Thanks for watching and commenting! Be sure to check out Will's channel for some action with this Jeep JKU: ua-cam.com/channels/ZSoYGCdgXOcA0Pm7eBvFEQ.html
I enjoyed your review of these radios. I read some of the comments as well. For what it's worth some of the comments are correct. A HAM with an properly tuned antenna will crush a CB. But....at the end of the day, it's what works and/or what works best. I, too, do some off-roading and I will use what is available. I know that if I have FRS I will not break from the group too far. Currently and since 2017 the FCC has changed a lot of the laws governing GMRS. GMRS now has repeaters and certain channels can use radios with 50W. GMRS does require licensing, but no exams. The advantage is that there is enough traffic on there with people transitioning from CB to GMRS 50W that one can get help if needed and there are those who have tested this out to 35 miles line of sight. I figure on GMRS (UHF) at 50 W and a good antenna you could easily average 10 to 20 miles even with no line of sight (depending on building or mountains)...but UHF. Great review. And thanks.
Older folks remind me of Mom and dad....lived in Inline village for years.... RIP.. Great review...Dad looked like the older gentleman.... Dad took his radio hiking.... biking.... and in his canoe...Even golfing...he had his two-way Motorola's as cell back up.....
Those two older folks are just like I remember Mom and Dad.... they look just like my parents.... lived in incline village 1990-----2009.. RIP Mom and Dad
@@MrSrtman18 Yaesu 2980 or 2900, Kenwood TM-281a. Put a mag mount antenna on a metal roof or trunk. Boom done. Some advantages are that they have way more power, a full size 1/4 wave antenna is under 2 feet long (and they can be shorter), and you can use repeaters if they're in range. Main disadvantage is your whole squad needs to study for and take the technician class exam (easiest one, that's all you need for 2m VHF). Like a driver's test there's a lot about rules, but it'll also teach you how to get the most from the radio.
For the buyer who just buys radios off the shelf (CB, FRS, GMRS, MURS) this is a great video of what they will encounter. Main lesson here if you are not going to take the time research how radio frequencies work just go with CB as it is easy and gets decent performance.
Clipping one of those HT's to the driver side window and using a hand mike produces surprising results. Poke a Nagoya out above the roof. Coax cable is death at those frequencies.
I have GMRS and amateur radios mounted in vehicle. GMRS is at legal max watts and amateur is 50 watts, 35 on UHF. I am researching new CB's which now have FM at 25 watts. Probably just AM/FM on a new CB as SSB and full specs on all modes is very expensive.
Man, thanks to everyone for taking the time to do this. Having a camera running in each rig and the way you edited the sound made for a great video. As a new Ham operator, it gave me a lot to consider. Thanks again!
Thank you for the effort to help out the overlanding and off-road community. I have to say, that even though a number of people in the comments found the video helpful. There's a lot of missed points that lead people to improper conclusions. 1. Radio configuration, what do I mean by that? I mean the difference between mobile, handheld. Any mobile radio with a vehicle mounted antenna is going to do fairly well. Handheld radios by default of configuration and antenna connection are not going to have the same RF gain. 2. Product manufacturer. Testing one of each type regardless of manufacturer is not going to bear out any reasonable results. Product reviewers will test out the same configuration against several competitors and come up with the same unexpected results, because...not all products are equal within a radio category, i.e. ham, CB, FRS, GMRS, FURS etc. To the uninitiated, they would assume this test was rather fair. I believe you ran the test with the sincerest of intentions, but forgot a lot of what I just mentioned. Anyway thanks again for the video.
Without watching the video, I can tell you which one should work better based on the presented equipment. First, lets talk frequency. Gmrs(FRS is same frequency but limited to .5 watts no matter what power setting the radio is on) is ultra high frequency or UHF 462.000mhz, HAM radio is very high frequency or VHF 146.000mhz and CB is high frequency or HF 27.000mhz. Now, UHF and VHF are line of sight only radios, meaning both radios have to have a clear line of sight in order to work properly. We'll talk about why this isn't hard and fast in a minute. CB is on the upper band of the HF spectrum and therefore it has some HF properties. However, the 27mhz band is high enough in frequency and regulated to such a low power, that it's basically a line of sight radio. All this being said. if you had identical radios with properly matched antennas of roughly the same performance, direct line of sight cb would get the farthest distance, followed by the VHF HAM, followed by the UHF GMRS. Just as a rough rule of thumb and under ideal conditions, at 5 watts (the maximum allowed on gmrs and CB) the cb will gain about 30 percent more rang then the VHF, and the VHF will gain about 30 percent more range then the UHF. In simply terms, the higher the frequency, the faster it dissipates. Now, remember how I said CB has some HF properties? This is how CB gains it's extra distance over VHF and UHF (for our purposes). At two meters of hight(a person standing up with a radio to thier ear) the max rang that could be expected from a line of sight radio is about 6 miles across a "flat" plain due to the curvature of the earth. Now, due to the chemical makeup of the atmosphere, the air acts like a prism and the lower frequency of the CB band actually gets bent back towards the earth very slightly over distance. Therefore, electically the Earth appears flatter to the CB band and it gains a bit of distance. Furthermore, the 27mhz band is better about bending around and over objects due to it 33ft wavelength, vs the 6ft wave of the 146mhz. This is why you don't have to have a completely clear line of sight with radios. The radio waves will bend, go over, reflect or go through certain objects. Now, here is why you experienced the results you did. First, I'll bet the cb had a vehicle mounted antenna on the outside of the vehicle. This is a clear advantage over the handheld radios because of surface area and height above ground. Now, even with a vehicle mounted antenna, the VHF and UHF frequencies wouldn't be able to overcome thier technical limitations. But the UHF and VHF would gain significant additional coverage due to the unobstructed view and additional height. All this being said, the reason the UHF works inside of the vehicle is because the higher frequency is able to pass through the vehicle body, while VHF is being reflected off the metal surface and back into the cab. No surprise. Some signal is able to escape out the vehicles windows, however communication would be limited to line of sight out of the window. The easiest solution to gain maximum range on VHF and UHF is to run a roof mounted external antenna. Remember, FRS cannot use external antennas, which gives a clear advantage to the 146mhz HAM. By knowing the properties of each band and what equipment has what effect, you can choose what equipment will serve you best in the intended role. For example, VHF has a clear advantage over UHF over a open field, but is pretty useless inside a large industrial building. At least compared to UHF. CB is pretty much usless in a large skyscraper while UHF might cover multiple floors with ease. Where VHF excels over CB is transmission clarity, the ability to use digital modes, higher power (raises your signal above the noise floor of the surrounding area) and repeaters. With repeaters, it's not uncommon to be able to communicate 40-50 miles on a handheld. 40-50 miles is not going to happen on CB unless it's mountain top to mountain top. Anyway, great video and hope this helps.
Kenneth H. Thank you. Your simple description helps me understand uhf,vhf and hf. A lot better and thier functional properties. I have a technician license but all of the descriptions all run together in my mind. They were confusing to me because people use different descriptions for the same things. Such as frequencies, type of radio ( CB. Ham, frs .)and vhf, vhf and hf. I hear a lot of people using these different descriptions interchangeably. Though I understand the use of different descriptions when talking specifically. Thanks! M.H.
@@n1yln nice Italian name O'Lena. Of course he being Italian used to tell me all the time the smartest thing he ever did was marry an Irish woman. And personally I'm grateful he did. Except one Christmas as a stocking stuffer I got a book called The Great Cooks of Ireland. Turned out to be a pamphlet that said see another country. God bless Eddy have a good one
The external CB antenna is going to do the best because the radios are a bit higher powered and the fact the antenna is longer and outside. But if the individuals would step outside and away from the vehicles, each radio would do better. Even stepping up on a close small hill would greatly improve the reception. The HAM radio can be equipped with an external remote antenna to mount on the top of the vehicle. It would also greatly improve that radio's usage. A mic/speaker unit can also be added.
If this test were done today it would be interesting to see how much more out of area signals on CB were affecting communications. You see there's an 11 year long sunspot cycle and the more sunspots there are, the more reflective the ionosphere gets allowing distant signals on HF to skip off and return to Earth far beyond line of sight. In the last three years we've gone from the bottom of the cycle and conditions have perked up making long distance communication on CB easier but adding to the background noise that can make local communications more difficult. VHF and UHF are much less affected by this than HF which includes CB frequencies. I appreciate the effort it took to make this video.
I am a licensed ham operator, and been so for many years. But one thing I can't stand is for ham operators who always get so furious, constantly trying to police things and panicking over petty things like this. The only time I am concerned is if someone is causing "harmful interference" or right out causing the kind of trouble that ruins the hobby for us licensed operators. Although it is technically illegal in the eyes of the FCC, but they were in a rural area, not using a repeater or intentionally trying to do any harm. I think ham operators just need to enjoy the hobby, and stay out of affairs that don't concern them. Going 1mph over the posted speed limit is just as illegal, but you don't hear anyone making a big fuss about the people who do it.
@@AllTerrainFamily Ok gotcha. But I think you see my point, and from some of the comments here from people who assume you weren't licensed and pointing out every little thing that could possibly be illegal.
The CB has an Antenna on the out side mounted to vehicle so it is no surprised it was working little better. Rubber duckies aren't as good as 1/4 wave vehicle mounted antennas .You might want to do it again with a hand held CB or get a mobile mount ham antenna." Your test is highly flawed". Even using a rubber ducky on a mag or window mount isn't as good, you need a mobile ham antenna and the same transmit power to get a good and fair test.(low profile VHF antennas are as bad as rubber duckies) At a distance handheld antennas needs to be held in the same direction.If 1 is vertical and the other is horizontal the the polarization are off and signal quality will very. HF can go over and around a hill a little better because of the longer wave. It is always best to have more then 1 form of communication in the back country. Have at least 1 VHF and/or one UHF along with HF "CB or ham" The ones you need are the ones most people are using in the area.You can have all the radios in the world if no one is listening then they are useless especially in an emergency situation. There a few mobile 2m/70cm mobile rigs that are under $200.00. I think you might have at least a Tech license, I am not an expert but I have been you using CB as far back as the 70s and obtained my Ham ticket in 2002 I currently hold a Extra class Amateur license, Several decades ago I went through Basic EMT school as well as Open water and wilderness search and rescue courses. Those certifications are expired. 73 Jim KG4TRI
Radio channels need more videos like this! Well done! Hoping to see something with GMRS vs UHF Ham and CB vs 10m Ham one day on youtube. Distances would be cool, not necessarily analogous to other areas but still a cool little demonstration of real world distances. Also listing wattages of each would be cool to show that maybe wattage isn't as important as other aspects (like external antennas) to newbies.
GMRS is basically the same as UHF ham radio when using up to 50 watts FM. That includes repeaters for both services. Ten meter ham is also the same if you used the same power and mode. But hams often will use higher power than the 4 watts AM for CB and they often will use SSB. I is too bad that CB could not have been required to use SSB because it effectively doubles the channels to 80 and with the higher allowed power of 12 watts PEP on CB SSB, it can outperform "regular" AM CB. I regularly talk to another ham at around 30 miles on CB LSB but this is from home stations with modest antennas at around 30 feet off the ground. I don't think that would be possible with mobiles. The biggest downer with CB is that the 27 MHz frequency needs rather large (8 + foot) antennas to be reasonably efficient so most mobiles are a compromise and HTs are very impractical.
@rickwilliams5817 CB now has FM mode which can go to 25 watts. The drawback is that to get a new CB with full power on each mode is very expensive. Like north of $600.
Thank you for your time, the great edit job & meticulous test. It certainly helped me being a beginner trying to understand which one to install in my truck. Keep up the good work!
Great vid for a non-radio/rookie guy like me.. Looking to buy radios up here in Idaho.. Great to see the effects in and out of the car and the it was done in plain English...
Moral of the story, have an externally mounted antenna radio system. I've never heard of the rugged radio before but I think the main thing this video shows is that all radio systems are great for short range but to reach out you need an antenna that is up high above the plane of your vehicle to work at longer distances.
It's really fun and interesting watching you run these tests. I've been a ham for my entire life and with 50 years of experience, I will say you demonstrated exactly what I expected. You see the band that the radio transmits on has a lot to do with the propagation of the signals. The ham radio I think is set on 2M at 144 mhz, FRS is in the 460 mhz band and CB is in the UPPER HF at 27 mhz. This all matters. HF wins in ground wave, bends a little around objects and over hills, plus the antenna is out of the vehicle in relative free space. The FRS and ham HT are inside of a Faraday Cage - that being your car which will trap the signals to some degree. And finally a 460 mhz you were experiencing shadowing - where moving the radio as little as 3 inches will put the receiving antenna in a null vs 3 inches another way where you get a strong signal. I was guessing at the start that the CB might do best, followed by the Ham if it has sight of the antenna tower.
You may have not noticed, but most of the bad reception situations, you had the antenna in position other than vertical. Omni-directional antennas radiate in a doughnut shape, so if the transmitting antenna is under a different angle than a receiving one, the signal is reduced. As for the ham radio, you should have used a magnet antenna on a car.It is not expensive, and requires no permanent installation. The huge amount of metal in the car acts as a "electromagnetic ground" so unless the whole antenna is above the roof, you are effectively transmitting from the basement.
While this is an older video the antenna issue you mentioned is the first thing I noticed as well regarding the reception issues. I would also try testing with a magnetic mount antenna for dealing with such distances.
I put a BNC adapter on my HAM handle talkie. Allows me to quickly swap the antenna to a cable connected to an external antenna when I'm in the truck. Best of both worlds.
The stress testing on these units was an exceptional side by side comparison. The terrain being a tough environment. Amazing the difference when the vehicle component was removed and introduced. Good data results. Great job to all.
Those "Rugged Trail" radios are nothing more than rebranded Baofengs at 4x the price. They are also 100 percent illegal to use without a license. Want to use license-free vhf? Get the Btech MURS radios. They use the same frequency range, but are actually legal to use. Plus they're much less expensive.
@See Jay 1. That doesn't mean what you obviously think it means. 2. "404 not found." Invalid link. 3. I have the frequency lists of their radios. Some of the frequencies are license-free MURS and FRS frequencies. As for the others, if you read this blog from RR themselves you will see where the question is asked point-blank and they answer that YOU must obtain a license from the FCC for a "nominal fee" ($300 btw): www.ruggedradios.com/blog/vhf-and-uhf-explained/ The licenses they hold are only good for specific events at specific times and places, where they are actually onsite during the event and give you permission to use their license, for that event only. Anything beyond that is illegal. That's why they were so vague and misleading about it, and reference a page that doesn't exist.
@See Jay Those Rugged Radios are sold primarily programmed with racing frequencies. Any of those frequencies require an individual license. Any Murs frequencies do not. Any FRS frequencies on those radios are probably not type accepted (part 95). Any GMRS frequencies in those radio are also probably not type accepted (part 95). Any other frequencies are probably Amateur license required (part 97).
Try the same test with external antennas mounted on top of your vehicles. When your inside a vehicle, your essentially inside a mobile (Faraday cage). 2m and 70cm bands are pretty much (not always) line of sight propagation so anything in between the radios will cause some interference.
The ft60 is able to operate through a repeater and simplex and would also be able to communicate with the rugged radio and frs, if you connected the ft60 to an external antenna it would improve range and give better comparison to cb, ( ft60 is 4w and cub is probably 10w) if I were stuck I would rather take my chances getting help on the ft60,
Mounting and tuning a HAM or GMRS antenna is just as easy, in most cases its actually easier since many times when you hook your meter up to it you wont even have to tune the GMRS or HAM antenna. The antennas are far shorter than CB so a lot less to get hung up on. As far as talking to a repeater vs simplex? Yes it is different. Repeaters typically have much higher quality antennas at an elevated postion and high quality radios as well. Its a lot easier for the repeater to deal with a weak signal than another mobile or handheld unit doing simplex. As far as cost. Yes a cheap cb is a lot.cheaper. Theres now plenty of affordable HAM and GMRS options out there.
Renoite here too...I have the same Yaesu handheld and I also have a Yaesu mobile radio. There is no comparison with simplex reach. However, you made a really important comment early on to the effect of...most of my friends don't have ham equipment or license. So, while ham with an external antenna would have won this challenge, if no one in your group has a radio or license, it doesn't matter! When I lead my friends on rides out in northern or central NV, I just make sure we stay physically close and we all use FRS. Curious if you ever have meetups? Love to join for a trip, Cheers, I enjoy your channel.
The gentlemen in the grey shirt in the Rubicon, whoever's jeep that is, that is one sick build. i love how everything looks so in place on the dashboard. Props!
I would love to see the test with a vehicle mounted antenna. The HT connected to a vehicle mounted antenna with a quick connect to go back and forth between mobile and in vehicle and reap the benefits of a better transmit and receive
Outside of what everyone else pointed out, a noise filter between the CB power source and radio could be used to filter out the alternator noise in Jr's car. Sr's car is okay. Might filter out that fan noise, be it ac blower or electric fan for cooling engine.
@@pareidoliarocks I'm not quite sure how to answer this except, utilizing many different kinds of radio services in different mobile applications. Just experienced, I guess. No nonsense.
If I am not mistaken you are using a Yaesu ft-60. This radio is one of best Hamradio ever made. You need and exterior antenna. We use them at the rubicon trail flawlessly.
All-Terrain Family I have a couple of nice Comet antennas I run externally on my JK with an HT if you want to check them out before buying - let me know and I can run down from Incline - Chris (I’m planning an eventual mobile rig but waiting on the AT-D578UV to be released)
All-Terrain Family I’m assuming no one on the video holds an amateur radio license, which is required if you want to use the amateur frequencies. I’d stick to something legal, although I’m sure very few people in the 4x4 community pays attention to that. GMRS radios with EXTERNAL antennae would be the way to go. You DO need a license; however, $80 license covers the entire family for 5 years. GMRS MOBILE radios allow 50 watts (instead of CB’s 4 watts), are repeater capable, and would probably give better performance with variable rocky terrain.
@Situational Ready of course. And we've all made that mistake at some point down the line. When we come across the product we think is pretty good, only to find out later it was a more expensive knock off. We feel duped and stupid. LOL
Rugged radios are race radios for use under special permits at events. They have pre set channels that can’t be changed. So they’re not exactly just a knockoff. But they’re also not exactly a consumer product either.
@@AllTerrainFamily do you not realize that baofeng radios do the exact same thing? LOL yes these are in fact a knockoff. They're nearly identical to baofeng. Only a fool would buy this brand when baofeng is much cheaper.
You can add a Mobile Ham VHZ/UHF 50 watt unit that has an external antenna just like the CB abd it should easily outperform all of them. It is less expensive than the HT. The externa antenna will use the roof of the vehicle as a large ground plane. Good report!
As you mentioned they are using mounted CBs which means external antenna vs a handheld CB. That a big part of why the CB is working so much clearer. When running a CB there were times I could actually reach people 100's of miles away. Rare, but if sitting on a peak above the city line I could get great range.
Cb has the longest wave so I would think it should perform better and being mounted vertically and a more stable swr grounding. Edited still watching... awesome video guys
Ham handheld with a Mobil antenna would do better than the rubber duck. Also a regular Ham 2 meter/dual band Mobil Rug at 35-50 watts would really do great. Same form factor as a compact CB Mobil mount, probably close in price too. Also, 6 meter Ham (54mhz) is supposed to do better in hilly terrain vs. 2meter, 440, vhf, uhf. Do like a nice CB too!
Really appreciate this video. We are told get a ham radio. Getting a license is easy. But as one who is not into ham radio, antennas, & programming the bloody devices. It all seems so daunting. Not to mention, getting a ham is only useful if you assume all overlanders are licensed. This is a tough sell to the average 4x4 weekender.
I have GRMS and Ham, but if I had to pick just one I'd go with a mobile GRMS radio for the Jeep and a HT(hand talkie aka walkie talkie) for outside the vehicle. Rugged Radios has some pretty good deals.
Mountain terrain can be rough , but you should also consider what's IN the mountain. I have a mountain in the way of a repeater which should here me even with the rough terrain but... the mountain happens to be the site of an old iron ore mine and my signal simply doesn't escape the valley. The repeater is within 10 miles and hears the next valley over fine. Just something to think about.
I really like 27 MHz CB radios. They are convenient, easy to install and do not require a license. They do their job very well with a good quality antenna properly installed on the car. Many miles of range are possible. There are beautiful CB radios from various well-known brands of excellent quality for little money. On CB you have 40 channels to choose from in AM, FM or SSB modulation. CB radio is so easy to use, for everyone. No hassle with HAM permits needed, just grab the mike and speak to your friends in the group. I love it !
We’ve used handheld HAM for spotters and reserve mounted HAM with external antennas for inside the vehicle for best results. The handheld % of success inside a vehicle without an external was too low to rely on. As mentioned, CB is easiest as no license but I like having HAM for reaching people not in the group in case of emergencies. How far were these checkpoints? Thanks for this video!
Cool video. We use CB radios in trucks. There's places we might be on a narrow road for miles and we can't pass each other so we use CB radios that out 100 watt's or more we can talk for 20 miles and more. So with that being said it's just a matter of what you prefer and how much you are willing to invest in whatever you choose to use. Great video though I enjoyed it
That's all pretty good to be a hand held. I personally like to have a good set up inside and hand held. There is some good Ham/Cb radios out there. You could get it peaked and tune with a good Antenna and it do wonders. I know it be a little bulking inside but it's worth it.
Thanks for the time you spent trying to find the best solution to this problem, that being said you were comparing apples to oranges. It was quite obvious you were using three handhelds and a mobile CB with an external antenna. You were also using the Ham Radio in simplex mode and not using the Repeater. The reason you are having so much trouble inside the vehicle is that the vehicle is acting as a faraday cage and blocking most of the RF. It's all about power and gain of the external antenna. I think for most overlanders , the mobile CB with an external antenna is going to be the best bet . However, I would take a 50watt VHF HAM mobile with a 5/8 wave external with the ability to work simplex or through a Repeater over any radio you tested. Thanks, Heath N4TWT
Man...a guy could probably pass the Technion Class exam by the end of reading these comments. Thanks for all you Hams for kicking in here. That said; I do think its better to view the test as "how each is routinely set up and used in an everyday sort of way". I'd like to see a round 2 with different variables variabled....and revariabled! ...several ways...or something
I just got the midland . we just use it to talk when we dont have cell service and we are fallowing each other . a ham would be good to call for help if you think about going way out.
When using an HT inside a vehicle, you are basically putting it inside a faraday cage, which prevents signals from getting in or out. This is why most vehicle mounted radios use exterior antennas, along with having better range/ reception. Otherwise, this is a cool video. Keep up the good work.
Really looking forward to the distances and terrain for the checkpoints. Your video is one of the better comparisons I have seen between different competing communications services. And showing the real time comparisons with the video inserts between stations was very professionally done. - Could you detail the frequencies and power levels of each of the radios? - A GMRS 5 watt handheld would be nice to compare with the FRS. - I sure would like to see a comparison with MURS which is licensed by rule (like CB and FRS) and allows up to 2 watts output on VHF with detachable gain antennas and would be similar to a 2 meter radio. - Is the FRS transceiver a 500 milliwatt (.5 watt) HT or one of the newer ones that now allows up to 2 watts ERP on all channels except the 467 MHz interstitials (Channels 8 through 14) which remain at .5 watts? Using an HT inside a vehicle (Faraday shielded cage), or as you noted, even near the vehicle, causes tremendous loss of signal. Using any outside antenna, even a somewhat inefficient shortened CB antenna (for CB) can work fairly well. I also notice that there are not that many users of SSB on CB. The SSB capable radios have really come down in price (such as the Uniden 980SSB for just over $100) and can significantly extend range because they operate with 12 watts PEP output and reduce receive interference (narrower bandwidth) over AM CB which only allows 4 watts output.
So, looking into it some more, I think the Midland was tuned to channel 27 and thats a GMRS channel. I need to figure out if it was also set to high power, which would make it NOT FRS. So confusing. It's almost like radio makers don't want you to know what you're doing.
Great video... Respectfully The Rugged Radio is a Ham radio. It's a rebadged Baofeng UV5R that comes programmed. You can buy exterior antennas for the Baofeng/Ham/Rugged radios and put the antenna on the roof which will give you better reception. Inside of the car causes RF feedback
Love all radios. FRS, GMRS, Ham, and CB. The advantage to Ham radio is you can run much more power. When condition are bad you may run 1500 watts and not really go anywhere. When one band is dead you can always go to a different frequency or band and usually find one that's working. That is not the meaning of the video. If I had to pick one during a complete blackout in a car (hate to say it being a ham)probably would be a CB. Only because more people have them in there car or truck .It would have to be a long black out with repeaters down. Worst case scenario type thing.
Thanks for the video, as a new HAM it was a bit eye opening with the real world aspect of the HT's. Reading the comments were not a surprise, but you were doing a 'real world' test with how people who haven't been researching or playing in this field for years would try and use the radios and that is valuable! I got my tech license because I thought this would be the way to go for 4x4 comms in the future, but actually am now thinking the GMRS route with vehicle mounted radios and antennas, and handhelds for outside use, are the way of the future. I think Jeep Jamboree will be moving this direction since this year they aren't requiring CB anymore (like they have for many years up till last year), they recommend it but are 'evaluating' future radio requirements. Too bad the government is so damn greedy and are charging $70 for a license where no test is involved! I just paid $10 for a test and license for HAM.
@@AllTerrainFamily not a cool comment. You might not agree with the FCC but you shouldn't prompt breaking the laws. Maybe if you don't agree with it then should to try to get it changed.
ghorman So, my comment wasn’t to insinuate he was doing something illegal, which is possible (and I could not care less), but to insinuate that HAM operators were upset by the validity - or lack there of - of the test. Obviously in a proper setup a good HAM with an antenna just like the CB will outperform the CB. Also, depending on 2m vs 70cm the results would vary greatly with the handhelds. Way to many variables making this test nothing more than a direct observation of what you could expect using those exact devices, on those setting, on that hill. To HAM operators everywhere, you have got to stop taking yourselves so seriously. You will continue to alienate anyone who has even a chance to get interested in the hobby.
@@JimYeats hams running people off never lol. Might be the reason I spent a crap load of money for a nice yaesu and it's now collecting dust and haven't been on the air in years. I honestly don't know if I'll even renew my license at this point.
I have radio that operates on the MURS frequency, using a Larson mag mounts on trucks with a 5/8 wave antenna can give you extended range . 152 MHz. Thx
I'm ex-law enforcement and fireman. After paying close attention to the participants inside the vehicles, I will conclude that most of the radios work the same except that some of the participants point the radios down or away from the direction the receiving radio is. Even your body can block the signal if you just turn a bit while speaking. Great information anyways. Thanks
Agreed. Most of the issues come from using handheld radios inside vehicles (faraday cage), or holding the radios horizontal which will kill your reception. When using radios inside of a vehicle you should have an external antenna. And your radio (and antenna) should always be pointed vertically.
This was good. When the water level is low we like to camp out in leviathan hot springs. We dont always go all together and some times cell service doesn't work that well down there. Do you think if I was in gardnerville a C.B. signal would reach? We are always looking for some kind of communication when head down there
The distance between coms is just one factor to the quality of transmission and reception. Basically terrain is another factor for consideration. Most GMRS, and FRS are line of sight radio bands which means as long as the is no obstruction between coms and the area does not have hills or maintains in between, the transmission will be clear. Hight is another factor to consider. As a rule of thumb "hight is might". The higher you and you com is the better your transmission and reception will be. A vantage point of being on top of a hill will definitely improve your com.
For those getting into radios find the newer 2watt FRS radios. The old blister pack frs/gmrs radios were limited to .5watt on FRS and 5watts for GMRS. This was part of the latest FCC change in the guidelines for FRS and GMRS. They were split apart and FRS got the power upgrade.
Yes. The midland we used is the new version. It’s still really hard to figure out what you’re allowed to use without a license. It’s understandable that a lot of people are using the, improperly.
Was the rugged radio the GMRS he was testing? But yeah on the FRS, I used to have a bunch of them they were bad, like a mile at best if that much. I also live in an area with hills, houses, cars and trees around but want to talk to my friends who live a few miles to 5 miles away. Any recommendations?
As far as the cb, if you would put a traditional dash mounted unit in the jeep and add a 108" whip, you would have no problems with the cb at all. As for the ham radio also antenna mounted on vehicle with external mic.
Something in your truck is desensitizing your 2M receiver. Dashcams are notorious for causing this, but the interference could be just about anything. I typically see the UHF bands are not affected, exactly as you are observing.
Probably would have had better luck on the Yaesu on a 70cm simplex frequency instead of 2m simplex frequency. Think it would have worked better from within the vehicle. An external mobile antenna (1/4 wave or 5/8 wave) on 2m would help hugely. A 2 meter-only mobile radio wouldn't cost anywhere near $400; more like $140. -73 W5ESE
As a kid in the 1970's CB's were massively popular in most 4x4 trucks and other vehicles of the day riding high on the great CB radio craze sweeping the nation , that is until the skip phenomenon (super long distant signal propagation) became a regular occurrence and by decades end many were turned off to CB. By the time me and my friends were driving in the woods in the 80's and 90's we had no radio communications of any kind or could care less for such a thing. Given where I live (western Canada) I think its still a question where all can be aware or agree on a particular radio band or format model be it CB, GMRS, VHF/HAM ect or even wanting a 2 way radio at all. . I think its all still up in the air at the moment.
It would be great if you could add GMRS radios to the comparison. I have a Midlands 40 Watt GMRS, and It would be cool to see how it compares to the others.
Not the case. The hams are programmatically blocked from using the GMRS frequencies even though in paper they are in range. Some of them you can hack to access gmrs and frs though.
Considering many people will use them the way you tested this was a good test, I am sure some people will have 50 other things you should have done, etc. But most people buy the hand held radio and use it as a hand held radio. Once you start talking the extra price and installation costs then people just do not buy it. You could probably filter out the fan interference I am guessing is what some of it was. I received my license many moons ago and have forgotten most of what i learned. I understand why you no longer can get a lifetime license I would need to study up to pass the test again since I never do anything to keep it fresh in my mind. Good real world test, yes you could have done a bunch of other things but people do not buy antennas for cheap radios and mount them on a vehicle. Be Safe!
The best way to go about it is to set it up as similar as possible - similar antenna's, similar radio (mobile rig - CB is mounted vs. handheld FRS / "rugged" / HAM). HAM antenna's are an important part of a HAM rig.
For me the GMRS with a magnet mount roof antenna is great. Bingfu with ground plane radials, 16foot coax with SMA F adapter, to be very specific. SWR is great right at GMRS freqs. GREAT real-world, rapid-fire test, btw. 👍
Thank you for such an informative video. Planning a trip cross country next year. Although, just started in the communication Industry, trying to acquire the necessary information needed to make that educated decision as to what direction in radio communication would be best for I and my family. Thinking the CB interior mount in my jeep as well as a ham interior mount 7900. Allow me to define Cross country:......would be the travel from SC....to .......Arizona....Calif.... yellowstone, Utah....teton....Rapid City and on and on...because of your knowledge and experience in the radio communiction industry.....I'd most definitely appreciate any input you can provide. Emergencies do happen...just want to be prepared.....Respectfully. Ron.
I didn’t read thru all 700 comments, but it would be interesting to know if you were using the ham radio in the vhf or uhf band. The vhf goes farther thru unobstructed terrain, while uhf goes thru obstructions more easily.
Thanks for the Video! Were you using a GMRS freq on the Rugged Radios??? I would be willing to bet if you used external antenna's on 2 meters and GMRS the results would be a lot different.
Wow, what a good test. The cell phone call was funny Up in the mount hood forest no cell coverage I was stuck for five days I had supplies, but no one drive by for days. I hada scanner hearing repeaters on 2meters perfect but could not talk. With a come along and some logging cable got out in two days
I am not surprised the AM CB 27Mhz worked better than handhelds, those "rugged radios" looked suspiciously like a rebadged Baofeng UV5R (entry spec ham radio). Given the plethora of aftermarket gear for the Baofengs a handheld could be configured with an external microphone and antenna 👍
"those "rugged radios" looked suspiciously like a rebadged Baofeng UV5R" They are and at very high prices when compared to the UV5R! "(entry spec ham radio)" The UV5R's are Part 90 certified business band HT's and are only usable on ham frequencies, when modified, by a licensed ham. Not legal for MURS VHF-FM, no license required,\; FRS UHF-FM, no license required or GMRS UHF-FM, license required (not type accepted, those are Part 95 radio services like CB).
Output power and also antenna situation need to be considered. CB result was good as its antenna is always mounted outside with better conditions than others.
Think about the wavelengths versus the size of the windows. The FRS wavelength is about 65cm whereas the ham radio was 2m. The vehicle was probably more of a faraday cage to the 2m signal. If I was serious about using ham radio for this application I'd be using 50w mobile rigs with roof antennas. Or, instead of FRS I'd be using 40 watt GMRS with roof antennas. --de N3TPS/WRAT786
This is super cool !!! HAM and FCC can kiss my Midland , lol.......I appreciate this a ton. I just need to know if im winching a Chevy from the front or the back typically ..Or if the dude 3 trucks in front just went under water. Midland will do that
CB all the way. If you get the right antenna and set it up correctly, you can have a powerful setup - especially with SSB. Most of this stuff is all circumstantial, it's whatever works best on YOUR own rig.
Antennas work omnidirectional. They receive and broadcast best when all the antennas on the channel are vertically polarized(everyone holding them at the exact same angle, straight up and down) Also vhf and uhf radios and their range rely greatly on length of the antennas being relative to frequency in Mhz, not all brands and models are created equal.
Thanks for watching and commenting! Be sure to check out Will's channel for some action with this Jeep JKU: ua-cam.com/channels/ZSoYGCdgXOcA0Pm7eBvFEQ.html
I enjoyed your review of these radios. I read some of the comments as well. For what it's worth some of the comments are correct. A HAM with an properly tuned antenna will crush a CB. But....at the end of the day, it's what works and/or what works best. I, too, do some off-roading and I will use what is available. I know that if I have FRS I will not break from the group too far. Currently and since 2017 the FCC has changed a lot of the laws governing GMRS. GMRS now has repeaters and certain channels can use radios with 50W. GMRS does require licensing, but no exams. The advantage is that there is enough traffic on there with people transitioning from CB to GMRS 50W that one can get help if needed and there are those who have tested this out to 35 miles line of sight. I figure on GMRS (UHF) at 50 W and a good antenna you could easily average 10 to 20 miles even with no line of sight (depending on building or mountains)...but UHF. Great review. And thanks.
Older folks remind me of Mom and dad....lived in Inline village for years.... RIP..
Great review...Dad looked like the older gentleman.... Dad took his radio hiking.... biking.... and in his canoe...Even golfing...he had his two-way Motorola's as cell back up.....
Those two older folks are just like I remember Mom and Dad.... they look just like my parents.... lived in incline village 1990-----2009..
RIP Mom and Dad
A true mobile Ham radio wired into the vehicle with a proper mobile antenna would be a slam dunk winner.
Ditto that remark!
I agree. KK7T.
What would that be. Model brand or any info.
@@MrSrtman18 depends on your budget. I would recommend an icom2300h or yaesu 2900. If you are looking strictly at 2m.
@@MrSrtman18 Yaesu 2980 or 2900, Kenwood TM-281a. Put a mag mount antenna on a metal roof or trunk. Boom done. Some advantages are that they have way more power, a full size 1/4 wave antenna is under 2 feet long (and they can be shorter), and you can use repeaters if they're in range.
Main disadvantage is your whole squad needs to study for and take the technician class exam (easiest one, that's all you need for 2m VHF). Like a driver's test there's a lot about rules, but it'll also teach you how to get the most from the radio.
Don’t use a HT inside a vehicle and then wonder why poor signal.
👆 yep. My thoughts exactly.
also you 20db (which is a LOT) because the guy with wife was holding the antenna horizontal
If you're offroading you dont want to have to get out everytime you want to say something 🤷🏼♂️
Get an an antenna on the roof. And yes duh face I did watch it.
cody bogert which is why a good mobile radio is far better.
For the buyer who just buys radios off the shelf (CB, FRS, GMRS, MURS) this is a great video of what they will encounter.
Main lesson here if you are not going to take the time research how radio frequencies work just go with CB as it is easy and gets decent performance.
Clipping one of those HT's to the driver side window and using a hand mike produces surprising results. Poke a Nagoya out above the roof. Coax cable is death at those frequencies.
I also decided to go with CB instead of this mess
They all should have been vehicle mounted or all hand held, I like the idea of having a GMRS in the vehicle plus a handheld
I have GMRS and amateur radios mounted in vehicle. GMRS is at legal max watts and amateur is 50 watts, 35 on UHF. I am researching new CB's which now have FM at 25 watts. Probably just AM/FM on a new CB as SSB and full specs on all modes is very expensive.
Man, thanks to everyone for taking the time to do this. Having a camera running in each rig and the way you edited the sound made for a great video. As a new Ham operator, it gave me a lot to consider. Thanks again!
Agreed! Great proofing video, one of my favorite comparison videos so far.
Thank you for the effort to help out the overlanding and off-road community. I have to say, that even though a number of people in the comments found the video helpful. There's a lot of missed points that lead people to improper conclusions. 1. Radio configuration, what do I mean by that? I mean the difference between mobile, handheld. Any mobile radio with a vehicle mounted antenna is going to do fairly well. Handheld radios by default of configuration and antenna connection are not going to have the same RF gain. 2. Product manufacturer. Testing one of each type regardless of manufacturer is not going to bear out any reasonable results. Product reviewers will test out the same configuration against several competitors and come up with the same unexpected results, because...not all products are equal within a radio category, i.e. ham, CB, FRS, GMRS, FURS etc. To the uninitiated, they would assume this test was rather fair. I believe you ran the test with the sincerest of intentions, but forgot a lot of what I just mentioned. Anyway thanks again for the video.
External antennas are a must if you want any kind of distance with any of those radios.
Without watching the video, I can tell you which one should work better based on the presented equipment. First, lets talk frequency. Gmrs(FRS is same frequency but limited to .5 watts no matter what power setting the radio is on) is ultra high frequency or UHF 462.000mhz, HAM radio is very high frequency or VHF 146.000mhz and CB is high frequency or HF 27.000mhz. Now, UHF and VHF are line of sight only radios, meaning both radios have to have a clear line of sight in order to work properly. We'll talk about why this isn't hard and fast in a minute. CB is on the upper band of the HF spectrum and therefore it has some HF properties. However, the 27mhz band is high enough in frequency and regulated to such a low power, that it's basically a line of sight radio. All this being said. if you had identical radios with properly matched antennas of roughly the same performance, direct line of sight cb would get the farthest distance, followed by the VHF HAM, followed by the UHF GMRS. Just as a rough rule of thumb and under ideal conditions, at 5 watts (the maximum allowed on gmrs and CB) the cb will gain about 30 percent more rang then the VHF, and the VHF will gain about 30 percent more range then the UHF. In simply terms, the higher the frequency, the faster it dissipates. Now, remember how I said CB has some HF properties? This is how CB gains it's extra distance over VHF and UHF (for our purposes). At two meters of hight(a person standing up with a radio to thier ear) the max rang that could be expected from a line of sight radio is about 6 miles across a "flat" plain due to the curvature of the earth. Now, due to the chemical makeup of the atmosphere, the air acts like a prism and the lower frequency of the CB band actually gets bent back towards the earth very slightly over distance. Therefore, electically the Earth appears flatter to the CB band and it gains a bit of distance. Furthermore, the 27mhz band is better about bending around and over objects due to it 33ft wavelength, vs the 6ft wave of the 146mhz. This is why you don't have to have a completely clear line of sight with radios. The radio waves will bend, go over, reflect or go through certain objects. Now, here is why you experienced the results you did. First, I'll bet the cb had a vehicle mounted antenna on the outside of the vehicle. This is a clear advantage over the handheld radios because of surface area and height above ground. Now, even with a vehicle mounted antenna, the VHF and UHF frequencies wouldn't be able to overcome thier technical limitations. But the UHF and VHF would gain significant additional coverage due to the unobstructed view and additional height. All this being said, the reason the UHF works inside of the vehicle is because the higher frequency is able to pass through the vehicle body, while VHF is being reflected off the metal surface and back into the cab. No surprise. Some signal is able to escape out the vehicles windows, however communication would be limited to line of sight out of the window. The easiest solution to gain maximum range on VHF and UHF is to run a roof mounted external antenna. Remember, FRS cannot use external antennas, which gives a clear advantage to the 146mhz HAM.
By knowing the properties of each band and what equipment has what effect, you can choose what equipment will serve you best in the intended role. For example, VHF has a clear advantage over UHF over a open field, but is pretty useless inside a large industrial building. At least compared to UHF. CB is pretty much usless in a large skyscraper while UHF might cover multiple floors with ease. Where VHF excels over CB is transmission clarity, the ability to use digital modes, higher power (raises your signal above the noise floor of the surrounding area) and repeaters. With repeaters, it's not uncommon to be able to communicate 40-50 miles on a handheld. 40-50 miles is not going to happen on CB unless it's mountain top to mountain top.
Anyway, great video and hope this helps.
The earth is flat
Kenneth H. Thank you. Your simple description helps me understand uhf,vhf and hf. A lot better and thier functional properties. I have a technician license but all of the descriptions all run together in my mind. They were confusing to me because people use different descriptions for the same things. Such as frequencies, type of radio ( CB. Ham, frs .)and vhf, vhf and hf. I hear a lot of people using these different descriptions interchangeably. Though I understand the use of different descriptions when talking specifically. Thanks! M.H.
@@Anthonyhenryricci Bwahaha. Good one!
@@n1yln nice Italian name O'Lena. Of course he being Italian used to tell me all the time the smartest thing he ever did was marry an Irish woman. And personally I'm grateful he did. Except one Christmas as a stocking stuffer I got a book called The Great Cooks of Ireland. Turned out to be a pamphlet that said see another country. God bless Eddy have a good one
You advice was excellent..this video is a example of why the radio community wants nothing to do with the 4 by 4 community.
It's all about the antenna
The external CB antenna is going to do the best because the radios are a bit higher powered and the fact the antenna is longer and outside. But if the individuals would step outside and away from the vehicles, each radio would do better. Even stepping up on a close small hill would greatly improve the reception.
The HAM radio can be equipped with an external remote antenna to mount on the top of the vehicle. It would also greatly improve that radio's usage. A mic/speaker unit can also be added.
If this test were done today it would be interesting to see how much more out of area signals on CB were affecting communications. You see there's an 11 year long sunspot cycle and the more sunspots there are, the more reflective the ionosphere gets allowing distant signals on HF to skip off and return to Earth far beyond line of sight. In the last three years we've gone from the bottom of the cycle and conditions have perked up making long distance communication on CB easier but adding to the background noise that can make local communications more difficult. VHF and UHF are much less affected by this than HF which includes CB frequencies. I appreciate the effort it took to make this video.
I am a licensed ham operator, and been so for many years. But one thing I can't stand is for ham operators who always get so furious, constantly trying to police things and panicking over petty things like this. The only time I am concerned is if someone is causing "harmful interference" or right out causing the kind of trouble that ruins the hobby for us licensed operators. Although it is technically illegal in the eyes of the FCC, but they were in a rural area, not using a repeater or intentionally trying to do any harm. I think ham operators just need to enjoy the hobby, and stay out of affairs that don't concern them. Going 1mph over the posted speed limit is just as illegal, but you don't hear anyone making a big fuss about the people who do it.
Nothing illegal happening in this video. We are licensed. We just don’t want out call signs on UA-cam. For obvious reasons.
@@AllTerrainFamily Ok gotcha. But I think you see my point, and from some of the comments here from people who assume you weren't licensed and pointing out every little thing that could possibly be illegal.
Definitely.
I think he's saying punching the ham repeater into the blue radio would have made a good comparison.
Happy Ham😊
where are all these "checkpoints"? what are the distances?
Yes thats what they never mentioned. What was the distance in those Checkpoints to you???
Watch part 2.
The CB has an Antenna on the out side mounted to vehicle so it is no surprised it was working little better. Rubber duckies aren't as good as 1/4 wave vehicle mounted antennas .You might want to do it again with a hand held CB or get a mobile mount ham antenna." Your test is highly flawed". Even using a rubber ducky on a mag or window mount isn't as good, you need a mobile ham antenna and the same transmit power to get a good and fair test.(low profile VHF antennas are as bad as rubber duckies) At a distance handheld antennas needs to be held in the same direction.If 1 is vertical and the other is horizontal the the polarization are off and signal quality will very. HF can go over and around a hill a little better because of the longer wave. It is always best to have more then 1 form of communication in the back country. Have at least 1 VHF and/or one UHF along with HF "CB or ham" The ones you need are the ones most people are using in the area.You can have all the radios in the world if no one is listening then they are useless especially in an emergency situation. There a few mobile 2m/70cm mobile rigs that are under $200.00. I think you might have at least a Tech license, I am not an expert but I have been you using CB as far back as the 70s and obtained my Ham ticket in 2002 I currently hold a Extra class Amateur license, Several decades ago I went through Basic EMT school as well as Open water and wilderness search and rescue courses. Those certifications are expired.
73
Jim KG4TRI
Radio channels need more videos like this! Well done! Hoping to see something with GMRS vs UHF Ham and CB vs 10m Ham one day on youtube. Distances would be cool, not necessarily analogous to other areas but still a cool little demonstration of real world distances. Also listing wattages of each would be cool to show that maybe wattage isn't as important as other aspects (like external antennas) to newbies.
Thanks!
GMRS is basically the same as UHF ham radio when using up to 50 watts FM. That includes repeaters for both services. Ten meter ham is also the same if you used the same power and mode. But hams often will use higher power than the 4 watts AM for CB and they often will use SSB. I is too bad that CB could not have been required to use SSB because it effectively doubles the channels to 80 and with the higher allowed power of 12 watts PEP on CB SSB, it can outperform "regular" AM CB. I regularly talk to another ham at around 30 miles on CB LSB but this is from home stations with modest antennas at around 30 feet off the ground. I don't think that would be possible with mobiles. The biggest downer with CB is that the 27 MHz frequency needs rather large (8 + foot) antennas to be reasonably efficient so most mobiles are a compromise and HTs are very impractical.
@rickwilliams5817 CB now has FM mode which can go to 25 watts. The drawback is that to get a new CB with full power on each mode is very expensive. Like north of $600.
Thank you for your time, the great edit job & meticulous test. It certainly helped me being a beginner trying to understand which one to install in my truck. Keep up the good work!
Man you have something in that truck of yours that is just puking RF noise. I’m impressed with the Midland radio in this test.
Great vid for a non-radio/rookie guy like me.. Looking to buy radios up here in Idaho.. Great to see the effects in and out of the car and the it was done in plain English...
Moral of the story, have an externally mounted antenna radio system. I've never heard of the rugged radio before but I think the main thing this video shows is that all radio systems are great for short range but to reach out you need an antenna that is up high above the plane of your vehicle to work at longer distances.
I just took my technician exam and one of the questions was on needing an external antenna because of the chassis and shell interference.
It's really fun and interesting watching you run these tests. I've been a ham for my entire life and with 50 years of experience, I will say you demonstrated exactly what I expected. You see the band that the radio transmits on has a lot to do with the propagation of the signals. The ham radio I think is set on 2M at 144 mhz, FRS is in the 460 mhz band and CB is in the UPPER HF at 27 mhz. This all matters. HF wins in ground wave, bends a little around objects and over hills, plus the antenna is out of the vehicle in relative free space. The FRS and ham HT are inside of a Faraday Cage - that being your car which will trap the signals to some degree. And finally a 460 mhz you were experiencing shadowing - where moving the radio as little as 3 inches will put the receiving antenna in a null vs 3 inches another way where you get a strong signal. I was guessing at the start that the CB might do best, followed by the Ham if it has sight of the antenna tower.
You may have not noticed, but most of the bad reception situations, you had the antenna in position other than vertical. Omni-directional antennas radiate in a doughnut shape, so if the transmitting antenna is under a different angle than a receiving one, the signal is reduced.
As for the ham radio, you should have used a magnet antenna on a car.It is not expensive, and requires no permanent installation. The huge amount of metal in the car acts as a "electromagnetic ground" so unless the whole antenna is above the roof, you are effectively transmitting from the basement.
While this is an older video the antenna issue you mentioned is the first thing I noticed as well regarding the reception issues. I would also try testing with a magnetic mount antenna for dealing with such distances.
I put a BNC adapter on my HAM handle talkie. Allows me to quickly swap the antenna to a cable connected to an external antenna when I'm in the truck. Best of both worlds.
The stress testing on these units was an exceptional side by side comparison. The terrain being a tough environment. Amazing the difference when the vehicle component was removed and introduced. Good data results. Great job to all.
Those "Rugged Trail" radios are nothing more than rebranded Baofengs at 4x the price. They are also 100 percent illegal to use without a license. Want to use license-free vhf? Get the Btech MURS radios. They use the same frequency range, but are actually legal to use. Plus they're much less expensive.
@See Jay 1. That doesn't mean what you obviously think it means. 2. "404 not found." Invalid link. 3. I have the frequency lists of their radios. Some of the frequencies are license-free MURS and FRS frequencies. As for the others, if you read this blog from RR themselves you will see where the question is asked point-blank and they answer that YOU must obtain a license from the FCC for a "nominal fee" ($300 btw): www.ruggedradios.com/blog/vhf-and-uhf-explained/
The licenses they hold are only good for specific events at specific times and places, where they are actually onsite during the event and give you permission to use their license, for that event only. Anything beyond that is illegal. That's why they were so vague and misleading about it, and reference a page that doesn't exist.
@@Possumliving theyre a shady underhanded company.
@@jeepinbanditrider Yes they are, Josh.
@See Jay Those Rugged Radios are sold primarily programmed with racing frequencies. Any of those frequencies require an individual license. Any Murs frequencies do not. Any FRS frequencies on those radios are probably not type accepted (part 95). Any GMRS frequencies in those radio are also probably not type accepted (part 95). Any other frequencies are probably Amateur license required (part 97).
Since they can’t, by virtue of their construction, be FCC type-certified, there’s no way to get a license that would make these legal to use.
Try the same test with external antennas mounted on top of your vehicles. When your inside a vehicle, your essentially inside a mobile (Faraday cage). 2m and 70cm bands are pretty much (not always) line of sight propagation so anything in between the radios will cause some interference.
The ft60 is able to operate through a repeater and simplex and would also be able to communicate with the rugged radio and frs, if you connected the ft60 to an external antenna it would improve range and give better comparison to cb, ( ft60 is 4w and cub is probably 10w) if I were stuck I would rather take my chances getting help on the ft60,
The FT60R can only receive on FRS frequencies, it can't transmit.
@@roadie6153
25 minute mod changes that.
Mounting and tuning a HAM or GMRS antenna is just as easy, in most cases its actually easier since many times when you hook your meter up to it you wont even have to tune the GMRS or HAM antenna.
The antennas are far shorter than CB so a lot less to get hung up on.
As far as talking to a repeater vs simplex? Yes it is different. Repeaters typically have much higher quality antennas at an elevated postion and high quality radios as well. Its a lot easier for the repeater to deal with a weak signal than another mobile or handheld unit doing simplex.
As far as cost. Yes a cheap cb is a lot.cheaper. Theres now plenty of affordable HAM and GMRS options out there.
great real live test run! would have been really nice to know the milage/distance away from you at each or any of the check points..
Renoite here too...I have the same Yaesu handheld and I also have a Yaesu mobile radio. There is no comparison with simplex reach. However, you made a really important comment early on to the effect of...most of my friends don't have ham equipment or license. So, while ham with an external antenna would have won this challenge, if no one in your group has a radio or license, it doesn't matter!
When I lead my friends on rides out in northern or central NV, I just make sure we stay physically close and we all use FRS.
Curious if you ever have meetups? Love to join for a trip, Cheers, I enjoy your channel.
Thanks for the comment Jeff! Yes we do trail runs. I post them here and on out Facebook Group. Not the page, the group. Email me if you can’t find it.
The gentlemen in the grey shirt in the Rubicon, whoever's jeep that is, that is one sick build. i love how everything looks so in place on the dashboard. Props!
I would love to see the test with a vehicle mounted antenna. The HT connected to a vehicle mounted antenna with a quick connect to go back and forth between mobile and in vehicle and reap the benefits of a better transmit and receive
thank you to everyone for taking the time to do this.
Outside of what everyone else pointed out, a noise filter between the CB power source and radio could be used to filter out the alternator noise in Jr's car. Sr's car is okay. Might filter out that fan noise, be it ac blower or electric fan for cooling engine.
That's one of the great things about FM radio! It is inherently more robust in this regard!
A longer antenna with the FM CB would be awesome!
Wow! Do you hear here often?
Good ears! I guess... you could be ranting nonsense for what my poor aging ears are aware
@@pareidoliarocks I'm not quite sure how to answer this except, utilizing many different kinds of radio services in different mobile applications. Just experienced, I guess. No nonsense.
If I am not mistaken you are using a Yaesu ft-60. This radio is one of best Hamradio ever made. You need and exterior antenna. We use them at the rubicon trail flawlessly.
That's the one. I am going to get an antenna after doing this test.
All-Terrain Family I have a couple of nice Comet antennas I run externally on my JK with an HT if you want to check them out before buying - let me know and I can run down from Incline - Chris (I’m planning an eventual mobile rig but waiting on the AT-D578UV to be released)
All-Terrain Family I’m assuming no one on the video holds an amateur radio license, which is required if you want to use the amateur frequencies. I’d stick to something legal, although I’m sure very few people in the 4x4 community pays attention to that.
GMRS radios with EXTERNAL antennae would be the way to go.
You DO need a license; however, $80 license covers the entire family for 5 years. GMRS MOBILE radios allow 50 watts (instead of CB’s 4 watts), are repeater capable, and would probably give better performance with variable rocky terrain.
Why would you assume that?
@@AllTerrainFamily Because no one ever used their callsign in the video.
Rugged is nothing more than a vastly overpriced rebranded Baofeng... SMH
Same frequency too
@Situational Ready of course. And we've all made that mistake at some point down the line. When we come across the product we think is pretty good, only to find out later it was a more expensive knock off. We feel duped and stupid. LOL
Rugged radios are race radios for use under special permits at events. They have pre set channels that can’t be changed. So they’re not exactly just a knockoff. But they’re also not exactly a consumer product either.
@@AllTerrainFamily do you not realize that baofeng radios do the exact same thing? LOL yes these are in fact a knockoff. They're nearly identical to baofeng. Only a fool would buy this brand when baofeng is much cheaper.
They don’t. You can program a baofeng. Can’t program a rugged radio.
You can add a Mobile Ham VHZ/UHF 50 watt unit that has an external antenna just like the CB abd it should easily outperform all of them. It is less expensive than the HT. The externa antenna will use the roof of the vehicle as a large ground plane. Good report!
As you mentioned they are using mounted CBs which means external antenna vs a handheld CB. That a big part of why the CB is working so much clearer. When running a CB there were times I could actually reach people 100's of miles away. Rare, but if sitting on a peak above the city line I could get great range.
Excellent test of the radios thanks for the effort put into this it was much appreciated and I enjoyed it immensely.
Great experience for a weekend with the family. Your parents are so much kind. Nice video, thanks. A 73 from Brazil.
Cb has the longest wave so I would think it should perform better and being mounted vertically and a more stable swr grounding. Edited still watching... awesome video guys
Ham handheld with a Mobil antenna would do better than the rubber duck. Also a regular Ham 2 meter/dual band Mobil Rug at 35-50 watts would really do great. Same form factor as a compact CB Mobil mount, probably close in price too. Also, 6 meter Ham (54mhz) is supposed to do better in hilly terrain vs. 2meter, 440, vhf, uhf. Do like a nice CB too!
Really appreciate this video. We are told get a ham radio. Getting a license is easy. But as one who is not into ham radio, antennas, & programming the bloody devices. It all seems so daunting. Not to mention, getting a ham is only useful if you assume all overlanders are licensed. This is a tough sell to the average 4x4 weekender.
agree.....
I have GRMS and Ham, but if I had to pick just one I'd go with a mobile GRMS radio for the Jeep and a HT(hand talkie aka walkie talkie) for outside the vehicle. Rugged Radios has some pretty good deals.
@@MichaelCook1981 thanks
Mountain terrain can be rough , but you should also consider what's IN the mountain. I have a mountain in the way of a repeater which should here me even with the rough terrain but... the mountain happens to be the site of an old iron ore mine and my signal simply doesn't escape the valley. The repeater is within 10 miles and hears the next valley over fine. Just something to think about.
You an exterior antenna for the Hamradio
I really like 27 MHz CB radios. They are convenient, easy to install and do not require a license. They do their job very well with a good quality antenna properly installed on the car. Many miles of range are possible. There are beautiful CB radios from various well-known brands of excellent quality for little money. On CB you have 40 channels to choose from in AM, FM or SSB modulation. CB radio is so easy to use, for everyone. No hassle with HAM permits needed, just grab the mike and speak to your friends in the group. I love it !
We’ve used handheld HAM for spotters and reserve mounted HAM with external antennas for inside the vehicle for best results. The handheld % of success inside a vehicle without an external was too low to rely on. As mentioned, CB is easiest as no license but I like having HAM for reaching people not in the group in case of emergencies.
How far were these checkpoints?
Thanks for this video!
Cool video. We use CB radios in trucks. There's places we might be on a narrow road for miles and we can't pass each other so we use CB radios that out 100 watt's or more we can talk for 20 miles and more. So with that being said it's just a matter of what you prefer and how much you are willing to invest in whatever you choose to use. Great video though I enjoyed it
A CB with a good antenna will outperform a 25w handheld (especially inside of a vehicle). 90% of your radio performance is the antenna.
My hams were horrible till I found out that the frequencie being used makes a huge difference. Now they work over 10x the distance from before.
I think it was on 400 mhz band, 144 MHz is for Mountains. 🏔️
That's all pretty good to be a hand held. I personally like to have a good set up inside and hand held. There is some good Ham/Cb radios out there. You could get it peaked and tune with a good Antenna and it do wonders. I know it be a little bulking inside but it's worth it.
Thanks for the time you spent trying to find the best solution to this problem, that being said you were comparing apples to oranges. It was quite obvious you were using three handhelds and a mobile CB with an external antenna. You were also using the Ham Radio in simplex mode and not using the Repeater. The reason you are having so much trouble inside the vehicle is that the vehicle is acting as a faraday cage and blocking most of the RF. It's all about power and gain of the external antenna. I think for most overlanders , the mobile CB with an external antenna is going to be the best bet . However, I would take a 50watt VHF HAM mobile with a 5/8 wave external with the ability to work simplex or through a Repeater over any radio you tested. Thanks, Heath N4TWT
Man...a guy could probably pass the Technion Class exam by the end of reading these comments. Thanks for all you Hams for kicking in here.
That said; I do think its better to view the test as "how each is routinely set up and used in an everyday sort of way". I'd like to see a round 2 with different variables variabled....and revariabled! ...several ways...or something
A mobile Ham rig would be (in my opinion) the best choice by far. Especially paired with a handheld while set up for x-band repeat
Yeah, great signal, nobody to talk to.
All-Terrain Family good point. Although it’s pretty easy to get a ham license for UHF/ VHF.
@@NoneYaBidness762 Yep, but not as easy as it is to install a CB.
I just got the midland . we just use it to talk when we dont have cell service and we are fallowing each other . a ham would be good to call for help if you think about going way out.
When using an HT inside a vehicle, you are basically putting it inside a faraday cage, which prevents signals from getting in or out. This is why most vehicle mounted radios use exterior antennas, along with having better range/ reception. Otherwise, this is a cool video. Keep up the good work.
Very interesting the video thanks to you and the others for the dedication and the review
Really looking forward to the distances and terrain for the checkpoints. Your video is one of the better comparisons I have seen between different competing communications services. And showing the real time comparisons with the video inserts between stations was very professionally done.
- Could you detail the frequencies and power levels of each of the radios?
- A GMRS 5 watt handheld would be nice to compare with the FRS.
- I sure would like to see a comparison with MURS which is licensed by rule (like CB and FRS) and allows up to 2 watts output on VHF with detachable gain antennas and would be similar to a 2 meter radio.
- Is the FRS transceiver a 500 milliwatt (.5 watt) HT or one of the newer ones that now allows up to 2 watts ERP on all channels except the 467 MHz interstitials (Channels 8 through 14) which remain at .5 watts?
Using an HT inside a vehicle (Faraday shielded cage), or as you noted, even near the vehicle, causes tremendous loss of signal. Using any outside antenna, even a somewhat inefficient shortened CB antenna (for CB) can work fairly well. I also notice that there are not that many users of SSB on CB. The SSB capable radios have really come down in price (such as the Uniden 980SSB for just over $100) and can significantly extend range because they operate with 12 watts PEP output and reduce receive interference (narrower bandwidth) over AM CB which only allows 4 watts output.
So, looking into it some more, I think the Midland was tuned to channel 27 and thats a GMRS channel. I need to figure out if it was also set to high power, which would make it NOT FRS. So confusing. It's almost like radio makers don't want you to know what you're doing.
Great video... Respectfully The Rugged Radio is a Ham radio. It's a rebadged Baofeng UV5R that comes programmed. You can buy exterior antennas for the Baofeng/Ham/Rugged radios and put the antenna on the roof which will give you better reception. Inside of the car causes RF feedback
Love all radios. FRS, GMRS, Ham, and CB. The advantage to Ham radio is you can run much more power. When condition are bad you may run 1500 watts and not really go anywhere. When one band is dead you can always go to a different frequency or band and usually find one that's working. That is not the meaning of the video. If I had to pick one during a complete blackout in a car (hate to say it being a ham)probably would be a CB. Only because more people have them in there car or truck .It would have to be a long black out with repeaters down. Worst case scenario type thing.
Who travels with a CB in their car these days? Everyone I know uses cell phones.
Thanks for the video, as a new HAM it was a bit eye opening with the real world aspect of the HT's. Reading the comments were not a surprise, but you were doing a 'real world' test with how people who haven't been researching or playing in this field for years would try and use the radios and that is valuable! I got my tech license because I thought this would be the way to go for 4x4 comms in the future, but actually am now thinking the GMRS route with vehicle mounted radios and antennas, and handhelds for outside use, are the way of the future. I think Jeep Jamboree will be moving this direction since this year they aren't requiring CB anymore (like they have for many years up till last year), they recommend it but are 'evaluating' future radio requirements. Too bad the government is so damn greedy and are charging $70 for a license where no test is involved! I just paid $10 for a test and license for HAM.
The reason for the license is the limited spectrum. With an analog format unrestricted users would make it to crowded to use.
Understood, but the way the radios are being sold/marketed, people will not be getting their license and it will be the same crowding as CB.
@@GregKitsinian Certainly. And in the case of many GMRS radios they might not even be aware of the licensing requirement.
Licensed HAM operators: Heavy angry breathing.
Sometimes I listen to it to fall asleep #ASMR.
@@AllTerrainFamily not a cool comment. You might not agree with the FCC but you shouldn't prompt breaking the laws. Maybe if you don't agree with it then should to try to get it changed.
There are no such suggestions in this thread. I am happy with the current regulations.
ghorman So, my comment wasn’t to insinuate he was doing something illegal, which is possible (and I could not care less), but to insinuate that HAM operators were upset by the validity - or lack there of - of the test. Obviously in a proper setup a good HAM with an antenna just like the CB will outperform the CB. Also, depending on 2m vs 70cm the results would vary greatly with the handhelds. Way to many variables making this test nothing more than a direct observation of what you could expect using those exact devices, on those setting, on that hill.
To HAM operators everywhere, you have got to stop taking yourselves so seriously. You will continue to alienate anyone who has even a chance to get interested in the hobby.
@@JimYeats hams running people off never lol. Might be the reason I spent a crap load of money for a nice yaesu and it's now collecting dust and haven't been on the air in years. I honestly don't know if I'll even renew my license at this point.
I have radio that operates on the MURS frequency, using a Larson mag mounts on trucks with a 5/8 wave antenna can give you extended range . 152 MHz. Thx
I'm ex-law enforcement and fireman. After paying close attention to the participants inside the vehicles, I will conclude that most of the radios work the same except that some of the participants point the radios down or away from the direction the receiving radio is. Even your body can block the signal if you just turn a bit while speaking. Great information anyways. Thanks
Agreed. Most of the issues come from using handheld radios inside vehicles (faraday cage), or holding the radios horizontal which will kill your reception.
When using radios inside of a vehicle you should have an external antenna. And your radio (and antenna) should always be pointed vertically.
Oregon forests absorb signal. Neat thing about CB is its long wave propagation and potential over the horizon copy
This was good. When the water level is low we like to camp out in leviathan hot springs. We dont always go all together and some times cell service doesn't work that well down there. Do you think if I was in gardnerville a C.B. signal would reach? We are always looking for some kind of communication when head down there
I wouldn’t think it would reach, no.
The distance between coms is just one factor to the quality of transmission and reception. Basically terrain is another factor for consideration. Most GMRS, and FRS are line of sight radio bands which means as long as the is no obstruction between coms and the area does not have hills or maintains in between, the transmission will be clear. Hight is another factor to consider. As a rule of thumb "hight is might". The higher you and you com is the better your transmission and reception will be. A vantage point of being on top of a hill will definitely improve your com.
For those getting into radios find the newer 2watt FRS radios. The old blister pack frs/gmrs radios were limited to .5watt on FRS and 5watts for GMRS. This was part of the latest FCC change in the guidelines for FRS and GMRS. They were split apart and FRS got the power upgrade.
Yes. The midland we used is the new version. It’s still really hard to figure out what you’re allowed to use without a license. It’s understandable that a lot of people are using the, improperly.
Was the rugged radio the GMRS he was testing? But yeah on the FRS, I used to have a bunch of them they were bad, like a mile at best if that much. I also live in an area with hills, houses, cars and trees around but want to talk to my friends who live a few miles to 5 miles away. Any recommendations?
Helpful info. Thanks.
Did you find your perfect radio yet?
thanks for this thorough run down on the various handhelds
As far as the cb, if you would put a traditional dash mounted unit in the jeep and add a 108" whip, you would have no problems with the cb at all. As for the ham radio also antenna mounted on vehicle with external mic.
Thank you for your but frankly AM radio just doesn't make it.
Here in the west coast environment with mountains VHF is the only way to go
Something in your truck is desensitizing your 2M receiver. Dashcams are notorious for causing this, but the interference could be just about anything. I typically see the UHF bands are not affected, exactly as you are observing.
I’ve read that the truck is a faraday cage.
I have Midland two-way radios 36 miles how far are you communicating from your checkpoints can you do another video like in the city limits
I have the same GXT 1000 series ...I’m not getting 36m out of them on the East Coast. The only way you can get that is out west on a mountain.
Thank you for this video, really helped to make a decision on which radios are right for my needs
A 1/4wave or 5/8 wave mag mount on the ham would have been amazing, and did you even check SWR on the CB ?
Thank you for putting this together, great production value! Very helpful!
Probably would have had better luck on the Yaesu on a 70cm simplex frequency instead of 2m simplex frequency. Think it would have worked better from within the vehicle. An external mobile antenna (1/4 wave or 5/8 wave) on 2m would help hugely. A 2 meter-only mobile radio wouldn't cost anywhere near $400; more like $140.
-73 W5ESE
As a kid in the 1970's CB's were massively popular in most 4x4 trucks and other vehicles of the day riding high on the great CB radio craze sweeping the nation , that is until the skip phenomenon (super long distant signal propagation) became a regular occurrence and by decades end many were turned off to CB. By the time me and my friends were driving in the woods in the 80's and 90's we had no radio communications of any kind or could care less for such a thing. Given where I live (western Canada) I think its still a question where all can be aware or agree on a particular radio band or format model be it CB, GMRS, VHF/HAM ect or even wanting a 2 way radio at all. . I think its all still up in the air at the moment.
It would be great if you could add GMRS radios to the comparison. I have a Midlands 40 Watt GMRS, and It would be cool to see how it compares to the others.
It would, however, I think it’s predictable: it’ll be way better than any hand held, and practically identical to ham.
Not the case. The hams are programmatically blocked from using the GMRS frequencies even though in paper they are in range. Some of them you can hack to access gmrs and frs though.
Hey, really appreciate you all for showing your results.. very cool, thank you 😊
Considering many people will use them the way you tested this was a good test, I am sure some people will have 50 other things you should have done, etc. But most people buy the hand held radio and use it as a hand held radio. Once you start talking the extra price and installation costs then people just do not buy it. You could probably filter out the fan interference I am guessing is what some of it was. I received my license many moons ago and have forgotten most of what i learned. I understand why you no longer can get a lifetime license I would need to study up to pass the test again since I never do anything to keep it fresh in my mind. Good real world test, yes you could have done a bunch of other things but people do not buy antennas for cheap radios and mount them on a vehicle. Be Safe!
The best way to go about it is to set it up as similar as possible - similar antenna's, similar radio (mobile rig - CB is mounted vs. handheld FRS / "rugged" / HAM). HAM antenna's are an important part of a HAM rig.
Imagine paying $85 for a $26 Baofeng. 😬
For me the GMRS with a magnet mount roof antenna is great. Bingfu with ground plane radials, 16foot coax with SMA F adapter, to be very specific. SWR is great right at GMRS freqs. GREAT real-world, rapid-fire test, btw. 👍
Thanks
Almost forgot when using ham radio and the rugged radios is to get out the vehicles.
Thank you for such an informative video. Planning a trip cross country next year. Although, just started in the communication Industry, trying to acquire the necessary information needed to make that educated decision as to what direction in radio communication would be best for I and my family. Thinking the CB interior mount in my jeep as well as a ham interior mount 7900. Allow me to define Cross country:......would be the travel from SC....to .......Arizona....Calif.... yellowstone, Utah....teton....Rapid City and on and on...because of your knowledge and experience in the radio communiction industry.....I'd most definitely appreciate any input you can provide. Emergencies do happen...just want to be prepared.....Respectfully. Ron.
I didn’t read thru all 700 comments, but it would be interesting to know if you were using the ham radio in the vhf or uhf band. The vhf goes farther thru unobstructed terrain, while uhf goes thru obstructions more easily.
That was my first thought, 2m or 70cm
One answer each year. He said it was 146.400 and something Mhz. 2m,
This was a great idea. Turned out very informative for us beginners . Thanks
Thanks for the Video! Were you using a GMRS freq on the Rugged Radios??? I would be willing to bet if you used external antenna's on 2 meters and GMRS the results would be a lot different.
Wow, what a good test. The cell phone call was funny
Up in the mount hood forest no cell coverage I was stuck for five days I had supplies, but no one drive by for days. I hada scanner hearing repeaters on 2meters perfect but could not talk. With a come along and some logging cable got out in two days
I will stick with my Amateur Radio's, but may buy a decent Chicken Band unit for backup. (Ham since 1992) And Reno Resident since 1993.
I am not surprised the AM CB 27Mhz worked better than handhelds, those "rugged radios" looked suspiciously like a rebadged Baofeng UV5R (entry spec ham radio).
Given the plethora of aftermarket gear for the Baofengs a handheld could be configured with an external microphone and antenna 👍
"those "rugged radios" looked suspiciously like a rebadged Baofeng UV5R"
They are and at very high prices when compared to the UV5R!
"(entry spec ham radio)"
The UV5R's are Part 90 certified business band HT's and are only usable on ham frequencies, when modified, by a licensed ham. Not legal for MURS VHF-FM, no license required,\; FRS UHF-FM, no license required or GMRS UHF-FM, license required (not type accepted, those are Part 95 radio services like CB).
5:20 Not shocking. He's using the stock antenna INSIDE the car.
tey were both initally inside the vehicles. . Hand helds inside metal boxes dont work well
Output power and also antenna situation need to be considered. CB result was good as its antenna is always mounted outside with better conditions than others.
Gotta love the tried and true functionality of CB radios
Gets the job done!
Think about the wavelengths versus the size of the windows. The FRS wavelength is about 65cm whereas the ham radio was 2m. The vehicle was probably more of a faraday cage to the 2m signal. If I was serious about using ham radio for this application I'd be using 50w mobile rigs with roof antennas. Or, instead of FRS I'd be using 40 watt GMRS with roof antennas. --de N3TPS/WRAT786
An effective Faraday cage can have holes upwards of λ/10. A window is probably λ/3 'ish, which is going to be a pretty large obstruction!
@@wesleybuff2536 The point is that the will be more attenuation at 2 m than at 65 cm.
@@timothystockman7533 Thankyou. I obviously did not realize, seeming as I gave you the fundamental reason why... but okay 😂
I am still surprised by the results. I don't look at my HT the same anymore haha.
Check pt. 3 out the window antenna was horizontal while base radio was vertical. Polarization.....
This is super cool !!! HAM and FCC can kiss my Midland , lol.......I appreciate this a ton. I just need to know if im winching a Chevy from the front or the back typically ..Or if the dude 3 trucks in front just went under water. Midland will do that
Good video. I run cb & gmrs in my truck.
CB all the way. If you get the right antenna and set it up correctly, you can have a powerful setup - especially with SSB. Most of this stuff is all circumstantial, it's whatever works best on YOUR own rig.
Antennas work omnidirectional. They receive and broadcast best when all the antennas on the channel are vertically polarized(everyone holding them at the exact same angle, straight up and down) Also vhf and uhf radios and their range rely greatly on length of the antennas being relative to frequency in Mhz, not all brands and models are created equal.
That radio cost $154 at Hamradio outlet plus $30 for an antenna.