multiple quad spd rolls killed it for me. Honestly, I dont think I'm coming back this time
I’m one of those people 3400 days playing consistently throughout those years
Who has a guildee who summoned 3 ld5 from anniversary scrolls while you got 0?
im the guildi
240 anniversery scrolls and 0nat5, 0ld5, 1ld4... Guess im in team "who has a guildee..."
1 ld4 club here!
Im one of them
Yesterday Talisman Pulled perfectly to my luci and eludia
Just comenting after seeing the thumbnail. My account has now more than 3300 days (G1 RTA), I cannot imagine how many LD scrolls I have opened. Must have been A LOT. And, until now, I got no LD 5. My friend who hardly ever log in to the game got two (Giana and Craka). I cannot put in words how frustrating that is.
that’s sad man i hope you get one soon.
@AlvaroSart very relatable man, oldest player in the guild with zero LD5s and the newbies that joined the guild with only under 1000 days playing got 2-3 LD5 which grinds my gears a lot when seeing that.
There is exactly the same problem on runes. I farmed swift like crazy but never got a quad spd. I began a baby account and got it in 2 weeks, farming very slowly... Imo, it is an even bigger issue than LDs.
All this RNG stuff should obviously be changed and more fair.
Even if com2us doesn’t change anything this is a great visual for people to see the rates in action being correct while having huge variation
Almost 10 years of playing and I've never once pulled a LD Nat 5. Any of the LD 4*s I had that felt special to me ended up becoming HoH mons. And I wasn't F2P either, I've spent thousands of dollars on the game. Purchasing everything I could, and still never pulled anything and got the point I thought my account was litteraly broken or something.
Since then I've done everything, I've purchased other people's accounts just to be able to have something fun to play with. I've made new accounts over and over again. I've manually reset accounts dozens and dozens of times hoping to get one. Never have, not even once.
If Com2Us doesn't fix this shit, or lighten up on buying accounts, I don't see playing for much longer.
A decade with no luck is too long to hold out hope. There's absolutely no reason LD scrolls are so rare and the rates are THAT fucking low.
Furthermore edit: During this 10 year event I've made dozens of new accounts across several devices maxing out the amount of ID's I could have on one device. Didn't pull a single LD nat 5 out of easily several thousand scrolls across all accounts. The only good account I kept pulled 6 Nat 5 normal monsters and a couple of good LD 4*s. It's sickening.
I wish you the best luck finally getting an LD5. There are people complaining but many dont do much in this game so their 10 years equals rather 1 one year of a very active player. But for active players its disappointing, even with 3 LD5 I DO complain after 10 years of never missing any event, toa etc, Seii recently pulled 3 LD5 in a month :D Com2us should finally give out an LD5 after 10 years for everyone with at least 1000 days.
@@Djehuti-85 dont forget, even if you pull one ld5 in those 10 years of playing, you could get the worst ld5s that never get buffed, so a double fuck you from com2us at that point
"I've only played the game for 10 years, if c2u doesnt change anything im gonna quit very soon" ... yeah.. sure
I would honestly be already supper happy if they removed secret dungeons mons from LD scrolls. Got litteraly more sd mons than none sd mons from my past 40 ld scrolls which tilts me so much. Additonally I thought i'm supper lucky getting monsters from the wishes shrine thingy and also got 3 sd mons and one eshir. Which i think is super unlucky while being lucky but id rather take nothing than this shit since I think its kinda similar to pulling a shit ld5 after 100 rather than a good one after 400... maybe im just tilted though..
also thank you so much for this video! nice effort put into it!
I think you might be referring to Hall of Heros rather than Secret Dungeons.
i agree 100% dude i pulled 8 hoh ld4''s during event. Gets very frustrating. I would rather pull a useless UNIQUE ld4 than just more dupes of farmable monsters
@@nvanattiaWhy not both? 🤷
But then new player never gonna get older HoH mons again.... like no Gemini or something ever again...
And to be consistent they would have to remove normal element HoH from MS as well... and this would be horrible
@@nvanattia nope, not hall of heroes. i would be glad if i would actually get any lightnings xD i mean secret dungeon monsters like light neal, janssen or haken; ive got so many of them without ever doing their sd's. this week from free scrolls another neal...(light fairy i think) and so many more to come..
If the rates had actual pity everyone would be awarded for being active and playing… then comes to summons. Especially lds.. and pity reset everytime it reached.
The issue with lds is com2us is not likely to make getting ld5 easier cause it would alienate people who spend money and effort and had crappy luck.
this game got a passive pity system wich is already there. The more you summon, the more dupes you get, the more you can access to premium resources.
For example assumung that you summon 1000 scrolls weekly you got the gems for more reapps, more leds but also to more premium artifacts, runes and grinds.
You can get more like this faster than speedrunning 10 hours a day. And its not a coincidence that the rune shop refreshes every week now than every month like it was before.
I dont like a system where you get a guaranteed nat5 or LD5 after a fixed amount of scrolls since it rewards p2w way more than f2p or casual players. I prefer the reward for active playing like the nat5 with the 300 trans pieces, they could do smth similar with trans LD5 pieces, active playing you cant buy and its too inefficient for bot accounts.
@Djehuti-85 You have it wrong. P2W players already have many and most nat5s. Them getting a nat5 on pity changes nothing. It's better for Com2us because if a person spends $300 and gets no nat5, they are less likely to spend again. Having a pity incentives spending which is good for the health of the game.
It's WAY more beneficial for f2p players, though, because they can save hundreds of scrolls and get no nat5. I summoned 1100 scrolls during this Anniversary and didn't get a nat5. That's absolutely ridiculous and things like this are what makes players quit.
Com2us has introduced a lot of great changes to SW but a pity system is the one thing that is desperately needed. Keeps players spending and prevents them from quitting. The two things you need to ensure the longevity of a gacha game.
@@Hiro_Ieyasu When it comes to normal nat5 it the statistics average out quite fast, 1100 is super unlucky but MS are ez to get. LDs is different since they are so damn rare. If you would get a guaranteed LD5 after 500 scrolls no matter what, whales would get way way more LD5 than you. You: maybe once a year. They: every month. And its not the case p2w players have everything, many still have less than 10 LD5 and imagine they could buy guaranteed LD5 then + the blessing wie have now? That would destroy the game. IMO a system where you get an LD for active playing is more healthy, e.g. every 365 log ins you get one. That would be less advantage for p2w but for f2p it would.
@Djehuti-85 I was maining thinking about a pity for MS scrolls. A system that rewards LD nat5 every so often would be a great alternative to a pity. I am really hoping they at least give us a choose your ld nat4 event in one of the remaining 10 year celebrations.
nice in depth vid. weird how rng tends to be 'streaky' rather then 'spread out' like you'd typically imagine. wonder if its placebo or whether theres a genuine mathematical/engine inclination towards that
It's very simple statistical likelihood, it's not unlikely that rng seems streaky, and yet they are still going to be within a range of expected rolls. That's just how rng works
Especially if you take a small sample (one match), it is still quite likely that rolls would happen to be either very good or very bad.
he checked a couple hundred hits to get a somewhat representative sample size but then cherry picked clusters of outliers that are bound to happen in true randomness. Seii wants com2us to manipulate the RNG in favour of more consistency instead of true RNG. Pretty much a pity system
@@oollahh I mean thats a good idea anyway, most games with crit rates have some form of pity.
@@oollahh But that's the point, and the problem with true random
Being one of the outliers feels like ass
People don't play games to feel like shit so personally I'm all for systems that will limit the amount of variance to reasonable levels
22:16 ~ was one 7 in section B, but thats really crazy what you've put up there. Thx for this, hope someday we can make com2us change this too the good
This video was fantastic thank you so much for taking the time to do the spread sheet i agree completely there are matches where my 100% acc units get 15% shyt back to back man i want more fair rng as well
We should community post this too com2 , rng is indeed the biggest issue in the game and also makes their insanely expensive packs not worth it at al. if you pay 100€ you should feel rewarded and not screwed. Also big issue is flat runes in rewards.. a flat is ISNT a reward !
I enjoy videos like this that have a real effort to put numbers to our feelings. The ACC/RES discussion has always been interesting to me and I do build ACC into some units and generally disregard RES.. As for the LD5 rates, I'd love to see a change like this. My main has 12 and I have 2 alts.. one with 4 and one with 1.. all created within a year of each other..
Great video, thank you for this testing seii! For the love of the game and the fairness in some kind of way for us players.
Thanks for doing this man. I'm glad someone took the effort. Myself, on the LD5 thing, I have 5 of them and have been playing since 2016. I pulled 1 in 2018 (Jaara) on Halloween, 2 in 2021 in June (Light Monkey) and Christmas day (Zerath), and I just pulled 2 in 90 scrolls on my birthday in May this year (Herteit and Beelzbub). I do spend but definitely am not a whale. Probably have spend a grand over this time period. The cluster thing is real because, as you can see, I went 2-1/2 years without pulling one and got 2 on the same day.
Yea i've been on the same page. Pulling 3 in a month of a year without. Both feels weird
This is an excellent video! Also I can't help but keep noticing your Google pfp.
First of all nice video and I gotta say you are pretty good at showing numbers and that.
Me and some friends who played this game for a while now, had an interesting idea on how to change the problem with crit rate and crit damage. We thought about if its possible to make crit rate beeing the number of how much crit damages comes through.
For example if u got 70% crit rate and 200% crit damage your skills will do an additional 140% damage all the time. Of course its hard to do because then u gotta look if its fixed damage and how the skills work that have guaranteed 100% crit rate. But maybe u like the Idea and can use your impowered brain to continue this Idea.
And sorry for my English im german and just woke up
Oliver is an RNG unit because it has double accuracy check.
0.85*0.85 = 0.7225
Getting 1 four times a row has a chance of (1-0.7225)^4 = 0.6%.
Getting a 0 has a chance of (1-0.85)^2 = 2.25%
The numbers seem to be fine. But I agree procc streaks should be nerfed (both ways to cancel each other out). This would make the game less RNG which makes for a better gameplay experience.
For example, starting from the third procc, there could be a growing -5% and + 5% modifier with until a streak is broken. This wouldn't affect gameplay noticably but it would help control crazy streaks.
But there is a slight problem here. The procc chance varies per element advantage/disadvantage. So the game would have to remember each beneficial/harmful procc numbers per individual character. That means more RAM usage. The numbers can go pretty high as 8 characters all have to keep count of 20-40 proccs per game. So there would be like 240 more numbers to keep track of each match. I don't know how much it would make your phone hotter, but it would be hotter.
To lessen the burden on RAM, I would recommend to just add modifiers for VIOLENCE and RESISTANCE checks (not track individual skills).
Examples:
Violence procc rate is 22% for the first 2 consecutive proccs and each consecutive procc would lower the chance by 5%.
Your 1st procc would have a chance of 22%.
Your 2nd procc would have a chance of 22%.
Your 3rd procc would have a chance of 17%.
Your 4th procc would have a chance of 12%.
Your 5th procc would have a chance of 7%.
Violence procc rate is 22% for the first 2 consecutive proccs and each consecutive procc would lower the chance by 5%.
Your 1st non-vio turn procc chance is 22%.
Your 2st non-vio turn procc chance is 22%.
Your 3st non-vio turn procc chance is 27%.
Your 4th non-vio turn procc chance is 32%.
Your 6th non-vio turn procc chance is 37%.
The rates reset after a streak has ended. This effectively boosts violence procc rate, because there is higher advantage to procc after a dry streak. But it would make for a more balanced gameplay experience.
With 85% effective resistance.... After 2 successful resistance checks your resistance would be lowered by 5% with each consecutive procc or increased by 5% if you are debuffed consecutively.
After 2 successful resistance checks, effective resistance is lowered to 80%.
After 3 successful resistance checks, effective resistance is lowered to 75%.
After 4 successful resistance checks, effective resistance is lowered to 70%.
After 2 failed resistance checks, effective resistance is increased to 90%.
After 3 failed resistance checks, effective resistance is increased to 95%.
After 4 failed resistance checks, effective resistance is increased to 100% (automatic resist).
This change would noticeably nerf resistance overall so maybe resistance would be just lowered by 2% instead of 5%...
Note: A failed harmful effect check does not affect the resistance modifier. So a skill may still fail to its harmful effect rate of 50% for example. That check is seen on the screen as "resisted" but it would not be counted to add into the modifier.
I really like the games where you have a pull rate of like 0.5% but there is a counter for 200. If you use 200 scrolls with no pull, you are guaranteed to get a pull and the counter resets. If you pull anytime before 200, the counter resets. The absolute best feeling in those games is when you get a guaranteed pull and right after that, the RNG gods bless you with a lucky pull.
Violent already has variant of the rules you suggested.
The 1st rule outside RTA is that each consecutive proc has reduced chances (in fact it was nerfed in ver 1.6.2 and what make the legends of Perna and Theomars as the Vio gods with 4+ extra turns with no lapping). The old chance was 22% > 15% > 11% > 8% and since then and currently on effect it's 22% > 12% > 7% > 4%
Specifically for RTA the limit is 1 Vio proc per natural turn, meaning that it needs to get full atk bar to reset the counter (Diana/Helena falls into this category). An additional rule added just a bit later and adjusted a few times is that in RTA each time you or the enemy gets a Vio proc it adds 5% to the enemy Vio proc (max 27%) and deducts you 5% (min 12%).
might do sum maths arround ld scroll rng distribution tomorrow and comment here. good vid as always 👍
I understand the groupings and shit luck / crazy luck streaks. With mystics on the coins as an example (of which I've summoned 700+ just from coins, excluding all the additionals from glory etc) there's days where I can just tell I'm not getting shit. There are other days where it's just lightning after lightning. It's incredibly apparent.
I don't play tons of RTA, but there are matches that are disgusting because I proc and land everything, others where the opponent does, and games where it's equal whether both good, mediocre, or bad.
Violent used to absolutely ruin the game for me, and I played chronicles to take a break from it... now I'm back, I can look at it with a bit more of an objective view.
What I'm trying to say (in a long winded way) is some days it's shit, others it's great, but random it definitely is.
That's my observation anyway, but it's great the work you've done here and the video is really good man. Appreciate your work for sure.
Great video and thanks for taking the time to get a large sample size. This does raise a concern, which is, does Com2Us have an RNG that is close to random as possible? Does Summoners War have a different RNG server for different content? For instance, are the Arena, RTA, Siege and PvE utilizing different RNG algorithms? Obviously I could be experiencing confirmation bias, but it does seem like I see low probability events happening way too often (especially in PvE). I wonder if you or others can take this data and make a random distribution to see if it is actually close to random.
Great vid very educational and gives one a better sense of how unpredictable the RNG algorithm is and its makes sense why the game is speed based more speed more hits=better RNG….kinda😂
Really great idea. Hopefully c2u will check this idea about method 2 as it is better imo even than in chronicles the guaranteed one after 200 scrolls
Good job Seiishizo!
You are amazing keep doing what you do
I have been counting my ld scrolls and I am at 1038 without an ld5. Something like this isnt fair. Method B would stop situations like this from happening. If only Com2Us would listen. (To make matters worse, I did get a fake ld 5)
What’s a fake ld5?
@@itsrichy4308 It was able to summon awaken 4* monster as 5* purple star monster aka fake 5.
I remember back in the day a mathplusgames video of a justice system to have fair vio proc chances, could extrapolate it to acc and res check and make the game more fair for everyone
saw that video and excel idea is based of his. absolutely loved his video about the topic
I completely agree with this and my idea how to fix the summoning would have been adding a cap of how unlucky you can be. Example if you summon 500ld scrolls in a row without ld5, the next one should be guaranteed. Kinda works same way as your failstack system. That would work too
i wondered what kinda bot you had set up to do this for you, nah seiishizo doin it by hand XD hell yea man mvp puttin in the work
The incremental odds is a pretty good idea to be implemented in summoners war. This is actually implemented in DOTA 2 treasures as well.
Nice vidéo ! I was looking for someone to talk about it, i have no trust in com2us since crit bug. Btw, Com2us is actually getting controlled by a korean company about gambling.
This is a good analysis of probability distributions. We should not forget that the way com2us makes money is with those clusters. You get a rush when your oliver lands everything and we constantly chase that rush. Sometimes people also spend when they feel shitty. When you have a bad RTA day, people might buy scrolls to make up for it. Its all gambling and dopamine chase. This is the idea that most mobile games are built on these days.
One thing they could do is boost the rates using regular elementals. So we can sacrifice regular 4* to increase the chance of summoning specific LD4. This way late game players can chase some LD4* at least. I still don’t have a molly. if i could give away a bunch of tetras to have an increase of chance of summoning her would be nice.
This is why I always always said a soft pity is good for LDs. Great video as always
Love the video. Great visualisation of the rates. Psychology plays into this as well, as human memory tends to reinforce/remember unusual events and disregard/forget the ordinary ones... So if you play 1000 games, you tend to remember only the 10 games you had really good, or really terrible rng. Thus your experience of the game is actually very warped.
I think one of the things people miss with games like SW is just how important scarcity and rng are to the game as a whole - they're a HUGE part of what keeps a game like this interesting. Especially in pulling nat5s/ld5s. Everybody has a different toolkit because everybody has different luck in what they pull, what runes they get, etc, and that actually prevents the game from being "solved". If everyone had equal access to everything, then the optimal strategy would be the same for and against every other player. Scarcity ensures that this doesn't happen, but the downside is that you're not supposed to ever "catch them all".
I suspect the problem with the method proposed to curb some of the worst of the RNG issues is actually regulatory. Imagine if a casino had a roulette wheel that did the same thing. There's no way that would fly. Likewise, the LD scroll packs you buy - as it is, there is a small, but equal chance that you get an LD5 from any given scroll pack. If the rates change based on how many packs you buy though... Huge legal headache I would imagine... And further, if you have to buy a bunch of packs just to get your rates up, then packs only become worth buying if you're willing to whale - the more you spend, the more it becomes worth it to spend.
We also need a reduction in summon chance for each dupe ld4* we summon. I felt sick getting 4 light pierrets in a row, not from HoH either, for a total of 14 on my account over the years. Hell, I’m missing more ld4’s than normal element nat 5’s (27-23) which is just dumb. Not sure how you could test that but I feel it’s needed
this research need to appreciate
I had 1 LD5 for first 6 years playing game, spending about $100 a month. 3 this year, yet none from the event scrolls
Man, a 200 anniversary scroll event would be cool now 😢
Love those people who complain about playing for 10 years with no ld5 and when checking their record they did not even cleard toa hard 100 or they did not even lock in half of the days. Nice video Seii really like your passion about the game and giving constructive critic instead of just hating ceep it going =)
Some accounts definitely do have insane LD luck compared to others. I’ve been playing for roughly 8.5 years and spent a ridiculous amount of money over the years and have 8 LD5’s. Decent rate. Friend of mine keeps restarting his account and gets multiple LD5’s every time. Most recently restarted about 3 weeks ago and already has 2 ld5’s without spending money.
Hello, got a friend who assumed it was because of auto-mode for those vio procs
I don't wanna be that guy but my oliver is really never work like the enemy oliver who rarely missing skills. My oliver is 76 acc with 9 acc on artifacts s3 and 10 acc on s2. This when i was still play the game before but I quit ady. This vid really nice bro thx for the effort.
In arena, my Ariel gets stunned despite 100% resistance. When the rest of the team is less than 40%. And it happens even against fire units. Therefore, I replaced the runes by reducing the resistance to 85%, one thing, it does not work as I expected.
to put this video into a simple TLDR: Com2Us looks at ALL results, not individuals. In other words: your bad luck of today is someone elses good luck. Eventually, it will "average out". Just that it's a bit unlikely with LD 5's cause the sample size is super small in comparison to mechanical results (like ACC/RES etc).
This is really just the basics of how RNG in games (particularly: Gacha games) works. This is why people that ask for a pitty system have an entirely valid point: If you run long without an LD5, someone else will get your "good luck" instead. The nat 5 someone pulls is a nat 5 you don't get.
I have to disagree with you on the idea that whales won't spend more. A pitty system like the one you proposed could actually lead to an increase in sales cause every LD will do SOMETHING for you, even if its just a slight increase.
Yep exactly that. Lets hope that they look at it and maybe give it a bit of a change
The only comment that makes sense
Lmao now I can become a hater and say some stole my ld5 luck. Your comment makes so much sense. Also explains why my friend has 300 days with 5 lds while my other friends has 1000 with 0. The mf stole his ld5s xD
i never had issues with oliver. wish you tested odds of min\max grind\gem rolls.
I totally agree that they should apply this logic for everything in the game.
I started a smurf account recently, i've been playing for 10days on the account and my progression so far is pretty fast, but right now i'm stuck because for r5 I have : no Fria, no xiao Lin. For DB : no astar. For TOAH: no tyron and no garo for akroma stage.
I also didn't get a lot of other important 4 stars for the rest of the game, out of 1000 MS + the premium scrolls.
As someone that has a main account it's not that tilting for me, other than not being able to farm as much the 10year event as I would've like to, but I can't imagine a beginner having to go through this, I would totally understand if they would quit the game.
a single copy of each 4 stars, elemental and LD shouldn't be this hard to get in 2024.
I think RNG is still RNG after all. And their argument was "it's more interesting if there ks a chance to win (with RNG related situation) than an absolute result with no chance at all".
My opinion to violent related case is perhaps make violent not affect cooldown. I think it will make game better. CMIIW
Hey seii, can you build the same monster with cr build and cd, but use cd in artis and subs instead of cr in subs. I want to see how close the damage is, or whats better.
meanwhile my 100day account alr have 2 OP Ld 5 and still want more lmaoo
we NEED pity mechanics com2us.
ive been playing actively without pause since release, p2w on top, and i have 1 ld5.
while i DO have one, thats one in ~3000+ ldscrolls. It feels so unfair
I noticed that in new accounts legend rune rolls sucks means the rate is different than older and higher level accounts which sucks for new players because even if the rune is legend the rolls are only on blue levels only
In terms of in game rng, it makes quite a lot of sense to include a sort of rng normalizer into the formula such that at the end of the game, the actual percentage of each event occurring is close to their actual chances. One downside is that this would also eliminate crazy games where everything hits. On the technical aspect, this might be very challenging, because how do you normalize through a permutation of 4 units each side with 3 abilities each, if you're only hitting one unit 1 time with another unit, then this normalizer would never come into effect.
On the other hand, for pulls. I think having these crazy high rng streaks of multiple LD 5s in very little pulls is healthy for the game, it gives the gambling incentive for players to pull even at low counts of scrolls. Lots of other gacha games have pity system, it'd be quite nice for summoners war to also get pity, especially for f2p players that would maybe get 400-1000 LD scrolls in the entire lifespan of the account.
You'd probably do acc/trigger chance per skill. That's the easiest implementation. You will still have streaks of failed res/acc checks across your team then, but I think that's something you have to accept
For despair and vio I'd say it probably makes sense to normalize it team wide? Missing full despair on 3 aoe units in a row in rta is stupid and hitting 4 despair with one unit is also dumb
Having full team on vio and not getting a proc on anything for 4 full rotations in a row is also stupid, and getting 4 procs in a row back to back is also just... yea
Same with revenge and seal, even crits
Pity system for LnDs would be nice
Well, what I think is that you need more views and likes for amount of work you put in. And I like your idea, and its easy to implement (code-wise) so I dont see why would they not think of it...
I can't explain the results, but on my account I have about 26 ld's. It's almost become a joke, when many of my guildies struggle. Now I will say I've put down a few coins over the 10 years... but quite a few.
yea the odds are there because of their way of pure rng
I might come back to the game if they were to change this
I quit after almost 7 years. And i had littarly 1 lighting on a l&d scroll. And it was a light gargoyle wich was hoh 3 days before that.
Yea, ive been playing this game for 9 years and only got dark lightning emperor so far. My acc is so cursed that even with like only 50-60% of nat 5s i got 4 back to back dupes. Its insane.
This so called soft pity system that you proposed in the last part of the video would even make sense financially for com2us.
Because if I know the more LD scrolls I open the better my chances for an LD5 will get, I will always want to buy more since that ups my rate. And also if I get unlucky I know I will still get an LD5 at some point for sure since the rate will be damn high by then.
So if I want to spend a big amount of money I'm more likely to actually do that on this game if it had soft pity because I know that I'm somewhat guaranteed an LD5 at some point.
On the other hand how rates are now, I would never spend my money on this shit system because I know I could spend thousands over thousands and open several hundreds of LD scrolls and still walk away with freaking NOTHING.
Yea i think it has mainly pros' and very little cons
Playing for almost 8 years with a few short breaks In there. Never pulled an ld 5 😢
I've played this game since 2015 everyday until today and I only have 1 LD nat 5. How to brain this?
My 2 year old account I've summoned over 2000 scrolls with chances to get an ld5 and still don't have one. I was rerolling another account for the special 10 year scrolls and in 25 rerolls (about 2400 scrolls) I got 3 with ld5s.
i played 2 matches today and my oliver decided that it was not the day to land. sooooo i just log out.
Thanks for crunching the numbers. 2 LD 5, in 7 years
Also from your arena rush neptyhs s2 is most consistent than other desert queen s2
Damn, Lower rate but having it increase for every scroll used is actually a great Idea to be implemented that will reward people that will stick with the game for a long time. Also, If C2U end up implementing this, would be nice to see that older players summoned scroll would be counted in and have them actually rewarded for sticking that long.
Edit at end of Vid: While 1000 ld is too much imo, 300-400 ld for the "Guarenteed" ld5 would be nice, Pity system is needed looking at the age of this game.
As a Cádiz owner, I find that Cádiz thumbnail disrespectful but true af🥲
if you want the most accurate results, try 100acc vs 100res which should be an even 50%
i have 3k days, played actively about 2100 days of them and completed pretty much every event, did world boss and guild content at least 95% of the time and i have still zero ld5. even bought quite some 1350 crystal packs and a couple ld when they were included in packs like transcende scrolls. hard to tell how many i opened, but it should be at least 400-500. the rates made me quit 2 times already and i will say farewell to the game very soon if this continues
In pve the Activation rates depends on last season rank. If u are rank 1 and enimy is 300 last season then this season ur activation rate decreases and enimies activation increases this includes vio dispair revenge all rng . It is neutral if u test if testing content unless its a real ranjing test. This is to ensure that leaderboards changes all season. It is more obserbable in seige content. Thats why all guild on left side in tournament page wins more..
ive got lot of nice ld4s and 7 ld 5 (zerath,yh,berghild,douman,lucifer,oberon and craig)😇
I would love if Com2Us implemented this
i think they should try to make a RTA season. just to try it out.. where all skills always land with 100% chance. and no vio.. no revenge runes, no dispear and so on. just to try it out.
would be funny, but also very predictable. yet i'd like to see it for a special league
Pulled Daniel and like 3 days after i got a Danielr. Like within back to back ld lightnings.. less than 10 ld scrolls probably. Rates can be really good, but they can be terrible aswell.
I would bet my ass that theres also some kind of boosted p2w rate in summoning and generell luck in the game :'D
A friend got me back in summoners war and I decided to start on a new account. The account is 148 days old now and has 6 ld 5. I have invested SOME money but not nearly enought to justify more then 1-2 ld 5. Last one I pulled was Wolyung yesterday. I literally feel so bad for my guildmates that have to watch me pull ld 5 after ld 5 in the past 4-5 months, while there are people who have NONE or deserve to have a second or third one. Altough ld 5s are def not needed to do well in PvP its nice to have a unique unit to play some fun teams so I really dont understand why Com2us so scrappy about since I know that my Lds allowed me to enjoy PvP much more due to all the possibilities I now have (Eludia, Groggen, Vancliffe, Dark Indra, Julianne they are all quite unique)
Meanwhile I summoned my third Hanwul a few weeks ago 😅
From 2016 when i began playing the game, i got in total 4 ld5. 2 of them in 2018 with a 6 month gap (for both i saved from beginning of the year until June and then December), then after this I got the other 2 this year (one in April and the 2nd 2 weeks later). Life is fair for some and for other not so unfortunately
yeah the only thing you can do to average out probability is having as many checks as possible. Unfortunately regarding LD scrolls even 10 years is not that much as people would think, 1000-2000 scrolls without an LD5 is not uncommon, from 5000+ we're talking about "average probability" but that equals rather 20 years of active playing.
if i recall correct, League of Legends and their Crit system is really good ( little abuseable). If u havbe 50% crit and u dont crit twice u get higher chance to crit at 3 attack
4 years and not a single ld5 😢
8 years playing, not a single ld5 on my previous "main" account, now alt account. Got tired and bought an account with LDs.
@@lustredamus same here, 8 years nothing, I have good LD4s on my main but no LD5 there, so I got tired of it, but did not buy one, I just did rerolls a bunch during the 10 years scrolls event, and got an account starting with Leah/Ragdoll and a Tiana, so I started with this one
I'm playing since 2016-17 with only a few breaks, still no ld5 I swear, lots of elementals and some good ld nat4 but still not a single ld5
Too bad com2us won't listen to these types of things. Although if more people do quit (I reset my account May 21st and won't be back), then maybe they will get the idea. Or maybe they'll just keep the billions they made and laugh at us for being stupid enough to think they might actually care about the players. I'd like to say I was by no means a whale, but I did spend some money on the game (about $4000-$5000US in 8 years). As far as LD5s, I summoned 2 (Shun and Alexandra in around 1200-1300 LD scrolls, and none from premiums that had the opportunity of an LD5 like SWC scrolls, collab scrolls, 10 year scrolls, or all attribute scrolls). The game was merely for enjoyment purposes for me, and when it wasn't enjoyable it was time to leave.
So the devs wanted RNG to be a part of everything in the game, from summoning, to ACC/RES, to vio procs, etc. What I would've liked seeing is them address the RNG with summons and ideally the RNG with Vio runes. Have a pity for summons where you can't go more than 300 non LD summons without a nat5 and no more than 400 LD summons without a nat5. This would've been a step in the right direction in keeping me playing. ACC/RES needed to just be straight up Acc vs Res, nothing more. When it was equal, then you flip a coin. The other change that would've been nice to see is to change Vio to a static gain an extra turn every 5th turn after the first proc. This would give the set a slightly higher rate of extra turns, but not make it feel debilitating when your opponent appears to get all the procs and you get none.
Good luck to those that are still playing and enjoying the game, but the game itself ran its course for me, and no matter what they do now I won't be returning.
Yea lets hope c2u looks at it and maybe changes something for the better.
I quit game because of vio procs, quit like 3 year ago then came back for some good events,farmed like 20 days and made sss all dungeons and 50 sec on hard dungeons then joined siege wars etc,tried climb on arena and saw vio proc rates are still same.No matter what others thinking but for me vio runes ruining game and i see no reason to play. You trying to beat your enemy using your all skills and taking their half or more hp ,stunning their monsters then one monster getting add turn,healing team,getting another turn and stuns and def break your monster,then other monster taking add turn and killing one of your monster . Its more annoying for new players because arena ranks are mixed and mostly there is hard arena def you facing so its really no fun .
Yea it can bey very frustrating
My take on this situation is that "statistics are bitches", more seriously, yeah from the moment something involves statistics, there will be unconstistancies, especially on small samples such as one individual rta fight, it's annoying as hell and that's basically what makes rng in esports overall so frustrating, that's precisely why Smash bros players play without objects on map without interactions during competitions, so only the player's skill is involved in the result of the game. For Summoners war, that's why so many people ask for pities with summon and I think there should be something somewhat similar for runes aswell allowing you to reduce the rng once the sample of tries gets big enough (stupid idea, but once you farmed 50000 runes in a dungeon, you can get one rune from a set from this dungeons with defined substats and you can decide how many times the rune will proc in each substats, keeping a bit of rng just with the quality of those procs instead of going for maybe 200000 runs to get one rune that could eventually be an upgrade on your 10th rune set)
They should add a guaranteed 5* summon like Epic Seven
Man, my first ld 5 was cadiz, then few months later, my second ld 5 was also.....cadiz
Damn, i feel bad for you bro
hmmmm....i guess i missed where he actually said what the different methods were.
That's why i play bruisers, because turn 1 is so rigged. Also, very very interesting video. Hopefully they listen
Got all 3 normal sky surfers in around 30 scrolls yesterday?! 🤦🏻
I pulled a dark sea emperor while watching this video, ty LMAO 2nd ldn5
i got my first ld5 at 3300 days.. and thats playing everyday for hrs a day summoning alot. and it was kinda a shit one dark shadow caster :(
Basically rng vs prd
hey guys...help me choose. oliver or haegang. i dont do too much rta (only cleave upto c1/c2)
lf vio test vs hrungir skill test...it's insane how 22% in rta have huge better chance then 40% skill.or i'm unlucky?
no clue how those 2 extra chance checks work together tbh but is something i could test at some point yea.
Basically what SW needs is a pity system, for procs and for summons. So lets say u fail to summon a nat5 after 100 tries, you get a guaranteed nat 5 pull. Also means 100 LD scroll will guarantee u at least 1 ld5. This concept is in literally every modern gacha games now, to keep both unlucky f2p and whales in the game. I guess 10yrs ago when SW was out, pity system isnt that mainstream? 😅
Edit: just watched the 2nd half of the video. There is definitely a way for com2us to calculate a formulae where the expected rate of nat5 remains the same, but make life better for some of the most unlucky ppl. Will they do it? Doubt so
Vio In-/decrease Logic be like:
* enemy procs 15 times *
* me procing ones *
* oh you proced, now I can proc 15 times again *
Test with the low res possible, the worst thing is the 100% side, you rune a 100% res mob and it resist only 15% of the time, so what the point in 100% res?
RES is by far the least valuable stat in this game since you wanna rune debuffers with 85 acc anyways (if dont, youre gambling). But still, for example against a Theo with only 20 Acc it helps to have 100 res.
First: thanks for the effort
Second: scam2us will never do something to make the players have a better expierence, they prob sitting on there golden throne in seoul and be like "fuckers be happy that we dont reduce the chance with each summon"
third: rn what i hate the most about the game is that ai is not artificial inteligence, but just straight up give youre phone to a new work and let him tap the shit out of youre skills
Been playing the game actively for 10 years with 2 ld5s as a casual spender. Meanwhile my guildies are absoultely f2p and stacking 5-6 ld5s. Its so stupid, they are going to lose all their casual spenders if they dont address this.
man I totally agree with the whole video, it would make the game so much better, but com2us doesn't want that, they just want to keep the game as it is, adding new stuff VERY sporadically, because they're afraid to change it and kill the game.. but what they don't understand is that we play the game because we enjoy it, doesn't matter if it's shit or the best game ever, we like it, so more changes would be awesome to keep it fresh and maybe new players are going to come, and new players could mean 1 more whale
Nice Work and very justified solution, wich would make the Game at some Point enjoyable.
But lets be real, Something Like a pity system has been mentioned several Times. Com2us didnt care at all.
Also since you have mentioned stuff of the past, according too justified Game mechanics Like crit.
I would also Put a Point on how Just com2us is. When Thompsin bought g4m xtals and botted for raid even on public. They didnt Ban him at all, while other ppl i know of that time has been banned without making it Public at all.
I truely appreciate your efforts. But com2us is protecting and giving efforts onto whales wich spents huge amounts on weekly bases.
So i'll doubt this is gonna lead after 10 years too a fair Point at all.
I recently came Back too this Game and i was surprised about These qol Updates, even few Friends got hooked, for 2 month and bought accs and now reselling it again cuz this Game is Just Not as fair as it was for the First 7 years.
im going to be quitting myself too. f2p for almost 10years and the RNG is just fked. took me 5years to get one LD nat 5 and it wasnt a game changer. (fermion). my 2nd LD5 is vivachel and thats where it ends for me. guild wars def having higher chance to vio proc. still missing debuffs even with 90%+ acc. revenge proc, farming runes, devilmons focusing more on skill one to waste them. and the list keeps going. im finally bored of summoners war.
thats too bad yea, but in the end if you dont enjoy playing. its better not to waste time on something you dont enjoy :P
@Seiishizo I'm going away from mobile games and focusing on buy one games.