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Are You Really Too Poor for Jiu-Jitsu? - Kama Vlog
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- Опубліковано 7 січ 2018
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Music by:
Ehrling - You and Me
/ ehrling
my instructor is a very high ranked and well respected master in our art, he has always taught out of cultural arts centers and and gymnasiums specifically to keep the cost low to the students. it was a deal u couldnt beat, some of the best quality instruction at a low price. but it is nice to have your own place and there are alot of expenses that go along with that which leads to higher prices. like Prof Ryan said its not always about making money but the love of the art and to spread it.
This shit ain't free! A cheap thing is no good, and a good thing ain't cheap! Lol
My Judo club is 50 quid for the whole year. Plus you can train Karate and JJJ
8:20 oh that's your dog, for a moment I thought it was mine 😂
When I lived near Coconut Creek, Florida in 2008 here's what I came across:
ATT charged $150/month. You had to reportedly buy all your equipment from them and it was all expensive. You'll be seeing UFC fighters training etc.
BTT was $180/month. Gi only. See UFC fighters.
The place I trained at was $50/month! We had a ton of students from both ATT& BTT who were sick of paying that much to train. Our school had more than both of those places combined and had to move 3 times from the growth and opened a 2nd location.
And made no profit.
why is profit important, one might ask?
let's run through some numbers...
$50x100 students = $5000
Typical monthly rent for a decent 2000sf facility in many suburban areas (including rent, insurance, electricity, water, etc) = $5000/mo
amount of food instructor can buy at end of month? Zip. he'll have to starve this month.
bring in another 100 students
$50x200 = $10,000/mo
minus rent = $5000/mo
Gross Profit = $5000/mo
minus other expenses need to run business -$1000/mo
minus taxes (federal, FICA, state, combined 35%) -$1400
minus contingency fund (for repairs to facilities) -$250/mo
Net Profit (owner's ultimate pay) =$3350/mo
$40,200/yr... hardly enough to make it worth many peoples' time and effort. i don't even have enough money to hire an assistant.
now, add in medical insurance, disability insurance, auto payments, home rental/mortgage, food for him and his family, clothing for the kids, etc, etc.
if i were living exclusively on the school and had to support my family with that... if that were my situation, i'd close up shop in a second and do something else that won't bust up my body as badly and pay me more money and just train in my garage at the time(s) of my choosing.
keep in mind, in order for that price point to work, the owner would have to have SEVERAL HUNDRED members to make it worthwhile. that means you'll likely never have much time with the owner of the school on the mat because he's too busy marketing (oh, that's a HUGE cost, as well) to keep the bodies flowing in the school to replace the disgruntled members who leave due to injury, or lack of attention, or only junior instructors teaching all the classes.
i dunno. just thinking a little here.
btw, if my situation were different and those were my choices, i'd pay $180/mo to learn under Master Liborio. just saying.
I definitely feel you with you gotta make a buck. It's crazy sounding but I work with 3 guys that own their own independent schools that have been around for years but they work this job part time to supplement their income.
They all charge $100 per month or if paid in full $1,000/year.
Personally I can't afford even $100. I train at an invite only school run by undercover police officers etc. It's free.
I've been training for geez since 1998 in some form of grappling or another. While there's definite benefit to a school I can still get in a strong workout like we do now.
I feel the "gotta make a buck" aspect but I don't pay $180 monthly for anything in my expenses and I think a lot of guys get swept up in they want to train but are priced out of being able to train. I'm one of them people and I've been training for a long time and absolutely love the grappling arts but I can't afford it in the end.
You train with Prof Craig Husband?
Breakneck Hell, I train in the Coral Springs area for FREE, with a group of Veterans and have access to black belts daily.
I haven’t started bjj training (yet), but have taken guitar lessons for years. I’ve had many instructors that was 20 or 25 a half hour, and others that was 50 for a half hour lesson. Many times the 50 for a half hour was cheaper because they would hit the ground running with an organized lesson. The cheaper ones would drag things out forever before you learn something.
I also do woodworking and can’t afford to buy cheap tools, but will spend a lot on quality.
Another great and informative video! Being in So California is a two edged sword as far as BJJ schools go. On the plus side you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a BJJ School. You are likely to have at least 5 or 6 good schools within an hour drive of where you are, so the choice is there. On the negative side, because of the cost of living these schools have to charge to simply "keep the lights on" and you are lucky to find a place that charges less than 150 a month.
That being said, there are people who really can't afford that extra 150 a month, But these are people who are working to just keep a roof over their head and their families provided for. Looking at the student population where my son trains they generally fall into two categories. Well Over half are middle to upper income males aged 35 to 50. The rest are generally teens living at home who have most of their other needs ( and dues) paid by their parents. My son is the only "twenty-something" in the school, and although he pays his own dues, his living arrangements with us is probably why he has the income to do that.
Looking at it, if someone is just starting out as an adult, BJJ is something that he average young adult has to plan for and choose priorities if they really want tpo do it.
My plan is to save up enough money, between now and the end of Summer, so that I can then fund a year's membership at a good school. Most likely, it will be at a place with unlimited access.
I did this too. I’m was 16 years old and my training school was 125 a month plus the gi and rash guards i tried to save for 6 months
Just started at my courses at an mma gym in Colorado and it's 80 a month for 3 times a week and 100 a month for unlimited. It doesn't require you to buy your equipment from then but I chose to buy from them to help support the school. But they do classes in mma and boxing/ kickboxing and even Muay Thai and kali as well. The place is huge but also has alot of sponsors and banners for companies all over the place. It's owned by a big vape company located in the same city so idk if they actually have to make a profit to stay open
School tuition varies based on location and association. I paid $79 a month at my former school. However, I know other organizations where tuition is well over $100 a month. It's a matter of prestige and if you train under an association with strong competitors then you will pay more money. That's understandable based on the caliber of training as well as the location.
Brazilian jiu-jitsu schools are businesses and the purpose of such is to make money. However, I hope one day there will be schools that are fairly inexpensive so more people will have access to learn this art.
cabalofdemons I feel like it's mostly where you live because the schools around me are 50 bucks
That's a great price, I guess BJJ is becoming inexpensive. However, $79 a month is a great deal for 4-5 days of BJJ alongside striking/MMA.
In the Silicon Valley and New York City tuition is 200+/- at good schools. Cost of living plays a big role
This question is unrelated to this video, but has been on my mind. Can you explain Jiu-Jitsu base from your perspective? Perhaps in a separate video you could also talk about Leverage. I'd love to hear about these things from a Kama jiu-jitsu / Rickson Gracie perspective.
I train at my college for 30€ a semester. 45€ for a JudoGi I bought and protection for my balls for 10€. I had rash-guards in my place I gathered over the year. To me it doesn’t matter to have fancy stuff. To me it is all about having the bare minimum.
But you know of course that there are people who really can't afford it, though.
everyone has priorities.
@SA SPURS I think his point is that one must be honest with themselves with what their priorities are.
Neal DoubleAA Yeah, but nobody sucks dick for Jiu Jitsu lessons.
Try to find one on lessons a couple days out of the month or find a partner you can train with while watching online videos.
Priorities do not always stem from material objects as your examples of cars and home express. Poverty is real and for many not a choice, to say that there is not a person in the world who could not afford jiu jitsu, particularly if they prioritize, is thoughtless and irresponsible.
I do enjoy your videos however.
160$ a month most ppl cant afford that . thats half of a gas bill or power bill for some folks
A fitness instructor at LA Fitness is $65 a week right now for one session a week.
Jujitsu maybe cheaper than when you were training but not cheap! A good school here in NY will run you $200 monthly and that’s on the cheap end. I just spent over 5k total for annual memberships for myself and my daughters. I love it and so do they but that’s a tough bill.
It’s just 💰.
🤷♂️
You’ll always make more, and we can’t take it with us when we die.
@@KamaJiuJitsu I agree and I feel it’s a well placed investment but I can understand how it could be a hinderance for people. I would have started training 15-20 years ago if I was able to afford it
to me 120$ is about the sweet spot, of course id rather pay 100$, but to me over 160$ being a broke college student is too much as i budget and i barley have enough to pay 120$
You do you.
I started while in college in ‘89. I paid today’s equivalent of $212/mo for classes and the equivalent of $106/wk for each 30 min private.
So, $636/mo.
And I only worked part time parking cars at a hotel at that time.
Bjj is quite expensive, here in Sydney it costs $65 per week unlimited classes
Per week?!
I wonder what the suite lease rates are for the school. That could be the answer to your question.
Damn, in Brisbane my gym charges about 85 a fortnite, with 4 across the state. 10% off for each family member that joins, kids are cheaper, it is quite steep but what my daughter and I get out of it is invaluable. Haven't met anyone who isn't cool or helpful. The environment and culture in our gym makes it worth it.
"In the absence of value, cost is a problem" so incredibly true. Also it totally comes down to how badly you want to train, explain the situation and offer to help out around the gym, clean the mats, that sorta thing.
I’d pay $200 a month if the teachers , program and school were worth it
I have had some job and income instability and there were times that I couldn’t afford my Jiu Jitsu membership. Partly why I’m a 10+ year blue belt.
I left my last school that was half as much as the school I'm at now cause it was not what I wanted to learn.
Hi again Ryan. Thanks for answering my last question about Ju do Vs Jitsu belts! Another difference I've noticed is that Judo operates under a non profit business model. They tend not to own their own facilities as much, and we pay a fraction of the price for training as it's just to maintain the mats. Almost every Judo place I know is at a YMCA or Community/Leisure centre. I feel like there's advantages and disadvantages to both, such as pricing, and the obvious drawbacks of having an imperment dojo (Having to pack and unpack mats every session,etc). What do you think of BJJ schools adopting a more Judo approach, and vice versa?
My local BJJ school gives trusted members keys to the gym, and as such they can train and drill even if their job rota doesn't allow for them to make class that week. Does Kama JJ or any other JJ schools you've heard of do this? Seems like an excellent way to give students more value for money out of their membership, at no extra time/cost to the business.
For context, the local Jiu Jiitsu school charges £50 a month, whereas the Judo classes are £100 a year. Judo has 4 sessions a week, BJJ is more or less unlimited.
As a person who has trained in Judo at non-profit/recreational clubs and at professional ones, I see a clear difference between the two. When the instructor is doing it full time, they tend to put a lot more care into quality instruction (if they lose students the business shuts down). Students who pay more than a trivial fee also tend to take it more seriously. Non-profit schools tend to be staffed by volunteers, who work regular jobs and have varying degrees of commitment to the school. Of course, I know a lot of "volunteer" judo coaches who are phenomenal [I got my Shodan and did a majority of my training under one] and some commercial ones that aren't as good. But someone who does Judo or BJJ for a career is on average going to devote more thought to what they teach. I also see the results at local tournaments where full time schools usually do better. Just my two cents, and I'd be interested to hear other thoughts/opinions.
I definitely agree with you as far as the students. Most of the Judo students aren't nearly as commited to making every class as the BJJ crowd. I started in BJJ, and have noticed that most guys who are very frequent on the Judo Tatami also have a BJJ background. It's also possible that it's thanks to the BJJ culture. Judo players typically have less of an "Embrace the grind" mentality than BJJ guys in my experience. I don't have enough experience to say for sure, but maybe Judoka burn out and quit less frequently though? Good points, Isalehyan.
There is tremendous variation in quality/mentality across Judo schools. The "grind" at high-level, competitive Judo clubs can be intense. I've seen people literally throw up after intense warm-ups, get slammed 40-50 times during practice, and then go into an hour long randori session. Then they go lift weights. There is a difference between "elite" judo and "recreational" judo. National/international level judo competitors are as tough as they come, but that style of training isn't for most people. But, back to the original point, if you paid $30/month, skipping a week of classes doesn't sting as bad as paying $150/month.
Where do you train? I'm assuming that you're in the UK? If you find a Judo instructor that comes through Neil Adams, you'll see some phenomenal judo.
Love whoever is putting house music on the vids. BTW could you give me title and artist? Thanks
I think the artist’s name is Ehrling.
+naadabindu I try to put which ever song I use in the description for people to look up. It's called "You and Me" by Ehrlich! He's got good songs for sure! -Rusty
thanks! got it")
+Kama Jiu-Jitsu Ehrling* excuse me.
Cali it's $150 a month for a class, talk about insane
Irvine is a poor example.
A lot of North OC families can barely put food on the table let alone classes. Priorities are real, but so is the reality that people cannot afford classes.
you don't think some people in irvine don't feel some of the same pain as those in North OC? shoot, doesn't North OC include Yorba Linda, Anaheim Hills, Villa Park, Brea, Lemon Heights, North Tustin, and the Santa Ana Artist District? All are areas with just as much money as Irvine.
then again, driving up to LAX on sunday, i saw maybe 5-6 teslas on the 405N along the drive.
priorities...
or, maybe it's something else. i dunno. i made room in my budget in '92 to train at BOTH Gracie Torrance AND Rickson's place while living in the "L.A. Strip" on 204 St in a crappy 1bdrm apartment in Harbor Gateway at Western and Del Amo (20341 South Harvard Blvd, to be exact). i drove a shit 1976 honda accord, ate only fruits and hamburger helper, drank only water, sat in the laundromat every sunday doing my laundry for the week (while reading books, of course), while working an entry level job in finance in downtown.
just saying. i didn't give myself an excuse.
i just got it done.
but i've never walked in your shoes, so your situation is unique.
Merry Christmas.
jiu jitsu is just a business and nothing more. Gastao gracie father of carlo and helio was a businessman and politician and the familly continues the tradition for this reason bjj make so good propaganda and costs a lot but more and more people practice. But today most school teach spory jj and are very expensive, i prefer practice under a gjj instructor and pay the same amount of money that pay someone who just do a sport
I've checked out websites but can't find monthly rates.
A lot of places make you do a free trial. After the euphoria of training, they bust out the pricing plans.
Props to those gyms who are upfront about their rates!
Originally the privates at the garage cost $20 a half hour. I wish I would’ve taken advantage of that more often. But u r right . Always prioritize and see where ur money is going. Btw check out my photo and see who’s there. Also I’m there too.
Oh, man! I (Ryan) would’ve been “take my 💰!!”
Kama Jiu-Jitsu I just noticed the picture cuts me off because it’s a circle on UA-cam not a square . I’m 2 guys to the left of Dave Kama. My luck. 🤣🤣
don't see you... means it didn't happen! haha!
Any chance you'll expand elsewhere in Texas? I'm in Austin and doing homework on places to get started. Could you refer me to a good school here? Don't care much about competition, although I won't rule it out. I would just like a quality place to go so I can explore this fascination of mine. Aces Bjj Club is the one I keep looking at the most. Do you know anything about Professor Mikal?
Unfortunately, I don’t know anyone in Austin yet.
But I’m hoping we’ll at least have an affiliate out there, if not an actual Kama Jiu-Jitsu campus.
@@KamaJiuJitsu That's great! Thank you, and thanks for the videos. I really enjoy them.
Of course, you can always make a road trip and come train in the DFW campus in Flower Mound.
Are you willing to come train in our dallas/Ft Worth campus from time to time?
What do u think about ufcgyms
don't know much about them. they look pretty good, though!
I've been to a couple UFC Gyms. Normal 90 min classes are crammed into 1 hour... 50 min to be exact b/c post class, volunteers will disinfect and mop the mats just before the next class. Warm up is about 15 min, Technique is about 15 min and rolling/pad work is 20 min.
I think of it as Wallmart. The price is reduced b/c everything is done in bulk. Learning something is better than nothing (and you will learn.) But I don't see them churning out world champions (yet.)
I pay $110 for my sister kid to go
300 Dollars?!! Wooo Wooooff! 🐕
what's the value in constantly skipping inside the video stream?
be more specific, plse.
I was just curious, that when I'm watching the video, every so many frames it seems to skip, or maybe its just the video playback on my side
it could be either the editing, or the connection. you have an example of a point in time on the video you're thinking about, so i can have Rusty check it?
+Me if it's the editing, I do it to make the video pacing far faster feeling than it would normally. Also to remove misspoken things, and the "ah, ums, hm" we all do. That way it sounds professional and far more effective a video. - Rusty
okay cool, thanks for the response, and the update!
Should be free for selected students
And it usually is.
I got injured after my first class. With no explanation my achilles tendon was throbbing. It still is sore and it has been a couple days. It's discouraging.
I’m sorry. It’s a matter of time. We ALL suffer from an injury (or ten) of some sort.
Was there a moment when you noticed it hurt? In my first lesson I hurt my knees trying to do side control escapes. I didn't understand I was supposed to move my hips to shrimp and was just pushing off the balls of my feet. Never be afraid to ask what you're meant to be doing. :D I think that fighting is generally a discouraging thing at first. If you're convinced you need Jiu Jitsu, you'll care more about that than the negative feelings you're getting. After a while you'll go from hyperventilating from anxiety before class to being excited. Good luck!
coops active life yeah it just made me kind of angry at myself because I was fine until I woke up the next day..... Nobody hurt me and I was "careful" to not overextend but I guess it was because I am just in extremely bad shape
BloopShow no it didn't hurt during or after class. I woke up and it was sore. I don't even know what I did wrong.
What kind of shape are you in? It's possible you just used a part of your body which hasn't been used in a while. Post workout pain from Jiu Jitsu is horrific until you're conditioned. Hope you get well soon, dude!
I can afford your school I just wish you were here
😆 where’s “here?”
@@KamaJiuJitsu western md
I would move to texas work two jobs to take jujitsu with you
so what's stopping you? lol!
besides, MD is not a "free state." i can't even drive through MD, let alone open a school there, as much as i would love to...
@@KamaJiuJitsu I have family in texas what part of texas are you at ?
a lot of people making excuses to themselves in here
Lol they can't afford it because of all those expenses and those expenses are more important than they're children.
My place is 10$ a month plus 25$ for insurance once a year. The school provides a gi for 45$ and the trainer is a red belt.
It is Japanese Jiu Jitsu though but honoustly i prefer japanese over brazillian so yeah
Where do you train?
Where do I Begin? Even bringing up the fact that Karma doesn’t charge for Belts and or stripes is a mute point. No one should be barging and if they are you belong to a McDojo who’s bleeding you for every penny and you need to walk. Number 2, in my eyes - $279 is outlandish and dare I say borderline absurd. Maybe if Rickson himself taught daily, but sorry not at that rate. Not to mention you’re schools are located in some areas that let’s just say aren’t hurting for money and can afford those rates. But hey, that’s business and I don’t fault anyone for that. If people pay that who am I to tell them what to do w their money. Im sure your capitalizing on those affluent areas. Thirdly, affiliate schools and kids bring in the money. Let’s be honest, as do add ons, “Advance training, or expedited training” Special kids programs, varying Belts and groups that parents are charged for are all scams implemented by schools to again extract as much coin out of their students pockets as possible. Not saying KAMA does this, but if your school does it’s a red flag. Im sure Rickson doesn’t allow the use of his name on KAMAS logo for free so some of that tuition goes to him as well. It’s all relative and one has to ask, do you want to get involved with a business that offers packages for training ie 2/3 times a week for $xyz, unlimited for $xyz - IMHO Those are schools looking for a buck.
Mike Lima the rate I mentioned is the most expensive rate. There are cheaper rates here. Funny how you have your beliefs of what’s absurd without knowing anything. You’ll pay for goods and services what they are worth to you. Don’t tell me you go cheap for everything, because you’d be lying (see, judgement without knowing anything about you.).
At any rate, I guess we won’t be getting a visit from you to either of our campuses, which is fine.
Happy training!
Oh, and last time GM was teaching classes at Prof Kron’s a couple years ago, it was done only as a drop in, and it was $100/ea, if I’m not mistaken.
Also, some very legit schools charge for belt testing.
What exactly is a McDojo, and what are your qualifications for determining one?
Since when is it bad to be paid (looking for a buck, as you say) for doing a job? Do you work at your occupation for free? No? Maybe you’re a “McWorker” just trying to make a borderline absurd buck off another person/company?
I dunno. Just going with your line of thinking on your comment...
Kama Jiu-Jitsu (Apologies, just seeing this) To address your questions - “Legit” School
Or not, personally I think it’s bullshit and it Karate type stuff to charge for a “Belt Test” You think I’m ready for my next belt? Give it to me. As a Black Belt I’d hope you’ve rolled w me enough or watched me in class to know where I stand. If not, you’re not paying attention as B.B./School owner and eventually your students will walk.
As for making a buck, I don’t disagree. We all have to eat, but where do you draw the line and start calling it over priced? Let’s not forget those propagandists out there who “require” you wear their special patch, Gi, oh and gotta add the rash guard underneath, oh and you have to wear spats underneath too, then don’t forget the whole NoGi uniform as well.... those are the beginnings of a McDojo to me. I’d avoid those schools like the plague. Free commerce is a beautiful thing. It’s why we have choices.
cannot even afford a decent gi. one step at a time i suppose. housing, groceries, & gas come first.
Why? Get a better job or move to a place not so expensive
Bjj is very very expensif
It can be.
Was your dog, Cringy, acting all cringy when you're talking about prices and services?
Teach yourself.