It is such a wonderful piece. Would love to hear more of Okayan's work!!!! Who makes that guitar! I want one. Love the Grace, but it was predictable based on their reputation in audio engineering! What you put in, you get out. I actually did not think the TC was close.
Thank you for the nice video. Also any preamp is good (RED is my favorite). The reason is great Okayan playing, wonderful song, and beautiful guitar sound. More than anything, it is the music. Then the mic. Preamp would be the next. I was impressed to Okayan!
GRACE= less wooly. All the other pre's seemed to have some type of impediment or other. I have a GRACE m801, but I modded mine with Analog Devices (AD844).
Thank you so much for this comparison. In my personal experience, the more opulent and colored micpres are a good choice for solo instruments or instruments that are panned dead center. The musical expressiveness of intervals gains in weight through them. The transient are inflated with harmonic distortion. The transparent ones such as Grace are better positioned to either sides of the stereo field. Also, the more crowded and dense a mix happens to be, the more I tend to prefer the transparent ones. But that will come at the expense of musical phrases sounding a little more *trivial*. There is always the danger that the critical listener will focus more onto the sonics than the music. Therefore it's better to have several micrpres at your disposal. What I noticed about the Grace was, that it made the KM184 also reveal it's flaws more than the other micpres did. The KM184 has lost some of its linearity compared to it's predecessor the KM84, particularly noticeable in the lower mid-range and bass. An now let's say the performer is a lightning fast guitar player like 'Di Meola' or 'Mclaughlin'. In that case, would you prefer a 'complex' sound or one that sounds tight, simplistic and more mid-focused, like the Focusrite or Chandler TG2? I'd go for those as the string of fast transients would need to be captured with as much uniformness as possible and with as little harmonic distraction as possible which could originate from noises such as string slide / slap noises or plastic plectrum noises.
Sweet Sound's Okayan, Sweet and Beautiful Sound's brother. I think it just goes to prove Talent can deal with any mic pre you throw at it, Shocking how little difference between £2000 mic pre and a £250 TC All in one Box.
Okayan, thank you for the beautiful music which sounds great through all the preamps! And to the younger guy: Maybe it would be better to remove your woolen hat before comparing mic pres. ;-)
As a sound technician too, the sound changes do exist but are extremely subtle. For those having trouble hearing, for example, listen to bass heavy Sound Devices unit compared to the even across all frequencies Grace. The Grace is also my favourite. However, I agree with other commenters, nothing will give a drastic change and is more important than instrument choice and tone, mic placement and and the room. A good source sound leads to a good track.
I picked the Grace right away, before anything was said ... I would go for the Grace Designs out of that bunch - the clarity of the Grace and ability to accurately deal with the dynamic range of the guitar made it a winner for me. I'm shopping for a mic pre right now so this and tests like this are helpful.
Thank you for this video! I've been tired of hissy dslr audio and have decided to pick up a sound devices mp-1 to go into a portable recorder. Your video helped a lot!
This is a good comparison. Thanks for doing this. I'm listening on some studio monitors and I am happy to say that I can hear what each preamp is known for. The Grace truly does sound like you're in the room. I love it. Very raw and unforgiving. The Chandlers have that vintage flavor to them. More forgiving. It's a character and I can see it complimenting certain sound sources very well. I see why people love it. I would have liked to see an API and an SSL in the group. I'm gonna bet you guys would love that in your studio as well. :) I'm assuming you ran through that 003? I'd love to hear what an RME Fireface 802 would have done in its place. Much more detailed and raw.
Enjoyable little shootout and kinda knew the Grace would do well. Thanks guys a nice clip made with care. Did smile though at the Japanese fingerstyle description, was expecting something ummm oriental/inscrutable when it actually sounded just like good ole fingerstyle :)
I would have combined the Red 6 with either the TC Electronic or with the Grace Designs in order to get both warmth and bass together with mid and high definition. The combination, you guys, chose is also a very good one.
The enormous amount of reverb applied to the guitar tracks in post pretty much negates the subtle differences in tone that either of these preamps brings to the song. That being said, this was a great comparison and a beautiful song.
Beautiful song! Preferred the Grace Designs. Why using two identical mics at the same place? Is that a particular miking technique? Thanks for your answer.
Richard, Your jaded opinion doesnt change the fact that YOU CAN STILL HEAR A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THEM. So in fact, my point IS what is inevitably being talked about, or the subject of this video wouldn't have existed in the first place.
Nice video. Sometimes I feel like peasant tasting vine. The Sommelier " I getting taste of coffee and burnt rubber" me "I'm getting wasted" What I'm trying to say is, I can't hear a big difference at all. Perhaps due to some bad earplugs, but they all sounds good to me. Don't let the technic get in the way of creation. And great playing mr Okayan.
AS soon as the Grace started I noticed how nice it was....problem is, since we weren't there with the guitar itself we don't know if it's boomier than the actual guitar is. I liked the TC as well (I felt it was less boomy, bringing the melody better), and also the the first Chandler. This piece is about the melody, not the basses. I'm very amazed I liked the TC unit's internal preamps better than the expensive stuff.
I completely agree about trying not just many different sources, but also different mics/signal chain/etc. on each one. Then you get into extremely complex tests with endless iterations. While that is ideal, it is not practical. IMO the only practical way to approach things like preamp choice is to pick one, like the Neve 1073 style preamp in my case, that you know is good on everything, and spend all your time and energy on things that are more important like mic placement, etc.
Interesting video. The only real preamps I have heard that have there own definitive sound are the Neves ( solid bottom and slightly silky top ) and Sebatron valve preamps ( warm and tight bottoms with air on top ) .From the recordings I have heard from these two brands I can hear the full range of all possibilities I would have on the front end of my recording studio set up. That includes all mic types as well as direct in capabilities with both. The Chandler is capable as well , with a good transient response which is what I prefer when recording lots of acoustic instruments.
I really like Okayan's song. I would listen to this while laying in my hammock on a summer's evening. Anyways, I would chose both- blending them together. Maybe have the TC Electronics on the 12 fret and the Grace Designs positioned over his shoulder at the same distance away. I would imagine this would give you the most ideal sound, but who knows. Thanks for the great comparison.
I like Ethan Winers take on AB comparison, and thats that you should do a blind test. Another words you shouldn't know which is which until after the test.
Preamp coloring can be night and day, but in this test it isn't. That shouldn't be surprising. Realistically, any high-quality mic pre should sound identical when totally clean. There's a reason you mostly hear about the Neve 1073 in a rock context--there it gets pushed enough to distort in a subtle but unique and interesting way. But as this demo shows, if you plug an acoustic guitar into it and keep the gain low, it's transparent and therefore just like every other transparent pre.
TC was ok with the KM184 I agree, The Germanium has a great interesting sound (my pick) . I don't understand why people want to pay more than $1000 to just have the amplified sound of a supposed natural sound. It is the electric signal you get from the mic that can be altered and colored. So it is very important to test the pre amps with other mics to have a better idea of what you get. It is really a chain. At least we know a bit more about THIS chain and not really what is good or bad.
Do you work for Grace Desing? Cause I think Grace sound little humble on the low and less some naturality on mids neverthenless sounds amazing as the other. Focusrite sounds very natural and Chandler too
I'm not sure I like the TC... the Sound devices and the grace had a slightly more open, more headroomy sound in the upper mids and had the most true representation of the highs without being too tinny. I wasn't in the room though which makes me cry a little. This guy is a phenomenal tone-having guitarist.
I am an engineer too and I also am a singer. I agree with what you said on eqs and instrument. But this video shows the difference only among different preamps. The fact is that this video is not complete at all because if you really want to hear differences among different preamps you should see how they respond to many variables wich are for ex: first is different settings on the amount of gain used on the preamp, second is different settings on eqs (on the same sets of gain in preamps)...
He has confused the two Chandlers. His description of the TG2 is actually the Germanium to a tee (warm lows and mids with slightly metallic high end). The TG2 is mid heavy with subdued highs. You can clearly hear that the TG2 is more midsy than the Chandler Germanium.
According to what I tried, they are pretty damn good. The only doubt I'd have, in that price range, would be between that and the Mackie onyx Blackjack, which has (In my opinion) better preamps. Though, I never heard the Digital/Analog converter of the mackie so I would hear both of them before buying.
Well, there's a few things to note. First of all: you're probably not using studio monitors and an audio interface to listen to this. Second of all: the UA-cam audio has been compressed a lot and is probably fairly distorted.
Great shootout. I agree that the Grace is the most clear and balanced, but, for me, that kind of clarity is 'hyperreal' and may require glossing with some tubes or transformers. Personally, Chandler (and other) germanium-based pres help the listener suspend disbelief for a whole track. So, tonal clarity is not the whole picture: the recording chain is like makeup for TV or stage: it has to be unnatural to be perceived by the end user as natural.
I think you should hear the difference between an M-audio fast track pro's and a focusrite scarlet's preamps, that would reeeeally make you change your mind
Listening through Shure SRH840, coming out of a very proper audio interface. I know what I'm listening for, even the "very different way(s)" that these preamps supposedly bring in the guitar. I want to see a blind test with these guys. If they can consistently identify preamps on a clean guitar, with moderate gain from the preamp (so just used to capture) then perhaps I'd consider there is actually something there.
hey can anyone help with a question please, my interface already has mic pre's in it just not good ones, so if i buy an exernal mic pre and connect that to my interface i will effectively have two mic pre amps in line? so will one of them be bypassed? i don't understand how it works thanks.
The thing is, even if there are subtle difference, which we may be able to hear, that does not make one necessarily better to the engineer, or especially the end listener. I am also a musician, and engineers who are not musicians, or just play an instrument as a hobby, tend to overemphasize the gear and bloat the importance of tiny differences (see gearslutz), like wine tasters.If you see in blind tests, experienced wine tatsers consistently choose $2 Trader Joe's wine vs. highly prized vintage.
Me too. It seems they have super hears. Or I'm totally deaf. To me each one sounds exactly like the other ... not differences at all. or if they stress the differences perhaps youtube has damaged the audio.
Screw the preamps.... That guitar performance has a tremendous feeling. Great!
Okayan what a beautiful performance! Great review guys
What a smooth sounding, beautiful, emotional piece on your personal fingerstyle guitar performance!
Forget the preamp the music is very relaxing
The guitarist has one of the best right hands I have ever seen. The touch in his fingers is astonishing. Great engineers as well.
The musical piece was superb, and an excellent choice for demonstrating these pre-amps.
incredible video. good job on the tests and was in awe with his style and song.
It sounds so good, that I can't help listening to it! Hats off!
I 've had that exact TC 24D now for 5 years and it makes me so glad to hear it as a winner, I'd like to see an updated test now in 2018
Okayan, thanks for the beautiful music.
The winner is... guitarist. I will definitely buy his recordings.
It is such a wonderful piece. Would love to hear more of Okayan's work!!!! Who makes that guitar! I want one. Love the Grace, but it was predictable based on their reputation in audio engineering! What you put in, you get out. I actually did not think the TC was close.
Not only did I appreciate the comparison, I enjoy the performance. Thanks for posting.
The good news is that we can hear guitar no matter what preamp is used :D
Thank you for the nice video.
Also any preamp is good (RED is my favorite). The reason is great Okayan playing, wonderful song, and beautiful guitar sound. More than anything, it is the music. Then the mic. Preamp would be the next. I was impressed to Okayan!
the grace is by far the best one!
It's just louder..
GRACE= less wooly. All the other pre's seemed to have some type of impediment or other. I have a GRACE m801, but I modded mine with Analog Devices (AD844).
Thank you so much for this comparison. In my personal experience, the more opulent and colored micpres are a good choice for solo instruments or instruments that are panned dead center. The musical expressiveness of intervals gains in weight through them. The transient are inflated with harmonic distortion. The transparent ones such as Grace are better positioned to either sides of the stereo field. Also, the more crowded and dense a mix happens to be, the more I tend to prefer the transparent ones. But that will come at the expense of musical phrases sounding a little more *trivial*. There is always the danger that the critical listener will focus more onto the sonics than the music. Therefore it's better to have several micrpres at your disposal. What I noticed about the Grace was, that it made the KM184 also reveal it's flaws more than the other micpres did. The KM184 has lost some of its linearity compared to it's predecessor the KM84, particularly noticeable in the lower mid-range and bass.
An now let's say the performer is a lightning fast guitar player like 'Di Meola' or 'Mclaughlin'. In that case, would you prefer a 'complex' sound or one that sounds tight, simplistic and more mid-focused, like the Focusrite or Chandler TG2? I'd go for those as the string of fast transients would need to be captured with as much uniformness as possible and with as little harmonic distraction as possible which could originate from noises such as string slide / slap noises or plastic plectrum noises.
Okayan can make anything sound good! It's a shame he only made one album, that I can find. Great material!!!
I like the Grace pre the best. If you want more of a smoother sound, the Focusrite with a touch of EQ would be the one for me.
A fantastic review. If only all online reviews were this professional.
Vocals would have completed this.
I loved the Chandlers' laid-back vintage tone. The TC seemed to struggle and the Focusrite seemed gated. The rest were fine.
Sweet Sound's Okayan, Sweet and Beautiful Sound's brother. I think it just goes to prove Talent can deal with any mic pre you throw at it, Shocking how little difference between £2000 mic pre and a £250 TC All in one Box.
Such a beautiful piece...
Screw the preamps
LOL
Extremely well done. Much appreciate your professional opinions.
Okayan, thank you for the beautiful music which sounds great through all the preamps! And to the younger guy: Maybe it would be better to remove your woolen hat before comparing mic pres. ;-)
Grace Designs get my vote here!
Nice tune!
As a sound technician too, the sound changes do exist but are extremely subtle. For those having trouble hearing, for example, listen to bass heavy Sound Devices unit compared to the even across all frequencies Grace. The Grace is also my favourite.
However, I agree with other commenters, nothing will give a drastic change and is more important than instrument choice and tone, mic placement and and the room. A good source sound leads to a good track.
I picked the Grace right away, before anything was said ... I would go for the Grace Designs out of that bunch - the clarity of the Grace and ability to accurately deal with the dynamic range of the guitar made it a winner for me. I'm shopping for a mic pre right now so this and tests like this are helpful.
Beautiful tune, nicely played.
Thank you for this video! I've been tired of hissy dslr audio and have decided to pick up a sound devices mp-1 to go into a portable recorder. Your video helped a lot!
Beautiful song and nice playing.
This is a good comparison. Thanks for doing this. I'm listening on some studio monitors and I am happy to say that I can hear what each preamp is known for.
The Grace truly does sound like you're in the room. I love it. Very raw and unforgiving.
The Chandlers have that vintage flavor to them. More forgiving. It's a character and I can see it complimenting certain sound sources very well. I see why people love it.
I would have liked to see an API and an SSL in the group. I'm gonna bet you guys would love that in your studio as well. :) I'm assuming you ran through that 003? I'd love to hear what an RME Fireface 802 would have done in its place. Much more detailed and raw.
TC Electronics for me
Excellent video!
Enjoyable little shootout and kinda knew the Grace would do well. Thanks guys a nice clip made with care. Did smile though at the Japanese fingerstyle description, was expecting something ummm oriental/inscrutable when it actually sounded just like good ole fingerstyle :)
This almost could be a Wes Anderson film. Very well done.
Anyone else suddenly feel like moving to Japan? My studio seems so stressed and chaotic in comparison to this haha.
I would have combined the Red 6 with either the TC Electronic or with the Grace Designs in order to get both warmth and bass together with mid and high definition. The combination, you guys, chose is also a very good one.
Thanks for this shoot-out, by the way!
The enormous amount of reverb applied to the guitar tracks in post pretty much negates the subtle differences in tone that either of these preamps brings to the song. That being said, this was a great comparison and a beautiful song.
Beautiful composition on any of those pres!
Beautiful song! Preferred the Grace Designs. Why using two identical mics at the same place? Is that a particular miking technique? Thanks for your answer.
A lot of effort (and money) on this.
Thanks and greets.
Noobie producer from Ciudad de México
Richard,
Your jaded opinion doesnt change the fact that YOU CAN STILL HEAR A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THEM. So in fact, my point IS what is inevitably being talked about, or the subject of this video wouldn't have existed in the first place.
beautiful song
Nice video. Sometimes I feel like peasant tasting vine. The Sommelier " I getting taste of coffee and burnt rubber" me "I'm getting wasted" What I'm trying to say is, I can't hear a big difference at all. Perhaps due to some bad earplugs, but they all sounds good to me. Don't let the technic get in the way of creation. And great playing mr Okayan.
AS soon as the Grace started I noticed how nice it was....problem is, since we weren't there with the guitar itself we don't know if it's boomier than the actual guitar is. I liked the TC as well (I felt it was less boomy, bringing the melody better), and also the the first Chandler. This piece is about the melody, not the basses. I'm very amazed I liked the TC unit's internal preamps better than the expensive stuff.
TC by far was the cleanest (bright mid and low) and offered a beneficial reproduction of the sound as opposed to losing any or dampening any.
I completely agree about trying not just many different sources, but also different mics/signal chain/etc. on each one. Then you get into extremely complex tests with endless iterations. While that is ideal, it is not practical. IMO the only practical way to approach things like preamp choice is to pick one, like the Neve 1073 style preamp in my case, that you know is good on everything, and spend all your time and energy on things that are more important like mic placement, etc.
Beautifull guitar piece!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
you mean place the mics a little further from the sound hole and more towards the neck, cause I totally agree on that
Chandler colors the sound, but I just love it.
Interesting video. The only real preamps I have heard that have there own definitive sound are the Neves ( solid bottom and slightly silky top ) and Sebatron valve preamps ( warm and tight bottoms with air on top ) .From the recordings I have heard from these two brands I can hear the full range of all possibilities I would have on the front end of my recording studio set up.
That includes all mic types as well as direct in capabilities with both.
The Chandler is capable as well , with a good transient response which is what I prefer when recording lots of acoustic instruments.
Beautiful music
I really like Okayan's song. I would listen to this while laying in my hammock on a summer's evening. Anyways, I would chose both- blending them together. Maybe have the TC Electronics on the 12 fret and the Grace Designs positioned over his shoulder at the same distance away. I would imagine this would give you the most ideal sound, but who knows. Thanks for the great comparison.
I like Ethan Winers take on AB comparison, and thats that you should do a blind test. Another words you shouldn't know which is which until after the test.
I could hear the differences. I liked the grace. Very natural/organic sound.
I sure liked the Focusrite, (loved the extra warmth) as well as the others in this review. They are all hi-end preamps and sound great.
This is better than reading all the reviews and forums . . .
Can't even find the Grace Designs 201 now; anything else you now use that is equal or better, or are you still using the 201?
Preamp coloring can be night and day, but in this test it isn't. That shouldn't be surprising. Realistically, any high-quality mic pre should sound identical when totally clean. There's a reason you mostly hear about the Neve 1073 in a rock context--there it gets pushed enough to distort in a subtle but unique and interesting way. But as this demo shows, if you plug an acoustic guitar into it and keep the gain low, it's transparent and therefore just like every other transparent pre.
TC was ok with the KM184 I agree, The Germanium has a great interesting sound (my pick) . I don't understand why people want to pay more than $1000 to just have the amplified sound of a supposed natural sound. It is the electric signal you get from the mic that can be altered and colored. So it is very important to test the pre amps with other mics to have a better idea of what you get. It is really a chain. At least we know a bit more about THIS chain and not really what is good or bad.
Interesting video. It's nice to see other recording enthusiasts in Japan! By the way, what kind of guitar was that?
This Is A Great Guitar Sound I Love IT I Also Love The Test As Well I Will Get This Guy Album If He Has One Great Works Keep IT UP
Gracias muy buena comparación y linda la canción felicitaciones.
Ahhh... Into the world of preamps!
wow. guitar performance.. just wow.
Do you work for Grace Desing?
Cause I think Grace sound little humble on the low and less some naturality on mids
neverthenless sounds amazing as the other.
Focusrite sounds very natural and Chandler too
The 02R has a very dull sound, but if clocked externally, it really opens up and you think: Is that a Yamaha 02R?
You should use the same take and a mic multi/splitter so we can hear the difference.
I was looking for a video about the MP-1, this was a very interesting test.
I wish UA-cam supported WAV/AAC though :/
I choose the Grace also. I have read about them but thats the first time I have heard it and I like it allot. I liked the Chandler Germaium 2nd.
@VexedFilms beautiful playing by the way
I've always liked Grace pres on acoustic, my fav has to be Hardy pres though, and I tend to lean towards large diaphragm mics as well on acoustic..
I'm not sure I like the TC... the Sound devices and the grace had a slightly more open, more headroomy sound in the upper mids and had the most true representation of the highs without being too tinny. I wasn't in the room though which makes me cry a little. This guy is a phenomenal tone-having guitarist.
I would design my own, then slightly eq the signal before recording, instead of waiting after the event to compare the highs,lows and mids.
I am an engineer too and I also am a singer. I agree with what you said on eqs and instrument.
But this video shows the difference only among different preamps. The fact is that this video is not complete at all because if you really want to hear differences among different preamps you should see how they respond to many variables wich are for ex: first is different settings on the amount of gain used on the preamp, second is different settings on eqs (on the same sets of gain in preamps)...
He has confused the two Chandlers. His description of the TG2 is actually the Germanium to a tee (warm lows and mids with slightly metallic high end). The TG2 is mid heavy with subdued highs. You can clearly hear that the TG2 is more midsy than the Chandler Germanium.
According to what I tried, they are pretty damn good.
The only doubt I'd have, in that price range, would be between that and the Mackie onyx Blackjack, which has (In my opinion) better preamps. Though, I never heard the Digital/Analog converter of the mackie so I would hear both of them before buying.
are all these preamps compression fitted?
grace is amazing
Well, there's a few things to note. First of all: you're probably not using studio monitors and an audio interface to listen to this. Second of all: the UA-cam audio has been compressed a lot and is probably fairly distorted.
Great shootout. I agree that the Grace is the most clear and balanced, but, for me, that kind of clarity is 'hyperreal' and may require glossing with some tubes or transformers. Personally, Chandler (and other) germanium-based pres help the listener suspend disbelief for a whole track. So, tonal clarity is not the whole picture: the recording chain is like makeup for TV or stage: it has to be unnatural to be perceived by the end user as natural.
Great video, thanks!
I think you should hear the difference between an M-audio fast track pro's and a focusrite scarlet's preamps, that would reeeeally make you change your mind
Listening through Shure SRH840, coming out of a very proper audio interface. I know what I'm listening for, even the "very different way(s)" that these preamps supposedly bring in the guitar. I want to see a blind test with these guys. If they can consistently identify preamps on a clean guitar, with moderate gain from the preamp (so just used to capture) then perhaps I'd consider there is actually something there.
.. and whats wrong with an old desk bought from Ebay ?
nice guitar playing
Nice joice, but I think the lowmid are so much huge for a "natural sound", but still clear.
Is that dry recording? No EQ's, compression, etc?
Is this 7602 original(MKI)? or MKII?
Thank you, I agree.
This guy in studio is White Jedi...
indeed
Is there Okayan's album?
take my money!!
I liked the grace designs the best.
hey can anyone help with a question please, my interface already has mic pre's in it just not good ones, so if i buy an exernal mic pre and connect that to my interface i will effectively have two mic pre amps in line? so will one of them be bypassed? i don't understand how it works thanks.
The best video would be to make a comparison between these mic preamps and no mic preamp! So see if the it's worthy the extra 1-2.000 buks
good player, good instrument, good mics so it sounds good.
The thing is, even if there are subtle difference, which we may be able to hear, that does not make one necessarily better to the engineer, or especially the end listener. I am also a musician, and engineers who are not musicians, or just play an instrument as a hobby, tend to overemphasize the gear and bloat the importance of tiny differences (see gearslutz), like wine tasters.If you see in blind tests, experienced wine tatsers consistently choose $2 Trader Joe's wine vs. highly prized vintage.
Me too. It seems they have super hears. Or I'm totally deaf. To me each one sounds exactly like the other ... not differences at all.
or if they stress the differences perhaps youtube has damaged the audio.
are the focusrite scarlet's good? I'm wondering.