"Heads HAVE To Roll!" - Lord Ed Vaizey Calls For Post Office Bosses To Face Prison After Scandal
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- Опубліковано 7 січ 2024
- Ministers are investigating ways to speed up the overturning of wrongful convictions of subpostmasters under the Horizon scandal.
Post Office minister Kevin Hollinrake told MPs he expected the Government to unveil a solution shortly, after holding talks with Justice Secretary Alex Chalk on Monday.
Former Post Office boss Paula Vennells was coming under greater pressure over her CBE after Rishi Sunak signalled he would support a committee looking into the honour.
The Prime Minister’s official spokesman said he would “strongly support” the Honours Forfeiture Committee if it decided to look at stripping the gong.
Lord Ed Vaizey says "heads have to roll" after the Post Office scandal to show big companies that "people who mess up deserve to go to prison".
"Management assumed postmasters were ripping them off, new computer software confirmed their prejudices."
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The fact that the workers were all told they were the only ones shows a massive conspiracy against them
Funny how the Tories are doing something about it now there's a election coming
Yes it does.
This what Ford used to tell owners when their cambelts snapped..but had told dealers to change them early...also what Tesla is telling owners when their front suspension fails.
There's only one way a woman gets to be CEO of a big corporation like the Post Office & that's through a "man" - Yes Minister??? It didn't stop there - she was then put forward for a CBE - her "contribution" must have been "distinguished & innovative"! Follow the trail of who got Liz Truss to add Paula's name to the Honours List & you have your "man"!!!
I question the Post Office's Legal Authority to confine someone to a room and demand they answer questions.
Not even the police can do that.
There were a group of people in New York that used to go shop to shop demanding money from shop-owners, they were called the mafia.
Ed davey should now either return his Knighthood or have it removed from him.
She should lose a CBE, followed by the sentence at her majesties pleasure
His.
leave her with the CBE,she deserves to be in that club
Nobody cares about the CBE it's a distraction so the conversation stays away from jail time, organized crime, manslaughter etc.
@@SimonDeBelleme1 Majesty's.
Pendants rool KO.
Vennells and any of her senior managers who conspired with her in this crime should be in jail. Time to pay the price for their criminal corruption.
Them the entire board, non-exec directors, and their handlers. These people you can be certain are all under protection until public outrage fades which it will.
Rules for thee, but not for me....applies to all white collar crime in the UK
I agree. Prison for her especially. Special king of nasty to believe hundreds were stealing. She bloody well knew this wasn’t the case. She was too damn arrogant. They all were.
Lose her CBE and her pension.
Lose her freedom for a couple of years.
Repay her wages back, I doubt it.
The Post Office withheld EVIDENCE & are LIABLE FOR MISCONDUCT.
SHE MUST LOSE HER CBE
And go to jail along with others.
JAIL
JAIL and fined, pension cancelled. Payback ALL their Wages !!!
What about the £400,000 payoff when she left?
@@leskerr9446 all money gained should be viewed like illegitimate gains. That computer was sending money to someone.
I think jail time is 100% fair.
They have purpetrated this absolutely disgusting witchhunt and persecution of these people based on a falsehood and software they have created and required them to use.
These poor people have had their lives destroyed and these head honchos have got away scot free, I don't even think they have given so much as a sincere apology, they all need to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
All the people involved in this lie should be prosecuted!
I question the Post Office's Legal Authority (Given the fact that it has come to light that the "Investigators" weren't even formally qualified) to confine someone to a room and demand they answer questions.
Not even the police can do that. The police can ask questions, but you don't have to answer. Were they afforded legal representation. I bet not.
There were a group of people in New York that used to go shop to shop demanding money from shop-owners, they were called the mafia.
Vennells and her cronies need to go to jail asap
Some of those wrongly accused committed suicide, shouldn’t there be an investigation for corporate manslaughter if it’s found out people covered up the truth and knew they weren’t guilty
yes ive even looked on the Uk website and as far as i can see there is no reason why they cant be
It comes under "failier in duty of care"
they were maliciously prosecuted despite the facts that the post office and fujitsu had and need to be prosecuted on all counts where suicides were the result
max penalty is 20million per offence BTW
Yes. Good idea.
Agree, corporate manslaughter, hostile work environment,badgering, bullying, compensation is the minimum outcome. All these people with selective memories and total arrogance need to be held to account,heads need to roll and prison time needs to be applied, what happened to the sub postmasters is absolutely horrific.
I question the Post Office's Legal Authority (Given the fact that it has come to light that the "Investigators" weren't even formally qualified) to confine someone to a room and demand they answer questions.
Not even the police can do that. The police can ask questions, but you don't have to answer. Were they afforded legal representation. I bet not.
There were a group of people in New York that used to go shop to shop demanding money from shop-owners, they were called the mafia.
And what about the judges and the prosecutors. they need to face justice.
The cover up is worse than the gross mismanagement.
Directors need to be held accountable, charged, and gaoled! "Several statutes contain provisions stating that if a company commits a criminal offence, a director is also guilty of the offence if it is proved to have been committed with the consent or connivance of the director, or as a result of their negligence."
The serious fraud office made a case. Look up blue arrows, I think they got left off because one of the defendants had royal blood. Directors, politicians eg tony blair are let off scot-free. Maybe the results will be different this once.
What could we the public do? I cared but what could I do? Fujitsu should be paying the compensation and had up for fraud. The post office acted like nazi soldiers going into post offices. There should have been IT auditors that could really investigate where the money was going. Where did all the money go that all these people put in that was a computer error.
Yes, there should be it auditors who could investigate and still nothing had been done
Outrageous comment from JJ calling the public stupid. Ignorant remark which should have been challenged by the panel.
@@raqueljo5799in a sense I get where he is coming from....look at who the public votes into office...and they keep repeating the mistakes every election!
Don’t forget Fujitsu. I’m not excusing Post Office but half of their terrible behaviour was down to lies (like not being able to access remotely) fed to them by Fujitsu.
Don’t forget Fujitsu saying that the union guy never visited them and that the visitor book mysteriously vanished and this is the only visitor book that has ever gone missing.
Also don’t forget that the help-desk support line was provided and manned by Fujitsu. So all the lies about the callers being the only one with the problem were from Fujitsu.
Fujitsu should be paying the compensation (it’s relative peanuts to them) rather than the taxpayer, and if they wriggle out of their responsibilities then there should be a mandate that Fujitsu should be barred from competing in all future government contracts
All of the people that withheld evidence should be investigated and where appropriate thrown in jail. Fujitsu should not get away with anything either, it was there buggy system.
Fujitsu actually carried out the theft. They had access to the postmaster’s accounts. The computer glitch story is a ruse, the theft is actually quite blatantly obvious!!
I question the Post Office's Legal Authority (Given the fact that it has come to light that the "Investigators" weren't even formally qualified) to confine someone to a room and demand they answer questions.
Not even the police can do that. The police can ask questions, but you don't have to answer. Were they afforded legal representation. I bet not.
There were a group of people in New York that used to go shop to shop demanding money from shop-owners, they were called the mafia.
Screw up? This isn’t screwing up, screwing up implies an unintentional mistake, this is very deliberate, with consistent efforts to mislead law enforcement, this is criminal, and considering the damages involved, life in prison ought to be the very least of the possible punishments considered.
that fact that people took their lives in desperation should result in jail time for those that pursued them
Giving back her cbe a stupid pointless medal she needs sending to prison and she better be sent to prison omg she ruined so many lives she knew exactly what she was doing she has blood 🩸 on her hands 🤬
This is the work of evil, its truly wicked what they did, and the worst bit is they knew the truth! everything these creatures who were at the top own should be stripped from them that includes honours and bonuses.
Fujitsu, Ed Davey, Keir Starmer & anyone who had the power to overturn, challenge or dismiss the unlawful charges bought against the postmasters should be held accountable in the strongest possible way. Make an example of them and ensure that no other CEO, MP or Legal Entity does this again ! Water Company bosses and NHS Management beware !! We are watching 👀 you !!! Sick of Upper mgt getting away with despicable behaviour and being financially rewarded for it!! Enough!
Ed Davey should be removed from parliament today...
and the CBE was for what? And the Knighthood for Davey for what?
No-one cares about these distractions.
@@kesamek8537 but it is a disgrace that they were awarded.
The sad thing is it's taken a TV program to ' Possibly ' see the wheels of justice start rolling... let's just pray it's not this week's soundbite for these political idiots who until now have stayed silent and avoided this appalling injustice towards these innocent individuals.
perhaps those involved in grenfell and the cladding scandal should make a tv programme
@@garyowen4112you know I was thinking about Grenfell when this story broke. The Executive Managers and CEOs of all organisations involved in both these scandals should go to prison....not one person will though
Thanks to Chris Grayling (Justice Secretary) and Teresa May (Home Secretary) nobody gets any compensation for wrongful conviction.
All Subpostmasters should refuse to touch ANYTHING more until this is resolved. None of them can be expected to use an IT system so flawed and so potentialy dangerous.
So no stamps, no tax ollection, no dealing with Royal Mail (a commercial organisation) no licenses etc. That will soon focus the minds.
The Post Office organisation is NOTHING without the Subpostmasters. What else do they have? Nothing! Yet they sought to persecute the very people they rely on!
Vennels should be investigated but she is just one part of the problem - local MPs, the police, the courts, judges, various local authorities and local papers failed in their guiding principles and actual processes of professional intelligence and/or dilligence. 700 postmasters all suddenly start breaking the law at the same time yet no MP or policeman or solicitor or Councillor thought this is a bit of an odd coincidence? God bless Private Eye, bbc radio 4 and Toby Jones
The police did not prosecute. The post office has their own investigators and prosecutors that took the Post Masters to court and took their money.
For once you can't blame the police. They played no part in this.
You haven't mentioned
" Computer Weekly" who broke the story and Allan Bates and Lord Arbuthnott who would not give in!
@@user-vv9dn1dk2uIf that is your primary concern then consider this - The Police are allegedly organised via intelligence gathering & assessment therefore the huge spike of acts criminal fraud emanating from postmasters etc should have been a 'red flag'.
The fact that no constabulary initiatives emerged during the relevant period suggests that plod were 'behind the curve' to say the least. At worst, they were professionally incurious & blinkered - aka clueless & proud of it
@@paulgeddert6125 @user-vv9dn1dk2u If that is your primary concern then consider this - The Police are allegedly organised via intelligence gathering & assessment therefore the huge spike of acts criminal fraud emanating from postmasters etc should have been a 'red flag'.
The fact that no constabulary initiatives emerged during the relevant period suggests that plod were 'behind the curve' to say the least. At worst, they were professionally incurious & blinkered - aka clueless & proud of it
Obviously PO should compensate the victims but Fujitsu, who knew there were faults in their software, should provide the money or face a bar from public sector tendering.
That weasel Davey should be in jail along with Vennells and the rest of the incompetent Post office board
It seems the days of those in power facing any consequences for their actions has long gone.
There never was a day in history any of them ever faced consequences except during actual proper revolutions.
Sunak is so desperate to win the backing of the general public that by not supporting the awarding of a CBE, he is hoping to get the general public's backing but instead the general public just want a change of government
I would like to think the Post Office will pay back all the money they stole from postmasters immediately, with full interest from the day they stole it.
I question the Post Office's Legal Authority (Given the fact that it has come to light that the "Investigators" weren't even formally qualified) to confine someone to a room and demand they answer questions.
Not even the police can do that. The police can ask questions, but you don't have to answer. Were they afforded legal representation. I bet not.
There were a group of people in New York that used to go shop to shop demanding money from shop-owners, they were called the mafia.
There wasn't even any reason for this. Why? To protect the contractor?
At least initially to protect Blair politically would be my guess.
It was one of his pet projects .. the DWP rejected it and said they wouldn't use it, it was already overdue and over budget, if the PO rejected it as well there would have been a lot of shouting and blame thrown around in the press and parliament about wasted money who's pet project it was and all that.
I imagine he and the cabinet put pressure on the minister who had the PO in his portfolio to get the PO to hurry up and sign off on the project so he wouldn't have egg on his face over it failing, and that minister in turn put pressure on the PO management to sign off on and accept the system regardless of its condition.
..
Ultimately this can probably all be traced back to Blair championing the project back in the 90s when his government commissioned it and gave the UK company Fujitsu later bought the contract .. Hmm 🤔 it might be interesting to know who owned that company back then, how much them having that contract influenced the Fujitsu decision to buy it, who profited from that, and if those who profited from the sale to Fujitsu had any connection to Blair or others in his government.
Just a thought 😁 a contract like that would inflate a companies worth a fair bit I imagine, maybe someone can follow the money and tell us if this was corruption to line the pockets of someone in or close to government back then.
Yes, it’s our wonderful democratic country with fair play for all.
She's losing her CBE, ffs, it's her liberty she should be losing! As for the judicial system getting uppity, well they too didn't do a very good job and should willingly accept that as a reason to surrender their absolute control!
Those responsible for this corruption in the Post Office should all be charged and jailed.Major pay out should be made asap!Disgusting cover up by the establishment and dereliction of duty by Ed Davey.
"Industrial scale gaslighting against these poor sub-postmasters". Close the Post Office and put all the bosses in prison for a bit of their own medicine.
there are 3 things here that need to be addressed.
1 sort out the compensation, the minimum that should be paid out should be at least, the legal fees and lost of earnings for each person.Not some 20k payout per person bs pay what is right .
2. Anyone who knew there was a fault and covered it up regardless of their status needs to face justice and not forget the amount of money prosecuting people who were falsely accused should pay for the waste equivalent to today's value.
3. Make sure that these people who knew and were involved never hold a position in a role where they have authority in public office, on a board as director of a company.
When havecivil servants ever been held accountable/liable or even responsible for their corruption or incompetence?
The 'inquisitors' who interrogated and corruptly bullied and lied should be named, shamed and prosecuted.
I question the Post Office's Legal Authority (Given the fact that it has come to light that the "Investigators" weren't even formally qualified) to confine someone to a room and demand they answer questions.
Not even the police can do that. The police can ask questions, but you don't have to answer. Were they afforded legal representation. I bet not.
There were a group of people in New York that used to go shop to shop demanding money from shop-owners, they were called the mafia.
If this took place in the USA they would be sued for millions.
The people in charge of the post office were quite willing to see innocent people who did nothing wrong go to prison, so it's justice that they go to prison for actually doing wrong.
Do you honestly think the Post Office actually believed these people were all guilty of theft the sheer amount of descrpencies should have rung alarm bells
Agreed but the whole purpose of the system was to confirm PO suspicion that SPMs were on the fiddle. They got it all horribly wrong though.
We need a nation wide simultaneous stand in, or entrance blocking, of all Crown services, or equivalent, whatever it takes until the victims are exonerated, compensated and the perpetrators jailed
Oh what a tangled web they weave,
Then the ‘great’ and the ‘good’ get CBEs.
Dullard Davey doesn't have the dignity to take any blame and admit he was wrong, but he would be the first in line to call for resignations and heads to roll if it was someone outside his political circle who had acted so neglectful and been compliant in ruining many innocent people's lives, and Anisiobi is a numpty, many people (British public) have known about this for years, it's the so called journalists (like himself) who have basically neglected it until it became a TV drama and are now talking about it.
Ed Davies for starters for being an out right lier.
Heads will never roll. This is establishment involvement and we know how they cover up for themselves.
" rules for thee, but not for me " applies here!
If victims of the scandal went to prison then those covering it up/lying should be jailed to.
Public inquiry into the Managment of the Post Office, Fujitsu and the Government 1999 - 2015. To uncover who new what , when and who tried to hide it, lie about it or ignore it. They should face criminal justice and or public scrutiny.
Prison is the only way forward for this fiasco, Edd Davey should be the first.
I remember hearing about this years ago and wondered why it was happening as it didn't seem right. A TV program has to be made to attract the media
So where were the PostOffice Board of Directors when this was happening. Surely they are the ooes who should be looking out of a cell.
So shocking I have no words! Those poor people were put through hell while those in charge literally got away with murder, still to this day those whom caused that level of pain to innocent people don’t have a remorseful bone in their bodies!
Those guilty should lose what the victims lost their houses their pensions and prison
How do you compensate someone who has taken their life for being accused of wrongdoing which they never did?🤬
John Sweeney covered this topic for Panorama on August 17th 2015 and nothing happened. There were calls for Vennells to lose her CBE even then.
Let's not forget Private Eye Magazine, who have been banging on about this since 2011!
I think you'll find Vennells wasn't awarded her CBE until 2019.
Or Computer Weekly - since 2009.@@frdavid1066
@@frdavid1066 And Computer Weekly.
John Sweeney is not exactly a paragon of honesty....have you seen the " Panodrama " documentary where he lied to stitch up Tommy Robinson?
It was very stupid of the Post Office having 100% faith in a new computer system.
I was an IT Manager for 31 years and never in all time saw a new IT system that didn't have problems that took a number of "upgrades" and "fixes" to get it working properly and even then any future "upgrade" has the ability to cause more problems.
If introducing new systems you need test..test...test and compare outputs from the new systems against the current ones.
My brother in law sells IT systems to hospital trusts, universities, colleges and schools.
He told me that NO system ever hits the ground running and also that the software engineers ALWAYS leave a back door into the system to easily install updates remotely...I just assumed that this was common knowledge!
Why is this unremarkable politician a Lord?
A pardon? For what? They didn't do anything to be pardoned for. You might as well pardon them for stealing the Crown Jewels. They didn't do that either.
British public are not stupid and we do care. The government and all the political parties have sat on their hands and done nothing for 20 years to sort this problem out.
We all know the post offices bosses will never go to prison. But will receve a massive bonus
In cases like this, Parliament is toothless.
No bite, just loud mouths.
It should be the whole country to put there name on that list.
Starmer and Davey what a dynamic duo, post your vote for these first class twits.
The Horizon scandal had (has) nothing to do with Starmer.
Yes it did, he was in charge of the CPP during this and could have stepped in during the private prosecutions, he is as guilty as Vennels and Davey
You don't mean "CPP". / But to answer your point:- Responsibility for oversight of the Post Office (and its prosecutions) lay not with Keir Starmer, but with those Government ministers who had statutory responsibility for the Post Office. Since 2010, all such Ministers have been Conservatives or Lib Dems. If it had been Starmer's responsibility, Alan Bates and his fellow SPMs would have said so. They have NOT said so. It is Tory and LibDem Governments which have allowed this scandal to fester and deepen for the last 13+ years.@@craigyjp
@@craigyjpthey were private prosecutions, nowt to do with CPS. The PO had their own internal version.
Her and the others involved should all do jail time, biggest scandal in government, and thats saying something.
Name the investigators as they think they are above the Law also.
I question the Post Office's Legal Authority (Given the fact that it has come to light that the "Investigators" weren't even formally qualified) to confine someone to a room and demand they answer questions.
Not even the police can do that. The police can ask questions, but you don't have to answer. Were they afforded legal representation. I bet not.
There were a group of people in New York that used to go shop to shop demanding money from shop-owners, they were called the mafia.
These bosses from the post office should all go to prison.
How can anyone have confidence that they will get justice
We need a new petition, VENNELS FOR PRISON.
I agree someone needs to face criminal offences from the post office and we need to elect a government that will start to act in the interest of the people who elect them
This sort of scandal, people in high places not doing what they're paid to do goes hand in hand with the likes of child grooming gangs which are still on going.
6 days until 'The Emmys'. I know who should win the one for Drama.
I'm sure other people have already said this but no one seems to be pointing the finger at the Fujitsu helpline staff? Obviously I'm only going by what I saw on the tv drama but surely if these people could remotely move money in and out of people's accounts they must know 100% where they put the money?
Mr Diversity’s first comment? To call us all stupid. Thank you for your complex and nuanced contribution to the discussion...
It’s just not true that ordinary voters didn’t care. Like many many people, I wrote several times to my MP and followed this egregious horror story from it first coming into the press. But individuals don’t make waves. Where were the investigative journalists - the Sunday Times were the catalyst to uncovering the thalidomide scandal in the 60s for example. Would that same level journalism (from memory, it took 2 years of digging to get to the bottom of the matter) be funded today?
Ministers have met to discuss the next cover up.
They should face jail time for at least perverting the coarse of justice
So should Ed Davey as was Post Office Minister !!! Is there any petition ?
Massive, massive stitch up by all parties, nothing will happen to any of them, no honour among thieves comes to mind, Dennis
Let's get them all locked up they cannot get away with it
And all those bosses that got big payouts should have to pay it back shaming
They knew the software was bugged and that people were innocent and sent them to prison anyway. They absolutely should do jail time for this.
Has the company who installed the system been held to account
At the very least they should be paying compensation to the people who were wronged
Vennels CBE should be taken away and given to Alan Bates
Surely it should be a murder enquiry ?
WTF is going on , the only way of justice is a prison term. walking on good souls is equal to living in hell
Somewhere in the maze there"s probably a "Minister" lying low?
Would this be an issue if "only" 100 postmasters were convicted? How many miscarriages are required to raise a concern?
Why do you get a CBE for just doing your job for which you’re already being handsomely paid? Handing it back isn’t enough of a punishment, a lot of 'little people' got a criminal record, prison and their lives ruined. Never mind, it’s just another vehicle for the upper level professionals will make a fortune out of the legal fight!
On another point, why is the £100+ million already awarded in compensation coming out of tax payers funds and it the Post Office Counters Ltd Company? Fijitsu also have blood on their hands in this.
Remember, 7 police officers were assigned to recovering Eddie Izzards hat 🧢
Legal investigation should proceed along the lines of backhander deals between the the Senior Management of the Post Office and the software company. Deals for Computer and Software systems are often sealed on the preferences of individuals rather than the ‘best fit’ and previous close ties between the supplier and purchasers, often combined with brown envelopes and/or personal incentives. Checks need to be made on holidays, perks etc provided from the supplier.
This is commonplace in business, and other systems previously installed in Government establishments have failed because the best fit is not always selected. Even experts can be corrupt when tempted!!! Check the tender process and detail. It may explain why the management continued to support was was obviously an inherently problematic system!
JJ. for your info, I have been following the Horizon Scandal for many, many years through Private Eye and what other reporting there has been on it. I always thought this had the makings of a terrible miscarriage of justice. Surely it is up to media outlets to report and let the public know of cases such as this one.
Gov higher ups facing prison...never happen.
Am sick of all these scandals, no one will go to prison as they are all in each others pockets , just like hillsborough they will drag it on for years and years
Enjoyed jail sentences! endured rather.
If no one high up pays the price for this then as a country we might just as well call it a day.
I agree they need to go to prison ,they did not care about their workers they told lies .
What about Starmer, head of DPP did he not say, hold on a moment this is odd. Starmer should lose his title for this and Rotherham