I figured that each of the songs I have written have cost $400 CAD each to mix, master, and release. Then there's the time spent learning the instruments both hard and software. Not a huge amount. But it is when your income isn't exactly massive!
I genuinely hope you read this @Damiankeyes, a great video as always. I totally agree but I would suggest a look at an even bigger picture: My two cents: It's not just a Spotify problem. This is an intrinsic problem with platform capitalism. We can apply this to Facebook, UA-cam, Steam, Netflix....anywhere where products or content are delivered online on a mass scale. Companies like Spotify have essentially have gained monopoly power and own a kind of digital infrastructure that is essential for musicians to have a career at all. The reason billionaires like Ek do not invest into the artists and the community and the scene (i.e the people actually creating the product/art and doing the work).... ...is because under this economic model he has very little incentive to do so. Spotify does two basic things: 1) owns a giant bank of servers 2) delivers a consumer interface to access the library of content within those servers. With all other streaming services offering essentially the same library, what sets them apart is the interface and delivery method. This is where their main "innovation" really takes place, to make things better for the end user. But take the latter away and what we have is nothing more than what amounts to digital landlordism. Spotify owns the space where music is consumed, and collects RENT on that space which they deliver to their shareholders. Market mechanisms have very little sway in this scenario, as Spotify has monopoly power and sets the terms of commerce. If Spotify invested in venues, community, education etc, would that ACTUALLY see returns for them? It could potentially increase the quality and quantity of music being uploaded sure. But they a monopoly. The economic incentive to invest in the artists creating the content under this model will ALWAYS be lesser than the incentive to deliver short term profits for shareholders, who want to see returns, and want to see them quickly as possible. From their perspective, investing in the actual people doing the work is simply a waste of money when artists are already doing this work for them for free. Fiduciary responsibility actually precludes them from investing in artists. I'll say it again. Fiduciary responsibility actually precludes them from investing in artists. Trying to appeal to people like Ek to "give back" to the industry and the artform is utterly pointless - because they will not do it under this model. They have no incentive other than the kindness of their heart, which as you have established in this video - they do not have. This is why Ek invests instead into weapons tech, energy generation, buying stadiums etc. People like him have a much greater incentive to buy up existing assets and generate new rental income on those, than to invest in assets they already have, or to create new ones. What's the solution? Online platforms are not going away. But if we had the political will, we could change the way their businesses operate. Look at a video sharing platform like Nebula. Under their model, the creators and artists sharing the content ARE the shareholders. There are no unaccountable CEOs or shareholders sucking money out of the system and introducing the perverse short-term incentives I've detailed above. Everyone who makes money on that platform IS a creator, IS somebody actually *working* and creating. I.e people who actually CARE about the artform and about the community and quality of work. The creators get to decide together what direction the company takes and where profits gets invested. Now imagine if Spotify was like Nebula. This is the only scenario where I can foresee that Spotify would actually invest in the artists and the industry. Because the people making the decisions, and reaping the returns, are the people making the art in the first place.
YESSS I literally just commented this. They absolutely fuck up on this. Let us get the emails of our "super listeners" to build our communities. Glad someone else is seeing this.
@@ItsJustAdrean it isn't about money, it's about stock value of the company. Money = taxes. Company taxes, payroll taxes, now borrowing on stock evaluations is unrealized gains. So using their stock value to purchase other companies in mergers or buying rights to stream shows. Brings up their stock price. Stock stock stock, unrealized gains gains gains.
An old quote comes to mind: "Musician: Someone who puts $5,000 worth of gear into a $500 car to drive 100 miles to do a $50 gig..." -we have never been respected by the industry, or the fans for that matter.
This reminded me of my college day. Most gigs don't really make money, we just wanted to have fun. Being a professional musician was never an option. We don't really play music now.
@@Marta1Bucklol yup that’s how i ended up working In wastewater..4 guys, $300 for 3 hours of music, 2 hours at least of lumping rigs and drums, hour to set up and an hour to break down. Forget about food and travel..all for like 30 people to show up at a smelly ass bar/club..i literally would rather work in the sewer
Spotify is more than just music though. But yeah he should have just said music, podcasts and audiobooks cuz the word content has a negative connotation in this context.
@@RealHomeRecording For me it's ok he said it that way because that's what he thinks. At least he is being honest. Categories are kind of mixed up. There is music that is content (and I guess that is going to be mostly made with AI pretty soon) and there is Music as an art form which is what I care about
@@100DollarHeadache Yeah, production cost is lower but it is not zero. Zero is what you get from streaming if you don't reach their threshold for payment
@AdamFontenet Making music "is free" if you are tapping your chest and singing out loud, and you never took a lesson in your life and you don't value you time. Totally agree on the gear / expectation part. The fact that the Music Industry has been swallowed by the Entertainment world and logic, is (in my humble opinion) central to this matter
The problem with many musicians is that they have no business acumen. And yes Eck is yuck. We as musicians can't defend ourselves if we don't understand those trying to take advantage of us.
i made more music contacts in the myspace days because of one feature: being able to search artists by genre in certain locations, including my local area. that did more help for my musical "career" than anything else in the last 20 years.
I can really feel your anger and passion. Yes this was disrespectful to artists especially new unestablished ones who are now excluded from any Spotify pay until they reach a threshold. I totally agree Daniel Ek should be doing more to champion artists and create infrastructure and maybe even grants. I for example have enough songs 13:14 for a second album but at 84 on a very limited income do not have the funds and it will take quite some time to raise that money. He is ignoring all the expenses that go into producing music by saying the cost of content is almost zero.
I'd rather have my music being pirated than giving any money to this guy and his company. Spotify is pretty much a scam and Daniel Ek is a super villain. You even defending them or seeing any "pros" is like a victim in an abusive relationship defending their abuser. It's madness.
I honestly can't see what the pros are besides the convenience. But then it's convenient to stream stuff on UA-cam. Or just rip your CDs to your phone or summat
I couldn't agree more! it was kinda sad to watch this video. I feel horrible for anyone who still support this evil scam, it shows how pathetic things are at the moment. But I have hope for the future, a post-streaming world is around the corner. Lets all keep creating quality music with all our heart and soul. These blood sucking dorks who feeds off art in the dark will have to face the light one day.. and it will burn!
Yes, the 6 figures I've poured into hardware, software, a home studio, and the thousands of hours I've poured into my craft was simply to make "CONTENT" and it was actually no cost at all to me!
@@GreenBlueWalkthrough My collection took years to gather, and I did use a cheap DAW and free VSTs for many years, but there's still always an initial financial and time investment
@@jon_of_the_shred See I'd argue this kind of half proves him right though. These days, those 6 figures is compressed into a few grand of a laptop and cheap plugins, plus the much lower cost of quality instruments. That few grand is still a lot of money to many and he does sound very out of touch, but it's not not anywhere near as scarce as studio time used to be.
@@martyshwaartz971 Oh no, I definitely agree we're absolutely spoiled with ease of recording and access to amazing hardware and software. Home studios are so much more attainable nowadays, I'm definitely an extreme example of someone who just loves to collect all kinds of music software
but there should be right to equality, everybody should be able to create content of their choice and share to the public................ Of course to end the monopoly of large players, what i see is spotify will become like youtube and there's nothing wrong in it, UA-camrs like mr beast who have billions dollar setup grows on setus so does a travel blogger with nothing more than a bike and i-phone.
Spotify/streaming customers need to know that when these streaming services are out of business they loose their complete music collection on these platforms. Honestly streaming music is not the way to go as a music lover.
That would be a wake up call however I just think there will be a new boss similar to the old boss. I think if a DSP like Tidal or Deezer invest in infrastructure they could become hero’s in the whole industry
@@DamianKeyesin my dream, I wish somebody with giant resources, giant money, loves music & musician and made something which really pro-thinking about (especially the poor) musicians
Ummm nobody's under any illusion that it ain't so? And nobody thinks or talks about their Spotify as a "music collection" lol. Kind of a boomer comment tbh
Everyone makes money off a band except the band. Have to buy gear, hire mixers, pay for band photos, pay for gig photos, buy art for albums and singles, get a logo made, pay for music videos. All those people making money off the band while the band doesn't make shit.
Bands make money off touring and merch. If they wrote their own songs they make money off publishing. They get master licenses for performing music that’s placed in film/tv/commercials. They get sync licenses for writing the music in film/tv/commercials. Sync and live shows are the lifeboats of the music biz. The sync lifeboat is shrinking. The live music lifeboat is still floating. I was a recording engineer for 20 years. I slaved to get better at my craft. I wasn’t some leach making money off a band. I was providing a service in exchange for money. Maybe the band could have spent years dedicated to engineering so they could have tracked and mixed themselves. You’re take is embarrassingly simplistic and ignorant
@@jaykay6412 the vast majority of bands won't be in any TV shows or make a dime off any of that crap except maybe merch. Breaking even or going in the hole on touring expenses. I've been a musician for 35 years, you're way out of touch working in a bubble and your smug insults mean shit.
@@jaykay6412 Touring is more expensive than ever, bands don't even get to sell merch without giving a 20% cut to the venue; lucky to break even on food transportation and lodging. Selling music and earning royalties is not a thing for almost all bands since music is consumed for free. The handful of musicians making 30 second jingles for commercials and recording theme music for sitcoms aren't paying for album art, mixing, photography, or music videos. If you're going to be smug at least make it relevant.
@@jaykay6412 - No one is saying that engineers were just leeching off of bands, the OP simply stated that the only ones making money from music are those who supply services and products to musicians, while musicians rarely can make money from their music. I work a full time job, take care of my elderly Mom, and also write and record my own music, and mix and master it too. I'm far from an expert at those things however, as there's simply not enough time to become an expert mixing engineer if I want to also have some free time to write and record my own music as well. The only way a low popularity musician can make money these days is if he/she can somehow find the time to become great at writing, recording, mixing, and mastering their own music (to save money), as well as learn to do all their own artwork for covers and logos, and then learn to do great videos on their own as well. It's a tall order.
Not to mention with the cost of living increasing its just unsustainable for most artists to even dedicate themselves solely to their craft. Video is spot on though Damian. As a musician myself it’s painful to see how lost this industry has become.
everyone together now: Music is NOT Content! fucking content, I hate that word. Music comes from the soul, and is the most beautiful representation of humanity. Music is a language that crosses all cultures and borders. Music is the heartbeat of the universe. Music is the motion that moves time forward. Music can bring peace and fuel a revolution.
To be fair, most of what's out there is just content-nothing special about it, and could have been made by any uneducated amateur. It's filler for the platform, serving no real purpose other than numbing our brains and destroying our souls. Sure, there’s good music out there, but let’s not pretend all music has some divine, beautiful quality that reflects humanity. A lot of it is pretty much garbage, made for a quick buck, and will be forgotten in a few years.
DIRECT TO FAN is the ONLY future for the diy independent artist! So many artists are now choosing not to use Spotify or ANY streaming platform. Spotify and others streaming platforms are now the gatekeepers and take all the money without giving anything back. They are strangling the music industry slowly.
a CEO of somethin as spotify, they should know how much time went into almost every track, album, EP, effort, money, etc just to create all these and then make a statement like this is mindblowin to me
It really felt like a disrespect to all of the people who should look up to him didn’t it. He can do so much more even if it’s not paying more per stream. I feel it’s time one of the DSP’s builds infrastructure. What do you think?
@@DamianKeyes I agree, I feel like I speak for every artist who is small or like me, haven't finished or released a track yet, can make it feel very discouraging to see that tweet from the CEO of Spotify itself.
I can bet he's much more of a Silicon Valley tech guy than a music guy. Saying something as wild as "music is basically content" means he's way far gone.
Thank you for saying what we’re all thinking and feeling. The music industry is a win/lose situation right now. Companies win and artists lose. It should be a win/win and Spotify would make so much more money if they actually invest in artists because without us, they wouldn’t have any music. WE are Spotify. NOT Daniel or any of these executives.
Really well said! You are so spot on. Many thanks for saying up loud what few in the Music industry dare to say. Many thanks for standing up for all struggling artists and upcoming stars. Damian, that was so good! Hope he will listen to you and do something about it.
Absolutely, it was at best a clumsy unthought out comment but at worst it shows Daniel as out of touch and uncaring about musicians out of the top tier artists
@@DamianKeyes it’s a shame that Spotify doesn’t seem to want to move with the times and adapt their service to benefit the many indie/unsigned artists!
the $100 million exclusive deal Spotify signed with Joe Rogan in 2020, when most artists' livelihoods had blown up from the pandemic, while claiming being unable to pay artists dirt really was disgusting. They've since signed another $250 million deal.... good on you for calling them out on blowing their money on stupid advertising, too. If they were smarter, and took care of artists to some iota as you mentioned, the smaller artists themselves would be singing spotify's praises and doing far more effective marketing for them rather skippable, obnoxious ads.
Artists need to stop playing the game that Spotify and the "new music industry" want us to play. I won't be pumping out content daily even if its free. Creating music involves significant time and money spent on recording, songwriting, rehearsing, and performing. The current system primarily benefits major labels and artists with substantial backing/teams (who most of the time help creating content). With the support of labels and production companies, DSPs make these artists' songs easier to find through algorithms and editorials, and other playlists which are often influenced by payola. (Which helpa improve the algorythm) Independent artists, however, must rely on ads and spend money on other methods that generate little to no revenue. I think It's time to shift our focus to selling physical copies of music, performing live shows, setting up patronage systems. and selling music digitally in stores. Daniel EK and others in charge have no idea how much indie artists are struggling. Only the top 5% of artists make around $1,000 a month. In this oversaturated and stressful market, we need to change our strategy.
I like the way you think dude but the problem is: live show attendance is waining. It's an economic issue; people haven't got the money to be hanging out in venues discovering unknown bands / acts like they did in the pre-internet era (when things were cheaper).
We (the artist) must right now, redefine success and create unity. The industry is preying on us because each of us are trying to do it alone. Artists will have to lay down some ego and work together to recreate this failing situation…
Wow Damian. So much power on your words, i really hope that Daniel could listen and respond to you. Regards from an artist in Uruguay that wants to believe in Spotify
You stand up for artists and we are thankful for that Damian, I bought DK MBA and I think you are truly doing so much to help the community. The courses are super valuable to me, and also the fact that you are here speaking for the smaller artists just shows how much heart and passion you actually got for helping people succeed. Much love.
I went into this video thinking people were overreacting again, but by 5 minutes in I was on board with your POV. Wow, best sign off I’ve heard so far this year.
As an independent artist I am reaching the same conclusion that you worded perfectly, if I’m gonna do everything why don’t I get to keep everything? So here’s my solution, if your visibility on these platforms is the product of some mysterious miracle if and when it happens, the solution is to not use them at all. Create a closed environment, and manage your own distribution. Every artist can create their own website as an exclusive place for fans to access their music and merch. Keep using the social media system to promote and expand the fan base, and f*ck off to all corporate parasites that live off the life, blood, sweat and tears of those that create the magic. Much better to invest whatever money one can come up with with good marketing and eventually with a personal business manager. Than to put everything on the line and never have a penny to show for it.
I think you are spot on. It is not only equipment and promotion... it is the years and years of passionate hard work, of doubts, of investing mental and monetary resources - even harder when you have family. The whole picture is so much bigger... People want to listen to good music and it just has its price.
Helping artists make sense for Spotify. These are solid ideas. Tell us what to do, show us a real path, don't just take our potential profits. Alas... money.
Top class rant Damian. Daniel Ek's complacency just confirms what we already knew - he doesn't particularly care. It's all just free content for him and as long as we keep on providing it nothing will change.
Dude, you just hit that nail in the coffin with that line. “I’ll do anything, just tell me what I need to do.” As someone who plans on pursuing my own music career soon, it’s crazy how much it feels like it’s all on me. Especially on a budget, it can sometimes feel like I have to rely on myself and have no other choice. I’ve been lucky enough find a really good mentor with when it comes to music production and business, and everytime we talk about the business side, from what I gathered, everyone is trying to rip you off and the whole system is designed to take advantage of artists. I guess the real question is how do we as artists combat this when the whole foundation of the industry is built on the backs of starving artists?
Thank you for bringing so much awareness to this matter. There needs to be more support for the independent artists out there who are investing time and resources into creating long term music careers. There are artists serving the global community with their lives and deserve more from the streaming platforms. I honestly don’t care if paying a penny per stream makes Spotify go bankrupt. The internet at large needs to become more of a profitable place for artists to share their work and be compensated accordingly.
@@DamianKeyesI think it's both ways because I did spend a lot of not just money but time and made sacrifices in my life to even try and make a career out of this , however looking back at everything I've done Spotify is just another avenue to promote myself as an artist
I feel you Damian, I've literally been contemplating quitting producing music. I've been posting tracks on Spotify since inception and currently have single digits on my plays. I'm talking 1 play on most of my songs in the last 30 days. Obviously, I've never received a payment for my music. It's f&*(in brutal man. I'm talking 18 years of making original music. The sad part is I have followers on social media, but it's not translating into music streams or cash. Quite frankly my UA-cam channel has the same problem. Nothing's clicking at the moment. It may be time for a career change. Thanks for everything you do. I appreciate all the work you put into this.
Thank you Damian for this, your knowledge and passion is admirable in such a messed up 'music industry climate'. You seem to understand and care, which is more than what can be said about Daniel Ek.🙏
I couldn’t agree more, as a person who make music for fun, I can see that in order to make a supplement living out of this it can’t rely on avenues like spotify, all the revenue goes to the top, i hope more DIY artists will come to realize this and stop supporting these massive entities.
Just love seeing Damian being acertive af. Good job, man. If you wanna know what I think, I'm not surprised by this. I haven't in my entire life seen a single living entity not getting their values corrupted once they get too much power. This is what it is, artists always have to pave their own path anyway. I think it's a bad idea to relly too much on a platform, thinking that it will stay true to its initial core values. Things change, for the better or for worse... At the moment, Bandcamp is king for independent artists. Let's hope their ethics won't fall from grace too...
the internet is as controlled as the oil industry is... what i would have hoped for with the evolution of the web would have been artists all having their own servers and digitally broadcasting their content instead we have what we have
The skill, knowledge, time, equipment and software to create original music, AND to then also spend the ridiculous amount of time, energy and effort to produce the visuals to go along with that: WHAT PART OF THAT AMOUNTS TO "CLOSE TO ZERO"?
Well said, mate! It’s already frustrating enough being ‘all of the above’ DIY when Ek remains clueless to out plight. Once again, ‘business’ comes before ‘music’.
Appreciate that! I’m not sure I’d be very good at it but I’d defo be doing my best to help the grass roots if I were allowed some kind of consulting with them. It’s a shame as they have the power to do this so easily and Daniel Ek could be as big a legend as Dave Grohl instead of being the James Bond bad guy
@DamianKeyes You have the mindset, the experience, good ideas and the passion that it takes to be the CEO. Like Le Chiffre, this Daniel Ew should be handled by you. I will call you 008 from now on
Really appreciate your message in this video and everything you do for the artists. I could feel your genuine frustration. I have to admit that i haven't done any research yet on what Spotify might do for and with the grass root artists, but it certainly feels like the suggestions you made could be such quick wins for them at relatively low cost while it would actually be an invest into the future of the whole platform. It reminds me of what Airbnb used to do at least in the beginning, when they offered classes, etc. where they educated the hosts to take better pictures of their places, write better descriptions, etc. This helped the hosts to find customers and therefore it helped Airbnb to grow. Thanks again for all your work Damian!
Free Spotify mastering, seems like a no brainer. You're right, these corporations have counted on the small club owners to foster local talent and those owners can't survive anymore. There's no rock bands because there's nowhere to be a rock band.
This is the greatest response I have every heard. Damian offers a long list of solutions to problems that are common among all DIY artists. Way to go Damian!
Thank you so much I appreciate you. I really hope we can see change and make Ek see that he is neglecting the future artists and stars who will rebel against him and the company if he doesn’t invest in them. Which ironically would be so easy for him to do
@@DamianKeyes 20 years of time and effort into this artform...and vast amounts of money on gear and equipment...all the sacrifices made in personal life to work on music. Ek has absolutely no idea what he is talking about... Thank you for this video 🎸❤️ I have already shared it with a bunch of people
i really appreciate your genuine enthusiasm and vouching / standing up for up and coming artists. it's comforting to know that someone actually cares about us "smaller" independent artists who break their backs trying to "make it." Thank you
All the gear I bought. Subscriptions and time. Then running Ads to send people to Spotify. Just to be pushed aside for Major Artist. I haven't given up but I'm close.
This would be a great opportunity for Apple Music or Tidal (or others, really, just somebody please) to kick Spotify's ass and make things better. Artis-oriented payment model, better distribution of funds and creating a service that is for artists and their fans.
Absolutely love this video. Love the passion and totally, totally agree with the education ideas. This is an extremely important video and so hope it gets seen in the right circles.
I owned a commercial recording studio for over 20 years, I didn't charge a fee, all my equipment was free for the music shops, the bands I recorded all had free gear as well...the landlord who owned the property gave it for free...no council tax or electric, in fact no bills at all.... it was heaven, some put out albums and didn't charge a thing for them. We all went to church on Sunday to give thanks to our lord Daniel Ek. I've now teamed up with L Ron Hubbard ( He's got some great idea's) I know he's dead but when do we let reality get in the way of a good thing.
👏🏼👏🏼 ALL IN ONE TAKE! they need to hire you. man you’re so on as always. and that’s an amazing idea.. as an artist who can thank spotify for a lot of my listeners, it would be great to have a venue to play with other artists in my niche. get out of the digital world and into the world. they need to support us DIYers for creating this catalog.
On point Damien, Spotify should really give back to us smaller artists, as much as we want to give up but we can't coz most of us doesn't have a plan b, we're all in on this. Yeah we hustle on the side but please make us feel a little bit important.
Spotify has 600 million users, 95% of which are NOT LOOKING for new music or bands that their friends have never heard of. I spend almost all of my time trying to figure out how to put my music EXCLUSIVELY in front of the other 5% of the Spotify user base. I don't want follows or listens from mainstreamers because they don't come back - our fans, on the other hand, are steadily 4+ streams per listener. as far as i can tell, ALL the other DSPs just knock that off.. they are just copying Spotify's catering to the mainstream. If there was a streaming service that was focused on Indie Bands and filtered out main stream music, i would go with them in a heart beat... those are the listeners i want anyway. But there isn't one. So i find the right people in the world and steer them towards indie bands on spotify. We have released 14 singles in the last 14 months. Spotify, in supporting mainstream artists and dismissing indie bands is just playing the 80/20 rule. They'll win by ruining the little guy. In the United States this is a familiar theme.
100% !! A dedicated indie streaming service really paying artists the way they should, and listeners being able to build their playlists on different filters (genre/location/mood/poop color)
@@TrawaazRecordsI put out my own playlist. On it I feature about 20 bands each time. I have 125 bands that I work with right now. They're all small indie bands with about the same number of followers or slightly more than my band has. Their music sounds like mine... Classic rock or alternative and I listen to everyone before I start working with them. They all have Facebook pages that reflect that they're serious about doing business and they promote themselves regularly and are part of the Indy community. They all have email addresses. The reason I pick those bands is because I know that their followers are the most likely people to like my band. I put out the playlist and everybody shares it on their Facebook page. Each band has about two or 3,000 followers. If there's 20 bands on a page and that means 40 to 60,000 people will see that playlist and make the choice whether or not they want to listen to it. All 60,000 of them are people that follow small indie bands that make music that sound like me. And all the bands are bands I can trust to promote each other and the list.
@@TrawaazRecordsthe problem is that no one is using mp3s anymore… for the moment. Bandcamp with a better UI and a fair streaming service would be awesome
Kinda silly to blame Spotify for this when the vast majority of listeners has never and will never care about small Indie artists, no mattwr the medium. That's just the cold, honest truth.
Some thoughts of my own here, I don't know whether any of this was meant or implied by his tweet but i think it raises a question around the nature of 'content', how we consume it and whether a piece of music is something we should simply regard as 'content'. How do we value the content we consume? If measured simply in terms of attention and time spent consuming then all content is of similar 'value' and thus the cost of creation is as low as what it takes to make a tiktok video or basic podcast. If we acknowledge that content is valued by other means such as intrinsic qualities then where does music fit in this heirarchy? While I would put it pretty high up (perhaps higher than an average consumer might), there is for me a clear difference between the value of an album by an artist i enjoy than that of a mixed playlist of new releases. I'm not sure where music streaming fits in the common perception of a content hierarchy but it certainly seems to be far less respected and valued than movie/tv streaming which is a shame. Arguably Spotify's push to diversify into podcasts/audiobooks etc has also had the effect of further devaluing its music library. Should music be regarded more as an experience than merely a subset of 'content'? Perhaps, but that seems to be more like an ideal of the past than a vision of the future.
Hey Damian. Thanks for this video. We need more people like yourself with a following and a voice to point these things out. It’s become so tough out there for grass roots artists. I totally agree with you that Spotify could be doing a WHOLE lot more to be nurturing people at the beginning of their musical journey. Most successful streaming services, Disney , Netflix etc at least are investing in their own programming. Making shows. Spotify produces nothing in the music sector. Yes they invest in podcasters once they’re already huge. Musicians always seem to be the ones never invited to the party. I wonder why more artists who’ve had success aren’t shouting about this from the rooftops.
Thank you for speaking out on behalf of all of us. These are the things that can attempt to bring awareness, so are always so important. I've always thought "Spotify venues" has always been such an obvious thing, especially here in the UK where so many small venues are getting shut down or failing. All the venues need are the Spotify name and good advertising and they'd be thriving, making money for Spotify, and developing the smallest artist and the music scene that Spotify can then claim as they've played and been a part of their venue. It sounds so simple yet here we are... A big shame
If corporations can get something for nothing, they will. This is just like outsourcing and offshoring - minimizing the amount of money going to the people who make things happen.
A lot of great ideas, Damian, but let's be honest: Spotify is a discovery platform and is comfortable for the consumer, however, Spotify have been constantly trying to water down the deal for artists because artists are just as much the cash cow as the paying subscribers; and he has learnt that no matter how badly he treats the artists, the majority will keep using the platform (in all fairness, so do we, it's pretty much a necessary evil). As far as we're aware, he's not even re-investing into the music industry. He's cutting jobs at Spotify itself and as great as your ideas are, if Daniel Ek gave half a f*** he'd have thought of it himself and acted on it rather than pouring more money into companies like Helsing AI, military defence.
I have gained so much respect for you after watching this video thank you for being the voice for us, everything you said is just pure facts. Unbelievably hard as an upcoming independent artist and they do not make it any easier.
Amen to every word you've said here. EK clearly doesn't give two sh#ts about music. He loves money & doesn't hesitate ripping off us musicians at every opportunity! It maddens me n frustrates me. Things need to change. Sadly I doubt he ever will change his business model. The only way that would impact on him is if people exclude spotify from the platforms that are fair and actually help artists...
Great video! I have my issues with Spotify and his comment just made me start rethinking strategies again. I try to stay positive about Spotify, but things like this make it difficult. Thanks for being honest Damian. What Spotify needs to be careful with is just as they were a solution for the music industry issues back in the day, someone out there will eventually create a solution for the issues Spotify has today. And that my friend, is a Billion dollar loss.
This impassioned and honest view on Spotify and the prat who owns it Daniel Ek and what he's said recently is spot on. Calling music "content" and saying its easy to make and costs almost zero now!? 100% Agree with you on where is the infrastructure? The education and opportunities for funding etc. People like us are doing it. I run a community music and performing arts session in my home town and I have had to fight for every penny or in many cases pay for it myself. To provide a space for 15 to 21 year olds to come and try music or any other related skills like sound etc. FOR FREE. Because I give a shit and want to pay it foeward aftwr adecent career in music myself. Unlike Ek. Consumers need to understand supporting Spotify isn't supporting the grass roots, it isn't supporting the art to regenerate generation after generation. Support artists directly. Especially at grass roots. And when I say artists I mean not just musicians but writers, poets, dancers, painters, graphic artists, film makers... The list goes on and on. And these people are what often make life bareable in difficult times. Provide commentary on society. Honestly. F**K Spotify and F**K Daniel Eck.
@@RealHomeRecording No one asked you for your dumb opinion either, yet here you are. What you would rather? Nobody did anything? I do it because I want to. Because I want to see the next generation come through and have opportunities that are becoming less and less accessible because the grass roots has no funding, no support and Ek the out of touch billionaire thinks its all just content and easy and free to do. Invest in the next generation and grass roots or eventually there will be no content left for Ek to take advantage of. You don't get a forest with a high beautiful canopy without nurturing the roots and soil below.
You can talk to the consumers and explain to them how Spotify is bad and how artists are getting f* along the way, they just don't care. Try it with your friends. It's eye-opening really. They won't stop using the service. Their own convenience is more important.
Growing up with zero knowledge of the music industry, this channel has changed my life. It’s also worth noting that… as an independent artist…. This concept of “making money off streams” literally seems silly to me, and if Spotify could put actual programs together that meant something to artists- that would really be a game changer !!
Music industry just like the film industry, news media and everyone else have fully switched to giving the customer what the customer already wants. That's why everything is dying
Thank you so much, hopefully it wasn’t misplaced and I wasn’t talking for all musicians. It it felt like such an unnecessary dig at creatives for no reason. Feels like his target audience is now investors and celebs
The music industry is alive and kicking in the sense it has always been a ruthless money making machine. Spotify is no different. Artists can put their music on Spotify but don't expect to get paid for it, unless you're great at marketing. No point in arguing for better prospects for artists on Spotify, as that won't be very effective. However, if millions of artists realised they are worth little to nothing on Spotify (except the biggest stars), they could do great stuff on UA-cam and have a platform like Bandcamp that actually would value your music! And it would pay far far better. The fact that Spotify gives you such a small return for your music, spells out quite clearly how they 'value' you as an artist and your contribution to their platform. If the masses of artists decided/threatened to move their music to another platform, I think Spotify might get the message and be more persuaded to see more value or worth in each and every artist that makes up Spotify and therefore be prepared to reflect that value in how they pay artists! No artists, no Spotify, no revenue🤗.
real asf. I teared up a lil when u talked cuz i fr be putting in soul but nobody even sees me. Be convincing myself if i grab a lil more money ill have time to be chronically online and pay for people to play my shit on they playform and run some ads maybe then ill finally see some love to my shit. It be disheartening fs. Then mfs at the top just be talkin like foh
The Education needs to be directed to the consumer I believe. We used to spend our money on the music that we wanted back in the day, and now for $10 a month as you said, the consumer has unlimited access to all the artists on the platform. How do you split $10 amongst millions of artists? Clearly these companies saw the opportunity to make money and they did it, not for us, but for them. We need to find a way to educate the consumer AGAIN to spend directly on the artist, can that get expensive? yes, but we used to do it, why can't these new generations? All these Corps are doing is training the masses to spend in the wrong place.
![Chris Langan - The Interview THEY Didn't Want You To See - CTMU [Full Version; Timestamps]](/img/n.gif)
Please let Daniel Ek know what you think in the comments. Let’s try and make some change!
I surely did, lol.
Lars was right.
I figured that each of the songs I have written have cost $400 CAD each to mix, master, and release. Then there's the time spent learning the instruments both hard and software. Not a huge amount. But it is when your income isn't exactly massive!
I genuinely hope you read this @Damiankeyes, a great video as always. I totally agree but I would suggest a look at an even bigger picture:
My two cents: It's not just a Spotify problem. This is an intrinsic problem with platform capitalism. We can apply this to Facebook, UA-cam, Steam, Netflix....anywhere where products or content are delivered online on a mass scale.
Companies like Spotify have essentially have gained monopoly power and own a kind of digital infrastructure that is essential for musicians to have a career at all. The reason billionaires like Ek do not invest into the artists and the community and the scene (i.e the people actually creating the product/art and doing the work)....
...is because under this economic model he has very little incentive to do so.
Spotify does two basic things:
1) owns a giant bank of servers
2) delivers a consumer interface to access the library of content within those servers.
With all other streaming services offering essentially the same library, what sets them apart is the interface and delivery method. This is where their main "innovation" really takes place, to make things better for the end user.
But take the latter away and what we have is nothing more than what amounts to digital landlordism. Spotify owns the space where music is consumed, and collects RENT on that space which they deliver to their shareholders. Market mechanisms have very little sway in this scenario, as Spotify has monopoly power and sets the terms of commerce.
If Spotify invested in venues, community, education etc, would that ACTUALLY see returns for them? It could potentially increase the quality and quantity of music being uploaded sure. But they a monopoly. The economic incentive to invest in the artists creating the content under this model will ALWAYS be lesser than the incentive to deliver short term profits for shareholders, who want to see returns, and want to see them quickly as possible. From their perspective, investing in the actual people doing the work is simply a waste of money when artists are already doing this work for them for free. Fiduciary responsibility actually precludes them from investing in artists.
I'll say it again. Fiduciary responsibility actually precludes them from investing in artists. Trying to appeal to people like Ek to "give back" to the industry and the artform is utterly pointless - because they will not do it under this model. They have no incentive other than the kindness of their heart, which as you have established in this video - they do not have.
This is why Ek invests instead into weapons tech, energy generation, buying stadiums etc. People like him have a much greater incentive to buy up existing assets and generate new rental income on those, than to invest in assets they already have, or to create new ones.
What's the solution?
Online platforms are not going away. But if we had the political will, we could change the way their businesses operate.
Look at a video sharing platform like Nebula. Under their model, the creators and artists sharing the content ARE the shareholders.
There are no unaccountable CEOs or shareholders sucking money out of the system and introducing the perverse short-term incentives I've detailed above. Everyone who makes money on that platform IS a creator, IS somebody actually *working* and creating. I.e people who actually CARE about the artform and about the community and quality of work. The creators get to decide together what direction the company takes and where profits gets invested.
Now imagine if Spotify was like Nebula. This is the only scenario where I can foresee that Spotify would actually invest in the artists and the industry. Because the people making the decisions, and reaping the returns, are the people making the art in the first place.
Start by leaving/boycotting Spotify
The fact that Spotify doesn't allow direct connection between artists and fans on their own platform speaks volumes.
YESSS I literally just commented this. They absolutely fuck up on this. Let us get the emails of our "super listeners" to build our communities. Glad someone else is seeing this.
Exactly. And the funny thing is, if they did they could get so much more money!
This would make a huge difference!
@@ItsJustAdrean it isn't about money, it's about stock value of the company. Money = taxes. Company taxes, payroll taxes, now borrowing on stock evaluations is unrealized gains. So using their stock value to purchase other companies in mergers or buying rights to stream shows. Brings up their stock price. Stock stock stock, unrealized gains gains gains.
I already put in a request for a spotify social media type of app ages ago, idk if they even care
An old quote comes to mind: "Musician: Someone who puts $5,000 worth of gear into a $500 car to drive 100 miles to do a $50 gig..." -we have never been respected by the industry, or the fans for that matter.
Facts here
This reminded me of my college day. Most gigs don't really make money, we just wanted to have fun. Being a professional musician was never an option. We don't really play music now.
Well said👊💙
@@Marta1Bucklol yup that’s how i ended up working In wastewater..4 guys, $300 for 3 hours of music, 2 hours at least of lumping rigs and drums, hour to set up and an hour to break down. Forget about food and travel..all for like 30 people to show up at a smelly ass bar/club..i literally would rather work in the sewer
Absolutely. People talking like this is some new phenomenon 🙄
It's not the first time he refers to music as content. He is just being true to himself. He doesn't care about music or artists
Spotify is more than just music though. But yeah he should have just said music, podcasts and audiobooks cuz the word content has a negative connotation in this context.
Compared to music, podcasts cost "close to zero" to make.
@@RealHomeRecording For me it's ok he said it that way because that's what he thinks. At least he is being honest.
Categories are kind of mixed up. There is music that is content (and I guess that is going to be mostly made with AI pretty soon) and there is Music as an art form which is what I care about
@@100DollarHeadache Yeah, production cost is lower but it is not zero. Zero is what you get from streaming if you don't reach their threshold for payment
@AdamFontenet Making music "is free" if you are tapping your chest and singing out loud, and you never took a lesson in your life and you don't value you time.
Totally agree on the gear / expectation part.
The fact that the Music Industry has been swallowed by the Entertainment world and logic, is (in my humble opinion) central to this matter
with the cost of hosting and distributing music being zero these days, I’m glad to hear that Spotify will no longer charge anything for its services
Ek is not an artist, he is a businessman, he only cares about making and saving money
sherlock
The problem with many musicians is that they have no business acumen. And yes Eck is yuck. We as musicians can't defend ourselves if we don't understand those trying to take advantage of us.
Greedy bastards - Motörhead
a shady* businessman
Never met or know of a ‘talentless’ BIZZNESSMEN that isn’t a tosser.
i made more music contacts in the myspace days because of one feature: being able to search artists by genre in certain locations, including my local area. that did more help for my musical "career" than anything else in the last 20 years.
I use MySpace when I want to spend some time on my own
THIS IS SO FUCKING POINT ON DAMIAN, I HAD TO GET UP AND WALK AROUND THE ROOM!!! THANK YOU A MILLION TIMES OVER. I LEFT SPOTIFY WITH MY NEW RELEASE.
I really appreciate that, thank you so much. Let’s hope things change and hopefully Daniel Ek should do the right thing and invest in infrastructure
I can really feel your anger and passion. Yes this was disrespectful to artists especially new unestablished ones who are now excluded from any Spotify pay until they reach a threshold. I totally agree Daniel Ek should be doing more to champion artists and create infrastructure and maybe even grants. I for example have enough songs 13:14 for a second album but at 84 on a very limited income do not have the funds and it will take quite some time to raise that money. He is ignoring all the expenses that go into producing music by saying the cost of content is almost zero.
I'd rather have my music being pirated than giving any money to this guy and his company. Spotify is pretty much a scam and Daniel Ek is a super villain. You even defending them or seeing any "pros" is like a victim in an abusive relationship defending their abuser. It's madness.
I honestly can't see what the pros are besides the convenience. But then it's convenient to stream stuff on UA-cam. Or just rip your CDs to your phone or summat
I couldn't agree more! it was kinda sad to watch this video. I feel horrible for anyone who still support this evil scam, it shows how pathetic things are at the moment. But I have hope for the future, a post-streaming world is around the corner. Lets all keep creating quality music with all our heart and soul. These blood sucking dorks who feeds off art in the dark will have to face the light one day.. and it will burn!
I agree
That dude is a fucking vampire. Literally living off other people's energy.
Yes, the 6 figures I've poured into hardware, software, a home studio, and the thousands of hours I've poured into my craft was simply to make "CONTENT" and it was actually no cost at all to me!
Sure but I also make music whic less thaen a grand poured in and some do it for free... Which was his point.
@@GreenBlueWalkthrough My collection took years to gather, and I did use a cheap DAW and free VSTs for many years, but there's still always an initial financial and time investment
@@jon_of_the_shred See I'd argue this kind of half proves him right though. These days, those 6 figures is compressed into a few grand of a laptop and cheap plugins, plus the much lower cost of quality instruments. That few grand is still a lot of money to many and he does sound very out of touch, but it's not not anywhere near as scarce as studio time used to be.
@@martyshwaartz971 Oh no, I definitely agree we're absolutely spoiled with ease of recording and access to amazing hardware and software. Home studios are so much more attainable nowadays, I'm definitely an extreme example of someone who just loves to collect all kinds of music software
but there should be right to equality, everybody should be able to create content of their choice and share to the public................
Of course to end the monopoly of large players, what i see is spotify will become like youtube and there's nothing wrong in it, UA-camrs like mr beast who have billions dollar setup grows on setus so does a travel blogger with nothing more than a bike and i-phone.
Spotify/streaming customers need to know that when these streaming services are out of business they loose their complete music collection on these platforms. Honestly streaming music is not the way to go as a music lover.
That would be a wake up call however I just think there will be a new boss similar to the old boss. I think if a DSP like Tidal or Deezer invest in infrastructure they could become hero’s in the whole industry
@@DamianKeyesin my dream, I wish somebody with giant resources, giant money, loves music & musician and made something which really pro-thinking about (especially the poor) musicians
@@mojito6629 Still I think bandcamp is the best we have sofar
@@DamianKeyes the new boss, same as the old boss. We won't be fooled again!
Ummm nobody's under any illusion that it ain't so? And nobody thinks or talks about their Spotify as a "music collection" lol. Kind of a boomer comment tbh
Unfortunately for all of us watching this, it’s been dead for a while and we applauded it.
Not if they're able to make money off of you still
Everyone makes money off a band except the band. Have to buy gear, hire mixers, pay for band photos, pay for gig photos, buy art for albums and singles, get a logo made, pay for music videos. All those people making money off the band while the band doesn't make shit.
Yep on and on until there are no more bands. It's already happening
Bands make money off touring and merch. If they wrote their own songs they make money off publishing. They get master licenses for performing music that’s placed in film/tv/commercials. They get sync licenses for writing the music in film/tv/commercials. Sync and live shows are the lifeboats of the music biz. The sync lifeboat is shrinking. The live music lifeboat is still floating. I was a recording engineer for 20 years. I slaved to get better at my craft. I wasn’t some leach making money off a band. I was providing a service in exchange for money. Maybe the band could have spent years dedicated to engineering so they could have tracked and mixed themselves. You’re take is embarrassingly simplistic and ignorant
@@jaykay6412 the vast majority of bands won't be in any TV shows or make a dime off any of that crap except maybe merch. Breaking even or going in the hole on touring expenses. I've been a musician for 35 years, you're way out of touch working in a bubble and your smug insults mean shit.
@@jaykay6412 Touring is more expensive than ever, bands don't even get to sell merch without giving a 20% cut to the venue; lucky to break even on food transportation and lodging. Selling music and earning royalties is not a thing for almost all bands since music is consumed for free. The handful of musicians making 30 second jingles for commercials and recording theme music for sitcoms aren't paying for album art, mixing, photography, or music videos. If you're going to be smug at least make it relevant.
@@jaykay6412 - No one is saying that engineers were just leeching off of bands, the OP simply stated that the only ones making money from music are those who supply services and products to musicians, while musicians rarely can make money from their music. I work a full time job, take care of my elderly Mom, and also write and record my own music, and mix and master it too. I'm far from an expert at those things however, as there's simply not enough time to become an expert mixing engineer if I want to also have some free time to write and record my own music as well.
The only way a low popularity musician can make money these days is if he/she can somehow find the time to become great at writing, recording, mixing, and mastering their own music (to save money), as well as learn to do all their own artwork for covers and logos, and then learn to do great videos on their own as well. It's a tall order.
Not to mention with the cost of living increasing its just unsustainable for most artists to even dedicate themselves solely to their craft.
Video is spot on though Damian. As a musician myself it’s painful to see how lost this industry has become.
everyone together now: Music is NOT Content! fucking content, I hate that word.
Music comes from the soul, and is the most beautiful representation of humanity. Music is a language that crosses all cultures and borders. Music is the heartbeat of the universe. Music is the motion that moves time forward. Music can bring peace and fuel a revolution.
totally with you there, Dave.
Its crazy how the system tries to dumb down the power of music i guess its for a reason🤐
To be fair, most of what's out there is just content-nothing special about it, and could have been made by any uneducated amateur. It's filler for the platform, serving no real purpose other than numbing our brains and destroying our souls. Sure, there’s good music out there, but let’s not pretend all music has some divine, beautiful quality that reflects humanity. A lot of it is pretty much garbage, made for a quick buck, and will be forgotten in a few years.
If the cost of creating content is close to zero, then just sitting back after pressing a button to release it must be absolute zero.
DIRECT TO FAN is the ONLY future for the diy independent artist! So many artists are now choosing not to use Spotify or ANY streaming platform. Spotify and others streaming platforms are now the gatekeepers and take all the money without giving anything back. They are strangling the music industry slowly.
Completely agree!
I’ve been watching you for a couple years now, but the passion in this just made me respect you 10x more, thanks damien
I really appreciate you saying that it really means a lot. I think I feel personally hurt as I stick up for Spotify often and this felt so unnecessary
@@DamianKeyes yeah man that’s totally understandable, keep up the awesome work and I’ll be here to watch it!
a CEO of somethin as spotify, they should know how much time went into almost every track, album, EP, effort, money, etc just to create all these and then make a statement like this is mindblowin to me
It really felt like a disrespect to all of the people who should look up to him didn’t it. He can do so much more even if it’s not paying more per stream. I feel it’s time one of the DSP’s builds infrastructure. What do you think?
@@DamianKeyes I agree, I feel like I speak for every artist who is small or like me, haven't finished or released a track yet, can make it feel very discouraging to see that tweet from the CEO of Spotify itself.
‘Should’ good luck 👍
I can bet he's much more of a Silicon Valley tech guy than a music guy. Saying something as wild as "music is basically content" means he's way far gone.
@@randman21 100% agree
Thank you for saying what we’re all thinking and feeling. The music industry is a win/lose situation right now. Companies win and artists lose. It should be a win/win and Spotify would make so much more money if they actually invest in artists because without us, they wouldn’t have any music. WE are Spotify. NOT Daniel or any of these executives.
I really appreciate that, I didn’t want to speak on behalf of musicians and artists but this was so disrespectful. Let’s hope he feels the backlash
Really well said! You are so spot on. Many thanks for saying up loud what few in the Music industry dare to say. Many thanks for standing up for all struggling artists and upcoming stars. Damian, that was so good! Hope he will listen to you and do something about it.
Damian, YOU are a ROCKSTAR!!! Thank you for all you do to support independent musicians/artists/creators!!!!
Creating “timeless” music costs money!
Absolutely, it was at best a clumsy unthought out comment but at worst it shows Daniel as out of touch and uncaring about musicians out of the top tier artists
@@DamianKeyes it’s a shame that Spotify doesn’t seem to want to move with the times and adapt their service to benefit the many indie/unsigned artists!
@@cervomusic well said!
And takes time!
@@christinebairdmusic came here to say this. It takes a tremendous amount of time to create good music.
the $100 million exclusive deal Spotify signed with Joe Rogan in 2020, when most artists' livelihoods had blown up from the pandemic, while claiming being unable to pay artists dirt really was disgusting. They've since signed another $250 million deal....
good on you for calling them out on blowing their money on stupid advertising, too. If they were smarter, and took care of artists to some iota as you mentioned, the smaller artists themselves would be singing spotify's praises and doing far more effective marketing for them rather skippable, obnoxious ads.
Artists need to stop playing the game that Spotify and the "new music industry" want us to play. I won't be pumping out content daily even if its free. Creating music involves significant time and money spent on recording, songwriting, rehearsing, and performing.
The current system primarily benefits major labels and artists with substantial backing/teams (who most of the time help creating content). With the support of labels and production companies, DSPs make these artists' songs easier to find through algorithms and editorials, and other playlists which are often influenced by payola. (Which helpa improve the algorythm)
Independent artists, however, must rely on ads and spend money on other methods that generate little to no revenue. I think It's time to shift our focus to selling physical copies of music, performing live shows, setting up patronage systems. and selling music digitally in stores.
Daniel EK and others in charge have no idea how much indie artists are struggling. Only the top 5% of artists make around $1,000 a month. In this oversaturated and stressful market, we need to change our strategy.
Spotify? No! Spot on actually! Time we stopped allowing these wolves to profit off the back of our talent.
🧂
I like the way you think dude but the problem is: live show attendance is waining. It's an economic issue; people haven't got the money to be hanging out in venues discovering unknown bands / acts like they did in the pre-internet era (when things were cheaper).
We (the artist) must right now, redefine success and create unity. The industry is preying on us because each of us are trying to do it alone. Artists will have to lay down some ego and work together to recreate this failing situation…
I agree. Somebody has to scold Ek and open his eyes to what’s really going on.
Wow Damian. So much power on your words, i really hope that Daniel could listen and respond to you. Regards from an artist in Uruguay that wants to believe in Spotify
You stand up for artists and we are thankful for that Damian, I bought DK MBA and I think you are truly doing so much to help the community. The courses are super valuable to me, and also the fact that you are here speaking for the smaller artists just shows how much heart and passion you actually got for helping people succeed. Much love.
I don't promote my music on Spotify anymore. They clearly are trying to NOT pay me. Why bother with them.
I went into this video thinking people were overreacting again, but by 5 minutes in I was on board with your POV. Wow, best sign off I’ve heard so far this year.
As an independent artist I am reaching the same conclusion that you worded perfectly, if I’m gonna do everything why don’t I get to keep everything?
So here’s my solution, if your visibility on these platforms is the product of some mysterious miracle if and when it happens, the solution is to not use them at all. Create a closed environment, and manage your own distribution.
Every artist can create their own website as an exclusive place for fans to access their music and merch. Keep using the social media system to promote and expand the fan base, and f*ck off to all corporate parasites that live off the life, blood, sweat and tears of those that create the magic.
Much better to invest whatever money one can come up with with good marketing and eventually with a personal business manager. Than to put everything on the line and never have a penny to show for it.
The most heartfelt video you've ever put out. Thank you dearly for saying this. If nothing else it means so much to us at the bottom of the tree.🙏
Oh man you got me fired up. Spot on with what we are all thinking. Thanks for being a voice for us little guys!
Thank you so much, I’ve spent my life working with up coming artists and this felt like a stab to the heart. Hopefully things can change 😊❤️
Well said.
I think you are spot on. It is not only equipment and promotion... it is the years and years of passionate hard work, of doubts, of investing mental and monetary resources - even harder when you have family. The whole picture is so much bigger... People want to listen to good music and it just has its price.
Helping artists make sense for Spotify. These are solid ideas. Tell us what to do, show us a real path, don't just take our potential profits. Alas... money.
Great rant my man! I love your message, I love your passion! Listen up DEk, this man knows what he’s talking about
Top class rant Damian. Daniel Ek's complacency just confirms what we already knew - he doesn't particularly care. It's all just free content for him and as long as we keep on providing it nothing will change.
Agreed 100% , I couldn't have said it better myself Damian! Massive respect earned from me my dude 🤘🏻
Dude, you just hit that nail in the coffin with that line. “I’ll do anything, just tell me what I need to do.” As someone who plans on pursuing my own music career soon, it’s crazy how much it feels like it’s all on me. Especially on a budget, it can sometimes feel like I have to rely on myself and have no other choice. I’ve been lucky enough find a really good mentor with when it comes to music production and business, and everytime we talk about the business side, from what I gathered, everyone is trying to rip you off and the whole system is designed to take advantage of artists. I guess the real question is how do we as artists combat this when the whole foundation of the industry is built on the backs of starving artists?
Thank you for bringing so much awareness to this matter. There needs to be more support for the independent artists out there who are investing time and resources into creating long term music careers. There are artists serving the global community with their lives and deserve more from the streaming platforms. I honestly don’t care if paying a penny per stream makes Spotify go bankrupt. The internet at large needs to become more of a profitable place for artists to share their work and be compensated accordingly.
Bro is always spitting real game I just lag to put the work in, learned alot from this man. 💯
Really appreciate that, what did you think about Daniel Eks tweet, would love to know
@@DamianKeyesI think it's both ways because I did spend a lot of not just money but time and made sacrifices in my life to even try and make a career out of this , however looking back at everything I've done Spotify is just another avenue to promote myself as an artist
I feel you Damian, I've literally been contemplating quitting producing music. I've been posting tracks on Spotify since inception and currently have single digits on my plays. I'm talking 1 play on most of my songs in the last 30 days. Obviously, I've never received a payment for my music. It's f&*(in brutal man. I'm talking 18 years of making original music. The sad part is I have followers on social media, but it's not translating into music streams or cash. Quite frankly my UA-cam channel has the same problem. Nothing's clicking at the moment. It may be time for a career change. Thanks for everything you do. I appreciate all the work you put into this.
Surely this is why we should be steering people toward platforms like Bandcamp. Let the greedy corporations dry up.
Thank you Damian for this, your knowledge and passion is admirable in such a messed up 'music industry climate'. You seem to understand and care, which is more than what can be said about Daniel Ek.🙏
I couldn’t agree more, as a person who make music for fun, I can see that in order to make a supplement living out of this it can’t rely on avenues like spotify, all the revenue goes to the top, i hope more DIY artists will come to realize this and stop supporting these massive entities.
Just love seeing Damian being acertive af. Good job, man.
If you wanna know what I think, I'm not surprised by this. I haven't in my entire life seen a single living entity not getting their values corrupted once they get too much power.
This is what it is, artists always have to pave their own path anyway. I think it's a bad idea to relly too much on a platform, thinking that it will stay true to its initial core values. Things change, for the better or for worse...
At the moment, Bandcamp is king for independent artists. Let's hope their ethics won't fall from grace too...
the internet is as controlled as the oil industry is...
what i would have hoped for with the evolution of the web would have been artists all having their own servers and digitally broadcasting their content
instead we have what we have
well said bro! respect!
The skill, knowledge, time, equipment and software to create original music, AND to then also spend the ridiculous amount of time, energy and effort to produce the visuals to go along with that:
WHAT PART OF THAT AMOUNTS TO "CLOSE TO ZERO"?
Well said, mate!
It’s already frustrating enough being ‘all of the above’ DIY when Ek remains clueless to out plight.
Once again, ‘business’ comes before ‘music’.
Damian Keyes for president!! (Of Spotify)
Appreciate that! I’m not sure I’d be very good at it but I’d defo be doing my best to help the grass roots if I were allowed some kind of consulting with them. It’s a shame as they have the power to do this so easily and Daniel Ek could be as big a legend as Dave Grohl instead of being the James Bond bad guy
@DamianKeyes You have the mindset, the experience, good ideas and the passion that it takes to be the CEO.
Like Le Chiffre, this Daniel Ew should be handled by you.
I will call you 008 from now on
That would actually be a very good buisness move. And would improve life on this planet for artists and music lovers alike.
Really appreciate your message in this video and everything you do for the artists. I could feel your genuine frustration.
I have to admit that i haven't done any research yet on what Spotify might do for and with the grass root artists, but it certainly feels like the suggestions you made could be such quick wins for them at relatively low cost while it would actually be an invest into the future of the whole platform.
It reminds me of what Airbnb used to do at least in the beginning, when they offered classes, etc. where they educated the hosts to take better pictures of their places, write better descriptions, etc. This helped the hosts to find customers and therefore it helped Airbnb to grow.
Thanks again for all your work Damian!
Free Spotify mastering, seems like a no brainer. You're right, these corporations have counted on the small club owners to foster local talent and those owners can't survive anymore. There's no rock bands because there's nowhere to be a rock band.
This is the greatest response I have every heard. Damian offers a long list of solutions to problems that are common among all DIY artists. Way to go Damian!
THANK YOU DAMIAN!!! ❤❤❤
Thank you so much I appreciate you. I really hope we can see change and make Ek see that he is neglecting the future artists and stars who will rebel against him and the company if he doesn’t invest in them. Which ironically would be so easy for him to do
@@DamianKeyes 20 years of time and effort into this artform...and vast amounts of money on gear and equipment...all the sacrifices made in personal life to work on music. Ek has absolutely no idea what he is talking about...
Thank you for this video 🎸❤️
I have already shared it with a bunch of people
i really appreciate your genuine enthusiasm and vouching / standing up for up and coming artists. it's comforting to know that someone actually cares about us "smaller" independent artists who break their backs trying to "make it." Thank you
All the gear I bought. Subscriptions and time. Then running Ads to send people to Spotify. Just to be pushed aside for Major Artist. I haven't given up but I'm close.
Thanks for your statement !
Thanks for your support !
And the great ideas !
Ek doesn't give a fk about artists and music. That's always been obvious.
VERY WELL SAID… and a great expression of the frustration all of us DIY artists are experiencing. Thank you
Well done! So grateful for your eloquence !
This would be a great opportunity for Apple Music or Tidal (or others, really, just somebody please) to kick Spotify's ass and make things better. Artis-oriented payment model, better distribution of funds and creating a service that is for artists and their fans.
Amazon music is already better. They pay more, dont require X amount of listeners, and actually are on top of their statistics
Absolutely love this video. Love the passion and totally, totally agree with the education ideas. This is an extremely important video and so hope it gets seen in the right circles.
I owned a commercial recording studio for over 20 years, I didn't charge a fee, all my equipment was free for the music shops, the bands I recorded all had free gear as well...the landlord who owned the property gave it for free...no council tax or electric, in fact no bills at all.... it was heaven, some put out albums and didn't charge a thing for them. We all went to church on Sunday to give thanks to our lord Daniel Ek. I've now teamed up with L Ron Hubbard ( He's got some great idea's) I know he's dead but when do we let reality get in the way of a good thing.
🤣
🩷
👏🏼👏🏼 ALL IN ONE TAKE! they need to hire you. man you’re so on as always. and that’s an amazing idea.. as an artist who can thank spotify for a lot of my listeners, it would be great to have a venue to play with other artists in my niche. get out of the digital world and into the world. they need to support us DIYers for creating this catalog.
“Anger is a gift” - Rage Against The Machine
Been watching your videos for 6 years at least. This hit the nail on the head. People should be angry.
On point Damien, Spotify should really give back to us smaller artists, as much as we want to give up but we can't coz most of us doesn't have a plan b, we're all in on this. Yeah we hustle on the side but please make us feel a little bit important.
Spotify has 600 million users, 95% of which are NOT LOOKING for new music or bands that their friends have never heard of. I spend almost all of my time trying to figure out how to put my music EXCLUSIVELY in front of the other 5% of the Spotify user base. I don't want follows or listens from mainstreamers because they don't come back - our fans, on the other hand, are steadily 4+ streams per listener. as far as i can tell, ALL the other DSPs just knock that off.. they are just copying Spotify's catering to the mainstream. If there was a streaming service that was focused on Indie Bands and filtered out main stream music, i would go with them in a heart beat... those are the listeners i want anyway. But there isn't one. So i find the right people in the world and steer them towards indie bands on spotify. We have released 14 singles in the last 14 months. Spotify, in supporting mainstream artists and dismissing indie bands is just playing the 80/20 rule. They'll win by ruining the little guy. In the United States this is a familiar theme.
Bandcamp. not sure about the streaming part tho
100% !! A dedicated indie streaming service really paying artists the way they should, and listeners being able to build their playlists on different filters (genre/location/mood/poop color)
@@TrawaazRecordsI put out my own playlist. On it I feature about 20 bands each time. I have 125 bands that I work with right now. They're all small indie bands with about the same number of followers or slightly more than my band has. Their music sounds like mine... Classic rock or alternative and I listen to everyone before I start working with them. They all have Facebook pages that reflect that they're serious about doing business and they promote themselves regularly and are part of the Indy community. They all have email addresses. The reason I pick those bands is because I know that their followers are the most likely people to like my band. I put out the playlist and everybody shares it on their Facebook page. Each band has about two or 3,000 followers. If there's 20 bands on a page and that means 40 to 60,000 people will see that playlist and make the choice whether or not they want to listen to it. All 60,000 of them are people that follow small indie bands that make music that sound like me. And all the bands are bands I can trust to promote each other and the list.
@@TrawaazRecordsthe problem is that no one is using mp3s anymore… for the moment. Bandcamp with a better UI and a fair streaming service would be awesome
Kinda silly to blame Spotify for this when the vast majority of listeners has never and will never care about small Indie artists, no mattwr the medium. That's just the cold, honest truth.
Completely agree with you, there's so much cost to making music in every possible circumstance. As for Spotify, it should be a non-profit.
Some thoughts of my own here, I don't know whether any of this was meant or implied by his tweet but i think it raises a question around the nature of 'content', how we consume it and whether a piece of music is something we should simply regard as 'content'.
How do we value the content we consume? If measured simply in terms of attention and time spent consuming then all content is of similar 'value' and thus the cost of creation is as low as what it takes to make a tiktok video or basic podcast. If we acknowledge that content is valued by other means such as intrinsic qualities then where does music fit in this heirarchy? While I would put it pretty high up (perhaps higher than an average consumer might), there is for me a clear difference between the value of an album by an artist i enjoy than that of a mixed playlist of new releases.
I'm not sure where music streaming fits in the common perception of a content hierarchy but it certainly seems to be far less respected and valued than movie/tv streaming which is a shame. Arguably Spotify's push to diversify into podcasts/audiobooks etc has also had the effect of further devaluing its music library.
Should music be regarded more as an experience than merely a subset of 'content'? Perhaps, but that seems to be more like an ideal of the past than a vision of the future.
Hey Damian. Thanks for this video. We need more people like yourself with a following and a voice to point these things out. It’s become so tough out there for grass roots artists. I totally agree with you that Spotify could be doing a WHOLE lot more to be nurturing people at the beginning of their musical journey. Most successful streaming services, Disney , Netflix etc at least are investing in their own programming. Making shows. Spotify produces nothing in the music sector. Yes they invest in podcasters
once they’re already huge. Musicians always seem to be the ones never invited to the party. I wonder why more artists who’ve had success aren’t shouting about this from the rooftops.
damian knows exactly what his followers want to hear, but that wont change a thing
I love you for this! Thank you for standing up for us and being honest!!
So well said. If the whole industry acted in unison to boycott, the cat could be put back in the bag.
Thank you for speaking out on behalf of all of us. These are the things that can attempt to bring awareness, so are always so important. I've always thought "Spotify venues" has always been such an obvious thing, especially here in the UK where so many small venues are getting shut down or failing. All the venues need are the Spotify name and good advertising and they'd be thriving, making money for Spotify, and developing the smallest artist and the music scene that Spotify can then claim as they've played and been a part of their venue. It sounds so simple yet here we are... A big shame
If corporations can get something for nothing, they will. This is just like outsourcing and offshoring - minimizing the amount of money going to the people who make things happen.
Such a good rant well done! What you’re saying is applicable to so many things too, politicians especially.
A lot of great ideas, Damian, but let's be honest: Spotify is a discovery platform and is comfortable for the consumer, however, Spotify have been constantly trying to water down the deal for artists because artists are just as much the cash cow as the paying subscribers; and he has learnt that no matter how badly he treats the artists, the majority will keep using the platform (in all fairness, so do we, it's pretty much a necessary evil).
As far as we're aware, he's not even re-investing into the music industry. He's cutting jobs at Spotify itself and as great as your ideas are, if Daniel Ek gave half a f*** he'd have thought of it himself and acted on it rather than pouring more money into companies like Helsing AI, military defence.
I have gained so much respect for you after watching this video thank you for being the voice for us, everything you said is just pure facts. Unbelievably hard as an upcoming independent artist and they do not make it any easier.
I have to eat, a roof over my head is also convenient. This is before any equipment and all the other costs. How is that costing me close to zero?
Top man Damo. Balanced and full of nuance. Best take of this whole thing I've seen.
Amen to every word you've said here. EK clearly doesn't give two sh#ts about music. He loves money & doesn't hesitate ripping off us musicians at every opportunity! It maddens me n frustrates me. Things need to change. Sadly I doubt he ever will change his business model. The only way that would impact on him is if people exclude spotify from the platforms that are fair and actually help artists...
Great video! I have my issues with Spotify and his comment just made me start rethinking strategies again. I try to stay positive about Spotify, but things like this make it difficult. Thanks for being honest Damian. What Spotify needs to be careful with is just as they were a solution for the music industry issues back in the day, someone out there will eventually create a solution for the issues Spotify has today. And that my friend, is a Billion dollar loss.
preferred method is to buy music directly from artists, but i'd rather steal music than give a dime to spotify.
Most amazing rant. Thank you!
This impassioned and honest view on Spotify and the prat who owns it Daniel Ek and what he's said recently is spot on.
Calling music "content" and saying its easy to make and costs almost zero now!?
100% Agree with you on where is the infrastructure? The education and opportunities for funding etc.
People like us are doing it. I run a community music and performing arts session in my home town and I have had to fight for every penny or in many cases pay for it myself. To provide a space for 15 to 21 year olds to come and try music or any other related skills like sound etc. FOR FREE. Because I give a shit and want to pay it foeward aftwr adecent career in music myself.
Unlike Ek.
Consumers need to understand supporting Spotify isn't supporting the grass roots, it isn't supporting the art to regenerate generation after generation.
Support artists directly. Especially at grass roots. And when I say artists I mean not just musicians but writers, poets, dancers, painters, graphic artists, film makers...
The list goes on and on.
And these people are what often make life bareable in difficult times. Provide commentary on society.
Honestly. F**K Spotify and F**K Daniel Eck.
Nobody asked you to do all that though.
@@RealHomeRecording Meaning what exactly?
@@RealHomeRecording No one asked you for your dumb opinion either, yet here you are. What you would rather? Nobody did anything? I do it because I want to. Because I want to see the next generation come through and have opportunities that are becoming less and less accessible because the grass roots has no funding, no support and Ek the out of touch billionaire thinks its all just content and easy and free to do. Invest in the next generation and grass roots or eventually there will be no content left for Ek to take advantage of.
You don't get a forest with a high beautiful canopy without nurturing the roots and soil below.
You can talk to the consumers and explain to them how Spotify is bad and how artists are getting f* along the way, they just don't care. Try it with your friends. It's eye-opening really. They won't stop using the service. Their own convenience is more important.
@@mattwatsonthesecrethelicopters you said you had to fight for every penny or pay for things yourself. Nobody asked you to do that.
God bless ya Damian. More voices like yourself needed. Keep her lit.
And they're hiking their prices again... absolute chancers
Great rant! Thank you for sticking up for the artist, Damo!!!
Preach! Daniel Ek has totally ruined the industry. Boycott spotify.
Growing up with zero knowledge of the music industry, this channel has changed my life.
It’s also worth noting that… as an independent artist…. This concept of “making money off streams” literally seems silly to me, and if Spotify could put actual programs together that meant something to artists- that would really be a game changer !!
Music industry just like the film industry, news media and everyone else have fully switched to giving the customer what the customer already wants. That's why everything is dying
Huh?
Who needs him when we have you as our hero. Seriously, that was really, really nice for you to do. Thank you
Well said Damo
Thank you so much, hopefully it wasn’t misplaced and I wasn’t talking for all musicians. It it felt like such an unnecessary dig at creatives for no reason. Feels like his target audience is now investors and celebs
@@DamianKeyes your statements are spot on and this is why we come together on YOUR CHANNEL to talk about it! ⚡️
Love these ideas you brought up for Spotify! How can we get this video to Daniel Eck?
Never buy spotify subscription
Never will
The only subscription that I have is UA-cam now
The music industry is alive and kicking in the sense it has always been a ruthless money making machine. Spotify is no different. Artists can put their music on Spotify but don't expect to get paid for it, unless you're great at marketing. No point in arguing for better prospects for artists on Spotify, as that won't be very effective. However, if millions of artists realised they are worth little to nothing on Spotify (except the biggest stars), they could do great stuff on UA-cam and have a platform like Bandcamp that actually would value your music! And it would pay far far better. The fact that Spotify gives you such a small return for your music, spells out quite clearly how they 'value' you as an artist and your contribution to their platform. If the masses of artists decided/threatened to move their music to another platform, I think Spotify might get the message and be more persuaded to see more value or worth in each and every artist that makes up Spotify and therefore be prepared to reflect that value in how they pay artists! No artists, no Spotify, no revenue🤗.
I’m done with Spotify no longer distributing my music on there all musicians should leave that’s the solution
real asf. I teared up a lil when u talked cuz i fr be putting in soul but nobody even sees me. Be convincing myself if i grab a lil more money ill have time to be chronically online and pay for people to play my shit on they playform and run some ads maybe then ill finally see some love to my shit. It be disheartening fs. Then mfs at the top just be talkin like foh
Thank you so much. It pains me to see so many disheartened artists and I hope that things will improve over time. I'm here for you all the way! 🙂🙂
Well done video, Damian. 100% with you on this 👏🏼
The Education needs to be directed to the consumer I believe. We used to spend our money on the music that we wanted back in the day, and now for $10 a month as you said, the consumer has unlimited access to all the artists on the platform. How do you split $10 amongst millions of artists? Clearly these companies saw the opportunity to make money and they did it, not for us, but for them. We need to find a way to educate the consumer AGAIN to spend directly on the artist, can that get expensive? yes, but we used to do it, why can't these new generations? All these Corps are doing is training the masses to spend in the wrong place.