The Blue Card is Insane
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- Опубліковано 11 лют 2024
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Personally Blue Cards will only allow for more corruption in football.
Some teams will abuse it as long a manager will be charge of that team
Ok, explain how? The only way I can think of is refs possibly over doing it in order to get more fines. Is that really likely?
@@AholeAtheist example Real Madrid player makes a tackle worthy of a red instead of getting that red the Ref gives him a Blue you see how it allows for more corruption especially when they have essentially added an orange card that Refs can use to cheat thier way of Dumb or lucrative deicisions.
@@AholeAtheist even with VAR descent is left up to the refs subjective understanding. Whether we like it or not these people can be swayed based on the day, history of teams involved and general favor. So with the power to disrupt a team's flow in a match.
Zealand having to rent his brain out to make ends meet. This economy is brutal.😂
Special deal it’s just five bucks on Fiverr now
Two bucks on Twofer @@Zealandism
Just strictly enforce the existing rules. The only people who can talk to the ref are the people involved in the foul/incident/whatever and the captains. If the other nine guys swarm the ref after a whistle, that's nine yellow cards. That happens once or twice and it's over. The players will adjust.
This. Refs need to stop being pamby about it
Yep, this is one of the major reasons refereeing works in rugby. Most players aren't allowed to talk to the ref without being requested.
Not even the captain is allowed to talk back to the ref according to the rules.
never played the game, have you?
Yeah but as soon as ONE ref does it then EVERYONE will be screaming "look at him making it about himself, he has to read the game, he has to use common sense!!"
Context: soccer ref for 13 years
I’ve long said if the referees acted like you see rugby and Hockey officials do it, it would vastly improve things. I always made it clear that I’ll talk to the captain but if multiple players approach me, I’m going to tell you to back away and then it’s yellows. Because of this, I had rare issues and in my regular league, quickly it was known I wasn’t gonna put up with that.
Another little side note: in American football and youth leagues, refs will say “sub them out.” Let’s the player cool off, doesn’t escalate things to cards or tossing, and then you sub them back in in a few minutes. This works because of the substitution rules in those sports/levels of competition, but is so useful as a tool too.
Honest question: Have you reffed in games involving millionaires? Because to me that's a big part of the development - people who believe themselves to be gods on the pitch because they are treated as such by their followers.
The difference between sports is more a matter of culture rather than to do with how football refs behave themselves.
@@DrZaius3141If they were gods, then they would be the captain and allowed to speak to the ref.
@@DrZaius3141 1,000% more on the line in those games and I completely get it. I just think there could be ‘cultural’ changes to the way things are officiated. We’ve seen similar in other sports, and also how quickly teams adjusted to the changes in timing rules. If refs started handing out yellows judiciously for dissent, suspensions added up, maybe some fines, you’d see a quick change in attitudes and actions. There’s examples in other sports at the top levels, and I truly believe the sport would be better for it.
@@RedDogRER But the problem with yellow cards is this:
-) In some situations, they are completely meaningless (mostly in cup competitions).
-) Even when they aren't meaningless, their effect will be somewhere down the line (suspension after X yellow cards) - to the human psyche, they might as well be meaningless.
-) Unless we see a second yellow card for the same player, the opponent won't benefit from the yellow at all. Instead, a random opponent can benefit. So even if it were true that a YC is an actual punishment, it is hardly ever beneficial to the team that was wronged.
@@RedDogRER a cultural change is the #1 thing football needs if they wanna address this not another card
This channel is perfect. Lighthearted, silly chatting about relatively obscure football topics with no bullshit, clickbait fake "hot takes". It's exactly the channel I would make if I had any talent, ability or motivation whatsoever
The thing is, media have blown this out of proportion - it's still in the trial phase and has yet to be tested at an actual fifa sanctioned tournament like an u17 cup of some kind.
Media have made it seem like the premier league are going to roll it our next week...
There are constant rule changes being tested that never make it past the trial phase because of real life applications becoming evident.
I wouldn't be too worried yet
As a michigander who grew up on hockey, the overall concept of a penalty box (or temporary seclusion from play during an ongoing game) makes sense.
i play amateur football in the netherlands on a lower level. we already have the rule that if you get a yellow card you have to get off the pitch for 10 minutes, its been there for many years.
Yeah, same. My league is one of six second tier leagues in New Zealand. We don't have it for professional fouls though, which I think is an even better idea. Frankly I think the refs can be a bit too thin skinned with regards to dissent, but we also have a problem of not having enough refs so it's probably good to give them some protection.
I think this is the key thing, IFAB aren't introducing a new rule, this is already in the laws. The cards only exist as ways to communicate cautions and sendings off effectively, this adds to that in a fairly simple way.
We didn't have a 10 minute rule in high school, but here in Texas if you got a yellow (only in high school) you'd have to be subbed off and brought back on later. (High school and most youth leagues outside of academy have unlimited subs)
Not sure if you'll ever read this, given the amount of things you prob have to deal with and stuff. But I'm really thankful for this channel, tbh. I love your stuff but I'm both a very occupied and an ADHD diagnosed person, so I leave UA-cam open as a background app more often than not. And having those videos where I don't need to pay much attention to the screen to understand what's going on is a blessing for me. Thanks, Zee
1:46 and I've got my pitchfork ready but I'll let you finish...
I play in a Dutch youth league and we already have this rule and we feel the effect of yellow/blue cards and the argument of time wasting is bs.
Yeah, like, refs should just be adding more time and/or giving more yellows for time wasting.
As an American your take on clutter is spot on.
7:00 The answer to Ange is one word: Rubgy.
There are 15 players on a Rugby team, one gets sin binned, thats an even smaller disadvantage than it would be for a football team. Rugby Union is a game where you can easily waste time, too, much easier than in football, you can just constantly force scrums or rucks and slow the game right down.
Yeah, and in football, if they're wasting time by slowing down set pieces, the ref adds time and/or they can give the players yellow cards.
Rugby is also a perfect example of var is also a bad idea in regards to game flow. The bunker (which for everyone who doesn't know is the equivalent of VAR in the NRL) has been mostly right but also had some absolute stinkers. The in the grand final last year it was predominately absent compared most finals and regular season games and made for an absolute spectacle. I don't think a blue card and VAR can coexist or should be used to at all except for maybe goal lime technology. Gets rid of the clutter and makes the game more enjoyable.
So using football to prove a point about football 😂
Not even close to the same thing
Ain't no way someone online is showing humility. I won't stand for it
It goes as follow;
1. Every time a blue card is givin it will take about 10 min to end this scene (arguing, managers getting mad, etc..
2. The players wil find a way like Zealand said, to just waste time and wait for the player to come back on the field. this wil take another 10 min of NOT FOOTBALLING.
3. The players also are going to find a way to get another player the card by mind games, wich means that there will be af is it isnt already a low amount already.. NO concentration on the game wich means no more serious footballing. by the end of the 90 min there will be an extreme amount of time being added, also here, only mind games.
R.I.P Football
The time wasting argument is not an argument. Referees should be adding more injury time. Who cares how much more time is added? That's a good thing.
Time wasting being an issue, wouldn't that support adding a stop clock into football though?
If you simply stop the clock so time played remains the same, and increase bookings for time wasting, players will time waste less no?
@@AholeAtheist Because the added time is being wasted by time wasting and is not added..
@@Bagster321 i agree
The Blue Card will only make the abuse against Refs even worse. Any rule change like this, good idea or bad idea, will be automatically hated by fans because fans are irrational. The second that a ref pulls a blue card, that ref is going to get shouted abuse. Also, the subjectivity of calls because of grey areas in-between the card levels increases. So that also opens refs up to more abuse.
100% - Blue card offense would be so subjective. I understand a lot of red cards issued are pretty contentious, but this just opens up even more complexity. Agree with Ange, just additional clutter in the game that isn't needed. Refs need to be more consistent and have massive balls to make the right decisions. I definitely do not understand why anyone would want to be a referee tbh... only good thing is getting to be on the same field as the players.
I mean the blue card isn't meant to stop abuse against refs from fans, it's meant to stop abuse from players. Which is probably would do if it was known that you get sinbinned if you start shouting at the ref. I don't particularly like the change but your conflating two different abuses.
@@caffs7777 yellow card is also subjective. But with the blue card you dont need to give a player second yellow for arguing which is a far more harsh punishment.
The sensitivities of each ref can also be complex in that one ref can be fine with some players going to his face and yell "that was nothing ref, stop inventing!" and some can be pissed off if the player kicks the ground after he gets a yellow.
And the clutter, the reason a lot of fans get pissed off at refs is because they make a lot of mistakes, and a lot of these mistakes are because of the pressure of handling lots of stuff at the same time, implementing a new card that has a lot of moving parts on how it works is going to just make their jobs harder.
I mean, I don't how it will make it worse.. This has been trialed in the league I play in(one of six second tier leagues in New Zealand), and it hasn't really resulted in more or less abuse as far as I can tell. Sometimes they've binned players a bit too easily, but I think refs should just get thicker skin. It's usually only words. But I can see how an extra card for sin binning based on professional fouls is a good idea. I think a straight red can sometimes be a harsh punishment.
i agree i cannot be an on field referee but i can easily be better that the people in the VAR room
As a referee, I hate the idea of sending a player to the sin bin for dissent.
This idea that his teammates will be annoyed at him for getting himself essentially sent off for being chatty isn’t going to happen, they’ll just be angry at me for sending him to the sin bin, only it’s worse than just booking him, because they’re now down to 10 men.
With all we've been seeing so far, I don't think the refs need more power
In youth leagues in the Netherlands there is already a similar rule where on a yellow the player has to leave the pitch for 10 minutes. Even at the under 15s people time waste, managers shout at the ref when 8 minutes are past to get their player back in.. It doesn't work.
Hey Z! Long time watcher - first time (probably) commenter.
I happen to work in the front office of a professional football league that is a member of the World Leagues Forum and I promise that a major change to these rules will only ever happen once tested in lower leagues/levels that volunteer to be trial subjects. It will take bigger leagues longer to then make the switchover.
Did a small internet research about it, and there is a pilot for this. It has been running in England since 2019 - players at academy level get 10 minutes "bans", without a card shown to them (as in Handball where the ref just lift two fingers and points at the player I guess)
The only thing that is actually new is the card itself.
It was said to be Orange at first but now it was decided to change it to Blue so there won't be any confusion.
Anyways, there is a pilot in the running and the EPL are said to want to be the first pro league to try it.
Hey Z, please upload these to spotify under podcasts, would love to listen to these on the go. Love the content, keep it up ❤
The sin-bin model seems to work in rugby union with the yellow card, but I feel it makes much more sense for that style of game where you basically need all your players to form a solid defensive line when the opposing team is attacking. With football, not so much... it opens the door to timewasting, where a team can just tiki-taka for the 10 minutes.
Hey zealand, i just wanted to say,
I love this channel!
The refereeing standards in England and Scotland are of such a poor quality compared to the rest of Europe, this will undoubtedly make their jobs much more difficult
Wise words from Big Ange
I teach English, I use YT, sometimes I slow down the videos for teaching to x0.75 speed… so I’m listening to Zea and I’m thinking “this naughty bugger has been on the sauce, slurring his words, completely out of it!”… then I realised😅
😂
would it mean they would have to var blue cards as well?
Uh oh...
Zealandism put me in the sin bin
We have to be honest about the quality of reefing also because it's horrendous atm
I've had to umpire a Little League game and had the two most confrontational managers and a bunch of angry family members in a game when I had to cover everything but home plate. It was absolute hell. And mind you, this was still over 20 years ago when things were still calmer. Now? It can only be worse. And the higher the level and stakes? The worse the abuse must be. I can't imagine how it must be for refs.
One simple solution ... retrospective yellow cards. All matches (at the highest levels) are reviewed anyway so allow yellows to be retrospectively issued for simulation, poor behavior, timewasting, etc.
Red cards are incredibly rare. What if this was saved for like something that is 50/50 red?
Thanks Zealand for an other very interesting video !
I want to share my toughts about that, for me the main problem are not the ref but the rules in general ! We all feel that there is too much problem with ref decision, and all want to improve the game. The situation it's so bad that everywhere we can see the word "corruption" coming out for every mistake that the ref make... but if we watch with intellignce we can see that even in middle table game, decision are awfull and for both side (maybe one day, one more than the other of course). So what is the problem with the rules ? Only talking about the cards, we can see that ref don't applys stricktly the rules (ex : "It's the first foult of the game, so you don't recieve one ; the opposite dude make a foult just after you, so no card for compensation ; you make a little foult like nothing but you're booked, because it was 3 foults straight just before you, and after that you make a big one, but like you receive a card for almost nothing just before, the ref forgive you this one, etc. etc.). So we can see that the reglementation ask for too much yellow and the ref must manage the distribution of cards for the balance of the game, if he's not, we are 7vs7 at halftime ! The balance of 2 yellow for a red, is also very strong if we want to apply the rules ! the refs know that ! so they take liberties on the distribution and of course, like that, it cannot be a fair game. So the bleue card looks interesting but in fact don't solve the problem because is also very strick ! The ref will must deal, in the exact same way, with the balance of the game (if he already kick out 3 men, did he kick out antother one, o express compassion for football)... And the idea of sending off for 10 mins a player makes no sense in a 11 players team. If you defending with a 442 or a 441 there is almost no difference (except for counter attack)! And the result will be that the team will block the game 10 min, losing time, blocking in denfense, making the most boring game ever. And no one is winning with that kind of rules. For me, the idea that seems the most logical and pratical, it's a balance of 5 yellows for a red, like in Basketball. Because this allow to the ref to give a yellow everytime that is deserve without fear, and the player to manage better the possibilities to be send off.
We also have the exact same problem with penalties ! Penalties are too radical, it's 90% of the time giving a goal.. The ref feel that presion, and the big decision that is, so for a little push they don't give foult, for a strange hand, they close their eyes, etc. Again it's like the rules can change for the balance of the game depending of the judgment of the ref... I think the referees try to manage the game for giving us a nice game to play or watch. But in fact, respectivly for the reglementation that kind of liberties are just mistakes. I don't know what solution we can bring for an alternative to the penalties, but for the yellow for me is pretty clear that the balance 5 for a red, will give a fare better fair game, easy actuation by the ref, and better understanding by the public of what is happening.
Sorry for the loooong message, i let myself go a little bit. And I hope that my english is not too bad !
I think that they need to address the 90min game time rule... How many games recently have been won or lost in 'injury time' 90+mins.
American football and Rugby Stops the clock if ball is out of play
Refs should just be adding more injury time than they are. Games being won or lost in injury time isn't a problem. Refs not adding enough time because players are getting away with too much time wasting is.
Wow. A Jet was going by exactly when Zealand said something about it. I'm near an Air Force base and an airport so it's not rare, but what timing.
The problem with the Blue Card/Sinbin, is that a) it should probably happen on yellow card infractions, and b) talking back to the ref in most other sports (baseball, basketball) is an immediate ejection, which would be a red.
As a forest fan that has seen a player (Willy boly) get a second yellow for a tackle in which he was 6 yards from another player and being sent off. Referees missing key penalties… sure what I need is blue cards introduced… not. We would be fucked. On top of that, you’re right I couldn’t ref a prem game, but neither can our refs 🤷🏻♂️ if I was that bad at my job, I’d get fired. We have received around 6-7 apology’s from the PGMOL which is fucking mental when it comes to VAR. referees need to work on themselves and also HAVE to be interviewed after the game when they make a mistake.
I would be absolutely howling if an actual PL ref is watching Zealand tell the audience they're not capable of reffing a PL game
When I played indoor soccer we had blue cards. They worked well, but it worked in a smaller space where it’s hard to time waste, smaller game and with children. The blue card was 2 minutes, but you could make a sub so it wasn’t anything like a red. It was just get off the field and come back 2 minutes later or just take a break.
The blue card feels like techs on dissent in the NBA. Refs in basketball tend to make frivolous calls on the players because they are showing reactionary emotion to a call. Or, a ref has a vendetta against a specific player that the league has to deal with (see Chris Paul).
Yeah, it's been trialed in my league, and we've kind of had that problem a little bit, but we also have fuck all refs, so maybe it might help get more of them eventually. I also just think refs should have a thicker skin with regard to players disagreeing with decisions. The idea of a blue card for professional fouls will probably be good though.
Nah, we don't need more power in the referee's hands just because they're being abused by players
They'll end up becoming divas with overly fragile egos like the refs in the NBA handing out technical fouls because someone is breathing near him
I mean, yeah, they've been trialing this in my league for a few seasons, and some of the refs have very thin skin, but then we have very few refs so if we get more because they can tell players to piss off for ten minutes, it's probably helpful. Personally, I think the sin binning for professional fouls is a good idea. Straight reds can be a bit harsh sometimes.
Blue cards will slown the game down way to much, if they take 9 minutes on a var check to see if my left ball bag is off side just think how long checks for blue cards will take
And when I write in that stream that as a reff my self in Slovenia, that sin bin will be nonsense, I was attacked from you and muted. Nice personal growth btw in meantime
love you Z
ive been saying for years if a new card was gonna be introduced it should be this - Orange Card: Used for 2nd yellows or fouls that are more than yellow but not straight red, player is sent off BUT a sub may be brought on to replace him. Keeping the team to 11 but the player in question is gone.
Hey Zealand - Go Tampa Bay Lightning
I can see giving a blue card for talking back to the referee or some other action that doesn't involve on the field play. If you allow it to be used for on field play, that would incentivise more intentional fouls to get the opponents out of rhythm and further hinder the playmakers from being able to make the plays.
Hey, some Americans watch you! Totally agree with your point
Honestly blue cards wont ever work unless you introduce stop clock in football, now once ball is out play you just wanna waste more and more time for blue card to expire, oh var check happens? pressure on ref to make fast decision so it doesnt take away much time from blue card.
They already take five minutes to come to an incorrect decision. Rushing them would make it worse, and then more abuse from fans
Why? Refs should just get better at adding time, like they're fucking supposed to.
Speaking of trying new ideas in lower (or youth) leagues, in Czech lower divisions there's a rule that if a match ends in a draw after 90 minutes, it's followed by a penalty shootout, the winner of which gets an extra point. Ice hockey is quite popular here as well, so that's probably where they got the idea, but like what's wrong with a draw? Sometimes the teams can't be separated on a match day, so they both get a point a think towards the next game. What's the point of having a minigame for an extra point after that? Especially when it's done by penalties, which are notoriously very luck dependent.
Plus I absolutely loathed it in FM. I would go very attacking around the 80th minute if the game was at a draw, just to avoid watching the shootout.
Fifa suggested implementing that for the world cup when they suggested having groups of three. Idk why they ever thought that it would be a good idea, but that just shows there are incompetent people at every level
Personally, I think they should do it like basketball. Generally only for knockout stages/cup matches though. So if a game ends in a draw, they should have the regular extra time, then if it's still a draw, they should have reoccurring 10 minute periods of golden goal extra time.
I have heard that the concept of blue cards might be tested in MLS which it being a professional all be it a much lower level of soccer means it would provide valuable stats on how effective it is
Haven't they already been tested at lower/youth levels? The news was that "professional fouls" were being added to the list of blue card offences, in addition to dissent
Yeah, we've had the dissent sin bin for a few years in my league.
The clear problem with cards for dissent is that it isn't at all consistent between different referees, teams and matches. Man City barely ever get yellows despite crowding the referee but someone else gets sent off for throwing their hands in the air in frustration
The Blue Card isn't going to be beween a yellow and a red card, It's only for cynical fouls and dissent.
Hey Zealand, what do you think about the new MLS rules as regards to time-wasting and injury “sin bin” kind of rules?
The argument of it only resulting in time wasting is understandable. Especially with the 11v10 being a less drastic difference than the 5v4 in Icehockey.
I also think that with VAR still (for some reason) not working nearly as well as it should it might be better to let everybody figure that out first.
In any case from the reports I read the blue card WILL be first tested out in smaller leagues or cup competitions before it gets anywhere close to appearing in the top five leagues.
Theyre actually will have a testphase for the blue cards in amateurleagues
We've already had sin bin yellow cards in our league for about three seasons.
i got a lot of Blue cards while playing in the lowest Austrian League.
Blue cards are nothing new and my career ended when i was 21.
3 years in the first team as a Striker with a total of 5 Goals lol
The risk is that the referee is going to get overloaded and make an error when keeping track of multiple players in the sin bin. Not in top flight games, where some off-field official in the VAR cabin can do the job for them, but in the lower leagues where there is no VAR.
Can you imagine a grass roots ref trying to manage a game without a 4th official or even linesmen?!
This is without the mechanics of differentiating what is only a yellow card offence and what merits a straight red card changing to add an intermediate level - so the ref now has to discriminate between what merits a yellow card, what a blue and what a straight red card. This makes the job of a referee more difficult rather than helping them.
At present there is no mention of how the blue card would impact upon the carding sytem function. Will it be a simple traffic light escalation, where the first bookable (yellow card) foul gets a yellow, the second a blue and the third a red or will a player be able to incur multiple blue cardings during a match?
There is also the physical impact upon players' bodies to be considered. Going from game intensity to static and then back to game intensity could lead to an increase soft tissue injuries.
Also the player will return to the pitch after having had a significant break so may be more energetic than the other players for the remainder of that half. Thus a team might suffer a small period under the cosh, regain possession then play a time-wasting containment for the remainder of the penalty period, but then get the reward oftheir player in a better physical state after having spent the time resting and loading up on fluids, salts and glucose. Even if the player is forbidden to drink anything, they are going to return in a better state than if they had spent the time running about like the other players. Or will players have to spend the time jogging on the spot or running up and down along the side of the pitch?
If it is cold would the player be allowed to don a coat to stay warm? If it was hot could they chill off (dousing with water or using a fan)? If it was wet could they don dry kit? Could the player change boots for ones with studs more appropriate to the pitch? There are plenty of things to consider.
Lastly there is the physical location of any sin-bin. Many EFL pitches predate FIFA pitchside space regulations so have very limited space at the side of the pitch. Linesmen take up diagonally opposite sections and subs warming up take up another section near their bench. Thus the only section available will on the far side of the pitch or between goalposts and corner flags, so that will be away from 4th official control and might necessitate another official to supervise that area.
I can only presume that IFAB have brought this up so that the participants and the supporters can have their say and the reactions can be monitored, thus I hope it gets killed off before even being subjected to testing.
As a Indoor Soccer and hockey fan, go Blue card! If they want to make it work, they should stop the clock and not start it again until ref whistle.
First, thank you Zealand for sharing your view (and how it changed once you gained more information).
When considering this, there are definitely different views, but also the perspectives are different. There are a few countries that have an overlap with hockey. Americans that enjoy football (soccer) and hockey can see the similarities.
The time wasting can definitely be a bad outcome, but aren't there rules (maybe depending on the governing body) preventing excessive time wasting? I thought there was. As much as it could be painful, add a clock. Bring it past the centerline in an amount of time. I don't like any part of this, if you ask me. I just can't see another option past- be respectful to the game.
I specifically say this because this wouldn't even need to be an issue if people (players, fans) wouldn't be detrimental to the game. Respect the game and none of this would be necessary.
Just test it in the Australian A League. Hard to make that league any worse than it is.
Its been tested in lower league football and was well received
Why isn’t there a 2nd or even 3rd on field official?
Yea as much as we like to complain about change, there have been other places that have implemented it successfully.
If they wanted to imput sin bins (which I'm not 100% against) I'm in favour of it being the first Yellow card, like in other sports. Yes, that might cause problems where there could be a few players off at once but we could still have it with the blue card. First Yellow = Sin Bin (10 Min), Second Yellow = Red Card, would still fit in the curent structure.
Probably better if they made it 3 yellows equals a red. First yellow, just a caution, second yellow in the bin, third yellow then red. And only straight red cards for violent conduct.
The game has functioned for hundreds of years without any need for the blue card or sinbins. Unlike in other sports like Rugby Union, football has less players on the field and formation tactics are typically far more rigid. Any removal of a player from the field is a complete disadvantage to the specific team, even when it’s due to a player being taken off a treatment, therefore combined with a low scoring system in football and games sometimes simply being decided on a single goal it completely ruins the balance of the game. This is the complete wrong solution.
Yellow and red cards were invented in the 1970s, so almost 100 years are the first laws were codified. Changes were done to the rules before. One major change was that goalkeepers can't pick up back passes anymore, which is essential, that was only in the 90s, or quite recently that opposition players can enter the penalty box for the goal kick, etc. Or the substitutes: this is also quite recent and 5 subs is only in the game since Covid.
Whether this is a good idea, we will see, but this thing that the game is unchanged for centuries is false.
@@thargoff I never stated that the game has remain unchanged since it’s inception nor that it should’ve been. My point is that it is a completely foreign concept to the game from other sports that in theory does not work for football. For example, what if one of the players that gets the blue card is the goalkeeper? He is only specialist position on the field for each team and to remove him is to utterly disadvantage them. What do you in this situation? Do you sub on the substitute goalkeeper only to waste another substitution to get him off the field when the sinbin time for the original goalkeeper is finished?
so your argument is "it's been this way for ages and it's been fine, so why change it?"
well, the problem with that argument is that the game has changed, the culture has changed, and the rules are no longer fit for purpose.
You are making the same argument that was made by people when rubgy introduced the sinbin, and they were shown to be completely wrong, and now no-one would want the sinbin to be removed from rugby.
@@bipolarminddroppings Rugby Union is a different game from football, both in physicality and in the game’s structure. For example, Rugby’s scoring system is different with three separate ways to get points in a game leading to scorelines that typically end in double digits and with bigger margins between teams. In football, there is only one way to score, with scorelines typically only being decided by a single goal. In Rugby Union, there are 15 players on the field, whereas in football there are only 11 with one of those players being a goalkeeper, effectively forced to stay within a very specific area by the nature of the game, meaning that there is more tactical flexibility within Rugby because there is a bigger margin for error.
Also Rugby’s far more physical nature to football requires it to stop fights from just breaking out, football has the inverse problem where fouls can be given for even the slightest contact. What works for a sport like Rugby does not necessarily translate to football. If we’re simply going to make arguments for it because that’s how other sports do it, then what was the argument against the European Super League since that’s how the American sports leagues structure themselves.
@@Guns_Blazin I imagine they'll probably make a new rule for that. Like a rolling sub for one outfield player, so they come off for the reserve GK, then both that player and the first choice GK come back on at the end of the ten minutes. With the sub not counting against their substitution count.
Another thought: what will happen when a goalie gets a blue card?
Does the guy just run out after 10 min? Does the ref keep the time for the blue card guy while doing everything else he has to do and give the ok?
most pro league games have VAR as well as a 4th ref on the sidelines (the guy that keeps the managers in check, checks the subs for their gear and holds up the sign for the subs as well as the added time) I can imagine the 4th ref in combo with VAR can easily keep track of the sin bin penalty time
You should make a video on what's going on in the bundesliga right now with the fan protests
Imagine the following scenario i just made up:
- The blue card rule makes it so that only the *captain* of each team can complain to the ref
- Due to complaints, the goalkeeper won't be subjected to the blue card rule
- Every team immediately appoints their goalkeeper as team captain
Why won't the GK be subject to it? I would think they will just make a rule that if a GK is sin binned, an outfield player gets a rolling sub whereby they are taken off for the reserve GK, then after the ten minutes both the first choice GK and the outfield player can both return to the pitch and the reserve GK comes off.
@@AholeAtheist that's what i thought, i was just assuming that it could be considered "needless clutter" and due to pressure from managers and teams, the board decides to exempt GKs altogether from the rule, leading to this funny situation i just came up with lol
@@Damian_1989 I would imagine my scenario would be more likely, even if some consider it "clutter". But we'll just have to wait and see.
A couple of things about this.. Firstly, this HAS been trialed. In the league I play in, which is one of the six second tier leagues in New Zealand, we've had yellow cards(blue cards in this scenario) for dissent that result in ten minute sin binning. I would say that it's a bit shit for the fact a lot of our refs have too thin skin. They should really just get used to and brush off dissent. Like, it's not that bad. It's usually just words. Having said that, I think it's a good idea for professional fouls. Straight red can be a harsh punishment.
The thing about time wasting is weird to me, and I don't think it's a good argument. The refs need to get better at accounting for it and adding more injury time. It's been known for a long time that they don't add enough. Neither is the argument that it "clutters" the game.
The last thing is, why is it a blue card? Surely it should be orange to stick with the same hue.
Some people have trouble distinguishing orange from red
@@Phateagle262 Ok, well I guess that makes sense then. I would say make the lowest form of caution a green card then, but colour blind people can't see green very well either from what I understand.
I believe they are gonna test the blue cards first in lower leagues, so we'll see how that goes. The point about time wasting, i think that's something that should be minimalised a lot because nowadays it happens so much... And well maybe the blue cards would be good for that? You wasting time constantly? Get off the field. If it does work like that then i would be on board, much more action then
If you want to add time penalties, just add a time penalty on the yellow card. Making it a mini-red. cause you can argue that the penalty of a yellow card is often not severe enough. On occasion people will get them on purpose
I think that could work if they make it 3 yellows equals a red, and remove straight reds for professional fouls, while making the second yellow a ten minute sin bin. So first yellow just a caution, second yellow sin bin, third yellow then red, and straight red only for violent conduct against players or referees.
MASL has a blue card ( I think it's been a while) and the team with a player down puts in more defenders and just defend/waste time.
Receiving a sin bin for a cynical foul is so ridiculous. I’ve saw Rodri give away 3 cynical fouls in a game without getting booked but referees in the same competition jump at the first chance to book Allan for the same thing. Blue cards would only increase the “abuse” towards referees for being inconsistent with another rule.
Blue cards seem like a useless addition to the game tbh. So, I personally have 2 rules ideas that I *think* would actually make the game better instead.
1: just like hockey, every team gets 3 VAR calls each game. That's it. They can ask for a review whenever theh feel they have been wronged, but after 3 reviews it's done. This would give teams more agency, and hopefully a bigger sense of justice.
2: offside is only called if the player that was cought offside also has a first touch behind the defensive line. That would put an end to a lot of useless offside calls. But this is more of a pet peeve 😂
They can have blue cards all they want but just ban Anthony Taylor from being able to use them
I'd love to say that there is no time wasting in football matches currently - except VAR - especially by a leading team but that would be a huge lie.
Oddly enough rugby - at least in recent world cup - was able to use video to solve situations very quickly without breaking the flow. Wonder if football(soccer) could learn things from its dark side?
My uncle was a referee
MLB tested rule changes in the minor leagues for years before implementing them in the majors. You can't just drop something like this out of the sky.
Orange card never passed the test , do not thing this do .
We could test it out in Football Manager😂
Having played with the sin bin at Sunday league level for 2 years now I haven’t really noticed that much of a change. You just tell your rowdiest player to shut up or the captain steps in and walks him away from the ref. The cards aren’t that often however, when they do happen in Sunday league we have rolling subs making it easier to reshape the team. At prem level this won’t be the case and managers would have to waste a sub to bring on an extra defender or to reorganise the midfield. I just can’t see how that will work to be honest but I’m all for protecting the refs. Just need to give out more yellow cards for harassing the refs
not entirely sure where I stand on the blue card issue, but it is absolutely insane to me that they might implement this in the premier league without testing this for at least a year in the lower leagues. like put it in league 1 and see what happens. mlb does this all the time
They have been testing it. My league has sin bins for dissent for the past three seasons. They haven't done the professional foul one yet though. At least not in my league or any league I'm aware of.
Sinbins already in football in non league in England it’s inconsistent same as ref decisions on it
Imagine a blue card being awarded in the 80th minute and your down a goal 😭😭 also the other way around if your defending a lead and they take one of your players away at the dying minutes 😭😭😭
The goalkeeper blue card rule will be insane. Can't wait to see more outfield players having shots at fellow outfield players who to be in goal
They'll probably introduce a rule where you can sub a goalkeeper on for an outfield player, then at the end of the ten minutes, that same outfield player and the first choice keeper can both come back on and the reserve keeper comes off. Maybe. IDK.
@AholeAtheist yes but it proves his point that things would be complicated
I have been calling for the introduction of a blue card for a while (though I called it orange) but I think it would only work if it was used in very specific situations. I don't think fouls between a red or yellow should be blue cards as that can only end badly, especially if they use VAR to check.
No for me blue cards should only be for professional fouls. So fouls in which a player deliberately impedes another player in order to stop a counter attacking opportunity. I am sick to death of watching teams share around yellow cards as it is preferable to take one than allow a counter attack to develop and if it is preferable to take a yellow card then a yellow card is not an adequate punishment. Professional fouls are also very obvious I don't think there would be a use for VAR.
A punishment is only a punishment if the repercussions are perceived as worse than the benefits and a blue card solves this issue.
Yeah, I agree, should be orange, not a blue card. But I also think it maybe shouldn't just be for all professional fouls, but only for last man fouls that would normally be a straight red. IDK, maybe all professional fouls would be good in terms of the fact it might create less of them, and thus more scoring opportunities, which might increase scorelines. IDK, maybe it would be good for both.
I would rather introduce a card below the yellow. So if he gets two of those he gets a yellow. And that card would be primarily for arguing with the reff. It would be like a caution before a yellow card. Bc arguing with the reff has become obnoctious IMO. One thing is to ask the reff why has he made that decision but other is when 5.guys from each team start shouting at him. So 10 players get the semi yellow card and next time they will know.
Ladies and gents.....they're trying to bring hockey rules to soccer...please make it stop. Also, couldn't this be an episode of 20 Good Minutes?
Refs dont receive enough criticism and slander at the highest level
Everyone including Ange is paying attention to the team that gets the blue card wasting time. What about the other team? If Man City got a blue card against a lesser team? Suddenly that lesser team has 10 minutes of advantage they really need to exploit... they're often going to press like crazy. Regardless, the blue card with introduce ten minutes of TACTICAL INSTABILITY, which, to me, sounds incredibly interesting.
I agree, it should be tested. People hate change and will latch on to any shortcomings of new ideas, so we need to protect against that. But we also need to recognize the blatant shortcomings that already exist in the sport.
Referee's need to grow a pair and send players off for dissent. It would be a mess to start with but if they stuck to their guns and kept sending players off we would definitely see players be more careful when approaching or talking to the ref. Blue cards are dumb IMO
Football × Rugby is crazy
Cynical foul = deliberate foul and there's a card for that and it's a yellow and the same for decent. The FA need to define abuse to the ref to a more solid definition and that's that, things are sorted
The point is, that sometimes cynical fouls are straight red, and that can be harsh, so if they have another option, it might be a bit less harsh. You're right about defining dissent a bit better though.
@@AholeAtheist" sometimes cynical fouls are straight red"..your words and that true, if it yellow or red thats all you need no inbetween to make people feel better
Personally as a grassroots referee in the US, i really do not want to see blue cards. I just say don’t be afraid to use yellow cards, and don’t be afraid to use the red if it’s needed. Blue cards make it more complicated, and are more of a bandaid on the issue of referee abuse.
Blue cards have existed in American soccer, alas in indoor soccer. The smaller amount of players on the field made it make some sense. And yes, time wasting and return of the player after a goal are things in that setup.
Ange is right. Blue cards would slow down the game and make the game less fun, like VAR.
Ultimately, referees need to be braver and be more protected by the laws of the game(In the US, touching a referee is can get you a battery charge). When players crowd the referee, you have two types of referees, one's who "give the benefit of the doubt" and lets all the players yell at him which reduces his authority. And ones who hand out yellow cards like the Florida DMV gives out drivers licenses(Zealand will understand this reference). I personally am the latter, I've given 8 yellow cards to one team in a match before, 11 total. I don't care about the paperwork, I care that the game is under control as that's my job as the referee, and ultimately players that yell at the match official aren't under control. It's the same thing if a player takes out an opponent in a dangerous way and I issue a red card. Fans will be like, "the referee killed the game", no, the moron who tried to do someone's ACL is the person who killed the game.
Use the tools given to you as a referee and you'll be a very good referee. Leave them in your pocket and you'll get played for a fool. And just for reference, the yellow cards I'd give would show teams I wasn't up for BS, thus making my use of a red card very rare(3 while refereeing more than 10k games(youth, HS, college, adult) as they understood what was expected of them.