Rob Allen | Carbon vs Aluminum Barrel Behavior
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- Опубліковано 10 кві 2019
- Watch the difference in behavior between a Carbon barrel and an Aluminium one. Both set up as Tuna guns, with twin 16mm bands and a 7,5mm spear. The carbon tube is much lighter than the aluminium, about 1/3rd. This means that the gun will be too light. Because of this we we add a lead slug inside the muzzle to help with the mass. The fact this extra mass is all up at the front end of the gun, basically in the muzzle, it helps prevent the muzzle from lifting when shot. All the recoil is now directed straight back. This prevents the muzzle from hitting the spear as it leaves. If the spear is nudged a little, as with the aluminium barrel, it will make the spear wobble and slow down quicker.
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Muy interesante. Gracias.
Thank you Rob Allen this has been insightful!
More videos like this please 👍🏻
Was the AL barrel gun hitting low on target (assuming same aim point)?
What is the length of the guns in example ? also would Aluminium shoot low on a 140 Tuna Compared to a 140 Carbon at say 7 mtrs from handle to target ?
Its a wow thank you for this you are my idol👏👏👏
👍👍
hmmm not much it seems... but what about the recoil difference between a normal rail gun and a roller gun???
Please do 1 of these with rollers. Btw i'm in love with the new 2019 carbon roller design. It's F*cking gorgeous!
Will do
@@roballenspearfishing1248 i just got bummed out. Ordered a carbon roller, only to learn that the one i wanted is only for the australian market. So i just ordered a wahoo instead. It's nice, but not as nice...
:-(
I do not think that in this particular case the "jumping muzzle" for the alu spear gun has much to do with weight distribution.
The alu stock is less rigid than the carbon one.
When under tension, the alu stock is bent. When released, the muzzle is jumping, first down and then up - in the slow mo it is obvious.
The carbon stock is more rigid and does not bend as mush under same tension; therefore it jumps less.
It is possible the different barrel flex plays a small part but, I'm positive the weight has the majority of the effect. It will be easy to compare, one day we will do the same test but with no lead in the carbon barrel.
its more about how you hold the handle and how much force on the grip, nothing to do with the barrel
Valid point and I agree. In this case though, it was held tight, straight arm, same shooter. We did not know this was happening until we viewed multiple views in slow mo, all with the same results.
@@roballenspearfishing1248 Could you please explain why it? I don't understand it.
@@petrpetrov1265 Hi Petr, Sorry I should have been more descriptive. I have changed the description below the video to explain in better detail.
The recoil on the carbon was quite a bit more than on the aluminum. This might be a contributing factor no? With the aluminum gun, the muzzle did not move back like the carbon did, so the energy may not have had anywhere else to go but up. For this to be definitive (at least for me) I'd have to see footage where the muzzles both do not move, or at least move in the same distance as each other.
@@RobAllenSpearfishingtengo un roler 90 colo puedo Acer para que flote cuando disparo? Que material se le puede meter?
I live in portugal and dont know how to get it, should I get it online or are there any shops with RA guns in Europe
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Hey Rob, what length were the spearguns tested ? Did you compare to shorter guns ? Do they react the same ? What effects does this have on accuracy?
This was done a long time back, not 100% sure but do think they were 1300.
I also see this bending on aluminum, when a rubber a new.
Hi Rob, as alternative to ordering a new complete gun, I am considering to order a barrel of different length from my current one (together with bands/spear) to be able to use my current muzzle and handle to effectively have 2 guns for different uses. Do the barrels come with holes or dlilling will be required? Also, are there plugs already in place to prevent water from entering, or should I order these separately?
Barrels will be plugged and can be drilled no problem, just ask for it to be pre-drilled.
@@roballen1578 thanks
Thanks for this video. How much does the head ballast weigh on a 90 cm rifle? (I'm currently transforming an aluminum Tuna with a carbon tube) Thanks for help.
The 90 is a bit short so buoyancy is limited. We do not put weight in the 90cm carbon barrels.
Thanks !@@RobAllenSpearfishing
👍
If the same 2 guns were converted to a roller would there be a difference between them?
There is much less recoil with rollers and, no lead added into a carbon roller so, very unlikely to be any different.
@@roballen1578 awesome. thanks for such a quick response.
Looks like the bracing on the carbon fiber gun was far softer than the aluminum. The aluminum stopped moving back far sooner than the carbon fiber. This could have caused the upward lift.
I should have read the description, correct weighting in the front of the gun greatly improves recoil.
I have Rob Allen, 130 aluminum. Unfortunately, I lost a lot of fish due to not hitting the target accurately 😥
There can be many reasons for this. To name a few, incorrect rubber length, might be too strong or, not strong enough. Incorrect shooting line placement. Bent spear or, incorrect spear for that set up. Sticky barb, not closing fully. How you hold the gun when shooting. As you can see, many possibilities. Another is water temperature. Cold water will reduce the performance of the rubber.
@@roballen1578
Thank you Rob Allen for the clarification. I will try to change the rubber and try, but the rest of the possibilities may be good .. I will try and tell you later .. I repeat my thanks to you ..
But I have a question how much is the correct length for a rifle length of 130 is normal
Which is the % of the rubber?thanks
We fit 370% to 380% stretch.
why wouldn't you put some sort of marker on the gun at the point of the line, kind of like the piece of tape, you could even do that in post, that way we could visualize the actual distance the lighter gun recoils (even add lines with angles to show more precise measurements, really not that complicated)
on the actual topic of comparing apples and oranges, i mean alu v. carbon tubes,
obviously the carbon tube will be lighter in the muzzle region, therefore creating more 'kick-back' [ie recoil]
but that literally has nothing to do with spearfishing (the majority of the recoil does not occur until the spear end has left the gun muzzle, and as I hope you know, there's no follow up shot in spearfishing, not unless you have bad aim and good breath hold),
who cares how bad the gun 'kicks' after the spear has left it?
[so long as it's not bucking the tube on it's way out]
Hi RR. First off, our business is building spearguns, not being videographers, sorry for the poor quality.
I think you have missed the point or, did not look at the footage close enough, I will explain.
This was initially filmed just for us to see what the difference is. We always advocated it is, how do we prove this?
In the water this happens way to fast for us to see so we needed to slow it down and view later. Once slowed down it is clear to us that there is a difference. Once seen, I thought this would be a good one to share.
As you can see in the slowed down footage, there are clear markers showing the difference, I do not see what we could add to make it better.
In terms of recoil, if you look closely at the slow speed, you will see that the spear is still in the muzzle while it is kicking up. The recoil of a speargun is a big factor. Why would the tail of the spear change direction (be knocked upwards) if this were not the case?
@@roballen1578 hey thanks for the reply, was not trying to be rude, it would have been a pretty simple addition to the video editing. still informative though.
I'm a big fan of your product line, and appreciate all the work you guys put into your R&D,
still pretty new to the sport, which i'm sure was obvious by my last comment.
Can't quite afford to own one of fancy new guns yet but one day!
Thanks again for taking the time to better explain that for me!
Some explanation would've been nice - looks like an interesting point was being made - almost....
The difference is how you handle the gun. The lighter it is, the more it recedes... I use both (120/140), I haven't this sensation.
It looks to me like this difference could be to grip/bracing. Could you set these up with a weighted clamp system so that it will connect to both grips exactly the same (weighted instead of rigid so that it will mimic the movement of a person's arm during the shot)?
Hi Zpearo We shot this scenario many times. We used the same spear, same rubber, same diver, just different barrels. The shooter held the handle tight with a straight and stiff arm each time, getting the same result. We could not see the results until we played it back in slow mo.
aluminium users must aim approx. 1cm down
There will be a slight variable at the point of aim. More important is the spear speed. With the aluminum causing a slight spear wobble will slow it down more so than the carbon.