@@rb3020 That would be almost impossible as the savings primarily comes from the fact that it's a single PCB with soldered chips on it. Upgrading it would push the cost up towards that of a regular budget PC.
@@joey199412 your pseudo fits you well... If you can upgrade it, who cares about spending a bit more ? A movable socket doesn't cost a lot, it's just an excuse to sell whole new sbc at each release.
It truly is amazing how the old becomes new again! My first computer was a "keyboard PC". If anyone is interested look up the Vic20 from the early 80's
@@Sashazur Yeah, it was kind of like a C64. I'm not sure which one was older though. It used the old Polk programming language. I programmed my first video game on it!
That's why I'm interested in getting one of these. Reminds me of my childhood where the keyboard WAS the computer and you plugged it into a TV. They called them 'home computers' back then. I still have an old Sinclair ZX81, Radio Shack TRS-80 and a Texas Instruments TI-99 4/A in one of my closets. I have no idea if any of them still work.
Love the fact this thing has a VGA plug. It makes turning this into a retro games machine and plugging it into a CRT PC monitor for that vintage look really easy 😁
And a headphone jack - love the RPi400 but it is something my use case ends up seeming to need (carrying it around as an "emergency computer" to connect to displays that are available, many I find don't supply audio). Matter of fact, one of my two 400s is just connected to a VGA/audio adapter to make use of my home monitor's dual inputs, on that note 🤔
I've got an old SONY flat screen with VGA. Do these have a delay as well? Or does it only delay on digital in/out like HDMI? I see no reason why a flat should be slower than a CRT.
Every time it appears on the screen, I keep thinking your camera's color balance is way off, but that's just because I'm used to the red of the Pi 400! I wish the Pi 400 had a built-in speaker. Would've been a very nice little quality of life improvement.
Causing market confusion is Orange Pi's bread and butter. But what's really funny is that the "800" has 6 cores and 4 GB of RAM, is not the 8th generation of anything, etc.
Really nice that they included a VGA port. This type of device is ideal for pairing up with an old monitor.There's so many old monitors with only VGA and DVI input that could find a second life in emulation and other applications. Given how difficult and expensive it is to get any new Raspberry Pi device, it's good to see these alternatives.
Yes care Bear..me too..I first saw this 800 August time..full size HDMI and VGA..my thoughts were even if the RPi version was actually available..which it isn't..sold out all over Europe..along with every other RPi SBC..this was a better choice anyway..at least for myself..most will probably prefer the Raspberry though..I just happen to dislike mini HDMI with a vengeance..and us old school can't escape VGA ports..everything I have uses them..even better with Android soon..well done Steven Zhao..he's the software engineer there
At that height, it would be amazing to have a Pi built-in inside a mechanical keyboard. Bonus points if said keyboard has hot-swappable switches (not sure about how feasible that would be)
Super doable, I'm surprised I haven't seen one yet. And with hot swap becoming standard on custom keyboards I'd be shocked if someone made one that wasn't
I don’t know much about keyboard tech except that mechanical keyboards are desirable and different people like different switches due to feel, response time, etc. What is the additional benefit of hot swappable switches?
This thing looks sick! The fact that it has VGA out means you could use a VGA to Component converter to get a direct video signal out to a CRT TV, of course you'd need it to be set up at 240p resolution. If this thing can run it's own type of RetroPie or Batocera and can be switched to 240p then I want one.
it's not much faster than an over locked pi4. That power brick is doing most of the work. Thank Alder Lake for bringing good Big.little scheduling to Linux. Hopefully Pi5 will be power efficient.
@@ch4.hayabusa Ah that's a shame. I wouldn't consider myself a RPi fanboy or anything, but I'm so happy with their products, that I'd much rather wait for a Pi5 to see what they got up their sleeve. Besides, my Pi3 and Pi4 are still working well...so in no real rush to use a Pi800 lol
dude this looks sick. I'm not a huge raspberry pi fan when it comes to personal computing use, it's just not fast enough, however the rk3399 does have noticeable improvements
Nice review! I look at the Pi-400 (and now the OrangePi-800) as a modern Commodore 64. But at $100 - it's an order of magnitude cheaper. Even Moore's law doesn't account for this reduction in cost. Amazing.
Moore's law did account for this cost-reduction, and you can actually map the relative price-to-performance of various Pi generations to find that the value is *decreasing* overall. The original $35 Raspberry Pi was the best bang-for-your-buck computer ever made, IMO.
@@dial2616 I'd like to see your numbers on Moore's law for this… But as far as I can tell the raspberry pi 400 and or the orange 800 should cost $599 like the Commodore 64 did. the fact that it's 1/6 the cost is what I'm pointing to is having done better than Moore's law
Problem with these things is always the same: lack of opensource graphic APIs implementation, which the Pi provides. Why is that important you ask? Because not having opensource graphics ties you to an old kernel, and prevents you from using the full potential of the GPU.
Which is why browsers struggle with video decoding. But they will catch up with time like the Pi did because it didn't have accelerated graphics at first either. I'd bet if he used a custom build of ffmpeg for that chip it would play video at full speed. I had to download YT videos on my Pi at first to get proper acceleration.
@@anon_y_mousse yeah, after a year or 2 the current video codec is sometimes too hard to use for these PC. I had an Apple IPad that could no longer stream video. Also a wii u. Must get something with x Continual updates and common chipsets.
Well, I don't want a fairly obsolete gpu... as rpi models have limitations that GPUs from more than 15 years ago in many parts. The rpi4 GPU will never be able fully support OpenGL 3.0 because it does not support/lack hw 8 draw buffers some very old PC engines required it, no native support MSAA , And not going GLSL 4.00 for several DX11/OpenGL 4.x engines with limited Opengl 3.x GLSL1.30/GLSL1.40/GLSL3.3 For example Xbox classic emulation requires OpenGL 4.0 with Xemu . The GPU rpi's it's very obsolete early DX9/OpenGL 2.1 era and partially DX10/OpenGL 3.x support from ~15-20years ago . It does not have early Vulkan 1.1 api 100% implemented because it lacks hw VK_KHR_sampler_ycbcr_conversion and VK_KHR_shader_draw_parameters It is very sad that today to run OpenGL 4.x only Tegra TK1 ad higher and Apple m1/m2 can do it The rest of the manufacturers under arm are too limited driver or lack hw to offer that. The closest to offering that is Qualcomm + adreno 650 which already offers Vulkan 1.3 and several stuff for OpenGL 4.x has many things implemented and hardware prepared in the structure to implement it in its driver. We needed a gaming manufacturer for arm/risc-v that meets the requirements to implement the graphics apis of the last 15-20 years 100% with no stuck Propietary drivers NVIDIA or Apple m1 metal (on mac wrapper limited voltenVK if not exists metal backend) Only boards that have PCI-express and can inject a PC GPU with free drivers for amd GPUs or nvidia drivers already released for pci-express boards arm64 used in some servers.
@@bulletpunch9317 mostly better if compared with Mali/broadcom gpu's but missing driver implemented supporting the API . The problem is that many arm manufacturers are oriented only in android and robotic of use and throw away after years. Little effort to offer support for Linux where OpenGL support is more common compared with OpenGL ES API. Sometimes you can poorly X11/wayland stuff perfomance due poor perfomance or partially stuff implemented under linux with no official supported. The state of drivers is quite concerned very fragmented and they are rarely updated maybe you can go a little further with some custom rom for android principal development by containing a newer driver but you never get to see a notorious stagnant progress to partial Vulkan 1.1 with old development branches with no finished driver. I have seen dual source support disabled in some drivers developed by samsung or some stuff optional never implemented . The only manufacturer is the one I have mentioned Qualcomm Adreno 650 with recent mesa3d drivers open souce you can have a lot of work from what I say. I haven't seen a driver on Samsung exynos 2200 phones that fully supports Vulkan 1.2 or Vulkan 1.3 required for current DXVK (it's a DirectX to Vulkan wrapper).
This type of SBC (keyboard type) would be great for schools... Get each student one, and they just have to get monitors for them to use in the classrooms. You could teach robotics or even just programming with them, or use them for word processing, etc.
I think there's a kind of confusion here about Armbian. It's not like a separate OS. It's just a team (a great team, btw) who're working to make few other OSes like Debian and Ubuntu to work a bit better on a wide variety of different arm cpus, by tweaking various things like set of kernel modules and their settings. And they also redistribute those resulted images of those OS + scripts to create your own images, if needed. But that is it. It's not a separate OS
Its a lot more then just a separate OS. That's the point. Most Linux distributions on the market just take a base, make a new wallpaper / theme ... and its a new distribution.
RK3399 is quite powerful. Well sufficient for every day office and browsing tasks. I like the connection options of that device. Especially having HDMI and VGA gives you the option to plug in 2 monitors if you have an old VGA display lying around somewhere or use an adapter.
@@monochrome_linux I'd consider it more of a modern-off-the-shelf remake of the C64, cranked up to 11. Still a 6502 at heart, but it's capabilities are pushed to the limits. So it's more of a development of the C64, rather than a successor. Though I've just seen the video was released yesterday, so i'm gonna take a look Pi400 and Pi800 on the other hand are true modern systems, that can be used for everyday tasks. I am curious to see what the X16 can do.
When it comes to emulation performance on SBCs and units like this you might want to try grabbing the retropie install script, setting the OS to boot to the terminal by default (you can always type startx to manually start the GUI) and then run the retropie script and have it compile things from source so they are tweaked for that board and you don't have the overhead of the desktop environment in the background.
One of the things I really care about is vanilla kernel support. I don't know with a lot of these boards if I will be stuck on an old kernel version forever.
The title should read "A brand New etc". 'An' is only used before a noun that starts with a vowel or vowel sound. Like an apple, or an elephant, or an igloo.
cool little gadget. on a personal note i would like to see a revision either with this or with the PI where it is usable as just a plain keyboard, flip a switch on the back and you can boot the system built in to the keyboard. flip it back and its just another keyboard
I hope the Orange Pi ecosystem continues to grow. They've been around awhile and have a lot of unique boards at acceptable prices, and they're still available. The smaller community makes it a bit more challenging to find solutions/answers for them, but they're still fun to tinker with. I've been using a few Orange Pi Zero boards to run Octoprint for a couple of years now without any major hiccups (other than the initial setup). I'd love to use Raspberry Pis for everything, but the shortages (and scalping) has had a major impact on their availability.
Awesome: I hope they release something like the "Pro" version of this: 8GB LPDD4 Ram, Wireless mouse, Stereo Speaker and an internal slot for an SSD. Maybe with a prince range within $150-$199. This could make it as a more decent traveling cyberdeck.
Years ago, 2018 I think, I pre-ordered a Rock960 (RK3399), waited forever for it to come, and installed it into a tenkeyless mechanical keyboard along with a USB hub. It's been gathering dust for a long time since then, since the promised Ubuntu driver support for GPU didn't come.
Rk3399 has gpu drivers since years ago. Not vpu tho.. well, not properly supported on third party software. The same goes to rpi4 for most parts, specially the browsers.
I can't shake the bad reputation I remember getting from Orange Pi's really bad customer support from a few years ago. This product looks interesting but if they can't provide long-term support and enhance the product down the road then I'm not sure why I would spend time on a system that will fade away. (change my mind OP)
There's no reason to change your mind. Once you realize that Raspberry Pi is junk too (Broadcom GPU and software issues), you'll come full circle back to x86.
My experiences have to do with unsupported features like full GPU support after the product has been on the market for over a year. I'm primarily a Linux developer and their lack of a good plan to support the platform leaves me underwhelmed.
Im waiting for RISCV Hardware. Dont get me wrong i like Arm, it is really power effecient and its becoming really powerful but the code is still proprietery so hopefully we get powerful RISCV hardware soon in the future
This new kind of computer should came with ram and SD in their slot versions. There is space and plenty of options (specially for ddr3L sodimm and m2 SATA/nvme)
I really hope orange pi gets more support like the raspberry pi. I will say keep in mind that most of the orange pi's that are LTS, not the os lts but the name of the biard is something like orange pi 3/4 LTS, currently do not have wifi support on the current kernel. Its seems that it has to do something with the new wifi chip they are using. Apparently they only work with the OS that they provide from there website and do not work with ones directly from othe places like Armbian, mint, or manjaro. So I would be interested to see if they are using the older wifi module on this one or atleast one that is more supported than the new one they are using on most boards. Last thing I will say that if you want to use one as a desktop computer than definetly use one with at least 4gb of ram. I have the orange pi 3 LTS with only 2gb ram and in a desktop environment its pretty slow but just cli work great.
With this custom keyboard & custom pc board as well as just plugging in and the OS boots with the unit being instantly useful, weve come full circle with this... these machines are modern day Commodore64s & 128s
would love to see manjaro running on this (though not my favorite archlinux derivative) Also would love to see how this performs with a well done overclock
There's no reason at all to call it "800" instead of a "600". It has 6 cores and 4 GB of RAM. I guess the RK3399 will have been on the market for 8 years before too long.
This looks very promising, I just hope they can get the software end of things ironed out OR we can get a version of Twister or the like...Ive seen a few Orange pi reviews (just the board) and the orange pi os has some issues. PLEASE keep us informed if you hear anything!
Awesome video and I am glad to see more SBC Arm configurations. All In One usually means keyboard, computer and display and this gripe is leading me to this question. Why buy this when we have a higher spec Chromebooks on the second hand market going for a lot less? I consider this channel a tinkering/emulation one, so maybe you should tap into modding a cheap laptop/Chromebook vs this Arm offering, providing Linux and a screen as an AIO alternative. Pushing the ARM narrative.
Dunno why snapdragon doesn't make a 8gen1 without the phone options like simcard 5g camera etc just the gpu cpu and Bluetooth wifi to make an android box with active cooling for overclocking Could literally drop the price of a 8gen1 to be used in handhelds and media streaming devices.
As much as I love the Raspberry Pi foundation and their products I'm really frustrated that they've chosen their corporate customers over hobbyists. They've abandoned all of the little manufacturers who make their own cases, their own accessories, etc that have historically added to the Pi ecosystem but are struggling now because the hobbyists that are their primary customers are no longer able to purchase a Pi at all and can't use all of the incredible innovations that are available. I'd love to see more availability for the Pi products but maybe a competitor like Orange Pi can establish enough support in the community that we'll get installation images for it as well. The hackability of the Pi is incredible but the accessibility that they have for non-technical people to just download and install an image onto a micro-sd card is incredibly important as well.
I would like to see a new keyboard with a built-in battery. I could see myself using this battery-powered Pi800-like computer without a display and I could navigate the computer using just a screen reader. That is, once I connect a display and get the screen reader to automatically start during the login and after logging into the desktop. I would like to be able to make use of a keyboard-only device while traveling. Not that I am blind (actually, I am blind in my left eye), but being able to connect to the WiFi network and access the Internet using just a screen reader with no display connected would be very cool to have.
really curious about assistive technology on some of these alternative platforms. Windows (with Narrator) finally has a decent built-in screen reader. Apple's VoiceOver is quirky, but not too terrible. ChromeVox kinda sucks.
I want a setup with all the hated ports. There are machines that put people stuck with unwanted locked in transfer methods, so there could be a benefit of specializing.
My problem with these more obscure SBCs is the GPU support or rather the lack thereof. Even the massive community behind the RasPi 400 is struggling with a proper 64bit OS with a proper GPU driver. This is not the fault of the companies making these, it's that there are not many places to get an SoC and those places have closed source blobs for the GPUs, that's why they work in Android, but not in linux. This just goes to show how important FOSS really is.
Firefox up until recently did not have GPU video decoding enabled by default. It is now but it is pretty recent. Make sure Firefox is pretty new, like a build from within the last few months. It might also just not work on ARM GPUs by default. I think the video decode path is libva so the GPU has to be supported by that.
I'm enamored, but just like the pi400, there's only 4gb of ram which is way too little for decent desktop use. I would love to see an 8gb variant and it would be great!
Like WTF why not 8 GB or even upto 64 GB Ram? But it is good that it is faster than the pi400; and that someone else is producing pi400 clones. Cause I think you can't even buy the pi400 out of stock. Maybe they'll make a variant version of the pi800 with atleast 8 GB ram. Glad someone else thinks like me; 1st thing I wanted to see was how much ram. Too bad there wasn't an option like a ARM GPU BUS and you could hook up a external GPU.
Anyone knows, what the support in Linux is for this device? Cause i sometimes read people complaining, that a given CPU/GPU is not support by the mainline-kernel and that is a bad thing.. But i have no idea, how i can know, if i will get newer kernels/distributions for a device or i'm stuck with ubuntu 20.04 for example. Can anyone help me?
I imagine if in the future we can put more ram on arm PC's with little ram memories in the size of micro SD cards. I don't know how to express the idea I have on my mind, but is like you open your keyboard, put these imaginary ram - microSD sized to have more juice
Like many 'Pi alternatives' it mostly outperforms the Pi in initial price (but since there is a Pi shortage this may come in handy for some people) Btw that price isn't 99 dollar in Europe but 127.50 euro (in the link, but others on Ali express about the same) and that's excluding the ridiculous shipment costs of 30+ euro.
@@mattmichael2441 Ah off course. The prices of previous models do ... so does a cheap pc. And then still 27.50 euro is more than 21% VAT. My advice at least wait until there is a local retailer selling this so you don't have to pay 35 euro shipping costs
![[8/3] Cyber Team Bootcamps 2024: CCDC - Linux Week](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/s2PXKysZ3s0/mqdefault.jpg)
I hope more companies keep making these new Microcomputers based on ARM and Single board computers.
I agree but would like it to be expandable and upgradable like normal PCs and laptop motherboards
@@rb3020 That would be almost impossible as the savings primarily comes from the fact that it's a single PCB with soldered chips on it. Upgrading it would push the cost up towards that of a regular budget PC.
@@joey199412 your pseudo fits you well... If you can upgrade it, who cares about spending a bit more ? A movable socket doesn't cost a lot, it's just an excuse to sell whole new sbc at each release.
x86 is better. Intel should flood the market with Jasper Lake and Alder Lake-N. ODROID-H3 is coming in at $129.
I want see Rockship 3588 pc.
It truly is amazing how the old becomes new again! My first computer was a "keyboard PC". If anyone is interested look up the Vic20 from the early 80's
Hmm I don’t think I’ve ever heard of the VIC-20? Was that something like the C64 I also think I’ve heard of once maybe? 🧐😂
@@Sashazur Yeah, it was kind of like a C64. I'm not sure which one was older though. It used the old Polk programming language. I programmed my first video game on it!
I had a ti-994a as my first computer.
Mine too 😃
That's why I'm interested in getting one of these. Reminds me of my childhood where the keyboard WAS the computer and you plugged it into a TV. They called them 'home computers' back then. I still have an old Sinclair ZX81, Radio Shack TRS-80 and a Texas Instruments TI-99 4/A in one of my closets. I have no idea if any of them still work.
Love the fact this thing has a VGA plug. It makes turning this into a retro games machine and plugging it into a CRT PC monitor for that vintage look really easy 😁
And a headphone jack - love the RPi400 but it is something my use case ends up seeming to need (carrying it around as an "emergency computer" to connect to displays that are available, many I find don't supply audio). Matter of fact, one of my two 400s is just connected to a VGA/audio adapter to make use of my home monitor's dual inputs, on that note 🤔
Android on crt, not vintage... But very interesting.
Give it to a 9 year old child with a basic VGA monitor.
@@ricky4673 He said GAMES Breh.
I've got an old SONY flat screen with VGA. Do these have a delay as well? Or does it only delay on digital in/out like HDMI? I see no reason why a flat should be slower than a CRT.
Every time it appears on the screen, I keep thinking your camera's color balance is way off, but that's just because I'm used to the red of the Pi 400!
I wish the Pi 400 had a built-in speaker. Would've been a very nice little quality of life improvement.
Yeah, or at least an audio jack.
If the Orange Pi had a 40 pin GPIO port it would be a real contender for me :(
me tooo Pi400. That Pi800 is much better GPU???
Hey I know you
@@TomNook. how?
Damn, for a second I was so happy thinking that Raspberry Pi 800 is released 😔
That confusion is 100% intended. I don't want to reward that behavior tbh.
@@HelgiWaag Yeah, there is no way now that I will buy anything from Orange Pi
Causing market confusion is Orange Pi's bread and butter. But what's really funny is that the "800" has 6 cores and 4 GB of RAM, is not the 8th generation of anything, etc.
@@youtwobe3507 its just because 800 is 2×400, maybe orange pi is telling that their version is double the performance than raspberry pi !? Idk
Yeah, unsubbed from ETA, loved his content, but this whole "Gotcha!" tactic with intentionally misleading titles is infuriating and terrible behavior.
Really nice that they included a VGA port. This type of device is ideal for pairing up with an old monitor.There's so many old monitors with only VGA and DVI input that could find a second life in emulation and other applications. Given how difficult and expensive it is to get any new Raspberry Pi device, it's good to see these alternatives.
Yes care Bear..me too..I first saw this 800 August time..full size HDMI and VGA..my thoughts were even if the RPi version was actually available..which it isn't..sold out all over Europe..along with every other RPi SBC..this was a better choice anyway..at least for myself..most will probably prefer the Raspberry though..I just happen to dislike mini HDMI with a vengeance..and us old school can't escape VGA ports..everything I have uses them..even better with Android soon..well done Steven Zhao..he's the software engineer there
Maybe an emulation speed comparison between the Pi400 and the "Pi" 800?
At that height, it would be amazing to have a Pi built-in inside a mechanical keyboard. Bonus points if said keyboard has hot-swappable switches (not sure about how feasible that would be)
Super doable, I'm surprised I haven't seen one yet. And with hot swap becoming standard on custom keyboards I'd be shocked if someone made one that wasn't
I don’t know much about keyboard tech except that mechanical keyboards are desirable and different people like different switches due to feel, response time, etc. What is the additional benefit of hot swappable switches?
@@Sashazur it males it easy to change the switches, otherwise you'd have to desolder them and that's a pain
I love these things. They're like a throwback to the old 8/16 bit micros of the past.
Yeah, I immediately thought Commodore 64.
This thing looks sick! The fact that it has VGA out means you could use a VGA to Component converter to get a direct video signal out to a CRT TV, of course you'd need it to be set up at 240p resolution. If this thing can run it's own type of RetroPie or Batocera and can be switched to 240p then I want one.
Now calling it a 'pi800' is just confusing - it made me think it was the upgrade to the Raspberry Pi400
it's not much faster than an over locked pi4. That power brick is doing most of the work.
Thank Alder Lake for bringing good Big.little scheduling to Linux. Hopefully Pi5 will be power efficient.
@@ch4.hayabusa Ah that's a shame. I wouldn't consider myself a RPi fanboy or anything, but I'm so happy with their products, that I'd much rather wait for a Pi5 to see what they got up their sleeve. Besides, my Pi3 and Pi4 are still working well...so in no real rush to use a Pi800 lol
16GB memory and ability to stream video well under Linux is when these would become interesting as desktop computers
Just in time! I was searching for a video from you about this, couldn’t find it and here it is
NB: that is not a 40 pin GPIO header, it's a 26 pin.
dude this looks sick. I'm not a huge raspberry pi fan when it comes to personal computing use, it's just not fast enough, however the rk3399 does have noticeable improvements
We want a performance video on this, test emulation as far as GameCube and ps2, and some benchmarks if possible
Nice review! I look at the Pi-400 (and now the OrangePi-800) as a modern Commodore 64. But at $100 - it's an order of magnitude cheaper. Even Moore's law doesn't account for this reduction in cost. Amazing.
Moore's law did account for this cost-reduction, and you can actually map the relative price-to-performance of various Pi generations to find that the value is *decreasing* overall. The original $35 Raspberry Pi was the best bang-for-your-buck computer ever made, IMO.
@@dial2616 I'd like to see your numbers on Moore's law for this… But as far as I can tell the raspberry pi 400 and or the orange 800 should cost $599 like the Commodore 64 did. the fact that it's 1/6 the cost is what I'm pointing to is having done better than Moore's law
Problem with these things is always the same: lack of opensource graphic APIs implementation, which the Pi provides.
Why is that important you ask? Because not having opensource graphics ties you to an old kernel, and prevents you from using the full potential of the GPU.
Which is why browsers struggle with video decoding. But they will catch up with time like the Pi did because it didn't have accelerated graphics at first either. I'd bet if he used a custom build of ffmpeg for that chip it would play video at full speed. I had to download YT videos on my Pi at first to get proper acceleration.
wtf!!!!!!!! this use mainline and PANFROST!!!!
@@anon_y_mousse yeah, after a year or 2 the current video codec is sometimes too hard to use for these PC. I had an Apple IPad that could no longer stream video. Also a wii u.
Must get something with x
Continual updates and common chipsets.
Well, I don't want a fairly obsolete gpu... as rpi models have limitations that GPUs from more than 15 years ago in many parts.
The rpi4 GPU will never be able fully support OpenGL 3.0 because it does not support/lack hw 8 draw buffers some very old PC engines required it, no native support MSAA ,
And not going GLSL 4.00 for several DX11/OpenGL 4.x engines with limited Opengl 3.x GLSL1.30/GLSL1.40/GLSL3.3
For example Xbox classic emulation requires OpenGL 4.0 with Xemu .
The GPU rpi's it's very obsolete early DX9/OpenGL 2.1 era and partially DX10/OpenGL 3.x support from ~15-20years ago .
It does not have early Vulkan 1.1 api 100% implemented because it lacks hw VK_KHR_sampler_ycbcr_conversion and VK_KHR_shader_draw_parameters
It is very sad that today to run OpenGL 4.x only Tegra TK1 ad higher and Apple m1/m2 can do it
The rest of the manufacturers under arm are too limited driver or lack hw to offer that.
The closest to offering that is Qualcomm + adreno 650 which already offers Vulkan 1.3 and several stuff for OpenGL 4.x has many things implemented and hardware prepared in the structure to implement it in its driver.
We needed a gaming manufacturer for arm/risc-v that meets the requirements to implement the graphics apis of the last 15-20 years 100% with no stuck Propietary drivers NVIDIA or Apple m1 metal (on mac wrapper limited voltenVK if not exists metal backend)
Only boards that have PCI-express and can inject a PC GPU with free drivers for amd GPUs or nvidia drivers already released for pci-express boards arm64 used in some servers.
@@bulletpunch9317 mostly better if compared with Mali/broadcom gpu's but missing driver implemented supporting the API .
The problem is that many arm manufacturers are oriented only in android and robotic of use and throw away after years.
Little effort to offer support for Linux where OpenGL support is more common compared with OpenGL ES API.
Sometimes you can poorly X11/wayland stuff perfomance due poor perfomance or partially stuff implemented under linux with no official supported.
The state of drivers is quite concerned very fragmented and they are rarely updated maybe you can go a little further with some custom rom for android principal development by containing a newer driver but you never get to see a notorious stagnant progress to partial Vulkan 1.1 with old development branches with no finished driver.
I have seen dual source support disabled in some drivers developed by samsung or some stuff optional never implemented .
The only manufacturer is the one I have mentioned Qualcomm Adreno 650 with recent mesa3d drivers open souce you can have a lot of work from what I say.
I haven't seen a driver on Samsung exynos 2200 phones that fully supports Vulkan 1.2 or Vulkan 1.3 required for current DXVK (it's a DirectX to Vulkan wrapper).
“Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.”
Orange Pi: *INTENSELY SINCERE*
Glad to see it has a full sized HDMI port, because the Pi 400 has mini HDMI and it's hard to find cables and they are very fragile.
This type of SBC (keyboard type) would be great for schools... Get each student one, and they just have to get monitors for them to use in the classrooms. You could teach robotics or even just programming with them, or use them for word processing, etc.
I think there's a kind of confusion here about Armbian. It's not like a separate OS. It's just a team (a great team, btw) who're working to make few other OSes like Debian and Ubuntu to work a bit better on a wide variety of different arm cpus, by tweaking various things like set of kernel modules and their settings. And they also redistribute those resulted images of those OS + scripts to create your own images, if needed. But that is it. It's not a separate OS
That's... Like every other Linux distro.
Its a lot more then just a separate OS. That's the point. Most Linux distributions on the market just take a base, make a new wallpaper / theme ... and its a new distribution.
RK3399 is quite powerful. Well sufficient for every day office and browsing tasks.
I like the connection options of that device. Especially having HDMI and VGA gives you the option to plug in 2 monitors if you have an old VGA display lying around somewhere or use an adapter.
Got to try out a Pi400 last year. Though it was great. Nice to see there is some competition out there.
Pi400 and Pi800 are the comps we wanted to replace the C64.
This is absolutely the way that C64 mini should have gone.
Well.. technically, the proper sucessor for a commodore 64 should be the commander X16 from the UA-camr 8 bit guy amd his team.
@@monochrome_linux I'd consider it more of a modern-off-the-shelf remake of the C64, cranked up to 11.
Still a 6502 at heart, but it's capabilities are pushed to the limits.
So it's more of a development of the C64, rather than a successor.
Though I've just seen the video was released yesterday, so i'm gonna take a look
Pi400 and Pi800 on the other hand are true modern systems, that can be used for everyday tasks.
I am curious to see what the X16 can do.
Audio out, full sized hdmi and vga... I'm sold!
Wish they went ahead and made it a full size keyboard/ The pi400, while cool, sucks to type on for long periods of time.
4GB Ram only, that's the deal breaker. 8GB is absolute minimum before I'll even consider it.
When it comes to emulation performance on SBCs and units like this you might want to try grabbing the retropie install script, setting the OS to boot to the terminal by default (you can always type startx to manually start the GUI) and then run the retropie script and have it compile things from source so they are tweaked for that board and you don't have the overhead of the desktop environment in the background.
Looks like a great compact PC for basic computing tasks on the cheap. It would be nice to see a Kubuntu ARM with the KDE Plasma desktop for it.
That's running XFCE. If you get bored, install the Chicago95 theme and make it look like Windows 95, it even has old Plus themes😆
This is quite exciting, looking forward to an Android / Linux hybrid OS like Volks PC for the best of both worlds.
One of the things I really care about is vanilla kernel support. I don't know with a lot of these boards if I will be stuck on an old kernel version forever.
Runs mainline.
@@microlinux Excellent then. I might have a look at getting one of these then.
@@dave7244 yeah,my only concern is the 5v input thingy. It would be much better 12v jack or PD
Orange: "Hey, lemmie copy your homework!"
"OK, just change it up a bit so it doesn't look suspicious..."
These would be great as a remote access system too. Access up your main PC from just a keyboard plugged into a screen
The title should read "A brand New etc". 'An' is only used before a noun that starts with a vowel or vowel sound. Like an apple, or an elephant, or an igloo.
the keyboard pc reminds me of commodore 64, which is also just a keyboard and a pc
these things are great for all that old PC emulation. Amiga, Commodore, Apple 2, etc. Love these things.
cool little gadget. on a personal note i would like to see a revision either with this or with the PI where it is usable as just a plain keyboard, flip a switch on the back and you can boot the system built in to the keyboard. flip it back and its just another keyboard
For a moment I thought this the Pi 400 with memory chip replaced with 8GB chip, but no!
This looks like my next toy project.
I do love the "breadbin" style computer formfactor.
I hope the Orange Pi ecosystem continues to grow. They've been around awhile and have a lot of unique boards at acceptable prices, and they're still available. The smaller community makes it a bit more challenging to find solutions/answers for them, but they're still fun to tinker with. I've been using a few Orange Pi Zero boards to run Octoprint for a couple of years now without any major hiccups (other than the initial setup). I'd love to use Raspberry Pis for everything, but the shortages (and scalping) has had a major impact on their availability.
Thank god I got my rpi 4gig 128 PC before all of this shortage happened.
Orangepi ecosystem is quite big. Just check armbian forums.
I would love to see Manjaro ARM running on this machine 👍
Awesome: I hope they release something like the "Pro" version of this: 8GB LPDD4 Ram, Wireless mouse, Stereo Speaker and an internal slot for an SSD. Maybe with a prince range within $150-$199. This could make it as a more decent traveling cyberdeck.
This is such a throwback to 8 bit and 16 bit home computers and I think they're brilliant.
Really looking forward to the Android review
Years ago, 2018 I think, I pre-ordered a Rock960 (RK3399), waited forever for it to come, and installed it into a tenkeyless mechanical keyboard along with a USB hub. It's been gathering dust for a long time since then, since the promised Ubuntu driver support for GPU didn't come.
Rk3399 has gpu drivers since years ago. Not vpu tho.. well, not properly supported on third party software. The same goes to rpi4 for most parts, specially the browsers.
I can't shake the bad reputation I remember getting from Orange Pi's really bad customer support from a few years ago. This product looks interesting but if they can't provide long-term support and enhance the product down the road then I'm not sure why I would spend time on a system that will fade away. (change my mind OP)
Buying to watch it fade…😂
The RK3399 is well supported by multiple distros. I'm expecting that Manjaro and Armbian will support the Orange Pi 800.
There's no reason to change your mind. Once you realize that Raspberry Pi is junk too (Broadcom GPU and software issues), you'll come full circle back to x86.
My experiences have to do with unsupported features like full GPU support after the product has been on the market for over a year. I'm primarily a Linux developer and their lack of a good plan to support the platform leaves me underwhelmed.
@@johncnorris In that case it's probably better to keep an eye on Panfrost and Hantro.
Im waiting for RISCV Hardware. Dont get me wrong i like Arm, it is really power effecient and its becoming really powerful but the code is still proprietery so hopefully we get powerful RISCV hardware soon in the future
RISC-V will have the same ecosystem fragmentation and proprietary GPU problems that you see with ARM. x86 is the true savior.
After computers miniaturized enough to go handheld they are now going back to their microcomputer roots, I like it.
2:23 it doesn't have a 40 pin gpio. I think it is 26 pin.
I am liking the VGA but I have the Raspberry Pi 4B 8GB in the Vilros keyboard/touchpad hub though and don't really need it
Dang it! You had me excited for a Raspberry Pi 5 based all-in-one computer like a next gen version of the Pi400.
I wish that Raspberry Pi company would create more stock, because they only offer the RPi 4 for over $100 I remember when they were reasonable priced.
They would if they could. But if they can’t get the chips they need what are they supposed to do?
I hope some company makes something like this in a tenkeyless with function keys in a normal 4 key set format.
And a touchpad🇿🇦
I love this form factor. I really love this form factor. Some USB game controllers and all my 80s/90s computing dreams come true.
This new kind of computer should came with ram and SD in their slot versions. There is space and plenty of options (specially for ddr3L sodimm and m2 SATA/nvme)
There is no hope for that. Not even the RK3588 supports SO-DIMM/DIMM RAM, just 32 GB of soldered.
I really hope orange pi gets more support like the raspberry pi. I will say keep in mind that most of the orange pi's that are LTS, not the os lts but the name of the biard is something like orange pi 3/4 LTS, currently do not have wifi support on the current kernel. Its seems that it has to do something with the new wifi chip they are using. Apparently they only work with the OS that they provide from there website and do not work with ones directly from othe places like Armbian, mint, or manjaro.
So I would be interested to see if they are using the older wifi module on this one or atleast one that is more supported than the new one they are using on most boards.
Last thing I will say that if you want to use one as a desktop computer than definetly use one with at least 4gb of ram. I have the orange pi 3 LTS with only 2gb ram and in a desktop environment its pretty slow but just cli work great.
I want something like this with an 8 core CPU and 8GB RAM
With this custom keyboard & custom pc board as well as just plugging in and the OS boots with the unit being instantly useful, weve come full circle with this... these machines are modern day Commodore64s & 128s
8 Gb is the minimum for me to consider it. As a working-trave computer, it's really good, but to keep open my firefox tabs, 4 Gb is deal braker.
would love to see manjaro running on this (though not my favorite archlinux derivative) Also would love to see how this performs with a well done overclock
I agree about Manjaro and a overclock video would be nice
You want that it breaks more often ? :)
What we need is a case like this with space for installing an ssd of some kind.
I wish they would put one of these in a high quality mechanical keyboard.
Having one of these is like running a laptop without the screen. Or debloating if you're an Arch user.
I hope that the folks at RetrOrangePi (emulation front end for OrangePi boards) can make a version for this model.
Any word on Android yet? Just got my OrangePi800 in the mail. Thank you. Keep up the good work. Glad you got the OP PC now.
I wanna see more of these, the perfect device for both hobbyists and to teach children how to code and develop
I just realized that manufacturers can make keyboard computers with just taking off the screen and touchpad
There's no reason at all to call it "800" instead of a "600". It has 6 cores and 4 GB of RAM. I guess the RK3399 will have been on the market for 8 years before too long.
i would have tempted to pick one up if it had a better keyboard
Can you compare some tests with the pi 400 side by side? Would be nice to know how much faster it is
This looks very promising, I just hope they can get the software end of things ironed out OR we can get a version of Twister or the like...Ive seen a few Orange pi reviews (just the board) and the orange pi os has some issues. PLEASE keep us informed if you hear anything!
Awesome video and I am glad to see more SBC Arm configurations. All In One usually means keyboard, computer and display and this gripe is leading me to this question.
Why buy this when we have a higher spec Chromebooks on the second hand market going for a lot less?
I consider this channel a tinkering/emulation one, so maybe you should tap into modding a cheap laptop/Chromebook vs this Arm offering, providing Linux and a screen as an AIO alternative. Pushing the ARM narrative.
Chromebooks aren't free (software-wise). It's a lot harder, and sometimes impossible, to boot Linux from a Chromebook's UEFI
@@StevenAlexander44 Usually it is just a small screw. There are hundreds of Chromebooks out there and ETA Prime is an expert on the subject.
I've heard this style of computer referred to as a "keyboard wedge" think C64, Apple II, etc.
Dunno why snapdragon doesn't make a 8gen1 without the phone options like simcard 5g camera etc just the gpu cpu and Bluetooth wifi to make an android box with active cooling for overclocking
Could literally drop the price of a 8gen1 to be used in handhelds and media streaming devices.
As much as I love the Raspberry Pi foundation and their products I'm really frustrated that they've chosen their corporate customers over hobbyists. They've abandoned all of the little manufacturers who make their own cases, their own accessories, etc that have historically added to the Pi ecosystem but are struggling now because the hobbyists that are their primary customers are no longer able to purchase a Pi at all and can't use all of the incredible innovations that are available. I'd love to see more availability for the Pi products but maybe a competitor like Orange Pi can establish enough support in the community that we'll get installation images for it as well. The hackability of the Pi is incredible but the accessibility that they have for non-technical people to just download and install an image onto a micro-sd card is incredibly important as well.
If this had a 8gb ram option I would buy one immediately.
I would like to see a new keyboard with a built-in battery. I could see myself using this battery-powered Pi800-like computer without a display and I could navigate the computer using just a screen reader. That is, once I connect a display and get the screen reader to automatically start during the login and after logging into the desktop. I would like to be able to make use of a keyboard-only device while traveling. Not that I am blind (actually, I am blind in my left eye), but being able to connect to the WiFi network and access the Internet using just a screen reader with no display connected would be very cool to have.
really curious about assistive technology on some of these alternative platforms. Windows (with Narrator) finally has a decent built-in screen reader. Apple's VoiceOver is quirky, but not too terrible. ChromeVox kinda sucks.
you need to enable hardware decoding in firefox (and hope it works) to play videos better. I android, youtube app utilises it by default
I want a setup with all the hated ports. There are machines that put people stuck with unwanted locked in transfer methods, so there could be a benefit of specializing.
My problem with these more obscure SBCs is the GPU support or rather the lack thereof. Even the massive community behind the RasPi 400 is struggling with a proper 64bit OS with a proper GPU driver. This is not the fault of the companies making these, it's that there are not many places to get an SoC and those places have closed source blobs for the GPUs, that's why they work in Android, but not in linux. This just goes to show how important FOSS really is.
64bit OS works fine on the Pi400 with full GPU acceleration, the GU stuff is also all FOSS now.
Rk3399 has open source gpu graphics since middle ages. It's very robust
I love this form factor. Would like to see an 8gb version though. Have you found any others?
Ditto. That form factor is great for a quick to setup computer.
Wait for the Orange Pi 888
RK3588 NEEDED
I would love to see these running Chrome os flex though!
Firefox up until recently did not have GPU video decoding enabled by default. It is now but it is pretty recent. Make sure Firefox is pretty new, like a build from within the last few months. It might also just not work on ARM GPUs by default. I think the video decode path is libva so the GPU has to be supported by that.
Would be nice to have laptop hardware in that tiny keyboard. Love the idea.
It can't be that hard to add a screen to this and sell it as a laptop.
@@wayland7150 no screen, just keyboard. And endless possibilities to plug in to any monitor, tv.
@@mattusz1406 you were the one who said "would be nice to have a full laptop setup" what does that even mean if not a keyboard with screen??
I remember the 486 keyboard all in one computers from the 90's
really cool form factor, but why not include a trackpad, similar to a logitech k400, so its truly a complete system in the box
Excellent idea 💡
Ordered mine over five weeks ago… shipping on a slow boat from china I guess. I already use a 400, and four other pi4’s that I like a lot.
I'm enamored, but just like the pi400, there's only 4gb of ram which is way too little for decent desktop use. I would love to see an 8gb variant and it would be great!
Agreed, given the name, you'd think they'd at least throw in 8GB of RAM. A M.2 slot wouldn't hurt either...
Like WTF why not 8 GB or even upto 64 GB Ram? But it is good that it is faster than the pi400; and that someone else is producing pi400 clones. Cause I think you can't even buy the pi400 out of stock. Maybe they'll make a variant version of the pi800 with atleast 8 GB ram. Glad someone else thinks like me; 1st thing I wanted to see was how much ram. Too bad there wasn't an option like a ARM GPU BUS and you could hook up a external GPU.
I'd like to see how it runs Android perhaps with a touch screen too.
like...... even one a bit beefier would still fit my lifestyle. I like the idea of an all inclusive computer in a keyboard.
I really enjoy the pi 400, great for many projects. I have two table top arcades with pi 400 very easy.
Very excited to try the pi 800
The VGA plug is super cool and gives you the ability to plug it into a CRT monitor for the vintage game goodness 😁
@@rmcdudmk212 Hoping it's an analogue signal out though, rather than analogue to digital over analogue.
Very interesting review and will be some competition for future Raspberry Pi devices.
Anyone knows, what the support in Linux is for this device? Cause i sometimes read people complaining, that a given CPU/GPU is not support by the mainline-kernel and that is a bad thing.. But i have no idea, how i can know, if i will get newer kernels/distributions for a device or i'm stuck with ubuntu 20.04 for example.
Can anyone help me?
I imagine if in the future we can put more ram on arm PC's with little ram memories in the size of micro SD cards. I don't know how to express the idea I have on my mind, but is like you open your keyboard, put these imaginary ram - microSD sized to have more juice
Like many 'Pi alternatives' it mostly outperforms the Pi in initial price (but since there is a Pi shortage this may come in handy for some people) Btw that price isn't 99 dollar in Europe but 127.50 euro (in the link, but others on Ali express about the same) and that's excluding the ridiculous shipment costs of 30+ euro.
Btw US prices don't include taxes...
@@mattmichael2441 Ah off course. The prices of previous models do ... so does a cheap pc. And then still 27.50 euro is more than 21% VAT. My advice at least wait until there is a local retailer selling this so you don't have to pay 35 euro shipping costs
great review. good product
It's a modern version of "Commodore 64". I wish it had Window 11 OS in it. Also need more RAM and atleast 1 tera bytes of internal memory 😊☺️