Round Table Talk: Elmer Keith's No. 5 Colt SAA Revolver
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- Опубліковано 6 вер 2024
- We have a special treat for you! After our earlier From the Vault episode about legendary gunwriter Elmer Keith's "No. 5" Colt Single Action Army revolver, recently auctioned by Rock Island Auction Co., Brownells Gun Tech™ Steve Ostrem convened a panel of wheelgun experts consisting of gunwriter Tank Hoover, master custom gunsmith Bobby Tyler of Tyler Gun Works, and holster maker extraordinaire Mike "Doc" Barranti of Barranti Leather Co. to share their thoughts on how Keith influenced revolver development in the last 100 years. Our "special guest" is that No. 5 Colt built for Keith by Pennsylvania gunsmith Harold Croft in 1929 - sometimes called the Last Word in single action revolver design.
Thinking it could be a major game-changer in the handgun world, Keith wanted to send this gun to Colt for them to copy. Colt.... ignored him. Many years later, they came out with the New Frontier, which did have some of No. 5's features, but by then Ruger was challenging them with the Blackhawk. No. 5 really shows how far a gun can be refined by customizing, a tradition now maintained by folks like Bobby Tyler and his crew. A custom gun isn't just about ergonomics - No. 5 is easily a 100-yard handgun. Keith was not a handgun hunter per se; if he saw dinner on the hoof while he was out on the ranch, the revolver on his hip was the quickest means to bagging it for the pot.
What about Keith's famous 600-yard shots with revolvers, including one with a slip gun? (And what's a "slip gun"?) What were the technical limitations on custom gunsmithing nearly 100 years ago? What constitutes a "beautiful" gun? How was No. 5 reblued several times without damaging the engraving? Find out what The Panel has to say in this wide-ranging discussion. ENJOY!
I have one gun that will never leave my collection. And if I didn’t want to make sure it gets passed down to future generations, I’d have it buried with me. It’s my Model 29-2, named “Elmer” of course!
"Elmer"!... That is EXCELLENT!... I have a couple 29's... I hope they stay in the family a very long time, but who knows with this young generation......
Just four gun savvy dudes talking amongst themselves about an interesting topic and we are fortunate enough to listen in. Greatly enjoyed this unique episode. Please do this again.
Notice my avatar. I became fascinated by Elmer Keith's writing from reading Guns and Ammo subscribed to my high school library in the middle sixties. I didn't grow up with guns and our family farm had none. Elmer's writing lead me to a lifelong interest to first, whatever I could find to borrow and shoot, to now having talked to, traded with, and visited many fine gunsmiths and owning a number of custom revolvers. Disappointingly omitted from this video was any mention of the engraver of Elmer Keith's #5. Dan Love is still alive and living quietly in Iowa. I visit him several times a year and hope to someday talk to Brownell's about having some sort of exhibit of Dan's work displayed at the Grinell location. I found one of Dan's project revolvers on line and had Bobby Tyler finish it out with some sight work and re cylindering it to tighter .45 Colt dimensions. The case colouring and over all cosmetic effect are quite striking. The frame is a prototype from the USFA factory, and the barrel and sights are New Frontier. The new re chambered cylinder was from left over parts at USFA. Dan had fabricated a new base pin and a Sedgley base pin latch. When I saw it for sale at First Stop Guns in Rapid City, I knew who had owned the revolver before me. It would make a great show piece at Brownell's to display both Dan's work and Bobby Tylers. The piece is not a #5. Mr. Love, the engraver is a great fellow, and I hope to get Brownells to visit him for an interview and hear some of the great Elmer Keith stories too. I live only a few hours from Brownells, so will try to get down there and talk to them about Dan and his contribution to the #5. I have a personal letter from Elmer to contribute and all of his books with his autograph. Your video is a great tribute to this fabulous revolver and the man himself.....
This has to be one of my favorite episodes! Full of knowledge and get information. Please do more of this type of forum videos. From a loyal customer and subscriber. Thank you for sharing!
Certainly one of the most - and very few - absolutely excellent, informative and interesting videos I have ever been fortunate to see. Thank you gentlemen, VERY much.
Elmer Keith was a working man, used tools for his many trades (Guide, Hunter, Rancher, Cowboy, Gunsmith, Writer) and became a Master at his crafts despite the trials and tribulations life threw at him... living through the horrible fire in his childhood, losing his daughter Druzilla and being so sick himself, unable to attend her funeral, some of the stories he touched on during hunting trips such as the death of a hunter who was 'accidently' shot, guiding with busted ribs, his adventures on the river with Cap, and on and on. AN AMAZING MAN! May he Rest In Peace.
I really appreciate these videos. It not often you get to hear guys like this sit around and talk. My dad introduced me to Elmer and I’ve been intrigued ever since.
The day you take your last breath is when you become a master. What a true statement!!!! As long as you are alive if you're not learning then arrogance has tied your hands. Top marks guys I'm truly impressed. Brownells customer for life!!!
The single action is still an excellent design for use in extreme conditions. They are the only design that I can operate with or without my work gloves. They still run when they are covered in dirt. The internals don't get dirty from gas. They always run whatever weight of bullets or shotshell. And they are comfortable to carry and hang nicely when shooting.
The history of firearms is what got me intreated in guns in the first place, started collecting at the age of 14. Revolvers are my favorite and single action my choice to carry daily. I carry a Ruger New Vaquero in a 5.5" .45C in a high ridding pancake type open top holster very concealable and comfortable, my friends can't believe I carry a hog leg..haha
Even if it prints, it’s so huge it doesn’t look like a gun, but more of a money belt or weird wrinkles under your shirt or coat.
Hell I Was There, is what you build your foundation on, in the world of guns.
Gun trends come and go, but the Single Action is timeless, and is always there somewhere in the background, a solid foundation in the firearms world. One day, projectile launching firearms will be obsolete, superseded by laser and energy beam / packet weapons. But the Single Action will still be there. We still have almost exact replicas (Uberti) of 1851 Colt Navy revolvers to fire, probably even more popular than ever, even though metallic cartridges have long ago superseded percussion technology. It will be the same in the energy beam / packet era. Single Actions, both percussion and metallic cartridge, will still be there.
I've got a Model 29, Elmer Keith Commemorative. It's fun to shoot with .44 Specials. Don't shoot it much. It was like new, in the box when I got it. Somebody's safe queen. Probably upset a lot of collectors that I shoot it at all. Elmer would be upset if I didn't shoot it. That's what they're for. Wouldn't own a gun I can't shoot. Except for a few family heirlooms that aren't any longer safe to shoot.
This gun is smooth as glass with a great trigger. Haven't ran any magnums in it yet, and I won't with these classic panel grips.
To the man that made this video. If you'll put your support hand thumb over the top, Weaver style, with a death grip, the muzzle flip won't be as bad. Put your trigger finger knuckle on the trigger and shoot it double action. It's awesome.
Excellent session, guys! Elmer certainly was the Godfather of so much that the firearms and ammunition industries and the world of shooters and firearms enthusiasts embrace and rely on and hold dear today!
Thanks fellas, I personally love single action revolvers and those are some real beauties. They are such fun to shoot. 👍👍
When I was a young man I was blessed with great eye sight was able to shoot a rim of a beer bottle at70 yds kill running rabbits with my 357mag but distance is a bit harder now 40 yrs later
Probably the first book ever written about sport sixguns and pistols in general was "Modern American Pistols and Revolvers" by A.C. Gould, first published in 1888. In it was the first mention of the Revolver as being a serious instrument for accurate shooting. There's a chapter in the 222 page book on long range pistol shooting that mentioned shooting at up to 400 yds. and that it can be successful. The concept of long range pistol shooting was not new in Keith's time and even practiced for many years by some shooters. Sometimes all you have is a pistol and that just has to suffice.
Great Round Table Talk an some awesome revolvers to.Thanks for the video.
Just plain awesome. Thanks, Steve!!!
Nice! Great discussion! Thanks!
This is a fantastically wonderful video about a legend in the gun world…a BIG THANK YOU to Brownell’s making it available and sharing with us and also for the knowledge and insight from the panel 👍👍👍🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Amazing chat!
Great video keep up the info. We have to keep this history alive it is so worth it
Good stuff! Steve hosting and 3 guys that are keeping big bore single action revolvers alive and innovative today. Good stuff!
Very Nice Job Guys 🙂☕👍
Said it before, will say it again. Keith's #5 needs an Italian replica today.
That is an excellent suggestion. Though the Sedgley base pin retainer would be cost prohibitive. The grip frame is available from custom shops RW frames and Ron Power. Fermin Gsrza does front sights. Bowen has rough country rear sights.
as a young teen i started reading everything i could get my hands on that Elmer Keith wrote because of his writings the first centerfire handgun i bought was a super black hawk in 44 mag that was back in 1973 and still own
What I would not give for a Ruger flattop Bisley with a forged frame and adjustable sights patterned on the Number 5! Maybe in Heaven they make such a gun....
I have a G Lawrence holster from the 1920s for a Model 1899 4th Change Model, it is still functional. The only defect of the Number 5 is he did not have it built on a Smith and Wesson "N" Frame.
Great one! Thank you, gentlemen.
I love the look of that revolver that Bobby had!
Elmer Keith is not as well known as John Moses Browning but both were giants in American firearm development.
Beautiful gun obviously made by an excellent gun builder. I believe this gun is the inspiration for a gun the video game
Destiny called The Last Word.
I ordered 2 lined holsters from Barranti Leather, they sent me an email that said they "forgot" to line the holsters; so they would credit the price. I asked for my money back & received a check within a week. If you want to place an order, wait for a year and a half, then receive a full refund, Barranti Leather is your ticket!
I remember Gun Jesus doing an episode on the number 5. Incidentally, I have some Brownells screwdriver bits sitting in my gun toolbox, and a fresh holster from Mike Barranti (that took ages to get here, courtesy of the Polish Postal Service being super bad at their job).
It's funny how this just showed up right after Ian Mccollum's review of this exact gun...
What always gets me about Keith is when all of this happened with revolver no 5 and Krofts visit to Oregon, he was in his late 20’s……….. let that sink in.
Great video!!
Man, UA-cam gun channels have been pretty quiet today. Makes for a quite sad Wednesday 😥
From Pennsylvania huh... Cool
I'm a big fan of the "Bisley Style" Lowered Hammer... In my opinion, the Traditional Colt SAA Style Hammers are way too high for my taste... I'm no small guy, I stand almost 6' 2" and I have fairly good sized hands, but I find it difficult to get a thumb up on those hammers when I shoot single handed, or sometimes even double handed... I have a New Vaquero Stainless .357 now that I'm getting ready have the hammer replaced for that reason... I have a New Model 44 Special Blackhawk and an Old Model Blackhawk in .357 that have been done... To me it makes all the difference in the world... My "Cowboy" Buddies always give me Hell about it... I usually tell them "I'm not planning to become a Wild West Gunfighter anytime soon, so I most likely won't be needing to "Fan" the darn thing!... Haha!... Great Video Guys!... Mr. Keith was an absolute Legend!....
Half hour about this gun being such an upgraded holy grail, you mentioned many different craftsman across the country shipping it back and forth, even Colt should have made it like this…but besides the adjustable sights and engraving, what’s the big modifications compared to the standard colt SA? You guys really didn’t say, thanks.
That's covered in the earlier FTV video, posted on Sept. 3. UA-cam may or may not allow the link I'm about to paste in here: ua-cam.com/video/I2cUB6jtetc/v-deo.html
It’s not just sights and engraving. The grip frame has been modified as well. Freedom arms uses the same basic style on their models to this day. The base pin was also modified to hold the cylinder under heavy recoil. But besides that, this was the gun Mr. Keith used to develop and perfect the heavy 44 Special load. And that eventually led to the 44 Magnum. If you get a chance, read ‘Sixguns by Keith’. This will explain how the heavy sixgun was developed. Prior to Mr Keith, this revolver and the heavy 44 Special, the most powerful gun in the world was the old 45 Colt. And in 1929, the Super 38 was the reigning king of velocity and muzzle energy. This gun really embodies the change in direction handgun cartridges took.
Typically not a fan of hagriogrophy, but this was an amazing forum. Thanks gentlemen.
I would like to know or see how Elmer Keith used his three-gold bar front sight for distance shooting.
Heads up fellow shooters. If you purchase any Brownells products on Optics Planet you have no warranty. I notified both that I would warn you. Joe Harris
👍 I look at my super Blackhawk there’s some Elmer in what I have done to it.
Who did the grips on the Tyler gun???😍
Layne Simpson took the baton!
I do agree the craftsmanship is lacking in today’s’hip’ scene…modern production is cool but there are damn few craftsmanship builders, a total lack of soul, we are plagued by full on consumerism…
How long of time, from first obtaining of this #5, until final engraving of it?
This current fascination with auto pistols ,I have to believe, Elmer would not much approve of. Keith did observe that the revolver is likely a much more viable handgun for the civilian than the auto. Also he would probably feel the high capacity/small caliber magazines would encourage poor marksmanship and the carrying of insufficient calibers.
During Elmer's later years, did he never suffer from cataracts? Arthritis?
I know where No. 1 is.
Telegraph!
Poached the Idaho state record elk…I ain’t too impressed with ol man Keith!