My grandpa was a HUGE Frasier fan. He used to comment all the time about the gay rumors about the actors "What does it matter if they are? Doesn't change anything." One of the reasons I wasn't so scared to come out when I was old enough to accept it and understand it myself.
That's really fantastic. I'm glad your grandfather had that view and you were able to come out in an accepting environment where the topic wasn't some hugely taboo thing that no one wanted to acknowledge let alone talk about or associate with.
Jacob Schweitzer my grandparents won't even wish me a Happy Birthday anymore. I'm glad you have such a wonderful grandfather. Maybe I could borrow him.
@@SealySikes Where did he mention John Mahoney was gay? Him being unwilling to speak openly about his sexuality and aligning himself with LGBT projects could mean anything. Was he bi? Was he ace? Was he pan?
I was in a gay dude's actual bedroom, but missed all the subtext and I totally get why he didn't make a move. And he was the singer of a show I'd been to that night and had been swooning at from the audience. We met at the after-party, somehow I ended up doing a trip back to his place to "get something". And stupid me still nothing happened, I'm just like "wow your bedroom is so cool...". And I get it now, all these years later, it was up to me to signal safety. For me it was just bi-curiosity, for him there were stakes, and he was also just being a decent person about it. I could have had any number of reactions, he wasn't to know. There was interest on both sides and nothing doing. (Stupid stupid me, still kicking myself years later, he was cute as hell)
My first job was the summer before college at a bakery that shared a building with a flower shop. At the time I thought I was straight and had a boyfriend. This girl used to work in the flower shop next to me and started coming over every morning before I opened to make conversation and order a cinnamon roll. It took me about a year or two after the fact to realize she was 100% flirting with me while also trying to figure out if I liked girls too. It’s been years since then and I’m still kicking myself about it 😅 I can’t believe I missed the signals!
This was one of the best Fraiser episodes there was, but my favorite will always be "Ski lodge" Where Guy the ski instructor believes Niles, Daphney, and Annie are all gay and thus he chases after Niles, while Daphney chases Guy, Annie chases Niles and of course Niles is chasing Daphney.
I never remember him mentioning a one night stand. "Let me see if I have this completely straight. All the lust, the hormones ricocheting off the walls and no one... was chasing me?"
There's even another layer to this, for me at least. Episodes like this were tools I used as a sort of barometer to gauge the reactions of friends and family in a time before I had publicly come out. Seeing how they reacted--and the dialogue it opened up--helped me get a feel for how they might react when I finally told them. The same applied to popular movies like 'Birdcage' and 'In & Out'.
For my dad, both times I came out, was basically him noticing that I never had boyfriends, hated when my mum wouldn't stop asking about boyfriends, and most obviously, I kept reading queer novels and going to queer film festivals. Eventually my dad just asked if there was something to all that.
“That’s impossible, Tom’s not gay!” “He seems to be under that impression.” Lol! This is one of my favorite sitcoms. I had no idea so many people who worked on it were lgbt.
I think part of the reason why this episode of Frasier is funny rather than offensive (and way ahead of its time) is because the writers don't make Tom predatory and they make Frasier the one who's misreading signals rather than Tom, who is making plausible false assumptions about Frasier's sexuality, and when they do the big reveal, Frasier isn't disgusted by Tom being gay or hugely uncomfortable at the thought of being gay or other people thinking he's gay, he's just embarrassed that he made such a huge social fopaux and wasted Daphne *and Tom's* evenings. I think that "Frasier" handled the subject of queerness tastefully and respectfully given 90s entertainment still made the joke that being gay or being thought of as gay was funny as a source of embarrassment or outright ridicule (for instance in "Friends," Chandler's dad being transgender *was* the punchline).
Not only am I a gay man but I am also autistic which means I have issues with communication and coding. Knowing how much the gay community back then depends on different communication and social cues makes me very thankful I can use the internet to better learn and communicate, instead of risking dangerous situations just to be in a relationship.
marronVulpes1991 I'm an autistic lesbian and I agree with you completely. In my area violence against lesbians was just as bad as violence against gay men and honestly? If I was around back then I'd have no choice but celebacy. Zero ability to pick up on subtext/hints.
Arunima Tiwari Things aren't perfect for us admittedly, but at least I'm hearing more about autism self-advocacy. Plus I'm very thankful to have a boyfriend who is both supportive and understanding. :)
I'm gay, and very likely on the autism spectrum. I've gotten better at subtle cues. I can even detect when a man is hitting on me (outside of gay bars/events). The problem is I'm too afraid to act on it in case the situation turns violent and I don't know how to get out. Or at best, dealing with the drama of a potentially closeted gay man. Sometimes my abilities can be a bit useless LOL.
BULLDOG IS GAY?! It makes is his specific character much more hilarious. The "flamboyant Hetero" character. Well done . (I know the actor name/nickname isnt bulldog.)
Straight millennial dude here. These videos help me really empathise with the complexities and difficulties of being gay, and appreciate how far we've come as a society. It makes me sad to think there are still people in the world, and to a lesser extent still in the west, who are afraid of being free with who they are and who they can love. I'm so grateful to live now rather than in previous generations.Thank you Matt for the excellent and important videos.
My experience as a married, settled, out gay man (38) is that there are as many types of gay men as there are types of men. But when I was 14 or so, there were no normal gay celebrities, only effeminate, camp showbusiness types. It was very confusing because my fear was that I would have to be like those men and act in that way. My hope is that young gay guys and girls now have loads of examples to look up to and not a narrow band. All my fear came from that.
Silverfirefly1 you’re also a millennial. if the original poster is 19 or younger they’re gen z. i really wish people would understand terms before throwing them around.
Silverfirefly1 i know you didnt. but since you seem more sensible, i figured it made more sense to share the information with you. i explained my frustration lol
@@escarlit Fair enough. I explained the other day to a friend that older millennials are becoming grandparents and that a new catch-all is needed for young people. The word is overused.
"It's almost a shame when the farce begins to unravel" Yes! One of the particular joys of the episode is that the audience is encouraged to identify with Tom. There's another (worse) version of this episode where the scene with Roz doesn't happen and the audience finds out Tom is gay at the same time Frasier does. Instead, even straight people as clueless as Frasier are told the score early on, so they see the dinner date the way Tom sees it. I remember watching this in syndication and part of the delight of the episode for me is the fantasy world that Tom's presence creates; one where Frasier, Niles, and Martin are all gay. I think one of the painful things for a lot of LGBT people, especially back in the 90s, is the way it can create distance between you and your family, whether through outright rejection, the closet, or imperfect acceptance/grudging tolerance. It's that feeling of isolation that comes from most gay people having straight parents. And then, here's this lovely little scenario that Tom walks into, where Frasier's whole family is gay, and out, and a regular part of each other's lives! At least, for me, when I watch that episode, my brain conjures up a million possibilities for a Frasier show where Tom's perspective of the Crane family is the actual premise. It's such a lovely thing to imagine! And of course, the bubble bursts and the truth comes out, but... you still imagined it; even once everything is set straight, you still had this wonderful, fantastic glimpse into that alternate world... and probably, you liked it. Also if you're looking for gay 90s sitcom deep cuts, I seem to remember several gay episodes on Northern Exposure? (OK, not the deepest cut, but NE definitely doesn't seem to have the cultural afterlife of like, Frasier or Friends)
"queer people have always had to live in entendre and become fluent in subtext for the sake of survival. as a result we are always listening for the meaning behind the meaning even when none is intended" wowwwwwwwwww that explains it SOOO CLEARLY!!! thats a great quote man. great writing. i love you and these videos ❤️
What was particularly refreshing about this particular episode was the way in which they handled Frasier letting down Tom at the end. Up until them, TV comedies tackling homosexuality would use the gay character as the butt (pardon the pun) of the joke - with the main character almost running off screaming, side characters laughing and the gay character's feeling not even considered. This episode was something of a first, with the side characters laughing not at Tom but at Frasier's complete lack of awareness. In the end, the final clear-up of the misunderstanding is done with no-one else around to laugh at Tom and Frasier being considerate of Tom's feelings and letting him down gently. Tom is treated with respect, empathy and understanding and not as some sex-mad predator.
Frasier was the Will and Grace before Will and Grace.... The gay subtext in that sitcom was so powerful, it didn't take a rocket scientist to see it...The personalities traits of Frasier and Niles opened the door for gay friendly shows without pushing the agenda in your face, slowly inviting the lifestyle without viewers even knowing it....The best scene in The Matchmaker was when Daphne walks into the room, catches on an immediately exiting.....probably my favorite episode..
Ed, this has always been my favorite episode, in terms of sheer consistency of laughs. The writing is so brilliant - the double entendres that flow the moment Tom enters the apartment...and the two opening scenes with Roz ain't too shabby either. I also love David Hyde Pierce's and John Mahoney's reactions once they learn what's happening...and Niles' ribbing as he breaks the news (by winning the toss!) to Frasier...and Kelsey's demureness when he has to confront Tom with the truth.
dnightwalker I agree. I enjoyed the show a lot for its comedy, and later learned of some of the LGBT cast. I had no idea though that there were so many cast and creators that aligned themselves with the LGBT community. A pleasant surprise to say the least. I wonder if they were out to each other before the show or how that revelation unfolded as they worked together.
I hope you'll cover more Frasier episodes in the future! The show had SO many queer plotlines and jokes over the years. Besides this episode, I can recall at least half a dozen episodes where the story revolves around one of the Cranes either being pursued by a gay man or being mistaken as one. For example, there's an episode in which Martin pretends to be gay to avoid being set up with a woman he doesn't find attractive only to find himself being set up with a gay man instead, a farcical episode in which the Cranes go to a ski lodge and Niles ends up being chased by a French ski instructor called Guy, and one episode in which Frasier essentially starts dating a charismatic director played by Patrick Stewart and not wanting to admit that he's not actually gay because he's way too into the idea of being a part of an elegant power couple. I'd love to hear your take on these episodes. Personally, I love Frasier, but sometimes I do wonder whether the show presented queerness as a punchline too many times. As a straight woman, I don't feel like I'm equipped to answer that question.
it’s so weird hearing abt the special dialect in england and the need for double meanings for back in the day. I’m only 18 and in the closet so all of this information is new to me. I really love these videos
To be strictly accurate, Polari wasn't quite a dialect, except maybe among a few of its more enthusiastic proponents. It was more an intricate collection of slang words, and it was largely confined to gay subculture in inner London areas (like Soho). It became more widely known - and was ironically killed off by - the characters Julian and Sandy in the 1960s radio comedy series 'Round The Horne.
My high school boyfriend was a stereotypical straight, white, football jock, with a fair bit of homophobia. But, my best friend at the time was semi-openly gay (to his friends and family), and aspiring to be a drag queen, and he accepted him (because he was FUNNY). One day we were walking and talking in the mall. I brought Frasier up, because I loved the show. He remarked that he LOVED the dad on the show, and that he wished when he got older he could be like him. I said "Oh, but you know that the guy who plays him is gay, right?" He was so shocked and in disbelief that a gay guy could possibly play such a great straight guy...I felt sorry for shattering this image he had, that I told him I was 'just kidding'...He was so relieved! I didn't have the heart to tell him about Bulldog (his other favorite on the show). I'll never forget that moment. After we broke up, I would see John Mahoney and giggle. I wonder if he ever found out the truth?
It's funny thinking about coded language because as a non-out trans man I sometimes refer to myself with masculine terms ("I feel like a grandpa" "just trying to be a gentleman" etc) and either people go "ahaha you mean *insert female term*!!" or they get it. Usually if they get it I'm like "ah, found a queer person!"
Just stumbled upon this video and absolutely love this analysis! I think one of the reasons Frasier still means so much to me after all these years is that it feels like a safe, understanding space for queerness. A large part of that is in the authentic portrayal of Frasier and Niles' a-typical masculinity throughout the show, and the way it presents this as authentic and valid as well as humorous. To me it reaches a point where it still does not really feel "dated", but rather like a very insightful reflection on the changing culture of the '90s. However, this video did raise one concern... If David Hyde Pierce wasn't out yet during the first seasons, what does that mean for his ICONIC glance in the camera after Frasier's "it means you're a gay man" speech in "My Coffee With Niles"? Because that look is queer comedy gold.
I never accepted that was a look to the cameras as a code. I remember him giving the same look when he was talking about the film Basic Instinct and other occasions when he did the same. I read someone that when he started on Frasier he and his partner didn't even share an apartment because they were so afraid the press might find out. Obviously his colleagues knew but to think someone couldn't share a home with their partner out of fear is so sad.
Loved the mention of Polari. My first introduction to it was listening to old recordings of the BBC radio sketch show Round the Horne, where it was used by the characters Julian and Sandy. Here's some info from Wikipedia: 'Julian and Sandy were characters on the BBC radio comedy programme Round the Horne from 1965 to 1968 and were played by Hugh Paddick and Kenneth Williams respectively. As well as being a successful comedy act, Julian and Sandy were notable for being two stereotypical camp homosexual characters in mainstream entertainment at a time when homosexual acts between men were illegal in the United Kingdom. The writers and cast thought the characters worked very well as they were not simply there to be the target of a joke: in fact most of the sketches revolved around Kenneth Horne's presumed ignorance being the target of their jokes. Paul Baker writes that these sketches, while mocking an oppressed gay identity, present gay people as cheerful, rather than "indexing unhappy, ashamed identities like those in films such as Victim (1961), A Taste of Honey (1961) and The Boys in the Band (1970), or the openly politicised identity adopted by members of the Gay Liberation Front". Their use of Polari in sketches introduced the gay cant to a mass audience, and identified them as gay to those in the know. Although this prompted a brief revival, Round the Horne ultimately led to Polari's near-demise as a means of communication between gay men.' What I love about them is that there may not be just a double entendre, but a triple! For example Dish could have 3 meanings / understandings: 1, Standard bowl for eating out of. 2. Good looking person (I know this is used by straights (OK teenage girls about boys in the 80s) and may be dated - unsure if it is also used by queers) (apologies if I used queers incorrectly). 3. Polari for bottom.
An other episode to analyse would be 'That 70's Show' season 1 episode Eric's Buddy. How the subject of homosexuality in a teen tv show is treated. And how bad I wanted Joseph Gordon levitt to be my boyfriend.
I'm so happy you posted this! I've been watching Frasier a lot recently. I actually found your channel a couple of days ago because I was looking for a video that discussed how many LGBT people worked on Frasier and how LGBT issues are presented and handled in the show. I hope you can make more videos about gay references in Frasier!
This is my absolute favorite episode of Fraser and it is one of my favorite shows. Matt, you did a great job breaking the episode down. Truly a delightful dive. Keep up the good work. My cousin, Micheal Huddleston, was in an episode with Dan Butler and the two were pals for a few years, I understand. Sadly, Micheal's career never blossomed like he'd hoped, but his dad was rather famous. The dad played the Big Libowski, for example. If you seen a Western made after WWII, David Huddleston was likely in it.
Thank you for making this series. With my family, while they love and accept me, my queerness, and queerness in general, is always vaguely ignored. Because of this show, when going on nostalgia trips about the sitcoms we watched growing up I'm able to open up the conversation to how they contributed to queer representation.
God, I love your channel. I've had a lot of gay friends in my life, but we never discussed any of the topics you discuss. It just never came up, because I never asked and they never mentioned it. Hell, I never even thought to ask these kinds of questions. A person's sexual preference is so insignificant, in the grand scheme of things. But with your channel, you're opening my mind to situations I've never had to deal with. I've never really thought about how difficult it is to be gay in a mostly heterosexual society, aside from having to deal with the idiots who think being gay is "a sin" or would be prone to violence.
By the way, have you ever done a show, focusing on The Jeffersons episode in which George's old Navy buddy, who he hasn't seen in years, comes by. His friend had a sex change and it blew George's mind. I was born in 1974. It aired in 1977, but I caught it in reruns years later. It was the first time I had ever heard of someone being transgender. Here's the episode in question. I wish I could find a better quality. ua-cam.com/video/wlwCGyffQwA/v-deo.html
As a queer person born in the 90's who didn't really come to terms with her queerness 'til the mid 2010's, I have to say I am very much enjoying this series of videos discussing the depictions of LGBT individuals in shows that were simultaneously a part of my formative years that I knew as reruns: Friends, Frasier, but also other and/or older shows, All in the Family, Golden Girls. Since they're tv shows they are somewhat more elusive and haven't been set up on a pedestal in the history of queer representation the way some movies are. Looking at queerness in older tv shows through this series has been enlightening and enjoyable. Thank you for your efforts to examine them :)
thanks so much for this series, coming from a straight cis dude, it serves as an enlightening window for me! Always loved fraiser, so I'm glad to hear that it hasn't aged as poorly as other 90's sitcoms from an lgbt lens.
I think it really helps that there were a lot of LGBTQ people working on the show -- that keeps it from feeling super inauthentic and. outdated, like Friends.
Well done, I remember watching this show, it’s wonderful to know the history behind such funny people. You brought such warmth to one of my favorite shows.
There was also a gay couple on "Northern Exposure". They had a marriage/commitment ceremony and cut away at the kiss but the guys heads seem to come together fuzzily/blurred. They were semi-regular cast and seemed well adjusted, quiet, and very much in love.
I really like this channel! I love learning about the backgrounds of these episodes the shows I loved as a kid and understanding why they were made as they were and, really, why they just felt more natural than other representations of such situations. Thank you and stay awesome! 🌼
Crazy how the little the "subtle signals" have changed over years. Even now if I wanna know if a cute girl is queer I tell her "I love your style/hair" lol
Maybe for next Culture Cruise you could take a closer look at Married...with Children? I remember an episode where Al former a connection with a gay man whose husband was spending all his time with Peggy. Maybe there's a Culture Cruise episode somewhere in here.
I have to confess I'm not a huge fan of that particular show BUT I could probably be persuaded! The gay character was played by the voice of Homer Simpson, weirdly enough.
Only just discovered your channel and just binged about a dozen episodes. Thank you so much for this! I also can't wait to start listening to Queens of Adventure!
Holy shit I loved Frasier as a kid. This was one of my favorite episodes as a kid. I just get to appreciate it more as an adult with better context. Man this was great television.
I was always gay since a small kid, I can remember liking boys around the age of 6 and was always kinda of different from other boys. We lived in Central California which is very conservative and Republican. When I was 17 and graduating from high school my Aunt outed me to my whole family and said that if anyone in the family supported me would not be welcome in their lives and church, my family all belong to new born christians that preached from her home and they all went there. My single mom freaked out and within 3 months I was told I had to go and for the luck of my gay friends I had a place to live. My Gay Mom took me in who also had 2 other gay teenagers who had no other places to live but we all made it work. This was back in the 1987 and a dangerous time for openly gay people. I tried to go to Jr. College for 2 years but had to get a full time job because of bills and life stuff but meet my boyfriend at the same time. That was 1988 and we have been together ever since celebrating 30 years together and 10 years of marriage. We have had great times and hard times but together we have made it through. It took 7 years of separation before my Mom made the first attempt to contact me by coming to the only gay bar in town and asking for me, thank goodness I wasn't working that night lol but I worked up the courage and actually meet with her and we mended our fractured relationship. We now take care of her due to major medical issues and I'm happy that we mended our relationship. I've gotten close to a few cousins and my brother but my aunt is still a hateful person and occasionally sends me X-mas cards that says we love you but your still going to hell. I ignore her but am still hurt because we were really close while I was a child and young adult. But life moves on and I try not to dwell in the past. Her son, my cousin loves me and my husband and invites us to many family functions which would kill her if she knew and I love him for it. My husband family loves me too but it took 10 years, but it was the same for each of their children. Nobody was good enough for their children you just had to wear them down. We have be discriminated, bashed, and the usual hatefulness of being gay, but we survive because we have each other. We have been together longer than any of our siblings who all have been divorced and remarried because we have true love and we work at it because what we have is to precious to loose.
As a straight guy I have "Frasiered" myself into a few conversations like this. Where to me we're just two guys having a conversation that is somewhat bawdy and somewhat personal. Then suddenly I'm like "WHOA! How'd we get here?" Then I look back on what was just said and I'm like "Ohhhhh." For some reason that makes this episode personally funnier to me now.
Frasier is still one of my fav shows. I weirdly always had a little crush on niles.... hahaha I think i liked how witty and smart he was. Plus David Hyde Pierce is adorable. When I found out he was gay it just made me like him more. I didn't know about John Mahoney but that's awesome as well.
As always, I love your breakdown and analysis of LGBT representation in the media, especially in years past. It's crazy to see just how different the world has become in 25 years. I'm grateful that such a song and dance isn't as necessary anymore for safety, but I appreciate work like yours that really shows where the culture was at the time with regards to LGBT issues and thus preserving a bit of our history that is often overlooked outside of famous examples. I'll never know what it was like to be gay in th 70s, 80s, or 90s, but these culture cruise episodes help to give me at least a little understanding of what that meant at the time.
It’s so strange for me to hear about these things back in the ‘90. Being bi living in western-Europe, I’ve never felt discriminated against. My family has always been very accepting and most of the people I know that happen to be part of the LGBT community aren’t really discriminated among their peers. I have noticed older parents not understanding bisexuality, and considering that B in the acronym often gets forgotten when people have straight relationships, it kind of saddens me.
I am middle eastern where even straight people are sexually oppressed, to me the 90s seem to be hundreds of years in the future, dating on the D-low and and pretending not to be an atheist, you should count your blessings.
Some people are lucky, if I had come out during my highschool years I would have been beaten to a pulp at my christian school. Despite people being "liberal" christians. Even now I know I cannot come out to my dad as being bisexual, he would be furious. Even worse if he knew I was an atheist as well. It just depends on where you live, on how you are raised and the people you meet. But of course I am glad that you had no problems coming out.
@M1 yeah, most places in the middle east have been a mess recently. At home we still make jokes about how 'woke' the Saudi prince is because he suddenly came out with statements on how women might actually be people. Just ignore the fact that they still fund oppressive regimes in other countries because "our Islam is the best Islam". I can only imagine how hard it must be when religious rules that prevent people from being humans are made into judicial laws. Good luck nevertheless, I hope you find a home of your own where you can feel safe, being you. @Nathan Wubs my mum was fostered housed in a home with very strict Christian people when she was younger so sometimes when she talks about the bible and all the verses she had do memorize I can still hear the spite about it. We still make jokes about how the disco "paves the path to hell" (which is something they told her). Don't get me wrong, people have been dicks to me over my sexuality, but nothing to the extent that I didn't feel like I couldn't be honest about who I am. The great thing about being an adult is that you have the chance to make your own home and your own family where you can be you. That said, it still sucks when you have to almost lead a double life for your parents. I hope one day you and your dad can connect and be honest regardless.
I was always pretty fond of "Fathers and Sons," guest-starring David Ogden Stiers of M*A*S*H fame as Leland Barton, Frasier's mother's old assistant. He's effete, fussy, fond of sherry, etc. and gets on well with both Frasier and Niles. While the whole thing's mostly about Martin's relationship with his kids (Is he their genetic father? Would he love them if he weren't?), the reveal is that Barton's gay, and Hester was the only friend he trusted enough to confide in. Honestly, while they could've made it another comedy of errors, like "The Matchmaker" or "The Doctor is Out," the decision to make it a last-minute reveal underscores the flexibility of gay coding, particularly for people like Frasier who share relevant characteristics, and the pervasiveness of assumptions about "default" heterosexuality.
7:08 I know they wasn't out yet but this was clearly a jab at the two by the writers maybe to test the waters so they could see how people would react, this probably helped them come out since it was already assumed while watching this show, as a kid watching Frasier with no input from others me and my brother already thought that Frasier and Niles was already gay and we were maybe 11 & 12 at the time, I was shocked when watching the show in entirety one day that they wasn't and did have girlfriends, not that I could put my finger on what made them different then or now, they we're just different enough from what I was told was masculine in the 90s, I'm straight but I've dropped alot of these super macho tropes in recent years because I now realize that most of it is just peacocking for women and straight up misogyny, I'm becoming closer to the Frasier character now 😂😂
Coded language and behavior that's imperceptible to straight people is still very much a thing. I've definitely bought things on the basis of "yeah other lesbians understand this but my parents won't"
I always thought this was an awful, insulting episode. Think about it from Tom's perspective. Roz had the chance to clear up the misunderstanding, but didn't. Later he hears Niles and Martin laughing in the kitchen. Then he tells Niles he's dating Frasier, and Niles doesn't correct him. When he discovers Frasier isn't gay, I'd think it would occur to him that his gayness has been used all night as a way to humiliate Frasier, which I'd think would make Tom feel very insecure. Great way to welcome someone new to town and to work. I know this kind of humor depends on a madcap misunderstanding, but it seemed pretty cruel to Tom and no one learned anything.
Thank you, Matt. This was a master class that I can use in my discussions with my str8 nephew to explain why we get different things from the same movie or TV show
Damn i had no idea. I thought the only gay actor was NPH. I also didnt know so many gay men worked as writers. I wonder how many lesbians (or bi women) worked there too.
Matt, I was just catching up on my old friend Frasier now when I came upon the obituary of David Ogden Stiers, famous as Major Winchester on M*A*S*H, who made an appearance on Frasier. A subequent follow-up to that obit in The Guardian had this to say, "Your obituary to the wonderful David Ogden Stiers (21 April) makes mention of his appearance in a 2003 episode of Frasier. You say that in many ways his snobbish Winchester (in the TV series of M*A*S*H) was an antecedent of Frasier. But the central point of the episode was that Marty Crane (the equally wonderful John Mahoney) starts to question if he is the father of Frasier and Niles, because they share so many things in common with Leland, who had been very close to their mother. When Marty confronts Leland with his suspicions Leland says the reason he was so close to Marty’s wife was because she was the only person he could tell he was gay. How sad, therefore, that it should be another six years (at the age of 67) before the actor himself felt able to come out publicly and say he was gay. Bob Wood" I wonder if you could do a video on this? Citation: -www.theguardian.com/society/2018/apr/23/the-poignant-plot-of-the-frasier-episode-starring-david-ogden-stiers Manchester"
I can relate. I was born in the mid 70s and it often crosses my mind when the 90s are discussed now - in relation to limited LGBT visibility at the time - how that is was indeed truly limited but also so much better than than the situation in the 80s and 70s were (let alone decades further back).
+he 90's picked up where +he 80's lef+ off. we were s+ill freaked ou+ abou+ AIDS. we weren'+ ge++ing over conserva+ism when we elec+ed Clin+on.....I+ WAS SPLI+ BE+WEEN BUSH 1 AND PERO+. and when we looked a+ how cosmopoli+an and accep+ing Wes+ern Europe was +owards LGB+ FOLKS.......America was S+UCK IN 1950!
Put it this way, a few gay bars in my town still didn't have signs in the front with their name on it. It was more possible for gays/lesbians people to get fired, as sexual orientation was not included in equal rights ordinances. And let's not forget Matthew Shepard.
“Queer people have always had to live in entendre and be fluent in subtext for the sake of survival. As a result, we’re always looking for the meaning behind the meaning, even when none is intended.” I’ve always thought queer people were more socially adept than others.
LMAO!, I never noticed these subtext as a child...so CRAZY!!! god bless, keep up the great work. So much I missed on a second deeper level being a naive clueless Hetero kid.
My grandpa was a HUGE Frasier fan. He used to comment all the time about the gay rumors about the actors "What does it matter if they are? Doesn't change anything." One of the reasons I wasn't so scared to come out when I was old enough to accept it and understand it myself.
Your grandfather sounds like a great person. The world needs more people like him in it.
That's really fantastic. I'm glad your grandfather had that view and you were able to come out in an accepting environment where the topic wasn't some hugely taboo thing that no one wanted to acknowledge let alone talk about or associate with.
Jacob Schweitzer my grandparents won't even wish me a Happy Birthday anymore. I'm glad you have such a wonderful grandfather. Maybe I could borrow him.
@@Starmadien2019 That says more about them than you. Seeing as this is an eleventh month comment... You've likely had a birthday. So happy birthday :)
@@strawberries1186 my birthday was last month. So thanks, and don't worry I've made my own family
"That's impossible, Tom's not gay!"
"He seems to be under that impression."
lmao
The writing on this show was stupendous.
I had no idea Frasier had so many LGBT folk behind the scenes!! That's pretty awesome.
More like gay men. Where did he mention lb or t
Sealy Sikes okay but when straight people say ‘gay people’ then LGBT people get offended. they can’t win can they
@@stormcloudsabound maybe because being attracted to the same gender and changing your gender are 2 very different things?
@@SealySikes Where did he mention John Mahoney was gay? Him being unwilling to speak openly about his sexuality and aligning himself with LGBT projects could mean anything. Was he bi? Was he ace? Was he pan?
I was in a gay dude's actual bedroom, but missed all the subtext and I totally get why he didn't make a move. And he was the singer of a show I'd been to that night and had been swooning at from the audience. We met at the after-party, somehow I ended up doing a trip back to his place to "get something". And stupid me still nothing happened, I'm just like "wow your bedroom is so cool...". And I get it now, all these years later, it was up to me to signal safety. For me it was just bi-curiosity, for him there were stakes, and he was also just being a decent person about it. I could have had any number of reactions, he wasn't to know. There was interest on both sides and nothing doing. (Stupid stupid me, still kicking myself years later, he was cute as hell)
My first job was the summer before college at a bakery that shared a building with a flower shop. At the time I thought I was straight and had a boyfriend. This girl used to work in the flower shop next to me and started coming over every morning before I opened to make conversation and order a cinnamon roll. It took me about a year or two after the fact to realize she was 100% flirting with me while also trying to figure out if I liked girls too. It’s been years since then and I’m still kicking myself about it 😅 I can’t believe I missed the signals!
This was one of the best Fraiser episodes there was, but my favorite will always be "Ski lodge" Where Guy the ski instructor believes Niles, Daphney, and Annie are all gay and thus he chases after Niles, while Daphney chases Guy, Annie chases Niles and of course Niles is chasing Daphney.
Arghhhhhh that episode is SO GOOD
Matt Baume And out with dad. Another great episode.
That's definitely in my top favorites! One of my favs is of course the live radio mystery.
The episode with Patrick Stewart was one of the best
I never remember him mentioning a one night stand. "Let me see if I have this completely straight. All the lust, the hormones ricocheting off the walls and no one... was chasing me?"
There's even another layer to this, for me at least. Episodes like this were tools I used as a sort of barometer to gauge the reactions of friends and family in a time before I had publicly come out. Seeing how they reacted--and the dialogue it opened up--helped me get a feel for how they might react when I finally told them. The same applied to popular movies like 'Birdcage' and 'In & Out'.
For my dad, both times I came out, was basically him noticing that I never had boyfriends, hated when my mum wouldn't stop asking about boyfriends, and most obviously, I kept reading queer novels and going to queer film festivals. Eventually my dad just asked if there was something to all that.
peach slut Same, my mom is cool with will and grace, but the idea her kid could be anything but straight is apparently disgusting.
Sounds like a pretty good idea given that it's a tad sad that you had to do this in the first place.
@@happybunnyntx Her loss!
“That’s impossible, Tom’s not gay!”
“He seems to be under that impression.”
Lol! This is one of my favorite sitcoms. I had no idea so many people who worked on it were lgbt.
I think part of the reason why this episode of Frasier is funny rather than offensive (and way ahead of its time) is because the writers don't make Tom predatory and they make Frasier the one who's misreading signals rather than Tom, who is making plausible false assumptions about Frasier's sexuality, and when they do the big reveal, Frasier isn't disgusted by Tom being gay or hugely uncomfortable at the thought of being gay or other people thinking he's gay, he's just embarrassed that he made such a huge social fopaux and wasted Daphne *and Tom's* evenings.
I think that "Frasier" handled the subject of queerness tastefully and respectfully given 90s entertainment still made the joke that being gay or being thought of as gay was funny as a source of embarrassment or outright ridicule (for instance in "Friends," Chandler's dad being transgender *was* the punchline).
When i saw this i really wished Frasier was open to dating the guy. He seemed like a great person.
Yeah, but if he is a great guy, he can do better. Honestly speaking, Fraiser is kind of a shitbag.
Not only am I a gay man but I am also autistic which means I have issues with communication and coding. Knowing how much the gay community back then depends on different communication and social cues makes me very thankful I can use the internet to better learn and communicate, instead of risking dangerous situations just to be in a relationship.
marronVulpes1991 I'm an autistic lesbian and I agree with you completely. In my area violence against lesbians was just as bad as violence against gay men and honestly? If I was around back then I'd have no choice but celebacy. Zero ability to pick up on subtext/hints.
I hope you guys have it a lot better now :)
Being a miniority within miniority . . . Sounds like a potential nightmare.
Arunima Tiwari Things aren't perfect for us admittedly, but at least I'm hearing more about autism self-advocacy.
Plus I'm very thankful to have a boyfriend who is both supportive and understanding. :)
marronVulpes1991 That is fantastic! I wish you both the best.
I'm gay, and very likely on the autism spectrum. I've gotten better at subtle cues. I can even detect when a man is hitting on me (outside of gay bars/events). The problem is I'm too afraid to act on it in case the situation turns violent and I don't know how to get out. Or at best, dealing with the drama of a potentially closeted gay man.
Sometimes my abilities can be a bit useless LOL.
BULLDOG IS GAY?! It makes is his specific character much more hilarious. The "flamboyant Hetero" character. Well done .
(I know the actor name/nickname isnt bulldog.)
so many gay people worked on frasier
Fábio Rodrigues “Bulldog” is played by gay actor Dan Butler.
Says a lot about his talent as an actor.
@ULGROTHA Or, y'know, his much more famous role based around his character being a ladies man...
@ULGROTHA NPH playing his "real self" is hilarious! He reaches new lows in the Harold and Kumar Christmas movie.
Straight millennial dude here. These videos help me really empathise with the complexities and difficulties of being gay, and appreciate how far we've come as a society. It makes me sad to think there are still people in the world, and to a lesser extent still in the west, who are afraid of being free with who they are and who they can love. I'm so grateful to live now rather than in previous generations.Thank you Matt for the excellent and important videos.
My experience as a married, settled, out gay man (38) is that there are as many types of gay men as there are types of men.
But when I was 14 or so, there were no normal gay celebrities, only effeminate, camp showbusiness types. It was very confusing because my fear was that I would have to be like those men and act in that way. My hope is that young gay guys and girls now have loads of examples to look up to and not a narrow band. All my fear came from that.
Silverfirefly1 you’re also a millennial. if the original poster is 19 or younger they’re gen z. i really wish people would understand terms before throwing them around.
@@escarlit I didn't mention generations, the original poster briefly identified as a millennial. What is pushing your buttons?
Silverfirefly1 i know you didnt. but since you seem more sensible, i figured it made more sense to share the information with you.
i explained my frustration lol
@@escarlit Fair enough. I explained the other day to a friend that older millennials are becoming grandparents and that a new catch-all is needed for young people. The word is overused.
RIP John Mahoney
The strangest thing about this is how tom found frasier attractive at all.
Niles was HO++ER!
Frasier is total daddy material!!
Yeah, Bulldog was the hot gay guy at the station.
J Dominoes Oh the SHADE! LOL
The intelligence.
"It's almost a shame when the farce begins to unravel"
Yes! One of the particular joys of the episode is that the audience is encouraged to identify with Tom. There's another (worse) version of this episode where the scene with Roz doesn't happen and the audience finds out Tom is gay at the same time Frasier does. Instead, even straight people as clueless as Frasier are told the score early on, so they see the dinner date the way Tom sees it. I remember watching this in syndication and part of the delight of the episode for me is the fantasy world that Tom's presence creates; one where Frasier, Niles, and Martin are all gay. I think one of the painful things for a lot of LGBT people, especially back in the 90s, is the way it can create distance between you and your family, whether through outright rejection, the closet, or imperfect acceptance/grudging tolerance. It's that feeling of isolation that comes from most gay people having straight parents. And then, here's this lovely little scenario that Tom walks into, where Frasier's whole family is gay, and out, and a regular part of each other's lives! At least, for me, when I watch that episode, my brain conjures up a million possibilities for a Frasier show where Tom's perspective of the Crane family is the actual premise. It's such a lovely thing to imagine! And of course, the bubble bursts and the truth comes out, but... you still imagined it; even once everything is set straight, you still had this wonderful, fantastic glimpse into that alternate world... and probably, you liked it.
Also if you're looking for gay 90s sitcom deep cuts, I seem to remember several gay episodes on Northern Exposure? (OK, not the deepest cut, but NE definitely doesn't seem to have the cultural afterlife of like, Frasier or Friends)
"queer people have always had to live in entendre and become fluent in subtext for the sake of survival. as a result we are always listening for the meaning behind the meaning even when none is intended"
wowwwwwwwwww that explains it SOOO CLEARLY!!! thats a great quote man. great writing. i love you and these videos ❤️
What was particularly refreshing about this particular episode was the way in which they handled Frasier letting down Tom at the end. Up until them, TV comedies tackling homosexuality would use the gay character as the butt (pardon the pun) of the joke - with the main character almost running off screaming, side characters laughing and the gay character's feeling not even considered.
This episode was something of a first, with the side characters laughing not at Tom but at Frasier's complete lack of awareness. In the end, the final clear-up of the misunderstanding is done with no-one else around to laugh at Tom and Frasier being considerate of Tom's feelings and letting him down gently. Tom is treated with respect, empathy and understanding and not as some sex-mad predator.
Frasier was the Will and Grace before Will and Grace.... The gay subtext in that sitcom was so powerful, it didn't take a rocket scientist to see it...The personalities traits of Frasier and Niles opened the door for gay friendly shows without pushing the agenda in your face, slowly inviting the lifestyle without viewers even knowing it....The best scene in The Matchmaker was when Daphne walks into the room, catches on an immediately exiting.....probably my favorite episode..
And pulling the pads out of her bra as she goes, if I remember right.
Ed, this has always been my favorite episode, in terms of sheer consistency of laughs. The writing is so brilliant - the double entendres that flow the moment Tom enters the apartment...and the two opening scenes with Roz ain't too shabby either. I also love David Hyde Pierce's and John Mahoney's reactions once they learn what's happening...and Niles' ribbing as he breaks the news (by winning the toss!) to Frasier...and Kelsey's demureness when he has to confront Tom with the truth.
yes, that was the best, when Daphne overheard and takes the thing out of her bra or dress and turns around and walks back into her bedroom.
@@adrastos761 It gets the biggest laugh from me.. Walking into the room, snatched that bra, and practically walked out backward.. I roll every time..👏
Great video. Fraiser is one of my all time favorite series. Interesting to find out that it had such LGBT influence.
dnightwalker I agree. I enjoyed the show a lot for its comedy, and later learned of some of the LGBT cast. I had no idea though that there were so many cast and creators that aligned themselves with the LGBT community. A pleasant surprise to say the least. I wonder if they were out to each other before the show or how that revelation unfolded as they worked together.
I hope you'll cover more Frasier episodes in the future! The show had SO many queer plotlines and jokes over the years. Besides this episode, I can recall at least half a dozen episodes where the story revolves around one of the Cranes either being pursued by a gay man or being mistaken as one.
For example, there's an episode in which Martin pretends to be gay to avoid being set up with a woman he doesn't find attractive only to find himself being set up with a gay man instead, a farcical episode in which the Cranes go to a ski lodge and Niles ends up being chased by a French ski instructor called Guy, and one episode in which Frasier essentially starts dating a charismatic director played by Patrick Stewart and not wanting to admit that he's not actually gay because he's way too into the idea of being a part of an elegant power couple.
I'd love to hear your take on these episodes. Personally, I love Frasier, but sometimes I do wonder whether the show presented queerness as a punchline too many times. As a straight woman, I don't feel like I'm equipped to answer that question.
God I love frasier. Every two or three years I go through and watch all the episodes again once they feel fresh again.
The last line... These salads aren't going to toss themselves!
They’re calling again!
Do don dahhhhh
@@throwawayaccount7514 Thank you, Seattle, we love you! (Or whatever)
I'm straight but never had an issue with gay people, love Frasier and this is one of the best episodes of the show.
"Who was Frasier's ultimate love intrest?"
Me, an intellectual: Alistar Burke
I wondered why so many gay people loved Frasier I didn’t know so many gay people worked on it! (Except David Hyde pierce obviously)
Also niles is an iconic bisexual
Everyone on the show always knew Gill was gay even when he talked about his wife Debs who was in the army, I think.
it’s so weird hearing abt the special dialect in england and the need for double meanings for back in the day. I’m only 18 and in the closet so all of this information is new to me. I really love these videos
Thank you! I kind of wish Polari would come back so we could all talk to each other without worrying about straight people listening in.
To be strictly accurate, Polari wasn't quite a dialect, except maybe among a few of its more enthusiastic proponents. It was more an intricate collection of slang words, and it was largely confined to gay subculture in inner London areas (like Soho). It became more widely known - and was ironically killed off by - the characters Julian and Sandy in the 1960s radio comedy series 'Round The Horne.
"Yeah, I usually hang out in a place called Duke's. Great crowd, a lot of young cops."
Tom be like: sign me up!
(Oh, and sign me up, too)
Also, I think you should do another one of these for the episode of Frasier at the lodge when Niles has to say, "I'm not gay, Guy."
Fullmetal1890P he really says I’m not gay gee. Gee is the ski guy
@@throwawayaccount7514 Guy is the correct spelling. Pronunciation is Gee
My high school boyfriend was a stereotypical straight, white, football jock, with a fair bit of homophobia. But, my best friend at the time was semi-openly gay (to his friends and family), and aspiring to be a drag queen, and he accepted him (because he was FUNNY). One day we were walking and talking in the mall. I brought Frasier up, because I loved the show. He remarked that he LOVED the dad on the show, and that he wished when he got older he could be like him. I said "Oh, but you know that the guy who plays him is gay, right?" He was so shocked and in disbelief that a gay guy could possibly play such a great straight guy...I felt sorry for shattering this image he had, that I told him I was 'just kidding'...He was so relieved! I didn't have the heart to tell him about Bulldog (his other favorite on the show). I'll never forget that moment. After we broke up, I would see John Mahoney and giggle. I wonder if he ever found out the truth?
It's funny thinking about coded language because as a non-out trans man I sometimes refer to myself with masculine terms ("I feel like a grandpa" "just trying to be a gentleman" etc) and either people go "ahaha you mean *insert female term*!!" or they get it. Usually if they get it I'm like "ah, found a queer person!"
this is literally the truest thing I've ever heard. You slay dude
Just stumbled upon this video and absolutely love this analysis! I think one of the reasons Frasier still means so much to me after all these years is that it feels like a safe, understanding space for queerness. A large part of that is in the authentic portrayal of Frasier and Niles' a-typical masculinity throughout the show, and the way it presents this as authentic and valid as well as humorous. To me it reaches a point where it still does not really feel "dated", but rather like a very insightful reflection on the changing culture of the '90s. However, this video did raise one concern... If David Hyde Pierce wasn't out yet during the first seasons, what does that mean for his ICONIC glance in the camera after Frasier's "it means you're a gay man" speech in "My Coffee With Niles"? Because that look is queer comedy gold.
I never accepted that was a look to the cameras as a code. I remember him giving the same look when he was talking about the film Basic Instinct and other occasions when he did the same.
I read someone that when he started on Frasier he and his partner didn't even share an apartment because they were so afraid the press might find out. Obviously his colleagues knew but to think someone couldn't share a home with their partner out of fear is so sad.
Loved the mention of Polari. My first introduction to it was listening to old recordings of the BBC radio sketch show Round the Horne, where it was used by the characters Julian and Sandy. Here's some info from Wikipedia:
'Julian and Sandy were characters on the BBC radio comedy programme Round the Horne from 1965 to 1968 and were played by Hugh Paddick and Kenneth Williams respectively.
As well as being a successful comedy act, Julian and Sandy were notable for being two stereotypical camp homosexual characters in mainstream entertainment at a time when homosexual acts between men were illegal in the United Kingdom. The writers and cast thought the characters worked very well as they were not simply there to be the target of a joke: in fact most of the sketches revolved around Kenneth Horne's presumed ignorance being the target of their jokes. Paul Baker writes that these sketches, while mocking an oppressed gay identity, present gay people as cheerful, rather than "indexing unhappy, ashamed identities like those in films such as Victim (1961), A Taste of Honey (1961) and The Boys in the Band (1970), or the openly politicised identity adopted by members of the Gay Liberation Front".
Their use of Polari in sketches introduced the gay cant to a mass audience, and identified them as gay to those in the know. Although this prompted a brief revival, Round the Horne ultimately led to Polari's near-demise as a means of communication between gay men.'
What I love about them is that there may not be just a double entendre, but a triple! For example Dish could have 3 meanings / understandings: 1, Standard bowl for eating out of. 2. Good looking person (I know this is used by straights (OK teenage girls about boys in the 80s) and may be dated - unsure if it is also used by queers) (apologies if I used queers incorrectly). 3. Polari for bottom.
An other episode to analyse would be 'That 70's Show' season 1 episode Eric's Buddy. How the subject of homosexuality in a teen tv show is treated. And how bad I wanted Joseph Gordon levitt to be my boyfriend.
Martin Kronström Joseph Gordon Levitt!? You have awesome taste, my dude.
Hey, I'm a straight woman, and I found that kiss with Eric hot!
I rewatched that episode just about a week ago - It was actually pretty well handled! Trippy to see it brought up out in the wild like this, hahaha
JGL is pretty gay in the film Mysterious Skin.
I'd have straight guys tell me they'd consider Joseph Gordon Leavitt
I love that you focused on this, I've always loved how the show approached this topic
Thanks! I've got a bunch more Frasier videos on my channel.
I'm so happy you posted this! I've been watching Frasier a lot recently. I actually found your channel a couple of days ago because I was looking for a video that discussed how many LGBT people worked on Frasier and how LGBT issues are presented and handled in the show. I hope you can make more videos about gay references in Frasier!
Awesome, thank you for watching!
This was my absolute favourite episode of the entire show, I nearly died from laughter. Thanks for the trip down memory lane
That is awesome knowing how many people were gay in this show, backstage.
This is my absolute favorite episode of Fraser and it is one of my favorite shows. Matt, you did a great job breaking the episode down. Truly a delightful dive. Keep up the good work.
My cousin, Micheal Huddleston, was in an episode with Dan Butler and the two were pals for a few years, I understand. Sadly, Micheal's career never blossomed like he'd hoped, but his dad was rather famous. The dad played the Big Libowski, for example. If you seen a Western made after WWII, David Huddleston was likely in it.
Thank you for making this series.
With my family, while they love and accept me, my queerness, and queerness in general, is always vaguely ignored. Because of this show, when going on nostalgia trips about the sitcoms we watched growing up I'm able to open up the conversation to how they contributed to queer representation.
This is our all time favourite of Frasier. Absolutely hillarious. Whether you're gay or not, love is all that matters.
I love that DHP had the best gay one-liners. I think he had fun with that.
The closing theme includes a reference to "tossed salads"
Sure does
And scrambled eggs.......which doesn’t mean a thing lol
Tossed salad and scrambled eggs is a reference to Frasier being a psychiatrist dealing with his patients who are all mixed up
God, I love your channel. I've had a lot of gay friends in my life, but we never discussed any of the topics you discuss. It just never came up, because I never asked and they never mentioned it. Hell, I never even thought to ask these kinds of questions. A person's sexual preference is so insignificant, in the grand scheme of things. But with your channel, you're opening my mind to situations I've never had to deal with.
I've never really thought about how difficult it is to be gay in a mostly heterosexual society, aside from having to deal with the idiots who think being gay is "a sin" or would be prone to violence.
By the way, have you ever done a show, focusing on The Jeffersons episode in which George's old Navy buddy, who he hasn't seen in years, comes by. His friend had a sex change and it blew George's mind. I was born in 1974. It aired in 1977, but I caught it in reruns years later. It was the first time I had ever heard of someone being transgender.
Here's the episode in question. I wish I could find a better quality.
ua-cam.com/video/wlwCGyffQwA/v-deo.html
Look at that. Over a month later, and my question has been snubbed. Wtf?
As a queer person born in the 90's who didn't really come to terms with her queerness 'til the mid 2010's, I have to say I am very much enjoying this series of videos discussing the depictions of LGBT individuals in shows that were simultaneously a part of my formative years that I knew as reruns: Friends, Frasier, but also other and/or older shows, All in the Family, Golden Girls. Since they're tv shows they are somewhat more elusive and haven't been set up on a pedestal in the history of queer representation the way some movies are. Looking at queerness in older tv shows through this series has been enlightening and enjoyable. Thank you for your efforts to examine them :)
I can't get enough of the sailor shirt. Great video! 😊
thanks so much for this series, coming from a straight cis dude, it serves as an enlightening window for me! Always loved fraiser, so I'm glad to hear that it hasn't aged as poorly as other 90's sitcoms from an lgbt lens.
I think it really helps that there were a lot of LGBTQ people working on the show -- that keeps it from feeling super inauthentic and. outdated, like Friends.
"That's a hell of a view..."
"It's even better from the bedroom!"
Well done, I remember watching this show, it’s wonderful to know the history behind such funny people. You brought such warmth to one of my favorite shows.
There was also a gay couple on "Northern Exposure". They had a marriage/commitment ceremony and cut away at the kiss but the guys heads seem to come together fuzzily/blurred. They were semi-regular cast and seemed well adjusted, quiet, and very much in love.
One TV writer wrote that the show is "basically about two gay men who happen to be sexually attracted to women."
I really like this channel!
I love learning about the backgrounds of these episodes the shows I loved as a kid and understanding why they were made as they were and, really, why they just felt more natural than other representations of such situations.
Thank you and stay awesome!
🌼
Crazy how the little the "subtle signals" have changed over years. Even now if I wanna know if a cute girl is queer I tell her "I love your style/hair" lol
OMG, that shot at 4:07 is so meme-worthy lol. Great video as always Matt!!
it is!!!!!!!!
Maybe for next Culture Cruise you could take a closer look at Married...with Children? I remember an episode where Al former a connection with a gay man whose husband was spending all his time with Peggy. Maybe there's a Culture Cruise episode somewhere in here.
I have to confess I'm not a huge fan of that particular show BUT I could probably be persuaded! The gay character was played by the voice of Homer Simpson, weirdly enough.
Jake Wilson , AL hated his wife and would have left her for that butch lesbian if she did not have a vagina.
Matt Baume what about the fact that amanda bearse (Marcy) is gay? And played Marcy’s lesbian cousin in a later episode?
I believe that's the first ever reference on a mainstream show to gay marriage.
Brilliant, illuminating analysis - and edited so that the jokes still land! Amazing work.
Matt certainly knows his subject matter. As usual, that was an interesting breakdown of a TV episode.
This is one of my favorite episodes of "Frasier" and one of my all-time favorite episodes out of any sitcom! 🤣🤣🤣🤣
AMAZING analysis, Matt! Had never been a Frasier fan, I think I am now thanks to you.
I had NO IDEA the actor who played Bulldog was gay! 😲 Or that there was speculation about John Mahoney.
So well written Matt! Great work!
Only just discovered your channel and just binged about a dozen episodes. Thank you so much for this! I also can't wait to start listening to Queens of Adventure!
Aww yay! Hope you enjoy the podcast -- let me know what you think!
Holy shit I loved Frasier as a kid. This was one of my favorite episodes as a kid. I just get to appreciate it more as an adult with better context. Man this was great television.
*mind blown* I didn't know that about palare. Now the song 'Piccadilly Palare' makes sense to me. The more you know...
OH MY GOD WE HAVE A LANGUAGE??!!
It really should be taught in schools.
I was always gay since a small kid, I can remember liking boys around the age of 6 and was always kinda of different from other boys. We lived in Central California which is very conservative and Republican. When I was 17 and graduating from high school my Aunt outed me to my whole family and said that if anyone in the family supported me would not be welcome in their lives and church, my family all belong to new born christians that preached from her home and they all went there. My single mom freaked out and within 3 months I was told I had to go and for the luck of my gay friends I had a place to live. My Gay Mom took me in who also had 2 other gay teenagers who had no other places to live but we all made it work. This was back in the 1987 and a dangerous time for openly gay people. I tried to go to Jr. College for 2 years but had to get a full time job because of bills and life stuff but meet my boyfriend at the same time. That was 1988 and we have been together ever since celebrating 30 years together and 10 years of marriage. We have had great times and hard times but together we have made it through. It took 7 years of separation before my Mom made the first attempt to contact me by coming to the only gay bar in town and asking for me, thank goodness I wasn't working that night lol but I worked up the courage and actually meet with her and we mended our fractured relationship. We now take care of her due to major medical issues and I'm happy that we mended our relationship. I've gotten close to a few cousins and my brother but my aunt is still a hateful person and occasionally sends me X-mas cards that says we love you but your still going to hell. I ignore her but am still hurt because we were really close while I was a child and young adult. But life moves on and I try not to dwell in the past. Her son, my cousin loves me and my husband and invites us to many family functions which would kill her if she knew and I love him for it. My husband family loves me too but it took 10 years, but it was the same for each of their children. Nobody was good enough for their children you just had to wear them down. We have be discriminated, bashed, and the usual hatefulness of being gay, but we survive because we have each other. We have been together longer than any of our siblings who all have been divorced and remarried because we have true love and we work at it because what we have is to precious to loose.
I think I’ve found my new favourite channel
Aww thank you, you're my new favorite commenter.
the algorithm might be think I’m gay because I like Frasier
I absolutely love your videos & the lessons behind them. Keep up the good work. 👍🏻
I honesty thought Miles was gay when I caught my first episode lol
Emma Star Niles
As a straight guy I have "Frasiered" myself into a few conversations like this. Where to me we're just two guys having a conversation that is somewhat bawdy and somewhat personal. Then suddenly I'm like "WHOA! How'd we get here?" Then I look back on what was just said and I'm like "Ohhhhh." For some reason that makes this episode personally funnier to me now.
Frasier is still one of my fav shows. I weirdly always had a little crush on niles.... hahaha I think i liked how witty and smart he was. Plus David Hyde Pierce is adorable. When I found out he was gay it just made me like him more. I didn't know about John Mahoney but that's awesome as well.
You know which movie I'd like you to review, Matt? "To Wong Foo, Thanks For Everything, Julie Newmar"
As always, I love your breakdown and analysis of LGBT representation in the media, especially in years past. It's crazy to see just how different the world has become in 25 years. I'm grateful that such a song and dance isn't as necessary anymore for safety, but I appreciate work like yours that really shows where the culture was at the time with regards to LGBT issues and thus preserving a bit of our history that is often overlooked outside of famous examples. I'll never know what it was like to be gay in th 70s, 80s, or 90s, but these culture cruise episodes help to give me at least a little understanding of what that meant at the time.
It’s so strange for me to hear about these things back in the ‘90. Being bi living in western-Europe, I’ve never felt discriminated against. My family has always been very accepting and most of the people I know that happen to be part of the LGBT community aren’t really discriminated among their peers. I have noticed older parents not understanding bisexuality, and considering that B in the acronym often gets forgotten when people have straight relationships, it kind of saddens me.
I am middle eastern where even straight people are sexually oppressed, to me the 90s seem to be hundreds of years in the future, dating on the D-low and and pretending not to be an atheist, you should count your blessings.
Some people are lucky, if I had come out during my highschool years I would have been beaten to a pulp at my christian school. Despite people being "liberal" christians. Even now I know I cannot come out to my dad as being bisexual, he would be furious. Even worse if he knew I was an atheist as well. It just depends on where you live, on how you are raised and the people you meet.
But of course I am glad that you had no problems coming out.
@M1 yeah, most places in the middle east have been a mess recently. At home we still make jokes about how 'woke' the Saudi prince is because he suddenly came out with statements on how women might actually be people. Just ignore the fact that they still fund oppressive regimes in other countries because "our Islam is the best Islam". I can only imagine how hard it must be when religious rules that prevent people from being humans are made into judicial laws. Good luck nevertheless, I hope you find a home of your own where you can feel safe, being you.
@Nathan Wubs my mum was fostered housed in a home with very strict Christian people when she was younger so sometimes when she talks about the bible and all the verses she had do memorize I can still hear the spite about it. We still make jokes about how the disco "paves the path to hell" (which is something they told her). Don't get me wrong, people have been dicks to me over my sexuality, but nothing to the extent that I didn't feel like I couldn't be honest about who I am. The great thing about being an adult is that you have the chance to make your own home and your own family where you can be you. That said, it still sucks when you have to almost lead a double life for your parents. I hope one day you and your dad can connect and be honest regardless.
This was fascinating! I'm happy this popped up in my recommended! :)
Tom seems to be the style inspiration for Brian David Gilbert
Omggggg yes they're hair twins
thank you! i was looking for this comment
I knew Tom looked familiar.
IVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS COMMENT YES
I was always pretty fond of "Fathers and Sons," guest-starring David Ogden Stiers of M*A*S*H fame as Leland Barton, Frasier's mother's old assistant. He's effete, fussy, fond of sherry, etc. and gets on well with both Frasier and Niles. While the whole thing's mostly about Martin's relationship with his kids (Is he their genetic father? Would he love them if he weren't?), the reveal is that Barton's gay, and Hester was the only friend he trusted enough to confide in. Honestly, while they could've made it another comedy of errors, like "The Matchmaker" or "The Doctor is Out," the decision to make it a last-minute reveal underscores the flexibility of gay coding, particularly for people like Frasier who share relevant characteristics, and the pervasiveness of assumptions about "default" heterosexuality.
7:08 I know they wasn't out yet but this was clearly a jab at the two by the writers maybe to test the waters so they could see how people would react, this probably helped them come out since it was already assumed while watching this show, as a kid watching Frasier with no input from others me and my brother already thought that Frasier and Niles was already gay and we were maybe 11 & 12 at the time, I was shocked when watching the show in entirety one day that they wasn't and did have girlfriends, not that I could put my finger on what made them different then or now, they we're just different enough from what I was told was masculine in the 90s, I'm straight but I've dropped alot of these super macho tropes in recent years because I now realize that most of it is just peacocking for women and straight up misogyny, I'm becoming closer to the Frasier character now 😂😂
Absolutely LOVE that episode.
It is so surprising that Frazier had so many Gay men involved, because of Kelsey Grammar's personality and politics.
Kelsey knew what worked for the character.
These are fascinating glimpses into the collective American psyche regarding the LGBT community.
Coded language and behavior that's imperceptible to straight people is still very much a thing. I've definitely bought things on the basis of "yeah other lesbians understand this but my parents won't"
Thanks for that: brought back fantastic memories of watching this series with my housemate and friends.
Oh my, you're so amazing at this. I love your take on gay media. You're adorable too!
I always thought this was an awful, insulting episode. Think about it from Tom's perspective. Roz had the chance to clear up the misunderstanding, but didn't. Later he hears Niles and Martin laughing in the kitchen. Then he tells Niles he's dating Frasier, and Niles doesn't correct him. When he discovers Frasier isn't gay, I'd think it would occur to him that his gayness has been used all night as a way to humiliate Frasier, which I'd think would make Tom feel very insecure. Great way to welcome someone new to town and to work. I know this kind of humor depends on a madcap misunderstanding, but it seemed pretty cruel to Tom and no one learned anything.
That boss actor guy is wicked good looking. I feel like Frasier probably had a lot more impact on my sexuality than I recognized.
The text of your review is simply great! Thank you! :-D
Great introspection on the series, and this episode, which always felt to me layered w/ a lot of "subtle" jokes, as well as the series at times too.
One of my favourite episodes of Frasier. We need more comedies like this now. Also, I'm loving the outfit.
thank you... for existing
Eli Nathan ❤
Thank you, Matt. This was a master class that I can use in my discussions with my str8 nephew to explain why we get different things from the same movie or TV show
Damn i had no idea. I thought the only gay actor was NPH. I also didnt know so many gay men worked as writers. I wonder how many lesbians (or bi women) worked there too.
I love your channel and I love Frasier. This video is a stellar analysis of this episode!
Matt, I was just catching up on my old friend Frasier now when I came upon the obituary of David Ogden Stiers, famous as Major Winchester on M*A*S*H, who made an appearance on Frasier. A subequent follow-up to that obit in The Guardian had this to say,
"Your obituary to the wonderful David Ogden Stiers (21 April) makes mention of his appearance in a 2003 episode of Frasier. You say that in many ways his snobbish Winchester (in the TV series of M*A*S*H) was an antecedent of Frasier. But the central point of the episode was that Marty Crane (the equally wonderful John Mahoney) starts to question if he is the father of Frasier and Niles, because they share so many things in common with Leland, who had been very close to their mother. When Marty confronts Leland with his suspicions Leland says the reason he was so close to Marty’s wife was because she was the only person he could tell he was gay.
How sad, therefore, that it should be another six years (at the age of 67) before the actor himself felt able to come out publicly and say he was gay.
Bob Wood"
I wonder if you could do a video on this?
Citation:
-www.theguardian.com/society/2018/apr/23/the-poignant-plot-of-the-frasier-episode-starring-david-ogden-stiers
Manchester"
wish i could subscribe twice...this channel is so awesome and insightful....
Aw, thank you thank you!
As someone who came of age in the '70s and '80s it's funny to hear people talk of how awful the '90s were.
I can relate. I was born in the mid 70s and it often crosses my mind when the 90s are discussed now - in relation to limited LGBT visibility at the time - how that is was indeed truly limited but also so much better than than the situation in the 80s and 70s were (let alone decades further back).
+he 90's picked up where +he 80's lef+ off. we were s+ill freaked ou+ abou+ AIDS. we weren'+ ge++ing over conserva+ism when we elec+ed Clin+on.....I+ WAS SPLI+ BE+WEEN BUSH 1 AND PERO+. and when we looked a+ how cosmopoli+an and accep+ing Wes+ern Europe was +owards LGB+ FOLKS.......America was S+UCK IN 1950!
Put it this way, a few gay bars in my town still didn't have signs in the front with their name on it. It was more possible for gays/lesbians people to get fired, as sexual orientation was not included in equal rights ordinances. And let's not forget Matthew Shepard.
“Queer people have always had to live in entendre and be fluent in subtext for the sake of survival. As a result, we’re always looking for the meaning behind the meaning, even when none is intended.” I’ve always thought queer people were more socially adept than others.
Missed you, @Matt Baume! I guess youTube had been hiding you from me. Good work!
Glad to have you back!
LMAO!, I never noticed these subtext as a child...so CRAZY!!! god bless, keep up the great work. So much I missed on a second deeper level being a naive clueless Hetero kid.
Most unrealistic part of this episode is anyone being attracted to frasier.
I mean ... there's someone for everyone out there?