Whoops! Accidental Homophobia With Maude
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- Опубліковано 3 лип 2024
- On an early-1970s episode of Norman Lear's sitcom Maude, Bea Arthur is eager for everyone to see that she has a gay best friend. But despite the friendship, she might harbor some homophobic bigotry that she wasn't even aware of -- just like the rest of the country, which was at the time just starting to confront decades of implicit bias in the wake of the Stonewall Riots.
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Watch Maude streaming here: amzn.to/2IxbZF5 - Розваги
By laughing at the notion that Barry could be somehow equal or superior to Walter, Barry thinks Maude is implying that Barry is inately somehow less of a man, or less of a person because he's gay. That's exactly why Barry gets mad. Previous to this, Barry didn't think Maude felt that way, and Barry IS a prickly sort, so in my opinion, the way the episode plays out makes sense. I think another theme in the episode is, despite Maude's outward knee jerk liberal Canonization, just because someone is gay (or in other cases in the show a minority) it doesn't automatically make them a great person. People are complex, and Maude likely overlooks/forgives Barry being a dick to Walter because she enjoys the optics of having a gay friend. This is actually quite a brilliant episode. Thank you for featuring it.
That's exactly how I interpreted it as well. By her laughing, he got the notion that she was implying that there's nothing her husband has to feel threatened by because he isn't a 'real' man anyways. Granted some might argue his reaction to take the nuclear option on their relationship could be seen as a bit drastic.
However, I think the notion of "many a truth is said in jest" is certainly applied here. Since I would be lying by saying were I in Barry's shoes I do things totally different with absolute certainty. Because honestly, the backstab of prejudice from someone you thought was an ally and friend stings a hell of a lot more than the hateful ramblings of an out and out bigot.
Least the open bigot is honest about their vile views and makes it easy to not associate with them. But someone who's hiding their actual views can either make you gaslight yourself in self-doubt or when the sucker punch comes in a moment of unguarded choice of words it can be hard not to recoil in self-defense of 'well if that's how you truly feel then screw you and so long.".
@@ASymbolicSymbol Yes! Which was what Maude was all about. The flip side of Archie Bunker. Archie hated people simply because they were different. Maude professed to LOVE people simply because they were different. She wanted to look like a modern, open minded person so much so that she never dealt with any societal prejudices that had been instilled in her over the years. So, yes, I agree that Barry sees the laughing as a backstab. And, he a flawed person, so he doesn't try to understand the underlying reasons Maude laughed, he just cuts her off. SymbolicSymbol, I was alive (though just a child) when this episode first aired. I really think fully understanding it is a generational thing. I don't at all want to denigrate millennials, there's enough of that out there, but they simply don't have the information to get this, through no fault of their own.
I think that's a great interpretation. It could be that Maude's laughter exposes to Barry that she never really cared about him as a person. In that respect, Walter kicking him out "because I don't like you as a person" indicates that he's given Barry more consideration than Maude has!
@@MattBaume Yes, Matt! Exactly. Maude wanted to appear cosmopolitan, bohemian, and open minded so she never considers Barry as a person. Not even enough to just tell him "lighten up on Walter, he's my husband." Unlike Archie Bunker, Maude has her heart in the right place, or at least directed toward the right place. But on the level that she doesn't see Barry as anything but a gay man, she's as bad as Archie is.
@@MattBaume By the way, Matt, when you pointed out that the "infer/imply" joke had some meaning in the episode beyond it just being a joke, I was pretty blown away. That level of writing is almost never seen it sitcoms. Kudos for catching it. Rod Parker is the credited writer, and he's actually still around and still working. Maybe we should contact him!
"The only one we know for sure isn't a queen is The Queen" lmfao that's actually a great one
And "allegedly" very true.
Yeah that one was my favourite too😂
Oh man that "can we just be friends" joke is really really good
"let me tell you something Mary!" sounds like how straight girls talk to their token gay friends now. Maude really predicted the GBF trope
@Watson Everly ok that raises the question of why Maude knew that then. Gay writer(s)?
@@samllyn Probably. Norman Lear was brilliant and progressive, and he walked the walk of liberal/progressive politics.
It also reminds me of the way a lot of queer people talk to other queer people. Sometime affectionately and sometimes just being jerks but yeah we do it too.
@@redbyrd247 Yes! A lot of the gay men I knew from my time as a gamer, er gaymer, called each other "she." I don't recall any of them giving each other names like Mary or Susan or whatever.
It also sounds like every straight woman who watches drag race than starts talking to their gay friends with everything they hear on the show...If I hear one more straight woman say “byeeeeeeeeeee” to me I’ll scream.
This exact thing happened to me in the late 1970s when my best straight friend literally couldn’t stop laughing at some “gay” thing I did. When your close friend stops laughing with you and laughs hysterically at you, sadly it’s time to go.
I’m sorry that happened (though not surprised). It must have been painful.
I fucking love Bea Arthur. She will always be my favorite golden girl. And she was an amazing person as well as an amazing actress.
I had an absolutely lovely aunt who closely resembled Maude/Bea Arthur and her husband (my uncle) really closely resembled Rodney Dangerfield. Luckily, they only looked like them.
She really was...I was stage managing a production that was about to close, and a play starring Bea was following our production. That meant we had to schedule rehearsals etc around both productions. I often would arrive early for my duties, and watch their rehearsals. She was so funny, and down to earth...never played the diva, and she totally could have, our entire cast was in love with her💞
I like how she said "ADORE" just perfect
Oh, shoot. Which part of the video was that? Oh, heck. Maybe I'll just rewatch it! ;) :P
That's the housekeeper from Mary Poppins!
Also 0:11 (:
Oh gosh yes, so strange to see Ellen from Mary Poppins appear here!!!
I think we all want to feel desired - As a gay man myself, if a woman laughed at me when someone suggested I may make a good boyfriend, I would feel the sting, regardless if I could ever return the affection. Am I not attractive?, not manly enough?... ect. ect. I would think to myself. "What's wrong with me?", I might wonder.
In my life, I've had to explain to many a women, that I don't feel attractive to them. Not due to their not being pretty, It's just not my thing. Now If I laughed at the suggestion that I'd ever hook up with them, they may think it's because they were not pretty enough and it might hurt their feelings.
The Barry strikes me as being someone who thinks VERY highly of himself, not only for his intellectual prowess, but also quite possibly considers himself a catch. The fact that he's laughed at by Maude, even tho he's not interested in Maude physically, is a blow to his ego, it may put into question his elevated self worth to his mind.
Then there's Barry's place on the Kinsey scale to consider. Perhaps Barry, while not physically attracted to Maude, considers his intellectual relationship with Maude to be quite intimate.
Similar to an episode of WILL & GRACE when Grace's mother (despite knowing Will is gay) suggests he and Grace should marry. Will laughs. "Please, even if I was straight, I would NEVER marry Grace"
Maude's laughter and the statement "just look at him" is pretty clear to me, and I understand why Barry left. Her statement and laughter are both dehumanizing and emasculating. Everyone, including Maude, realizes that Maude keeps Barry around as a sexless circus freak, a pet, and as stated earlier, a shiny new bauble to parade around. Matt Baum even sets the understanding up perfectly with the "imply/infer" stuff: Maude is implying something and the viewers are left to infer. Yes, that level of extra-textual reading is odd for a show from the 70s, but it's not when we're talking about holdovers from the wink-wink nod-nod culture before the sexual revolution. I need to see this episode now, it's so en pointe. Thank you, Matt, I think this is one of your best episodes to date.
Maude was always hardest on Maude. That was Norman Lear's hallmark on his shows, they were always hardest on the lead--Archie Bunker, George Jefferson, etc...
Absolutely!! He humanized both the victims of prejudice and the perpetrators. Norman was teaching us all how to be tolerant of each other. To accept each other. He also wanted the left to not be so accusatory, as that was a mixture of hypocritical and unkind behavior to people who needed only to learn.
I had not stopped to think about it, but you are right. And that subtlety was genius. The 'paragon' of the different shows was held up & examined from both points of view. There were no Saints anywhere. Except Edith. I still miss Edith Bunker like a real person. TgT
@@tomgcooktown5019 My Grammy was an Edith
Unfortunately, it seems like a lot of people missed the fact that the show was always hard on Archie Bunker and his views. We can't have nice things, can we?
@@ROLtheWolf
I wish that the political parties of today would take a page out of Norman Lear's book of politics.
I love your videos. I'm a straight, over 50 woman from very rural America. I was raised with every adult I knew being a bigot for the most part. Certain racial & sexual slurs were just everyday language where I live. I hate to say it's mostly still that way. I am an oddball because I never understood that behavior or thought it was OK. I always cringed inside when hearing adults say the comments that I knew could hurt people. The only reason my relatives have been able to be so insensitive, is that they didn't actually know a single gay person, or someone of another race. At least they didn't THINK they knew any gay folks. I remember certain boys from school who were kind of effeminate, & girls who were tomboys. It wasn't a good predictor of their sexuality at all, though some were bullied terribly. Some came out as gay after going away to college & getting out of this backward area. I've lived in bigger areas & have had several wonderful gay friends... still do. That's why I watch your videos. I want to have a truer understanding of things, so I can be then best friend that I can.
I truly wish more people were like you in this world. Thank you for being a kind human and just know that you are valued and sincerely appreciated. Sending love and hugs! ❤
I’m a gay dude part of generation Z so I have no idea what Maude, Frasier, Golden Girls, All In The Family or any of those shows are but this are but this is really interesting to me!
They were interesting times, my friend. And not always good. I was born in 68 and remember how gays/lesbians were at best simply the butt of jokes or mere comedy relief, just like Matt said. I'm glad I got to live to see the day when gay people could legally marry. But there's still a long way to go and the forces arrayed against the good people, both straight and gay, trying to hold the line are many and powerful. I hope that within a hundred years being a homosexual will barely register as something "abnormal" on people's radars. Maybe it will be sometime later, but no later than two hundred years from now. Sadly, a big part is simply going to be waiting for those who will never change their mind to die off. I still wish that people like that would change their mind. But, sometimes it's just so ingrained in them that even if they outwardly started treating gay people as, well, people inside they would likely still hate them. We'll see how things turn out! Well, maybe not really _see_ , but... You get the idea... ;)
Oh I'm a little envious! That means that you get to discover all of those great things for the first time, which is super fun. I've got videos about all of them, so that might be a good place to start! ua-cam.com/play/PLKw13hcK-XrVSdA4C8UceHyS3WNNOipMv.html
Matt and Ethan -- Ethan, you can find those old shows, maybe, on rerun channels that do old nostalgia TV. Those are all 70's and 80's shows, mostly sitcoms. -- Matt, you don't need to envy us having gone through that any more than you'd envy your younger self for whatever homophobia you went through. As you often point out, there was (often still is) this odd mix of more positive subtle stuff along with some very negative weird and occasionally loud and overt stuff. I lived through it, and I am not sure how others my age managed to be out. Although it's funny, there were plenty of rumors about a few guys and girls when I went to school, so in retrospect, I'm not sure how "in the closet" we really were -- except that I didn't know if any of those friends or classmates really were gay, or only rumored to be to make their lives rougher. That said, one boy was supposedly the only out gay boy when I went, and another, a friend, was the first male cheerleader, and possibly gay and still trying to come to terms with himself, like I was. Other friends got called gay for doing theater or dance class, or how they wore their shirt collar (in high school, very mature). So rumors were, ah, perhaps less than truthful in all cases. -- Yet it was serious enough that some kids did get bullied / beaten up, etc. The word homosexual or gay did not appear in the student handbook, and in at least two cases, teachers knew full well things were happening (bullying) and did nothing about it. -- A character like Kurt in Glee just would not have happened on TV, and would have had serious trouble in real life...but there were kids like Kurt in Glee when I grew up. -- In hindsight, well, I made it too, and I sometimes wonder what would've happened if I'd ever gotten so fed up that I could've said, yeah, I am, so what? and come out. But I was too scared of whether my parents would accept me. -- It is not so different these days, either, for many gay kids. Being gay, whether you're in the closet or out, is not easy, still. So I don't know if I'd be right to claim it's any easier or more accepted now. I think it depends: sometimes, some places, it is, and other, not much different. -- But I am glad if anyone can be out and proud. My life would've been very different, and possibly better, if I could've come out much sooner.
I’m gen x I saw all those except Maude
Im a millennial and I did not know Esther Williams, Joan Crawford, Judy Garland, Doris Day. As a gay and as you get older, you will learn and appreciate a lot of cultural and historic aspects from the past.
I just thought Barry got crossed because Maude was IMPLYING he is not boyfriend material for being less of a man.
I simply took it as meaning that although Barry could be a best friend to her as a straight woman, he couldn’t be a husband. Not less of a man, but “not her type.”
Wait, Mr. Ratburn from Arthur is gay and now married? Oh heck yeah, I knew it!
I am a 46 year old woman and love Arthur...I never associated any sexuality with Mr. Ratburn but I have to see that episode. It seems good
It was a tasteful episode for kids I enjoyed watching it.
It's crazy how Bea was old her entire life
You need to look at pictures of Bea when she started her career. It is always an eye opener to find a star on late night tv in a movie or obscure tv rerun.
Irene Ryan was in the Faye Ray version of King Kong and as you can imagine, back then she didn't look like an old lady....but few people saw Ms Ryan in her earliest roles.
I was just thinking the same thing 😂😂😂
She had a very masculine touch.
She was mostly a stage actress before "Maude."
Bea was very pretty in her youth, but it was a very statuesque beauty, which would have been considered "mannish" or "severe" back then. Not to mention even in the Fifties she still had a very deep voice for a woman. That's why most of her early work was either stage or the rare TV appearance where she portrayed someone's mother. She didn't really get big roles until Mame in the Sixties, by which she was in her 40s.
i love how you've done so much research: like sassy gay friend, and arthur
There was some solid research, but the glaringly missing information was "Who is Norman Lear?"
@@ROLtheWolf Wikipedia is agood start
@@charlesritt5088 That's right, Chuck! The guy above could have found out tons about Norman Lear on Wiki, and then he would have made a much more informative video, that understood how that wonderful, influential show runner created most of the best shows ever.
@@ROLtheWolf I think Matt did a very good job on this episode
My PBS station in Arkansas also refused to air that Arthur episode.
Maya S, Typical of the South.
And Alabama
Exactly, the South loved slavery and went to war over it, and when they lost that battle, they switched to hating gays! ( Some Southerners at least, not all! )
These little pop culture history vids are my FAVORITE thing.
Thank you so much.
I love it, too! :) I grew up during these times and remember some of the "controversial" episodes from certain shows. But my memory is getting more fuzzy as time goes on and it's nice to have a kind of refresher, as it were. :)
Aww thanks! Let me know if you have requests for future topics!
Matt Baume All in the Family did an early episode where a gay man and gay woman came to the door, asking for donations or maybe giving out pamphlets. They say they represent the Gay Liberators and the Daughters of Sappho. Edith thinks they are a lovely married couple, but Archie slams the door in their face and proceeds to try to explain to Edith, I remember something about someone’s daughter named Butchie who drove a cab. I haven’t seen it since I was a little gay kid but it stuck in my memory all that time because gays just weren’t on TV ever. It might have been in the episode where Archie thinks one of Mike’s quiet friends is ‘queer’ (an insult back then that would be like saying faggot today) but it turns out his is straight but one of Archie’s friends at the bar, a former football player, is gay. MASH also did an episode about an injured soldier (I think his own solders hurt him, but not sure) who was gay and comes out to Hawkeye. But maybe you’ve already done one or both of those episodes? The movie Making Love might also be worth a look. I was just in love with Michael Ontkean’s character.
@@MattBaume Please do an episode of Marcus Welby perhaps one of the most anti-gay show of it's time or discuss the very homophobic Eddie Murphey era of snl
Superb content.. as usual. Thank you Matt!
I think that the big laugh is indicating that Maude can't imagine Barry being respectible or on the same level as - literally - anyone else. That's pretty vicious.
Kudos to Maude being progressive and yet still a flawed person, capable of common hypocrisys
Its weird, I kind of see Bea as an honorary drag queen so when she called him Mary i screamed
I'd change my name to "Mary" if Bea Arthur came back to life and called me that lol
lmao anita bryant getting hit with a pie. makes me smile.
“WHAT ARE YOU DOING? WHAT? WHAT? WHAT ARE YOU DOING?” ❤️
Underused catchphrase TBQH
Twin Fantasy pfp
Seems she was laughing because Barry is gay and she found it ridiculous that she and he could have that kind of relationship. Barry found Maude to be a real friend and realized Maude didn't see him the same way.
I think the “third grade” joke is a reference to the setup earlier in the episode when Walter complains that Barry “gets some special pleasure reminding [him] that [he] didn’t graduate high school.” The “affectionate” implication is probably purely coincidental. Still, it is just mean.
So I moved to the US in 1985 , I was 15 , growing up in Pakistan every time I watched "western " shows it took me to a utopian world where everything was prefect , a world apart, a world where there were no struggles about sexuality til I watch these shows and realize there was struggle then and now .
I think the reason Barry got so angry at Maudes laughter was because his argument was that Maudes husband was threatened by their relationship because he fulfilled a role in her life that her husband couldn't, but her laughter proved that she didn't think of him as a threat because she didn't actually take their relationship seriously, and he truly was just an accessory to her.
Excellent episode of! Thanks for all that you do!
The thing about Barry being quick to cut a sucka off is real. A lot of people are just unable to take what they dish out and would just end a relationship like that.
I just found your channel! I’ve been binge watching for days now. My mindset has changed drastically over my 42 years of living. The more I learn about queer culture the more I’m surprised, sad, and amazed! So many faces I remember as a kid in the 80’s. Born 1980. I really enjoy your content. It has opened my eyes to so many things. Thank you for sharing all of this with us. I hope others can change and eliminate bigotry for good! Thank you again from an almost old lady in the south. You are a TREASURE!
I think this episode was Norman Lear taking the piss out of Gore Vidal.
You are smart.
Attacking the husband and then slightest bit of protest from the wifey.. claws out.
Seeing Anita get pied gives me life. Another amazing video!
I just can't get enough of it. She's such a clown.
@@MattBaume Kinda like Pennywise......
that scene came off to me as if he was offended because he thought that maude was making fun of him for his sexual orientation, as in "how could I end up with a freak?" due to the amount of negative feedback he was used to get, while I thought she implied that her husband being jealous of a gay man was silly.
That was great thank you so much.
I had never heard about that show.
I enjoyed this just as much as I enjoyed your previous ones. This was very interesting and I had no idea about this episode. Thanks for sharing your thoughts and keep the good stuff coming! Best, Marvin 😀
The Mary slip up made me snorty laugh.
(9:34) I think Maude is laughing simply because Barry is gay and, gee, how could she have a "real" relationship when that's the case. I mean, come on, right? Barry couldn't _possibly_ love Maude because _everyone_ knows it's impossible for a gay person and a straight person to have that deep of a relationship. (sarcasm) ;)
Matt, CybershamanX has the right idea. I was a sharp 13 year-old boy when this was made. What Maude's laugh implied was her (and much of American society at the time) belief that not only was it ridiculous for people to believe Barry as a credible to Walter for Maude's affections, the assumption was that, being gay, meant an unmasculine man, a man who was considered as feminine as a woman. Maude's laugh was revealing that myth that defined straight people's views on gays until this day.
@@caraqueno Now I feel so old! We're teaching the younger generations about all the screwed up things that happened in "our day". Wow. It's so weird. But...but...I still feel like a kid! heh, heh ;)
@@caraqueno And thank you for further clarifying that scene! :)
@@CybershamanX You're welcome! I still feel as if I'm 40 :-)! I don't want to be 20 again.. The crux of so much hostility towards male homosexuality and the struggle for GBT men to come out has always hinged upon the myth that homosexual men were, by nature, feminine and that femininity was unseemly, worthy of ridicule by mainstream society, and fear by GBT men that, when they come out, they would be treated contemptuously by mainstream society and regarded as pretend-women. In a society that equates strength, power, and the fulfillment of life goals as intrinsically masculine, which man wanted to be ridiculed, hated, and physically violated for behaving or perceived as less than that idea of American masculinity? This is why the expression "Man up!" was created and why American men, in particular (our emotionally rigid Puritan colonizers did us great harm in expressing emotions), find it still difficult to acknowledge beauty in men, acknowledge affection and love between men, and share feelings among men without the social stigma that they are perceived as gay, meaning they want to be feminine and should be treated as inferior beings for displaying tenderness, emotional vulnerability, and sensuality.
CybershamanX, it's been great to communicate with you. I hope our paths will cross again!
This is a very interesting take on the episode! It’s wondering as to how to figure out how we, as queer and trans and non-binary people, still have some harboring prejudices about other people. How should we deal with that, Matt?
That's a great question, and I think the answer (as it so often is, to so many questions) is listening. Listen to the words & actions that other people say are harmful; and listen to your own words to understand if you're accidentally harming someone without meaning to.
@@MattBaume Also in 1982 there was Victor/Victoria. Making love and personal best and then gay people in film almost disappeared for about 10 years. This was during the very homophobic Reagan era and the rise of Jerry Falwell,PAT Robertson etc. And Sunday mornings were just horrible as anti-gay TV evangelests were on about every other channel, I kept thinking why are all these local station allowing all this anti-gay bigotry on the air without any shows to counter this very harmful bullshit
In the 80s, which was a pretty open time in a lot of ways, gay men were associated with AIDS, which probably made movies and television downplay uncoded gay themes and characters.
"Once you get to know 'em, you'll love him."
"........Can't we just be friends?"
XD
you should do one of these for Buffy the Vampire Slayer! In addition to Willow and Tara there are also earlier examples like with Larry that you could really dive into. I love these videos!
Ooh, and dig into how Joss Whedon knew from the start that either Willow or Xander would eventually be gay, but he hadn't decided which, so he planted clues for both of them, the result of which is that they both read as bi.
Seconded!
It definitely feels like something got left out. Like Maude using a slur. Seems weird if that would be cut by a sensor but the later one wasn't, but I wouldn't be that surprised. It only proves the point of the episode. What I appreciate was that it wasn't left up to the gay character to educate anyone or to be more palatable. That's a huge difference from most shows. And I don't hate that a lot of shows have gay characters educate because it may have helped people ask less dumb questions in real life, but it's still something everyone who's different has to deal with, where people feel entitled to ask you personal questions and put all the work on you to educate them before they'll accept you.
Tracie Irene that happens a lot though. Some words get censored while others don’t. 🤷🏾♀️ It depended on how bad the writers thought certain language was.
That's a good point. I'm glad that it didn't turn into Barry being the "model homosexual" and having a big exhausting speech, like it's our job to constantly be the ambassadors for our people.
Matt Baume That word is shocking in the modern era, and most have still been a bit shocking back then, but my guess is that it wasn’t as bad back then because they were referring to a type of food rather than a person? The same way a rug can be referred to as Oriental but a person can not.
Hmmm.. a gay guy who ghosts somebody based on one comment, inference or implication.... NO, that NEVER happens in real life (unless you are on a dating app).
That's right, Barry invented relationship ghosting.
@Tavon Fenwick I know, I was being sarcastic.
Barry was a legend. 😎
OMG, I just laughed so hard!!!
After Barry described himself as an intellectual lover, Maude laughed.
A lover for Maude, a hetero woman, would necessarily be a man. Sure, 'intellectual' takes the sex out of it but Barry had just described himself as fulfilling Maude's need for an intellectual man.
Barry thought himself a man in Maude's life. And Maude laughed. A deep and long laugh.
Barry described himself as a man and Maude laughed at him.
Barry's reaction during her laughing was him realizing that he is not a man in Maude's eyes, he's only The Gay.
It wasn't the idea of being sexual lovers, it was the idea that Barry could possibly be a man that was ridiculous to Maude.
Sorry... I rambled there a little bit. This was just sorta off the top of my head and I have no idea if it makes any sense.
Great video, as usual. Keep up the great work!
And Mr. Lear's point may have been that being okay with the 'alternative lifestyle' is not enough. We must consider the whole person.
Matt, I love your channel and all your intelligent analysis! Thank you! As for Maude's laugh and the "missing joke": I don't think the joke is missing at all. Keep in mind, in the early 1970s, we still weren't really considered "real people." That no matter how fabulous we were, and how much we created, we were still "second-class citizens" compared to straights. I think THAT is what the writers were trying to convey with Maude's laughing at Walter being "jealous" of a gay man. I think the mindset was, yes, Barry had all that going on. But he is STILL gay, so why would you be jealous of HIM??? Now, I'm not defending the writing. That moment could have been stronger, clearer. But back then, even the most successful of us were still not quite "equal" to any straight person.
I grew up on all these old sit-coms. I love your take on them!
As a suggestion for future videos, I recently saw "A very natural thing" for the first time and really could need some background to fully understand the context of how and why this movie was made. Maybe I'm not the only one.
If I had to take a guess as to why Barry took issue with the joke, I'd say that he inferred that Maude was implying that straight men are obviously superior to gay men, given how ridiculous she considered considered the idea of her being with Barry. The fact that she then calls him Mary (as if he isn't a "real man") is kind of incriminating.
It seems harmless enough as a one off comment, but given which character it's coming from (the one asserting her moral high ground whenever someone makes a joke), he might have considered Maude a fake ally (hence, "liberal guilt") and decided to cut ties there.
You put it best when you said that lgbt folk constantly feel like "the world is out to get them", especially in this time period, so while Barry's reaction does seem irrational, it might make sense for his character to do something like this. Unfortunately, we don't know much about his backstory, so it's not immediately obvious why he'd act like this.
Also, her being a feminist, and calling him with a female name, as a mockery (even as a slip), like implying that femininity is somehow inferior to masculinity....
Happy pride y'all! And thank you, Matt your videos are always top notch
Fascinating. Great video!!
Your videos are so informative! Thank you!
Aw yay thanks for watching!
brilliantly done...thanks!
I wonder if Barry was bisexual. Just tossing that thought out there.
Entirely possible! I don't know when TV started properly depicting bisexuality (to be honest, it still doesn't do a great job) so I think there are a lot of occasions in the media when someone is called "homosexual" when that's not actually the case.
@@MattBaume Time to write to Norman Leer while he's still alive.
@@MattBaume Also try to include the short lived but influential My So Called Life
Thank you so much for featuring this show. Maude was so ahead of it's time yet often forgotten.
Maude is on weekdays on antenna tv which is an over the air channel
@@charlesritt5088 I know I got an antenna like 9 years ago when I first moved out. People really are missing out on how much they can actually watch and save with an antenna.
I'm a few days late, but my theory: The idea of taking Barry seriously as an intellectual equal or "lover" is hilarious to Maude, because she still doesn't see him as a fully fleshed person. Like John Dalton also says in the comments, "laughing at the notion that Barry could be somehow equal or superior to Walter." The the "I wish I was dead" comment, is such a weird jump. Maybe she didn't even realize she had this way of viewing Barry until that moment.
Love this series. Keep it up, Matt.
Happy Pride, everyone!
I freaking love maude....and all norman lear shows....I still watch his shows on youtube and reruns. I appreciate the smart commentary on this episode. Cool channel man
How about an episode about gay celebrities on game shows of the 70s, like Paul Lynde and Charles Nelson Reilly? (Especially Charles Nelson Reilly, he's so underrated. )
Matt, thank you, both for the review of an episode I was too young to remember, and for the time to give a personal response of your own experience. -- I was little when Maude was on TV, so I lived through the 70's and 80's. (The 80's were high school and my first go-round with college. If I could have accepted myself and come out and gotten support, I likely would have done fine in college, instead of how it turned out.) -- I don't know what my life would've been like if I had come out then, but I think it would've been better. -- It is hard to describe just how isolated and conflicted things could be back then for a boy growing up, discovering he's gay, and not knowing anyone or anywhere to turn for support, someone to talk to, or, er, to test things out with, to have a boyfriend and be a boyfriend. -- This also means folks in my generation were becoming young adults right when HIV/AIDS was first finally making headlines in the USA, and our college professors didn't know yet what to tell us about it, because they were still trying to figure out what made it so different than other viruses. -- I grew up with bullying. But I don't think I'm unusual at all for my generation. I also wonder how many of my friends and classmates from school were gay, and I never knew for sure. We may have missed out on a lot of possibilities because we were so busy not telling anyone. (Or, er, maybe that was just me.) -- The neighbor in that episode looks like the man who played Mr. Drummond on the later show with Gary Coleman. -- I am amazed that the episode got made and got aired at all, back then.
Matt I love ur channel just want to tell u u bring back awesome memories
Matt, thank you for doing these deep dives. I grew up in 70s (I was born in 68 :P ) and I remember seeing scenes where gay people were involved. Strangely enough, my Christian Fundamentalist parents HATED gay people, yet I learned, in some cases through shows with episodes like this, to like gay people and treat them just like so-called "normal" people. I also read a lot of science fiction (my parents were totally clueless about sci-fi and probably just thought I was reading stuff about ray guns and rocket ships ;) ) and credit that, too, with helping to shape me into the person I am today. Thanks again! You do good work! :)
I'm a couple of years older. I also loved sci-fi and still do. My parents weren't fundamentalist./ evangelical, but were very religious Christians, and I grew up with that. (I also grew up feeling I could never talk to them about being gay.) One of my best friends was from a far more fundamentalist family. -- I think if my parents ever knew I was gay, they never wanted to see it, so they chose not to. -- So yes, absolutely, being gay or gay-friendly / accepting wasn't easy back then, and was very conflicting for those of us who grew up with family backgrounds like that.
@@benw9949 Wow. Thanks for sharing. :)
CybershamX: I was also a kid in the 70s, grew up to like sci-fi (from the original Star Trek in reruns.). I eventually figured out I liked Fantasy better, but read this series called Darkover by Marion Zimmer Bradly that I ended up loving, which is sort of a cross of fantasy and sci-fi (like The Chronicles of Amber is). The first two books I read in the Darkover series (they take place over many eras in the life of the Darkover planet and can thus be read in any order) both had gay content. The World Wreckers I read first, but she wrote that in the 60s when she was slightly less accomplished as an author, but I found out later it broke some ground in science fiction with a gay character. But by far I HIGHLY recommend The Heritage of Hasture first. I was just in love with Regis Hasture as a gay kid, as he was also coming to grips with certain things about himself. Another sci-fi series I love is John Varley’s books Titan, Wizard and Demon. It’s hard sci-fi but leveled with mythology, pop culture and amazing writing. What are some series you like?
RLucas3000 As a straight young man growing up I read several books that had gay characters or situations. Again, it was the only way I learned how really "normal" homosexuality was and how just because you loved someone of the same sex it didn't mean that somehow your love was lessened.
Your words reminded me of a two books (there might have been more). I _think_ it was called "Gaea". (I _just_ looked it up! It was the Gaea Trilogy and I read the first two, Titan and Wizard. Looks like I have one more book to check out!) It was about a giant living organism that basically was a world on the inside. (It spun for gravity. It was kind of like a smaller, fleshy ringworld. :P ) I really liked those books. But, yes, they had quite a bit of gay content and the author didn't shy away from it. You know, come to think of it, I think he was gay, too!
Other than that, I read all sorts of things, like Dune (until Frank Herbert died :( I read his son's books continuing the franchise, but, while I somewhat enjoyed them, they definitely were _not_ Frank Herbert level of quality. :( ), everything I could get my hands on by Larry Niven, Jerry Pournelle, Greg Bear. Isaac Asimov was still writing robot stories (and seemingly putting more sex into his work as time, and social norms, progressed). Arthur C. Clarke. William Gibson. I'm sure there were more. Like, I avidly read all of the Robotech paperbacks. Lately I dove back into Asimov and read every single book in his Empire/Foundation/Robot series. I just finished the entire 10 book Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever by Stephen R. Donaldson. Now, THAT was a slog! tiny tiny print and pretty long. In fact, when I next went to read the latest The Expanse book, I was shocked by the large font size and easy to read text (Donaldson sure does love his esoteric nomenclature! :P ) Oh, and I have The Hobbit and a cute little hardback 7 volume edition of Lord of the Rings by my bed. I would just read a little before falling asleep each night. I think in the last decade I've read them both at least 3 times. Oh, and of course I read a lot of Stephen King and I even have a fondness for Dean Koontz! :)
Anyway, it looks like I've got to find the third book in the Gaea series! Going to have to reread the first two, as well! ;)
The Star Trek Next Generation series had an episode in which the crew of the Enterprise were tasked with providing technical assistance (to avert an environmental crisis) to a humanoid race whose ancestors had modified their genome to make them a single gender. Reproduction was done via in vitro medical techniques, and sex for companionship was non-exclusive, at least in their legal theory. The occasional person who somehow showed a gender identity was treated as having a mental illness and forced into “therapy,” just as gay people in some churches are being forced into therapy to “pray the gay away.”
Well, as you might expect, the he-mannest man on the ship, Cmdr. Riker, was assigned to work closely with a local scientist who happened to be a “mutant” with strong female gender identity, and the Prime Directive got stretched too far, and “she” was caught.
I could see that it was a veiled way of standing up for gay and trans people, a couple of decades before it became publicly acceptable to do so, just as white vs black prejudice was tackled in the Original Series episode “Let That Be Your Last Battlefield” (in which a white-and-black hateful cop is chasing a black-and-white fugitive “criminal” around the Galaxy).
I love these longer form videos Matt. Keep up the great work. You're my gay hero!
Yeahhh!!!! I'm glad the culture cruise has returned.
Thanks for the knowledge and context. Well done video.
I particularly enjoy this culture cruise
As always, Matt Baume, you are an EXTRAORDINARY CULTURAL HISTORIAN!!! THANK-YOU!!!
I'm hooked on your videos now. You are such a great presenter and writer.
The 70's really did have some incredible television. This episode reminds me of "Everyones a little bit racist" from Avenue Q.
Really like culture cruse. Please keep it up.
Excellent breakdown. Thank you!
Your channel is why UA-cam was made. Keep it up!
Great video!!
Cannot fully express how happy I am to have stumbled upon this channel recently. Growing up gay in 1990s Mississippi, sitcoms were definitely the support which reminded me there are decent people out there somewhere.
I think the reason Barry reacts so harshly is that Maude’s laugh is supposed to confirm Walter’s accusation: Maude was only friends with Barry because she felt good hanging out with a gay guy and looking down on the less cultured people around her. When she laughed at Barry, he interpreted it as an insult toward his sexuality, and concludes that their whole friendship was a fraud, Maude wasn’t really the friend he thought he knew, and her acceptance was only skin deep. Although if that is the case, the “You’re a liberal who can’t laugh at your own prejudices” line is weird, ‘cause he seemed real offended at Maude’s laugh.
I'm prejudiced towards mean spirited jerks gay or straight
@14.30 kinda trippy seeing Blanche and Dorothy chillin wit Mister Drummond 🤣🤣🤣
There is no happier start to a day than Matt Baume and Bea Arthur in the first sIot of my youtube page ;)
Yes! More videos like these.
You got it! I've got a whole playlist full of them: ua-cam.com/play/PLKw13hcK-XrVSdA4C8UceHyS3WNNOipMv.html
"There's no such thing as gay dwarves."
"Come on Arthur you've read Snow White."
Your analysis was very insightful.
Great commentary!
YT recommended this video to me and I really enjoyed your analysis. You have a new subscriber!
Aww thanks! Welcome. :D
And let me know if there are topics you want to see me cover!
LOVE the culture cruise!
Not that it has anything to do with the discussion, Matt, but Bill Macy was in Oh! Calcutta! from 1969-71, before Maude. Norman Lear brought him to Hollywood after seeing him in the play and cast him in a small role in an episode of All in the Family before casting him in the role of Walter Findlay in 1972.
You sort of hit on the right answer. The reason they fight and end the friendship is ... this is a single-episode "best friend." They have set-up a situation whereby Maude and Barry are dear friends with some history together. But, he's never coming back. It was controversial enough that they talked about these issues in one episode. There was no way that Barry could become a recurring character. Norman Lear shows were often about some current social issue. Maude very definitely pushes a "Liberal" point of view (as a sort of counterpoint to Archie Bunker's "Conservative" point of view). Like Archie Bunker, Maude is very loud and bombastic in voicing her opinions. But also, like Archie Bunker, they wanted to show her as a "flawed" complex ... even vulnerable ... human being who has her own faults and biases. They set-up this situation whereby Barry and Maude already had a complex, nuanced relationship ... but, Barry is only gonna be on this one episode. Next week, Maude and Arthur will be "movin' on up" to a new topic. So ... Maude's biases and vulnerability get exposed ... and Barry makes a clean break of the relationship ... and off he goes to star in "Soap." (Bye-bye Barry.) Having Barry be kind of a jerk ... and Maude using a racial slur at the end ... these are details that show how good Norman Lear was at making characters who were able to advocate for a particular social/political position ... or, be part of a discussion about some controversial subject ... but, they were complex and flawed. They were not "cartoon cut-outs." That's what made them seem so real. One of my all-time favorite episodes of "All In The Family" (an absolute classic of a series BTW) was the one where they first introduce the character of Maude. She was supposed to be Edith's cousin. I loved "All In The Family." It was a much better show than any of its "spin-offs." Archie had a single-episode gay friend, too. These shows were "testing the waters." Interestingly, it was "Soap" (with this same actor who played Barry) that really "broke the ice" and had the first recurring character who was gay (played by Billy Crystal).
Tons of smart, insightful points made in this episode. Also, it kind of really makes me want to start watching Maude.
Another great video. I remember watching this episode about a year ago on TV re-runs. My first thought was, as you pointed out, that Barry was not a nice person. I saw him as a pompous arrogant character. I have met many men like him in the past. Those who feel, are better than everyone. So, when I first saw this episode, It never dawned on me that it might have been a defense mechanism of his because of the times. His reaction to Maude's laughter was a typical reaction of someone whose ego was to grand for their own good, as I had experienced with others like him myself. It was the "normal" reaction I recognized of ending a friendship just because someone laughed at them. But, adding the other factors which you mentioned...I just don't know.
Great video!! 😊👍
Thank you for keeping gay history alive. I gotta say the "Mary" line me made laugh , largely because of Bea's delivery. Aside from the akward scene you highlight, this is such a well-written episode. And Mrs. Naugatuck💜
She's such a strange character! I don't know what it was about that time that it was just NORMAL for middle-class families to have a live-in housekeeper.
That's is very strange. My memory is fuzzy on this but I think there were extenuating circumstances that led to the Finnleys taking Mrs Naugatuck into their home.
@@MattBaume Why did Maude always have the need to have a maid? Did she not know how to clean up after herself?
Excellent analysis! I grew up watching MAUDE (among many other shows) and I remember both episodes very well. On a personal note - one difference between the episodes for me was that between their original airings I became aware of my own same sex attractions!
Loool, throughout the whole video I kept thinking of Bea in the Star Wars cantina singing 😂
My take on that situation is that the writers needed to find a catalyst for him to storm out but wanted to protect Maude‘s reputation. So they went for a throwaway line that wasn’t offensive and didn’t betray her character, but could be overreacted to in a way that wasn’t completely implausible. They probably threw around 1000 lines to have the same outcome but anything more offensive would’ve made Morton look bad. This line didn’t make her look bad but could be twisted by him to be offensive. If that makes sense.
Oh! Bea Arthur singing at the end! I drove cross country with some friends & we had her broadway album on a loop.
Very interesting as usual. Matt you should definitely check out Season 1 Episode 2 of the 70's sit com "Alice", starring Linda Lavin, in which the protagonist becomes real close to a football player who turns out to be gay (despite nobody seems to believe a football could also be a gay man) and then has to face her own omophobia when the guy takes her son out on a fishing trip. Definitely a must see for your culture cruise
Perfection as always
Matt Baume, you are a national treasure!
Carol Burnett did an excellent parody of Maude. You can see that the sketch points up some of what we're discussing below; Maude's knee-jerk liberalism, and her refusal to sometimes confront her own prejudices. It's funny as hell, and fun in the fact that Isabel "Louise Jefferson" Sanford plays her maid "New Jersey" ua-cam.com/video/FDG1OBh7C1g/v-deo.html
That was Esther Rolle of good times
The Star Wars Christmas Special because of course. ❤️
One of Bea's finest roles.
Been watching Maude reruns and this episode was just on.
This is going to be a fine Video😌