As I wrote previously, complicated systems introduce complicated issues. "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler" and this is what I stick to during software development. WG forgot about this rule completely.
Not to be a conspiracy theorist, but from other competitive games, I would not be surprised if the top clan battles players knew of this and abused it to great effect. It's not terribly uncommon for top players in other games to lie about the meta, or hide valuable bugs/exploits/tactics from the general player base so they can have even more of an advantage, I mean just think of the advantage this could give to those top players. Wonder if that's also why Conde was such a popular pick for those clan battle seasons. Considering you would figure the utility that Annapolis brings would make it more popular in clan battles.
Lets give BBs a 3rd type of shells, air burst shells, so they can nuke an entire flight group just for fun, well you ask for a way to de-plane a CV and this sounds like a fun one.
hmm.. Now i know why when i used F button i wasnt impresed with the results... since i have a habiit of deactivating the f button after shooting.... So the shells turned into regular shells...
That's honestly the bigger issue, sure some people can and will exploit the heck out of it but most players are going to be unintentionally nerfing themselves.
The artillery bugs in this game are my biggest issue. As a bb player the short shell bug and high flyer bug are so annoying… cause I either get one of those or over pens … and a light cruiser just burns me to death lol but realism
The shells falling short hurts me most, then I shoot high and suddenly the bug’s fixed itself and now I’ve fired just barely too high and get a single over pen in the radar tower
Pretty sure the in game credit earnings in Operations has been nerfed too. Use to make 1m easily, now struggle to break 250k. Sunk 11 ships the other day, over 600 secondary hits, countless torp hits, flooding etc and barely made 200k.
Seems like they could have just reduced the range of spotting by air by half and given ships better AA or increase a ships AA the more planes they shoot down. It really was a simple fix.
EU got a +20 year old server, which is pushed to the limit. When they did the rework, People started to demand 15vs15 to decrease the impact of CVs, instead we got SS. They also closed down Offices, some with importance to the game, losing experience. Now They have to fix bugs that now appear from their spaghetti codes.
I usually use F to use burst fire before the last salvo hits the enemy ship. Sometimes I use F again (cancel it) because of a variety of reasons, like the enemy ship I was going to fire at becoming undetected or angling too much. It's not going to be easy to understand when F is used deliberately to gain advantage or not.
Not surprising... If I were to guess, the shells probably just have a reference back to the gun (or where ever the shell statistics are held... the stat block) it was fired from and when a collision occurs (shell hits something) it looks up the stats (through the reference) to do the various calculations. When shells couldn't change during the game, that made sense. So the burst mode changes the stats of the shells, it would modify that stat block which means any shells in flight would get the new stats when they land and did the lookup. If that's the case, then probably what they would need to do would be include all the stats for the shell in every shell, which is copied there when the shell is fired, then it can look up the stats-as-when-fired when they hit. Or they could keep the reference idea and just have another stat block (so one for HE, one for AP, one for alternate firing mode HE) and the shells, when fired, just reference the appropriate stat block. Anyway, there are a number of reasons why something like this could happen and a number of ways to fix it, I guess.
It's just a matter of retaining the info or query the burst status from when they were fired. The issue here is that they are terrible coders and probably have some basic "IF burst icon is selected" kind of thing
I feel like it was a process saving feature, you don't need to calculate if the shell pens armor, does it ricochet etc if it doesn't hit the ship. Having that process run on impact, rather than when firing, especially with such long delays between firing and a hit, it seems like it is the only real option to calculate that when a round hits, the computer can't KNOW weather every shell hits when you fire 20km out in Vermont. It seems more like devs didn't realize that by giving some of these new super ships and other with funny buttons, by tweaking damage done and penetration ON IMPACT, it opens it up to this exact situation. It has been over 2 years since Conde was introduced, so while I really can't believe we're only NOW finding out about this if it really has been going on that long, it seems like it'd fit with the bare minimum I know of game design that it was either just forgotten, overlooked, or it was hoped we wouldn't notice.
Ive done this by mistake a lot in the Edger. The first few shells are used to check my aim and I pop the alt fire mode while a few shells are still in the air.
People WILL exploit this, just as much as the invincible bug does. They don’t care if they get ban. In WeeGee fashion. Banning players is only going to last 3 days, a week or two. It is super rare that WeeGee will ban you permanently.
Its kind of funny that this bug might have been ingame since introduction of combat instruction with the first superships. And it took till introduction of Jacksonville that general public noticed the bug. Some tin foil hat time. Since apparently this bug has been ingame for a long time.... Did the top players noticed it before when they played Conde's during clan battles and KOTS tournaments?
Coming from other competitive games... it's very likely that top players knew of the bug and kept it under effectively a soft NDA, because top players want to win, and this sort of bug helps them win more often against those who don't know about it.
I don't know how they would know for sure someone is purposely exploiting this unless it's done almost every shot. It is very common to shoot and then immediately hit the f key so you are ready as soon as your next shot comes up. You don't want to have to think about hitting f while you're aiming your next shot if you don't have to.
I think the most painful mistake that I still accidentally make is when I use alt fire mode and then try to switch shell types after I fire the salvo…you get stuck waiting the whole longer time again. I’ve don’t this on Spanish cruisers after like 15-20 seconds of the reload has gone by and then reset it back to 30 seconds of reload.
@@clmwrx Because like in the GOOD OLD DAYS, BabyBoats shouldn't be left alone to play they aren't suited for that and CV's should crap on BB's which go off alone without cruiser DFAA. Maybe that would fix the MM issue where there are more babies in each team as cruisers.
@@MarvinWestmaaspeople still act like grouping up is going to stop CV from dropping you News flash: It’s doesn’t, I saw a malta go past a DFAA Halland and an DFAA Zao to drop an Izumo nonchalantly. It’s doesn’t matter, AA is a joke
The worst thing in the game now is the up tiering. The balance is lost and the amount of one sided battling has increased. T6 with T8 is complete bs especially when its the usual MM BS of having 2 cv's and 5 dd matches. Absolute buzz kill for the casual player.
i'm just wondering - can wow deter people from exploiting it (the F button help) by reversing the dmg? so people trying to exploit it end up causing the dmg to themselves?
After the split the art department was left in Russia. There is no art department at WG atm, there’s is no new map since forever, and the new ships is just a copypasta ships with stat-changed.
WG is still doing better than EZ/Dice with Battlefield2. Every big patch in BF2 needed 2-4 more patches to fix what they broke. And fix what the fix broke. And so on...
Alternative ammo is timed; do shells fired while in alternative ammo mode but which hit after the time expires change back to regular ammo? (Did you even bother to check that? No? So much for Investigative Reporting 101! A thorough investigation of all shell dynamics would have included what happened when the alternative mode expired. This reminds me somewhat of making a mountain out of a molehill, and reeks of Chicken Little Syndrome.)
Alternative Fire Mode isn’t timed. You’re either in it, or not. I believe you are thinking of Combat Instructions instead of Alternative Fire Mode. As this bug was reported in regards to Alternative Fire Mode, Combat Instructions were not tested
@@sealordmountbatten Question: if Alternative Fire Mode isn't timed, and it gives you superior shell damage with each round, why would anyone not be in Alternative Fire Mode full time? (And if they are, who cares if the damage from one salvo is regular or Alternative damage? You're talking one salvo of damage. Compared to the damage from one BB AP salvo, one torpedo plane salvo, or one submarine torpedo salvo, this damage is really nothing. Again, Chicken Little Syndrome.)
@@ellnoskitties3908because the downside of using Alternative Fire Mode is an exceptionally long reload time. For example, Conde has a 48s reload after using the Alternative mode. Which gives it much worse DPM overall when compared to the standard firing mode, even with the normal shells. This is true of most ships with this, with the exception of the Johnston. It’s designed to be something that you take advantage of in a moment, rather than a mode you constantly stay in.
@@sealordmountbatten Now you're making my point for me; "The Sky is NOT Falling." Back to my original question, when you shift, or click, or leave Alternative Fire Mode, do shells in flight revert back to the original shell damage or stay in Alternative Fire Damage? In a game where CVs produce their own aircraft, Subs are faster than some BBs and fire homing torps with unbelievable turning curves, and some ships get to repair in game while others are just stuck with the damage they accrue, this is what concerns you? Really?
@@ellnoskitties3908 if you swap back out of it while the shells are in the air, they do revert. I’m not sure where you’re getting “The Sky is Falling” vibe from. While I do think it’s a big deal, I nowhere in the video, title, or description exaggerate what this bug is. I don’t call it game breaking, or anything like that. It’s a big deal because the Alternative Firing Mode is NOT supposed to work like this, you are supposed to have the longer reload time after utilizing the improved shells/burst fire. This is a way to get around the balancing factor that is supposed to be there.
I don't care anymore. I'm going to exploit it, especially on the carrier player base just to piss them off. Please please someone find a bug to exploit subs. I want to piss that player base off also.
Every up grade makes the game crapper ,fix bugs by all means ,but the best thing WG can do is take the game back to the beginning were everything was more fun and less complicated,keep the good graphics by all means but get rid of all the bull shit
CV could've been simpler, but in WG fashion they just have to make it complicated. A simpler way to re-rework CVs is that just give the damn planes flying timer. You can no longer loiter around and spot people. Basically, you launch your planes. It gets timer. Timer runs out, it'll fly back. You launch new set. While at it, give delays when launching new set of planes (you can't just spam planes). There, simple solution for CV.
Then how do you deal with Essex who does not give a shit about what you just said? My bombers and rockets never come back to the ship, they just being summoned out of void every 2 minutes.
Oh yes, they can. Anyone that is clearly abusing said bug is aware of said bug, there for it's an exploit. It don't matter who's fault it is for creating the bug, at that point it's the players fault for exploiting it. This is common knowledge with all MMO type games.
@@quor2243but it's almost impossible to know if someone is using the bug. Only way I can see if someone is stupid enough to show it during a video of random or any non training romm battles.
@@haakonsteinsvaag If a player is reported for an exploit WG can watch all their game play and see if it's intentional or just by accident. Same with any other game.
As I wrote previously, complicated systems introduce complicated issues. "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler" and this is what I stick to during software development. WG forgot about this rule completely.
You didn't mention technical debt. That can be a major factor.
I have not seen the code for this game, so cannot comment on it.
Don't forget to quote Einstein!
World of warships tries to replicate shell physics to as close to real life as possible. Which does indeed make things complicated
@@simplyasteryand unintentionally make it so the shell can magically be swapped in thin air
👍Rule #1...KISS!
="Keep It Simple Stupid!"
Flamu said it best when he called it "spaghetti code". This game has more bugs than a New York ghetto apartment.
Not to be a conspiracy theorist, but from other competitive games, I would not be surprised if the top clan battles players knew of this and abused it to great effect. It's not terribly uncommon for top players in other games to lie about the meta, or hide valuable bugs/exploits/tactics from the general player base so they can have even more of an advantage, I mean just think of the advantage this could give to those top players. Wonder if that's also why Conde was such a popular pick for those clan battle seasons. Considering you would figure the utility that Annapolis brings would make it more popular in clan battles.
Lets give BBs a 3rd type of shells, air burst shells, so they can nuke an entire flight group just for fun, well you ask for a way to de-plane a CV and this sounds like a fun one.
Yamato had those IRL and they didn't work.
@@Paleorunner2 tirpitz had them as well and they worked quite a bit
@@Paleorunner2 I know, but this is a game
illuminating shells?
@@jayvee8502 Why?
hmm.. Now i know why when i used F button i wasnt impresed with the results... since i have a habiit of deactivating the f button after shooting.... So the shells turned into regular shells...
That's honestly the bigger issue, sure some people can and will exploit the heck out of it but most players are going to be unintentionally nerfing themselves.
At least for the railgun conde back in the day where you had no dispersion it's probably fine since it is calculated when you shoot.
The artillery bugs in this game are my biggest issue. As a bb player the short shell bug and high flyer bug are so annoying… cause I either get one of those or over pens … and a light cruiser just burns me to death lol but realism
Dallas is my favorite ship and you are 100% correct. BS mechanic
The shells falling short hurts me most, then I shoot high and suddenly the bug’s fixed itself and now I’ve fired just barely too high and get a single over pen in the radar tower
Pretty sure the in game credit earnings in Operations has been nerfed too. Use to make 1m easily, now struggle to break 250k. Sunk 11 ships the other day, over 600 secondary hits, countless torp hits, flooding etc and barely made 200k.
Seems like they could have just reduced the range of spotting by air by half and given ships better AA or increase a ships AA the more planes they shoot down. It really was a simple fix.
EU got a +20 year old server, which is pushed to the limit. When they did the rework, People started to demand 15vs15 to decrease the impact of CVs, instead we got SS.
They also closed down Offices, some with importance to the game, losing experience. Now They have to fix bugs that now appear from their spaghetti codes.
I usually use F to use burst fire before the last salvo hits the enemy ship. Sometimes I use F again (cancel it) because of a variety of reasons, like the enemy ship I was going to fire at becoming undetected or angling too much. It's not going to be easy to understand when F is used deliberately to gain advantage or not.
When it comes to code Wargambling couldn't send an SOS without Bolloxing the code up. 😮
Not surprising... If I were to guess, the shells probably just have a reference back to the gun (or where ever the shell statistics are held... the stat block) it was fired from and when a collision occurs (shell hits something) it looks up the stats (through the reference) to do the various calculations. When shells couldn't change during the game, that made sense. So the burst mode changes the stats of the shells, it would modify that stat block which means any shells in flight would get the new stats when they land and did the lookup. If that's the case, then probably what they would need to do would be include all the stats for the shell in every shell, which is copied there when the shell is fired, then it can look up the stats-as-when-fired when they hit. Or they could keep the reference idea and just have another stat block (so one for HE, one for AP, one for alternate firing mode HE) and the shells, when fired, just reference the appropriate stat block. Anyway, there are a number of reasons why something like this could happen and a number of ways to fix it, I guess.
It's just a matter of retaining the info or query the burst status from when they were fired. The issue here is that they are terrible coders and probably have some basic "IF burst icon is selected" kind of thing
I feel like it was a process saving feature, you don't need to calculate if the shell pens armor, does it ricochet etc if it doesn't hit the ship. Having that process run on impact, rather than when firing, especially with such long delays between firing and a hit, it seems like it is the only real option to calculate that when a round hits, the computer can't KNOW weather every shell hits when you fire 20km out in Vermont.
It seems more like devs didn't realize that by giving some of these new super ships and other with funny buttons, by tweaking damage done and penetration ON IMPACT, it opens it up to this exact situation. It has been over 2 years since Conde was introduced, so while I really can't believe we're only NOW finding out about this if it really has been going on that long, it seems like it'd fit with the bare minimum I know of game design that it was either just forgotten, overlooked, or it was hoped we wouldn't notice.
It amazes me how quickly they repair these bugs yet they still have bugs that are years old that never get addressed!
Its a good sign that the devs who have created and have been working with this code for almost 10 years still habe no idea how it works XD
Ive done this by mistake a lot in the Edger. The first few shells are used to check my aim and I pop the alt fire mode while a few shells are still in the air.
People WILL exploit this, just as much as the invincible bug does. They don’t care if they get ban. In WeeGee fashion. Banning players is only going to last 3 days, a week or two. It is super rare that WeeGee will ban you permanently.
This proves that literally anything can influence shells that are in flight. And that means a lot more than this alternative fire bug.
Its kind of funny that this bug might have been ingame since introduction of combat instruction with the first superships. And it took till introduction of Jacksonville that general public noticed the bug.
Some tin foil hat time. Since apparently this bug has been ingame for a long time.... Did the top players noticed it before when they played Conde's during clan battles and KOTS tournaments?
Coming from other competitive games... it's very likely that top players knew of the bug and kept it under effectively a soft NDA, because top players want to win, and this sort of bug helps them win more often against those who don't know about it.
I don't know how they would know for sure someone is purposely exploiting this unless it's done almost every shot. It is very common to shoot and then immediately hit the f key so you are ready as soon as your next shot comes up. You don't want to have to think about hitting f while you're aiming your next shot if you don't have to.
Btw, when I play Castilla, I can still see the F key aim bug, what put the second salvo way next to the aiming point
I was just paying respect....
I think the most painful mistake that I still accidentally make is when I use alt fire mode and then try to switch shell types after I fire the salvo…you get stuck waiting the whole longer time again. I’ve don’t this on Spanish cruisers after like 15-20 seconds of the reload has gone by and then reset it back to 30 seconds of reload.
BB AA is gonna be crap.
good
@MarvinWestmaas why good? Most Bb are already about defenseless against cvs
Bb with Def aa might be ok unless on cooldown lol
@@clmwrx Because like in the GOOD OLD DAYS, BabyBoats shouldn't be left alone to play they aren't suited for that and CV's should crap on BB's which go off alone without cruiser DFAA.
Maybe that would fix the MM issue where there are more babies in each team as cruisers.
@@MarvinWestmaaspeople still act like grouping up is going to stop CV from dropping you
News flash: It’s doesn’t, I saw a malta go past a DFAA Halland and an DFAA Zao to drop an Izumo nonchalantly. It’s doesn’t matter, AA is a joke
You forgot to tell that the reverse work too. And that player have nerfed themself without knowing
I think there is an RPF bug too? It feels like it's off some degrees like it's 5-10 degrees from center.. 🤔
It's designed that way. Back in the day exact rpf positioning proved to be gamebreaking.
I know, I abused it.
I wonder, will this be the case with alternate torpedos
Good point!
I don't think it does.
No, the torpedoes aren’t effected
@@sealordmountbatten i know because I tested it in a training room today
Should test the reverse also. If I burst fire I turn it off when shells are in flight. Do they loose the pen then?
It does
I wonder if this also means the opposite happens if you fire the burst then switch to normal mid flight you get lower pen on shells in flight
It does
What causes the "Bullet-Cam" that locks out my screen when uses artillery? How to I shut this off?
A better question is WHAT BUGS does this game NOT have?
The bug of good carrier gameplay.
@@Omnomface It used to.... not so much anymore. And so far the RE WORK RE WORK testing doesn't look so good.
The worst thing in the game now is the up tiering. The balance is lost and the amount of one sided battling has increased. T6 with T8 is complete bs especially when its the usual MM BS of having 2 cv's and 5 dd matches. Absolute buzz kill for the casual player.
Who ever figured this out should have kept their mouth shut and told nobody. They had a perfect thing going
They can't determine if someone is using this exploit or is someone who doesn't know about the issue.
Seems like it would be hard to tell
I swear I shot a ship point blank, and the shell just disappeared no damage. Could have been lag tho, I thought it was strange
i'm just wondering - can wow deter people from exploiting it (the F button help) by reversing the dmg? so people trying to exploit it end up causing the dmg to themselves?
by my thinking its a simple xy switch in the coding when dmg is assesed?
Wouldn't be particularly hard to fix this unless they've really made bad code to begin with.
I think this is mostly because of the arcade style aiming and ahell ballistics instead of realistic ballistics using real physics
I presume alternative shells in flight will switch back to normal shells, if you turn off the alternative firing mode mid-flight.
could be worse could be cv torpedo planes glitch and drop hundreds of torpedoes in one drop
Yes they will
Imagine the look on WG's face when they finally realize they need more than an art department.
After the split the art department was left in Russia. There is no art department at WG atm, there’s is no new map since forever, and the new ships is just a copypasta ships with stat-changed.
WGing and FIX doesn't compute !
Does the ammo affect also work in reverse?
Yes
should i buy guiseppe verdi or defence
Well Defence isn’t available atm
WG is still doing better than EZ/Dice with Battlefield2. Every big patch in BF2 needed 2-4 more patches to fix what they broke. And fix what the fix broke. And so on...
Is it the same in reverse if you use the F button and then turn it off. Will the multi salvo revert back to normal pen?
Yup
@@sealordmountbatten well in that case it's only fair people should know. Thanks.
Could it be by design? A hidden buff
I'm sure nobody...EVERYBODY is using this till they fix it...
There iz one more bug, keep looking you are close
Alternative ammo is timed; do shells fired while in alternative ammo mode but which hit after the time expires change back to regular ammo? (Did you even bother to check that? No? So much for Investigative Reporting 101! A thorough investigation of all shell dynamics would have included what happened when the alternative mode expired. This reminds me somewhat of making a mountain out of a molehill, and reeks of Chicken Little Syndrome.)
Alternative Fire Mode isn’t timed. You’re either in it, or not. I believe you are thinking of Combat Instructions instead of Alternative Fire Mode. As this bug was reported in regards to Alternative Fire Mode, Combat Instructions were not tested
@@sealordmountbatten Question: if Alternative Fire Mode isn't timed, and it gives you superior shell damage with each round, why would anyone not be in Alternative Fire Mode full time? (And if they are, who cares if the damage from one salvo is regular or Alternative damage? You're talking one salvo of damage. Compared to the damage from one BB AP salvo, one torpedo plane salvo, or one submarine torpedo salvo, this damage is really nothing. Again, Chicken Little Syndrome.)
@@ellnoskitties3908because the downside of using Alternative Fire Mode is an exceptionally long reload time. For example, Conde has a 48s reload after using the Alternative mode. Which gives it much worse DPM overall when compared to the standard firing mode, even with the normal shells. This is true of most ships with this, with the exception of the Johnston. It’s designed to be something that you take advantage of in a moment, rather than a mode you constantly stay in.
@@sealordmountbatten Now you're making my point for me; "The Sky is NOT Falling." Back to my original question, when you shift, or click, or leave Alternative Fire Mode, do shells in flight revert back to the original shell damage or stay in Alternative Fire Damage? In a game where CVs produce their own aircraft, Subs are faster than some BBs and fire homing torps with unbelievable turning curves, and some ships get to repair in game while others are just stuck with the damage they accrue, this is what concerns you? Really?
@@ellnoskitties3908 if you swap back out of it while the shells are in the air, they do revert. I’m not sure where you’re getting “The Sky is Falling” vibe from. While I do think it’s a big deal, I nowhere in the video, title, or description exaggerate what this bug is. I don’t call it game breaking, or anything like that.
It’s a big deal because the Alternative Firing Mode is NOT supposed to work like this, you are supposed to have the longer reload time after utilizing the improved shells/burst fire. This is a way to get around the balancing factor that is supposed to be there.
Let's fix superships..... get rid of them.
How in the hell did anyone figure this out?
hello
Hi
I don't care anymore. I'm going to exploit it, especially on the carrier player base just to piss them off. Please please someone find a bug to exploit subs. I want to piss that player base off also.
after ten years wg will have to redo the coding as it starts to get al weird after a decade
Every up grade makes the game crapper ,fix bugs by all means ,but the best thing WG can do is take the game back to the beginning were everything was more fun and less complicated,keep the good graphics by all means but get rid of all the bull shit
😊
One salvo of the alternate mode so who cares?
CV could've been simpler, but in WG fashion they just have to make it complicated.
A simpler way to re-rework CVs is that just give the damn planes flying timer. You can no longer loiter around and spot people.
Basically, you launch your planes. It gets timer. Timer runs out, it'll fly back. You launch new set. While at it, give delays when launching new set of planes (you can't just spam planes). There, simple solution for CV.
Then how do you deal with Essex who does not give a shit about what you just said? My bombers and rockets never come back to the ship, they just being summoned out of void every 2 minutes.
@@wenfuwei1396 Then fix Essex. Sounds like a bug. Why complicate things?
like planes can't see big ass ships this is idiotic. I'm glad I don't play this shit anymore.
WG cannot ban your account for a BUG in the game.
Oh yes, they can. Anyone that is clearly abusing said bug is aware of said bug, there for it's an exploit. It don't matter who's fault it is for creating the bug, at that point it's the players fault for exploiting it. This is common knowledge with all MMO type games.
@@quor2243 except most of the people playing will not know about this issue.
@@quor2243but it's almost impossible to know if someone is using the bug. Only way I can see if someone is stupid enough to show it during a video of random or any non training romm battles.
@@haakonsteinsvaag If a player is reported for an exploit WG can watch all their game play and see if it's intentional or just by accident. Same with any other game.
Legally, they can do anything with your account you all need to read the EULA
23 seconds 0 views, bro falloff
So how is using the game as provided somehow on us to negate bug?. Seems if they don't want players exploiting a bug, it's on them to fix the bug.
@@rottenrod2391 like I said, this one is fairly easy to accidentally do. I just wouldn’t outright exploit it