Stabilizers | Do you NEED a BACK BAR?
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- Опубліковано 21 вер 2020
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Seems like every time I need a answer to my bow questions I end up on your channel, thanks for all the info, great stuff!!
Mathews are topheavy. Thats true.
But my vxr nails the pin on the target. Thats true too.
Greatly appreciate the simplicity with which you explain the how, what and why 👍
You explain stuff very well, I hope your channel gets larger so we get this content coming, great for any level archer !
Realy helpful, i had the problem that my bow was tipping over to the left end now i take al of my wheits of my back barr, problem sold 👍🏻grtz from belgium
Totally appreciate your videos. That’s the stab set up I bought, very helpful insight.
Great explanation! Hopefully this will encourage more archers to at least give the setup a try. I learned it on a whim earlier this year when I took the back bar off my 3D bow (minus most the weight) and put it on my hunting rig at the range. Instantly knew the route I wanted to go, just a little tweaking to get the right position.
That's great info! I've been looking into getting a back bar, due to the same problem you were having with your bow.
Thank you for a great video. A lot of valuable information very well presented. I agree with you that a lot of people are confused about what stabilizers are supposed to do. To my way of thinking they have three basic functions. Not necessarily in order of importance, number one is to compensate for, or counteract imbalance in your rig. Some people say they never shoot with their quiver on the bow. But I do a lot of spot & stalk and still hunting and I really don't have any choice but to shoot with the quiver in place. A rear facing stabilizer canted to my left counteracts the weight of my quiver and keeps the bow plumb. Number two, stabilizers (particularly rear facing stabilizers that tend to be lower on the bow) lower the center of gravity of your bow further stabilizing it vertically. Number three, which to me is actually the most important, stabilizers add mass. Mass/weight helps your bow remain on target by increasing the bow's inertia.
Definitely been looking at getting a back bar so this video was insanely helpful
Thank you professor! I will keep this in mind!
Just got my Torx set in today and put on my Ritual 33 ... Ive only had a chance to shoot indoors at 11 yds due to weather, but I can tell I will really like it and I love the way the bow balances and shoots ..
Great video on back bars! I made my own using some corner braces and two short "hunting" stabilizers. I use a Bear Anarchy and it has back side threaded hole for back bars. Others though I was crazy but they work great. Adds a little weight but can still us when "still hunting". Can send pics if you'd like.
Seems like every time I have a bow question I end up on your channel. Thanks for all the info, great stuff
good video, back bar helped me a lot with leveling bow at long distance 50-60 yards was always trying to bring bubble back to the left added time to release major difference when bubble is in the middle.
I ended up buying the same CBE stabilizer set, and after testing, setup the weights exactly the same way as you did. For the price, it's a great value for this set. And I'm also finding I'd rather just not keep my quiver on as it just adds complication to balancing the bow.
From my personal experience back bars are great for ground hunting but from a nest not so much for me . “I hunt with my quiver off in nest” I took a chunk of flesh from a does backstrap with the back bar set up. The back bar kept the aiming point up from aiming at a downward angle. I removed the back bar and swept a buck from the same tree a couple weeks later . I fully agree that they are outstanding giving the situation. Awesome video Nate! Shouts from western Ma.
I upgraded my sight and it definitely put to much weight out front just put this kit on and wow perfect balance and really slowed down my peep movement!
I started using a back bar 2 or 3 years ago. It made me a much better shooter. I have a pretty decent natural cant to the right without a quiver. I have my back bar set with enough weight to level me without a quiver. I purchased a new bow in June (Prime Inline 3) and made it a point to improve my front and back setup. On the back, I am running an 8" Bee Stinger Pro Hunter Maxx bar with a quick disconnect and three 1oz regular diameter weights. The bar is set fairly close to the bow. On the front I have a 10" Bee Stinger Micro Hex on a quick disconnect with 6oz of weights from the Bee Stinger Pro Hunter which are of a much larger diameter than standard stabilizer weights, 2.66" in diameter. I have grown to really like them. They really help with stalking and keeps you from stabbing your stabilizer into mud or soft ground. Right now with this new setup I am shooting the best I ever have in my life. It is not even close, and I have been at this game for 25 years. All I do is bow hunt. 90% of that is from a tree in a climber or saddle. I don't shoot tournaments. This rig doesn't get in the way, and I prefer a stable rig I can shoot over an ultra light one that doesn't hold as well. I have been down that road and won't go back.
Perfect timing on this video. Been giving this a lot of thought
My thoughts exactly
Dude same
Hey me too!
That makes 5 of us
I have been saying that about Mathews for years! Glad I am not the only one!
I just recently upgraded to this exact setup! Purchased mine for around $180 but it's worth every penny in my opinion especially compared to the price of other dual stabilizer setups. I was looking at the one from beestinger and it's close to $250. If you're looking to go to a dual stabilizer setup this one is a dang good deal. I'm still dialing mine in because I've made a few changes in my equipment lineup recently including switching to a handheld thumb release. Side note: I'm running this setup on a $300 bear pledge purchased from Walmart until I can afford to upgrade. I've already seen drastic improvements in my shooting using this.
Great explanation
Was skeptical about the back bar after your video I went and bought one and I’m shooting like a pro now thanks for sure was worth the money
I just set up that same CBE set on my new Solution SS, it seems pretty nice. Looks cool too, I think.
Love your content and how much info you put out. Keep up the great work!
Do you by any chance an extra single pin sight up for grabs? Im looking into trying one out for 3D. Thanks
Love the Mathews poke.
Man that cough, 🤣💀, awesome video. I am headed to my garage to play with my back bar now...
I have the bear paradox. Wt trophy ridge hitman stabilizer. And a qad ultrarest. The ibo is 330 fps. Nice video.
New to archery been practicing for a Week at 40 yards sometimes good groups sometimes ok groups 4-5” groups on average. Bought a sidebar and instantly closed those groups in. Less pin float and perfect balance immediately first group after install was 2” group and stayed pretty consistent.
New here as well. Sounds like I need one too. My pin floats a lot and it's probably from my bad should (need rotator cuff surgery), but I'm thinking the bar and balance would really help me out. I have a small front stabilizer. How did you know what kind of side bar to get?
@@markwest8960 honestly just went out on a limb. There’s videos on how to properly dial in the right side bar. But up here in Idaho it’s some thick country didn’t want some long bar on the back or the front getting caught up so I went with one of the new hoyt side bars I’ll have to check the size but comes right to the end of my bow string. Defiantly helped a lot.
@@xfighter1117 , ok, I'll check them out and see what I can find. I'm just now realizing that I'm probably not as steady holding my bow as I should be. Thank you and enjoy Idaho, would love to live out there!
@@markwest8960 get your grip down and when you shoot pull through the shot. After a couple months of practicing You will be deadly for hunting season.
@@xfighter1117 , thank you and does that pull through also apply to a wrist strap release? I find myself still trying to slowly pull the trigger with the middle of my index finger.
Great video with lots of real world information. I do think bowhunting is becoming overly complicated, at least for eastern whitetails. I like my hunting bows setup simple and my shots are kept 30 yards and in. I haven't found an accuracy difference that would affect killing a deer inside of 30 yards from drop away rests, target sights, or stabilizers. I do however have two bows, one hunting bow that has a whisker biscuit two pin fixed sight and no stabilizers and one setup for 3D that has QAD front stab and slider sight. I shoot the 3D bow most of the year but go back to my trusty simple hunting bow for my stand. I can definitely see the advantage though if you're out west or shooting game a longer distances.
I’ve been wanting to try out that CBE system. Should counter balance my quiver well.
I don’t use a back bar on my elite. Adds weight when bow hunting. I actually use a small limb saver style up front. The bow is very balanced. I do run custom grips though. The reason I’m not a huge Mathews fan is the added weight. However I’m noticing the vxr 31.5 holds on target slightly better than the elite at full draw. I still love my elite. I save the stabs for 3D
I've used a stabilizer setup that might seem unorthodox...but my stabilizer set (it's the cartel dynamics if you're wondering) doesn't come with a lot of weight, so I use 2 back bars just like the recurves. Strangely enough, I don't even use a weight on the front....I know it's weird but for now, until I get more weights, it works decently. I also want to say that stabilizers shouldn't be something to "fix" or mask form issues, back bars are meant to offset the weight of your front bars, that way, your bow doesn't want to fall forward. If you take your front bar length, and multiply the length by the weight you want to have, and then divide by the back bar length you want, you should have a weight that would give you a zero balance. Zero balance is when that bow doesn't want to fall forward, but isn't tipping backwards towards you. The zero balance isn't for everyone, some like front heavy and some don't. Zero balance is a good place to start though! Hope this helped all of you!
I’m interested in getting one to help balance out my bow especially past 40 yards since after the point all my arrows go to the right (the issue of how I hold the grip) this should keep them going straight I have 5 pins too is 20 yards bottom is 60 yards
Thats a sweet looking bow
'20 VXR 31.5 and '19 Vertix...only run CBE Torx 8" back bars on both. No front bar needed. Perfect balance and tight groupings.
Hmmmm, the hoyt I have, I find myself having to physically tilt the bow a fair bit to get the sight level bubble in the centre. That bottom stabilizer was an option that I didn't get.
Hey Nate, Great explanation/review. I received the CBE kit via Amazon and tinkered around a bit. I noticed that my pin float has settled dramatically on my Mathews Switchback LD (cough, cough.......hoooo). Enjoy your weekend! -Pat
I will say I'm MUCH more fond of the older Mathews single cam models. Built like tanks and smooth as butter for their days.
@@averagejackarchery Your Mathews cough cracked me up.
That is actually what the back bar is for. Not necessarily for balancing your bow in your hand but set up properly it will slow your pin float down dramatically. Hence why all target archers shoot with back bars. There are some other great stabilization videos out there explaining this better. The setup, how to, why, and explaining is top notch. Check it out.
Thank you
For some reason, I found that by shooting a perfectly balanced bow, I no longer had target panic. No exactly sure why
When you steadied your bow with a stabilizer, the Pin was able to remain on the target center longer, eliminating the need to “punch” the trigger as the Pin crossed the center of your target.
I love my phase 4 33 and v3x 29 lol
Nate I think I practiced so much the last 2 months that I wore out my whisker biscuit and its an octane one so I cant just replace the biscuit. I'd have to replace the whole thing and get it tuned again and aint it just my luck with the pa season starting in 9 days
Have U ever tried or thought about just off setting ur front stabilizer instead of running a back bar? I have seen a few guys doin that but can’t seem to find a whole lot of info on how it compares
other than the Mathews dig, great video.. ;)
I enjoy your video's. You speak well.
Glad you like them! And thank you!
Levi Morgan says to draw bow check level on sight adjust bar so bow will be level when you come to full draw
He has video on it
Great video young man
Hope you are staying safe at school
I'm trying! :/
So I am curious if the bow does not feel like it is top heavy and doesn't want to lean forwards on you after you shoot It doesn't feel like it wants to drop back but you are getting vibration through it If you have cutouts in your riser can you put some kind of a rubber in there to help with the vibration or at that point are you compromising somewhere giving up something to get less vibration in the riser
I guess I'm just wondering if that's an option instead of putting a stabilizer that sticks out the front of the bow adding front weight
And I get there is side to side stabilization that you can do as well
I just know people that put a stabilizer on to help absorb some of the vibrations they just put on one of those rubber stabilizers
YES
I've been playing with stabilizer placement on my PSE Brute force. I have read a past post on the science of front and back bars but have not seen anything on placement. I have a 10 inch front and 8 inch back bar.
I have my back bar mounted at the same height as my front bar, but as im watching this video and in most other videos, the back bar is mounted lower on the riser. Is there a preferred placement of the back bar? Do you get more stability when it's mounted lower on the riser than at the same level as the front stabilizer?
I was eyeballing the apex gear tailwing....that connects to the string stop rod....
great info! some bows, i don't recall which in particular, advertise that you can put bars or weights near the top of the riser. is that a thing people do? never seen a rig set up that way. i wouldn't want a bow that is top heavy so i dont really see the point but curious to learn why
It is done sometimes in recurve archery with ILF, Olympic style recurves, but I've never seen it in compounds.
What about out of a tree stand ?? ... what about sharp angles 18-20 ft up, 5-12 yds out, and longer distances ?? .... btw, my quiver comes off when in a tree, running a HHA 5519 with the 3rd Axis extension/adapter (Sometimes a Sword 3rd Plane fixed pin) ... been looking at the CBE for the rear as I'm satisfied with my 10" Bee Stinger Maxx out the front ...
I’ve ran a back bar for a while now, never going back
Can you talk about what happens on steep up or down hill shots WITH a back bar especially from a tree stand shooting up or down hill on the side of a ridge? 😎little can of worms👍
I have a Mathews Switchback that was made prior to the Back Bar trend. I have a front stabilizer and a rear stabilizer threaded hole but they are opposite each other at the bottom of the grip. How do I go about adding a back bar? Any specific components to buy?
How did you attach the single v bar on the back for the read stabilizer?
I just saw this video attached to a AT post. Great job as usual. If a back bar alone properly balances a bow, why the need a front stabilizer? What does a front stabilizer add other than additional weight? Please let me know your thoughts. I'm shooting a Halon 32-7 which as you said is very top heavy.
I've found the front bar adds more vibration dampening as well and just in general adds more mass below the grip. Both just help in balancing overall. But you're right, if one doesn't want the weight and a back bar alone balances the bow out, it's not entirely necessary if you don't want otn
@@averagejackarchery Thank you for the quick reply and info. Have a blessed day.
I’ve picked up a bare bow one time and it fell forward like your bow did with jus the front stabilizer
Not trying to be a critic, but when you demonstrate how the bow is "front heavy" without the rear bar, doesn't the front bar contribute to that? I'd like to see the demonstration done without the front bar installed. I understand that the sight is adding weight forward of the riser, but the front bar is compounding the problem even more. But, great video and well done on the production.
What wireless mic are you running? Great video
I have a link in the description of all my videos to my full gear list. My wireless mic is a Movo WMX-1. I bought the Duo version so I have 2 mic packs for when I film at ATA and other shows.
If you mount your quiver “upside down” which puts the FOC below the grip, it eliminates or greatly reduces the need for a back bar.
When mounted to the sight bracket, my quiver head maybe sits level with the grip at best, perhaps an inch or so down. Then I have 31" arrows sticking out the top. I wouldn't recommend putting a quiver upside down on any compound bow.
Average Jack Archery not all stabilizers mount on the sight. I have a 30.5” draw and a Mathews VXR. The stabilizer mounts to the riser below the grip. The bow balances well. How can you recommend not doing what you have never tried? It works great on a Mathews.
Only reason I run a back bar is because I never take my tight spot quiver off and have a quiver full of 500 grain arrows. New bows, especially PSE are built to use only a front bar. Some don’t even need a front bar with these bigger sights. Remember and try this for yourself, every time you tweak your back bar your paper tune changes. Don’t go down the back bar rabbit hole if you don’t have to.
What if you run no stabilizers? Ive never really cared for them, just seemed like added weight for something i didn’t really need, im by no means the best archer but ive killed 3 deer and my two turkeys and its only nov 1st so i cant be doing something to wrong. Anyone please lemme know your thoughts on this
Do you ever bow hunt squirrels or other game?
I was at the range today and I noticed taking weight off the back and putting it on the front really tighted up my groups. Do you shoot a high / medium grip? I use a low grip and my bow naturally wants to pitch forward but just slightly.
I shoot a low wrist grip.
So how much does your bow weigh when it is equipped with all the weights, stabilizers, CBE viewer and hamskea rest?
And compared to that how much does your target bow weigh?
Fully loaded (without the quiver) it's tipping the scales a little over 6.5#. The target bow I have not weighed.
Hey nate, should my string stop have some wiggle in it? I noticed it wiggled just slightly up in down a bit and idk if its always been like this or not. Is it suppose to be like this or is the screw coming lose in your opinion. I could just check and tighten it down but I don't wanna mess with it at all bcs idk if this is just the way its suppose to be or not and I'm a beginner
No that puppy should be rock solid. No wiggle at all!
I had a back bar and liked the balance but it was too heavy and made me shake. I took the back bar off and run a 10 inch in the front, i can hold it more steady but when I shoot it feels like it’s jumping out of my hand. I shoot a v3 31.
Any tips?
Not the Mathews slander
I do not NEED the back bar but having it allows me the add weight in a balanced distribution. Some of the classes I shoot do not allow it tho. (No Hunting allowed without serious travelling)
I use a belt pocket on my waist to rest my back bar. Before using it I wore out a cam resting it in the cup (and resting the cam on the ground ! No simple easy bow stands back then)
Sooooo, if the sight is so heavy that you need to add the back bar, why not just take the front bar off and adjust from there instead of adding an additional bar which adds more total bow weight? I’m even more confused now on stabilizers. Thought the idea of a stabilizer was to steady the pins on target, not to balance a bow.
Stabilizers are definitely designed to help steady the bow, but also undoubtedly to level it off without the archer needing to torque anything. I've seen guys just run a backbar with their system and shoot really well. I like the overall mass weight I have below the grip right now and that's why I'm running both front and back. All personal preference.
Average Jack Archery that does make sense. Thanks for the input. I just need to go to a shop and mess with them a bit. Love the channel and knowledge you share.
How does the CBE compare to the B Stinger micro with dovetail that combines the front and back into a 15” stabilizer just on the side?
No idea. I like the idea of it, but the inability to change pitched and angle away from the bow never appealed to me enough to put one on a bow.
Laughed out loud, then did a Wha'....My Daughter's first bow is a Mission by, Matthews... LOL. I don't think they could make enough stabilization for my Jurassic era Hoyt...
Can you swap those two sights without hanging to re-sight? I want to swap accutouch carbon pro and EZV, but not if I have to resight every time.
If everything else stays the same with the bow. Arrows, rest, poundage, draw, etc. then you don't have to resight in all the time.
Ehen you are shooting from a treestand. Do you want your bow at a 90 degree perpendicular angle to the ground? I get confused because they say bend at the waiste, then the bow is at an angle, whll when you release, the bow will then want to kick up when having a stabilizer. Can anyone Please help clarify.
What’s your go to bow as of 2020-2021? Is it the elite Kure?
For now, I haven't had anything that beats the Kure in the hunting bow category. It just checks all the boxes with all the adjustments and tuning capabilities. Granted, I haven't shot the Remedy yet, and it might convince me otherwise. 😂
Jack did you paint over the CBE stickers on the stablizers? I don't care for their white lettering.
Nope! They're still on there. Hit them with a hair dryer to warm up the adhesive then acetone rub to remove excess stickiness afterwards.
@@averagejackarchery Thanks!
So, I'm messing with weights on my 3-d set up front stabilizer. I'm thinking atwhat length is the best for a given ata, draw length,draw weight. Is a 26" with 6 oz better on a given set up? Imagine the nearly infinite possibilities. Thinking it would take NASA to compute all the variables.
YUP. I don't even both with stabilizer advice outside of use it to counteract the bad stuff. Other than that, the weights and angles are up to the shooter.
Was it difficult to get the stickers off those bars?
The stickers are still on my bars. I haven't tried to remove them.
How dare you talk about my mathews like that! Lol ive never used a backbar but i like the idea. I used a quivilizer for a little bit and really liked the ability to adjust the cant to get my bubble to be level at full draw without having to move the bow. Question. I mainly hunt from a saddle. Do you notice the backbar interfering or coming close to hitting the bridge?
I have orangutan arms. So for me it never comes close. Plus that 7" CBE bar is short as it is. If you ran a super short draw and a long back bar it might cause problems.
@@averagejackarchery ok cool im 27.5 draw. Will def look into the shorter options. Thanks
saddle hunting is cool, but i'd rather have the quiver on the bow, and just shoot throughtout the year with it on, cause i might not always be in a tree. white tail sure, but if i ever want to spot and stalk, better to know how to shoot with that thang on
Can't you just attach the quiver to your belt ?
So I've seen a few people discuss the balance of the bow in hand being helped by the back bar & weight, but isn't this argument somewhat flawed? The other factor that you didn't discuss is the second point of contact which is the release pulling the string to the rear at full draw. I'm truly interested in your thoughts, not trying to be a doubter. Thank for sharing.
Correct, there is a another connection point, but that connection point doesn't offset side pressure/weight from the rest/sight/quiver. That pressure is always there and, if you have enough weight built up on that side of the bow from those accessories, it's a good idea to balance it out with weight rather than just force the bow to tilt back to level.
Fai enough, I see the side weight issue as valid. Since it’s my first archery season,I’ll have to try it out after bow season this year.
Thanks for the information, Nate. I’ve been considering a back bar but haven’t made the commitment yet. 👍🏼
Probably don't need the stabilizers at all. People just need to work on their form more.
You clearly haven't been shooting long
Does it matter which side the back bar is on?
Traditionally, it's on the side opposite the quiver, rest, and sight. They add the most counter weight to that side.
wouldn't you not need a back bar if you didn't use a front bar? My Mathew's Triax is pretty balanced without either one.
All depends on the weight of that sight/rest/quiver. A back back is not just for front weight but more so for side weight. My front bar is there to help with noise as well as balance. My back bar is there for just balance. I've actually seen guys run just a back bar to compensate for a long, heavy single pin like a competition sight.
Does the trinity dig into your hand after your shot
Yes! I removed the arrow cage and it resolved the issue.
@@averagejackarchery yea it got better for me when i removed it but still gets me only way for me to prevent it is by gripping my bow tighter unfortunately
For hunting no target yes
I shoot a Mathews.... Dick lol, kidding. Great video and thanks for the info! Keep up the hard work.
I don't hunt. So don't have a quiver. Shoot with a back bar. Never shot without it so don't know what its like to shoot an unbalanced bow.
You ever shot a deer?
In the wilderness?
Funny to see people running multiple short bars... One long bar is better than five short bars...
No.
Stabilizers can be a crutch and bad for a lot of people also, in my opinion. That's why you see all these minute men archers buying a bow, then turning around in days or weeks and selling it cause they can't shoot it. Kind of like 'a crossbow crutch', know what I am saying? They don't take the time to learn HOW to shoot their bow effectively, frankly because they can't shoot all that well. They use the stabilizers to compensate for skill. Pro's use the stabilizers for increase in consistency of results or 'forgiveness'. Just my stupid thoughts...lol
I made a +$100 purchase made on a review you made 6 months ago because I trusted your opinion and now here you are pushing a competition product. What gives? Am I the AH or are you?
I had never reviewed stabilizers prior to this video. Also, I like A LOT of different bow, arrow, stabilizer, and sight manufacturers. As do many folks who work in a good shop! It would be silly to just say one "is the only way".