Just a brief overview on axe wedges. I haven’t seen an in-depth video out there on wedges. These are just my thoughts at this point. I’m subject to changing my mind.
Also, regarding grain direction in the wedge, I think it would matter because wood expands and contracts more in certain grain directions. Same thing would apply with your softwood wedges having thicker rings, thicker rings will expand and contact more than tighter grain.
That’s probably the best explanation I’ve heard so far. I’ll be honest I typically just pick a wedge that looks like it’s already close to fitting in the kerf in both directions and go from there, but perhaps I ought to give it some more thought. Thanks for commenting, Kenneth. I hope you decide to sub and stick around. Appreciate you.
Good one Kev. I think the hardwood/softwood debate is kinda funny. I believe you should match the wedge material to compliment the handle material. I use a different wedge depending if the handle is Ash, Hickory, Birch, Red Elm, Osage, etc. Generally I use a harder wood wedge on softer wood handles and a softer wedge on harder handles. Certain woods work well together and give exellent compression and a mechanical lock if they compliment each other in the right way. The best example I have found of this is a Yellow Birch wedge on a White Ash handle. Beautiful compression and the grain of the two woods tend to marry each other and lock in hard. I personally dislike adding a metal wedge to a virgin hang. If the wood wedge isn't secure enough, then you are doing it wrong IMO, but I understand someone adding one as extra security(belt AND suspenders) Also, I think its far too common for most in the community to pay so much attention to their compression at the top and and not enough attention gaining that same compression at the bottom of the eye. The wedge can really only act on the top 2/3, the bottom 1/3 of the eye often doesn't get the attention it needs, especially by those more concerned with the beauty of their hang and not the function. Just my $0.02, keep up the content brother!
I pretty much agree with you, only I’m not as confident I know what is going on with different woods and grains inside the eye over time. But I agree the debate should move from hard vs soft to more of an intuitive decision when hanging an axe. Each one is different. And anyone who’s hung a couple axes (or even just one) should be able to keep an axe tight with just a wooden wedge. I’m not interested in hanging it tight, but not having to bother with it a year down the road. I won’t put up with even a little winter wiggle. I’d bet I could go through almost anybody’s axe collection and bang them on the concrete and find at least one, especially during the cold months, with evidence that the head seated further down on the shoulder (or bounced on a bad transition). Enter barrel wedge. But as you point out, it’s about a perfect fit all the way through. I know it’s scoffed at, but that’s why I’m a gap guy. I don’t want to see them. I’ve always thought it would be really cool if someone could mold a clear plastic axe head, something you could bang around that wouldn’t break. Then we could could really see what it looks like inside the eye under compression. Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts. I enjoy rational discussion. I don’t enjoy and don’t engage with: idiot soft wood is so obviously the best. Thanks
You mention wood shrinking and expanding throughout different seasons. That’s absolutely true, however my process for dealing with this is right before I hang the axe head, I heat up a pot of sand on top of the wood stove and warm a small cup of linseed oil. I bury the top of the axe handle, the wedge, and bury the axe head eye in the sand (keep the edge out of the sand) for about 5-10 minutes, not long enough to burn it or crack it, just long enough to make sure everything is pretty hot and the top of handle and wedge is DRY as a bone. Then quickly, (you have to move fast) I remove the handle and while it’s still hot, put the axe head over the handle and hammer the bottom of the axe handle with a dead blow hammer to seat it as far as it’ll go, next I pour warm linseed oil in the eye over (imagine the eye being a cup, before you put the wedge In just fill up the cup), after that I dip the wedge in the warm linseed oil as well and hammer away, as far it’ll go, I start with a dead blow or wooden mallet, but as it goes further and further I’ll use a small metal sledge, it doesn’t matter if the wedge cracks although it usually doesn’t. Then I wipe the axe handle down with linseed but I wait about an hour before wiping any of the oil off the eye of the axe. I let it soak and absorb. Never once had an axe head even think about coming loose and even the ones I keep by the stove in the winter. My though being that if you make sure the axe is as dry as it’ll ever be when you hang it there’s no way it can dry out and come lose later down the line. I also tend to use walnut wedges as the look nice but are also soft enough to compress and absorb a lot of oil. Although recently I’ve started to use a wood called China berry, real opened grain and easy to compress but strong enough to really take a pounding without breaking. One oiled it has a deep red color that looks nice. Never used a metal wedge before. Oh and also after the axe is hung, I give the eye a generous squirt of some stuff called “Swell-lock”. It’s super absorbent to wood fibers and causes them to swell up and expand. It’s original use was to tighten up lose chair rungs. If you follow these steps I promise you’ll never have an axe head even think about coming lose.
interesting fact about gransfors is that they use a pneumatic press to press in the wooden wedge instead of hammering it by hand. So it really goes in there (mentioned in their axe booklet) In addition, I've read that they get the axe handle to a low moisture content before hanging, to make it less likely we run into the issue of dry winters causing loose axe heads. Makes alot of sense actually, so the axe handle is just super snug in the summer when the handle swells a bit rather than loose in the winter.
First time I've heard a discussion on tool wedges. It's usually overlooked. Interesting ending questions on an adjustable wedge and wedge grain direction.
My mother was a fine furniture maker. I asked her if wood grain matters. She said yes… modalus of elasticity, woods ability to resist bending, matters. She also said not to throw away bent wedges, Simply soak them in warm, 120 degree water, for about 45 minutes, wipe them off with a towel, set a book on it in a warm, dry place, like a box with a 60 watt incandescent lightbulb warming it, and the wedge will dry straight in a day or two. She also said use wedges of the same specie of wood as the handles because they expand and contract at the same rate, whereas different wedges from various species expand and contract so differently they will work themselves free and loosen much more rapidly. If you want an artful wedge then stain it with an oil based gel stain. So there you have it.
Great vid (dunno why I didn't say that before), covered the topic very well.Just rewatching this and caught your question on wedge grain. I'll use whichever but I've noticed problems that can happen with both directions and in both soft and hardwoods. With wedge grain parallel with the eye: the wedge can split along the grain and fold over, necessitating replacement. Also more likely to shear up the wedge sides when driven against the sharp edge of the kerf.With perpendicular grain: it can still split but at least you can ram down the sections with a metal punch. A good trick is to make sure your kerf is open enough, and chamfer the kerf edges. No glue, and I agree hultafors barrels are the go if you need some metal in there.
Thanks, I haven’t paid that much attention to grain in wedges at this point, but it seems more important than grain orientation in the handle to me. Need to pay more attention before I have something definitive to say.
Thanks very much for this it's exactly what I was looking for. I had never even heard of a barrel wedge until you've showed us this. I do have one question though. Is the reason you don't like the wide metal wedge because they do not expand with the wood and keep it tighter over the long term?
I have just started using the barrel wedge and really like the fit it gives. I also just received my first Killinger handle and the craftmanship is second to none.
Killer’s handles are the best I’ve had hands on. And I’m partial to barrel wedges, as you know, but yeah they squeeze the proud wood right over the top of the axe.
@@KevinsDisobedience yes and as you said it does crack the proud wood but in my experience not to the point of any sort of failure. Like you said if anything it opens things up so oil can get down in a bit better.
Even the guys who complain about it no it’s not a structural concern. It’s just aesthetics. I don’t build wall hangers, but if I did I obviously wouldn’t use one.
Ive only gotten one warped from you, and like I said it’s not a big deal. But I do think it’s bad practice, but I realize it’s convenient. And I also prefer to cut my own kerf, so that would be great! I promote your handles any chance I get. Love your brand!
2:30 I just love it, hilarious. Good Presentation with a lot of information, i also feel like the audio quality was noticably better in this one? Maybe because it was indoor? If i could add something, i would have liked to see you present what Manufacturers use as far as is known in the community. I mean how different "Philosophys" we can observe, from the gränsfors manufacturers that use as little as possible to the basque slipfit-hydraulic pressed, the basque racers with smashed in soft wood weges, the homemade "proper" way up to the German glued, pressed and stuffed with as many barrel wedges as possible-way. I really liked this video as is, very informative, funny, fluid script etc. As far as axe related content without chopping footage goes, this is one of my favorites.
Thanks Tobias. Yeah it could definitely use a follow up video. I have some other things I want to do first, but I will almost certainly revisit this subject.
Great topic. I like the wedge grain perpendicular to the handle grain. Got the impression that the handle wood molds somewhat into the wedge grain between the year rings, the year rings being a bit harder. Not sure if this is a real advantage, but seem better. Plus wedges sometimes split along the grain, allowing some parts of the wedge to be hammered in deeper if there is locally more room in the kerf, that’s probably also better. I have filed barrel wedges flatter at the sides if I felt there was less room sideways and more room to fill longitudinally. Not very scienticific, but tend to follow my gut feel here. Agree that barrel wedges rule, but often try to avoid steel wedges and only use them to tighten lose handles. I don’t drain the heads too much in linseed oil to avoid hardening all the wood inside the eye, which makes the later fitting of a steel wedge harder. And no glue indeed. I sometimes roughen the wedge sides with a rasp to prevent them popping out as can happen with hard wood wedges. No linseed oil on the wedge when hammering it in, that can also cause popping out.
Very good points. I think this type of discussion is good. A lot of us are holed up in our own little shops doing what we thinks best, but not really having any outside input. And like you, I kind work my way through it by intuition and feel. Each one is different.
Loved the bit about the old time wedges - I have a great collection of old 'wedges' here in Australia where I replace axe handles etc - nails, coins, all bits and pieces of metal and timber junk - its so funny - I'm keeping this collection for my kids to have a laugh at - not being judgmental about it though - had to use what was there at the time!
Nikola Tesla here, the reason they can't make a wedge like the one you want is because it would compromise the wedge, such as thinner material, cracking in the metal etc. Take care
I made wedges out of walnut with my bandsaw for the last five heads I hung. No glue... rather I soak the slot and the wedge with BLO. The BLO lubes the wedge going in and when it dries it's like glue. I haven't used metal wedges in quite a while. I think that technique works out because I let a good amount of the handle stand proud of the head. The part standing proud is mushroomed when I drive in the wooden wedge. I also make the wedges wide enough to completely fill the eye of the head. I've had no loose heads or wedges using this approach. Regarding the grain orientation of the wedges. I've found that flat sawn wedges work better. Every time I tried a quartersawn wedge it broke into pieces as I was banging it home. While this may seem obvious, also make sure that the grain of the wedge is running in the same direction as the length of the handle. Amazingly I've seen wedges that were sawn such that the grain was at a significant angle to the sides of the wedge... I found that they bust too. The notion of having a wedge bolt is interesting. Perhaps a bolt with a barrel nut would work? See examples of bed bolts with barrel nuts... Where to put the barrel nut would be the challenge. Within the head, just below the head, way below the head?? Would way below the head in a snug hole let the bolt act as a through bolt and strengthen the handle? Something for you to experiment with Kevin. 😉
You definitely don’t need a metal wedge to hang an axe tight the first time, but pick up any old axe that has been around and used for awhile, it’ll have metal in it for a reason. Overtime and hard use they all come loose sometime. The simplest fix is a metal wedge of some kind. But the key to a good axe hang is all in the wooden wedge. I would like to try this expanding wedge idea though. Seems like it could work. But either way, would be a cool experiment.
I make my own wedges and use occasionally ash or usually Osage orange. BUT I shape my wedges to fit to the bottom of the kerf and still get the compression I want. Wood glue always on the wedge never on the axe head, and metal wedges only on sledges or splitting mauls or hammers.
Glue definitely makes sense if you’re not going to use metal wedges, but it does cause trouble if you want to rewedge it later if the handle shrinks. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. I’ve only just begun to experiment. That’s my main message: keep on experimenting. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment.
I have a bunch of dry bamboo lying about and it makes for pretty good wedges; not primary wedges, but as a substitute for metal wedges. Eg. they can be used as cross wedges to hold in the primary wedge. They can be made in different sizes, but you should taper from the inside, as it is softer than the outer layer, i.e. easier to carve as well as less resistant to breaking. Also, on the topic of soft or hardwood wedge, I think the main thing is that you use a wedge that is a different hardness from the handle, be it harder (beech wedge in ash handle) or softer (pine wedge in hickory). If the hardness of the wedge is too similar to the handle, it tends to back out. There is a way to prevent that, though: insert a piece of thin cloth (eg. a piece of an old T-shirt) between the wedge and the handle before you pound it in, trim the excess.
Sorry never notified of your comment. I’ve never tried bamboo. Have you ever used one as a primary wedge? If I’m honest, I haven’t really noticed much of a difference in hard or soft wedges. And as far as backing out, I’ve had that issue once when I was hanging an axe, but as long as I can get it down either the glue or the metal wedge is going to keep it in. But if you don’t glue or use a metal wedge then it’s more important. Thanks for commenting.
@@KevinsDisobedience I haven't tried bamboo as a primary wedge for the sole reason that it is hard to get a straight piece wide enough for a typical axe eye. Even the most sizable bamboo will have too much of a bow. As for the other issue, I rarely use (secondary) metal wedges, only to fix slightly wobbly heads. However, I regularly do use glue. Yet, In the spirit of less is more, I frequently try setups without glue etc. Trying out how good of a hang I can achieve with the least fuss. I feel that approach gives me a lot of insight into what's really neccessary for a good hang. I know there's the "everything worth doing is worth overdoing"-faction, but I've seen too many burst axe eyes on the internet to be a fan of that.
I’m developing strategy to hang cool old axe head, no experience to speak of, and (my) common sense tells me - hardwood wedge, have some black walnut…what I couldn’t find so far is logic addressing both the wedge width and depth in relation to the Kerf. It makes sense that you’d want to seat the wedge as close as possible to the bottom of the cut, therefore reducing the amount of empty space there. So consequently I plan on making several wedges and measuring wedge vs Kerf depth so once the wedge is down and not moving-sinking anymore, I hopefully end up with minimal amount of air inside the eye. Thoughts anyone?
The tightening wedge idea is not bad at all, maybe a concrete anchor would do the trick? Sure it has a hex screw on top of it, but that could be further improved later.
Hey. Another question if I may: I have spacing up in the eye after I put in the wedge (a few months ago). There is no play, the head isn’t loose at all, but I wanted to put in a barrel wedge to close up the spaces. The problem is that I can’t get the wedge more than half way in… what should I do? Maybe wait till the winter for it to shrink a bit and then put in the barrel wedge?
You probably need a smaller barrel. If it won’t go in that’s because it’s already tight in the eye. You could try waiting. You could also try soaking the eye in linseed oil to soften it up a bit. But probably just need a smaller wedge.
@@KevinsDisobedience I have problems with wedges. If I don’t use glue they always work themselves out. I also struggle to get them in due to the tightness of the hang. In regards to wedge wood I like ash and oak. I find really hard wood the best. I also chamfer the edge before knocking it in. I used a bit of fat wood for a wedge once
If you use a metal wedge on top there’s no way the wedge will ever come out. And yeah, that’s one of the down sides of hardwood, they don’t mash in as easy and you need to spend more time fitting them to the kerf because there’s no forgiveness. Owen’s most recent vid is a good example. Wedge too fat for the kerf, so it won’t go all the way in, and it’ll definitely work itself out and loosen in time without glue or metal wedge. I’ve really come to prefer medium hard woods. Kinda best of both worlds. I’ll send you some.
Thoughts about your barrel wedge improvement, sounds like a wall anchor, maybe try one of the metal ones so you can give it a couple extra twists in the winter.
Basically the same idea. The wall anchor will just go in further, but I will try that I think. I was just hoping for something that would expand when you turned it so that it would expand outwards against the walls of the eye.
Thanks, trying to tighten a bargain hatchet it came with a tiny wiggle and first time using it the head is almost halfway off. I've got two barrel wedges and very little to lose before I rehandle entirely.
Bashed the head till the handle barely came above the eye, used two barrel wedges and chopped away at the same hardwood that almost knocked the head off. Now it's super tight and ready for action😊
Do you mean best saw to cut the kerf? If so I prefer Japanese pole saws, but a band saw with a taught blade works well too. Just pop a mirror behind the blade so that you can make sure the kerf stays straight. And if you mean which saw to cut the top of the eye flush with the eye, I would definitely recommend the pole saws as they are flexible. Hope that helps.
Just the video I was looking for on a Saturday night. Definitely a niche/obscure topic as far as I'm aware. Thanks for the learning! edit: 13:20 mark, what is it you're wanting to wick down the cracks? sounded like you said BLL but I have no idea what that is. Can you explain further? thanks
Definitely niche. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment. BLO is short for Boiled Linseed Oil. It’s a good treatment for wooden hand,es because it seals the pores, but also puffs them up a bit, consequently tightening the head. Hope you decide to stick around and come along for the ride. Thanks again.
I make my own handles and wedges. I’ve had a fair amount of failures. I make Hickory, Oak and Ash handles. My opinion is grain is important and any flaw in the wedge will make it hard to get that wedge in its place. I have also laminated wedges much like yours with success.
I’ve found that with hardwood wedges you really have to shape it just right, otherwise it wants to pop out or slip in too easily without spreading wood much. It makes sense that a standard thick wedge made of poplar was the old timers go-to. Hard to mess up. Just rough fit and mash it in, pop in a step wedge and get back to work.
I thought of that as an example too. I looked around my shop for one but sadly didn’t have any to take a pic of. I hadn’t thought of AvE. Do you need drawing or something? I never learned CAD programs.
I may do. Good idea about cone-shaped wedge. I took four years of drafting in high school, but I preferred hand drawing on the boards and the teacher never pushed me to learn comp skills which I wasn’t keen on.
Very interesting video. You've really looked into this deeply. I am not sure why you wrote off the tapered wood wedge so easily. It's the same principle as a metal barrel wedge only the material is different. P, if you ever need to, it's much easier to get the wood tapered wedge out as opposed to the metal barrel wedge. Thanks for making these great videos.
Thanks, I definitely don’t mean to sound like I’ve dismissed the wooden wedge. It’s essential obviously. You can do without the metal but you can’t do without the wood. That said, wood shrinks and metal doesn’t (not noticeably anyway), so I’m a big fan of pre-shrinking the wood as much as possible before hanging it. I keep my handles by a dehumidifier for at least a year before hanging them, and ideally I like to hang users in the winter when the wood is the smallest. But obviously you have to hang an axe when you have to hang it. Thanks for watching, mate. I’m still learning. Just like the rest of us.
@@KevinsDisobedience - I didn't mean that you dismissed the flat wooden wedge I meant the round conical shaped wooden wedge. What's your opinion of them.
I started making my own wedges and like them a lot better than from hardware store. Also, the wedges at my stores are $7. Unbelievable. I do like poplar, but I have a bunch of white oak so I use that. They don’t tend to crack like you mentioned and the cracking doesn’t so much bother me for functionality but I can always see the crack even after finishing the axe head, and that bugs me. Great video on the subject, you’ve got a great system for storing those wedges
$7! Damn! That was a white pine I broke, I believe. I’ve used plenty of poplar wedges too. Nothing wrong with em. I don’t mind that cracking when they go in. Sometimes it allows you to get some of it in further.
could get a barrel wedge that expands horizontally like some fancy arrow broadhead tips... Also why not get fully customized barrel wedges that aren't circular, but more oblong and/or follow the perimeter of the eye itself.
I like the oblong idea. The real issue is that no matter what you do the handle will shrink just a little over time, and you can only fit so much metal in the eye, so it would be nice to just tighten the metal already in the eye.
I'm very new, and just about to try hanging a hatchet myself. Just some "fresh eyes" thoughts here. I think the type of wood may not matter, asa hard wood wont compress as much as a soft wood, but it is more dense. So it is possible that either way, you can hammer the same amount of grain inside overall. Also how the woods handle moisture would be my concern, I'd rather the handle and wedge take blo and moisture in similar ways, in our to evenly distribute stress throughout the seasons and use. Also, maybe if you can get the wood glue in the pores, then it should add some more years to the axe head... but yeah i think the barrel wedge is most important
The plumb take up wedge..(screw Wedge) was a great design and I think could work inside a modified barrel wedge to adjust the expansion like the design you were inventing.. this was a great discussion because there is no "right" way..
I’ve never seen one. Sure wish I could get my hands on one. Thanks, I hope my vids come off that way. I’m just relating what I’ve learned and how I do things. I never want to sound preachy, unless it’s meant to be a joke.
I don't think wood type matters, but harder wedges are less forgiving and therefore must be sized properly. I've used hickory, walnut, maple, cherry, etc. They all work. I get solid hangs on all but my old H. Werk maul, which has the small, almost round eye.
I pretty much agree. And that’s a good point about hardwood wedges being less forgiving. I’m not so interested in the original hang. It’s 6-12 months down the line that’s got me experimenting.
Man that's a very good idea like a diegrinder collar... I've actually got a couple spares. But for me it's about ascetic... i like making things look pretty as well as functional. But I don't make my living with a axe and don't actually chop nearly as much as a lot of people do . Lol I like carving handles... but this video was very informative... thanks.
I recently started using empty shell cases on my hatchets. .30 carbine and .357 magnum seem to work best. Bang them in until about 1/4" is protruding and saw the end off flush.
Good Video- You mentioned that those barrel wedges are readily available- I've been looking all night for someone that carries them - other than Amazon- without success. Where do you buy yours from?
They have gotten a bit difficult to track down recently. Amazon has some a believe, but they’re not the really good ones. The ones I really like are Hultafors or Oxhead. Try this site. www.kctool.com/picard-370-1-round-wedge/?gclid=CjwKCAjw2rmWBhB4EiwAiJ0mtYFmlDGmXw3VpGEuGtu4KtBCBzobHIoPyqRkZudZ5Sfgh-BC1y19HRoCDZ8QAvD_BwE It’s KC Tools. I’ve bought from them in the past. They seem to be more popular in Europe.
@@KevinsDisobedience Just an update I just completed my order with KC Tools- seems like a great place- I want to thank you again for replying to my comment- it was a huge help!
I am making an oak handle for a hatchet and I think I am going to a wedge made from the same piece of wood I used for the handle but I might make the wedge from 90 year oldish southern red pine. I am also going to use glue.Because I live in a high humidity environment, I don't think I will use a metal wedge yet because if the head gets loose, then I will insert a metal wedge. I have heard other guys say to do that.
Thank you so much Kev. I'm sort of a newbie in this community. I'm making walking stick/canes that are pretty much self defense fighting sticks for getting around, striving urban living - I'm in Chicago. I've made a few walking canes with Ball Pean hammer steel cane handles - just carved to fit and then guerrilla glue. They start to loosen, wobble after some use. Yeah, the nail, screw thing didn't work. I'll try some of your wedge suggestions. I'm considering making a walking cane/fighting cane with an axe head for the cane handle. Can you provide some links to your favorite online places to buy these wedges? Thanks Kevin Merry Christmas 2023 Chicago, USA
Nice video, but in my area i cant find barell wedges....in fact, there are no metal wedges at all; do you think i could use a small pipe as a metal wedge?
@@KevinsDisobedience Hmm...thanks man for the quick reply...ill give it a try ! I was thinking about making them from square solid steel with an angle grinder and drilling in the middle... What do you think about putting wedges on the side of the eye of the ax?
Well I have solved the problème I use mostly socket axes 😎 keep your wedge! Intresting personaly I usualy do my wedge in the wood I have around (often the left over from the handle making), dry or not, if it get lose I juste make a new one and bang it in. I use metal wedge but not that often, and mostly step wedges. For me my handles getting lose from shrinking is a summer probleme more then a winter one.
Thanks for the input. I think it’s an open discussion, really. Definitely don’t be afraid to experiment, that’s my main advice. People swear by one thing when they’ve never tried the other. Interesting you have an issue in the summer when the wood pores should be filled up with moisture. Do you live in a really dry climate?
@@KevinsDisobedience I live in the top half of France. in région were there is usualy a lot of humidity but in the last 3/4 years the summer are getting hoter and hoter. Some of my axe are stord in my van other in my workshop and in both I have some handle getting some play, usualy it start at the end of june until mid septembre.
That’s interesting. I never have issues in the summer. It’s always the dead of winter. I thought that was the norm, given the lack of humidity in the air, but I’ll have to ask around some more. Thanks for sharing the info. This is how we can build real knowledge as a community.
@@KevinsDisobedience I know I use to work in a swamp region so there was still a lot of humidity even in winter, but that wasn't the case last year, and I don't remember have axe getting lose in the winter but I do this summer.
Keep the grain running straight in line with length of the shalf. It will be much stronger when driving in. Grain running across the axe will bend & break very easy when driving in. You would see it compressing as you hit it.
The Sami people use only a wood wedge but they smear it in ash from the fire. This prevents it from slipping and also provides easy removal of the wedge should you need to do so.
Do you always need a wooden wedge, or can you just use barrel wedges? I'm trying to restore an axe and there is no slot in the handle. So that's why I'm asking
You need to cut a kerf for the wooden wedge. You don’t always need metal wedges, but you always need a wooden wedge, unless it’s a slipfit, but that’s a different style.
I’d love to see one. Anyone got pics? I guess they didn’t work or didn’t catch on. Just seems like it would be the ticket. Also, Killer you’ve seen a lot more vintage axes than I have. Am I missing any major types of wedges in my collection?
@@KevinsDisobedience thanks. Another question if I may: I have spacing up in the eye after I put in the wedge (a few months ago). There is no play, the head isn’t loose at all, but I wanted to put in a barrel wedge to close up the spaces. The problem is that I can’t get the wedge more than half way in… what should I do? Maybe wait till the winter for it to shrink a bit and then put in the barrel wedge?
Not sure how you consider Osage a softer wood. It's very hard per the Janka scale. Sycamore is very soft. It sounds like you have that backwards in your comparison.
This really has nothing to do with this video and I know it's an old video but, do you know of any good resources that explain convex edge vs flat grind? When you would want one over the other etc.
There’s a lot out there on the internet about that. To be honest, I don’t think it matters much. But Ben Scott has a good video on axe geometry and what different grinds are good for. I don’t remember the name of the vid, but I’m sure if you search his name with axe grinds it’ll come up. Also I just made a sharpening video on how to setup an axe to make it chop. I also have an older one. My very first one actually.
@@KevinsDisobedience thanks! I'd never heard of Ben Scott yet, now I have another channel to binge. Been binging yours and vintage axe hoarder for days now. I watched your most recent sharpening video right after making this comment and kinda answered my own question haha.
I try not to use metal wedges at all and hope for the best. I do try to orientate the grain of the wedge opposite of the handle just cause it looks cool. By the way this would've been a good video to bring out some Beavis and Butthead!
Whenever I intend to split wood or accidentally crack/split wood metal is ALWAYS involved being driven into wood. Only metal I believe belongs on an ax is the ax head itself.
You means you’ve split a handle with a metal wedge? I’ve never had an issue. But to each his own. Many ways to tighten up a loose axe, but nothing as quick as a metal wedge.
I hate to ask for a favor, but any chance you can share a link? I’ve used many different kinds of drywall anchors, and the screw type is similar to the old Plumb Takeup wedge, but I’d like the bottom to expand as you tighten it. Thanks
Others have said that. It’s not quite what I have in mind, but neat to see someone else has thought of it. Not surprised it was Plumb. They were definitely the most innovative.
The one time I tried to use a hardwood wedge it just kept popping back out after every hammer strike. I had to abandon and move on to the softwood. But this video came out at a timely manner as I had two axe heads come loose last week because I took them out chopping in the cold weather. Metal wedges to the rescue. p.s. please stop your Connecticut teasing.
That’s the problem with real hard woods. You have to spend a lot more time shaping them and finessing them to the kerf. That’s why I prefer middling softwoods as I showed. They don’t break easy and will still conform the the eye. As for the loose axes, bang the handle off the concrete first. It will mostly likely seat down some more, unless you’ve got a large transition which you want to avoid, and then apply your metal wedges.
And I promise I’ll do the Connie soon. I’ve got really bad case of tennis elbow in both arms from work, so I can’t chop atm. And it seems a little silly to just talk theory and not do any chopping.
How you have been. in my country is not to easy to find wedges even in metal or wood, I have to made by myself, and I have to go with the carpenters and bought some good wood and we select proper wood. The trouble of the eye of my axe is small and the other side is to open, how to fill the rest. Now I made q new handle by myself Is look good the trouble is the eye
I’m fine, thank you. How are you? It’s unfortunate that you can’t buy wedges, but then they aren’t terribly hard to make. What wood do you prefer for wedges? Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment. Hope you decide to sub and stick around. Thanks
For sure. The cracking doesn’t bother me, but if you want the wedge deeper in the eye you can always set it in further with another wedge. I do that sometimes to tighten a loose head.
I literally said like a concrete anchor. I’m well aware. I’ve finished concrete since high school. You have to drill out material to make a concrete anchor work. I don’t want to remove material. I want to insert a metal wedge into the wood that I can then tighten.
So a metal wedge with a flat top to replace the wooden wedge, drill a hole down the axe handle to acept a bolt then a 90°hole further down that slides the barrel nut in similar to fixing cheap furniture that then pulls the wedge further into the handle 🤷
@@KevinsDisobedience maybe even a steel wedge with a hole in and then threaded bar resined into the axe handle to then tighten and pull the wedge further down
The last wedge part sounds like you want something like a metal bolt fixing for bricks, that should be theoretical ne easy to do, for some people or even use some of this bolt fixings for that. 🤔
What about hollow wall anchors like they use in cinder block walls! But you would destroy the handle if you ever wanted to pull that out! It would be a cut and drill out!😂😂😂
Hahaha. But seriously, have you ever seen a head fly off when chopping? When I was growing up, we had a splitting maul that was so loose it would easily move up and down on the haft, but no matter what I did I couldn’t get it to come off. That’s my experience with axes. They easily come loose, but rarely loose enough to make it easy to take off.
@@KevinsDisobedience I have seen a metal Molly that would work in an axe handle , the ones I know of are used for securing things to concrete , but i do think something can be easily made with a metal lathe , a tap and a cut off wheel
@@KevinsDisobedience Well, that one is not exterior rated but I would still say that it's the best elmers/white glue/wood glue out there. I have done my own tests on this.
You lost me at "I have no idea what the janka scale is for these woods...." Osage Orange is one of the hardest woods available on the North American continent, 4 times harder than sycamore or elm and twice as hard as beech. Only thing I can think of that's harder is Ironwood, which is less commonly available.
Haha the wedge you're dreaming of might just be...a concrete anchor! Anyways, great video; I learnt something and I got to laugh.
Very similar to that concept, right. Than,s for watching. Hope you decide to stick around.
@@KevinsDisobedience Subscribed! ;)
Also, regarding grain direction in the wedge, I think it would matter because wood expands and contracts more in certain grain directions. Same thing would apply with your softwood wedges having thicker rings, thicker rings will expand and contact more than tighter grain.
That’s probably the best explanation I’ve heard so far. I’ll be honest I typically just pick a wedge that looks like it’s already close to fitting in the kerf in both directions and go from there, but perhaps I ought to give it some more thought. Thanks for commenting, Kenneth. I hope you decide to sub and stick around. Appreciate you.
Good one Kev. I think the hardwood/softwood debate is kinda funny. I believe you should match the wedge material to compliment the handle material.
I use a different wedge depending if the handle is Ash, Hickory, Birch, Red Elm, Osage, etc. Generally I use a harder wood wedge on softer wood handles and a softer wedge on harder handles.
Certain woods work well together and give exellent compression and a mechanical lock if they compliment each other in the right way.
The best example I have found of this is a Yellow Birch wedge on a White Ash handle. Beautiful compression and the grain of the two woods tend to marry each other and lock in hard.
I personally dislike adding a metal wedge to a virgin hang. If the wood wedge isn't secure enough, then you are doing it wrong IMO, but I understand someone adding one as extra security(belt AND suspenders)
Also, I think its far too common for most in the community to pay so much attention to their compression at the top and and not enough attention gaining that same compression at the bottom of the eye. The wedge can really only act on the top 2/3, the bottom 1/3 of the eye often doesn't get the attention it needs, especially by those more concerned with the beauty of their hang and not the function.
Just my $0.02, keep up the content brother!
I pretty much agree with you, only I’m not as confident I know what is going on with different woods and grains inside the eye over time. But I agree the debate should move from hard vs soft to more of an intuitive decision when hanging an axe. Each one is different. And anyone who’s hung a couple axes (or even just one) should be able to keep an axe tight with just a wooden wedge. I’m not interested in hanging it tight, but not having to bother with it a year down the road. I won’t put up with even a little winter wiggle. I’d bet I could go through almost anybody’s axe collection and bang them on the concrete and find at least one, especially during the cold months, with evidence that the head seated further down on the shoulder (or bounced on a bad transition). Enter barrel wedge. But as you point out, it’s about a perfect fit all the way through. I know it’s scoffed at, but that’s why I’m a gap guy. I don’t want to see them. I’ve always thought it would be really cool if someone could mold a clear plastic axe head, something you could bang around that wouldn’t break. Then we could could really see what it looks like inside the eye under compression. Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts. I enjoy rational discussion. I don’t enjoy and don’t engage with: idiot soft wood is so obviously the best. Thanks
I like Black Walnut, it's hard enough to take a good whacking, looks great w/ Hickory, steel not required.
You mention wood shrinking and expanding throughout different seasons. That’s absolutely true, however my process for dealing with this is right before I hang the axe head, I heat up a pot of sand on top of the wood stove and warm a small cup of linseed oil. I bury the top of the axe handle, the wedge, and bury the axe head eye in the sand (keep the edge out of the sand) for about 5-10 minutes, not long enough to burn it or crack it, just long enough to make sure everything is pretty hot and the top of handle and wedge is DRY as a bone. Then quickly, (you have to move fast) I remove the handle and while it’s still hot, put the axe head over the handle and hammer the bottom of the axe handle with a dead blow hammer to seat it as far as it’ll go, next I pour warm linseed oil in the eye over (imagine the eye being a cup, before you put the wedge In just fill up the cup), after that I dip the wedge in the warm linseed oil as well and hammer away, as far it’ll go, I start with a dead blow or wooden mallet, but as it goes further and further I’ll use a small metal sledge, it doesn’t matter if the wedge cracks although it usually doesn’t. Then I wipe the axe handle down with linseed but I wait about an hour before wiping any of the oil off the eye of the axe. I let it soak and absorb. Never once had an axe head even think about coming loose and even the ones I keep by the stove in the winter. My though being that if you make sure the axe is as dry as it’ll ever be when you hang it there’s no way it can dry out and come lose later down the line. I also tend to use walnut wedges as the look nice but are also soft enough to compress and absorb a lot of oil. Although recently I’ve started to use a wood called China berry, real opened grain and easy to compress but strong enough to really take a pounding without breaking. One oiled it has a deep red color that looks nice. Never used a metal wedge before. Oh and also after the axe is hung, I give the eye a generous squirt of some stuff called “Swell-lock”. It’s super absorbent to wood fibers and causes them to swell up and expand. It’s original use was to tighten up lose chair rungs. If you follow these steps I promise you’ll never have an axe head even think about coming lose.
interesting fact about gransfors is that they use a pneumatic press to press in the wooden wedge instead of hammering it by hand. So it really goes in there (mentioned in their axe booklet)
In addition, I've read that they get the axe handle to a low moisture content before hanging, to make it less likely we run into the issue of dry winters causing loose axe heads. Makes alot of sense actually, so the axe handle is just super snug in the summer when the handle swells a bit rather than loose in the winter.
Yeah, I’ve had heads mostly come loose in the winter. Thanks for commenting, man.
Yes the handle is also put in with a press which of course most of us can't do!
@@oilburner8548, I could just see one of us trying to use a hydraulic press to seat a wedge. Oops, too much!
First time I've heard a discussion on tool wedges. It's usually overlooked.
Interesting ending questions on an adjustable wedge and wedge grain direction.
Excellent video! Very in-depth and comprehensive. Thanks
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it.
My mother was a fine furniture maker. I asked her if wood grain matters. She said yes… modalus of elasticity, woods ability to resist bending, matters. She also said not to throw away bent wedges, Simply soak them in warm, 120 degree water, for about 45 minutes, wipe them off with a towel, set a book on it in a warm, dry place, like a box with a 60 watt incandescent lightbulb warming it, and the wedge will dry straight in a day or two. She also said use wedges of the same specie of wood as the handles because they expand and contract at the same rate, whereas different wedges from various species expand and contract so differently they will work themselves free and loosen much more rapidly. If you want an artful wedge then stain it with an oil based gel stain. So there you have it.
Dude. Great video. Lots of knowledge. Exactly what I was looking for. You explained everything. Thanks
I’m glad it helped. Lots more axe stuff on the channel if you decided to stick around. Thanks
Cool kit of wedges! Thanks for the valuable info also.
Thanks man, have a good day.
Great vid (dunno why I didn't say that before), covered the topic very well.Just rewatching this and caught your question on wedge grain. I'll use whichever but I've noticed problems that can happen with both directions and in both soft and hardwoods. With wedge grain parallel with the eye: the wedge can split along the grain and fold over, necessitating replacement. Also more likely to shear up the wedge sides when driven against the sharp edge of the kerf.With perpendicular grain: it can still split but at least you can ram down the sections with a metal punch. A good trick is to make sure your kerf is open enough, and chamfer the kerf edges. No glue, and I agree hultafors barrels are the go if you need some metal in there.
Thanks, I haven’t paid that much attention to grain in wedges at this point, but it seems more important than grain orientation in the handle to me. Need to pay more attention before I have something definitive to say.
Thanks very much for this it's exactly what I was looking for. I had never even heard of a barrel wedge until you've showed us this.
I do have one question though. Is the reason you don't like the wide metal wedge because they do not expand with the wood and keep it tighter over the long term?
I have just started using the barrel wedge and really like the fit it gives. I also just received my first Killinger handle and the craftmanship is second to none.
Killer’s handles are the best I’ve had hands on. And I’m partial to barrel wedges, as you know, but yeah they squeeze the proud wood right over the top of the axe.
@@KevinsDisobedience yes and as you said it does crack the proud wood but in my experience not to the point of any sort of failure. Like you said if anything it opens things up so oil can get down in a bit better.
Even the guys who complain about it no it’s not a structural concern. It’s just aesthetics. I don’t build wall hangers, but if I did I obviously wouldn’t use one.
Theoretically you could use a screw along with one of those wall anchors that expands out as you tighten the screw down.
Excellent, thank you for showing this
Thank you for watching.
"It needed 2" lol, savage
I still think you need to do a parody video on GB.
@@KevinsDisobedience hahaha yes man
I'm actually working with my supplier to not only not wrap the wedge to the handle, but to also not cut the kerf. Great video
I've not seen a warped wedge from those. Guess I've been either lucky or unobservant 😉
Ya one wedge I got was warped and broken..not a big deal because I didnt know they came with wedges..and almost always cut my own anyhow.
Ive only gotten one warped from you, and like I said it’s not a big deal. But I do think it’s bad practice, but I realize it’s convenient. And I also prefer to cut my own kerf, so that would be great! I promote your handles any chance I get. Love your brand!
2:30
I just love it, hilarious. Good Presentation with a lot of information, i also feel like the audio quality was noticably better in this one? Maybe because it was indoor? If i could add something, i would have liked to see you present what Manufacturers use as far as is known in the community. I mean how different "Philosophys" we can observe, from the gränsfors manufacturers that use as little as possible to the basque slipfit-hydraulic pressed, the basque racers with smashed in soft wood weges, the homemade "proper" way up to the German glued, pressed and stuffed with as many barrel wedges as possible-way.
I really liked this video as is, very informative, funny, fluid script etc. As far as axe related content without chopping footage goes, this is one of my favorites.
Thanks Tobias. Yeah it could definitely use a follow up video. I have some other things I want to do first, but I will almost certainly revisit this subject.
I used my log splitter to press in a round wedge into a 20" hatchet handle. Sweet. It goes to 28" so an axe next time.
Great topic.
I like the wedge grain perpendicular to the handle grain. Got the impression that the handle wood molds somewhat into the wedge grain between the year rings, the year rings being a bit harder. Not sure if this is a real advantage, but seem better.
Plus wedges sometimes split along the grain, allowing some parts of the wedge to be hammered in deeper if there is locally more room in the kerf, that’s probably also better.
I have filed barrel wedges flatter at the sides if I felt there was less room sideways and more room to fill longitudinally. Not very scienticific, but tend to follow my gut feel here.
Agree that barrel wedges rule, but often try to avoid steel wedges and only use them to tighten lose handles. I don’t drain the heads too much in linseed oil to avoid hardening all the wood inside the eye, which makes the later fitting of a steel wedge harder.
And no glue indeed. I sometimes roughen the wedge sides with a rasp to prevent them popping out as can happen with hard wood wedges. No linseed oil on the wedge when hammering it in, that can also cause popping out.
Very good points. I think this type of discussion is good. A lot of us are holed up in our own little shops doing what we thinks best, but not really having any outside input. And like you, I kind work my way through it by intuition and feel. Each one is different.
Loved the bit about the old time wedges - I have a great collection of old 'wedges' here in Australia where I replace axe handles etc - nails, coins, all bits and pieces of metal and timber junk - its so funny - I'm keeping this collection for my kids to have a laugh at - not being judgmental about it though - had to use what was there at the time!
It is fun to see what the old timers used to tighten up their axes, but like you said you had to use what you had to use lol.
Nikola Tesla here, the reason they can't make a wedge like the one you want is because it would compromise the wedge, such as thinner material, cracking in the metal etc. Take care
Thanks
I made wedges out of walnut with my bandsaw for the last five heads I hung. No glue... rather I soak the slot and the wedge with BLO. The BLO lubes the wedge going in and when it dries it's like glue. I haven't used metal wedges in quite a while. I think that technique works out because I let a good amount of the handle stand proud of the head. The part standing proud is mushroomed when I drive in the wooden wedge. I also make the wedges wide enough to completely fill the eye of the head. I've had no loose heads or wedges using this approach.
Regarding the grain orientation of the wedges. I've found that flat sawn wedges work better. Every time I tried a quartersawn wedge it broke into pieces as I was banging it home. While this may seem obvious, also make sure that the grain of the wedge is running in the same direction as the length of the handle. Amazingly I've seen wedges that were sawn such that the grain was at a significant angle to the sides of the wedge... I found that they bust too.
The notion of having a wedge bolt is interesting. Perhaps a bolt with a barrel nut would work? See examples of bed bolts with barrel nuts... Where to put the barrel nut would be the challenge. Within the head, just below the head, way below the head?? Would way below the head in a snug hole let the bolt act as a through bolt and strengthen the handle? Something for you to experiment with Kevin. 😉
You definitely don’t need a metal wedge to hang an axe tight the first time, but pick up any old axe that has been around and used for awhile, it’ll have metal in it for a reason. Overtime and hard use they all come loose sometime. The simplest fix is a metal wedge of some kind. But the key to a good axe hang is all in the wooden wedge. I would like to try this expanding wedge idea though. Seems like it could work. But either way, would be a cool experiment.
@@MrMZaccone Boiled linseed oil!
I make my own wedges and use occasionally ash or usually Osage orange. BUT I shape my wedges to fit to the bottom of the kerf and still get the compression I want. Wood glue always on the wedge never on the axe head, and metal wedges only on sledges or splitting mauls or hammers.
Glue definitely makes sense if you’re not going to use metal wedges, but it does cause trouble if you want to rewedge it later if the handle shrinks. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. I’ve only just begun to experiment. That’s my main message: keep on experimenting. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment.
I have a bunch of dry bamboo lying about and it makes for pretty good wedges; not primary wedges, but as a substitute for metal wedges. Eg. they can be used as cross wedges to hold in the primary wedge. They can be made in different sizes, but you should taper from the inside, as it is softer than the outer layer, i.e. easier to carve as well as less resistant to breaking.
Also, on the topic of soft or hardwood wedge, I think the main thing is that you use a wedge that is a different hardness from the handle, be it harder (beech wedge in ash handle) or softer (pine wedge in hickory). If the hardness of the wedge is too similar to the handle, it tends to back out. There is a way to prevent that, though: insert a piece of thin cloth (eg. a piece of an old T-shirt) between the wedge and the handle before you pound it in, trim the excess.
Sorry never notified of your comment. I’ve never tried bamboo. Have you ever used one as a primary wedge? If I’m honest, I haven’t really noticed much of a difference in hard or soft wedges. And as far as backing out, I’ve had that issue once when I was hanging an axe, but as long as I can get it down either the glue or the metal wedge is going to keep it in. But if you don’t glue or use a metal wedge then it’s more important. Thanks for commenting.
@@KevinsDisobedience I haven't tried bamboo as a primary wedge for the sole reason that it is hard to get a straight piece wide enough for a typical axe eye. Even the most sizable bamboo will have too much of a bow.
As for the other issue, I rarely use (secondary) metal wedges, only to fix slightly wobbly heads. However, I regularly do use glue. Yet, In the spirit of less is more, I frequently try setups without glue etc. Trying out how good of a hang I can achieve with the least fuss. I feel that approach gives me a lot of insight into what's really neccessary for a good hang.
I know there's the "everything worth doing is worth overdoing"-faction, but I've seen too many burst axe eyes on the internet to be a fan of that.
Hahaha...I hadn’t even thought of that. Bamboo doesn’t grow around here, but of course I should know that it doesn’t get that big around.
I’m developing strategy to hang cool old axe head, no experience to speak of, and (my) common sense tells me - hardwood wedge, have some black walnut…what I couldn’t find so far is logic addressing both the wedge width and depth in relation to the Kerf. It makes sense that you’d want to seat the wedge as close as possible to the bottom of the cut, therefore reducing the amount of empty space there.
So consequently I plan on making several wedges and measuring wedge vs Kerf depth so once the wedge is down and not moving-sinking anymore, I hopefully end up with minimal amount of air inside the eye.
Thoughts anyone?
Great video Kev!!!
Thank you. I do my best.
The tightening wedge idea is not bad at all, maybe a concrete anchor would do the trick? Sure it has a hex screw on top of it, but that could be further improved later.
Hey. Another question if I may: I have spacing up in the eye after I put in the wedge (a few months ago). There is no play, the head isn’t loose at all, but I wanted to put in a barrel wedge to close up the spaces. The problem is that I can’t get the wedge more than half way in… what should I do? Maybe wait till the winter for it to shrink a bit and then put in the barrel wedge?
You probably need a smaller barrel. If it won’t go in that’s because it’s already tight in the eye. You could try waiting. You could also try soaking the eye in linseed oil to soften it up a bit. But probably just need a smaller wedge.
Awesome! Professional as. Must of missed this video some how
Missed your response too. Do you only get notified of comments the first two days? Also what’s your preference on wedges?
@@KevinsDisobedience I have problems with wedges. If I don’t use glue they always work themselves out. I also struggle to get them in due to the tightness of the hang. In regards to wedge wood I like ash and oak. I find really hard wood the best. I also chamfer the edge before knocking it in. I used a bit of fat wood for a wedge once
If you use a metal wedge on top there’s no way the wedge will ever come out. And yeah, that’s one of the down sides of hardwood, they don’t mash in as easy and you need to spend more time fitting them to the kerf because there’s no forgiveness. Owen’s most recent vid is a good example. Wedge too fat for the kerf, so it won’t go all the way in, and it’ll definitely work itself out and loosen in time without glue or metal wedge. I’ve really come to prefer medium hard woods. Kinda best of both worlds. I’ll send you some.
Thoughts about your barrel wedge improvement, sounds like a wall anchor, maybe try one of the metal ones so you can give it a couple extra twists in the winter.
Basically the same idea. The wall anchor will just go in further, but I will try that I think. I was just hoping for something that would expand when you turned it so that it would expand outwards against the walls of the eye.
Thanks, trying to tighten a bargain hatchet it came with a tiny wiggle and first time using it the head is almost halfway off. I've got two barrel wedges and very little to lose before I rehandle entirely.
Crack it on the concrete a few times and wack in the barrel wedges it’ll hold for a long time.
Bashed the head till the handle barely came above the eye, used two barrel wedges and chopped away at the same hardwood that almost knocked the head off. Now it's super tight and ready for action😊
What’s the best saw to flush out and finish the wedge? For the finishing touch
Do you mean best saw to cut the kerf? If so I prefer Japanese pole saws, but a band saw with a taught blade works well too. Just pop a mirror behind the blade so that you can make sure the kerf stays straight. And if you mean which saw to cut the top of the eye flush with the eye, I would definitely recommend the pole saws as they are flexible. Hope that helps.
Just the video I was looking for on a Saturday night. Definitely a niche/obscure topic as far as I'm aware. Thanks for the learning! edit: 13:20 mark, what is it you're wanting to wick down the cracks? sounded like you said BLL but I have no idea what that is. Can you explain further? thanks
Definitely niche. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment. BLO is short for Boiled Linseed Oil. It’s a good treatment for wooden hand,es because it seals the pores, but also puffs them up a bit, consequently tightening the head. Hope you decide to stick around and come along for the ride. Thanks again.
@@KevinsDisobedience thank you very much fine sir! I'll look into that further and you have a new subscriber.
I make my own handles and wedges. I’ve had a fair amount of failures. I make Hickory, Oak and Ash handles. My opinion is grain is important and any flaw in the wedge will make it hard to get that wedge in its place. I have also laminated wedges much like yours with success.
I’ve found that with hardwood wedges you really have to shape it just right, otherwise it wants to pop out or slip in too easily without spreading wood much. It makes sense that a standard thick wedge made of poplar was the old timers go-to. Hard to mess up. Just rough fit and mash it in, pop in a step wedge and get back to work.
Like an inverted lead concrete anchor? If you made the screw conical instead of cylindrical that might help. Does AVE still do the town pump CNC work?
I thought of that as an example too. I looked around my shop for one but sadly didn’t have any to take a pic of. I hadn’t thought of AvE. Do you need drawing or something? I never learned CAD programs.
@@KevinsDisobedience I'd say reach out to him. CAD (at least AutoCAD) isn't hard to learn if you're familiar with mechanical drawing.
I may do. Good idea about cone-shaped wedge. I took four years of drafting in high school, but I preferred hand drawing on the boards and the teacher never pushed me to learn comp skills which I wasn’t keen on.
LOTS of GREAT information!! What is your source for your wedges?
I mostly get them from Thrane.
Very interesting video. You've really looked into this deeply. I am not sure why you wrote off the tapered wood wedge so easily. It's the same principle as a metal barrel wedge only the material is different. P, if you ever need to, it's much easier to get the wood tapered wedge out as opposed to the metal barrel wedge.
Thanks for making these great videos.
Thanks, I definitely don’t mean to sound like I’ve dismissed the wooden wedge. It’s essential obviously. You can do without the metal but you can’t do without the wood. That said, wood shrinks and metal doesn’t (not noticeably anyway), so I’m a big fan of pre-shrinking the wood as much as possible before hanging it. I keep my handles by a dehumidifier for at least a year before hanging them, and ideally I like to hang users in the winter when the wood is the smallest. But obviously you have to hang an axe when you have to hang it. Thanks for watching, mate. I’m still learning. Just like the rest of us.
@@KevinsDisobedience - I didn't mean that you dismissed the flat wooden wedge I meant the round conical shaped wooden wedge. What's your opinion of them.
I started making my own wedges and like them a lot better than from hardware store. Also, the wedges at my stores are $7. Unbelievable.
I do like poplar, but I have a bunch of white oak so I use that. They don’t tend to crack like you mentioned and the cracking doesn’t so much bother me for functionality but I can always see the crack even after finishing the axe head, and that bugs me.
Great video on the subject, you’ve got a great system for storing those wedges
$7! Damn! That was a white pine I broke, I believe. I’ve used plenty of poplar wedges too. Nothing wrong with em. I don’t mind that cracking when they go in. Sometimes it allows you to get some of it in further.
could get a barrel wedge that expands horizontally like some fancy arrow broadhead tips... Also why not get fully customized barrel wedges that aren't circular, but more oblong and/or follow the perimeter of the eye itself.
I like the oblong idea. The real issue is that no matter what you do the handle will shrink just a little over time, and you can only fit so much metal in the eye, so it would be nice to just tighten the metal already in the eye.
I'm very new, and just about to try hanging a hatchet myself. Just some "fresh eyes" thoughts here. I think the type of wood may not matter, asa hard wood wont compress as much as a soft wood, but it is more dense. So it is possible that either way, you can hammer the same amount of grain inside overall. Also how the woods handle moisture would be my concern, I'd rather the handle and wedge take blo and moisture in similar ways, in our to evenly distribute stress throughout the seasons and use. Also, maybe if you can get the wood glue in the pores, then it should add some more years to the axe head... but yeah i think the barrel wedge is most important
Good thoughts. I like a guy thinking for himself. More than anything else that’s what this channel is about.
I've found Hackberry to be an excellent wedge. Medium hardness and it takes a lot of pounding without cracking.
Yes, I actually have an entire handle made of hackberry now. So far so good!
The plumb take up wedge..(screw Wedge) was a great design and I think could work inside a modified barrel wedge to adjust the expansion like the design you were inventing.. this was a great discussion because there is no "right" way..
I’ve never seen one. Sure wish I could get my hands on one. Thanks, I hope my vids come off that way. I’m just relating what I’ve learned and how I do things. I never want to sound preachy, unless it’s meant to be a joke.
Would a drywall screw anchor work as an adjustable wedge
Sorta, maybe, I’ll have to try that.
6:21 that is awesome!
I don't think wood type matters, but harder wedges are less forgiving and therefore must be sized properly. I've used hickory, walnut, maple, cherry, etc. They all work. I get solid hangs on all but my old H. Werk maul, which has the small, almost round eye.
I pretty much agree. And that’s a good point about hardwood wedges being less forgiving. I’m not so interested in the original hang. It’s 6-12 months down the line that’s got me experimenting.
Glad find your channel
Thanks, subscribe and hit the bell. I try to post weekly. And I enjoy engaging with you guys in the comments.
Kevin, can you share links to where you buy your double cross and barrel wedges? Can't find any in the brands you mentioned on Amazon.
These guys typically carry them: piranhatools.co.nz/products/steel-wedge-round-2-pack-hultafors
@@KevinsDisobedience Thank you sir!
Man that's a very good idea like a diegrinder collar... I've actually got a couple spares. But for me it's about ascetic... i like making things look pretty as well as functional. But I don't make my living with a axe and don't actually chop nearly as much as a lot of people do . Lol I like carving handles... but this video was very informative... thanks.
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it. If you’re more concerned with the look, I’d just stick to wooden wedges. Purple Heart is always a solid choice.
@@KevinsDisobedience thanks
I recently started using empty shell cases on my hatchets. .30 carbine and .357 magnum seem to work best. Bang them in until about 1/4" is protruding and saw the end off flush.
I’ve seen it done before. Looks really slick.
My wedges usually come from pallets. My current pallet is beech which i really like..
That’s a neat idea
Good Video- You mentioned that those barrel wedges are readily available- I've been looking all night for someone that carries them - other than Amazon- without success. Where do you buy yours from?
They have gotten a bit difficult to track down recently. Amazon has some a believe, but they’re not the really good ones. The ones I really like are Hultafors or Oxhead. Try this site. www.kctool.com/picard-370-1-round-wedge/?gclid=CjwKCAjw2rmWBhB4EiwAiJ0mtYFmlDGmXw3VpGEuGtu4KtBCBzobHIoPyqRkZudZ5Sfgh-BC1y19HRoCDZ8QAvD_BwE
It’s KC Tools. I’ve bought from them in the past. They seem to be more popular in Europe.
@@KevinsDisobedience Thank You!
@@KevinsDisobedience Just an update I just completed my order with KC Tools- seems like a great place- I want to thank you again for replying to my comment- it was a huge help!
I am making an oak handle for a hatchet and I think I am going to a wedge made from the same piece of wood I used for the handle but I might make the wedge from 90 year oldish southern red pine. I am also going to use glue.Because I live in a high humidity environment, I don't think I will use a metal wedge yet because if the head gets loose, then I will insert a metal wedge. I have heard other guys say to do that.
Makes sense to me. The only thing I would add is to take time shaping the wedge to fit the kerf. It matters more when the wedge is hardwood.
Thank you so much Kev. I'm sort of a newbie in this community. I'm making walking stick/canes that are pretty much self defense fighting sticks for getting around, striving urban living - I'm in Chicago. I've made a few walking canes with Ball Pean hammer steel cane handles - just carved to fit and then guerrilla glue. They start to loosen, wobble after some use. Yeah, the nail, screw thing didn't work. I'll try some of your wedge suggestions.
I'm considering making a walking cane/fighting cane with an axe head for the cane handle.
Can you provide some links to your favorite online places to buy these wedges?
Thanks Kevin
Merry Christmas 2023
Chicago, USA
Thrane Axe and Saw. Google it. Their great.
@@KevinsDisobedience Thanks Kevin
Nice video, but in my area i cant find barell wedges....in fact, there are no metal wedges at all; do you think i could use a small pipe as a metal wedge?
Thanks, I order them online, but I don’t see why you couldn’t use a small piece of pipe. Maybe just sharpen in on one end so it goes in easier.
@@KevinsDisobedience Hmm...thanks man for the quick reply...ill give it a try !
I was thinking about making them from square solid steel with an angle grinder and drilling in the middle...
What do you think about putting wedges on the side of the eye of the ax?
Your frankness and clarity just got my subscription. Glue can be a bitch, that's for sure.
Thank you, I really appreciate it, and welcome to our little knitting group.
Where can i get some of the metal step wedges that look like an h from tge top?
I can’t remember where I found them. Try Thrane Axe online. They might have them.
Well I have solved the problème I use mostly socket axes 😎 keep your wedge!
Intresting personaly I usualy do my wedge in the wood I have around (often the left over from the handle making), dry or not, if it get lose I juste make a new one and bang it in. I use metal wedge but not that often, and mostly step wedges.
For me my handles getting lose from shrinking is a summer probleme more then a winter one.
Thanks for the input. I think it’s an open discussion, really. Definitely don’t be afraid to experiment, that’s my main advice. People swear by one thing when they’ve never tried the other. Interesting you have an issue in the summer when the wood pores should be filled up with moisture. Do you live in a really dry climate?
@@KevinsDisobedience I live in the top half of France. in région were there is usualy a lot of humidity but in the last 3/4 years the summer are getting hoter and hoter. Some of my axe are stord in my van other in my workshop and in both I have some handle getting some play, usualy it start at the end of june until mid septembre.
That’s interesting. I never have issues in the summer. It’s always the dead of winter. I thought that was the norm, given the lack of humidity in the air, but I’ll have to ask around some more. Thanks for sharing the info. This is how we can build real knowledge as a community.
@@KevinsDisobedience I know I use to work in a swamp region so there was still a lot of humidity even in winter, but that wasn't the case last year, and I don't remember have axe getting lose in the winter but I do this summer.
@@gustaveremon7019
Good to know. Thanks
Keep the grain running straight in line with length of the shalf. It will be much stronger when driving in. Grain running across the axe will bend & break very easy when driving in. You would see it compressing as you hit it.
Makes sense. Thanks for taking the time to comment.
The Sami people use only a wood wedge but they smear it in ash from the fire. This prevents it from slipping and also provides easy removal of the wedge should you need to do so.
That’s cool. Most of the time if you use a soft wedge it won’t work out.
Good work.
Thanks, Tim. Glad people are enjoying this series. I plan to do one on rasps and files this year.
Do you always need a wooden wedge, or can you just use barrel wedges? I'm trying to restore an axe and there is no slot in the handle. So that's why I'm asking
You need to cut a kerf for the wooden wedge. You don’t always need metal wedges, but you always need a wooden wedge, unless it’s a slipfit, but that’s a different style.
Okay. Thank you
What were the brands of the barrel wedges?
The ones I prefer I get from Hultafors.
There used to be a screw type wedge. I have only seen a few. Not as you describe but similar concept.
I think I saw something like that once, too.
Plumb used to have those, basically a tapered srew with no head
@@nilsv461 That was it.
I’d love to see one. Anyone got pics? I guess they didn’t work or didn’t catch on. Just seems like it would be the ticket. Also, Killer you’ve seen a lot more vintage axes than I have. Am I missing any major types of wedges in my collection?
@@KevinsDisobedience Google images Plumb screw wedge.
But would nails still work tho? If used around the wedge to make it tighter
Sure, to an extent. Anything driven in the eye that will expand it will technically work. But once it’s shrunk so much, it’ll need rehung.
Kevin is the lizard King, he can chop anything 😁. Awesome shirt brother 👍.
Thanks, sorry for the late reply. I was away for three days. You a doors fan too, I take it?!
So what’s your final conclusion about the wooden dowel wedge?
Not worth drilling the material out to add it in for minor expansion. I just use a barrel wedge is necessary.
@@KevinsDisobedience thanks. Another question if I may: I have spacing up in the eye after I put in the wedge (a few months ago). There is no play, the head isn’t loose at all, but I wanted to put in a barrel wedge to close up the spaces. The problem is that I can’t get the wedge more than half way in… what should I do? Maybe wait till the winter for it to shrink a bit and then put in the barrel wedge?
great vid :D
Thanks
Ok so you are saying that you essential want somthing like an expandable concreet anchor or a beefed up dry wall anchor right
Basically a concrete anchor with a means of tightening it over time, but some locking mechanism to keep the pressure from bleeding off.
Where did you get those barrel wedges.?
www.shforestrysupplies.com/919a-1693867-ochsenkopf-replacement-heavy-hatchet-handle-fittings.html?gclid=CjwKCAjwiY6MBhBqEiwARFSCPgFl-j6CO5P_vbtlvUjZYYrOSEyuqtDPHdxOem8hUIemvhSayGzx3RoCQO0QAvD_BwE
Osage (Hedge Apple) is the densest of all those @ 5:00
My head fell off 3 times with soft wood. The 4th time using hardwood the handle snapped at the head
Not sure how you consider Osage a softer wood. It's very hard per the Janka scale. Sycamore is very soft. It sounds like you have that backwards in your comparison.
Yeah, you might be right. I honestly don’t worry so much about how hard a wood is anymore. Just shape and mash.
This really has nothing to do with this video and I know it's an old video but, do you know of any good resources that explain convex edge vs flat grind? When you would want one over the other etc.
There’s a lot out there on the internet about that. To be honest, I don’t think it matters much. But Ben Scott has a good video on axe geometry and what different grinds are good for. I don’t remember the name of the vid, but I’m sure if you search his name with axe grinds it’ll come up. Also I just made a sharpening video on how to setup an axe to make it chop. I also have an older one. My very first one actually.
@@KevinsDisobedience thanks! I'd never heard of Ben Scott yet, now I have another channel to binge. Been binging yours and vintage axe hoarder for days now. I watched your most recent sharpening video right after making this comment and kinda answered my own question haha.
Concrete anchors will do the expansion you're taking about towards the end of the video.
Same principal, sure. But you’d have to drill out some material to put them in. That’s the issue I have with wooden dowels.
I try not to use metal wedges at all and hope for the best. I do try to orientate the grain of the wedge opposite of the handle just cause it looks cool. By the way this would've been a good video to bring out some Beavis and Butthead!
Makes sense to leave the metal out until it comes loose. And yeah, probably would have been a good Butthead vid lol.
Whenever I intend to split wood or accidentally crack/split wood metal is ALWAYS involved being driven into wood. Only metal I believe belongs on an ax is the ax head itself.
You means you’ve split a handle with a metal wedge? I’ve never had an issue. But to each his own. Many ways to tighten up a loose axe, but nothing as quick as a metal wedge.
So you want a tapered split wedge drywall anchor? They make them, you'd just have to taper the outside
I hate to ask for a favor, but any chance you can share a link? I’ve used many different kinds of drywall anchors, and the screw type is similar to the old Plumb Takeup wedge, but I’d like the bottom to expand as you tighten it. Thanks
T think plumb made a expanding wedge that could be tightened as needed.
Others have said that. It’s not quite what I have in mind, but neat to see someone else has thought of it. Not surprised it was Plumb. They were definitely the most innovative.
The one time I tried to use a hardwood wedge it just kept popping back out after every hammer strike. I had to abandon and move on to the softwood. But this video came out at a timely manner as I had two axe heads come loose last week because I took them out chopping in the cold weather. Metal wedges to the rescue.
p.s. please stop your Connecticut teasing.
That’s the problem with real hard woods. You have to spend a lot more time shaping them and finessing them to the kerf. That’s why I prefer middling softwoods as I showed. They don’t break easy and will still conform the the eye. As for the loose axes, bang the handle off the concrete first. It will mostly likely seat down some more, unless you’ve got a large transition which you want to avoid, and then apply your metal wedges.
And I promise I’ll do the Connie soon. I’ve got really bad case of tennis elbow in both arms from work, so I can’t chop atm. And it seems a little silly to just talk theory and not do any chopping.
Why did you put wedges in the GBA
It came loose. Here’s the link if you’re interested, thanks: ua-cam.com/video/zz40A3F3j3I/v-deo.html
How you have been. in my country is not to easy to find wedges even in metal or wood, I have to made by myself, and I have to go with the carpenters and bought some good wood and we select proper wood. The trouble of the eye of my axe is small and the other side is to open, how to fill the rest. Now I made q new handle by myself Is look good the trouble is the eye
I’m fine, thank you. How are you? It’s unfortunate that you can’t buy wedges, but then they aren’t terribly hard to make. What wood do you prefer for wedges? Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment. Hope you decide to sub and stick around. Thanks
You won't get as much crown breaking if you cut it off or at least a lot shorter and the barrel wedge will be able to go deeper
For sure. The cracking doesn’t bother me, but if you want the wedge deeper in the eye you can always set it in further with another wedge. I do that sometimes to tighten a loose head.
Kevin's disobey
An expanding wedge like you describe is already been invented concrete anchors come in all shapes and sizes
I literally said like a concrete anchor. I’m well aware. I’ve finished concrete since high school. You have to drill out material to make a concrete anchor work. I don’t want to remove material. I want to insert a metal wedge into the wood that I can then tighten.
I should have read the comments!
You forgot about the tried and true 4inch framing nail wedge. 🤣
It’s true, it’s true...the old timers loved their nails.
So a metal wedge with a flat top to replace the wooden wedge, drill a hole down the axe handle to acept a bolt then a 90°hole further down that slides the barrel nut in similar to fixing cheap furniture that then pulls the wedge further into the handle 🤷
Could work. Not a bad idea. Might have to give that a go. What I really want is expansion outwards against the eye.
@@KevinsDisobedience maybe even a steel wedge with a hole in and then threaded bar resined into the axe handle to then tighten and pull the wedge further down
My issue is axe antique market wedge old rotten no good any more definitely wrong size did not fit axe wooden axe handle
The last wedge part sounds like you want something like a metal bolt fixing for bricks, that should be theoretical ne easy to do, for some people or even use some of this bolt fixings for that. 🤔
Not familiar with that. Is it something you could hammer into a wooden eye without having to drill out material?
I don't really know nice grain wooden wedge looks nice
Dyno bolts expand the way you describe.
Cool, and they can be hammered in without removing wood?
What about hollow wall anchors like they use in cinder block walls! But you would destroy the handle if you ever wanted to pull that out! It would be a cut and drill out!😂😂😂
Might work. I still think something like that would be great for wedge bangers and splitters.
I threw the axe head in a hot fire! Easy Peasy for removing the old handle!
The Viagra comment made eight grade me laugh out loud. Thanks for that, brother.
12:22
I'm sure the chinese can engineer a GPS chip into that barrel wedge, so when the head flies off, you can find it in the bushes.
Hahaha. But seriously, have you ever seen a head fly off when chopping? When I was growing up, we had a splitting maul that was so loose it would easily move up and down on the haft, but no matter what I did I couldn’t get it to come off. That’s my experience with axes. They easily come loose, but rarely loose enough to make it easy to take off.
@@KevinsDisobedience I guess you never grew up watching Three Stooges or Bugs Bunny.
Bugs absolutely, not so much Three Stooges.
So in other words you want a metal Molly as an axe wedge 🤔 hmmm that’s not a bad idea
What’s a metal Molly? Might be the ticket. Just something to tighten up every years as the wood shrinks slightly.
@@KevinsDisobedience I have seen a metal Molly that would work in an axe handle , the ones I know of are used for securing things to concrete , but i do think something can be easily made with a metal lathe , a tap and a cut off wheel
6:29 That is the best wood glue in my opinion. It's Gorilla wood glue, not Gorilla PU!
Lol I just recommend exterior rated is all
@@KevinsDisobedience Well, that one is not exterior rated but I would still say that it's the best elmers/white glue/wood glue out there. I have done my own tests on this.
Damn, I wanted to be first! Haha
That’s for the suggestion of showing of the box and collection.
You lost me at "I have no idea what the janka scale is for these woods...." Osage Orange is one of the hardest woods available on the North American continent, 4 times harder than sycamore or elm and twice as hard as beech. Only thing I can think of that's harder is Ironwood, which is less commonly available.
Ive heard that. I just used some to make a handle for a billbook. Works really easily, but my understanding is it was used for bows back in the day.