Brother, you are so smart. You are doing this podcast to get access to top-notch surf coaches and shapers for your own benefit! Brilliant. I tip my hat to you!
Hey 👋, Concerning paddling into a wave, Clay nails it when referring to bodysurfing and how you can source the energy of a wave, while gently paddling and comfortably, almost effortlessly stroke into and onto a wave. You only put your head down and stroke like made for a wave when bodysurfing when you are not in the ideal position. Ever noticed how most of the top notch surfers around you seem to effortlessly continue to pick up waves more than anyone else? This comes from hours of intelligent observation, trial and error, and beautiful ocean placement. Grab some swim fins, spend hours really feeling out wave energy and then transfer what you’ve observed onto your board.
I’m an OMBE member. I was drawn to his amazing ability to break things down to their purest most understandable level. He breaks things down until they’re ordinary movements we’ve been doing our entire lives. 👏
Considering the amount of leg workout surfers do, the insane compression and the speed they're holding (and fighting), I'm not sold on the argument against strong leg muscles. Yes, you engage your board by shifting your weight out of the board: this will tilt your board and engage your inside/outside rail depending on where you lean into. But then you've to hold the turn, hold your compression and use your legs to keep the board in that position: maybe someone surfing for that long forgot about it, but I can still clearly remember my legs giving up when I was walking back to the car after a 3hrs session on my foamie. And even now that I'm riding on a shortboard, a long wave will definitely hits my legs harder than any squat session in the gym, especially on good days. These are called "leg burners" for a good reason. I like this philosophical approach where you let the wave decide what your lines will look like and it's definitely true, to an extent. But the wave will not magically snap the board for you. Nor the wave will connect your turns. Surfing requires a good level of fitness, surfing faster, bigger and better waves requires even more. Amazing podcast, it was really pleasant to listen. Yew 🤙
I don't think he is advocating against strong leg muscles. The stronger, the better, as you will have even more power at your disposal (as pros do). He is advocating for the most efficient way of using all the other elements so that the strength in your legs comes as a plus and not as your only tool. Apparently a lot of intermediates, starting to do snaps and stuff, look at the pros and think that the huge manoeuvres come only out of strength. But these guys have mastered their craft to such a degree that they make it seam effortless and the strength is often the only or the main thing that we perceive. I watch a lot of content like this and I think what's interesting about Clayton is that he dissects and explains technique in fresh ways, pointing toward aspects that are not always talked about. This is pure gold. If we change our lenses for a minute and allow ourselves to try new things we might improve in a huge way.
Hi, I suggest you have a good study of surfers similar in body shape and weight to Nathan Noodles Webster, Craig Anderson and Clayton himself. They are all very good arguments for the pure understanding of how you can apply body kinetics, timing and playing with (using) the elements at hand in a natural environment and not need more muscle than you already have….. a good case to agree with you would be if you want to perform better than the world’s top 500 surfers.
Wave judgement can be much simpler than experience or pattern matching. Every location is different so spend your first few minutes in the water observing how quickly the wave face darkens before the waves break. Don't try to catch the waves align yourself so the waves will catch you. Never take more than 5 paddle strokes because this means you are try to catch up. Catching up is just bad for everything. Clay is correct, you can glide into a wave and not paddle much or at all. People hug the bottom of the wave because the space at the top is so limited. Even the pros hunt the lip because it's so small. What most people don't understand about twin fins is the fins are two halves of a rudder. The stabiliser is for the neutral position stability.
I'm still confounded by Oreo vs. Chin Down and feel like it may very well be situational. However, that seems like a bit of a cop out. Also, I don't think you characterized the chin-up technique properly. It isn't a full on cork, but Clay has shown plenty of videos where you can see JJF and Slater and others paddling in and their chin is most definitely not down. However, I've also done a bit of WaveKi and Brad Gerlach definitely sort of advocates a chin down approach. I'm a low-intermediate, but I can say that the Oreo technique definitely helped me improve my wave count and did kind of force me to move off the shoulder and closer to the pocket. However, it also create a bad habit where I kept my hips/chest/etc. further back on the board than may normally be optimal. This was also a bit of a defense mechanism for steep waves as it made me feel less likely to go over the handlebars on a deep drop (which I still suck at). However, I recently went through some surf coaching in Costa Rica and during one particular session, the Oreo did not work. There was a pretty strong offshore wind and if I tried to Oreo I could not get down the face. My coach told me to move farther up, paddle harder, and go chin down and that definitely did the trick. So I'm left thinking that if the wave has a mid-level push and you can consistently get near the peak, then chin-up is probably the move, because it's less effort. However, if you find you're not getting the glide down the face, are more on the shoulder, or need to paddle in early to avoid a late drop, then maybe the chin down is the right move. I definitely want to play in that space a lot more to figure out how to optimize the strategy.
I've yet to completely master the Oreo technique, but the most important thing I've found is to watch the incoming swell and try to spot where it changes from a ripple (where the water just moves up and down) to where the water actually starts to draw up the face. If you can get yourself to that point, that's where the Oreo should work because that's where the wave is going to start peaking. If you're out on the shoulder and it's not drawing up, that's when you just have to put your head down and paddle as fast as you can in the hope that you'll get to the point where the water starts to draw up before the swell rolls underneath you. If I keep missing waves, it generally means I'm in the wrong place to start with.
That's all really great insight - I love the discussion. Both techniques work as you've observed and I'll do both techniques depending on the situation. For me though I think it comes down to a matter of strategy and preference on which one you tend to default to. I've found that defaulting to the head down approach and trying to get in early has generally resulted in a higher success rate.
I surf a sorta slabby fast wave, it’s where I cut my teeth. I watch the bottom only. I don’t have time but to be planing as the water is sucking off the shelf, otherwise there’s no drop in from the top, just an airdrop onto rocks in like two feet of water. I’m weight down, chin down, EARLY, planing at the very beginning of the formation of the bottom curl that is going from flat water to sucking back very quickly. There’s no Oreo biscuit happening. It’s watch the bottom only get in on the suck, do not look back at wave because you won’t go otherwise. There’s no time for Oreo biscuit, at least not for me. I use this technique on most waves, by spotting that reverse sort back flow of water at the bottom and getting the board to plane out onto it. I don’t drop in from the top of the wave unless it’s a super slow wave, but then I just take me time getting up and seeing the best line as I re-enter. Whenever I’ve tried Oreo biscuit, it feels late and slower to me. But I see guys do it when I’m ten yards down in front waiting to catch it at the bottom…this is at softer slower breaks, not my home slabby break, cause there is no real consistent roll in unless it’s a real high tide and the little under ledge I use to get is is slowed down in its suck out because high tide makes the wave and the slab ledge just thick enough to make a roll in. And, the guys doing Oreo biscuit are all 100lbs kids or they’re guys who grew up surfing from babies and can still paddle like a 12 year old in full scorpion pose for an entire session.
@@Gosurfbasis yeah. It makes more sense to me, the head weight tips my board in early, gets it to plane faster, and I can see the water moving at the bottom and better gage my pop up.
You did well getting all that Gold of of Clay in one podcast but I think that'sthe longest I've heard Clay talk without mentioning the Bus Stop or the Coffee Cup 😂 I joined Ombe as a beginner 3 years ago and never looked back. For the first18 months I had a severe Rotator Cuff Injury and couldn't paddle. The Oreo glide and take-off was a game changer and I could still surf and catch waves throughout most my rehab time, with little or no paddling. To the doubters. Don't knock what you haven't tried. It's next level 🤙
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Brother, you are so smart. You are doing this podcast to get access to top-notch surf coaches and shapers for your own benefit! Brilliant. I tip my hat to you!
🤝🤝🤝
Hey 👋, Concerning paddling into a wave, Clay nails it when referring to bodysurfing and how you can source the energy of a wave, while gently paddling and comfortably, almost effortlessly stroke into and onto a wave. You only put your head down and stroke like made for a wave when bodysurfing when you are not in the ideal position.
Ever noticed how most of the top notch surfers around you seem to effortlessly continue to pick up waves more than anyone else? This comes from hours of intelligent observation, trial and error, and beautiful ocean placement.
Grab some swim fins, spend hours really feeling out wave energy and then transfer what you’ve observed onto your board.
I've never heard someone nail down the individual evolutionary steps of surfing so accurately!
Such holistic perspectives.
🔥🔥🔥
Man I love hearing Clayton and his content. Super high-level kinetic intelligence. Rad chat.
Stoked that you’re finding it all useful! Let me know if you have any more questions. 🔥🔥🔥
Clayton drops gold nuggets as usual
🔥🔥🔥
I’m an OMBE member. I was drawn to his amazing ability to break things down to their purest most understandable level. He breaks things down until they’re ordinary movements we’ve been doing our entire lives. 👏
🔥🔥🔥
Yeah Maria.
@@shiverpoolcody He's awesome :)) Nice to hear from you here.
Best coach in the world
🔥🔥🔥
lets gooo dream combo. I've learnt to surf in the last 2-3 years and i can thank a lot of my progress to Ombe Surf, incredible content.
awesome hell yeah
Considering the amount of leg workout surfers do, the insane compression and the speed they're holding (and fighting), I'm not sold on the argument against strong leg muscles.
Yes, you engage your board by shifting your weight out of the board: this will tilt your board and engage your inside/outside rail depending on where you lean into. But then you've to hold the turn, hold your compression and use your legs to keep the board in that position: maybe someone surfing for that long forgot about it, but I can still clearly remember my legs giving up when I was walking back to the car after a 3hrs session on my foamie.
And even now that I'm riding on a shortboard, a long wave will definitely hits my legs harder than any squat session in the gym, especially on good days. These are called "leg burners" for a good reason.
I like this philosophical approach where you let the wave decide what your lines will look like and it's definitely true, to an extent. But the wave will not magically snap the board for you. Nor the wave will connect your turns. Surfing requires a good level of fitness, surfing faster, bigger and better waves requires even more.
Amazing podcast, it was really pleasant to listen.
Yew 🤙
I agree - that's why the pros are always training their legs. When wave power + rider input meet is where you get the most power.
I don't think he is advocating against strong leg muscles. The stronger, the better, as you will have even more power at your disposal (as pros do). He is advocating for the most efficient way of using all the other elements so that the strength in your legs comes as a plus and not as your only tool. Apparently a lot of intermediates, starting to do snaps and stuff, look at the pros and think that the huge manoeuvres come only out of strength. But these guys have mastered their craft to such a degree that they make it seam effortless and the strength is often the only or the main thing that we perceive. I watch a lot of content like this and I think what's interesting about Clayton is that he dissects and explains technique in fresh ways, pointing toward aspects that are not always talked about. This is pure gold. If we change our lenses for a minute and allow ourselves to try new things we might improve in a huge way.
Hi, I suggest you have a good study of surfers similar in body shape and weight to Nathan Noodles Webster, Craig Anderson and Clayton himself. They are all very good arguments for the pure understanding of how you can apply body kinetics, timing and playing with (using) the elements at hand in a natural environment and not need more muscle than you already have….. a good case to agree with you would be if you want to perform better than the world’s top 500 surfers.
Omg! Guilty just trying to make my own speed pumping. Then I lose speed on the turn. Mind blown 🤯 right now. I now know how to fix my problem
🔥🔥🔥
Amazing Clay! Absolute gold 😀😀
🔥🔥🔥
Fun show half way in. Props to the interviewer again. Real skills driving a compelling discussion.
Happy to help! Hit me up if you have any questions. 🤙🤙🤙
Agree. Good interviewers let their guests talk. That’s done here 👍
Wave judgement can be much simpler than experience or pattern matching. Every location is different so spend your first few minutes in the water observing how quickly the wave face darkens before the waves break. Don't try to catch the waves align yourself so the waves will catch you. Never take more than 5 paddle strokes because this means you are try to catch up. Catching up is just bad for everything. Clay is correct, you can glide into a wave and not paddle much or at all.
People hug the bottom of the wave because the space at the top is so limited. Even the pros hunt the lip because it's so small.
What most people don't understand about twin fins is the fins are two halves of a rudder. The stabiliser is for the neutral position stability.
Wow Clayton really knows his stuff 😮
🔥🔥🔥
Great interview and discussion. So much detail, need to re watch multiple times.
Thanks for the support! Let me know if there’s anything else I can do to help. 🤝🤝🤝
Clayton is so patient .
Perhaps that is from drawing energy by going downhill.
🤙🤙🤙
I'm still confounded by Oreo vs. Chin Down and feel like it may very well be situational. However, that seems like a bit of a cop out. Also, I don't think you characterized the chin-up technique properly. It isn't a full on cork, but Clay has shown plenty of videos where you can see JJF and Slater and others paddling in and their chin is most definitely not down. However, I've also done a bit of WaveKi and Brad Gerlach definitely sort of advocates a chin down approach.
I'm a low-intermediate, but I can say that the Oreo technique definitely helped me improve my wave count and did kind of force me to move off the shoulder and closer to the pocket. However, it also create a bad habit where I kept my hips/chest/etc. further back on the board than may normally be optimal. This was also a bit of a defense mechanism for steep waves as it made me feel less likely to go over the handlebars on a deep drop (which I still suck at). However, I recently went through some surf coaching in Costa Rica and during one particular session, the Oreo did not work. There was a pretty strong offshore wind and if I tried to Oreo I could not get down the face. My coach told me to move farther up, paddle harder, and go chin down and that definitely did the trick.
So I'm left thinking that if the wave has a mid-level push and you can consistently get near the peak, then chin-up is probably the move, because it's less effort. However, if you find you're not getting the glide down the face, are more on the shoulder, or need to paddle in early to avoid a late drop, then maybe the chin down is the right move. I definitely want to play in that space a lot more to figure out how to optimize the strategy.
I've yet to completely master the Oreo technique, but the most important thing I've found is to watch the incoming swell and try to spot where it changes from a ripple (where the water just moves up and down) to where the water actually starts to draw up the face.
If you can get yourself to that point, that's where the Oreo should work because that's where the wave is going to start peaking.
If you're out on the shoulder and it's not drawing up, that's when you just have to put your head down and paddle as fast as you can in the hope that you'll get to the point where the water starts to draw up before the swell rolls underneath you.
If I keep missing waves, it generally means I'm in the wrong place to start with.
That's all really great insight - I love the discussion. Both techniques work as you've observed and I'll do both techniques depending on the situation. For me though I think it comes down to a matter of strategy and preference on which one you tend to default to. I've found that defaulting to the head down approach and trying to get in early has generally resulted in a higher success rate.
awesome content
🔥🔥🔥
great great content! 🤙🍻
🤙🤙🤙 thanks for the support
I surf a sorta slabby fast wave, it’s where I cut my teeth. I watch the bottom only. I don’t have time but to be planing as the water is sucking off the shelf, otherwise there’s no drop in from the top, just an airdrop onto rocks in like two feet of water. I’m weight down, chin down, EARLY, planing at the very beginning of the formation of the bottom curl that is going from flat water to sucking back very quickly. There’s no Oreo biscuit happening. It’s watch the bottom only get in on the suck, do not look back at wave because you won’t go otherwise. There’s no time for Oreo biscuit, at least not for me. I use this technique on most waves, by spotting that reverse sort back flow of water at the bottom and getting the board to plane out onto it. I don’t drop in from the top of the wave unless it’s a super slow wave, but then I just take me time getting up and seeing the best line as I re-enter. Whenever I’ve tried Oreo biscuit, it feels late and slower to me. But I see guys do it when I’m ten yards down in front waiting to catch it at the bottom…this is at softer slower breaks, not my home slabby break, cause there is no real consistent roll in unless it’s a real high tide and the little under ledge I use to get is is slowed down in its suck out because high tide makes the wave and the slab ledge just thick enough to make a roll in. And, the guys doing Oreo biscuit are all 100lbs kids or they’re guys who grew up surfing from babies and can still paddle like a 12 year old in full scorpion pose for an entire session.
yeah i'm a head down most of the time guy as well 🤙🤙🤙
@@Gosurfbasis yeah. It makes more sense to me, the head weight tips my board in early, gets it to plane faster, and I can see the water moving at the bottom and better gage my pop up.
"If u go slow u twist, if u go fast u lean"😊
🙌
You did well getting all that Gold of of Clay in one podcast but I think that'sthe longest I've heard Clay talk without mentioning the Bus Stop or the Coffee Cup 😂
I joined Ombe as a beginner 3 years ago and never looked back. For the first18 months I had a severe Rotator Cuff Injury and couldn't paddle. The Oreo glide and take-off was a game changer and I could still surf and catch waves throughout most my rehab time, with little or no paddling.
To the doubters. Don't knock what you haven't tried. It's next level 🤙
that's awesome 🔥🔥🔥