Albion fan here. In short: yes it was in play and yes it was a red card. Carlos is very animated on the touchline and hopefully he learns from this debacle. Onwards and upwards
@@bitchtits9292 I like him! Good attitude and work ethic. Some fans get on his back, but baring in mind that he has been the only fit striker this season, I think he has done a great job. Probably not a prem player, but definitely a handful
However, he wasn't animated at all with his response to it. It was more like "... shit, I F'ed up. Yeah. *gets shown card* Alright. Guys, see you back in the locker room." So I think he was really accepting of things immediately.
I'm a Baggies fan, and you're completely right. Part of me wishes the ref had just given him a yellow for what was an obvious brain fart. (The ball was going back to our defence anyways) but I wasn't really upset with the red, just following the laws of the game. He's a great manager though, worked wonders under our old ownership who were absolute dross. Hope the Tampa royal family can sort us out. :)
that's always a red card. the manager absolutely cannot touch the ball unless it has clearly gone out, and shouldn't touch it under any circumstances just to be safe. the ball boys are there for a reason.
This is a great opportunity to remember ourselves that we should question systems instead of hating people. The manager made a very understandable, human mistake and I think we all can agree on him getting a red card for a genuine mistake feels kinda harsh. And the truth is that the referee did his job perfectly. He followed the rules and didn't rise emotions by being apologetic about him having to enforce the rules. Both humans involved acted like we expect humans to act and both shouldn't be hated for being human. What we could do is give a referee more wiggle room when enforcing the rules. Maybe for a manager to kick a ball within the line isn't an automatic red card every single time. Maybe sometimes, when it's a genuine mistake and there isn't too much damage to the game created by such a mistake, then maybe he only gets a yellow card. I generally feel like we overstepped the line when it comes to how extremely restricted referees are by the technicalities of the rules. Sometimes the enforcement of the rules goes against the spirit of the rules. Like in this case: The spirit of the rule is to not create unnecessary emotions by someone disrupting the game in an unfair, unsportsman-like fashion. But instead this red card created a higher level of emotions than a yellow card would have. Or when the VAR is supposed to make a game more fair, but instead slows it down with minutes of looking at monitors, which erodes the number one spirit of all rules: Making the game more entertaining. I bet everyone can name other examples. Maybe it's time to give a little more power to the referees. Give them a little wiggle room in their decisions. Let them go by what they feel is the best for the game and not by a technically correctly upheld bureaucratic technicality, that doesn't seem to make sense in a specific context. Let referees be more human and not mere robots following the codes that have been programmed into them. And maybe football becomes more entertaining and more beautiful next to more humane.
I disagree with you that the Red is harsh, I think it's entirely appropriate. But it definitely doesn't need any more drama then that. It was a stupid mistake to make, the proper punishment was doled out and that should have been the end of it. The only appropriate reaction is just to laugh at it a bit. I do agree with your later point of ref's getting more of the power back, but just not for this example.
I don't think the spirit of the rule is to prevent emotions from boiling over, I think the spirit of the rule is to stop anyone who isn't on the pitch from interfering with play.
I’m a massive saints fan from the US and was watching this game live on my computer. I saw that the manager got sent off in the 6th minute and I was confused. I thought he had said something to the referee and the commentator for the game claimed it must have been some verbal abuse from the manager, which is what I thought as well. This decision changed the whole outcome of the game. West Brom were without a manager for 85+ minutes and that was a part of the reason they lost. As a Southampton fan, I was thrilled, but after the game on Instagram, I saw a lot of West Brom fans in Southampton’s accounts’ and fan accounts’ comments commenting about how the ‘ref was paid’ and we got ‘handed the game’. I did not see one single comment within an hour after the final whistle saying the reason the manager was sent off was for playing the ball while it was in play. It wasn’t made clear to viewers at home that this is what happened, however, those are the rules. It shows how quick opposing fans are to lambast their opponent, but West Brom supporters have no one to blame for the decision other than their manager. COYR
My initial reaction to this was that a red card was excessive for what was done, however after seeing this video, I researched and shall now post the clause that makes this a red card. Team Officials Where an offence is committed by someone from the technical area (substitute, substituted player, sent-off player or team official) and the offender cannot be identified, the senior team coach present in the technical area will receive the sanction. ... Sending-off offences include (but are not limited to): interfere with play, an opposing player or a match official When seeing that clause, it makes the referees reaction make a lot more sense because he cannot give it as a warning or a yellow as there are no clauses in the rules that allow for it. But my main issue is with how lenient/flip floppy touchline rules are enforced. In at least most Premier league games I watch (i know this is championship but they are still english referees) that ball would be given as a throw in 99/100 and if it was for a corner/goal kick it would be more situational depending on who had full control of the ball last, whether the linesmen saw it directly and how big it would affect the game. Throw ins are almost always given easier than corners/goalkicks because theres less risk involved and they usually dont affect how the game plays and is usually a comprimise that satisfies both teams. Giving a red card to a manager is a decision that has ramifications not only on this game but also on the next game for the offending manager. Yes, I know that its technically not out, however seeing premier league linesmen week in, week out give throw ins for balls that are less contentious than that is what makes me feel this way. Love these videos as they almost always get me to think in a different way about a situation (probably because of cultural differences between US and UK) and make me think why I feel a certain way about an issue. TL;DR: Its a red according to the rules however I feel just giving a throw in wouldve solved the issue in a less controversial way (no one would complain after the game)
It's one of those situations where you should apply the spirit of the rules, rather than the wording of the rules. Clearly he didn't do it on purpose, you can tell by his own reaction, so if I'm the ref I give him a talking to and a direct free kick to the opposition.
Reminds me of the 2019 Bundesliga 2 match between Holstein Kiel and Bochum. Bochum pulled shot very clearly wide of goal with no other players in the area. A holstein player who was warming up behind the goal stopped it right before it went out, got a yellow card, and Bochum was awarded a PK
This is ironically the funniest video Zealand has produced just brainstorming hypotheses that I haven't even thought about whilst not intending to be funny.
As you were speaking about the championship, as someone from the place I highly recommend having a look at Ipswich Town and their massive rise since Kieran Mckenna took over. Currently massively overperforming in the championship against much, much stronger sides. Would be cool to see my hometown in a video and also feel the team and the manager in particular deserve a highlight
This video went from a "yeah you're right, that's absolutely a red card offense" to "holy fuck this might be the most hilarious coincidence you've ever posted about 14/10 best video on the new channel" REAL fast
You know, a game where the ball can be kicked back into play might actually be quite an exciting thing to watch: Imagine 11 players inside the lines and another 11 outside, and neither is allowed to cross the threshold... If nothing else, it'd be hilarious.
As a westvrom fan I never expected you to talk about us is there anyway that you can talk about westbroms old Chinese owners because I think it’s a good footballing story we were almost going to be like 40m in debt at the end of the season and potentially go bust but we got bought by a businessman and his family from Florida
What the coaching staff are allowed to do in the technical area is pretty well defined rules wise. I suspect the competition would be bringing personal fines if they see intent or they may do it to send a warning. But the referee had no choice if he wants to stay on the championship list and stand a chance of getting to the Premiership.
I didn’t know it was a red card offence tbf. I remember Jose Mourinho ran on the pitch to stop a counter attack in a soccer aid match. Whether it was cause it was for charity they decided red cards didn’t exist but he didn’t get sent off for that.
Hi Z, im an Ipswich fan here. I highly doubt this comment will get read or recognised but here we go. I regularly attend home games and when I don't I always watch Ipswich. Being in the same league as west brom and having recently played them I think it's fair to say the standard of refereeing in this league is so so poor. I think singling out individual referees is a poor excuse to make but it's fair to say the championship has had so many bad decisions. However, it's also had some good calls. Like when andreis weimann - west brom player - handballed from a free kick into the back of the net and he was booked + goal revoked. Never getting spotted as the lino is the other side and it took the shouting of fans behind the goal for it not to be given. Nontheless, I still think that the championship has had horrible decision making. My club has had - and yes I have kept tally - 42 penalty claims from 32 championship games. How many have we received? 2. 1 was definitively outside the box. The other was a lucky pull back similar to Holjund on Rodri. I hope other avid championship watchers that see this comment can agree: the standard of refereeing in games that aren't southampton, leicester and leeds games is absolutely shameful and stokey was right to call it out given all the frustration but wrong to call it out on the decision. Thanks if u've read this.
By the law of the game, there's no difference here from him slide-tackling a Southampton winger that's running past him. If it had been a horizontal ball that was defo going out & he stopped it just it crossed the line out I'd say a red was harsh, but I don't see how anyone can think this was a ridiculous decision
Yeah that’s just the laws of the game, any sub or coach or staff who enter the field of play and impact the play get a red card. That’s it. Can’t get mad at the ref here, if you wanna be mad, get mad at the laws and the people who write them
idk Z, IMO him touching the ball didn't change the direction of it's path, barely changes the speed and doesn't stop anyone from getting to the ball, i.e nothing happened
I agree that the ref gave a red rightfully, but i dont agree thet it was his only option. Based on the situation refs can decide to not follow the rules. for example, do you remember the legendary Phil Jones dive to head the ball away? there, the ref, according to the rules, should have given a red card and a penalty for dangerous play, but he evaluated the situation and decided that he can male an exception
He clearly thought the ball had gone over the line. it's hard to claim he interferred with an active ball... not sure a red card was warranted, but the reaction is a bit OTT. If I'm that ref I give him a talking to, tell him he's a twat and not to do it again and then we move on.
If you only give him a talking to, the other manager who was on the verge of a heart attack will whine and the Twitter mob will come for you for not following the rules.
you are so critical of this situation. I agree that it was a red card, but whats with your whole thing about how is it not more? what do you want, take em out back and shoot em? Like oh my god
This channel is becoming the penguinz0 of football and im all for it
THATS GENIUS
More like mogul mail
@@nexttt__ you are so right.
nah definitely moistcr1tikal. @@nexttt__
That was my exact thought at the beginning of the video
To be fair, if Twitter is outraged about something, you can just side with the opposite and 99% of the time it'll be the sane opinion.
i feel the same way about some politicians.
@@NeilLewis77internet chads are powerless politicians
“Why am I not just playing this.”
Because Sky Sports makes Disney look like the Open Source Foundation.
LOL
true
They pay a stupid amount of money to try to maintain their monopoly. Money they can't afford so everything else suffers and prices go up
Albion fan here. In short: yes it was in play and yes it was a red card. Carlos is very animated on the touchline and hopefully he learns from this debacle. Onwards and upwards
Salford fan here, hope you are enjoying Thomas-Asante
@@bitchtits9292 I like him! Good attitude and work ethic. Some fans get on his back, but baring in mind that he has been the only fit striker this season, I think he has done a great job. Probably not a prem player, but definitely a handful
However, he wasn't animated at all with his response to it. It was more like "... shit, I F'ed up. Yeah. *gets shown card* Alright. Guys, see you back in the locker room." So I think he was really accepting of things immediately.
you can always trust twitter to have the wrong opinion on something, no matter how simple
That pedo hater are hypocryte
I think FM has it correct with their 3 extreme reactions to everything on your social media page
enjoying this channel way more than i expected to
This channel feels like late night Zealand, and it’s so good 👌
Have Z just schedule these to go live at like 11:35 PM ET right after the local news. It'll be great "late vibes and chill" for around bedtime.
that frog looks like a killer in the green light
He looks like he's up to something,
I'm a Baggies fan, and you're completely right. Part of me wishes the ref had just given him a yellow for what was an obvious brain fart. (The ball was going back to our defence anyways) but I wasn't really upset with the red, just following the laws of the game. He's a great manager though, worked wonders under our old ownership who were absolute dross. Hope the Tampa royal family can sort us out. :)
that's always a red card. the manager absolutely cannot touch the ball unless it has clearly gone out, and shouldn't touch it under any circumstances just to be safe. the ball boys are there for a reason.
This is a great opportunity to remember ourselves that we should question systems instead of hating people.
The manager made a very understandable, human mistake and I think we all can agree on him getting a red card for a genuine mistake feels kinda harsh.
And the truth is that the referee did his job perfectly. He followed the rules and didn't rise emotions by being apologetic about him having to enforce the rules.
Both humans involved acted like we expect humans to act and both shouldn't be hated for being human.
What we could do is give a referee more wiggle room when enforcing the rules. Maybe for a manager to kick a ball within the line isn't an automatic red card every single time. Maybe sometimes, when it's a genuine mistake and there isn't too much damage to the game created by such a mistake, then maybe he only gets a yellow card.
I generally feel like we overstepped the line when it comes to how extremely restricted referees are by the technicalities of the rules. Sometimes the enforcement of the rules goes against the spirit of the rules. Like in this case: The spirit of the rule is to not create unnecessary emotions by someone disrupting the game in an unfair, unsportsman-like fashion. But instead this red card created a higher level of emotions than a yellow card would have. Or when the VAR is supposed to make a game more fair, but instead slows it down with minutes of looking at monitors, which erodes the number one spirit of all rules: Making the game more entertaining. I bet everyone can name other examples.
Maybe it's time to give a little more power to the referees. Give them a little wiggle room in their decisions. Let them go by what they feel is the best for the game and not by a technically correctly upheld bureaucratic technicality, that doesn't seem to make sense in a specific context. Let referees be more human and not mere robots following the codes that have been programmed into them. And maybe football becomes more entertaining and more beautiful next to more humane.
I disagree with you that the Red is harsh, I think it's entirely appropriate. But it definitely doesn't need any more drama then that.
It was a stupid mistake to make, the proper punishment was doled out and that should have been the end of it.
The only appropriate reaction is just to laugh at it a bit.
I do agree with your later point of ref's getting more of the power back, but just not for this example.
I don't think the spirit of the rule is to prevent emotions from boiling over, I think the spirit of the rule is to stop anyone who isn't on the pitch from interfering with play.
I’m a massive saints fan from the US and was watching this game live on my computer. I saw that the manager got sent off in the 6th minute and I was confused. I thought he had said something to the referee and the commentator for the game claimed it must have been some verbal abuse from the manager, which is what I thought as well. This decision changed the whole outcome of the game. West Brom were without a manager for 85+ minutes and that was a part of the reason they lost. As a Southampton fan, I was thrilled, but after the game on Instagram, I saw a lot of West Brom fans in Southampton’s accounts’ and fan accounts’ comments commenting about how the ‘ref was paid’ and we got ‘handed the game’. I did not see one single comment within an hour after the final whistle saying the reason the manager was sent off was for playing the ball while it was in play. It wasn’t made clear to viewers at home that this is what happened, however, those are the rules. It shows how quick opposing fans are to lambast their opponent, but West Brom supporters have no one to blame for the decision other than their manager. COYR
This along with your amazing mini-documentaries on the main channel is my favourite football content by far
My initial reaction to this was that a red card was excessive for what was done, however after seeing this video, I researched and shall now post the clause that makes this a red card.
Team Officials
Where an offence is committed by someone from the technical area (substitute, substituted player, sent-off player or team official) and the offender cannot be identified, the senior team coach present in the technical area will receive the sanction.
...
Sending-off offences include (but are not limited to):
interfere with play, an opposing player or a match official
When seeing that clause, it makes the referees reaction make a lot more sense because he cannot give it as a warning or a yellow as there are no clauses in the rules that allow for it. But my main issue is with how lenient/flip floppy touchline rules are enforced. In at least most Premier league games I watch (i know this is championship but they are still english referees) that ball would be given as a throw in 99/100 and if it was for a corner/goal kick it would be more situational depending on who had full control of the ball last, whether the linesmen saw it directly and how big it would affect the game.
Throw ins are almost always given easier than corners/goalkicks because theres less risk involved and they usually dont affect how the game plays and is usually a comprimise that satisfies both teams.
Giving a red card to a manager is a decision that has ramifications not only on this game but also on the next game for the offending manager.
Yes, I know that its technically not out, however seeing premier league linesmen week in, week out give throw ins for balls that are less contentious than that is what makes me feel this way.
Love these videos as they almost always get me to think in a different way about a situation (probably because of cultural differences between US and UK) and make me think why I feel a certain way about an issue.
TL;DR: Its a red according to the rules however I feel just giving a throw in wouldve solved the issue in a less controversial way (no one would complain after the game)
It's one of those situations where you should apply the spirit of the rules, rather than the wording of the rules. Clearly he didn't do it on purpose, you can tell by his own reaction, so if I'm the ref I give him a talking to and a direct free kick to the opposition.
Football really needed a youtube channel like this
Reminds me of the 2019 Bundesliga 2 match between Holstein Kiel and Bochum. Bochum pulled shot very clearly wide of goal with no other players in the area. A holstein player who was warming up behind the goal stopped it right before it went out, got a yellow card, and Bochum was awarded a PK
This is ironically the funniest video Zealand has produced just brainstorming hypotheses that I haven't even thought about whilst not intending to be funny.
As you were speaking about the championship, as someone from the place I highly recommend having a look at Ipswich Town and their massive rise since Kieran Mckenna took over. Currently massively overperforming in the championship against much, much stronger sides.
Would be cool to see my hometown in a video and also feel the team and the manager in particular deserve a highlight
Hope you guys end up getting to the Prem!
@@SuperMickyChow thank you!
Omari Owari da Hutchinson performing like a beast too just makes me wanna cry tears of joy.
helluva voice you got there, dude. utterly radio friendly.
I enjoy your discussions, period.
Honestly top tier title ......... Why
It does lack a question mark, which annoys me. But yeah.
@@johnaarson you know that is a fair criticism. I understand your frustration.
@@johnaarsonBut yeah.
That Frog looks pure evil.
This channel is a goldmine and luckily the youtube algorithm seems to agree
This video went from a "yeah you're right, that's absolutely a red card offense" to "holy fuck this might be the most hilarious coincidence you've ever posted about 14/10 best video on the new channel" REAL fast
You know, a game where the ball can be kicked back into play might actually be quite an exciting thing to watch: Imagine 11 players inside the lines and another 11 outside, and neither is allowed to cross the threshold...
If nothing else, it'd be hilarious.
God i hope Z covers inevitable clusterfuck that is pakistani football in the near future
As a westvrom fan I never expected you to talk about us is there anyway that you can talk about westbroms old Chinese owners because I think it’s a good footballing story we were almost going to be like 40m in debt at the end of the season and potentially go bust but we got bought by a businessman and his family from Florida
I think it's more the reaction. If he got a yellow for it, people wouldn't be up and arms about it. But since it's a red, of course they'd be annoyed.
this happened in a Sporting-Benfica derby in futsal last month or so. a Sporting player on the bench interfered with play and only got a yellow for it
hamburgur
Happened with the Kilmarnock manager last year too... his was more unlucky..if that makes sense?
He really RAN onto that pitch huh? Go run Z
Best channel the algorithm has ever recommended to me. Love this stream of content!
Mike newell did this when he was manager of luton in the mid 00s vs brighton when they used to play at the whitdean
What the coaching staff are allowed to do in the technical area is pretty well defined rules wise. I suspect the competition would be bringing personal fines if they see intent or they may do it to send a warning. But the referee had no choice if he wants to stay on the championship list and stand a chance of getting to the Premiership.
Zealand master class 🎉
I didn’t know it was a red card offence tbf. I remember Jose Mourinho ran on the pitch to stop a counter attack in a soccer aid match. Whether it was cause it was for charity they decided red cards didn’t exist but he didn’t get sent off for that.
"I don't have a club in the championship" Man forgot Sunderland exist ;)
You ordered 5 guys? Well, good for you.
I never side with the Ref ever, But this time I side with the ref. Imagine if that ref was Collina? He would be body slamming that touchline.
its like the bundesliga player that was warming up near the goal and stopped the ball before it went out and gave away a penalty
Hi Z, im an Ipswich fan here. I highly doubt this comment will get read or recognised but here we go.
I regularly attend home games and when I don't I always watch Ipswich. Being in the same league as west brom and having recently played them I think it's fair to say the standard of refereeing in this league is so so poor. I think singling out individual referees is a poor excuse to make but it's fair to say the championship has had so many bad decisions.
However, it's also had some good calls. Like when andreis weimann - west brom player - handballed from a free kick into the back of the net and he was booked + goal revoked. Never getting spotted as the lino is the other side and it took the shouting of fans behind the goal for it not to be given.
Nontheless, I still think that the championship has had horrible decision making. My club has had - and yes I have kept tally - 42 penalty claims from 32 championship games.
How many have we received? 2.
1 was definitively outside the box.
The other was a lucky pull back similar to Holjund on Rodri.
I hope other avid championship watchers that see this comment can agree: the standard of refereeing in games that aren't southampton, leicester and leeds games is absolutely shameful and stokey was right to call it out given all the frustration but wrong to call it out on the decision.
Thanks if u've read this.
I can't believe it took me this long to realize that the lights are green because the channel logo is green and not blue omg
zealand talking about the albion, were fucking massive.
Logical take
Bilardo and Simeone would be proud
Imagine if that happened with THAT Bale goal against Barcelona
By the law of the game, there's no difference here from him slide-tackling a Southampton winger that's running past him.
If it had been a horizontal ball that was defo going out & he stopped it just it crossed the line out I'd say a red was harsh, but I don't see how anyone can think this was a ridiculous decision
I think you are referring to a snackcident
This channel is great
zealandism made me question why
THE GREEN IS BACK
❤ these weekend Z popup topics. 😂❤
I love how the thumbnails are as low quality as possible lol
I think it’s an over reaction on both ends. It had zero affect on the play but the ref also had to do their job
in serbian lower leagues people just throw extra balls on pitch when opponent is in opportunity to score :)
I'm so happy I'm not on twitter any more XD
THE GIRTH!!!!
Yeah that’s just the laws of the game, any sub or coach or staff who enter the field of play and impact the play get a red card. That’s it. Can’t get mad at the ref here, if you wanna be mad, get mad at the laws and the people who write them
Zealand, you need a cool exit stentence like MoistCrit says "that's about it, cya" and trademark it for yourself.
Z has freelancer and the water tho
I vote for "SEEK THE TRUTH BROTHER!" followed by an awkward shrug and idk, bye! xD 10:18
GREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEen
Pretty sure Stokey was joking i think he jokes a lot on incidents like these lol
Football twitter losing their mind over something that is actually hilarious. 🤣
The master of not making a point.
one day i’ll tell my kids i watched this guy back when he made stupid FM videos
When is sex update?
right here pooks *spreads asscheeks and oils up in lieu of entry*
GREEN
Why? I also agree. It's a red card, and was staying in play.
based
idk Z, IMO him touching the ball didn't change the direction of it's path, barely changes the speed and doesn't stop anyone from getting to the ball, i.e nothing happened
I agree that the ref gave a red rightfully, but i dont agree thet it was his only option. Based on the situation refs can decide to not follow the rules. for example, do you remember the legendary Phil Jones dive to head the ball away? there, the ref, according to the rules, should have given a red card and a penalty for dangerous play, but he evaluated the situation and decided that he can male an exception
This channel is becoming the LeafyIsHere of football and im all for it
Zealand isn't problematic though, he's more a penguinz0 type
early early gang gang
If watching the Championship means ur a loser how about League One😳
Could you make the lights red for the next video because United won?
HAHA BAYERN MUNICH😂
Upamecano is a brick 😂
CHANGE THE CHANNEL NAME!!!
He clearly thought the ball had gone over the line. it's hard to claim he interferred with an active ball...
not sure a red card was warranted, but the reaction is a bit OTT. If I'm that ref I give him a talking to, tell him he's a twat and not to do it again and then we move on.
If you only give him a talking to, the other manager who was on the verge of a heart attack will whine and the Twitter mob will come for you for not following the rules.
@@DrZaius3141 The ref probably then also has to explain to his bosses why he's not followed the rules on a big televised game too...
you are so critical of this situation. I agree that it was a red card, but whats with your whole thing about how is it not more? what do you want, take em out back and shoot em? Like oh my god
Episode is so minor and insignificant, why even talk about it?
First dislike
Why