The Forgotten Axis Puppet: Vichy France | Animated History

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  • Опубліковано 21 лис 2024

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  • @TheArmchairHistorian
    @TheArmchairHistorian  2 роки тому +607

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    • @landonbohinc8146
      @landonbohinc8146 2 роки тому +7

      Plzzzz do da Russian civil war

    • @LM-pt1rr
      @LM-pt1rr 2 роки тому +4

      Can you do a Video about the Italian occupation of albania

    • @LeoMes01
      @LeoMes01 2 роки тому +2

      Do Iran and Iraq during ww2

    • @nokhtarthiam809
      @nokhtarthiam809 2 роки тому +1

      Hello,Cool video.

    • @itsblitz4437
      @itsblitz4437 2 роки тому +1

      I hope you do a video on the Yugoslav Wars.

  • @polargray1
    @polargray1 2 роки тому +4429

    Fun fact: Soldiers from Vichy France (and Occupied France) that fought on the eastern front called the 33rd Waffen Grenadier of the SS Charlemagne Division (Composed of members from the Milice, LVF, and Volunteer Sturmbrigade France) were one of the last divisions to defend to Berlin and were among the last Axis Forces to surrender

    • @yourmajestyy9674
      @yourmajestyy9674 2 роки тому +375

      Based

    • @joshepstalin5399
      @joshepstalin5399 2 роки тому +42

      I know, go watch explain of downfall (film)

    • @fleurdeurope6858
      @fleurdeurope6858 2 роки тому +123

      The story of the French volunteers and their feats of arms are fascinating.
      I publish lyrics videos of the song and marches of those units (LVF, Brigade Frankreich, Div. Charlemagne) I could find on my channel with English translation.
      Eventually I would like to record my own version of the missing ones.

    • @TheBlackfall234
      @TheBlackfall234 2 роки тому +98

      that also goes for Spanish Waffen SS Volunteer Division.

    • @rudynathan8852
      @rudynathan8852 2 роки тому +47

      Wow. Cool and smart! NOT

  • @schizoidboy
    @schizoidboy 2 роки тому +3626

    Keep in mind the French Resistance was not entirely unified itself. They were made up of various groups, ranging from Communist with ex-fighters from Spain, pro-monarchist, pro-de Gaulle, deserters from the Vichy military, and escaped forced laborers - to name a few. One of the reasons for the Free French wanting to take Paris was to keep these guerrilla forces from taking over especially the Communists.

    • @Th3Shyguy
      @Th3Shyguy 2 роки тому +133

      Overall a motly crews of mostly untrained youths that had little to no ammo and great ambitions. The FTP was probably the most prominent of french resistant in comparison to armée secrète. SOE played a large role in somewhat organizing, however much possible. Needless to say the french resistance wasn't trusted much by the allies, but played a bigger role than most people realize keeping the 2nd SS Panzer Division: Das Reich cooped up in the areas they rose up in due to the unyeilding policy of keeping every inch of territory gained.

    • @delta2372
      @delta2372 2 роки тому +86

      The french resistance was honestly pretty useless.

    • @johnwotek3816
      @johnwotek3816 2 роки тому +69

      French resistance started to unify itself under De Gaulles impulsion, by the work of Jean Moulin. They created the french resistance council, which basically layed the foundation of the provisory governement.

    • @rockmycd1319
      @rockmycd1319 2 роки тому +189

      @@delta2372 They weren't. They collaborated with the Western Allies and committed to sabotage attacks just prior to D-Day. They certainly did more then the "lol let's delay this crucial counter-attack because of a superficial report of fleeing french soldiers even though we didn't believe the numerous reports of Panzer columns advancing through the Ardennes" aka the French Army.

    • @delta2372
      @delta2372 2 роки тому +17

      @@rockmycd1319 last I checked, those "sabatoge" efforts were mostly due to british commandos, without the british commandos helping the french "resistance" or as they should be called the french communist's since those were the only ones "resisting" and even then it wasn't until the soviet was invaded did they even start doing that because the french commies were more interested in shooting each other than the germans.
      The french resistance was a joke and de gaulle was an opportunist crybaby who thought he should have a say in anything when the free french army was as useless as the communist resistance.

  • @c.lynnmiller5677
    @c.lynnmiller5677 Рік тому +555

    You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.
    Marshal Pétain is the living embodiment of this quote.

    • @Copy-x2k
      @Copy-x2k Рік тому +6

      Yes he is..

    • @skinfan2806
      @skinfan2806 Рік тому +1

      Well said

    • @TheResilient5689
      @TheResilient5689 10 місяців тому +20

      Petain got off far too easy. He should’ve been imprisoned in solitary confinement for the rest of his life, with no hope of clemency or early release whatsoever.

    • @spidmadjarski4234
      @spidmadjarski4234 10 місяців тому +16

      ​@@TheResilient5689tell me you're brainwashed, without telling me you're brainwashed, Long live Petain, Long live France

    • @TheResilient5689
      @TheResilient5689 10 місяців тому

      @@spidmadjarski4234 Petain was a traitor complicit in the deaths and suffering of thousands or even millions of his own people, among other things.

  • @sven_the_giant
    @sven_the_giant 2 роки тому +3330

    My grandmother was born in Alsace and raised outside of Paris. She endured the full might of German occupation during WW2. She almost lost her life when a group of Waffen SS stormed into a city square she was at with a half-track and dismounted infantry shooting everyone in sight. Reprisals for the killing of SS officers earlier. She was saved when a stranger told her to hide in a ditch. She never saw that stranger again.
    Before she passed, I was able to interview her about her experiences during the war and wrote a paper on it in college. She was the number one reason why I got my degree in history. I miss her greatly.

    • @darger3
      @darger3 2 роки тому +86

      Incredible.

    • @Geodendronitrian
      @Geodendronitrian 2 роки тому +102

      Your Grandma is a brave woman, may she rest in peace.

    • @AceCmbatguy25
      @AceCmbatguy25 2 роки тому +44

      Thank you for sharing, wow

    • @TEverettReynolds
      @TEverettReynolds 2 роки тому +73

      > wrote a paper on it in college
      Now you must go a step further, to document her story, for all the future generations of her family (track them all down). Paper is nice, but does not last the test of time. Create something that will outlast you, and tell her story for all to learn from. In our families today, our youth does not understand true sacrifice, or what opportunity really means. They have a sad sense of entitlement (due to being raised with so much security and material things). Her story can enlighten them, and their future generations. These are the lessens that our schools fail to teach our children today.

    • @khankrum1
      @khankrum1 2 роки тому +8

      I wonder if she would have supported the EU?

  • @BHuang92
    @BHuang92 2 роки тому +2411

    To elaborate on Darlan's assassination, he was not missed by the Allies as even he switched allegiance, the Allies did not trust him. It was no coincidence that many speculated that the Allies staged the assassination as a means of convenience.

    • @saltmerchant749
      @saltmerchant749 2 роки тому +176

      Darlan was only ever on one side, to which he remained loyal for the duration of the conflict, and that was the side of Darlan himself. If he had to play both sides, so be it.

    • @BHuang92
      @BHuang92 2 роки тому +68

      @@saltmerchant749 Harold Macmillan described Darlan as, " Once he was bought, he stayed bought".

    • @yeetjones927
      @yeetjones927 2 роки тому +43

      Darlan was a coward no matter how good an admiral he was a snake that would sell his own family to the gestapo if he lived an extra hour

    • @Kamfrenchie
      @Kamfrenchie 2 роки тому +37

      the allies suspected De Gaulle of doing it, but afaik it was orchestrated by a group of anti vichist. They drew straws to decide who would kill him, and the killer in the end, was a royalist iirc

    • @bishop6218
      @bishop6218 2 роки тому +46

      @@Kamfrenchie In his memoirs, De Gaulle basically wrote "Wasn't me !". He sure had no reason to be implicated *wink wink*
      That being said, the assassin was secretly "tried" and executed by Giraud's orders the very next day, so maybe he told the truth, who knows.
      Fact is not a lot of people missed Darlan more than 3.5 seconds imho... 😉

  • @camillemorelli5422
    @camillemorelli5422 2 роки тому +4000

    I’m French and the pain is still here about this dark past. Personaly my great grandfather was in the French Army and worked in a farm in Germany after he was captured. My other great grandfather was in the resistance at the age of 15 with his sister who was 17. They were captured and released by the Gestapo or the Milice because there were no proofs about their engagement in the Resistance. (So I was just writing our felt and the story of my family about this event and lot of assholes flow their French hate on the comments, stop being stupid).

    • @joshuafrimpong244
      @joshuafrimpong244 2 роки тому +60

      Lucky

    • @Cruxial_
      @Cruxial_ 2 роки тому +150

      Understood that the French have horrors, though living in Hamburg, and having a grandfather who fought on the western front and ended up losing his leg, the way how the French treated German POW was worse than how Germans treated polish people, the French gave only half as much of rations that the Germans gave the polish, so I can say that as I feel bad for the French they definitely treated us worse.

    • @Cruxial_
      @Cruxial_ 2 роки тому +51

      I’m not putting down the pain of your grandfather, I’m just explaining the way of living for all of us.

    • @claradavidson1837
      @claradavidson1837 2 роки тому +2

      @@joshuafrimpong244 very 💯👍

    • @perhaps579
      @perhaps579 2 роки тому +195

      @@Cruxial_ didn’t really treat Russians too well though did you, neither the Jews or anyone else you didn’t like

  • @johnniescott284
    @johnniescott284 2 роки тому +2879

    "Marshal Pétain was a great man. He died in 1925, but he did not know it"
    - Charles De Gaulle

    • @fransengherre7098
      @fransengherre7098 2 роки тому +88

      All my respects to this great man.

    • @snowhuskybaalkaii8621
      @snowhuskybaalkaii8621 2 роки тому

      De Gaulle was only trying to protect the integrity of France and enroll the followers of Petain by not throwing that traitor to the wolves . In this world Justice is never bestow on the ruling class .

    • @fransengherre7098
      @fransengherre7098 2 роки тому

      @@snowhuskybaalkaii8621 You are a leftist, globalist, revisionist, obscurantist and an enemy of the truth. In conclusion, you are the empire of lies, an enemy of humanity.
      You cherish the causes of which you deplore the effects. You hold phantasmagorical speeches, meaningless and opposed to your actions. You are mentally deranged.
      You will lose, without even needing an enemy. Because in nature everything that is not fit for life dies. You have already started to rot, it is visible to all.
      We cannot lose, because the truth does not cease to be because it is denied. We have the strength of the world, we have already won. We will always win.

    • @Upliftmofo89
      @Upliftmofo89 2 роки тому +124

      Said by the man who ran away and didn't have to pick up the pieces

    • @peterhaslund
      @peterhaslund 2 роки тому

      Petain was a butcher of soldiers, then of civilians. End of

  • @oldschool1993
    @oldschool1993 2 роки тому +581

    When I lived in Paris, I met a French veteran of the war. He had only 1 arm, having lost the other in action in 1940. The Germans had released him because they felt he was no further threat. He promptly escaped France and joined the British in India where he served in some desk duty for most of the war, before returning after the liberation of Paris. He had 2 sons, and tragically both were killed during the Algerian war. I also knew a French lady who told an interesting story. Her husband had been captured in 1940 and she was not sure if he survived ( they were Jews). When the war ended , the French government and the church offered a dispensation of divorce for people who had missing spouses so that they could go on with their lives. This lady re-married after the war and sometime in the late 1940's she was in a restaurant with her new husband and ran into her 1st husband who had been in a forced labor camp in Eastern Europe and was then sent to another labor camp by the Russians- he spent nearly 10 years as a prisoner.

    • @thereisnosanctuary6184
      @thereisnosanctuary6184 Рік тому +41

      Awkward!

    • @siyacer
      @siyacer Рік тому +7

      Uh oh

    • @SuperCatacata
      @SuperCatacata Рік тому +96

      @@thereisnosanctuary6184 I cannot imagine being the 1st husband in that situation. Probably the only thing that kept him going was the thought of seeing her again. Smh

    • @doublesnapdowntownjackson6634
      @doublesnapdowntownjackson6634 Рік тому +30

      She's for the streets

    • @tomz5704
      @tomz5704 Рік тому +3

      So how did that end, with her being remarried and all that?

  • @RandyMCPEmaster
    @RandyMCPEmaster 2 роки тому +3269

    Petain is an example of "You Either Die A Hero, Or You Live Long Enough To See Yourself Become The Villain"

    • @scottwillie6389
      @scottwillie6389 2 роки тому +75

      History has vindicated him to large degree. All the great men of that period were smeared by the Communists who took over after the war.

    • @quandaledingle7812
      @quandaledingle7812 2 роки тому +93

      Scott Willie if your willing to bend over for your enemies you don't deserve a nationality he's not french

    • @vksasdgaming9472
      @vksasdgaming9472 2 роки тому +81

      @@quandaledingle7812 In his situation it was either bending or being bent over violently. Not much choice about practical result.

    • @ZEtruckipu
      @ZEtruckipu 2 роки тому +92

      Oh.... So now De Gaulle was. Communist?

    • @taan1424
      @taan1424 2 роки тому +119

      @@scottwillie6389 being a senile fascist puppet and an instrument of genocide is hardly being vindicated

  • @markfeltonsson3093
    @markfeltonsson3093 2 роки тому +870

    These animations are just so well done! Keep up the amazing work!

    • @charlie8344
      @charlie8344 2 роки тому +10

      @Eva Braun’s New Jewish Husband it's you again

    • @mautun3830
      @mautun3830 2 роки тому

      @Renzo Alarcón Eva Braun's New Jewish Husband

  • @michaelsinger4638
    @michaelsinger4638 2 роки тому +2366

    Marshal Petain really feels almost Shakespearean in how tragic his story was.

    • @mrnobody5669
      @mrnobody5669 2 роки тому +138

      @Steve Walker How?

    • @harryblaney8571
      @harryblaney8571 2 роки тому +181

      @Steve Walker Says the man who’s profile picture is that of a man behind an American flag.

    • @BHuang92
      @BHuang92 2 роки тому +249

      He lived long to see himself become a villian.

    • @charlie8344
      @charlie8344 2 роки тому +32

      @Steve Walker which side are you on then?

    • @eugeneoliveros5814
      @eugeneoliveros5814 2 роки тому +130

      @Steve Walker you’ve got the wrong flag in your pfp then

  • @claudemontezin911
    @claudemontezin911 2 роки тому +29

    Merci, thank you for this. To complement your great expose, I would like to share with you the true story of a resistance fighter. My father was a young corporal, trained as a machinist and mechanic, when France briefly fought and surrendered to Nazi. I was a passionate of war toys and when I grew up and asked him so many questions about the war, but he rarely said anything. Eventually, facing my stubbornness he provided some answers. My dad and my uncle (also named Claude) were career soldiers. They did not shy from occasional fist fights against bullies growing up. My dad led a small team of rag tags resistance, using stolen or captured guns (my dad's favorite were Berettas - he said they never jammed). They blew up railroads - Nazi's were the only ones using them - and one time he laid his charges and ran to cover, while a bullet almost grazed his skull. Many times I've asked him "how many Nazi did you kill dad?" while playing with GI Joes. One day, he looked away, and said "I don't know. But if I were to be paid a nickel for every bullet I fired directly at the enemy, I would be multi, multi, millionaire". He eventually got caught. Since France surrendered, you as a resistance fighter have no longer any Geneva Convention protection and they will torture and execute all they wish. Resistance women and men lived off of stealing chickens, even eating cats (he said so) and your old time neighbor could shoot you in the back, in exchange for chocolate or wine offered by local policing SS (or to avoid their brutality). Once made prisoner, my dad was smart and convinced them he was more valuable to them alive since he was a trained mechanic and machinist. It worked and they had him work in their stronghold submarine base at La Rochelle (where Spielberg filmed Raiders of the Lost Ark in 1980 and Wolfgang Peterson filmed scenes of Das Boot). I told you he was a "fighter" so he managed to sabotage the sophisticated aim of the 88mm deck cannon of several subs (95% of the time, 'Boats" encounter lightly armed ships, saving torpedoes for destroyers or battleships). Many skippers eventually reported shots and misses (while hurrying up to dive, avoiding roaming B25s with barrel dept charges, rushing to aid ships carrying cargo or troupes). Diving towards deeper depths, at a maximum of 8 knots, takes several nerve racking minutes. So they didn't stick around. I reckon that my dad saved a few hundred lives that way, but nobody knows. Nazis had great investigators and intelligence, so they traced all these failures down to HIM. He was imprisoned and tortured, and yet he managed once more to convinced some officers of his worth (indeed they had a severe need of skilled manpower) and they put him back working on U-boats, but watched constantly by a dedicated armed "chaperon" soldier See, since France surrendered, and resistance were "traitors" to France, and mostly since quite a large number of French military personnel had no choice but to fight FOR the nazis, it was never "popular" to mention these stories, even after the war. Nowadays, you see in movies how glamorous it was to be a spy or a resistance fighter. Well, the Gestapo (internal nazi police) used to hunt them down, and impale the back of their skulls on meat hooks. Then they'd send photos to the Brits or US intelligence, a bit like a cat would show you the mouse he caught. So being , by choice, a resistance fighter, joining the brave women and men who did so, was just like diving in the worst military conditions we can imagine. Many got it a lot worse than my father, and nobody will ever know. After the war, he came to Canada and married my mother - a registered nurse - and they had three kids. My dad raised us right as he swore to be a good provider for us kids. However the war did really affect him. He worked in Canada as a machinist, and was very liked by his co-worker until he passed when I was 17 of complications with the one lung he had left. A last anecdote if you don't mind: One time my mother was knitting at home and I noticed her wearing a silver ring with a bashed death skull at an angle, framing short crossbones at the back. She declined telling me why a nurse working in pediatrics would wear a death symbol... Many years later after she passed, I saw this exact design on the web and it was a genuine totenkopf "death's head" SS ring. My father must have offered it to her, no doubt taken from a dead SS he had killed and taken it as a souvenir. I will share this story around, but I assure you that nobody in the entire world, even my late French grampa, even my father's wife have never known the extent of this story, as my dad was extremely private. May there never ever be wars. Being surrounded by peace, fraternity and love is definitely better. Cheer!

    • @robelalehegne8438
      @robelalehegne8438 Рік тому +1

      You could make this a book great story and sorry for your loss

    • @skuaLT
      @skuaLT Рік тому

      thanks for sharing

    • @HazaelFilimohahau
      @HazaelFilimohahau 10 місяців тому

      ​@@robelalehegne8438stupid

    • @kenneth9874
      @kenneth9874 Місяць тому

      Hmmm, to become a millionaire at a nickel a shot would require a shot every minute for close to 2 years......

  • @hebl47
    @hebl47 2 роки тому +2125

    I can actually understand Petain's initial actions and the pursuit of peace. He did not want to see a repeat of WW1 where millions of young French would suffer needless deaths. However there is no excuse for his further actions.

    • @necromater6656
      @necromater6656 2 роки тому +140

      I have heard the argument that given his very advanced age he wasnt entirelty under control of the situation, with his deputy actually doing most of the more heinous orders.

    • @qingyunwang3802
      @qingyunwang3802 2 роки тому +205

      It’s not mass death he didn’t want to see, he was afraid that a WWI-style war will bring a WWI-style Revolution and France will become a Communist regime (not unfounded considering the sabotage to the war efforts against Germany by French Communist Party under direction from Moscow, when USSR and Nazi Germany were still allies).

    • @lycaonpictus9662
      @lycaonpictus9662 2 роки тому +244

      It was a little more complicated than just wanting peace "at any cost." He had far right / authoritarian political leanings, had no love for the French republic, and was an Anglophobe that viewed Britain, rather than Germany, as France's mortal enemy. He's a lot less sympathetic when you dig into his political views & actions while ruling France.

    • @swisstraeng
      @swisstraeng 2 роки тому +44

      @@lycaonpictus9662 and sums up quite well what france was at that time tbh...

    • @mawile3037
      @mawile3037 2 роки тому +16

      Yeah he got what he needed and then did what he wanted, they were a neutral party and had no reason to go as far as he did

  • @pierre-mariecaulliez6285
    @pierre-mariecaulliez6285 2 роки тому +892

    A detail with its own importance : During the campaign on Syria, Vichyist Foreign Legionnaires and Free France Foreign Legionnaires fought against one another. When all was said and done, victims from both sides were buried side by side, with no regard for alliegiance, save for to the Legion... Literal brothers in opposing sides...

    • @sidvyas8549
      @sidvyas8549 2 роки тому +36

      Legio Patria Nostra

    • @samfikeu623
      @samfikeu623 2 роки тому +4

      Man that's tough.

    • @jclee2651
      @jclee2651 2 роки тому +1

      Fascinating story

    • @mrcarr9890
      @mrcarr9890 2 роки тому +3

      Pierre-Marie, can u provide any links with info on this?

    • @carlossaraiva8213
      @carlossaraiva8213 2 роки тому +4

      Yeah, but one side were real cunts who didnt deserved the honour. No excuses for fascism. Fascists are no ones brothers.

  • @ForelliBoy
    @ForelliBoy 2 роки тому +258

    As for Paul Reynaud, by the end of the war he was interned in Castle Itter - the scene of that famous battle between a combined American-Wehrmacht(-and-that-one-SS-officer) force and the Waffen-SS. After his liberation he returned to political life until 1962, when he resigned in protest against Charles de Gaulle's electoral changes.

  • @justalonesoul5825
    @justalonesoul5825 2 роки тому +120

    Oh, trust me, the story of Vichy has absolutely never been forgotten and still gets public attention and is a recurring source of dissession in France.

    • @dannyvandervoort1989
      @dannyvandervoort1989 Рік тому +7

      I’ve always been intrigued by Vichy regime. I personally liked many things about Paul Reynaud and his hardline against Germany but am curious about the French opinion of Petain?

    • @luma8840
      @luma8840 Рік тому +15

      @@dannyvandervoort1989 The opinion of the French on Petain is diverse. President Emmanuel Macron called him a hero of the Great War but a gravedigger in the Second. The Vichy Regime is seen as a disgrace by most French people. There is still a minority who claim that Petain helped De Gaulle by saving a semblance of the French state, the myth of the sword and shield. (De Gaulle was the sword and Petain the shield). But it is rather difficult to give a clear answer on the subject. For example, Petain was disgraced of his title of Marechal at the end of the war but most of the population and even the media still call him by his military title.

    • @didierroux1547
      @didierroux1547 Рік тому +5

      @@dannyvandervoort1989 Paul Reynaud President of the Council Georges Mandel Minister of the Interior, Louis Maurin Minister of State, General De Gaulle Secretary of State and others... wanted to continue the fight, if necessary from North Africa. And it was possible!
      But the soldiers petain marshal, generalissimo weygand and his deputy, general Alphonse Georges, Francois Darlan admiral of the fleet, lieutenant-colonel De Vilmune member of Reynaud's military council. Algeria was still a French department in 1940)

  • @mattc9998
    @mattc9998 2 роки тому +920

    Absolutely incredible animation quality. It should be mentioned that one of Churchill's suggestion's, which was very nearly agreed upon (a document was actually drawn up), was the formal union of the UK and France into a single state.

    • @How23497
      @How23497 2 роки тому +36

      Apparently french officials were on the way to sign it but something (idk what) stopped them

    • @Twosec2die
      @Twosec2die 2 роки тому +144

      It wasn't even remotely close to succeeding in practice. Sure thing that the respective heads of states (de Gaulle & Churchill) favoured it above capitulating to Germany but nothing came of it since everything was on fire, in quite a literal sense.
      Beyond some details such as the positions of each head of state would be extended to the other meaning France would have a king again and Britain have a president and that both parliaments would pass the same legislations - all other details had not been defined yet.

    • @AccusingSteak
      @AccusingSteak 2 роки тому +6

      @@Twosec2die spot on. Couldn't have said it better myself. History matters video?

    • @stefpix
      @stefpix 2 роки тому +32

      @@Twosec2die Churchill was not head of state, but the head of government. The King was the head of state.

    • @panttuckerenjoyer7625
      @panttuckerenjoyer7625 2 роки тому +5

      That’s some 1984 stuff right there

  • @Kulumuli
    @Kulumuli 2 роки тому +249

    Thank you. Finally an easy overlook of Vichy France. I'm Norwegian and I know about the Nazi occupation of Norway well. But it was quite different in France. I guess the historic rivalry between UK and France played a lot into it. Norway, allthough neutral before the invasion, preferred to side with the British. Norway had the Nazi puppet Quisling. But Vichy seems to be more complex.

    • @francoiscamy5066
      @francoiscamy5066 2 роки тому +16

      As usual in France. We have so many different ideas but hate those are not thinking like us. For us, WWII was also a civil war. And even, many resistance groups hated each other, like they were Germans themselves.
      It's not much different today.

    • @marcokite
      @marcokite 2 роки тому +11

      we English love the Scandinavian peoples, our relationship with France has always been more complicated........

    • @lechatrelou6393
      @lechatrelou6393 2 роки тому +3

      @@marcokite and it's not like history didn't try to make us friendly, we had english kings and you had french kings... But we like germans more than you.

    • @jwil4286
      @jwil4286 2 роки тому +6

      Didn’t the king of Norway read Mein Kampf and decide he wanted no part of Hitler?

    • @lloydnaylor6113
      @lloydnaylor6113 2 роки тому

      @@lechatrelou6393 a terrible comment, you prefer Germans to us! Hopefully the German army will never again swarm over your borders again and you cast yours eyes across the channel for help. Next time you are out and about in the French countryside take a look at the British and Commonwealth graveyards. Their blood forever soaked into French soil for your freedom.

  • @FastTquick
    @FastTquick 2 роки тому +786

    I really love documentaries that pay absolute attention to period-accurate details. I like how you used actual Vichy French flags to depict The French State rather than lazily use the standard French Tri-color.

    • @sergevictoryyt
      @sergevictoryyt 2 роки тому +91

      Vichy France’s official flag was the standard tricolor, though. The Vichy French flag that’s commonly used (the one with the axe) is used to differentiate them from the French Republic.

    • @2wodrqwoa
      @2wodrqwoa 2 роки тому +20

      Thing is, it might be good for showing which is which, but the flag is wrong. That's a battle flag or something, not the official flag. Even Wikipedia uses the regular flag.

    • @ForelliBoy
      @ForelliBoy 2 роки тому +18

      There's a modern-border European map about halfway through the video, in the background

    • @manius1222
      @manius1222 2 роки тому +3

      @@ForelliBoy Same with africa.

    • @sergevictoryyt
      @sergevictoryyt 2 роки тому +5

      @@baL88537 he didn’t. He was saying that using the axe flag was attention to detail, when it was the wrong flag.

  • @sspicyyful
    @sspicyyful 2 роки тому +294

    In France there was a lot of political tension between (far) right and (far) left before the war, which influenced what happened during the war. For example, some among the conservative right viewed German occupation in a 'traditional' way, i.e. as temporary until the end of the war as had happened before, and saw it as an opportunity to get rid of the left and of the communists. In that perspective, Nazis were viewed as a tool, not 'friends' or 'masters' and as such not all people working for Vichy can be labelled as 'collaborators' or 'puppets'. Note also that the French communists did not act against German occupiers until German broke the German-Soviet Pact on Moscow's order, which was not exactly the height of patriotism, either. The period really is a French civil war that came close to reignite during the Algerian War.

    • @mihovillmisha9885
      @mihovillmisha9885 2 роки тому +2

      Absolutely rigt

    • @tomk3732
      @tomk3732 2 роки тому +3

      Same occurred in other places, like Poland. It was not just France where Germans were execution tool for political enemies.

    • @bartoszN01
      @bartoszN01 2 роки тому +1

      @@tomk3732 Can you explain the case of Poland?

    • @puma7171
      @puma7171 2 роки тому +1

      This explains why France sided with Germany early on. But does it excuse it? France could have fought on, buying the British time and maybe even keep some stronghold like Brittany, from which to deny the Germans the Atlantic (U-Boats from Brest almost brought down Britain) and serving as a base for invasion. The French fleet could have made a big difference to the British war effort too. All this with some hindsight, of course, but de Gaulle wanted exactly that before fleeing to Britain.

    • @sspicyyful
      @sspicyyful 2 роки тому +44

      @@puma7171 France did not "side with Germany early on"... It was invaded along with most of Europe. If you want to argue that France sought an armistice too early then this is not the explanation. Rather one needs to remember what happened in WWI, which was fought on French soil: People of 1940 remembered it very well since they had done the fighting. "France would have kept a stronghold in Brittany" is a completely unrealistic suggestion: The German army had swept through Europe but could have somehow been stopped along a small frontline in open terrain? This is not Asterix the Gaul...

  • @zeljkothegreekserb
    @zeljkothegreekserb 2 роки тому +475

    Independent State of Croatia is 10 times more forgotten, even though it had far worse death cаmps by sadism than any German run ones, it didn't have gas extermination, instead Serbs, Jews and Roma were killed directly with knives, hammers, pistols, even competitions in killings of inmates were held (google Petar Brzica) , women and children were thrown alive into pits like Prebilovci to die from the fall and there was even an assimilation camp specially made for Serb children, Jastrebarsko, which was run by actual nuns that forced kids to sleep on hay and concrete. The monster that ran this country Ante Pavelic is unknown to most people in the west and because it's so, you can still visit his grave in Madrid even now. You can also visit the grave of Vjekoslav Luburic in Valencia, the guy that was the head of the camp network and essentially the croat Himmler. Could you imagine visiting Himmler's grave in the 21st century in the middle of the EU?

    • @misterpikes7600
      @misterpikes7600 2 роки тому +6

      Croatia was the only puppeted state ? did Germany had direct control over the rest of Yugoslavia ?

    • @Ihavenousernameidea
      @Ihavenousernameidea 2 роки тому +31

      mad serb lol

    • @nigelswindles1129
      @nigelswindles1129 2 роки тому +4

      Little bit more known now thanks for that info 👍

    • @lolofblitz6468
      @lolofblitz6468 2 роки тому +6

      yea yea sure sure
      100k killed in NDH compared to 1,2 Million in 1 german camp
      here lies only you wont get anything from this ..........
      Killed with hammers? pistols? you don't have any proof of this or any people who saw this and reported to Autorities after german capitulation ........

    • @wyattpeterson6286
      @wyattpeterson6286 2 роки тому +1

      Are there any books on that?

  • @jayburn00
    @jayburn00 2 роки тому +158

    Petain in some ways mirrored Benedict Arnold. If Benedict Arnold had died immediately after the battle of Saratoga, he would have been remembered as an American hero. If Petain had died before world war two, he would have been remembered as a hero of France. Instead they lived long enough to become remembered as traitors.

    • @keithbulley2587
      @keithbulley2587 2 роки тому +11

      "Major General Benedict Arnold, American patriot, resided here from 1796 until his death, June 14, 1801."
      Plaque outside No. 62, Gloucester Place, London W1!
      I think I read somewhere that one of Arnold's motivations in joining forces with the mother country against the rebels was that he could not stomach the idea of fighting alongside the traditional enemy, the French.
      I must be one of the few who has visited his grave (by accident) in the crypt of St Mary, Battersea.

    • @danielparker3333
      @danielparker3333 2 роки тому

      He was also always getting fucked over by other generals in America for corruption that was never proven. His only real ally was George Washington and when Benedict Arnold was wounded in a battle. George Washington wouldn’t let him resign

  • @Spongebrain97
    @Spongebrain97 2 роки тому +110

    French teachers in the 1950s talking about Petain in WWI: Yeah I'm pretty sure this guy is a war criminal now

    • @user-ry6ey8gq3t
      @user-ry6ey8gq3t 2 роки тому +1

      Mais tellement

    • @Spongebrain97
      @Spongebrain97 2 роки тому +1

      @Rudolf Hiller yeah, thank you

    • @matpk
      @matpk 2 роки тому +1

      @@Spongebrain97 Compare 1930s Nazi Germany Vs 2020s Communist Chinazi IN YOUR NEXT VIDEO Project before it's too late

    • @Spongebrain97
      @Spongebrain97 2 роки тому +3

      @@matpk modern day China is closer to fascism than communism

  • @parodyclip36
    @parodyclip36 2 роки тому +83

    I am deciding to share what some of my family experienced during ww2 (as a French) because of the crippling ignorance of some in the comments. One of my great grandfather was captured along the French army in 1940. I know he escaped during the trip to Germany but was recaptured and then he re-espcaped of a stalag later during the war. I am not sure if he joined the free French but I know he was awarded a medal so I am assuming he did. One of my other great grandfather was a simple man in 1940. When 2 German scouts on a side-car arrived in his village, one of the young men promptly took their gun away and started molesting them. They succeed to run away back to their division. Later in the week they came back with trucks and soldiers. The 2 Germans quickly pointed out 5 French that looked like their attacker. They executed all 5 of them, my great grandfather among them. They did it "Pour l'exemple" as we say. The last one I know of was a simple farmer with a couple cows and animals. Throughout the entirety of the war German soldiers would came to his farm, beat him and point a gun at his head, in front of his family, before taking his products (milk, eggs, bread...). They would do so about once or twice a month. He even got beat in front of his children because the Germans were threatening everyone if he didn't comply. That s all I got. You can hear a lot of people say French were Collaborationist, they sided with the Germans. The opposite isn't necessarily true, not everyone was a resistant. 98% of the French population was just struggling to stay alive and focused on this or their family, not collaboration. Resistance helped ease the pain (coupons, tracts, radio) so there was a lot of passive resistance.

    • @SuperCatacata
      @SuperCatacata Рік тому +3

      Nobody blames the French public for any of this, they handled such a terrible situation for survival very well. It all falls on those who were leading at the time.

    • @greenlamp9219
      @greenlamp9219 9 місяців тому +1

      i lov reading stories like these and hearing accounts of people who the war affected most of all-just regular day to day people trying to get by. makes you think when u hear stories of war crimes that come from typical solders not just ss or gestapo though

  • @waffle6376
    @waffle6376 2 роки тому +349

    Fun fact : the actual forgotten axis is iraq because most people don’t know about the middle east in ww2 also the axis help them

    • @CommonSense1993
      @CommonSense1993 2 роки тому +59

      They both are forgotten axis power also don't forget Burgarla, Romainia and Hungary they are very forgotten

    • @BHuang92
      @BHuang92 2 роки тому +32

      Also note how WW2 affected the Middle East in ways that still reverberate.

    • @موسى_7
      @موسى_7 2 роки тому +5

      Baath party of Saddam Hussein is related to Nazis, wasn't it?

    • @firstnamelastname4249
      @firstnamelastname4249 2 роки тому +8

      @@موسى_7 لا قصدهم على رشيد عالي الكيلاني

    • @zoemaliya6408
      @zoemaliya6408 2 роки тому +11

      @@موسى_7 no mate, two different ideologies. Baathism was mixed with communism and facism.

  • @jerryu8166
    @jerryu8166 2 роки тому +143

    "History resists simplicity."
    Well said.

  • @thomassoubirous6453
    @thomassoubirous6453 2 роки тому +41

    Zemmour even here ! I'm also french, and joke put aside, my grand-father was arrested by milice and transferred to the east to work in the Buchenwald concentration camp, digging tunnel for V-2 ... Under the daily supervision of werner von braun, later architect of Apollo 11. After being the only survivor of his group during the nazi escape (who would bring the deported into a walk bare foot in the snow, then burn the barn where they rested) he was tortured by US OSS members who believed him to be a spy. Truth and History, indeed, show many faces

    • @hib7295
      @hib7295 2 роки тому

      désolé pour ton grand-père, aucun être human mérite ça.

  • @kovesp1
    @kovesp1 2 роки тому +51

    A bit of trivia. At the end of the movie Casablanca there is a barbed reference to Vichy France. Luis grabs a bottle of mineral water with a well readable "L'Eau Vichy", then contemptuously tosses it into the garbage.
    BTW, Casablanca is chock-full of these kinds of references which one usually only notices after watching the movie multiple times.

    • @slowmo9642
      @slowmo9642 2 роки тому

      Give me more

    • @neiloflongbeck5705
      @neiloflongbeck5705 Рік тому

      Bit like Dr Strangelove, with one of the folders in front of General Jack D. Ripper called Assigned Targets for Megadeaths.

    • @aleksk5534
      @aleksk5534 5 місяців тому

      WHAT is your opinion on Vichy France

    • @jimslancio
      @jimslancio 5 місяців тому +1

      Early in the movie, Captain Renault remarks "I blow with the wind, and right now the prevailing wind is from Vichy."
      Dropping the bottle of Vichy water in the trash symbolizes his change of mind. He then goes with Rick to join the Free French army in Brazzaville (French Congo), and the "beautiful friendship" begins.

    • @orlandogotay9853
      @orlandogotay9853 2 місяці тому

      @@jimslancio And right at the beginning, at the airport, Renault greets Strasser: "Unoccupied France welcomes you"

  • @jacobmask4381
    @jacobmask4381 2 роки тому +121

    "Petain's life was successively banal, then glorious, then deplorable, but never mediocre" - Charles de Gaulle

    • @lunarmodule6419
      @lunarmodule6419 2 роки тому +3

      But De Gaule wasn't there anymore, he had fled. Someone has to be and leader and do the right thing.

    • @LoneCourier2281
      @LoneCourier2281 9 місяців тому +13

      @@lunarmodule6419the right thing?!! My guy he willingly sentenced thousands of his own people to death

    • @TheResilient5689
      @TheResilient5689 8 місяців тому +4

      @@LoneCourier2281Hundreds of thousands at least, in fact.

    • @gladigatorrawr1480
      @gladigatorrawr1480 5 місяців тому

      🤨
      Does he know what banal and mediocre mean?

    • @hanneswiggenhorn2023
      @hanneswiggenhorn2023 3 місяці тому +1

      ​@@gladigatorrawr1480I'm nearly certain that the original quote was in French and this is not a 100% accurate translation

  • @rotequelle
    @rotequelle 2 роки тому +208

    Hey guys, love your videos! I have a suggestions for a topic you could make a video about: The German spartacist uprising in 1919. It is very interesting and often overlooked. It has got everything you could want: Intriguing, battles, politics and many more

    • @coldwar45
      @coldwar45 2 роки тому +7

      Agreed. Especially since it, like the similar one in Munich, was also a critical event in ushering Hitler into politics as well.

    • @harryblaney8571
      @harryblaney8571 2 роки тому +4

      That’s actually one event I wouldn’t mind a video on. Be quite interesting.

    • @rotequelle
      @rotequelle 2 роки тому +2

      I currently working on such a video for a school project (and will surely upload it) but it's sadly in German. But if you'd be interested in some background story and information let me know

    • @coldwar45
      @coldwar45 2 роки тому +2

      @@rotequelle Perhaps add English subs?

  • @hank780
    @hank780 2 роки тому +78

    Excellent video. Animations got much better. It would be great if you do videos about the minor axis powers (like Croatia, Bulgaria, Hungary [I am Hungarian], and Romania)

  • @greghansen38
    @greghansen38 2 роки тому +18

    Thank you! I've seen Vichy France mention many times, but nobody has ever said anything even about what it was. It was always just a name, and otherwise, well, forgotten.

    • @MyVanir
      @MyVanir Рік тому

      You must've been blind then, it literally takes half a minute to know what it was at its base and a couple of minutes to have a boatload of details.

    • @aleksk5534
      @aleksk5534 5 місяців тому

      WHAT is your opinion on Vichy France

  • @elmehecano6837
    @elmehecano6837 2 роки тому +103

    It's really tragic to see how Pétain went from national war hero for his service in Verdun to dictator that helped send numerous French citizens to their death

    • @naamadossantossilva4736
      @naamadossantossilva4736 2 роки тому +6

      Sending your men to the meat grinder shouldn't be enough to make you a hero.The french only have themselves to blame.

    • @JM-ys5vx
      @JM-ys5vx 2 роки тому +6

      @@naamadossantossilva4736 Specifically the French were the worst in WW1 about needless deaths. Like their leaders forced them to wear red pants into battle and refused to change it till tens of thousands of people died. And after they finally changed uniforms, they went with "sky blue" instead of the color of the ground because they thought that during a charge they'd be able to blend in with the horizon.

    • @joshuagrover795
      @joshuagrover795 2 роки тому +5

      That why's Pétain is called the 'Lion of Verdun' and the 'Soldier, Soldier' because of his actions, (stability the defences) during the battle in 1916. Pétain for all his crimes in WW2 was a General who didn't believe in endless useless attacks but wearing down the enemy in defence tactics.

    • @EnigmaEnginseer
      @EnigmaEnginseer 2 роки тому

      @@JM-ys5vx Russia easily takes the title for meaningless deaths in WW1. Tannenberg was an absolute disaster and the Tsar later taking full control of the military only made things worse

    • @ganonsoify
      @ganonsoify 2 роки тому +4

      Tragic but not unexpected when you know French politics. Petain was a legit anti-Republican (born in 1856 so under the Second Empire). He and the rest of the French State were bona fide facists

  • @noitatpab1114
    @noitatpab1114 2 роки тому +330

    As a Frenchman, we studied this period so much on university and it’s really interesting. Your video sums up well what happened during the war. However, this period remains the center of many debates within the history community. What was Petain’s real goal ? What was Laval’s true role with the German collaboration ?

    • @Urlocallordandsavior
      @Urlocallordandsavior 2 роки тому +17

      There's this same debate with the Thai Prime Minister during this period, Plaek Phibunsongkhram, definitely the time when he was nowhere to be found for a few hours during the Japanese invasion of Thailand.

    • @just_pleb8977
      @just_pleb8977 2 роки тому +6

      its even worse now with zemmour deffending petain

    • @jwil4286
      @jwil4286 2 роки тому +5

      @@just_pleb8977 how much of a choice did Petain really have though? Given how quickly Germany dissolved Vichy France in 1944, I don’t see how they could have reasonably gone against Germany.

    • @Kurowll
      @Kurowll 2 роки тому +29

      @@jwil4286 As some suggested, forming a governement in exile in Britain or relocate the capital in Algeria (who was integrated in the french territory and not a colony at the time) to continue the fight. His willingness to collaborate instead of that suggest an opportunist spirit or an ideological motivation, maybe both

    • @jwil4286
      @jwil4286 2 роки тому +8

      @@Kurowll moving the capital would have just delayed the inevitable. If they became a government in exile, then Germany could have taken over all of France and probably would have destroyed more of it.

  • @paradoxicalpotato8927
    @paradoxicalpotato8927 2 роки тому +90

    I would love similar videos about Croatia, Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary, the Chetniks and Thailand.

    • @Zastava-hv5qt
      @Zastava-hv5qt 2 роки тому +15

      Also Slovakia and Iraq

    • @paradoxicalpotato8927
      @paradoxicalpotato8927 2 роки тому +2

      @@Zastava-hv5qt That would be nice too

    • @Aureus282
      @Aureus282 2 роки тому +7

      Hungary and Romania especially. The rivalry between them is interesting and how Antonescu and Horthy reacted individually. Most History nerds know about Croatian warcrimes but not many know about Bulgaria's refusal to cooperate with the other Axis powers.

    • @blackpowderuser373
      @blackpowderuser373 2 роки тому +1

      Manchukuo, and the Japanese occupations of Southeast Asia and the Pacific. And Subhas Chandra Bose.

    • @blackpowderuser373
      @blackpowderuser373 2 роки тому +1

      @@Aureus282 Bulgaria's Tsar Boris III.

  • @wsleet
    @wsleet Рік тому +17

    Yeah Vichy France is definitely not the most forgotten axis puppet.

    • @MR_ponki
      @MR_ponki Рік тому +6

      yeah its probably the independent state of Macedonia or smth, it only lasted for 3 months

    • @Godzillafan78
      @Godzillafan78 6 місяців тому

      Most forgotten is definitely the Slovakia state

  • @aaronpaul9188
    @aaronpaul9188 2 роки тому +192

    The Dreyfus affair deserves its own video, and especially the effect on the political sphere.

    • @stolenhandle
      @stolenhandle 2 роки тому +18

      The Dreyfus affair has massive repercussions that still impact the world today.

    • @brianarbenz1329
      @brianarbenz1329 2 роки тому +16

      I’ve read that in 1940, about 40 percent of France’s population welcomed the German invasion. That, coupled with the treatment of Dreyfus, displays the long anti Semitic history within French society. Though since WWII, the French populace overwhelmingly sees the anti-nazi resistance as heroic, France, like all countries, is complex on the issue of equality.

    • @aaronpaul9188
      @aaronpaul9188 2 роки тому +9

      @@brianarbenz1329 I don't know where you got the 40% statistics, but I have my doubts. Nor does welcoming the defeat of the 3rd republic equate to antisemitism. No one was happy Germany occupied France. Some were very pleased the third republic was destroyed.

    • @rachelgarber1423
      @rachelgarber1423 2 роки тому +3

      Yes, the French military has a long his of antisemitism. Dreyfus was tried twice, after suppression of evidence supporting his innocence. They refused to allow a statue honoring him to be placed in the courtyard of military school, on the grounds that it isn’t open to the public. (Ecole militaries) several places were proposed, but were rejected for various reasons

    • @kalpanaanubhav
      @kalpanaanubhav 2 роки тому +2

      @@brianarbenz1329 Well, not everyone in France was an anti-Semite. Charles de Gaulle and Napoleon are widely known for positive treatment of Jews.

  • @ian22543
    @ian22543 2 роки тому +32

    The animations keeps getting better and better, keep up the good work

  • @thierrydesu
    @thierrydesu 2 роки тому +47

    9:50 I feel like it's important to mention that the elected representatives of the National Assembly and the Senate gathered in Vichy on July 10 and voted Pétain full powers, effectively putting an end to the Third Republic.

    • @phlm9038
      @phlm9038 2 роки тому +1

      Yes, the Vichy Government wasn't a republic. It was a dictature.

    • @thierrydesu
      @thierrydesu 2 роки тому +6

      @@phlm9038 My point is that Vichy does not come from anywhere. It was a legitimate regime given that's what the Paliament voted for.

    • @phlm9038
      @phlm9038 2 роки тому +2

      @@thierrydesu Yes of course.

    • @lunarmodule6419
      @lunarmodule6419 2 роки тому

      They had Germans in the streets. The war was over for them. They didn't have the luxury...

    • @thierrydesu
      @thierrydesu 2 роки тому +2

      @@lunarmodule6419 People took advantage of the situation to impose a new regime but there's no relation between the conditions of the armistice and the political change. The Germans didn't ask for anything.

  • @christopherellis2663
    @christopherellis2663 2 роки тому +6

    Well done! I have been to France several times, and the Memorials to their dead are everywhere. It would have been a horrible thing to live through.

  • @MaxwellAerialPhotography
    @MaxwellAerialPhotography 2 роки тому +25

    Physiatrist: Darth Petain isn’t real, he can’t hurt you.
    Armchair historian:

  • @staffan-
    @staffan- 2 роки тому +8

    "His pal Petain" 17:16
    I see what you did there...

  • @alex.harrison
    @alex.harrison 2 роки тому +97

    Did the title change from “The Forgotten Axis Power” to “The Forgotten Axis Puppet” or did I just imagine that? Love these videos, outstanding channel - thanks Griffin and the team!

    • @nate13012
      @nate13012 2 роки тому +5

      Yeah pretty sure he changed it too

    • @CharliMorganMusic
      @CharliMorganMusic 2 роки тому +10

      This a better title to be sure

    • @thekraken1173
      @thekraken1173 2 роки тому +14

      @@CharliMorganMusic Its less historically accurate though. Vichy France was the real France. It was recognized as official France by most of countries.

    • @nate13012
      @nate13012 2 роки тому +22

      @@thekraken1173 They became a puppet after Case Anton, but Im not sure that is what the video meant, so you are right. They weren't technically an Axis power as well as they were 'neutral'.

    • @FlagAnthem
      @FlagAnthem 2 роки тому +1

      They changed it.
      It is more fitting honestly

  • @EdMcF1
    @EdMcF1 2 роки тому +5

    Reading books by British sailors/airmen c. 1940-41 in the Med, the main impression I got was that Vichy France loomed largest as the hostile force to be reckoned with.

  • @chrisd8866
    @chrisd8866 2 роки тому +94

    5:23 Most likely not, the plan favored by those in the french government and military still willing to fight like De Gaulle and Mandel was to relocate to Algiers, as French Algeria was at the time a formal part of the country and not simply a colony. Besides, that was what all local civilian and military authorities were pleading the government to do, even days after Pétain took over. The desperate pleas of General Noguès, commander in chief of the North African theater, to continue the fight from there are well known.

    • @PatricioMartinezz
      @PatricioMartinezz 2 роки тому +3

      If you're interested, there's an incredible alternate history project called: 1940 La France Continue where Petain dies and France stays in the war fighting from North Africa, you should take a look to it.

    • @RhysapGrug
      @RhysapGrug 2 роки тому +2

      Nonsense!
      The so called resistance was grossly exaggerated, mostly a bunch of commies with a few British spies sent to help out.
      Vichy France was well entrenched with the axis power's even going as far as shooting at the Allies powers during the torch landings " in N Africa and other theatres of the war.
      Even forming a couple of SS Devisions AS charmaine " fighting the Russians all the way to the Hitler bunker!
      Should have treated France the same as Germany,Japan and Italy at wars end,by occupying them for years.

    • @Sceptonic
      @Sceptonic 2 роки тому +17

      @@RhysapGrug Someone is Anti-French. What did France do to you?

    • @Stripedbottom
      @Stripedbottom 2 роки тому +5

      France staying in the fight will also have some interesting repercussions in the Far East. With French Indochina firmly in the Allied camp and at war, there will be no Franco-Thai conflict as Thailand doesn't dare to invade, and neither will the Japanese take over for the same reason, until they're ready for their main invasion in December 1941. Well supplied, not having suffered the losses of the Franco-Thai war and with British support, French Indochina will be able to put up a bit more of a fight against the Japanese than they otherwise could. They will of course still be quickly overrun, but this will cause pretty much everything for the Japanese in the Siam-Malay-Dutch East Indies sector to happen a little bit slower. This might mean they never advance as far in Burma as they really did, and that they will take more casualties in taking over the Dutch East Indies - especially ships and planes which will then not be available for the Solomons campaign. It's not much, but it's a bit of a twist to the Pacific Theatre as well.

    • @Stripedbottom
      @Stripedbottom 2 роки тому +1

      We might see, for example, Repulse and Prince of Wales being sunk by Japanese aircraft at a later date, and maybe in a different place than where they actually were. (Those planes were flying from by then well-established Japanese airbases in French Indochina.)

  • @matthewjay660
    @matthewjay660 2 роки тому +82

    Vichy: an Axis power or an Axis puppet? It’s like asking the same thing for Bulgaria: power or puppet? 🙋🏻‍♂️ I vote “Axis puppet” because “power” implies that they had “choice and control” like Japan.

    • @romaboo6218
      @romaboo6218 2 роки тому +1

      Yeah

    • @davethompson3326
      @davethompson3326 2 роки тому +5

      Bulgaria pretty much managed to limit their war, sending no troops east

    • @baronofbahlingen9662
      @baronofbahlingen9662 2 роки тому +31

      Bulgaria wasn’t a Puppet, they willingly joined and invaded Yugoslavia and Greece and were allowed to refuse support to Barbarossa.

    • @CountScarlioni
      @CountScarlioni 2 роки тому +4

      They still had a choice. Between the roles of resentful slave and willing servant they all too frequently chose the latter.
      Thank god the indomitable heroism of the Free French helped to balance the books.

    • @tomk3732
      @tomk3732 2 роки тому

      Bulgaria was a minor Axis power - as it had national army that did participate on the side of the axis. Through not to the same extend as other minor powers, such as Hungary. Did they had a choice? Sure, they could have tried to stay neutral and be invaded or even join allies. Certainly their role in alliance was far more minor then say Japan or Italy, hence minor power. Notice that a small country of Greece did not join the Axis - they decided to be a minor allied power.

  • @streamlinedengine
    @streamlinedengine 2 роки тому +229

    The ending was beautiful, sir. I’ve been fascinated by France’s WW2 experience for a while now, partly thanks to your video on “Life in Occupied France”. Now, today’s episode is on an even higher level.
    Despite my mostly British centric historic views, I have long resisted France’s role in WW2 as simply “surrendering”, to the point I can even fight memes over it. As you said, history, like truth, rejects simplicity. Thank you again, sir!

    • @Poopooslinger
      @Poopooslinger 2 роки тому +28

      The meme went way too far, especially since it's not just about WWII but all their history for some reason. Everyone got smashed by the Germans at the beginning, including the Soviets.

    • @dekaredfire
      @dekaredfire 2 роки тому +22

      Such a shame that even acclaimed war movies like "Dunkirk" and "1917" are still fall to Anglocentric view of history.

    • @hib7295
      @hib7295 2 роки тому +6

      i'm glad that you actually see my country for what it is and was instead of joining the masses with the "haha french white flag" jokes. thank you.

    • @streamlinedengine
      @streamlinedengine 2 роки тому +10

      @@hib7295 Amen my friend, I’m from Taiwan, and I more than know how it feels when ignorant people say uneducated things about my country. Vive la France! 🇹🇼 🇫🇷

    • @bullshitdepartment
      @bullshitdepartment 2 роки тому +4

      @@Poopooslinger soviets didn't surrender tho

  • @andrewkhan4561
    @andrewkhan4561 2 роки тому +20

    Love how your style of story telling is developing. Your videos always get an automatic thumbs up from me. Keep up the great work!

  • @allensu9363
    @allensu9363 2 роки тому +14

    Always surprised this level of production quality is free

  • @Kabutoes
    @Kabutoes 2 роки тому +14

    fun fact: When De Gaulle visited old General Pershing, the highest ranking US general in ww1 and a good friend of Petain, Pershing asked how Petain was doing. De Gaulle said "he's doing fine"

  • @Kozvick
    @Kozvick 2 роки тому +11

    2:20
    "The citizens of Vichy France were subjected to a constant barrage of propaganda"
    While showing Philippe Pétain as Palpatine. Lol.

  • @brianarbenz1329
    @brianarbenz1329 2 роки тому +12

    I learned of the Vichy French government decades ago, but in all this time, I had never known the details of the story. Excellent video. Thank You.

  • @Lord.Kiltridge
    @Lord.Kiltridge 2 роки тому +174

    In his book To War in a Stringbag, Charles Lamb RNAS includes a recount of his time as a POW of the Vichy French of North Africa. He was not kind, (and neither were they). The shameful behaviour of the Vichy French is not as well known as it should be. Good summary Griff, and long overdue.

  • @josselingarcia7327
    @josselingarcia7327 2 роки тому +148

    Ce que j'adore en histoire c'est que c'est précis et vraiment bien fait. Grâce à vos vidéos j'apprécie beaucoup vos vidéos bravo

    • @hib7295
      @hib7295 2 роки тому +5

      complètement d'accord, pk nos profs d'histoire sont pas comme ça ?

    • @SamraK64
      @SamraK64 2 роки тому +7

      @@hib7295 1. Parce qu'ils n'en ont pas toujours les moyens
      2. Parce qu'ils ne sont pas formés à ça
      3. Parce qu'ils ne sont pas encouragés à le faire
      4. Parce qu'on leur demande d'être des gardiens de prison en plus d'être profs
      5. Parce qu'ils sont forcés de respecter un programme qui arrive à être à la fois surchargé et trop simplifié/superficiel (et ça c'est fort).
      6. Parce qu'on leur demande, en plus de vous apprendre des choses et de vous surveiller, de vous évaluer, ce qui est une charge de travail énorme, crée une relation moins saine entre vous, et rend tout le reste plus difficile.

    • @hib7295
      @hib7295 2 роки тому +2

      @@SamraK64 ouais honnêtement, ça me choque pas vu ce que mes profs me disent- mais bon, faut savoir voir le sarcasme

    • @max-eu2qi
      @max-eu2qi 2 роки тому

      Zemmour a raison sur Vichy et les juifs français.
      Ce documentaire est selon moi pas bon du tout.

    • @ttjesus4959
      @ttjesus4959 2 роки тому +1

      Josselin, either you translated your statements from English, or you're French-Canadien, or you're from somewhere other than Quebec that speaks French as if it were English (Which is an awful way to speak French. Plus, Quebec has a tyrannical government and the worst French accent in the world). It's "Grace a vos videos..." that gives it away. You would only say it like that in English, not in proper French. You would phrase it completely differently in proper French. Translators don't know this though. Also, your statements are perfectly accented, which is another sign of a translator being used. If you were simply a French-Canadien, you would probably be a bit more relaxed on accenting while still speaking French as if it were English.
      So, I'm going with my initial instinct on this and I'm saying that this was English put through a translator. That's fine though. Idc really. It's just an odd choice by you. That's all.

  • @kaanyasin3733
    @kaanyasin3733 2 роки тому +121

    I dissagree about the "forgotten" one. Its the Most WELL KNOWN puppet in the axis

    • @hazzmati
      @hazzmati 2 роки тому +5

      Yeah agreed this is not a good title.

    • @pocketmarcy6990
      @pocketmarcy6990 2 роки тому +9

      Less people probably know about Bulgaria Romania and Hungary’s role in the war as opposed to Vichy France’s

    • @kaanyasin3733
      @kaanyasin3733 2 роки тому +7

      @@pocketmarcy6990 yeah but they we're fully Independent. Bulagria even kept diplomatic reletions with the soviets after the Invasion of russia. Bulagria also didnt willingly deport jews (exept for in the regions that they got after the Invasion of greece and yugoslavia because there we're German troops there). But yes.

    • @robmiah4501
      @robmiah4501 2 роки тому +1

      Well said well know puppet of Axis Hitler lackeys

    • @mawile3037
      @mawile3037 2 роки тому

      Yeah to me it seems like the Balkans basically folded because their military was just not up to snuff
      while France it's like " yeah we just put this puppet state for the rest of it because we don't want to waste the resources outright conquering everything " like it's so obvious but mostly because it's really the only country on the western front, the Benelux region is basically just free real estate

  • @mrronron7328
    @mrronron7328 2 роки тому +8

    Thank you for speaking about this subject ! I'm tired of hearing some peoples saying "french surrender" without even knowing how complex the situation was

    • @MrVlad12340
      @MrVlad12340 Рік тому

      That video makes it clear that “french surrender and then switch allegiances and become even worse”.

    • @mrronron7328
      @mrronron7328 Рік тому

      @@MrVlad12340 Have you even watched the video ?

    • @MrVlad12340
      @MrVlad12340 Рік тому +1

      @@mrronron7328 yes. Vichi collaborating government had people’s support unlike De Gaulle’s government in exile.

    • @mrronron7328
      @mrronron7328 Рік тому

      @@MrVlad12340 No, peoples were just trying to live their life. They weren't against De Gaulle's governement, they were against the image that Petain's propaganda made of it. Also don't forget that France was under constant bombing from the UK after its occupation by Germany, so it certainly didn't helped the population to pick a side. And still, when France was getting liberated, there was more than 1M resistant landing in/ in France, and many peoples decided that it was stime to fight the Germans once again.

    • @Godzillafan78
      @Godzillafan78 6 місяців тому

      France surrendered

  • @gatorvon3178
    @gatorvon3178 2 роки тому +18

    I love that you put subtle pop culture references here and there, in this case Palpetain

  • @TheFrencky
    @TheFrencky 2 роки тому +8

    You have been my favorite UA-camr of all time. Every video gets me excited after a long day of work. As a French men I’m happy you try to explore these topics as it is a hard topic to talk about in France

    • @thunderbird1921
      @thunderbird1921 2 роки тому +1

      Well, at least those traitors were crushed and you formed a new republic. Remarkable how Frenchmen then fought for another nation's freedom just five years later. You guys had a volunteer force fighting in Korea (and they actually fought alongside our American forces against the Chinese at the critical Battle of Chipyong-ni).

  • @eduardogutierrez4698
    @eduardogutierrez4698 2 роки тому +192

    Petain somehow reminds me of Robert E. Lee. Both were war heroes ( Petain was admired for his actions in WWI ,while Lee was for what he did in the war against Mexico ) but their reputations were severely stained due to them joining the wrong side years later.

    • @dac5782
      @dac5782 2 роки тому +9

      You mean Pétain?

    • @robosoldier11
      @robosoldier11 2 роки тому +39

      Defining them as individuals falling to the "Wrong side" that they picked seems short sighted in my opinion. At the end of the day they choose their country (I guess for Lee his state but in practical sense a country esq. thing) even if it meant getting dirtied by the macro messaging of certain wars in history. I'm not sure if they would be considered noble men but there leaders that at the very least have a sympathetic tale. They didn't start the war but they did get caught up in whirlwinds of one and they got tossed around while trying to endure it and hopefully ensure their countries come out unscathed/no worse off.

    • @abdurrahmanqureshi3030
      @abdurrahmanqureshi3030 2 роки тому +8

      Im pretty sure Rober E Lee was admired no matter which part of America you were from

    • @chrisjansen1943
      @chrisjansen1943 2 роки тому

      Vichy is a town, not a person.

    • @robosoldier11
      @robosoldier11 2 роки тому +14

      @@abdurrahmanqureshi3030 Back then? Sure he was a veteran of the Mexican American war and more or less seemed to be on the up and up. You don't get recommended by president to lead the army for the shits and giggles of it when there is a actual war brewing. Today it more or less is who you ask. People up in North of the US view anything attached to the confederacy as dirty and implicated hence there is a negative stigma to Lee. You do get some admirers of Lee also in the South but more or less I think the majority of people view Lee as someone who got forced into a very hard choice. Whether it was the right one or not is again up the individual.

  • @michaelbirch8666
    @michaelbirch8666 2 роки тому +3

    Thank you. I've never really understood the distinction between occupied France and Vichy France; very illuminating.

  • @SWATDRUMMUH
    @SWATDRUMMUH 2 роки тому +8

    i honestly considered about doing the storyboarding. but i couldn't in fear of conflict with work and school

  • @SHGames97
    @SHGames97 2 роки тому +5

    Wow dude, EXCEPTIONAL writing and delivery on intro 😭♥️

  • @jbperrinnl
    @jbperrinnl 2 роки тому +5

    Great summary of a painful and complicated period for France. You didn't really talk about the "STO" (forced labour service instated by the Germans on all French youth), which was a major point of contention between Vichy and Hitler and pushed a lot of young people into some kind of resistance (from passive fleeing to active attacks on German or Vichy interests). The complexity of it all I can testify about, since my own grandfather, who was an officer in Tunisia in 1939, went through all facets of it: from hating the Germans and fighting them, to hating the British after Mer El Kebir to the point of volunteering for active duty against them in Syria (which was refused), to relative neutrality facing the Italians while waiting with his men in the desert in 1942, to switching to the Allies again when the Germans invaded Vichy France, then fighting bravely in Italy at Monte Cassino and landing with his men in Saint Mandrié in 1944 and all the way to the invasion of Tyrol by the Free French.

  • @jonnejarvinen
    @jonnejarvinen 2 роки тому +61

    Interesting to hear of the extent that Vichy France collaborated with Germany. Clearly most people know of the alliance but I for one didn't know how far it reached.

    • @404Dannyboy
      @404Dannyboy 2 роки тому +16

      Largely because inordinate focus is put on the relatively tiny minority of the French that actually fought against the Germans because the allies wanted to reconstitute France as a power after the wars conclusion both as a bulwark against communism and as a way to more peacefully manage the chaos of its empire.

    • @jonnejarvinen
      @jonnejarvinen 2 роки тому +1

      @@404Dannyboy Hah! It's interesting that history is many times so subjective, and no wonder.

    • @mawile3037
      @mawile3037 2 роки тому +1

      @@jonnejarvinen history is written by the victor and Vichy was more or less a neutral party while the Free French were super ragtag bunch that weren't even recognized as the legit government in the beginning

    • @lunarmodule6419
      @lunarmodule6419 2 роки тому +1

      They had no choice. The Germans were in the streets.

    • @mikeno8192
      @mikeno8192 2 роки тому +1

      Lunar Module: They had a lot of choice, the Germans got along with them (historians note there wasn’t really coercion in what they did), they pursued their own agenda, basically they supported collaboration, but denied and tried to save face after the war when it became clear that Britain and America would win instead. The lies and falsification - denying the extent of collaboration lingered strongly for many years until historians uncovered the bs and published this.

  • @hpw101
    @hpw101 2 роки тому +8

    One of your absolute best videos, Griffin.

  • @murkywateradminssions5219
    @murkywateradminssions5219 2 роки тому +32

    "ah, so this is how Napoleon felt when he was exiled..."
    -marshal Philippe Pétain probably

    • @samrevlej9331
      @samrevlej9331 2 роки тому +10

      Napoleon, for all his faults, dictatorial tendancies and warmongering, wasn't a traitor who sold over 75,000 Jews living in France in exchange for an even worse situation for the country. I'm not one of the little Corsican's worshippers but comparing him to Pétain is a bit of an insult.

    • @murkywateradminssions5219
      @murkywateradminssions5219 2 роки тому +1

      It was ment to be a joke about Napoleon's exilelation.(hint, the probably at the end was a good indication)
      Napoleon for all his warmongering at least served his people and did changes that influenced both France and modern society and he was rather chill with religion and the Jewish population at the time. Pètain on the other hand deserves to be trialed at the Nuremberg trails for crimes against humanity and should be hung/shot by firing squad for mass deportation of Jews and other minority groups in France. Him being transferred to several private homes/prisons was too relaxed of a prison sentence in my opinion but I'm no Frenchman so I can't say for certain...
      Again I would like to enforce the message that my comment if purely for comedic purposes, it does not reflect my personal opinion about real history events such as this.
      If you read my essay comment, thank you for understanding.

    • @unclesam5230
      @unclesam5230 2 роки тому +1

      @@samrevlej9331 Napoleon was a traitor because he was a Revolutionary that helped destroy the French Monarchy and started many wars to assert a foreign run empire to conquer Europe so yeah HES A TRAITOR!

    • @Godzillafan78
      @Godzillafan78 6 місяців тому +1

      Yeah uh unlike pétain Napoleon actually fought til to the end and never betrayed France itself nor did he sell out Jews to be executed

    • @aleksk5534
      @aleksk5534 5 місяців тому

      What is your opinion on Vichy France

  • @malafunkshun8086
    @malafunkshun8086 2 роки тому +8

    Another good episode!
    As time goes on, and more distance is gained between the Second World War and the Present, I think it will become easier for historians to not only study histories of collaboration - including Vichy France - but also assess their significance. Studying these histories is difficult because they are often considered “kapu” (taboo), due to the shame surrounding them. But these stories are as essential to understanding World War II as the more familiar stories of occupation, resistance, and liberation.
    Aloha 🙏🏼🤙🏼

  • @pilifhunter4864
    @pilifhunter4864 2 роки тому +39

    Great graphics, animations combined with great narration. Very well done. I love your content.

  • @That-Belgian-Guy
    @That-Belgian-Guy 2 роки тому +32

    Keep the good work up!
    Would be nice if you would make a video about the Belgian revolution and 10 days campaign!

  • @kaisercaliberhistory3533
    @kaisercaliberhistory3533 2 роки тому +271

    Petain is probably the best real life historical embodiment of “you either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become a villain.”

    • @zeddeka
      @zeddeka 2 роки тому +2

      What a stupid saying.

    • @OskTheMosk
      @OskTheMosk 2 роки тому +3

      Stolen comment, BUT you might have thought the same thing

    • @laserpmr
      @laserpmr 2 роки тому +1

      He was most likely evil from a start

    • @anthonykatsivalis224
      @anthonykatsivalis224 Рік тому +1

      @@laserpmr we won’t know for sure, but what we do know is he did what he thought was right, he wanted to keep the peace in France, however personally I do not like the fact he committed acts of genocide and authoritarianism

    • @laserpmr
      @laserpmr Рік тому

      @@anthonykatsivalis224 he was fascist even before the nazis. So we do know what he wanted. He published a lot of propaganda and gave speeches every few day. All extremely right-wing . If he wanted to help France, he would have moved to Africa to mobilize millions of soldiers from the colonies

  • @dpedd12
    @dpedd12 2 роки тому +10

    This channel has only recently come to my attention. And has immediately become my favorite channel on all of UA-cam. Honestly incredible.
    The context the imagery provides to the historical stories are just perfect. And such a good tool for learning.

  • @derpyhead3414
    @derpyhead3414 2 роки тому +15

    The forgotten axis power: "France"
    Thailand: cries

    • @ernestogastelum9123
      @ernestogastelum9123 2 роки тому

      thailand was more of Japans allie rather than Germany and Italy

  • @caseblue2232
    @caseblue2232 2 роки тому +379

    I felt we often blinded by hoi4 in a way, I played as Vichy France, and declared on Germany in 43 to liberate France, making Petain actually an national hero, that felt really good. Yet, I know little about the real Petain, so thank you for making this video, to let me know more about the actual history.

    • @EumosVideos
      @EumosVideos 2 роки тому +32

      bideo game is like real life

    • @canthi109
      @canthi109 2 роки тому +52

      When historical focus is off

    • @Reskov
      @Reskov 2 роки тому +9

      Wow that’s actually a scenario I’ve never thought of. Good stuff.

    • @scottwillie6389
      @scottwillie6389 2 роки тому +13

      Pétain was a national hero. If The UK/US didn't invade France at the conclusion of the war and Pétain's government hadn't been deposed, France would probably look much like Switzerland today and French Algeria never would have fallen.

    • @destubae3271
      @destubae3271 2 роки тому +2

      I had a democratic and very libertarian France heading the Little Entente (basically the Allies with democratic Germany and democratic Italy) conquer most of the Soviet union, which was all headed by Pierre Laval. That game can't be historical, even if historical was on

  • @cannonball666
    @cannonball666 2 роки тому +62

    Free French: "You are traitors!"
    Vichy French: "No, mon ami. We were just profiting from tragedy and selling you out"

    • @FlagAnthem
      @FlagAnthem 2 роки тому +22

      De Gaulle: You were the Lion of Verdun! It was said you would fight the Germans not join them! Bring glory to France not leave her in the datkness!

    • @ommsterlitz1805
      @ommsterlitz1805 2 роки тому +2

      @@FlagAnthem Not only this is cannon as Star wars is an SF version of ww1 and ww2 but Anakin and Obiwan are in a republic and Palpatine transformed it into a Dictatorship

    • @burningphoenix6679
      @burningphoenix6679 2 роки тому +22

      @White Knight De Gaulle helped save France from tyranny. Whether he was personally a good leader or not is debatable as he did some bad things in the Cold War, but France under him was far far better than France under the traitor Petain.

    • @Sceptonic
      @Sceptonic 2 роки тому +9

      @@burningphoenix6679 What "bad" things did he do? Step up to the puppeting Americans by making a nuke and leaving NATO?

    • @FlagAnthem
      @FlagAnthem 2 роки тому +1

      @White Knight nazi spotted

  • @jonbaxter2254
    @jonbaxter2254 2 роки тому +5

    The fourth axis, and one that really doesn't get the flak it should. The Milice alone were monsters.

    • @phlm9038
      @phlm9038 2 роки тому +1

      Not only the Milice but also the French Gestapo, made of criminals.

  • @danijelajovanovic3214
    @danijelajovanovic3214 2 роки тому +23

    Can you talk about Yugoslavia next? I haven't seen much of that.

  • @waffle6376
    @waffle6376 2 роки тому +15

    There are more axis power than vichy france,germany,italy,Hungary bulgaria japan and romania. There was also iraq,croatia,slovakia,and thailand

  • @SteelScream88
    @SteelScream88 2 роки тому +1

    Thank you for this mini documentary.
    I have a history major and we don't talk about Vichy France as much as we should.
    So thank you so much.
    Thank you for educating people.
    Much oblidged !!!!

  • @CJ_1406
    @CJ_1406 2 роки тому +28

    De Gaulle: I'm the leader of France.
    Roosevelt: No, Vichy is the legitimate government of France.
    *months later*
    Germany: *invades Vichy France*
    De Gaulle: So?
    Roosevelt: ...
    *NO!*

    • @av_oid
      @av_oid 2 роки тому +1

      Both de Gaulle and Petain were pompous, arrogant, self-promoting French gits. Just that de Gaulle was a patriot and anti-German.

    • @Cjnw
      @Cjnw 2 роки тому +1

      Am I going insane??!

    • @SpookyScarySkitarii
      @SpookyScarySkitarii 2 роки тому +1

      @@av_oid Pompous and arrogant ? Like any american ?

  • @IronDragon-2143
    @IronDragon-2143 2 роки тому +19

    The Darth Sidious reference was funny and clever 🤣
    Btw, can you please make a video of the Last Stand of the Swiss Guard during the Sack of Rome in 1527? Last stands are my favorite battles in history.

    • @krystacn
      @krystacn 2 роки тому +3

      I was coming here to say the very same thing! 😆 I was also trying to make sure I wasn't the only one seeing that!? Absolutely one of the most clever, humorous animation thrown into a 'serious' documentary that I believe I have ever seen ✌🖖🖖🤟🤟👆
      🖕 Peutain

    • @IronDragon-2143
      @IronDragon-2143 2 роки тому +1

      @@krystacn Great minds think alike 😁

    • @Willigula
      @Willigula 2 роки тому +1

      Fun Fact: Pétain actually was an evil Sith Lord and used Sith Lightning regularly to silence his opponents.

  • @ryanharris1052
    @ryanharris1052 2 роки тому +29

    Great video. I’m surprised someone who loved France so, or at least had once would submit to overseeing its surrender, and even worse profiting from the plight of his great nation.

    • @jamaay1763
      @jamaay1763 2 роки тому +2

      That is what is very difficult with the history of Pétain. Even today in France he is still a controversed character. He was in a situation where he felt like he had no choice and no other course of action. And given the circumstances, many agreed with him. And what little left there was, he took part in some shady and gruesome actions.

    • @mythicdawn9574
      @mythicdawn9574 2 роки тому +8

      @@jamaay1763 From what I've heard from some historians, Pétain always had this kind of pessimistic / defeatist mindset. During his supposedly best moments, ww1, he claimed a bunch of times this or that position would fall soon and that it was imperative to fall back this or that unit. And then, other generals would just ignore the claims, hold the ground, and literally no catastrophe happens. I think many historians find Pétain's role during ww1 overrated. He did help the moral of the troops with shifts and many other things, but he certainly was not instrumental in the French / Entente strategical victory. He was considered as the savior of France mostly because he was famous within the troops (soldiers tend to like a lot people who care about them, especially with probably the shittiest war ever to be in when it comes to day to day life and fighting conditions), instead of someone like Joffre for example.

  • @OTDMilitaryHistory
    @OTDMilitaryHistory 2 роки тому +17

    Vichy is definitely not forgotten, especially in France.

  • @xavierh.6370
    @xavierh.6370 2 роки тому +12

    Just finished my history senior capstone about Vichy France actually! Glad to see you dedicate an episode to the topic!

  • @eepicx5418
    @eepicx5418 2 роки тому +10

    You should definitely make a video on other puppets like Manchukuo, free state of Croatia and Italian social republic just to name a few

  • @Zaharky
    @Zaharky 2 роки тому +122

    nice video on a complex topic. I am french myself, and used to study history quite in depth at uni. I think that the video could have used a bit of historiography, like most complex subjects : How the myth of " all french resisted" endured, how some attempted to say that Vichy and De Gaulle worked together (totally unfounded) and how some still try to defend Vichy's regime and contest the admission by french goverment that yes french Police rounded up Jews to send to camp, knowingly and not under german pressure - an admission that came very very late....
    Just attempting some constructive criticism, the video is very good, but the historic legacy is often an important aspect, as Petain is actually, for some not so weird reason, still in debate in the french election in 2021....

    • @Thebrosonline
      @Thebrosonline 2 роки тому +6

      Very informative coment, as always, history resists oversimplifications.

    • @baguymcfrog840
      @baguymcfrog840 2 роки тому +13

      De Gaulle is part of the reason the "all French resisted" myth came along, the country was in ruin and had to be rebuild. Historian Paxton was the one who put to light the truth about Petain and the collaboration. Before that the average French people believed that Petain acted as a double agent and only pretended to collaborate.

    • @TheBlackfall234
      @TheBlackfall234 2 роки тому +4

      Germany is portrayed as the Evil Empire, until you realise pretty much all Countrys were Rascist and Antisemitic. Suddenly it gets complicated.

    • @wildfire5181
      @wildfire5181 2 роки тому +3

      @@TheBlackfall234 *Looks at the Holocaust* Reaaaally don't think it's complicated when people call Nazi Germany an Evil Empire. Accurate is the word I would use, not complicated.

    • @TheBlackfall234
      @TheBlackfall234 2 роки тому +2

      @@wildfire5181 Stalin Holocausted 4 million people before the years 1932.
      Turkey and Armenia ? Japan and China ? America and the Natives ?
      France and Algeria ?
      Before ww2, genocide didnt get you the title of "evil empire".

  • @1984Phalanx
    @1984Phalanx 2 роки тому +5

    My greatest sympathy is for all the innocents who suffered at the hands of these powerful men.

  • @NuncNuncNuncNunc
    @NuncNuncNuncNunc 2 роки тому +128

    I suspect the next "forgotten" WW2 history will be about British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain, the Munich Agreement and his declaration to the British people of having achieved peace. Petain, like Chamberlain almost singlehandly changed the connotation of an English word. Along those lines, perhaps lesser known in the US is the word quisling and its namesake.
    How about the war in Ethiopia, the Second Sino-Japanese War, German operations in SA, the Farhud in Iraq? There's a lot that is actually forgotten by US standards, at least. Kudos for India video!

    • @jollyjohnthepirate3168
      @jollyjohnthepirate3168 2 роки тому +14

      It was a shame Chamberlain stabbed the Czechs in the back. The Germans would have found the Czech border defenses and armed forces a formidable objective to easily conquer. If they had stopped and perhaps defeated the Wermacht in 1938 how much different would world history have been?

    • @kriysixvector4552
      @kriysixvector4552 2 роки тому +3

      'Forgotten' WW2 history... like Southern Africa and South America.

    • @davidw.2791
      @davidw.2791 2 роки тому +1

      In China we had our own Quisling, his name was Wang Jingwei. “Save the country by a wriggle-shaped road,” he thought. What could possibly go wrong, he thought.

    • @davidw.2791
      @davidw.2791 2 роки тому +3

      @@jollyjohnthepirate3168 Imagine if they kicked Hitler’s ass for daring to re-militarize the Rhineland. Hell, imagine if France invaded western Germany, or even so much as fired shells at it in 1939 after war broke out, instead of sitting on their asses.

    • @MrDragon1968
      @MrDragon1968 2 роки тому +5

      Chamberlain wasn't a quisling (which is a Norwegian word). He was misguided in his attempts to avoid another world war (but then again most govt's of the time were into appeasement - including the US), but he was also responsible for building up Britain's defenses - particularly the RAF.

  • @keatzthememelord5920
    @keatzthememelord5920 2 роки тому +19

    Love World War 2 topics, so much to talk about. Time for yet another great video.

  • @Jarod-te2bi
    @Jarod-te2bi 2 роки тому +8

    Love to see a free France video, and a video on the British commandos.

    • @lordcharles9786
      @lordcharles9786 2 роки тому +2

      Absolutely the second one, the commandos are so damn cool

  • @terrynichols7991
    @terrynichols7991 10 місяців тому

    In the closing argument that was probably the best description of vichy france that i have ever heard

  • @Urlocallordandsavior
    @Urlocallordandsavior 2 роки тому +450

    It's ironic yet tragic how France lost essentially like 10% of its population in WWI, only to its military to decisively lose to the Nazis within a few months in 1940, its ships being struck down or taken in custody by their allies the British, and her popular WWI national hero, Petain, becoming a brutal pro-Nazi dictator. And that isn't including the catastrophic loss of her colonies post-WWII.

    • @حسينمانوس
      @حسينمانوس 2 роки тому +14

      He betrayed France even before ww2 😉

    • @حسينمانوس
      @حسينمانوس 2 роки тому +5

      If you were a living hero of your nation or planet then you see so much in the coming enemy to the point you hate your nation and wish their destruction

    • @gunterthekaiser6190
      @gunterthekaiser6190 2 роки тому +92

      To be fair the colonial treatment by the French was not a good thing. Just look at Algeria.

    • @Urlocallordandsavior
      @Urlocallordandsavior 2 роки тому +25

      @@gunterthekaiser6190 It was just as catastrophic to French society and pubic opinion as Vietnam was to the US, or Spain was during the Spanish-American War.

    • @motmot8879
      @motmot8879 2 роки тому +11

      @@gunterthekaiser6190 the algerian crimes are mostly associated with the Paras, which were instantly transfered from indochina to algeria leaving them in a terrible state making them use awful tactics

  • @chrisedrev9519
    @chrisedrev9519 2 роки тому +4

    This was wonderful. One of your most in-depth videos so far. Thank you for continuing to increase your quality.

  • @witbcoedus
    @witbcoedus 2 роки тому +6

    Oh, this is brilliant. Great quality work.

  • @akosbarati2239
    @akosbarati2239 2 роки тому +23

    The single most defining thing I have missed from this video was one of the reasons why collaborationists gave birth to Vichy France. By the Summer of 1939, very shortly before the war broke out in Europe, the Japanese in Tientsin installed a barbed wire barricade to thwart British and French attempts to help Republican China.
    Applying the mindset of the 1930s, pseudofascitic France (yes even before the fall) turned away from the Little Entente as did the UK, and focused solely on their colonial empires. The collaborators knew or strongly suspected that Il Duce will come gunning for their North African possessions, as well as the Japanese will come for Asian colonies.
    Pétain et al firmly believed it is France's "sacred duty" to keep their colonies "civilized" and to not surrender them at any cost. This is why I would technically debate that Vichy France ended in 1942. In fact, until the summer of 1945 in a very diminished capacity but still existing, Indochina, the possessions in Republican China, and possessions in Micronesia were administered by Vichy France, that it is until Japan forced them to hand them over permanently.
    For example, the French Concession that was home to the Shanghai Ghetto was handed over to Wang Jingwei's Reorganized Chinese Government was signed between Vichy France and the Reorganized Government, yet De Gaulle's France viewed the agreement as fait accompli. You should not have left a hole the size of Asia out of story, since it was a huge motivation.

  • @MikeWiesenberg
    @MikeWiesenberg 2 роки тому +8

    Can you move your desk so we can see this alleged armchair?

  • @republicempire446
    @republicempire446 2 роки тому +81

    Petain is among the most tragic historical figures in WWII considering what he saw in WWI broke him. Come to think of it. France in WWII was a global civil war as both sides fought against each other.

    • @gringologie9302
      @gringologie9302 2 роки тому +3

      False.

    • @republicempire446
      @republicempire446 2 роки тому +26

      @@gringologie9302 you do have a good point

    • @burningphoenix6679
      @burningphoenix6679 2 роки тому +22

      He may be tragic, but ultimately he deserves no sympathy as he took part in the Holocaust.

    • @Sceptonic
      @Sceptonic 2 роки тому +9

      @@burningphoenix6679 Wrong, he is still human.

    • @ajarofmayonnaise3250
      @ajarofmayonnaise3250 2 роки тому +20

      @@Sceptonic the Jews were human too.

  • @critical_crunch
    @critical_crunch 2 роки тому +6

    THANK YOU, always wanted to learn more about Petain and Vichy France.

    • @thierrydesu
      @thierrydesu 2 роки тому +1

      Unfortunately you will not get accurate information from this video.

    • @thekommunistkrusader3921
      @thekommunistkrusader3921 2 роки тому +1

      @@thierrydesu how so

    • @Debre.
      @Debre. 2 роки тому +1

      @@thekommunistkrusader3921 Look at his other comments - he is a right-wing extremist who thinks Vichy France was socialist. He's beyond help.

    • @billclark374
      @billclark374 3 місяці тому

      ​@@Debre.You got all that from this video? You must have mental problems. Imagine defending a guy that sold his own people out to the most dangerous racist and truly depraved group of fascists that ever existed

  • @romainbalard536
    @romainbalard536 2 роки тому +1

    I am french and I am happy to see a work of good quality on the subject.

  • @Kagekatsu1
    @Kagekatsu1 2 роки тому +5

    Armchair Historian: “The Forgotten Axis Puppet: Vichy France”
    Italian Social Republic: “Hey, what about us?!”