Game of Thrones/ASOIAF Theories | AGOT Daenerys I | Breakdown & Analysis
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Breakdown and Analysis of chapter three in book 1 of the A Song of Ice and Fire Series, A Game of Thrones: AGOT Daenerys I.
Theories and analysis of A Song of Ice and Fire using text evidence and quotes from George RR Martin.
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Of course Ilyrio has contempt for Viserys, Viserys is not part of Ilyrio's plan. We don't know it yet, but Ilyrio is plotting to put Aegon on the throne. He needs Dany to get Drogo and his warriors. But he has no use for Viserys. Sooner or later Ilyrio and Varys would probably have eliminated Viserys.
So five books before George tells us what Ilyrio is up to, Dany realizes that Ilyrio is up to something.
I would put forward that Viserys wasn't completely immaterial to Illyrio's plan; if anything Dany was expendable once she played her part. Illyrio needed Viserys to invade Westeros with his foreign army so that fAegon (or Aegon, if it please you) could come to the rescue. Viserys would, as Dany said of the cloth dragon, "give the hero someone to fight".
I love this series so much. There is so much in these books, George has written layer up layer of storytelling. Even with all I have caught in the stories, you still find something I missed. Love going into the details like this.
I want to see a slap fight between Viserys and Joffrey. I am depressed that the show did not give me this.
Ohmigod...wheezing🤣🤣🤣. You win the comment section, sir!
@@ashleyofnaath I have my moments 😉
ha ha ha epic one, it be like Rachel fighting her sister in friends.
Eh, Visaerys would win. He's not smart, but he's probably just slightly smarter than Joffrey. But Rickon Stark (circa. AGoT) is smater than Visaerys.
Viserys was a monster , daenerys his younger sister and only relative alive , he's should've have protected her.
Agreed. It is the duty of a brother to protect his sister, even if she doesn't need it (as is the case with my black belt wearing older sister, yet I still uppercutted one of her boyfriends when he didn't speak to her respectfully).
I love Dany so so much! My Queen ALWAYS 💗🧡
"I wanted to plant trees and watch them grow" oh my gods this makes it somehow more sad? She literally wants roots
That is Dany's tragedy. She made herself into a Queen but she still doesn't have a home.
@@AMAubert Nah she's a mother first. A mother sacrificing everything for her children. I'm strnogly hoping we get to see her feel safe , feel at home, at some point in the future story. If even at least for a little bit.
You two are a joy to listen to together.
I think you're right that Drogo is a unique khal and that there's probably more going on with his motivations than we know yet.
I was pleasantly surprised to hear you distinguish between slavery and servanthood. It's refreshing because an increasing amount of the fans seem all too happy to abstract the word "slave" to include any and every situation south of filthy rich and ultra powerful. There is a world of difference between being free to leave versus not free to leave, between being compensated for your work versus being kept alive, between living in a mansion and imprisoned in a barracks.
Why is it that none of the Storm Lords, not Stannis or Robert Baratheon, or any of the people in the area or any of the history that were aware of, not any of it ever makes any mention of this great and mighty, unbelievably powerful storm at and around Dragonstone that Dany got the name Stormborn because of? Stannis, at this time, was sailing there and this has been talked about a lot and Stannis thought about it a lot but never has he thought about any storm going on there. And such a storm, one powerful enough to do real damage to the construction on Dragonstone would have to have been A VERY famous and well known storm. Nor does anyone on Dragonstone ever make any mention of any damage to be seen there, and it's not like anyone could have just repaired it.
I also fully believe that there's more to the lemon tree thing than you guys believe as well. Especially since GRRM keeps drawing attention to it, as recently as the Mercy chapter in fact.
Preston has been asking and pointing this out for years, unfortunately very few in the fandom pay attention to this detail for whatever reason despite the fact GRRM still hints that lemon trees grow in southern regions and has been on record stating the lemon tree will play a part later.
Theres a lot of weird inconsistencies in danys recollection that people ignore. If cat is an unreliable narrator dany is by far. Which is why its also not a valid idea to act like her birthday must be one year no matter how many times she did the math either. Her only source for this narrative is viserys who is full of shit.
If the lemon tree was an oversight from an earlier draft, why would he bring attention back to it in the Mercy chapter?
Yes, we're finally given confirmation of his intent
Nice, I forgot about that. I’m undecided on the whole thing, but I do like the idea of it indicating some kind of secret.
@@AwakeAtTheWheel
Yeah, me too. And I was leaning towards it being nothing, but the Mercy chapter makes me wonder
And so many other times throughout the books
George once did an interview where the Lemon Tree is brought up, and he stated the discrepancy was important and that the person asking the question was perceptive, so it's almost certainly not an error.
He's corrected errors in the past, like Jeyne Poole's hips and Bran's horse's gender.
Forgot where but I was looking at other comment sections and many keep saying Dany was crazy or gonna go the same way as the show and it's quite hilarious considering it sounds like show only fans trying to read the books and already having a pre made idea and looking for things to prove thier point already made. It's easy to see this happening in many communities I'm in.
Dany is in a place where people have as many politics playing as possible like kings landing but the Difference is we don't know as much in her location because we have limited pov from other places.
Kinda like people who think revenge and getting justice is the same thing for a bad situation happening.
Right
George is quite clearly and explicitly telling us that Cersei is a nut case. He has not shown a single moment of madness in Dany. I've only read the books, so I don't know what dumb and dumber did to her in the show. But in the books there is no sign of Dany being crazy.
@@AMAubert I see it like this:
"Oh since the show made it clear Dany is crazy by me pointing it out I'll be a genius"
It's basically egotistical people looking for praise on someone else's ideas or a friend telling you about a show and spoils the secret bad guy so now you can't see the show the same way. Just pre Fed ideas and you look for things that suit the narrative.
Basically same with cat. She says she is smart but Tyrion and black fish call her a fool but because we are never in black fish's head we don't hear it from him while Tyrion made it clear her actions same with lysa are crazy.
Book Dany maybe childish, petty and slightly naive not so different from Sansa (considering they're both 13 years old), but she's not crazy nor stupid, as she was shown to be fairly perceptive in her own way!!!!
@@anaemiliaalmeida7238 childish sure with her little fantasies about dressing up but she is a lot more mature than she seems even ealry on with how she can read people.
Dany and Sansa switching places would have made things better. Sansa would be fine with viserys dying while Dany would be loyal to her stark family and listen as trying to save her brother many times from his foolishness shows how forgiving she is. I still say jorah and illirio made sure viserys was able to get himself killed by not stopping him.
Re: palanquin*
Google's pronunciation guide indicates that m'lady is correct. Sorry, m'lord.
I do believe he's correct in that Roy Dotrice mispronounced it at least sometimes.
Nobody ever mentions this epic storm, or any damage to Dragonstone.
I think it’s the truth , cape wrath is close , it’s a bay there can be a storm. You can’t damage Dragonstone it’s ancient Valyrian stronghold, it’s super duper strong!
Yes man, Preston Jacobs laid it out very clearly in a video.
@@marcusanark2541 Preston and TOOTGH are the only two theory channels.
@@PhilHibbs I would only add Quinn's in the list, he also digs deeper into the themes and lore.
Favorite character
This was a great episode. While you were detailing the gathering at Drogo's manse and how it was actually a political meeting; that introducing Dany was just a drop in the bucket, I was getting loose echoes of Tourney at Harrenhal. That's pretty cool. Also, at times I like Illyrio for the perfumed seneschal but this chapter disabuses me of the idea because as we see, Dany is already leery of him. Warning her against someone she's always been suspicious of doesn't make sense.
Admittedly, Dany isn't one of my favorite characters and I like her a little better after listening to your analysis. Nice job💚✋.
Dany's chapters are always my favorites too. Hers and Jaime's. First female character I've been able to relate to and understand as a man, really.
Thank you I'm going to start listening to the book's on Audible so I'll be looking forward to hearing Danny's chapters
They are my favorites characters plus Tyrion.
@@thetalesofelbek7042
I have both physically read and listened to Roy Dotrice multiple times. Tyrion chapters were always another pleasant chapter heading to hear. It was the Catelyn and Sansa chapters that made me roll my eyes when I'd hear Roy say their names.
@@cherylbaxter8986
Dany, Tyrion, and Jon are immediate likeable. Bran piques curiosity, but if you're familiar with this channel then you probably know as much as you can already.
Jaime starts out so unlikable, even when you know the story already, but gets so good. Always mixed reviews on Cersei chapters, personally I don't enjoy her character.
And, of course, Catelyn is the worst. And Sansa starts so boring and finally gets good when we run out of book.
@@Richard_Nickerson I thought Catelyn ,Cersie an Sansa chapters would be as expected considering how they are in the show
But _why_ do you think the lemon thing is brought up multiple times throughout the books if the first mention was simply an "oversight"? Genuinely interested!
🍋🏰🍋
I really enjoy how y’all are breaking down these chapters! Your insight is fantastic!
Great work with the chapter!!!
As much as I enjoy this series... I am kind of scared, that you Winds of Winter won't be out, before you reach the epilogue of A Dance with Dragon...
Love your work!!!
Dave’s voice at imitating Dany’s serving girls gave me the best laugh I’ve had in awhile. Great work as always guys 👍🏻
You guys just made me appreciate my own arc. That was awesome!
Compliments of the season ☺
good analysis! one thing that's clear is that dany is not pampered and does not have everything handed to her on a platter as some like to claim. perhaps compared to, say, weasel; but not compared to any of the other leading female characters. also that she's smart and observant. maybe her desire for freedom influences her later sympathy for slaves? i completely forgot illyrio was a follower of r'hllor. palan-KEEN is correct, i checked online.
"Reeeeeeegal.." 😂😂😂
A new podcast, it's all I wanted for Xmas! I even forgive you it being two days late.
Ever think that Tywin may be projecting onto Tyrion his own feelings of resentment for causing Joanna's death by getting her pregnant in the first place. It's Tywin's fault his wife died and he can't face/process that.
Tywin has no use for children who don't do what he wants. We see that when he tells his beloved Jaimie that Jaimie is no son of his, after Jaimie refuses to leave the Kingsguard. Just by being a dwarf, Tyrion angered Tywin. So Tywin was done with Tyrion right from the start.
Or is he king Aeris spell check son
@@cherylbaxter8986 sorry,did someone "misspell" a made-up word....?
That was an interesting theory about Khal Drogo having the dragon eggs and orchestrating and take over of Essos. I don't think I have heard anyone discuss this before. Makes me look at things a little differently. Thanks and keep up these re-reads, I'm really enjoying them.
Thanks guys
16:20
OR they took them in knowing they're the last true Valyrians and turned them into running beggars as revenge?
I think they figured out how to get the chickens to hatch. (Fire and Blood reference.)
Palanquin. Both pronunciations are acceptable. One is American English the other is British English. Roy Dotrice uses the American version.
While serfdom isn't slavery, the situation is underpinned with the assumption that your peasants belong to the land and are inherited as much as the land is inherited by the nobles. When feudalism started breaking down after the Black Death and there were far less peasants who then moved to demand higher wages or started moving off their traditional land to places which paid higher, the aristocracy hit back by making it outright illegal for peasants to do as such and doubled down on the whole: you are what you were born as and will die as and where you were born is where you will die.
So yeah, not slavery, but it's barely a step up from it.
Is the New Years stream gonna be New Year’s Eve then or just Thursday as usual?
Actually Darry are 100% Targaryen loyalists. They had woven portraits of all the Targaryen kings when Tyrion and Jaime were in their castle. All the others are more in it for themselves, but all of them schemers and/or power players. He is not completely full of shit.
"Vicious and stupid" also fits Khal Drogo
How?
Love it
OOTGH!!!!!!!
31:06 if she thinks Visera is pathetic, then his power over her is limited too time. Nothing more!
A dragon is no slave.
WARNING
Do not take Roy Dotrice's pronunciation for gospel.
Roy repeatedly mispronounced half of the proper nouns in the books.
He called Brienne "Bry-een" for goodness sake!
From a fellow Brit
Roy also changed his pronunciations throughout his narrations. I don't think there are any "correct" ways to pronounce names/places. Whatever works for you.
what font is that on the left hand side “AGOT” and “Daenerys1” i must know lol
You guys should really watch Preston's video on the page of lies. I think that it has a lot of credibility untill he starts going off about her potentially being a random child from a peasant of dragon stone but alot of the ideas are up to snuff
Definitely. I used to think Preston was a little nuts with the lemon tree, but he makes a pretty convincing case in the page of lies videos.
And the fact that George spotlights the issue again in the Mercy chapter makes me think there's something going on there. Though, as you go on to say, I'm not sure Preston gets it 100% correct
I agree that Preston brings up many good points but that his theory of Dany being a random child from Dragonstone doesn't seem right.
A similar theory I've seen is that Viserys did not obtain the fake Dany from Dragonstone but from Illyrio (a known trader in Valyrian-looking slave girls), who in turn had acquired her from slave traders who had transported her from Tyrosh where the house with the red door is. (I.e. Viserys was never present at the house with the red door.)
Please keep making these wonderful videos. After listening to your previous explanations, I am solidly in the N + A +J camp. The mere belief that John could be anything other than Ned's son is absolutely ridiculous. He is a Ned clone!🌹
Except Preston Jacobs actually asked GRRM about the lemon tree and he did say it wasn't a mistake, but something to think about...
I agree Viserys was an asshole, and it doesn't give him an excuse to abuse Dany. But he was only 8 when his mom died, and probably wasn't surrounded by people that had his best interest at heart. Only people that thought they could use him and Dany for their own greedy purposes.
How can SERVANTS eject the "guests" from a house?
This was based on real life stories from the time of Henry VIII when servants would loot the masters' houses when they died from plague or things like the sweating sickness. There is an excellent example of it on The Tudors.
That's what Vyseris told Dany. She was too young to remember. I wouldn't be surprised if after Darry died Vyseris simply became uncontrollably paranoid and ran way with Dany. They both lost a protector then. And Vyseris was raised with his father, he would learn to not trust servants
@@hypatiakovalevskayasklodow9195 the cheesemonger probably fed him rumors to give him that impression so the two would move along. It's odd that they wouldn't have fortunes tucked away in other cities like Lys or Myr or Norvos like the other major houses in Westeros clearly do. Even the Starks seem to have some connections in Braavos that predate Arya's arrival.
Another thing about the Targaryan kids being welcome in Braavos... didn't the Targaryans put an end to slavery in Westeros? Or was that already banned before Aegon?
Like Daenerys, a young Rhaenyra had a similar wish for a simpler life.
good series
-he was right about the darry loyalty however lol
9:50 "And neither one of their basic needs were met."
It's true that Dany and Viserys have moved residence many times. With many changes of residence came changes in cuisine, culture, climate, and fluctuations in the availability of goods and services. However, Dany's lifestyle was never at any point a lifestyle of deprivation regarding her basic needs. There are some details in the chapter that make that clear, but they'll be more visible to readers who are genuinely trying to challenge the biases that compel them to exaggerate Dany's deprivation.
For example, the previous 6 months of Dany's life were characterized by living "in the magister’s house, eating his food, pampered by his servants." For a long time Dany lived in a "big house" with a red door, where she "had her own room there, with a lemon tree outside her window." She had "servants" at this house, too, who presumably served her the same way Illyrio's servants are serving her today, before their master died. Dany and Viserys had "treasures" to sell, which Viserys sold to fund the journey. Dany has spent her life traveling the world in comfort "from Braavos to Myr" to Tyrosh to Qohor to Volantis to Lys, staying at the houses of wealthy and powerful "magisters and archons and merchant princes" who were "pleased to welcome" them and who will have had servants who served Dany and Viserys the same way Illyrio's servants are serving them now.
The conclusion of this investigation will not invalidate Dany's experiences or desire to prolong her childhood, to stay in one place and lay down roots, it will better contextualize them. Compared to most people in the story, such as the servants, a more balanced interpretation is that Dany has lived and is still living a life of immense wealth, freedom and luxury, and she has a lot to be thankful for. The chapter is highlighting her ingratitude for her situation with juxtapositions like this.
The house with the Red Door an the Lemon Tree now how old was she there to how old she is in Pentos an do you think The house with the Red was in Bravos as I'm not sure if I read no Lemons grow there us that Bravos or Pentos
Dirty secret....as much as I love these books I find the Dany chapters to be the most tedious and boring. I dont know why.
You can grow lemons in cold weather...
seriously? wow how? my grandma's tree kept duying even with being on the inside during colder seasons and getting plenty of sunlight
@@hypatiakovalevskayasklodow9195 maybe it's a rubbish tree. My grandparents had two big lemon trees that survive frosty winters. We had a smaller one that suffered more in summer than winter.
Nobody never heard of or mentions this huge storm Daenerys Targaryen thinks there was when she was born; also George repeatedly keeps bringing attention to lemon tree in other chapters and said it's significant in a interview.
I've wondered if stanis let them escape. Probably not but he was torn on being a rebel
Stannis believes the law should be made of iron, but broke the law to be loyal to his brother. Yeah I am surprised his jaw doesn't break from all the clenching that must have made him do. Robert really should have valued Stannis more.
@@AMAubert totally, but he made his choice so I am probably wrong to think he let them escape. Aside from him being torn there is no real proof I've found in the book to suggest it
No, I don't think so. He never thinks about doing that in his POVs, and also, Stannis is not without his hypocrisy either. He could not forgive the lives of his cousins and aunt, people that were absolutely innocent of crime, but he could do something wrong and evil like killing part of his own family. Also, he broke the law and his very word for his brother, he went against what he believed was the right thing to do, but never paid the price for it. He enforced those very laws he broke for every else's but himself. He is a complicated dude that believes himself more noble and good then he actually is. An interesting character that Stannis XD
@@Munchaussen he doesn't have any POVs, but yeah I doubt he let them go
@@bw126 Sorry, you're right, when I say POV I mean when he speaks with someone that shows us, in this case, Davos if I remember correctly, his view of what happened in Robert's rebelion&after it, his opinion, and the way he sees the world and his actions, its the only way we can understand his character. Plus, I think he does not lie about his motives or actions, what he says is what he believes to be true.
Anyone knows how many people Jon Snow killed? And how many Arya killed ?
there was no storm. have you ever read the dany story that grrm won a prize for??????????????????
Pal-en-keen
viciserys needs a helmet he's so slow lol
Who did jon replace as Mormonts squire?
Dolorous Ed
@@gurtreynolds470 seriously? I had no idea but I listen to the books at work so must have missed that. Thanks
@@dalejennings2677
Yeah but it's not that he replaced Dolores Ed, because Ed continues to be a squire under Mormont with Jon. So I don't think he replaced anyone, it's just that the old Bear gained a second squire. Which isn't all that uncommon, we know characters like Rhaegar & Jamie Lannister have multiple squires at different times
I can't wait 2 cross the narrow sea with my children. Thank U 4 bending the knee. Dracarys.
32:23
It's being patronizing, let's call it what it is haha
Who I'm first
If the lemon tree was a mistake than why when asked about it did grrm say it was a "revelation to come?"
I like yall but i feel like you ignore a lot when it comes to dany.
Viserys was dumb in the sense that a high bien would be like he thought everyone would flock to him because he was the kings last son and a dragon and people toast his health because Robert was a userper, but honestly he’s dumb but also just miss informed and that plays a huge role, I believe that had he been raised by a knight honestly any night it doesn’t have to be Jon Conn or Arthur Dayne just a knight with honour and chivalry he would have grown up to be a much better man and also probably would have spent his teenage years with a little more comfort since the night could take jobs that a kid can’t abs would provide for them. And as dumb as he was he did say some things that were true like the Darry’s being supporters and that Dorne would ride with him.
* High Born* not (bien)
As an English teacher, I am utterly horrified by what you have 'written'.
@@robertphillips213 get used to it, it’s the internet
@@billychops1280 Idoicy of others is no reason to be an idiot yourself.
This made me realize how badly the show messed up Drogo I loved his character but he was very one dimensional you get none of this depth to his character that’s why we read books though. I hope you guys really keep this up I love this series.
Great podcast! Wondering who the fourth man was who whisked them away from Dragonstone... also, I agree 100% with your theory that Ashara Dayne is Septa Lemore. Wouldn't it make more sense if Ned Stark and Ashara Dayne arrived at Dragonstone and swapped Daenerys with Aegon at that point, with Ashara/Septa Lemore taking Aegon to Essos and Ned and the three Kings Guard taking Viserys and Daenerys to the Braavosi coast with Ser Willem Derry? (It would explain how Ned met the Sealord and Syrio Forrel.) Also, I find it deeply significant that Daenerys was introduced at the party as Daenerys STORMBORN and not Daenerys Targaryen. In fact, she was never called Daenerys Targaryen until the dragons hatched. The Daynes are such a magical family and it seems like Val has some connection with Manse/Arthur and also looks just like Daenerys. I don't remember if this was a show-only thing, but I remember Ser Barristan Selmy telling Daenerys that she looked like Ashara Dayne. Daenerys shares Ned's soft heart toward children. She is nothing like Aerys or Viserys, or Rhaegar for that matter. I just don't see her being Aerys's child. Most of the Targaryens are pretty dumb like Viserys. They only kept their power because their ancestors had dragons and they were rich.
Guys 🙂🙂 Peter Dinklage interview???