All Our Patent are Belong to You // Tesla Patents 101
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- Опубліковано 28 чер 2024
- Elon has said patents are for the weak and that Tesla's patents are open source, so why does Tesla still patent inventions and why does Tesla still sue companies over patent infringement. To explain this, I'll walk you through patents 101 with a focus on Tesla, including Elon's comments about patents and Tesla's 2014 blog post 'All our Patent are Belong to You.'
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Timeline
00:00 Introduction
01:03 What is a patent?
01:33 Patent Requirements
02:31 The Social Contract of Patents
03:08 The Limits of Patents
07:02 All Our Patents are Belong to You
12:21 Patents are for the Weak
15:09 Summary
Intro Music by Dyalla: Homer Said - Наука та технологія
I once worked for a company that had licensed a patent from a university, which kept potential competitors out of the market.
What no competitor apparently noticed is that the university at some point failed to pay the annual fee to uphold that patent, removing the protection it grants.
Maybe it should also be noted that registering and maintaining patents can be a significant expense. You need a patent attorney to properly formulate the patent application, your engineers/scientists need to devote some valuable time to draft or help drafting the application, make drawings, think about what claims you want to make and how competitors might circumvent your patent (and use claims to prevent that) and you need to pay an annual maintenance fee in every country that you want covered and those fees typically rise every year during the life of a patent.
Cost might be less of a concern for multi-billion dollar companies but smaller co's that would use external attorneys need to be selective about what they patent or how many countries they include.
I love little anecdotes like this
What gets me about the whole patent process is how arbitrary it is of who gets the patents and who doesn't get them.
Well said.
One huge reason to file patents is to prevent other businesses from suing Tesla for using technology that Tesla developed but some other patent troll actually patented .
It's annoying that some youtubers keep making videos about patents while having almost no idea how they work and how they are typically used.
As far as I can tell, everything in this video is correct and well-phrased. Props to you!
Thanks man! It was tricky to get it right. There's definitely room for some difference in opinion here, but I tried to nail down the facts as best I could. 🤠
As an amateur inventor. Thanks.
Patents cover two things in general: Products and Processes. All patents should have an expiration that is no long than a decade and if the patent isn't used in producing a product or the process is never deployed then the patent should expire sooner.
🤗 THANKS JORDAN AND ALL OTHER SUPPORTERS,FOR EXPLAINING THIS WITH CLARITY AND OBJECTIVITY 🧐💚💚💚
You're most welcome! 🤠
Thanks Jordan, I appreciate your effort to make this topic clear and simple.
Excellent explanation. Now I have a video I can share whenever someone doesn't understand Elon's position about Open Source patents.
I don't believe in patents, but I do believe in trade secrets.
Especially with AI you are more and more right.
I have long held respect for patent protection. However, patents have become far more narrow in scope then they were long ago, and it's simply too difficult for a traditional individual garage inventor to get a patent secured, while it's too easy for someone in China or elsewhere to simply steal the idea and churn it out by the millions. It's a tricky situation for most to reap the rewards of their inventiveness.
There were allegations of the Chinese paying people in the patent offices to send them all the pending patent applications! 😊
I would have loved an explanation about some cases where Tesla sued other companies about patents to understand how and why it happened.
learned something new: the reciprocity catch. Now I understand why no competitor dares to use the Tesla patents and lose the last tiny advantage they think they have over Tesla with their own, expensive patents
nice "all your base are belong to us" wordplay 🤣
Jordon great job as always. Another point (maybe you covered it not sure): I believe Teslas patents are effectively reciprocal, that is if you sue Tesla for violating your patent you forfeit the protection of being able to use Teslas patents with legal protection. So if Tesla intentionally or not, infringes on your patent, you can only enforce that if you are willing to give up your own access to Tesla's patents. I think it's a remarkably good strategy - helps keep Tesla focused on engineering not legalities. And it is both fair and generous since Teslas patents have to be worth a fortune.
Thanks man! 🤠
Thank you!
I was happy to suggest to SpaceX that they use hydrophobic paint on their Falcon 9 fairings so they didn't have to catch them in the air. That was obvious, though. I also suggested the design of the Cyber Truck wiring harness, but they changed it when they couldn't figure out how to filter out the noise and added ethernet.
Great job, thanks!
Thanks Jordan 😊👌
Sure thing buddy!
Jordan is a national treasure.
Yes, I know I’m repeating myself.
I always appreciate hearing it 🤣✊🏼
A company's patents being Open source from an engineers perspective means that investing yourself in the company isn't a 'dead end'.
When the company is done with you, the knowledge you gained on the job will be valuable elsewhere. This has all sorts of implications, resulting in a more attractive workplace.
Great insight thanks!
Yes, lots of good ideas stand the test of time. 20 years gives anyone a plenty of time to cash in, IMHO.
The LFP battery chemistry patent is a case in point.
Thanks for clarifying this topic as it seemed to be very controversial but knowledgable people tend to be more fact based than emotional.
Note that depending on which survey you look at, the attractiveness of Tesla and SpaceX as employers of engineers varies - using this metric as an assessment of Tesla's future potential is therefore problematic and a range of surveys should be looked at.
democratic free market capitalism is based on voluntary exchanges of resources (or ideas) on COMPETITIVE markets, where the 'free' in 'free markets' stands for supply and demand being FREE to adjust to each other. A society granting monopoles by shielding individual suppliers from competition via any form of Intellectual Property BREAKS this core principle and creates a winner-takes-all-environment.
Verdict: IP is unsustainable
"Patents are for the week!" I love it. Makes a good point.
What should be mentioned is the pharmaceutical industry who relies extremely on patents. Its also because they have (I think its somehow in, or linked with the patent) extremely high expenses and it takes a very long time (10-15 years or even longer) until they can bring the products to the. In this area patents can last I think 3 years longer. So in the past they had a very good protection and a kind of monopoly. Currently Novo Nordisk is in such a position. But it was said there are already competitors. Maybe this extraordinary good method of keeping competitors through patents is even falling in the pharmaceutical industry (included Biotech).
WOOHOO!!!!!!!
cool
Grata conhecimento e vida nos liberta Deus o proteja sempre es gigante e realmente faz a diferença nesse mundo eterna gratidão
Thanks for the kind words!
What Elon means, Workaround developments or foreign corporate implementation justify not paying royalties when borrowing isn't feasible.
What's there not to like?
👍
Patents are not for the weak. Most patents don't matter but the ones that do can carry a billion dollar company. Recently in the battery industry, LG ensol and panasonic combined many of their patents that do and don't matter into a patents consortium "Tulip Innovation" in hungary and are about to play gate keeper with all these new players in europe and internationally (with a focus on china-based companies setting up shop in europe)
Having six of my own(2 expired) is a battleground for deep pockets. Yes, you may have a patent but if you cannot afford to defend it, it is useless. The best time to exercise a patent is during its pending phase before it is published.
Brings to mind the Sears Craftsman debacle over the push button ratchet release on its socket wrenches. Sears flat out stole the idea from a private individual. It took 13 years of costly litigation to settle for a measley one million.
Sometimes depending on the focus of the patent, it is better to maintain a trade secret. Think of the Coca-Cola recipe.
Tough game.
Yes, rapid innovation is the name of game.
No, we don’t need more roadblocks to innovation, to manufacture.
This is a new field of technology, required to address AGW.
There is a public interest / moral issue.
Great example!
@@iandavies4853 but would technology have developed over the past 200 years at the tremendous pace it has without a patent system? That is highly doubtful. The patent system does not exist to reward people but to stimulate innovation (by rewarding people in return for disclosing their inventions).
Quite a few commenters here argue that trade secrets are the way to go. But if inventions are not disclosed to the public, other people won't be able to use and improve them.
imagine a level playing field of entrepreneurs.. all innovating and competing with each other - no IP rules.. there will be no big companies there, because no one will be able to corner a market, which is what Free Market Capitalism is actually about - voluntary exchanges of resources on COMPETITIVE markets.
Introduce IP and a few lucky ones will be shielded from that competition and are now able to corner a market and optimize for profit - profit which normally incentivizes competition to JOIN on the supply side to increase the supply until it meets demand AT COST.
IP rules create the big (bad) company marketeers have convinced the small lone inventor of, to protect them from and BREAK free market capitalism, creating a winner takes all environment.. which is what we exist in.
It is not innovation that matters. It is the pace of innovation says Elon. OEM’s regardless of Tesla open sourcing their patents, are too cumbersome requiring meetings upon meetings to decide on a gizmo to be added to a vehicle and a further two years to develop and introduce that gizmo..
Tesla make fifteen iterations on every vehicle every week that are implemented into the vehicles as they are moving along the production line. So every new Tesla cars have greater innovation than the ones preceding them.
Solid video game reference #allyourbase
I wonder how many people even get the reference "all our patent are belong to you"?
😁
I want a cheaper smaller slower 2 door tesla
It will be called an Aptera
Which I rent by the trip, then banish.
2 doors, two seats
There are too many cars on the road. Like housing price, car prices will go up and force out the poor.
@@kimmium See Autoline, Peak Auto: High tide USA per capita auto ownership occurred during 1978.
I am a patent attorney and I doubt I could improve much on this piece. Elon came out of the IT industry where patents are commonly used for licensing. This seems to be the foundation of the approach he has adopted with Tesla. Patents are still being used to maintain some control of the innovations, while requiring other actors to innovate and not just take.
❤️ Really happy to hear it. Thanks!
This is definitely not my area of expertise and I try my best to get things right
You need to check your patent # source. Tesla Inc (EV business) only owns 416 active patent families. This is a very very small number for a large company. So small it is essentially zero. For comparison, Toyota has 54,424 active patent families.
Thank you for mentioning this.
The could be a clear indication that Tesla does the patents maybe in 1-2 countries. Others do it in nearly all the countries they produce and sell.
I am again with the idea of: Freedom to Operate. Making sure no patent trolls can come around claiming an other patent is violated.
Having a granted patent is the proof that the technology or product has not been there anywhere in the world. (
I was told it happens very very rare that there is a failure and the patent examinors did not realize that the idea was already there. Then have to reject the patent application. It would not be possible to get a patent anywhere in the world.
Patent trolls are a real thing.
To block other companies to patent ideas that have already been invented by tesla they dont need to patent the idea but rather just publish it officially on a conference talk, research paper etc...
Interesting point!
But Tesla needs patents for cross-licensing in case they need to use someone else's patents.
Patents... the biggest co-opt of human progress that ever was, and one of the worst systems humanity has devised for control.
On surface level it's a great idea, but if you look any further it shows it's true nature. I'll skip this one, I already know too much.
🤣💯
Please edit the title!
I have no clue what you mean
@@thelimitingfactorit should be something like "all our patents belong to you"
He is copying the document that Tesla issued
@thelimitingfactor it's very poorly written, but as I learned later from listening to the video, it's a correct quote. Ick. 😂
Another reason why Tesla is uniquely great.
I had a useful idea so I wrote my thoughts and send letters back to myself with postage guaranteed mark. But recently someone else has similar thoughts but show on UA-cam. Where do I do from this.
I don't understand
Patent poker. 🎉
GOAT
Is a company better able to retain its trade secrets by not apply for patent protection? I am thinking of SpaceX. No one else, not even China, has been able to land and reuse a booster rocket. If SpaceX was awarded patents for its reusable rocket process then other countries would be able to follow the patent documentation and build its own Falcon 9. ( is a patent holder obliged to answer questions when the explanation of the product or process is too vague? )
As I indicated in the video, bringing a product to market involves solving thousands of problems, and the patent only solves one
That's especially true for rockets
I also answered the question about being vague. The patent has to be explained clearly
However, they don't have to share trade secrets, which are a separate thing
@@thelimitingfactor I appreciate your content very much.
The way I see it is this. If you use a Tesla patent that basically means you have allowed, by default, Tesla to use your patents. What I would imagine was especially valuable to Tesla in the early days was avoiding litigation when pretty well everything they did could have been argued in court. The big legacy OEMs could have just tied them up for years and out spent them. What saved them then I think was that no one in a position to block them actually thought they could pull it off. With all other manufacturers now adopting Tesla's NACS this should open the door to Tesla being able to copy anything another manufacturer comes up with. Very clever.
It cuts both ways
It wasn't some sort of cunning plan, it was just pragmatic
@@thelimitingfactor Maybe a bit of both. Elon thinks a long way out.
And also. Great patent explanation Jordan. Trademarks are also interesting.
Tesla gave up all exclusive rights to NACS in order to allow it to become the standard.
It still benefited because this precluded the government from stepping in to establish an inferior standard that Tesla and its customers would then have to pay big money to adapt to at a later date.
Therefore other companies adopting NACS will have no impact on Tesla's general patent policy.
This policy is probably most useful for small companies serving some niche who weren't going to be producing much in the way of patents anyway.
Yes, I enjoyed this video and hit the like button because it’s all I can afford for now. I just hope my Tesla shares 10x soon! As an aside, one point you made in this video really helped me understand Elon’s strengths. You said that Elon is a great engineer and that is why he attracts so many great engineers to work in his company. Too often I have seen claims that Elon’s not an engineer for all kinds of lame reasoning but if he’s not an engineer, then how can he attract so many great engineers? Great engineers, not just engineers, they’re a special breed!
🎯🤠🙌🏼
The patent is nearly the best idea ever invented to prevent lawyer starvation. It can't really help anyone else. It's an attempt to kill competition as well as possible for a length of time. Not good IMO.
patents got actually invented in 14th century Venice to prohibit non-domestic competition from competing with the local trades / merchants.. so a purely anti-competitive measure. _Same for copyrights, introduced in 17th century England to prevent competing publishers from reprinting books, which was no problem until then and kept on going on the continent for another 100 years_
Patents, like copyright, stifels creativity and innovation. At least patents have a more reasonable time limit than copyright. Trademarks are great though, since they protect costumers from fraud.
15:10 Stating your unsubstantiated personal opinion that "patents are useful" was really unnecessary (and somewhat irrelevant) in an otherwise good video. One could even argue that the other points made in the video mostly run contrary to this opinion.
Elon sometimes offends me. But usually is because I don’t understand him. When I see all that he has done for America and Americans I admire him and respect him
Exactly. Elon is decade ahead of everyone, is exposed to way more ideas.
When he offends, generally we eventually catch up & understand his position.
I appreciate those such a Jordon, keeping us abreast of tech, explaining reasoning.
With AGI, it’s all going to develop much faster.
Musk really is the GOAT.
It's a personal decision as to whether or not to be offended. I don't consider offense obligatory and it's mostly BS anyway in this case.
❤️
The language in Tesla’s patent use is crazy. Tesla guidelines make it impossible for anyone to actually use them. They have to agree to give up pretty much all of their own IP rights wrt Tesla in perpetuity to use them.
But Tesla is also simultaneously giving up theirs. Even Steven?
Big problem with Tesla is that it doesn’t seem very interested in manufacturing. Other than niche CT, no new models for many years now.
Tesla is only one making a profit.
It pays to be selective, to make lots of units of few models, minimise expense.
The "niche" cybertruck will ramp to huge numbers, mass produced.
The number of innovations is incredible, follow Sandy Munro for eg.
Not interested in manufacturing??? Umm nope. They make the most sold car model on the whole planet. Why would they need 45 models?
@@ABa-os6wm Why more models?? Get there before the competition. Employ more people. Sell more vehicles. I am an Elon fan because I thought he was leading the way on how to manufacture products in the US.
Or, sometimes it takes years to create a manufacturing leap
Everything that's required for the unboxed process took about a decade to organize
@@thelimitingfactor but the concern is that Elon does not have the desire nor plan for Tesla to be a top tier vehicle manufacturer. It is 5 years since the model Y. Spin off a new company. Investors would fund such an IPO.
Despite the perfect English narrative, this video is marred by a single slip...
All Our Patent are Belong to You // Tesla Patents 101
Thanks anyway.
😂 Someone didn't get the joke
@@thelimitingfactor OK folks. Please enlighten me. My sense of humor and irony sensors are somewhat atrophied in these times.
Ahh yes.... The Elon echo chamber. Just huffing farts all day long.
This was all reviewed by a patent lawyer
You're basically just showing your own bias
Tesla are hypocrites, if they really were against patents then they don't need them: they can just publish their work publicly, that's enough of a defense because a patent from another company wouldn't be granted because it's not "novel".
No, they publish some but not all, they keep the most interesting ones while giving themselves a good image.
I covered this in the video, so clearly you didn't watch it
Tesla needs patents for cross-licensing. If a competitor sues Tesla for patent infringment and Tesla has a patent that that competitor happens to infringe, then that makes things a lot easier.
lol elon is not one of the best engineers in the world, look up people who worked with him at paypal, it was a success despite him, not due to him
Mmmm, not sure what you mean.
Just watch the All-In podcast. They frequently praise him, and the group includes David Sacks, who was in the PayPal mafia.
Beyond that, you're making the point for me. PayPal should have been a multi-trillion dollar company. It didn't achieve that because after Elon left, the scope of the vision was narrowed.
Now it's playing out on X.
Dumb people can not recognize greatness.
Without patents no inventor would have a fair chance to profit from their inventions. Patents may seem unnecessary until the Chinese steal your invention and leave you with nothing. It would kill most of the world’s drive to innovate.
That was covered with nuance in the video
patents create the very big bad companies they are supposed to protect the lone inventor from..
patents shield from competition and grant the patent holder a monopol, which is then being used to corner a market, optimize for profit and break the capitalist free market - by creating a winner takes all environment - which is why the world we exist in looks the way it looks - anywhere one looks 4-5 big companies having carved up markets among them and the only thing holding them back from consolidating even further are anti-trust laws.