How to Space Engineers - Hinge Suspension no Scripts Needed
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- Опубліковано 29 чер 2024
- So I took some time to research and develop a hinge type suspension, similar to what you would find in a real car and surprisingly it works really well and does no require an scripts. come check it out and thanks for the view!
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9:50 just goes to show how effective this system is vs the stock suspension. Good job.
"suspension" amirite?
I realize I am pretty off topic but does anyone know a good site to watch newly released series online ?
@@frankmordechai1728 no.
@@frankmordechai1728 the bot that auto replies to this comment failed and didn't appear🤣🤣🤣lmfao
@@manedwolfwithagmailaccount1478 LMAO XDD I was also confused where the auto answer was
Cool video! Quick tip: There is a little notch on each hinge that shows the negative direction it will turn to. In the video you placed the top hinge in opposite direction to the bottom one.
I did not know that, thanks.
I did not know I could actually attach a subgrid on multiple points, as with the rotor heads here. This certainly opens opportunities I did not know I had, but I sure knew I wanted.
I think there is no need in using blast door edges here, clang could be eliminated just by displacing rotor heads little further
Clang can *never* be eliminated.
@@Koldemort Klang is life.
Nice Build! With my own Script, where the hinges won't react linearly, but exponetially (square) like real suspensions, it should be even better. Thanks for the idea, the double suspension holding the wheels straight is a cool idea for SE!
Could you post the link to your exponential pressure script for me? I really want to use a spring suspension system to make some good larger rovers and other wheeled creations!
@@Tonatsi I don't have it on steam, I am just playing around with it.
This is what I have, just paste this in your Prog Block:
(You can change the constants at the top of the script to ajust the strentgh etc.
The hinges have to have the text "Torsion Rotor" in their name.
Have fun!)
float DirectionMoment = 1000000;
int VelocityFactor = 1;
int Velocity = 60;
float ToleranceAngle = 0; //(float)Math.PI / 40;
float AngleOffset = 0.3f;
List Rotors_List = new List();
float Torque;
float Angle;
float AngleOffsetLR;
public Program()
{
GridTerminalSystem.GetBlocksOfType(Rotors_List);
Runtime.UpdateFrequency = UpdateFrequency.Update1;
}
public void Main()
{
for (int i = 0; i < Rotors_List.Count; i++)
{
if (Rotors_List[i].CustomName.Contains("Torsion Rotor L"))
{
AngleOffsetLR = -AngleOffset;
}
else
{
AngleOffsetLR = AngleOffset;
}
if (Rotors_List[i].CustomName.Contains("Torsion Rotor"))
{
Angle = (float)Math.PI + AngleOffsetLR - Rotors_List[i].Angle;
if (Angle > ToleranceAngle)
{
(Rotors_List[i]).TargetVelocityRPM = Velocity * Angle * Angle / VelocityFactor;
}
if (Angle < ToleranceAngle)
{
(Rotors_List[i]).TargetVelocityRPM = -Velocity * Angle * Angle / VelocityFactor;
Angle = -Angle;
}
Torque = DirectionMoment * Angle;
(Rotors_List[i]).Torque = Torque;
}
}
}
@@klotzekehrt6938 nice, thank you!
Very nice.
Designed just as real suspension works. Clever 👍👍👍
Wonderful...just what I need for the terrain I am playing!! Thank you!!
I suppose one could do this with Landing Gear as well. and I wonder if an in-line suspension ala the vehicles from Borderlands or the Mars Rovers would work...
@Christopher Price I made retractable landing gear that act like that 2 years ago, I just dont publish videos, unfortunately there's a lot of interesting physics interaction involving such setups retracting or extending in flight. And I was able to make 60+m/s landing speeds on ice lakes.
Man you are the bomb!! I've been looking for someone to make a video on suspension lol.
Your suspension gave me some idea for my new project. Thx mate
I am so going to use this later today, and use a wheel subgrid controller script and normal wheels. Thank you this is exactly what I have been looking for.
One could to all four wheels, and have rotrs or two more hinges with upper and lower limits. Just using the speed of the rotor or multiple rotors for higher speed.
Thank you for throwing it out there, it's hard to find tutorials for non script builds, I saw a bunch of vtols and wanted one but it's so tragic that I cant build one without scripts.
I thought of some possible solutions but it may tempt clang
Dude this is sick, I would love to see something using scripts to make an actual 4wd independent suspension vehicle. I love rovers but the limitations of normal wheels when it comes to terrain generation can be a kick in the ass sometimes.
Though my question is would you still use thrusters on the rover to keep it on the ground and maybe help with breaking and climbing? Or try 4wd first?
@@fangmindalas6040 I would likely end up trying both. Most of the rovers I end up making are hideous monstrosities with the ability to use thrusters to accommodate for high weight or short bursts of flight.
@Christopher Price interesting, springs are something I would like to see in the game eventually. I recently had to sell my Jeep Wrangler so I'm living out all my off-roading stunts in SE. 😅
there is a mod with this kind of suspentions
Thanks a lot for this video bro I have been working on suspension for a bucket wheel excavator for a while now.
Genious design. I think I'll start using that on my rovers.
Thank you so much couldnt really get the scripts working but this proved to me to be an excellent solution again thanks a ton
that was really cool - havent played for long while so not used hinges - gonna take another look
Lol just picked this up again after a haitus, didn't even consider you can place landing gear on armor and it "locks" down so you can build o to it, thanks for the tips man!
awesome! thanks for the upload
Very Cool thanks for the share!!!
Thanks, helps a lot!
Double wishbone suspension in SE :D Awesome!
Nice job!
I'm curious about trying this with large grid.
My buddy has a private server that is Rovers only and it would be awesome to show this off there
With the right settings on the stock wheel you can get similar results. This kind of suspension though would be great if projectors would handle multigrid projects so you can print in survival. Rule of thumb is to keep it as simple as possible and sadly 3 extra grids per wheel isn't that. I've played with similar systems with FAR greater travel and drive to boot but gave up because I couldn't simplify them enough for damage tolerance and ease of building and repair in survival.
Ohhh 😮 that is really nice. I will use this wonderful video tutorial to make suspension landing gears for my ships. I’m on Xbox X. Thank you for this wonderful video. Subscribed
Blablabla 😝
Baehr was here!
He came, he saw, he commented.
SE soon kaboobel? 😎
@@Baehrman87 haha Hi Bærh 😂👍
An elegant invitation for Klang, I see.
trying this setup in large grid will give you lots of clang sounds
hmm... there is a script that allows you to control wheels connected via subgrids, it was made before hinges was a thing but i think it should would work non the lest. im gonna test this out next time im in the game
I recommend u the build info mod, so nothing gets confusing anymore
So cool! It's a pity can't bind buttons to actions on moving blocks. Besides the script.
Haven't really played the game in a year. "Hinges" didn't exist then. Gonna have to give this a try, because articulated suspension has always been some thing I wanted to do.
It would be interesting to have two sets of suspension and drive it using atmos
It just works
Klang is pleased with your sacrifices. Putting normal suspension at the end of your manual 1?
Can't you just insert a freely rotating wheel with suspension in place of the wheel rotor?
burh imagine how much clang this would have made in older se
That moment when you realize that the regular suspension has the same exact settings
I'm curious how this would go if you put a normal suspension on the end set quite soft and had these set much firmer.
Could there be a practical application for using Pistons between the hinges and rotors for variable lengths of suspension?
Only if you have sacrificed a goat and 100 platinum ingots to KLANG
Ok, but could you do this with all 4 wheels, and use the wheel rotors to change speed?
You should put this on the workshop and even Xbox's mod.io site. I'd love to use this. Modify in my world for using to mine.
nice
1:48 no noooo, noooooo. stahp, stahp.
you can just have all the hinge notches line up the same orientation and naming just becomes an option, because all rotation limits work the same.
Also, your suspension can do with 4 hinges 1 rotor, per side.
Edit: also, the reason most rovers flip, is because their width between both sides of the car. When your width is short, it requires much less torque to flip the vehicle because it doesn't need the leverage.
Indeed, how to hinge suspension... but why to hinge suspension, is the true enigma
could a rover have 2 sets of these supensions with standard weels on them?
Why use a rotor for the wheel attachment instead of a normal wheel suspension part with the stiffness cranked to maximum?
When I get home I'm gonna try a regular wheel suspension coupled to a hinge, kinda like an old vw swing-arm setup. If it works, it'd be usable for steering and propulsion. Might look funny though.
Did it work?
@@Ferit2813 I realised soon after that the suspension would then be part of a subgrid, so it'd need a script to work. In that case, I rather just use different setup.
@@evlkenevl2721 true. It sucks though that we can only use this for unpowered wheels. Still cool though
@@evlkenevl2721 Blarg's Hinge Steering script might work. I haven't used it yet myself but it looks useful!
Thats look amazing, but I have question, can I use wheels attached to rotors like as driving wheels?
Not really. The answer is yes but, they have very little power etc etc.
So if i wanted to have all four wheels using this suspension it wouldn't work?
Once you build an assembly, can't you save it as a unit and drop/mirror copies of it?
Awsome dune buggy.
Wish we could steer with rotors properly to make this the best suspension EVER
One could add a hinge before the rotor (or another rotor if DLC content is not an option) for steering and maybe try Blarg's Hinge Steering script for the control. Not sure if it would work but it is an idea!
Can you not set up both front and back tires like this? Tried it and I'm unable to control the wheel propulsion.
Can you make trailing arm suspension?
is there a way to controll all 4 of the wheels at the same time?
in the latest update doesnt seem to allow you to connect the rotor head again once you place the small block. too close togeather i guess
Edit: nevermind you have to be sure to face the block itself and not the rotor.
this is called wishbone suspension i think, if you play beseige, this is how you would make suspensions offten times, theres other forms of sus too like spring leaf or torsion but in most cars, wishbone is how ppl make car sus.
Is there any reason you are using a rotor instead of hinges for the outside?
My CAT STARTED FLYING
Car
pls make a big land ship that has this and has REAL SPEED
I'm currently working on a base that is heavily focused on aesthetics. Sacrificing efficiency for looks. At the moment, I'm working on the power supply. I'd like to make it look like what it does and the process. Producing the power, converting, storing, and distributing it.
Think you could help me out? My creative side hasn't been working for me. Need something to spark my imagination.
You just gotta find a good mod
great video, thanks!
As a car guy I can se that you rebound is waaaaaaaaay to soft. also for the best suspension experience you need a sway bar in there to. I do belive you can make one by just connecting each side with a bar that have rotors at both sides. This makes them mirror each other to prevent flipping. but still having independent suspension. (This do limit the independent travel tho. So rockcrawlers usually dont have these)
I'm not sure if your suggestion would work as an anti-roll bar, or if it would actually do the opposite.
However, if you rotate the hinges so that they point forwards you could connect both sides to a single U-shaped arm (which would only need a single hinge). That would create a completely stiff anti-roll bar effect. Though I don't know if you'd want that.
In fact, as long as the torque on the hinges is large enough that two wheels can support the weight of the whole vehicle while stationary, I think this suspension doesn't actually need any anti-roll bar effect.
The "supernatural" power of this suspension is that the "springs" (hinges) bottom out (in the static load case).
A normal suspension is always used at a point where it can both compress and expand - which means that the weight and spring forces are exactly cancelling out. (And any energy transferred to the springs is dissipated by the dampeners.) Any tiny change to the force equilibrium shifts that equilibrium to a different height.
In this suspension, the "spring" (hinge torque) can force the wheel down as hard as it wants. (And any energy that is stored in the movement of the "spring" is instantaneously removed by the metal-on-metal contact when the motion bottoms out.) As long as you don't exceed the torque of the hinges, you can shift the weight forces around as you want without moving this suspension out of that "bottomed out" position.
@@Pystro its main feature is to limit the independent suspension travel. Witch limits the roll angle of the car. Making it an "antirollbar" if you want to call it that.
@@Pystro and by making the "springs" stiffer to reduce the roll angle. You take away suspension travel in a way so that it becomes useless. It won't absorb as much. And will be much like not having any suspension at all. You see the sway bar is there to allow for a soft suspension with the advantage of minimal roll angle.
@@Steinersgarage Sorry for the wall-of-text reply, I'll split it in to parts.
As far as I'm aware, there are basically 3 recipes for how to make a suspension:
A: Completely independent suspensions for both wheels of an axle. (What this video is doing, and usually what any video game does that wants a simple suspension. This is also what rock crawlers use, I've been told.)
* features:
BAD: In a curve, the spring on the outside gets compressed, while the inside expands. (I think this is mainly bad because the position/geometry of the wheels has to allow for this unnecessary amount of added travel, which puts the car further off from the ground than you'd like for aerodynamic reasons and center-of-mass related reasons like tipping resilience.)
GOOD: Wheels react well to symmetric shocks (jumps, landings, driving onto/off ramps, ...)
GOOD: Wheels react equally well to asymmetric shocks (going over hills at an angle, the rough terrain which Space Engineers generates, ...)
B: The other extreme is a suspension that keeps the axle perfectly parallel to the car body. (Scrapman uses it for his rear axle in this video: ua-cam.com/video/WyjQXxDvsvM/v-deo.html The axle is forced to stay perfectly horizontal because suspensions in Trailmakers allow only perfectly straight alignment of both connected structures (which is basically identical to how pistons and suspension work in Space Mechanics). When judging how it handles, note that his front wheels still use fully independent suspension, which causes his inner rear wheel to lift up in curves around 6:18.)
* features:
GOOD: In a curve, the car stays perfectly flat, because the car body stays perfectly parallel to the axle.
GOOD: Wheels react well to symmetric shocks (jumps, landings, driving onto/off ramps, ...)
BAD: Wheels can not react independently to single-side shocks. A boulder or hump on one side will send the whole axle (with both wheels!) jumping into the air.
C: Semi-independent suspension.
* features:
GOOD: In a curve, the car stays more flat than the completely independent suspension, because both sides are only partially independent.
GOOD: Wheels react well to symmetric shocks (jumps, landings, driving onto/off ramps, ...)
OKAY: Wheels react mostly independently to single-side shocks.
This can be created by starting with independent suspensions on both wheels and then adding a sway bar that connects their movement, but has some flex so that the wheels are only partially linked. A less usual way to make this would be to make a parallel-axle suspension and then add some flex to the system that allows the wheels some independence.
@@Steinersgarage This suspension differs from real-world suspensions in some significant ways.
TL,DR: I can not picture how you would make an "anti-roll bar" with something that behaves like these hinges. I would guess that an anti-roll bar always needs to be made from something that flexes like a spring.
In any usual suspension all elements (the springs, the "sway bar" or "anti-roll bar") act like springs - with the shock absorbers being the only exception. The further an element is deflected from its equilibrium position, the larger the force. When landing a jump, the more the suspension (its spring) compresses, the greater the force stopping the car. In a curve, the more the inner side of the car lifts up from the wheels (or in other words, the more the suspension expands), the less force is put on the pavement. For a sway bar, the larger the deflection difference between the inner and outer wheel, the greater the force pushing the outer wheel back down and pulling the inner wheel back up. Once any such element returns to its equilibrium position, the force it provides goes to zero again.
In the suspension of this video, the restoring force is entirely determined by the torque setting on the hinges (and the length of the suspension arm), and it is in fact (mostly) constant. In this suspension, the restoring force vanishes when the hinge reaches its lowest position where one of the horizontal arms hits the rotor that turns the wheel - which I called "bottoms out" but more accurately should be called "tops out" because the car body reaches its top position. And at that point you might assume that the force vanishes instantaneously. But actually, the vertical velocity of the suspension arm and wheel vanish and the suspension is held in place (with a force of less than or up to the torque setting of the hinge). The main way this suspension acts is that when there is a shock acting on a wheel that exceeds the torque setting, instead of the full force being transmitted to the car body (as would be the case with a rigid connection), the force transmitted to the body is limited by the torque setting of the hinge. And only that one wheel is kicked up, instead of the full car being kicked into the air.
I have a question regarding the rotors: Why do you need to remove the rotor head when you’re assembling the lower portion of the suspension?
The grids won’t connect right
Basically the rotor head counts as a seperate ship and needs to be placed on the little arm and connected through the panel to work
@@nonnayobuissness5682 ok, that makes sense.
Could you make this with suspension on all four wheels? How would you then control the wheels on the subgrids? If it's at all possible.
You can do that, but you will need to use a script to control the subgrid with wheels. We usually use this script, steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1445055239
@@PandemicPlayground Lovely, thank you. Great video as well. Will check out more of your content! :)
@@PandemicPlayground Apologies for interrupting again. I could not get the script to work on your hinge setup. I'm fairly new to SE. To my understanding, the rotor holding the wheel would count as a subgrid for the main grid, which would be the rest of the vehicle. Would that mean the wheels are subgrids to a subgrid? If so, where do you place your programmable blocks for them to work? For me at least the script compiled etc, but it gave an error message saying it couldn't find wheels on a connected subgrid. Again, sorry for interrupting, but since I haven't really found other hinge setups with same subgrid setup it's a bit hard to search for errors elsewhere.
my front wheels keep getting destroyed when I accelerate the vehicle. anyone knows why?:
You do realize that you don't need to put down a control panel to access the hinges right? You can access them directly through their ports.
You can't access rotors without CP :D btw, you don't need to, because they have only free spin setting on them :D so, no need for CP anyway :D just group them, put the settings and hide :D
@@Cr4sHOv3rRiD3 you can though, You can access the rotors through the hinge ports, or a cockpit, or any block that you can interact with, and bring up the control panel with
Aaaaaaaa sooooo gud
Klang wants to know your location
I build rovers that go 100 ms plus and dont flip.... I'm head out lol
4:26 how did u open that value set window ? Is it a mod.
Ctrl+click
@@PandemicPlayground Thanks you so much
why don't you make an 8x8 with this and a full suspension vehicle so that you can see all of them working at the same time
9:58
Always weird seeing people making build videos and not using build vision...... like wtf how do you not want to make this 1000 times easier
Well done oh yeah and 1st
I made a new design based on your design today, and it is truly epic!
Video on my channel
ua-cam.com/video/LCLr2LLLkJo/v-deo.html
steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2258786806
Okay, I'm sorry.
If you are flipping at 30m/s, you need more practice building rovers. The normal wheels have suspension strength settings that perform exactly the same, just with slightly less travel.
Do i need a Dlc for that ?
@Marionette Loves Gaming Thanks
it's pretty cool that you can build a suspension like this. however, it doesn't make all that much sense to me to have it on only one of the axles. if you want a really off road capable vehicle, there's basically no way to do it in this game because the wheels on a different grid can't be powered with the wasd keys. if you could just map your toolbar keys to different buttons, that would solve so many problems. it's such a minor adjustment, why the fuck do keen not fix this shit?! it's so annoying. everything i want to build that is not a super simple means of transport, a space ship or a drill just can't be done without constantly getting confused with the controls, just because you can't easily map those buttons for each vehicle. why, keen? why?
also you don't need a control pad to change names. just press F on the hatch of the hinge
Не робит
This really won't work at all. It may look like it's working but in any real sense it isn't. The problem is the torque curves for both the rotor and the hinge elements are flat. Not progressive, not even linear like a torsion bar but completely flat. All real suspensions have at least linear spring curves.
The way you have it designed it will stay completely topped out when at rest. When you get 1 kilo too much weight it will suddenly sink to the bottomed out position. In other words there is no way to make it sit in the middle of the travel. In the real world this would be totally, laughably unacceptable.
That is wrong. While the torque may be constant, trigonometry commands that the effective strength of this setup follow the tangent of the absolute deflection angle against the horizontal, being its minimum at horizontal where the hinges' and rotors' combined net torque applies and theoretically infinite at TDC and BDC. While this makes for a very spongy suspension if allowed to deflect both up and down, it is still very much progressive.
@@puddingofdoom There isn't enough arm angle to make the effect you're describing be at all relevant. And even if you were to run the arm from 0 to 180 degrees, it would always just fall through the 45 to 135 degree range without having enough torque to do anything. Finally, because of it's wildly impractical camel hump torque curve, no car designer would consider that an acceptable form of spring.
@@nonetaken7873 "Not enough arm angle" - Well, suspension _travel_ in this case is just a function of the arm's _length_ and thus not really relevant to the discussion. And yes, of course you'd have to limit the deflection to the upper angles to avoid the "camel hump", but that still proves that those other parts you said are wrong, namely "completely flat" and "when you get 1 kilo too much weight it will suddenly sink to the bottomed out position". Same for that it be "not progressive or even linear" where you completely ignored the whole system that adds weight force from gravity and swingarm deflection and resulting variance in counter-torque against the hinges' and rotors' own torque into the equation. So no, this form of suspension is indeed very much not flat and very much progressive. Impractical and practically unacceptable? Sure, but nobody said otherwise.
@@puddingofdoom That's the other thing. It isn't "very much progressive" at all. Including the effect you described the first half of the travel would be just the opposite; regressive.
@@nonetaken7873 But it is. Ignoring the lower angles, the more it is deflected, the stronger it becomes, and drastically so, aggravated by the geometric necessity from following a circle. If that isn't progressive, I don't know what is.
Love the design, i am certain i want to try this out on a larger scale!
After i figured you could edit a blueprint to make a small wheel suspension house a large wheel, i was positive that it needs more experimentation and there are few videos on suspensions in SE
Ps: i made a video on my latest suspension design on my channel if you want some inspiration for what im talking about!
ua-cam.com/video/XxHNqfuzG44/v-deo.html